Thanks for Watching! Check out the Epic Larq PureVis Bottle today! bylarq.com/twobit4

It's cool how you mentioned that the nose tubes would create callouses because in the books they mention that alot of the fremen have callouses or scars where the nose tubes would be. The attention to detail in Dune is insane!

@codename495

2 ай бұрын

Beat me to it but yes!

If designing a still-suit for cooling in the desert don't make it black. Super reflective white makes more sense.

@jessicatymczak5852

2 ай бұрын

But, for efficient radiative cooling black is best

@salguodrolyat2594

2 ай бұрын

Plus maybe it will be more visible to help emergency services locate you if it is reflective white.🤔

@Peoples_Republic_of_Cotati

2 ай бұрын

Color switching to be reflective or heat-emmitive as needed would be best.

@MrMonkeybat

2 ай бұрын

Shade yourself from the sunlight with a solar panel umbrella.

@artor9175

2 ай бұрын

Unless the suit is also a PV collector, to run the Peltier chips.

Adam Savage (of Mythbuster fame) over on tested did a one day build of Cool Suit using a Tiny phase change heat exchanger cooling an old 1975 British fighter pilot tube suit. Shrink it down a bit more (use micro or nano tech) and you could have enough cooling to keep someone cool in the heat of Arrakis. As to how to power it, use strategically placed Piezoelectric material that would generate electricity from movement. I agree that waste collection and recycling is not possible, but that % lost through breathing is totally possible to capture if you pass it over a heat exchange before expelling it. It would be like the moisture collected on an AC on hot humid day.

@katiegreene3960

2 ай бұрын

Sounds cool

@ipp_tutor

2 ай бұрын

@@katiegreene3960 In the books the suit works with an AC system that compresses air and expands and cools it through the Joules-Thompson effect in a larger pouch in the suit's hood. It also extracts ammonia from urine and uses it as a sort of cryogenic fluid. It's super crazy

@highlorddarkstar

2 ай бұрын

@@ipp_tutor hmm… ammonia refrigerators are a thing, so maybe?

@dadbain

2 ай бұрын

@@ipp_tutor That's still science fiction, but God willing anything is possible, even mankind living on Mars or even the Moon.

@Grimmance

2 ай бұрын

They talk about pumps in the heels, you can use tesla turbines attached to a hydraulic or air based system for power as you walk.

Big error with space suits. Space suits have a high albedo outer cloth layer to protect them from unfiltered sunlight but they don't have additional insulation as a vacuum is a great insulator by itself. In space a vacuum you can only loose heat radiatively so even in the shade or interstellar space it take an object a while to reach those "space is cold" temperatures (and anything in bright sunlight can get hot), as an astronaut is constantly producing heat that means even in the shade the engineering problem is keeping them cool. For underwear astronauts first put on a liquid cooling garment with plastic pipes sewn into it though which cooling liquid flows to stop the astronaut baking in their own body heat, this heat dumped into an ice block or endothermic reaction in the backpack of the spacesuit. On larger vessels like the space station perpendicular to the solar panels so they are edge on to the sun are large radiator panels through which coolant flows so they can slowly radiate excess heat through infrared light.

@ralphsexton8531

2 ай бұрын

I was coming down here to say essentially what you have, probably more clearly than I would have managed. Thank you!

The tech in 10,000 years may be a bit more advanced than what you can conceive of at this time. ✌️😎

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

very very true!

@tryhardfpv5351

2 ай бұрын

20k years actually

@maneotis4g63t

2 ай бұрын

It’s actually more than 20,000 years!

@anonperson3972

2 ай бұрын

You would think that 10,000 years on a desert planet might lead to some innovations in reverse osmosis technology lol

@enmiredbythelazy4401

2 ай бұрын

Seems more likely that either our own tech will destroy us, we'll destroy each other, or an ice age will set in that will set us back to the bronze age because historically we never seem prepared for such things. It seems we're still a bit too much monkey to get it right. Or, technically I suppose, Orangutan :) Not that dystopia is inevitable, but looking at behaviors to date... .

you miss the most obvious option......vacuum against the skin. The steps and motion squeezes soft small vacuum pumps with reed valves holding the vacuum. This provides the phase change and rapid cooling. The salt would be left on your skin an the water would condense on the ambient/pressure side of the reed valves.

@katiegreene3960

2 ай бұрын

I like that idea

As an HVAC technician, you did a great job of explaining how a ac unit “moves heat”.

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

I appreciate that! great hearing from an expert in the business! cheers

Yep, in the book they individually make ear and nose plugs cause each person is different and a seal is required. Also in the book the boots provide the pumping power pumping from each step you make. The book is so much more🙂 Frank Herbert didnt miss a thing.

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

dude's a genius, that is for sure!

@MrMonkeybat

2 ай бұрын

But he did miss thermodynamics. For every watt of kinetic energy produced by the muscles two watts of body heat is produced, You can not refrigerate an engine below ambient temperature with energy produces by that engine that violates thermodynamics. The phase change cooling provided by sweating is very useful to us.

@keithkofoed219

Ай бұрын

@@MrMonkeybatwhat if the springs are made of a material that acts as a battery releasing extra energy with each step?

