There's no perfect route when you're going from one part of Middle Earth to the other. The same problem came up in "The Hobbit." When Bilbo and the dwarves asked if there was any path that avoided a march through Mirkwood, Gandalf gave them two other options and promptly dismissed them both. Going north around Mirkwood would have taken them through lands that were "stiff" with goblins and trolls. Going south would take them through territory dominated by Dol Guldur. There were "safer" routes, but no perfectly safe routes unless you were going from Bag End to the Green Dragon for a pint.

The route they took left the most options open to them and delayed making any key decisions till late as possible. Any other route would have trapped them in a single option apart from maybe a boat where you could make land early in West Dunland or Gondor but that would have been a long walk through populous lands.

The High Pass seems to me the wisest route. But disputing the wisdom of Gandalf and Elrond is probably a bad idea.

@rofald

Жыл бұрын

I always figured the High Pass was snowed in during the winter and Elrond's scouts could only use it because they were Elves who used their magic feet to walk on snow like it was ground (as Legolas did at the Redhorn).

Had Pippin not been in the fellowship, they would have crossed Moria unnoticed and Gandalf's plan would have been perfect.

@timonsolus

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah. But Faramir would have died later, burned to death by his own father.

@MasterRoshi8974

2 жыл бұрын

It wasnt the Will of Eru

@phoule76

2 жыл бұрын

but Gandalf wouldn't have died and been reborn more powerful

@al424242

2 жыл бұрын

Or would it? Without Pippin to recklessly look in to the Palantir, sauron wouldn't have rushed the invasion of Gondor and Aragorn wouldn't have made it to the black gate in time as a decoy.

@MasterRoshi8974

2 жыл бұрын

@@al424242 great point

I always though the best route would have been to take the same path Bilbo took in the Hobbit to Smaug's mountain, then sail down the river to the sea of Rhun. From there they could have aproached Mordor from the East. True this would have involved traveling through a heck of a lot of territory allied with Sauron, but the biggest obstacle in the books was Mordor's defences. Mordor's eastern border was the only undefended one, so this hurdle would have been avoided. Also Aragorn mentioned travelling through Rhun, so it was possible for westerners to do so. This was not an area Sauron was expecting anyone to enter from, so the fellowship would have had the element of surprise, especially if a couple of decoy groups posing as the fellowship were to travel along some of the alternative routes.

Good video, but I think it's more interesting how Gandalf planned to enter Mordor. Gandalf is shocked and afraid when he hears about Minas Morgul, but I have always wondered if there was an alternative.

@tominiowa2513

2 жыл бұрын

Shelob likely would have decided that there were less risky meals to try to catch than a Wizard at full* power with a large elven sword and blazing staff if Gandalf took them through Cirith Ungol. *As full as the Istari nerfing allowed.

@verylostdoommarauder

Жыл бұрын

Then there's getting into Mount Doom and convincing Frodo to throw in the ring.

@thylange

Жыл бұрын

@@verylostdoommarauder Gandalf and Elrond already knew that it is impossible for anyone to destroy the ring of their own free will. It's always been "trust the lord" and attempt to do the right thing.

@David_Fellner

Жыл бұрын

I've wondered about that too, and I think Gandalf did as well. He knew where they had to take the Ring and that they couldn't wait any longer, and just hoped they could figure out a safe path along the way. The closest real-world situation I can think of is when your drug dealer tells you _when_ he'll meet you, but can't seem to figure out _where_ he'll be until the last goddamn minute, so you just drive toward the general part of town he's usually in and hope he gives you clear directions when the time comes.

@maxscherzer9521

Жыл бұрын

@@tominiowa2513 Gandalf aside, Shelob is not going to attack a party of eight, including two men of Numenor, an Elf, and a Dwarf. Her style was picking off lone orcs.

