Watching this video from the perspective of an Italian HEMA practitioner: Wrath guard? Never heard of it. Must be a German thing. *Starts video* Wait a second! That's posta di donna! Always interesting to see parallels between different schools

@LycanRace

4 жыл бұрын

Let us all unite the people in the world through the mastery of martial arts that will climax into deep understanding and respect, tolerance and peace!

@flintrocks

4 жыл бұрын

@Mazhar Imam Personally based on my limited knowledge of German fencing, and my own study of Fiore longsword, German longsword is much more aggressive and about the attack, while Italian seems more reserved, more about maintaining guards, luring your opponent into bad moves, and capitalizing on openings in your opponents guard. I also notice Italian fencing tends to be alot more compact, while Germans like to flourish quite a bit. A good comparison Iv seen is that German fencing is similair to a "zerg rush" if you know what that means, often with great flurries and powerful rushes, while Italian fencing likes to counter fence, maintain guards, exploit openings, cover lines of attack and use footwork to avoid blows, etc. Of course its very dependent on the fencer, individual style can vary greatly. Oh, and Italian Fencing deals alot more with using the sword to initiate grapples, take-downs and disarms.

@p.s.9658

4 жыл бұрын

We in Spain call that "La Mujer Orgullosa" (The Proud Woman), but if we shoot charging the blade over the shoulder and pointing high diagonal, we call that "Furia" (Fury, or Wrath). It's a position for stand as a fully armored user, also being dissuasive and transitive if you like.

@skyereave9454

4 жыл бұрын

Kind of prefer fiore but this is cool too

As a Kendo/Kenjutsu practitioner, I find these videos very instructive! We use a similar stance (kamae) called Hasso. And it served exactly the purpose you show in your video. Thank you very much!! 🙇

@Xethavosh

4 жыл бұрын

Really? I had done Kendo for a while in the past and I've never seen someone acutally use any kamae other then jodan, chudan, and gedan.

@caseydubois3645

3 жыл бұрын

@@Xethavosh From what I've heard (but don't quote me on this), kenjutsu allows much more freedom in what guards and plays can be done than kendo. I think the Metatron has a video on it.

@Ianmar1

Жыл бұрын

​@@caseydubois3645 What do you mean by kenjutsu? With a few notable exceptions, kenjutsu today is kata only; there is no freedom of choice, you use the guard specified for the kata. Granted most kenjutsu curricula go much deeper and are much more versitile than kendo and you will likely learn more guards. Indeed kendo's nearest koryu (kobudo or old style) ancestor is probably Hokushin Itto Ryu which is renowned among kenjutsu styles for its very small very technical curriculum. A secret in kendo that we don't tell beginners is that you are allowed to use what ever guard you like (except for soete: halfswording) only given the restrictive target areas and high athleticism of competition kendo most are kind of stupid.

@Ianmar1

Жыл бұрын

​@@Xethavosh I use hasso for turning around. It also has use against nito because it denies osae waza with the shoto: kzread.info/dash/bejne/ep2lmqVvn63ghLg.html

The only thing I really missed here: none of you tried to unscrew the pommel and end the opponent rightly. Great job and thank you very much!

Cool. This give us more visual idea on how to use this guards. Please do more video like this.

This is going to be so useful for my trips to the grocery store

@caseydubois3645

3 жыл бұрын

Where do you live?! Chicago?!?!

"high guard of the lady" -fiore

How to attack from Wrath guard: Hit them in the head. XD Don't get me wrong, it's an interesting video and a nice demonstration of techniques, but it's funny how Wrath seems to be the "And then you hit them in the head" guard.

@MansMan42069

3 жыл бұрын

Well, it is basically the "Angry" cut.

Zornhut is one of my favorite stance to strike intimidation, I never knew the spelling of these strikes just how to say them, thank you

@with_outany_videos6182

4 жыл бұрын

why other positions are needed if there is a zornhut

I tend to like false-edge cuts a lot, but the speedy simplicity in the zornhau is just... chef's kiss.

Oh, so you CAN have your sword laying on your shoulder... I always thought Dark Souls made that up cause it looked cool.

@HappyMSI1

4 жыл бұрын

As long as little Jimmy doesn't try to joke on you by pressing it from behind you.

@catocall7323

4 жыл бұрын

It's how most people naturally carry it if not trained and not pointing it at the enemy.