@Hacksmith needs to build a stillsuit and test it in the Sahara

@katiegreene3960

2 ай бұрын

Yes

@erinmcdonald7781

2 ай бұрын

Yes! ✊

@LuisSierra42

2 ай бұрын

I can already see the thumbnail: "We are drinking our own piss with our stillsuit"

@mikemorton954

2 ай бұрын

​@@LuisSierra42 And don't forget being able to poop in your suit. 😮

@nathanharmon8971

2 ай бұрын

100% would want that more than a lightsaber

The pressures your talking about for desalination would be used on an industrial scale. There are other methods of desalination that would be more SUITable to these applications, like anisotropic membranes and capillary tubes. In regards to space suits.... heat management is a way bigger issue than what you said. Space is "cold" but without any atmosphere it is really hard to remove heat from the body. A space suit protects the astronaut from solar radiation heating, but would also limit the amount of heat that can be radiated away. A key function of a space suit is to remove the heat the body generates and actively expel it into space. Apollo space suits used 4 L of water a day to do this through sublimation.

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

well done there with the "SUITable" :) and great points!

@ipp_tutor

2 ай бұрын

The only real conceptual problem with the stillsuit is its mindboggling efficiency, reducing a water loss of 3.7 L/day to just 15 mL, effectively recycling 99.4% of all the water our bodies release. We could totally power a deal pump with body motion. We already have hand pumps that do the same, so it would be a simple matter of adapting the technology to make it wearable. But filtering out 100 mL of water from 200 mL of sweat or urine is hundreds of times easier than filtering out 99.6 mL of water from 100 mL of sweat or urine, no matter what technology you use. The problem is that separation gets harder (and you need more pressure, i.e., energy) as your stock solution gets more concentrated, which it will the more water you remove from it.

So 2 things. Peltier chips are no where near as efficient as phase change. So, phase change would be the way to go, and you would have to find the right fluid given the temps involved. Second, you can build up those pressures really easily with just walking. You have to remember that a piston works as a multiplier depending on the size of the piston head and the force applied. It will take more steps to get it done, but even a tea spoon at a time with 5,000 steps adds up. As for the solid waste... I guess you could have a liner that draws/wicks liquid from the solid waste, along with it getting, ahem, mushed about while you're walking could draw out a significant portion of the liquid out then be sent along to the RO in the suit. I would not envy the person who has to maintain the suit, though.

@JinKee

2 ай бұрын

I had a friend who went to Afghanistan as a civilian volunteer to build schools during the war. After building only one of five schools, he inhaled some faecal dust that was generated by human faeces that had been desiccated by the sun. The pneumonia he got was bad enough to have him medically evacuated home.

@tylerparker3237

2 ай бұрын

Phase change material has been used by the military for decades with ice vests. Problem is the energy required to change the material back to solid form. Peltier may be more inefficient, but it can run as long as you have an energy source.

@ipp_tutor

2 ай бұрын

@@tylerparker3237 That's a good point. Compression to the pressures you would need to generate with a heel pump while walking on sand is, I think, unattainable. I don't think you could pump fast enough to run a phase change heat pump.

As a Dune fan, that was fun. Thanks Ricky!

@ipp_tutor

2 ай бұрын

Dito! Loved it!

Dune Pt 2 is an instant classic and even better than its excellent forebearer (Pt 1).

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

I couldn't agree more! Dune Pt 2 really took the story to new heights.

@ipp_tutor

2 ай бұрын

@@TwoBitDaVinci Absolutely! The ending was like the beginning of of a video game, like "Things are JUST getting started" I hope they make Dune III or all the rest of the books for that matter, lol

@erinmcdonald7781

2 ай бұрын

I haven't seen it yet, so it's good to hear that it's even better than part one. It would be epic if they do all the books!

Maybe you can produce electricity with the chemicals in our waste products or mixed with something in the suit. Water, ammonia, zinc, sodium. Piezo, solar, maybe perovskites but we should also consider the gravity, weather, air pressure and atmosphere on the planet. There could be more energy and ways of harvesting than we know but I think this suit could be possible and will have to be in the future. We could probably make something but might be bigger than a spacesuit. I guess it would need to start somewhere. The first iterations definitely wouldn't look like that.

Maybe static electricity from the motion across the sand… they have to shuffle-step to not attract a worm.

What a great content : adding applied engineering angle to science fiction.

@roystonboodoo7525

2 ай бұрын

Should be the reverse for good sci-fi

@icosthop9998

2 ай бұрын

Yes

@ipp_tutor

2 ай бұрын

Agreed. We need to examine the many great ideas some of the best sci-fi writers have thought about. Most of them were great scientists in their own right

@ipp_tutor

2 ай бұрын

Agreed. We need to examine the many great ideas some of the best sci-fi writers have thought about. Most of them were great scientists in their own right

Two bit what you did miss was the black could absorb that energy and then we could use the black to absorb the heat and then use it to power the source one other benefit we could exploit to get somewhat around the laws of thermodynamics is using something called (ik im gonna spell this wrong) Kurkovs rule of radiation which black is a great heat emitter it actually emitts more heat than white reflects... It's also why the SR71 black bird is painted black to radiate heat away from the plane. This could also act as part of the cooling system if we need to. So, one more thing while the filtration and such for the urian and all isn't currently possible, we can, of course, possibly use condensation to make water by cooling the air using the heat pump if we could idk just an idea Im not engineer but something like that might be possible and much more feasible than filtering your own crap granted the problem would be the lack of humidity for it to work while it could work on very low amounts Idk how much humidity their be to even make it generate enough water for the user.

The laws of thermodynamics make the stillsuit impossible as described. Your comments on the need for additional energy via solar cells are on point. Ditto waste treatment. Essentialy the still suit is a completely closed environment that works by magic (ref. Arthur C Clarke)

@jonjohns8145

2 ай бұрын

I was thinking the energy source Could be an Advanced form of Piezoelectricity? Placed in specific points in the suit could provide enough power to power the cooling system. I know most Piezoelectric material today isn't that efficient or powerful to provide that much power, but Dune is set 23,000 years in the future, something could have been developed/discovered that would provide enough power.