How high was that high pass? Being that if you talk about temperature, latitude matters, but altitude does as also. (about 6 degrees Celsius per 1 kilometer of height, that's why there are snowcapped mountains on the equator... )

Some other considerations (my opinion, of course) as well. The path not taken - had the Fellowship not taken the path that they did some critical and not so critical yet important things would not have occurred. The Balrog would not have been destroyed, thus removing it as a powerful foe that might have been free to attack Loren or other parts of the west; Gandalf would not have 'died' and been 'reborn The White', thus might have been less effective in influencing the men of Gondor at a critical point in the assault on Minus Tirith; Rohan would not have been freed of the influences of Saruman and his lackies, thus been in a position to ride to the aid of Gondor - this would have, most likely, removed Eowyn's contribution in the war by killing the Witch King ; Merry and Pippen, most likely, would not have been captured in the manner that they had been and had brought their considerably important input to Treebeard or helping to induce the Ent's sacking Isengard, thus further eliminating Saruman as a threat to Gondor and the West; since the Rohan part of the war was avoided or not induced, the chance of Aragon traveling through the White Mountains to the Stone of Erech, thus gaining the Army of the Dead; (good or bad) Boromir's death might have not happened, or came in another form, preventing the remains of his horn reaching his father and further pushing Denethor over the edge; and with Boromir's actions before his death, the party might not have separated, allowing Frodo and Sam to take their journey, or bringing Smeagol's very large part into play at the very end. And I'm sure there are other parts that wouldn't have taken place or been altered, thus so would the eventual outcome have been altered or unfulfilled. Personally, I think they could have gone by sea, probably as far south as the horn west of Gondor before running into Corsairs, finishing the land journey through Gondor proper, though, as previously stated, the long-odds were that the route they took was the route they were 'meant to take'. Their's a scene between Gandalf and Frodo where he avoids outright voicing his opinion that 'higher powers' were at work and some things were meant to happen, which, I believe he said, was a comforting thought.

@MrEmiosk

2 жыл бұрын

The balrog was not under Souron. The balrog was its own evil, a remnant buried long in the past of the first age where it was more an equal if not plain superior in brute force. Souron is more like the wizards, if a bit out of their league. Let's not forget Souron's power was his charm and craftmanship to lure decieve and manipulate, not as he is shown in the movies as a towering giant with magic super strength, which he neither was or had. Only the echo of Morgoth's evil on his soul allowed him to take that god's place and control his lesser creations.

@yourseatatthetable

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrEmiosk True, he was his own evil, but it was implied by Gandalf that the Balrog still could have been manipulated by Sauron or, simply would have followed his own nature and acted, which would have caused more potential chaos and problems. His elimination was beneficial in the long run.

@eriksgasins9086

2 жыл бұрын

very good point.

@adamantu

2 жыл бұрын

@@yourseatatthetable Gandalf also supported Thorins Quest to regain Erebor using the same reasoning concerning Smaug

@yourseatatthetable

2 жыл бұрын

@@adamantu Agreed. Imagine how bad things could have been had either the Balog or Smaug (or both) had survived and struck out against the West while Sauron's main attack landed on Gondor.

Cheers, happy new year

As a kid I played a lot of the 1988 video game War in Middle Earth, in which you could choose whatever path you wanted. I loved that. I failed a lot. I am currently running an RPG group for "The One Ring". I would like to explore this concept with them at some point.

Ocean Path would've had four important advantages. First - it would've mislead the bad guys. They would've been thinking that the plan was to hide the ring at the havens. Misdirection can be advantageous. Second - it would've created new angles for entry into Mordor. There's passable terrain far to the south. Third - it would've been relatively fast. Fourth - it would've opened up a 'plan B' of simply dropping the ring into the ocean. A bad result - perhaps - but was it as bad as something going terribly wrong and having the ring recovered? Given these - I have to assume that the ocean route was extremely dangerous. I should say it wouldn't have been wise to remove all of the major players from the war. Aragorn and Boromir - for example - certainly should not be on that boat. My plan - Aragorn and Boromir through the high pass with Legolas and Gimli. Most of them continue South through to Lorien to meet with Galadriel, then on to Minas Tirith. Aragorn immediately continues south with reinforcements to meet with the hobbits when they land. Gandalf out to Bree with the hobbits, then alone through the gap of Rohan to draw Sarumans interest. Hopefully he can still help stir Theoden. Glorfindel all the way to the Havens, then on the boat with the Hobbits as they attempt to land in the south of Gondor.

@timonsolus

2 жыл бұрын

Dropping the Ring in the Sea would have ensured Sauron’s eventual victory. The Dark Lord’s armies were already almost strong enough to take Minas Tirith. Without Minas Tirith, Gondor and Rohan would be doomed. The actual Battle of the Pelannor Fields happened prematurely, before Sauron’s forces were fully prepared. Sauron acted in haste because he was afraid of the Ring reaching Gondor and either Denethor or Aragorn using it against him.