@user-vt6td9hp3g

4 жыл бұрын

how else would you rest it

@le-blanc1440

4 жыл бұрын

@Heberth Ryan i don't think that's very comfortable with huge swords.

@Synnkai

4 жыл бұрын

I'd call this a "resting guard".

I find that in HEMA, the best defense is often a great offense In fact, most martial arts are, it really flips the old adage on it's head Note: Since people are confused, I'm not saying a good offense is the best defense, I'm saying the exact reverse of that

@MegaFarinato

4 жыл бұрын

Although i would generally agree when talking about hand to hand combat, If you are talking about "historicaly accuarate" fencing (meaning, meant to be used in an unarmored duel) i woudnt think so. Just going for the cut will only expose you, putting you life at stake, and there are so many techinques that rely on having an advantge in timing and/or positioning, and you cant always spect to have it. But if you mean to offer a threat, like your point or exposing the foes open lines when closing yours, then I would agree, afterall, thats what fencing and the "master cuts" basically are, right?

@bobu5213

4 жыл бұрын

@@MegaFarinato Uhm historically accurate meaning unarmoured? Nope, sorry you're just wrong. Even liechtenauer talked about mounted and armoured fencing just as much as without armour. Just going for the straight up attack in any of these disciplines is indeed likely to get you killed.

@TheCompleteMental

4 жыл бұрын

I did mean armed combat, as I tend to see counters(like a master cut, defending and attacking at the same time) praised as the ultimate move I also did not mean going on full attack, moreso a defensive move that puts you in a position to attack. That's why I said it flips the adage on it's head, instead of a great offense being a good defense, it's the exact opposite way around

@bobu5213

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheCompleteMental My point is that that happens regardless of whether the individuals are in armour or not.

@flintrocks

4 жыл бұрын

Personally I have found some of the more aggressive german fencers in HEMA to have a bit of an unrealistic style, atleast in the tournaments iv watched. They are often so hyper aggressive, I think in a real fight with sharps it would be impractical simply due to risk of injury.

I am really enjoying these short-format instructional videos!

Thank you for this great video !

Wow this is absolutely amazing!

Very interesting ! Keep going !

Awesome!

Very Cool, Thanks

2:06 These camera angles were great!

Nice video! Super-duper quality and the Trainers have my respect for beeing supernice and friendly, short and clear. Im my humble opinion: A clear, short and fruitful video! note: With THAT presented Schielhau (pretending to fence and teach "Bloßfechten" and "Meyer-System" for years) I predict my students: "good-bye fingers - hello pain - goodbye respect."

Black Horse Feders! nice. Playing with the fancy toys!

Style baby , absolute style.

Oh I already knew a vast variety of intensely interesting things I could do from wrath but THESE were new! xD

I think the reason we don't see this guard to often is because you can do all of the things you showed with Vom Tag on the shoulder, too. You could argue that one of these guards is nothing but a derivative of the other though. Vom Tag on the shoulder is closer to the enemy and it just feels a lot safer. Especially when you think about performing some single time counters you really want to be quick. If my opponent has a good Vorschlag I would think about Zornhut twice. An interesting thing I saw from Zornhut and some of the only instances I saw it in tournament was when someone used it to draw the opponents attention to the upper oppening, but actually the guy geiselt and hit his opponent on the knee. Didn't work another time though.

Awesome video. I cant wait to get a practice sword and join a local HEMA community.

@warfilgames

4 жыл бұрын

Join a club before buying a sword. You'll get the feel for the art and they Will be Able to help you bij the right sword for you.

@gaboderflinger7854

4 жыл бұрын

warfilgames That’s a very useful advice.

More like these please

I really like the idea of this guard.

the primary cuts with the germans are using the shoulder as the centre of the cutting circle not the elbow, the zornhau is a big scary powerfull from the shoulder, arms go out to the side a little, high and then descending downward in a big circle, similiar to bowling a ball in cricket, the most powefull strike that anybody naturally does when they really want to hurt someone, when you want to cut them in half, not throwing it out like a pitcher in baseball from the elbow. the english called the wrath strike a bown right blow, what you show here, bringing the elbow forward first, then cutting they called the quarter strike. two different cuts.

Love this, I do some kendo and kenjutzu and most of these are similar techniques in principle....but the foot work and posture is different....we can learn a lot from each other. Planning on joining a HEMA club after this shitty virus is done, and connect with my Germany heritage

Sensacional

So basically everything you can do from oberhau.. I get the point but I think zornhut might have some different uses given the much greater generated power.