@ipp_tutor

2 ай бұрын

@@jonjohns8145 Why don't suits just work on Spice??? If that stuff allows interstellar travel, I'll bet keeping you cool and moist would be easy as pie, LOL

@andrewreynolds912

2 ай бұрын

​@@ipp_tutor I mean theirs gotta be a reason why its not being used for that

@matthewramos9170

2 ай бұрын

@@andrewreynolds912 There is, Spice isn't a fuel source. It's just a drug that increases brain function/capacity and increases life span.

@andrewreynolds912

2 ай бұрын

@@matthewramos9170 I thought so because I knew it was just a drug that's it how can it be used in tech? That's possible that's obviously no

We tend to forget about the heat on dune that is an energy source. We know there are solar stills today. It would definitely work using evaporation.

@katiegreene3960

2 ай бұрын

Good point ...when life gives you lemons

I can remember an old documentary about food in the military, and one of the ideas they had, had to do with dehydrated foods, and how to rehydrate them. The solution was some sort of filter that was permeable and would only let water through, the idea being that you could source water from any source, including dirty water, and it was even suggested that you could pee in it, if need be. This technology was under the development of the Natick Research center, if i remember correctly, so something like that would solve the urine problem, at least. Allthough, with regards to the waste problem, if you could transfer that into some sort of miniature bio-reactor containing some type (or mix) of micro-organisms, that would take the waste, and have the contents of the bio reactor eat the waste products (ureum, feces) while creating something in return (like heat, and maybe oxygen, for instance). With heating and cooling the body, those are opposite problems. Studies suggest that to keep the body warm, all you have to do, is basically keep the torso warm, so the bloodflow can then transport the warm blood to the extremities. However, to cool a body down, you would have to do pretty much the opposite, namely cooling down the extremities (palm of the hand, sole of the feet, inside of the wrist) and certain points along the body, like the inside of your thighs and armpits, the side (and perhaps, the back) of your neck, and at least the forehead. It would be interesting, if you could somehow tap the thermal energy from the body, and then turn it into (usable) electricity, perhaps with some sort of thermo-electric fibre or cloth, like powerfelt ?

using the pressures from walking rather than just stepping would help to move water around, and even press on solid wastes, so the liquids can be handled in other ways. using the natural body heat along with the desert heat, you may not be able to boil water, but you can still speed up its evaporation. using the cooling system already in the suit, you can return it to a liquid state like dew, and drink from that. even if we only get a few aspects working in a modern version of the suit, more can be added later to better versions. it is well worth the attempt.

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

so very well said! yeah that's really a good point, improve upon certain aspects, and keep iterating over time. brilliant

Being able to take the water from your breath, the suit could use an air intake to dehydrate the waste. Capture the water from the air with the same process, while the waste would just end up as a dry powder. The powder would be rich in salts, nitrate and phosphorus, and biomass. It could be pretty important for them to make fertilizer and rich soil to have food.

Very cool subject for a video. Loving it! PS custom made earplug that snugly fit are not uncomfortable at all. I've a festival pro and haven been to over 200 festivals in my live. I've never had issues with them, being uncomfortable. If you often go to places 3with loud noises then I can highly recommend getting a set of custom ones. Sure its a big one time investment, but it will prevent you from getting tinnitus.

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

wow i love a good musics festival... what kind do you usually attend? been to a couple of great EDM ones lately

I think nanotechnology would have advanced enough for most of the technical stuff to become possible in the future. I was thinking that some piezoelectric stuff could probably do a lot with just breathing alone let alone moving around doing things. Biotech would probably take care of the excrement side of things. Those personal shields were a bit strech imo.

You also need heating. Deserts can get very cold at night.

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

yeah great point, luckily heat pumps can easily be reversed!

The answer to the water purification is in the name of the device: it’s a still suit. You just have the place where dirty water is collected be the place where the heat from the peltie coolers is deposited. Then you’ll reach the boiling temperature of water, and it will evaporate off and be collected near a cold point close to the other end of the peltire cooler.

@erinmcdonald7781

2 ай бұрын

That sounds like an amazingly simple and workable solution.

You should partner with Engineering Explained and have Jason do an engineering analysis of a Dune suit...

I see different issues. The suit is being worn for prolonged time, how do you prevent dermal infections or fungal growth? There’s an abundance of energy around the planet to extract it. Something like a thermocouple (I know that is a potential energy and without the differential it doesn’t work, but heat pumps still do) Feces, well that is an issue. But you (not personally you) through generations could adapt to eat very little of solid food, think of Tuareg people. Urine is if healthy really an antiseptic, more than a mess to deal in a bacteriological sense you need a chemical analysis/decomposition plant. Desalination of the sweat, breath vapor… could be prolonged during the whole day (look at point two). And then the final thought, the people who live in earth deserts consume way less water than we do. Less than half of the 3.6 liters. But thanks for presenting that it was way more insightful than I never thought. Deserve a great like 👍.

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

great points! I couldn't even imagine wearing that suit for 1 week... sounds like a good way to torture someone! yeah there's a lot here more than what we could cover in 1 video. thanks for the like and comment! I appreciate you!

Love the video! One thing tho - the desalination part is kind of not relevant, is it? Hydration requires electrolytes, so why filter them out? So no need for desalination at least, tho I get that we would still have to filter some of the toxic wastes… curious to hear your thoughts here!

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

yeah that's so true, since its a closed loop! so maybe try to keep the electrolytes, and ensure you can make it sanitary and safe! brilliant! that does make it easier, maybe UV lights etc to kill biologicals?