@illinest

2 жыл бұрын

@@timonsolus I don't dispute any of it. I'm just saying that there's an immediate and explosive failure that would've happened if Sauron recovered the ring, set against a protracted failure that may have allowed many (of the elves at least) to flee across the sea. Since elves were instrumental in planning the fellowship I believe the Elves would have been at least a little bit pragmatic about distinguishing between the failures.

@Crafty_Spirit

2 жыл бұрын

I like how you split up the fellowship's members, it's a fun thought.

@tominiowa2513

2 жыл бұрын

I see a wild card in the ocean route - what happens when Ulmo gets wind of the journey? Does he assist as would be his wont, or stay neutral as Manwë would want? Or just tell Ossë to (literally) stay calm?

@illinest

2 жыл бұрын

@@tominiowa2513 absolutely.

It should be noted that if the fellowship had not gone through Moria, Gandalf wouldn't have killed the Balrog and the dwarves wouldn't been able to retake it. So kind of a win in the long run.

There actually IS a problem with the High Pass that Bilbo took. 1.) Goblins might be back on it. 2.) In the Hobbit, Bilbo was asking if they could go around Mirkwood and Gandalf said they'd have to go 100-200 miles north and too near goblin territory or about 200-400 miles south and go too near Dol Guldor. Even though Sauron himself was driven from Dol Guldor by the time of Fellowship of the Ring, he still had agents there, as was evident from the Galadriel's comments. So they'd not really be saving on distance and also would risk getting too near Dol Guldor.

Seems like I recall reading that Sauron expected a ring bearer to use either the High Pass route to Anduin then south or to head back west to Cirdan and then take the sea route to Gondor. Those routes would have seen the spy network increased so secrecy was best maintained by the way they went.

@Akm72

Жыл бұрын

I take it that Sauron expected the ring bearer to head to Minas Tirith?

You miss one of the key problems with any route that takes them through Gondor... Denethor. Denethor would have almost certainly tried to take the Ring by force when he discovered it in his land. Boromir urges that the Ring go to Minas Tirith...both for "good" but also for nefarious reasons. Already the Ring was working on him, and (as the movies speculated) Denethor. The Company would have been at great peril going through Gondor.

Good job! I'm a big fan of your channel! Keep up the good work sir

"Gandalf's main concern is time." Yes, after letting Bilbo keep the Ring for sixty years, then taking seventeen years to figure out what it was (spending most of that period on a fruitless search for Gollum), then telling Frodo to "take your time" when leaving Hobbiton, then dawdling at Rivendell for two months after the Council of Elrond. He's that person who waits until the last minute before setting off, then rushes like a madman to get onto the bus as it departs. If Gandalf was really concerned about time, he would have whisked Frodo and the Ring off to Rivendell at his first suspicion. But that would make for a less interesting story.

@phoule76

2 жыл бұрын

it's the pipeweed

@explodingheadtrick2350

Жыл бұрын

@@phoule76 Old Toby is The 🎇. Yea, “The ring must be destroyed!(whistles for eagles)whew... now where’s that old Toby...” doesn’t quite have the same impact the existing story has.

@kazikmajster5650

Жыл бұрын

The only explanation that comes to my mind for now is that Gandalf still was still unsure whether Gollum's ring was the One. Also, they might not have been aware of Sauron's immediate threat, thinking years would pass before he assailed Minas Tirith.

@jamesgravil9162

Жыл бұрын

@@kazikmajster5650 Even if Gandalf wasn't sure that Gollum's Ring was the One, he knew for certain that it was one of the Great Rings, which he states are "dangerous for mortals." If nothing else, it was extremely irresponsible of Gandalf to let his friend hang onto such a powerful magical artifact, akin to an adult letting a child look after a gun. As for Sauron not being an "immediate threat", the Dark Lord had re-established himself in Mordor and was spreading his influence far and wide. Considering Gandalf and Saruman had been sent to Middle-Earth _for the specific purpose of stopping Sauron,_ you'd think they would have upped their game at this point! Instead, they sit on their hands until the Doomsday Clock is at 11.59.

@kazikmajster5650

Жыл бұрын

@@jamesgravil9162 with things the author has not left clear, if one wants to prove this or that, he will eventually find arguments to back his theory.