Não entendi uma palavra mas gostei muito. Obrigado

Are there any particular advantages to the Meyer Wrath guard over the earlier period High guard? I may be getting too pedantic, but it's interesting to me that the two guards for the same techniques are different.

@sethdusith6093

4 жыл бұрын

It's a cultural difference is all. No need to over think it. The way we learn it now is not the same as they learned these techniques in their time

@nicopetri3533

4 жыл бұрын

What high guard in particular are you talking about?

@thebobbytytesvarrietyhour4168

4 жыл бұрын

@@nicopetri3533 I'm specifically thinking of the Von Danzig manuscript, but any of the earlier masters that have the point up and behind.

@nicopetri3533

4 жыл бұрын

@@thebobbytytesvarrietyhour4168 so Vom Tag on the shoulder? Yeah. I had the same thoughts. I would go as far as to say that you can do all those things from this guard and you are less exposed. The whole point of wrath guard is to be exposed and provoke your opponent, but I don't like it. Yeah you can do all these techniques, but you can do them from Vom Tag too. The only difference I see, is that Zornhut has a lot more power in its cuts. But it's slower, so yeah. The videk misses the point why Zornhut isn't used a lot. It is not that you can't do anything from it. It is more like there is a safer and much more comfortable position, so of course we use that guard.

Oh and the schietelhau done properly will split your opponents skulls, and at least incapacitate them if not out right kill them, it is not a love tap, I have cleaved many a pig bone using it and broken a blade on a post using it.

I predominately practice Italian school. There are many things that translate between the two schools, but I was curious what good resources are there for specifically Fiore Dei Liberi

@friendlyjester8482

4 жыл бұрын

I think Fiore was taught by German masters, so that could be it. I don't know that for sure though

@jeetyrrell

4 жыл бұрын

Check out Devon Boorman and Guy Windsor. They both have online classes in the Italian tradition.

@nicopetri3533

4 жыл бұрын

Look for "the exiles" for fiore youtube content.

I dont know what techniques you‘re showing .... i learned them quite different. Especially zornhau means: step forward, strike and step the opponent with your sword to the face oder upper Body. We took the techniques from Johannes Liechtenauer ...

@nicopetri3533

4 жыл бұрын

You really should know all of these techniques, if you do Lichtenauer. Sure their interpretation might differ, but in essence it is simply the play of the wrath, the shielhaw, the thwart and the krumphaw. Interpretations differ. I wouldn't get to fixated on the steps, fighting is chaotic, and so are your steps. Of course you can't disregard it at all. I for example tend towards a wrath hew interpretation where you don't step at all.

All of these techniques are very fine indeed. But I need to know how to slay a dragon and save the princess. What technique do you guys have for that ?🤔

Sorry if I sound ignorant here, but isn't the last technique shown similar to something called 'Doubling'?

@HEMASimian

4 жыл бұрын

That's exactly what it is :) Duplieren is the German word for it

@CrazyJay-sn6ri

4 жыл бұрын

Ah, okie dokie. I was wondering, because I've seen similar things like that when binding and such. Thank you.

@DamonYoungYT

4 жыл бұрын

Nice, thank you. For what it’s worth, it’d be helpful to see the techniques repeated once in slow motion after they’re demonstrated.

ok!! So this is Guts' stance from Berserk!!!

i want to find medium armored fighting techniques, I just cannot fight without armor, each hit throwing at me I stugger and try to avoid it and basically take hits, but if I have forearm armor and breastplate and helmet, it gives so much confidense I just parry attacks with forearms and engage without any hesatation into grappling and then can either throw opponent on ground or stab them on gaps, but I cant find any videos or manuals on medium armored fighting, not fully armored with plate and mail everywhere, but like breastpalte, helmet and most importantly some forearm protection (I find it extremily good for protection). But maybe I cant find anything because it was unlikely that some soldier would have breastplate without mail and if you have mail, sword dont do much to you? Spears are still scary even with that kind of protection cause it often goes not where I expect, like someone may feint arm and then go face or legs.

@GreatOldOne999

4 жыл бұрын

Swordfighting is mostly unarmored. No reason to fight with a sword against an armored opponent. You gotta train and learn to tank a hit with no armor on. People in HEMA usually wear padded jackets for this purpose, with armored gloves and heavy masks. You are safe in those yet you can practice like you had no armor on.