@marxug1

2 ай бұрын

Bad ol’ thermodynamics ruins the party again! The energy is ultimately coming from the combination of the food the Fremen has eaten with oxygen, mediated by fresh-ish water. The reason the kidneys expel nitrogen salts into the urine is the same reason you can’t slake your thirst with urine. Trace electrolytes or no, you still need to apply significant energy to roll waste water back up the hill towards fresh.

You never read the book but the circulation in the still suit is powered by the humans legs moving and pumping the circulation. As long as you are moving outside the suit works and if you are in the cave where little movement is going on then it is not needed as the caves are cool naturally and passive mechanical devices could be used.

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

you can power a circulating pump that way maybe sure. but how are you going to run a heat pump and water filtration?

@jonjohns8145

2 ай бұрын

@@TwoBitDaVinci Piezoelectricity? embedded in the right locations, a Piezoelectric material could produce energy from movement alone.

@MrMonkeybat

2 ай бұрын

@@jonjohns8145 Googling says the efficiency of muscles is 30% so for every watt of kinetic energy produced by your muscles 2 watts of body heat are produced. You can not cool an engine below ambient temperature with a refrigerator powered by that same engine. So remember to plug you solar panel parasol into your stillsuit.

@anthonycarbone3826

2 ай бұрын

@@TwoBitDaVinci You mentioned the solar power on the suit itself which should provide plenty of power if the sun always is shining during the day. Plus you as an engineer have to admit that necessity is the mother of invention so of course new not yet invented technology would have to come into reality. New ideas just need one person out of trillions to come up with the idea and implement it to improve the lives of those trillions of people. In Issac Asimov's Foundation novels the ability to miniaturize technology was envisioned and it is amazing to think the original transistor is now a physical interaction that looks nothing like the original device.

Interesting thoughts. From the book, I took the idea that they were dealing with different technologies and materials as water did not cling to some surfaces that were used as funnels. Water clings to lots of things because of wetting and the meniscus that forms on that surface. Water forms an upturned meniscus because of wetting while a downturned meniscus is formed in mercury because it does not "wet" a surface.

This would be a cool application for AI. Feed it the problem and see what it designs. Even a partial suit could be interesting in the Sahara. As our climate changes, we are going to need to adapt to the environment if we want to survive. I think what we learn could also help us develop suits for living on a really extreme place like Saturn's moon Titan.

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

wow we really wouldn't need engineers then! lol

You have missed an option for dealing with power. Rather than using downward force, use the motion of the legs moving backwards and forwards. Connect a cable from the heal to a flywheel at the waist. As the leg moves forward, the cable is pulled out turning to flywheel producing energy using a simple induction dynamo. As the leg then moves back wards the cable is drawn in and then out creating more movement. With both legs you will get far more power than just downward heel pressure. This can also be used to create pressure for the movement of water around the body. As for water extraction from fecal matter, you have the mass heat from the desert to evaporate the water out. Once dried out the water can be condensed and filtered in a small chamber where pressure can be increased, rather than all across the suit. You have forgotten something about the suit though, it needs to work in reverse during the night, as desert temperatures drop dramatically, down to freezing. Using heat sinks from the day temperatures this can be done. In the same way water heating is being done in commercial and homes with heat batteries. For the breath collection it would be better to have a fully sealed helmet. The same as in space. But using a lightweight helmet similar to something used in skydiving but air sealed to the rest of the suit.

While I have yet to succumb to Dune in any of its forms, my days of imbibing SciFi novels ended decades ago, I do keep up with technology in the way that you do. Peltier devices can probably be made into much smaller forms and there are piezo actuators that can be shrunk too. Very high pressures in very small spaces can also be achieved. So repetitive micro versions of the suit's technology would be able to become fabric so long as the power needed could be acquired. Just recently there was a report on a way to generate electric energy similar to PV panels but utilizing heat. Thermal Photovoltaics. I think the biggest problem will be isolation of the various temperatures in thin enough layers to gain comfort at the skin interface.

I think the relative humidity on Arakis would be at or near zero, evidenced by the fact that low pressure systems for not produce rain but just whip up sand into the air. In very low humidity the temperature differential between areas of shade and areas of direct sunlight is more extreme, on a humid day sitting in the shade barely provides cooling because the damp air has a lot more thermal mass. If the suit could utilize the difference in energy between the SunGard side of the suit and the shaded side then you could have stronger evaporative effects on one side and relative cooling and condensation possible on the other. Another point is that Amonia, which is present in the urine the suit is reclaiming moisture from anyway, is an efficient refrigerant. It's possible that the suit runs a heat exchange between the shaded side of the suit and the sunward side using urine as a refrigerant. The suit could have domed surfaces on the chest, back and thighs which house heat exchangers and the system uses valves to invert the flow as the body of the wearer rotates relative to the sun. Evaporation however would provide the majority of the suits cooling effect and this is only possible in controlled low humidity, the skin contact side would not just have to be porous but would have to create a significant stand off to allow for air flow. Simple valves could be used to fore a direction of the air flow in a desired direction, say, from the core where the body produces the most heat, to the extremities where the bodies warmth is less of an issue. The housings previously mentioned for ammonia heat exchangers can also create cavities where cool air allows humidity from sweat to condense and be absorbed by semi permeable membranes and wicked off to the reservoirs. The salt in the sweat would slowly build up in these cavities around the heat exchangers, but given that salt is hydrophilic its presence actually helps the water to condense, you just need your absorbent membrane to be more hydrophilic than the salt while not becoming clogged by build ups. Salt also has impressive thermal mass which might cause lag in the efficiency of the heat exchangers as it builds up, so past a certain point the suit will have to be cleaned. As for feces, deal with them separately. They are accumulated in a pouch that is separated from the rest of the system and works as a miniaturized version of the rest of the suit, there is low humidity air passed through the catch pocket which enables evaporation. The air is then passed though the cool side heat exchanger housings, determined by thermostatic valves, and allowed to condense separately, we call this black water. Manual pumping, provided by the heels but also by valve-mediated sacks in the groin, backs of knees and armpits pump the reclaimed black water push the black water through charcoal filters to collect any particulate matter. Disinfection is another matter, but what we have in abundance is salt, and by the miracle of electrolysis and with the aid of a little electricity, we can create hydrogen peroxide to treat the carbon filtered black water before its re introduced to the main water reservoirs. I'm not an electrician but if the suit is powered by movement then it could be designed to generate static electricity as one moves. I almost imagine a pad of wool and a pad of plastic rubbing against one another and discharging through a reservoir of slaty sweat and offgasing a little peroxide to be captured for the decontamination of blackwater. This could be a low energy solution to the desalination issue, because at a certain level of salinity you won't be able to reclaim more water but you can use the salty sweat to make bleach. Once the suit has fully or at least mostly dehydrated your fecies , back at the seich the dry turds can be made into charcoal for the suits filter.