Fantastic video. Have always wondered - while looking at the map - the implications of other paths suggested. Great stuff 🧝‍♂️

Great video. Keep it up 🔥

The fellowship should have used a Premier Inn instead of sleeping on the rocks or mountainside. I heard the one at the fords of Isen has a five stars rating. Or so says Saruman of Many colours and several uruk-hai reviews.

Great video!! And happy new year mate

Finally made it through all of your videos. Great channel. I saw someone once say that besides the Fellowship, Rivendell should have spammed out groups with Hobbits to travel all over the place (Gladden Fields, Erebor, Mirkwood, the Gap of Rohan, Gondor by Sea, Lindon) to confuse Sauron and Saruman, which I thought was hilarious.

@piotrgarlicki1330

2 жыл бұрын

Elrond: Hey, I have got a brilliant idea! Let's send all hobbits on these routes and pretty much fckin kill them! Gandalf: As much as I wouldn't want to see more Tooks that is a horrible idea, but a fcking hilarious one (chuckles)

Interesting video. Thanks

another amazing video bro, thanks always wonder this, thanks and keep up the good interesting lore :D

In addition to all these routes mentioned in the video, one thing that must be going through the minds of many subscribers: the eagles. Well, we already have several satisfactory answers against using this "mechanism". But one thing that i was thinking is that Sauron could (through telekinesis) control the weather and stop or bring down eagles on the way: "The skirts of the storm were lifting, ragged and wet, and the main battle had passed to spread its great wings over the Emyn Muil, upon which the dark thought of Sauron brooded for a while. Thence it turned, smiting the Vale of Anduin with hail and lightning, and casting its shadow upon Minas Tirith with threat of war. Then, lowering in the mountains, and gathering its great spires, it rolled on slowly over Gondor and the skirts of Rohan, until far away the Riders on the plain saw its black towers moving behind the sun, as they rode into the West." That's not counting the Nazgûl with their winged mounts (the fellbeasts). And the fact that Sauron (apparently) can control the winds too. In Akallabêth there is an east wind that helped the invasion fleet of Numenor: "Darkness fell upon the land, and the sea was still, while the world waited for what should betide. Slowly the fleets passed out of the sight of the watchers in the havens, and their lights faded, and night took them; and in the morning they were gone. For a wind arose in the east and it wafted them away; and they broke the Ban of the Valar, and sailed into forbidden seas, going up with war against the Deathless, to wrest from them everlasting life within the Circles of the World."

@fgutz1970

2 жыл бұрын

There is something people always seem to forget when it comes to the Ring being flown to Mordor: Gandalf had a limited gift of foresight. Call it hunches or intuition or whatever, but he seemed to know that certain things had to happen to end the threat. An example of this is his support of Merry and Pippin joining the Fellowship, without whom the Ents likely would not have attacked Isengard. It would have been all well and good to take the Eagle Express to Mordor and destroy the Ring, but it would have left Saruman to at least attempt to take Sauron's place.

@rafaelgustavo7786

2 жыл бұрын

@@fgutz1970 But even that ability to "predict future events" you cited was hampered by Sauron by a use of his shadow power (like a screen spell in D&D) to prevent use by Elrond and Gandalf: "I can foresee very little of your road; and how your task is to be achieved I do not know. The Shadow has crept now to the feet of the Mountains, and draws nigh even to the borders of the Greyflood; and under the Shadow all is dark to me. You will meet many foes, some open, and some disguised; and you may find friends upon your way when you least look for it. I will send out messages, such as I can contrive, to those whom I know in the wide world; but so perilous are the lands now become that some may well misscarry, or come no quicker than you yourself."

@TheHacknor

2 жыл бұрын

Even going by just the movies, the moment they entered Mordor the Eye of Sauron would have put them in a trance and killed them from the fall

Amazing video really relevant iv often wondered this

This is a cool thing that the HOI 4 Lord of the Rings mod uses to make it more random where the ring is so that you have to strategize how to get it (or help the fellowship out when they come by). Of course, you can also get screwed over when Gandalf never gets separated from the party and you can't go down your focus tree as Rohan since Gandalf needs to visit so that you can decide to let him in or not. Yeah, that campaign was a bust...pincer attacked by Isengard and Mordor.

The gap of Rohan was the original plan, but they had to go a different way when they became certain that Saruman was tracking their location.

A huge fan of you really..... keep it up

I love you analysis, keep it up.

Great Video

All the possible paths had drawbacks so there wasn't an obvious choice. They had to choose one and went with going through the Misty Mountains farther south. Fortunately, everything worked out in the long run.