@gaboderflinger7854

4 жыл бұрын

So you’re the rogue type, I also find easier to clinch and get closer, being outside or in the effective range of a sword makes me shivers with no protection. Even tho is absolutely unorthodox, I feel more comfortable using two parrying daggers. It’s funny how everybody has a preference, I kinda suck with the long sword and it’s been years since I practiced “HEMA” or whatever was that fencing we did with my friends lol

To start with, my "sword" is a broom handle, the nearest sword fighting school is a couple of hours from me and it's Olympic fencing, and I try not to talk to anyone ever, so the extent of my experience with HEMA is against my imaginary friend, and even he annoys me. Now that it's clear that I have no idea what I'm talking about, and might be marginally insane, I have a question about wrath guard. It seems like it is extremely vulnerable to the unterhau from either direction. Is this an accurate assessment?

@Ashes42g

4 жыл бұрын

It’s not particularly vulnerable to the unterhau. The hands back position combined with fast high cuts outranges unterhaus quite effectively.

@nicopetri3533

4 жыл бұрын

Unterhaus are not too good to open an exchange. They have shorter reach than oberhaus. Though you are right that you are very vulnerable. It is the point of the guard. It makes you open, so someone can attack you. I personaly don't like it very much. You more or less give your opponent the Vor and a simple durchwechseln or feint can fuck you up. Very similar regarding the techniques they showed, but a lot easier to use is a Vom Tag on the shoulder. You don't generate as much power, but you are faster in the bind.

No mention of the Schwartz Technique...

Finally I know what the German means

They should make a realistic game about hemas variety.

But what if they have a gun?

@anton.chigrinetc.96

4 жыл бұрын

End them rightly.

this awkward moment when zornhut is the only stance you use

are we going back to the future, sword fighting or smth? hmmm

Interesting and educational, but maybe you should have googled the pronunciation beforehand.

I think that "Strike" would be more appropriate translation for the word Hau

@silentkiller2mm

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, "Hauen" in modern German is more something among the lines of "punching" and sounds blunt, but back then it somply meant "striking". In a swordfighting context, you might also translate it with "slash". On another note; they translated "Ort" with "thrust", but "Ort" just means "point of the sword" (on in modern German simply "place", most Germans wouldn't even know that it once meant "tip" or "point"). "Stich" would be "thrust". Translating old words from another language to modern English words is kinda hard. (or the modern version of said language too!) EDIT: A modern German word for "Hau", as it used to be back than, is "Hieb". It's usually used in a medieval context in novels or even more so in RPG games. Also, sorry for the long tangent on your comment, but it seemed appropriate.

@kamilszadkowski8864

4 жыл бұрын

​@@silentkiller2mm It's actually an interesting read. I did learn some German back in school so it's always nice to learn something new about the language. We have a similar word to "Ort" in Polish which is "Sztych" with that difference that Sztych can mean both "point of the sword" and thrust, depending on the context.

@MrSam1er

4 жыл бұрын

@@kamilszadkowski8864 Wrong chanel if you want some context ;D

@kamilszadkowski8864

4 жыл бұрын

@@MrSam1er Careful. If you repeat context three times in front of the mirror with a sword in your hand you can summon Matt through time and space.

@AR-GuidesAndMore

4 жыл бұрын

@@kamilszadkowski8864 "Sztych" and "Stich" seem similar interesting. "Stich" beeing german for thrust as well.

you afraid me with your thumbs position...

Why go barefoot? Is it safe? If someone drops the sword, that might injure other's toe.

@erwinli6962

4 жыл бұрын

A shoe doesn’t provide much protection against that either. The simple solution is to not drop swords

Nothing against you fine swordplay proponents, but that pronunciation of the German sets my teeth on edge and makes the video much less worthwhile for me. I realize this is my problem, cheers.

Oof.. U rlly gotta practise how to pronounce German words, its painful if u know how they actually souns like... 😂

Your foot work is crap, look at the illustrations the feet are pointed away from the opponent and you nearly turn your back to them, you can generate a load of power using this manuever.

@nicopetri3533

4 жыл бұрын

To make this nearly useless guard even more useless. Great!

Your video is interesting, but your German is atrocious. Such disregard detracts from the value of your content.