Great and funny intro!

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

Ricky, I used to work in the sewerage and water treatment industry. I have worked at the Canberra Sewerage plant, two plants in the North Head extension on the south side of Botany Bay, and the Sydney plant. Up to Caines, they provide design from Sydney and several others. I am a Project manager and civil engineer who worked in Singapore designing and building Tunnel Boring Machines and five underground stations, managing 160 engineers and architects from 1999 to 2004. My work life was from 1975 to 2023. I will leave Lismore, NSW, at the end of September 2024 to travel around Australia. Read the following comment.

Haven't read the books only saw the first film by Denis Villeneuve; I do enjoy sci-fi though and truly liked this video. Hope you'll think of more videos along this sorta angle, sci-fi concepts applied to reality.

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

you bet!

@erinmcdonald7781

2 ай бұрын

Agreed! This was a fun video, encouraging our inner nerd to think outside the box. Dune has all sorts of technologies from the ornithopters to shields to space folding. Looking forward to more scifi engineering! ✌😎🍀

Reverse osmosis membranes are subject to fouling from scale build up and biological growth. With 150°f easily available evaporation seems more viable. There are materials that can help speed up evaporation and re condensation.

I'd go for more modest. Probably a thermal suit for >100F weather. For workers who have to work outside, during heat waves. Probably need to find a suitable phase change material, that would circulate around the suit. A high energy density power supply (lithium metal, exchangeable modules, ..). A very portable heat exchanger. Probably need some technology breakthroughs.

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

Great point! I think we start small and iterate over time... compare iPhone 1 to 16 :)

Also peltiers chips use much more energy than using a heat pump.

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

That's an interesting point! Energy efficiency is definitely a key factor to consider.

carbon nano tubes can be used to help the cleaning process. Movement and metabolic heat can be used to create thermal gradients, that can be used to generate electricity. Mechanical pumps can be designed to force fluids through the nanotube filtration system. Also, the faecal matter can be mixed in with the liquid collected, also mixed together via movement. Diet will be a significant factor, people living like this will be mostly on a meat only type diet. This will mean that they would have far fewer bowel movements, and far less waste (from my own experience), their water dynamic equilibrium will have a greater volume though. I feel like with the technology available a suit like this can certainly be built.

12:34 1. They could use tesla valves to pump the water as it is collected and probably be the first layer to filter...Thought the pressure may not be as high as you'd want but passing it through a membrane will for sure get rid of a lot of the impurities...no moving parts or external high energy input. 2. For energy to run some basic stuff they could use Piezoelectricity...using the high external temperature and others where they'll experience force from walking or other movements Fell free to correct me where I may be wrong.

Engineering challenge: How much energy would be required if all processes were 100% efficient? Assuming the still suit could gather 100% of the energy generated by a human (i.e. The Matrix), would that be enough to handle these cooling and filtering processes? Also assume that the black suit wouldn't heat up from thermal radiation, but it could harness that energy instead.

The suit sleeves should probably incorporate jointed levers to generate energy from motion. Implemented correctly, such levers could even be used to slow excessively-fast movements to prevent injury; maybe even aid in reducing overly-rhythmic steps... all while capturing energy from the wearer's motion. Under normal circumstances, the impediment to movement probably wouldn't need to be very great to produce useful amounts of energy.

Peltier coolers generate massive amounts of heat and require something to dissipate that heat or they'll burn out very quickly. You could use recycled water circulating to do it, although it wouldn't be very efficient at really high temperatures. It would probably still be better than large, clunky heat sinks. The fun part is that they work both ways. They will generate voltage from a temperature difference. 150 degrees outside against body temp would generate a small voltage and joining a bunch together could provide you with at least some electrical power.

7:53 Fun fact. In the book Frank Herbert actually thought of that. One of the tell tale signs someone is Fremen is distinctive callouses around the nostrils from wearing still suit nose tubes your entire life.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, ideas and videos. Very fun idea for a project. I think you may have been a bit quick to dismiss sterling technology. Just need to reimagine the gas flows in a flexible instead of ridged container. My overall take would be, if you could actually make it work it likely would be exhausting to wear since every move you made in it would be against a resistance in one fashion or another.

I don't understand why nobody has come up with the engineering for this yet? Perhaps it's just too silly - but could be fun to make for sports or leisure in hot countries and considering things are getting hot some of the engineering will be worth looking into for future clothing.