It still begs the question of what the plans were after reaching Lorien, Boromir would have insisted on staying on the river all the way to Gondor. Would they have still gone to Minas Morgul? I don't believe Gandalf would go the long way round because it would have taken too long

@LSeverusPertinax

2 жыл бұрын

The plain truth is that they HAD no Plan. They had no Plan after reaching Lorien. They had no Plan after reaching Minas Tirith. Apparently, they were following the principle of- "We follow no Plan; that way, we don't get stuck with a Plan that didn't work!" I would have sooner sent an SAS team along with them, with a good Officer in charge; and STILL would not have given them good odds!

You had me at 'Darth Gandalf'

All pretty solid reasoning dude. The LOTRO clips throughout made me pretty nostalgic as well.

Great video. I do wish you had more subs, since there are inferior (fight me 😁) LOTR lore channels out there with many more subs. Hopefully your time will come soon to reach a bigger audience with your videos, which are well researched and often quite unique.

Wow!

Great video overall, though I do have one minor quibble. At 6:00 you mention that "the last route never gets mentioned in the story", when actually it IS mentioned, though briefly. As the Fellowship leaves Rivendell, the following passage occurs: "At the Ford of Bruinen they left the Road and turning southwards went on by narrow paths among the folded lands. Their purpose was to hold this course west of the Mountains for many miles and days. The country was much rougher and more barren than in the green vale of the Great River of Wilderland on the other side of the range, and their going would be slow; but they hoped in this way to escape the notice of unfriendly eyes." (The Fellowship of the Ring, Book II, Chapter 3 "The Ring Goes South"). This specifically explains in the narrative that the Fellowship opted to go on the western side of the Misty Mountains because it was less expected, and thus less likely to be closely watched, than the eastern side. That said, you correctly mentioned the route itself and the reason for rejecting it, and did a brilliant job explaining the various options and the reasons they weren't chosen, including one that had never occurred to me (traveling down the coast by ship).

While the eagles couldn't have taken them to Mordor, what about them just tanking the fellowship over the mountains from where they'd further travel by foot? Even if they would have been flying a day (which sounds a lot more than I think would have been realistic) I don't think that Sauron or Saruman or the Nazgûl would have noticed them.

Why did Gandalf wait so many years before departing then? Why had he not urged Frodo to hasten? They could have taken the long path through Drúwaith Iaur, had they departed but a year earlier! The only explanation that comes to my mind, for now, is that Gandalf was still unsure whether Gollum's ring was the One. Also, they might not have been aware of Sauron's immediate threat, thinking years would pass before he assailed Minas Tirith.

For a video you could speculate what the map would look like at FA 1000, what new kingdoms the Northmen would found in Rhovanion, who would take over elf and dwarf lands as those races declined, which directions Rohan would expand in.

@tominiowa2513

2 жыл бұрын

Fourth Age is generally abbreviated *Fo.A.* to distinguish it from First Age *F.A.*

@jessesturgeon5327

2 жыл бұрын

​@@tominiowa2513 Thank you

New video suggestion - “Why didn’t the Peoples of Middle Earth advance their technology? I feel like this might be an interesting idea to explore, considering that the peoples had existed for over 10,000 years, with much of that time spent essentially in our real-word equivalent to the Middle Ages, and only by the last years of the Third Age were things like gun powder being invented.

@benharder7816

2 жыл бұрын

The collapse of Numenor, paired with a great plague, a bad winter + famine, and roaming (wainriders?) Led to losing technological advancements (Numenorean engineering being the prime example) and sent the world into a spiraling and fragmented society where information could not be shared and the population itself severely cut down.

This is one of those amusing and obvious things, from a medieval perspective. I read the other day how a medieval traveller would take a month to journey from one part of Denmark, to Sweden. That same journey would take 5 days by sea and river. This was normal all over Europe. In England, within a days walk, you'd be connected to a nationwide River ferry system that could transport you, and all your goods, all over the country. It has to be teeming with pirates, for the elves and numenoreans to fear sailing south along the coast and harvest the advantage of boats. It can not be underestimated how so much of the plot right here hinges on your average reader not knowing little about medieval modes of transport. Boat and ferry is king, especially when it's part of your identity. Odin be praised. Some places have seasonal monsoon that would effect one's ability to sail certain routes, like the African-Indian trade route. Another are a lot of the rivers in Africa that dry up certain parts of the year. However. I'm not a Tolkien expert so I don't know what middle earth's climate is like. My 2 cents. Skål.

@densandwitch1251

10 ай бұрын

Well, as adressed in the video that there is basically wild storms and other powers that can just destory a ship instantly, though your insight was extremely interesting.

I thought everything that happened to the Fellowship and during the War of the Ring happened exactly as it needed to as directed by Ilúvatar

I think if Gandalf would’ve asked Radagast to be more involved, it could’ve helped a lot. I mean the true Radagast from the books not the joke portrayed in the films.

Unrelared question: Could men have gone to Valinor via the Helcaraxë in the 1st age?

@dannenbergdavid9133

2 жыл бұрын

Don’t see why not but doubt the Valar would’ve let them in

@stefandebeer9375

2 жыл бұрын

@@dannenbergdavid9133 Just wondering, if the Noldor elves went to Beleriend via the Helcarxë, couldn't men have crossed to Valinor. I know when the Númenorians sailed thru the enchanted isles and stepped on land they died. The Valar didn't want the Noldor to leave Valinor, but some still left via the Helcarxë, so I'm not sure if the Valar wouldn't have been able to stop men from crossing over unless men ran into the Valar on Valinor.🤷🏻‍♂️

@Crafty_Spirit

2 жыл бұрын

Hey, that's a good question 👌🏼

@DamonNomad82

2 жыл бұрын

Theoretically, yes. However, IIRC, a very high percentage of the Noldor who tried to cross the Helcaraxë were killed by the conditions there, which would have been comparable to trying to walk from Siberia to northern Canada across the Arctic by way of the North Pole in the winter. So the odds of Men, who would be less physically tough than the Noldor, using that route to successfully get to Valinor would have been minimal. Even if they had crossed it successfully, they would have found themselves in an ethereal realm ruled by unimaginably powerful beings who would NOT be happy they were there. Imagine getting all that way, just to have the Valar give you the unpalatable choice of either being stepped on like a bug or having to turn around and go right back across the most miserable and dangerous conditions in Arda that you had just endured to get there!

@Crafty_Spirit

2 жыл бұрын

@@DamonNomad82 You see, humans have travelled from Siberia to Canada, without the help of deities or elves. And I think you exaggerate the Valar's attitude towards Men arriving at Valinor. The chosen one after all was half mannish. Sure, they would be baffled and somewhat displeased, but their manners are usually quite civilised.

Should have taken the 15 to the 8 to the 10, straight shot.

The high pass is an inviting trap. In hindsight, passing that close to Dol Guldur is suicide. If you thought Amon Hen was bad, try a repeat of Isildur's misadventure.

Does it really matter? At no time are we told how the Fellowship plans to reach Mt Doom once they cross into Mordor. There's still an army of Orcs between the Black Gate and the mountain itself, far outnumbering the 9 Companions. It was just by circumstances that Aragorn and the forces of Gondor and Rohan were able to pull the Orcs away. Would have been easier to just take some Eagles right there, especially since they showed up at the Black Gate anyways.

Why not a hybrid route, take the boats and land on Andrast or Anfalas.

You didn't talk about the eagles. Great video

@tominiowa2513

2 жыл бұрын

The subject of why the Great Eagles were not used has been done a few dozen times.

Heard about "fly you fools theory"?

wHy dIdNt tHey flY thErE oN tHe eAglEs?

None of these options would've mattered if Sauron just posted guards outside Mount Doom

@ThomasstevenSlater

2 жыл бұрын

i imagine he did have guards there but he sent them to the black gate too. Sauron: Send everyone to the black gate The nerdiest ringwraith: so we reduce all garrisons to a skeletons crew, many being actual skeletons Sauron: I said everybody T.N.R.: Then how we stop slave uprisings and stop shelob from eating everything Sauron: Everybody!!!! T.N.R.: of course, of course As the ring melts the ringwraith gives one last chuckle as it dissolves to nothing.

"Fly, you fools..."

I mean to be fair I think going through sea would have been safer than running into a balrog in moria

Shoulda roped together some weir worms and dug their way to mordor in a jiffy, basically the eagles of the underground. No one but the nameless things woulda seen that one coming, they'd just spring outta holes in the ground...Gimlis fave

They should have taken a hot air balloon. Around the world in 80 days...so to Mordor in like 8? They had the technology, if Gandalf counts as technology.