A really fun video! Two technologies you missed when talking about heat. First is a radiative exterior that could work like that white paint that cools buildings cooler than ambient (instead of paint this could be a future tech that emits IR directly into space and powered by body heat (WTEGs?)). The second is that as there is no moisture to retain heat in the atmosphere, the evening temperatures would be below freezing. Using a sophisticated phase change material daytime heat could be rejected at night. On the poo... something we could do today to capture the water would be to vaporize the poo into ash and then condense the water out of the off-gas. Could it be done in a still suit? Never say never!

We have material that blocks water like rubber, but we don't have a fabric-like material for its outer layer that can reflect sunlight and radiate heat away effectively. Even if it exists, I'm not sure if it can lose heat faster than the amount rubber traps. If it's invented, one effect is if you made it a reversible garment it will radiate heat towards your body and keep you warm in the cold. Maybe in the future, there will be rubber-like material with better thermal conductivity (rubber is approximately 0.5 W/m·K).

As the suit was described in the book, there were pumps in the heels. This could provide energy which could be used for many of the features.

Great and fun video

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for watching and enjoying the video!

Based on the fact that this suit needs to be passively powered (lets say movement is the only possible source of power) i would assume that Peltier cell would not be used. Rather it would use natural evaporation within the suit to cool down the inner layers. This would also solve the issue of salt (and most other contaminants) removal from the water itself. The tricky part would be then to remove the leftover salt from the suit systems as it would build up to a point of clogging everything up. And i dont have a good idea for that yet, maybe except some tricky way to crumble it while walking and allowing it to fall out throu some sort of disposal system. But thats my guess ;)

Carbon nanotubes could solve the filtration & power systems issues as could microservo cranks in the ankles, knees, hips, & elbow joints. As for the waste filtration perhaps compression from the leg movement aids in seiving the solids. They do say fluids are involved in cooling, so heat sinking would be good in cooling off the fluids.

With the feces one would want to remove it from the skin to reduce damage to the skin. The water in the system could be used to remove it from that area and liquify it, for easier filtration. The brine would be pumped closer to the exterior of the suit, where evaporative cooling and filtration would occur. This wouldn’t require the higher pressures of reverse osmosis. It could also be easily implemented using the movement of the body as the pumping mechanism. There’s a environmentalist that I follow who uses a portable handheld bidet. The small amount of force that she uses to operate that would provide enough force for this system. I however don’t believe that the pumping system used would be practical for this situation. One would want a series of hoses with check valves. As the hoses get crushed by the movement of the body they would force the fluids out of that section of tubing. When the hose expands from the crushing force being removed it would provide suction to that area of tubing. The movement of the fluids in conjunction with the evaporative cooling of the fluids would help to keep the user cool. To clean the system is perhaps the most difficult task. It would require access to the solids and a means of flushing the contaminants out of the hoses, without fluid loss while in use.

@katiegreene3960

2 ай бұрын

Yuck 😅

@MrMonkeybat

2 ай бұрын

To keep the waste away from the skin perhaps they harvest it directly with catheters and some kind of er buttplug that opens up into a funnel and pipes it through an umbilical to a trailer that is tugged along behind you with a solar still in it to evaporate the water. Powered by a solar panel sombrero on your head. The solar panels are important as for every wat of kinetic energy produced by your muscles 2 watts of body heat are produced. You can not refrigerate an engine below ambient temperature with energy produces by that engine that violates thermodynamics.

Cool Analysis. Peltier chips are energy hungry and are pretty inefficient from my experience.

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

yeah very true, but man I love the form factor!

@functionalvanconversion4284

2 ай бұрын

@@TwoBitDaVinci 👍

@MrMonkeybat

2 ай бұрын

There is still research on creating more efficient thermo coples, this is science fiction. O with a small back pack you could fit a sterling cooler, you also need a solar panel sombrero to power it.

About the cooling: I'm pretty sure, they explicitly say it in the second movie, that they use water as refrigerant. I think when they extract the water from the enemies they killed, they say they wouldn't drink that, but just use as cooling liquid.

yes we talked about this before, the current problem some fans in engineering pointed is the cooling and water filtration units , with our current technology, the cooling and water filtration is too big to be in a suit, so mobility and compatibility will be an issue, but the rest like osmosis fiber and waste management is very possible. its all possible we can definitely build one but the wearer will need to carry a big heavy bag containing the cooling and filtration units which you definitely cant move and fight with.

Hey, Ricky. This topic is really cool and intrigued my attention. I did think of this engineering question about this suit and their breathing system. Like you said, seems like it’s extremely difficult tasks to build this suit. I totally agree on what you said the energy would lose a bit when they walk on the sand. Yes, waste collection and water treatment are usually large systems which couldn’t be manufactured and attached by one’s body. My work is all about waste and water treatment actually. Desalination system is usually also huge system which couldn’t attached to a person’s body. I knew you came from India and wastewater treatment system usually had to be zero emission in India. That’s our work for wastewater treatment on zero water emission. But I thought of another question, we could build another system like CO₂ reclaiming system from people breathing out and tackle the climate change on earth.😂🤔

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

very interesting, thanks for sharing!

Assuming 10192 is standard time, or Earth based AD, they are ~8200 years ahead of us. So, 2 big things: A) Nano tech will be amaze balls then B) Solar tech will likely be ~99.99% efficient. If you're still suit could have perfect reflectivity, and perfect solar conversion, then how will it work? Well, think about when you go stand outside for 30 minutes naked. Where do you get sunburned? On your shoulders and neck. Shoulders mainly, because they point toward the sun. So how would a still suit be designed? It would have solar nano tech in the shoulders, and perfect reflectivity elsewhere. Think super white paint that reflects the sun, eliminating the need for air conditioning! Then you are nice and cool inside, and you've got all the power you need for airflow, water filtration, etc.