How about simply asking Thorndor to fly Gandalf and Frodo to Mount Doom? This approach would virtually guarantee that Sauron would not be able to stop the Fellowship and ensure that Ring's destruction. The book would be a lot shorter though :))

@DarthGandalfYT

2 жыл бұрын

Sauron's airforce (aka, the Nazgul) would spot the Eagles coming from miles away, and as intelligent creatures, the Eagles would not be immune to the corruption of the One Ring.

@kirillrivkin4842

2 жыл бұрын

@@DarthGandalfYT As far as I know, there are no instances of Nazgul patrolling skies over Mordor. They usually flew out on a specific assignments. Plus, Sauron would not have a reason to protect Mount Doom, much less airspace over it. I am not even sure if Nazgul could defeat or catch Gwaihir and his Great Eagles, although this conclusion is speculative. Gwaihir is possibly an immortal being, first mentioned in Silmarillion. He fought against Morgoth in the War of Wrath. He and Thorondor are closely connected to Manwe, hate anything connected to Sauron and darkness and would probably be the least likely creatures to be seduced by the Ring. If Frodo, Sam, Bilbo, Aragorn, Gandalf, Galadriel and others resisted it, it seems that it would offer very little to a Maia in an Eagle form.

@Goratrix66

2 жыл бұрын

@@DarthGandalfYT The eagles did it before, when picked up Blibo and The Ring! Even brought him and his companions to their nest :) Well maybe they are just banned by Illuvatar/Manwe/Tolkien to help that much. I have another example: When Fingolfin dueled with Morgoth, Thorondor saved his dead body from desecrating by Morgoth, while wounding his face. Probably if he brought with him all his kind they would been able to ambush and kill the heavily wounded Morgoth for good. But he didnt maybe because the same reason?

@stevemcgroob4446

Жыл бұрын

I would say that the Eagles weren't present during the council at Rivendell and may not have wanted to involve themselves with the war of the ring for some reason or another. But I also believe there's a fault in assuming that the Nazgul are the only forces Sauron has at his disposal to deal with approaches from the sky, and even if he doesn't then the Eagles would still have to land at least near Mt. Doom where Sauron could have deduced where they would be going and post guards there. There's also the Eagles' capabilities to consider. It's easy to assume that the Eagles could just fly all the way to Mordor in one go but as living beings, I believe they would have to make period stops along the way to rest, especially when carrying passengers. Where they can be spotted along the way and attacked by Nazgul or others.

Why couldn’t they take the ring to Valinor?

@DarthGandalfYT

2 жыл бұрын

Two reasons - a) As long as the One Ring exists, so does Sauron (provided someone else doesn't master it) and b) It's speculated at the Council of Elrond that the Valar would not allow the One Ring to enter Valinor.

@MartinLutherJim

2 жыл бұрын

@@DarthGandalfYT even if it was lost in the sea on the way west, would it not at least be unretrievavble? I know it ruins the story if that happened and thanks for the reply anyway I’m just curious

@DarthGandalfYT

2 жыл бұрын

@@MartinLutherJim It likely wouldn't be retrievable, but Sauron doesn't need the One Ring to win. If the Free Peoples don't destroy the One Ring, Sauron eventually overruns and kills/enslaves them all so throwing it into the ocean is not an option.

Yup. They could have flown to Mordor.

Thanks for blowing our cover Pippen. smh

"Just hire an eagle, you morons." Gimli's dad was at the Battle of the Five Armies, so, read the above in the voice of Gimli.

@takix2007

2 жыл бұрын

So was Legolas' dad, Frodo's uncle, and... Gandalf himself.

@DavidOfWhitehills

2 жыл бұрын

@@takix2007 Ah, that explains Gandalf's closing remark at the bridge in Khazad Dum: just before he fell into the abyss he remembered what he meant to say at the Council of Elrond: "Fly, you fools ! "

@tominiowa2513

2 жыл бұрын

Manwë would not let the Great Eagles join Uber as contractors.

Follow misty mountains then instead of going trough the gap of rohan. Goo further south and enter west gondor. Resupply in one of those nice friendly towns. Then enter the pass of the dead from erech. With those on your side go east. Got another supply gain in pellargir after you use the deadman to safe those heroes. With the pellargir army go pellanor fields drop pellargir army in minas tirith. Agree with a diversion attak at morannon. And travel to morgulvale and cirith ungol. And let legolas finish of shelob. Drop off the mithrilvest at cirith ungol so that orcs kill eachother. Then take the tower after that and wait for the mordor legions to be lured to the morranon. When plateau of gorgoroth is empty let the rest of the fellowship go back and let frodo and Sam go on the last stretch to mount doom complete. Ps dont take boromir with you . Switch him with elrahir or glorfindel

I suspect the Sea Route was rejected because Tolkien himself was no Sailor. There are the prevailing North-westerlies to consider.... A ship sailing from the North would have taken advantage of them and sailed swiftly. Even if this plan were suspected by the Enemy, intercepting vessels would have had to tack against the wind or row to move North. They would have been very slow and would have been easily out-maneuvered, assuming they were even sighted.

@LSeverusPertinax

2 жыл бұрын

I imagine that if Tolkien had joined the Royal Navy, instead of the Army in 1915, the Book would have been VERY different!

Gandalf had to fight the Balrog and die so he could come back as Gandalf the White. It was fate.

Could the fellowship have taken another path. One word answer - EAGLES 🦅.

@Lucy-yc4bc

Ай бұрын

not stealthy enough

@road3557

Ай бұрын

@@Lucy-yc4bc if you have them coming from all angles, it may have worked. March and army and distract them and send eagles from all angles and one carrying the one ring. Toss it in the fire - pack your bags boys, wars over.

Grey Havens seems to me a better rout. Most sure wouldn't be perfect or even fail, but that would be my choice. If I'm not wrong, Tolkien said somewhere there any deviation from what happened would lead the mission to fail. So the fall of Boromir and the fight against Barog was yet part of the victory. Just to think if they didn't got apart if not Gondor, certainly Rohan would fall to Isengard. And that couldn't happen at all. Without Rohan, Gondor was screwed anyway.

@gillianlovell9578

2 жыл бұрын

*Grey Havens*

@samwrai

2 жыл бұрын

@@gillianlovell9578 thx m8

use a boat you fools. it would took 2 weeks?

""dh" is pronounced "th". Caradhras is pronounced carathas. Sorry but it bugs me every time you say it

@DarthGandalfYT

Жыл бұрын

I'm aware, but I struggle to pronounce "th" due to a lisp.

Caradhras FOUGHT them. Anyway, two words... Eag - les!

i really dont get why the Valar wouldn't just unforge the damn Thing already. Sauron was ultimately their responsibility and is one of their lesser peers. But they let the Children handle it, even their Istari plan ultimately failed. The Valar really are disappointing Holier-than-thou failures so much so that God Himself directly intervenes in the form of Gandalf the White and Smeagol's slip and heck even Bilbo finding the Ring Ps: in the books this was proposed in the Council of Elrond but Elrond himself said the Valar won't have it cuz it was Middlearths problem. FUCKING neet slackers

@LSeverusPertinax

2 жыл бұрын

Add to this the fact the Valar had a good deal to answer for, regarding the Murder of untold Hundreds of Thousands of Innocent Women, Children and Old People in the Destruction of Numenor. I agree Sauron was one of THEIRS; and thus, THEIR responsibility

@tominiowa2513

2 жыл бұрын

Valar as NEETs? Maybe they need some pills from ReLife to be young again? Of course, Eru could have vanished the One Ring and/or Sauron out of existence at any time, but then the Lord Moves in Mysterious Ways.

@tominiowa2513

2 жыл бұрын

@@LSeverusPertinax The Valar did not deal with the invasion of Valinor by Ar-Pharazôn and his Great Armament (the Valar are prohibited from combat with the Children of Ilúvatar), but rather punted the problem upstairs to Eru who handled it directly. Eru is not much different in drowning Númenor than all the times in The Torah when YHWH kills off large numbers of people (including downing all of them but Noah and family in The Great Flood).

@strongsuccessfulweeb1400

2 жыл бұрын

@@tominiowa2513 pretty sure God isnt even needed to destroy the Ring. I bet Aule could

@tominiowa2513

2 жыл бұрын

@@strongsuccessfulweeb1400 Gandalf told Frodo it would take take a smith greater than Sauron (aka Mairon) to undo the One Ring, and of course Mairon was Aulë's apprentice. So certainly Aule. Another possible candidate (were he not in the Halls of Mandos) for One Ring disassembly would be Fëanor.