Not sure if this has been corrected yet but at around @15:25 astronauts in the vacuum of space have the problem of staying cool, not staying warm. Because there's literally no air, there's no way to vent off heat via conduction and convection, only through radiation. so a lot of the bulk of actual EVA suits is towards cooling, with joint articulation, air pressurization, and reactive propulsion following close behind. space is cold but you'll never know if there's nothing cold touching you or your suit you'll just cook in your own suit till you're dead.

The suit is explained more in depth in the later books. There are foot pumps on the suit for circulation and possibly electrical power. The masks are used way more than the nose tube, the director wanted to show the actors faces more.

We are going to need them pretty soon

if you make a sort of vacuum chamber where every step you make will increase the pressure one way only (like the pressure in the chamber increase but don't let the pressure out) after walking for at least 15 mins the pressure will increase to great levels. as they make it in the scene where they extract the water from jamis. and then use that vacuum for osmosis to purify the waste from sweat urine and feces.

The water reclamation is totally doable, but as described in the first book, stillsuits would turn you into a boil-in-a-bag chicken in the sun, too. Thermodynamics. No evaporative heat transfer would be able to take place. But that may also be why the Fremen move during the night.

ok, aside from the feces part, I think I can see how this can be done; inner layer, almost any of the modern comfortable wicking fabrics would do to pull sweat away from the skin. less than half a mm thick in most places. a thin layer of Gore Tex, which does a beautiful job of water vapor to pass, but disallows liquid water from passing through, another half a mm The outermost layer would be a fairly thin, tough, beathable material to put up with the harsh outer environment du jour. the next layer in would be a thick insulating material, much like winter clothing to keep the heat out. In between the outer and inner layers would be a 2-3mm thick layer of flexible polyurethane, shot through with cooling tubes carrying water, and collection pores and tubing to precipitate and collect water. as long at this layer is kept a few degrees below the wearer's skin temp(5-10c), it should work fine. Breathing; since the point is to collect moisture, it would make sense to run exhalation through a chiller, a similar process by passing it over the chilled polyurethane, pushing the dried air into the insulation layer, being cooler than the surrounding air. Urine; standard collection, to be fed into a non flexible reservoir that is on the outside of the insulating layer, this allows for vapor distillation with precipitation onto the chiller layer, at a cost of having to chill that too 💩not going here, collection alone is a nightmare Cooling; this whole thing depends upon cooling, Polyurethane is actually a great heat conductor, on a par with some metals, very flexible, and hydrophilic, great for capturing water and cooling with A human generates an average of 100 watts of heat on average, as high as 250W in heavy exertion. add heat leakage from the outside environment by various means, you can figure about 500W of heat to be unloaded, max, this can be handled with 100-200w expended on a heat pump. likely half the size of a dorm fridge compressor unit. Peltier Effect? unless there is some extreme breakthrough, fugettaboutit, while small, their efficiency is horrible. I would imagine this would have more the look of heavy winter clothing than the movies show

Two points 1 RO water is bad for the body, it leaches minerals and vitamins from the body. 2 You can not capture all the water, you need enough(40% I think) to carry away the brine. And what do you do with the brine?

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

good point, maybe we keep the electrolytes, and just find a way to sanitize the water

@egoequus6263

2 ай бұрын

The notion that RO or distilled water is bad for you is a myth, most likely pushed by the bottle water industry since DIY purification drastically undercuts their "boutique" water offerings. Also, storing water in plastic has its own contamination issues they don't talk about. I'm sure someone impartial has made a video on why pure water such as distilled or even lab grade deionized is perfectly healthy to drink as a primary water source. If you are so worried about minerals, those can be added after purification in precise levels to one's taste.

I haven’t read all the comments, so I’m not sure if this has been mentioned… but couldn’t you use the hot side of the peltier chip/ external temp to boil the water, leaving behind the salt and collecting the condensation? Or use the heat to dehydrate the “sludge”, collecting the water?

There was a time we rubbed two sticks together. They also fold space so in the far future there will be tech we don't understand, In the 1800 hundreds who would believe solar powered cars possible.

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

so true, this is the sort of suit we definitely will be work on for Mars

It could be feasable if there is an active energy input to it... Like photovoltaic energy would probably be enough.. Also some kind of biochemical, biomechanical process could make filtering water more efficient without requiring so hot pressures

Great video

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching, glad you enjoyed it!

I'm curious if using something like the Sawyer Filters for filtration could work. They are small (.1 microns) semi-porous tubes. Now how the poop could be processed, that is definitely a conundrum.

Thanks for the video, it was interesting. The suits are black, so they absorb a great deal of heat from the sun, which can be used to heat water, which is then fed to heat sinks attached to peltier units on the cool side, to produce electricity which could be used to run other systems, including cooling. A thermal barrier would be needed to contain said heat from the outside, while allowing a flow of heat produced from the inside, to be collected & fed outside, maybe through a similar tubular fluid system & fed to the outside to help with running the peltier units electrical system. With various types of energy collection & productions, pulse pumps can be utilised to build up enough pressure to recycle liquids from the urine & faeces, which can be reduced to dust using a heating systems powered by solar energy amplifiers & liquid batteries, such liquid salt, which is also collected from your sweat, for night time continued use. These heating systems could also be used to overheat the waste, which could reduced the water content to zero, after collecting as vapour, leaving a usable byproduct, a powdered fertiliser for use in the sietch's for growing foods as seen in the movie. It is possible with modern technology to recycle everything from the human body, the ability to miniaturise it while maintaining the output, with lowed energy needs & weight is the obvious problem. Just thinking out loud.

I wonder if slip ring magnetic actuators could be used in the joints to provide power to a suit like this, versus a step impact device.

While it's nice that they're solid-state, the Coefficient of Performance (CoP) for Peltiers is awful, especially for large temperature differences. You could chill a suit with far less power using refrigerants.

i think the water treatment through reverse osmosis can be done, we don't need to do it at the rate as we urinate, but trickling as we walk, probably using hydrolic pressure generated while walking

I’m thinking that a multiphasic bilateral positronic array would likely do the trick. Of course, that would require nearly daily level 3 diagnostics.

I think an energy recovery suite would be exhausting to wear. Also, I think breaking through your mouth will cause medical problems. With an external power source, a two-way nose breathing device water-recovery system could be made now.

nice work

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

Thank you! Cheers!

I loved reading dune back in the nineties. Such a different and fascinating concept compared to other sci-fi. Then a few years ago I continued reading the saga until it reached a meh! Status. Sometimes you should know how to stop while still being great.

So , on the process of pumping , why not use multiple pumps , 2 on the heels , 2 on the elbows and behind the knees. Should work. Then reduce the amount of material you are filtering at a time so you won’t need as much pressure at a time.

Peltier chips and solar panels don't mix. Also solar panels and desert. And conductors and desert and peltier chips. The problem is the heat. As solar panels get hotter they lose efficiency and as conductors heat up the electrical resistance in them rises. You would have to have another layer of insulation to keep the panels and electronics in the still suit cool. So you'd have to have the outside of the suit cooled and the inside too. Where do you put all that heat? I'd say the stillsuit uses some coolant loop that then gets cooled by converting the heat to electricity somehow. It is 20k years in the future, we have enough time to figure that out. Also, space suits aren't big insulators. They are big radiators. Space insulates. In space there is no way to lose heat other than radiation. If astronauts didn't have any cooing garment underneath that space suit, they would overheat because they wouldn't be able to lose heat.

Kinetic energy generators can create power on your movement alone I got salt generators where you can power a wrist watch just by sitting in a glass of salt water so there's some technologies you can think of

There are many different refrigerants than 134a. 134 is usually used in a lot of appliances and automotive. R22and 410a in residential ac. And several others.

Hey Ricky! 👋 At 0:25 Another Important Factor would be, What would it SMELL Like! 🤔😬 Mike in San Diego. 🌞🎸🚀🖖

I laughed when you said we all have A/C. I'm in Montana & I don't have it. A wood burning stove & a boiler, yep got those. Great video though.

You could deliberately evaporate the water to clean it just captor the vapor. But things would still get really stinky.

It seems likely that you could do an actual thermodynamic analysis of how much energy it would take to pump heat away from your body, and how much extra heat gets created when doing mechanical work to mechanically power the suit, and how much energy solar panels could generate… l haven’t done the analysis, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it turned out to be thermodynamically impossible.

The director took creative liberties with the story, but overall great films. Intrigued to see what happens in the 3rd film.

Well, you are looking at this as a physicist or an engineer might (and you did a good summary job of that). But perhaps you should turn to organics and life form evolution, maybe cell membrane interfaces. The kidneys come to mind as well as the skin, both depending on a molecular biologic circulatory system. (Actually, pure "poop" never gets inside you - because topologically, you are a donut and food changes to poop as it travels through clouds of probiotics within the donut hole.) For outer coverings, so do the robes, scarfs, and hoods worn by Bedouins in the deserts. How do turtles rid themselves of heat? Etc. But if energy is needed, why not focus and use that heat? I enjoyed your video and agree that science fiction is food for the mind (and perhaps the soul).🙂

There is a 3rd method of desalination developed 4 years ago that uses little energy and no pressure.

Though a good thought process to start … the theory fails in developing the hypotheses. The first begins with the biodynamic of breathing … one needs to breathe in through the nose and then exhaust through the mount, except during extreme need of oxygen, then obtained via the mouth. As said a good thought process to start with, but in the development of just a working hypothesis flaws begin to appear.

This doesn't really relate to this video... But I keep wondering what built in wind turbines could do for battery life in an electric car. The draft effect is there anyway, with draft the turbines could be completely hidden from view. Going down hill, slowing down,... maybe having two turbines one that spins at less of a drag effect and one that opens up when your coasting and going down hill that has more of a drag effect. Just putting the idea out there, haven't seen much on the topic

@580guru

2 ай бұрын

Most electric cars make use of regenerative braking that recharges the battery when coasting or braking. This is why, unless you drive like a maniac you seldom need to replace your brake pads or discs. This is just one way of saving on repair costs along with far fewer moving parts to wear out, no oil/filter changes, etc... and why the existing automotive industry is spreading false information...to scare people so they won't make the switch.

Vacuum distillation would extract all the water.

I read somewhere that if you filter your urine it produces 85% fresh water.

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 ай бұрын

probably even higher than that! yeah

Sadly, if you use energy supplied by the wearer it would have to be generated by their metabolism, which is only about 25% efficient. So for every extra watt of energy produced, 3 watt of extra heat would be produced. Loss of water by sweating is actually a human super-power. Only humans and horses sweat. Water has a very high latent heat of vapourisation, so it takes away a lot of heat energy. I loved Dune, though the film lacks a lot of the detail of the book, which embeds the adventure in a entire eco-system, economy and politics, but the Still suit could not work without an external power source.

I'm wondering if they couldn't use very small pockets and make a vacuum chamber. Boil off the water in very tiny amounts

The book actually references the calluses that fremen have on their nostrils!