The UMC's bishops are lying when they claim that they are "people of God"

I really appreciate Pastor Jeffrey telling this story. When churches and businesses operate like the U.S. Congress, it’s time to get out.

I thank God for many things regarding the disaffiliation process from the United Methodist Church. First, you, Jeff Richman, were sent on this mission to us to provide clarity and openness to what has been occurring. Second, I'm thankful for a local Conference that allowed a realistic ability for our Church to leave a denomination that has, in reality, left us. Finally, I'm thankful our Church and Pastor chose to remove ourselves from this denomination that, in my opinion, is headed in the wrong direction in so many ways. Hearing your experience only reinforces my beliefs and the direction we have chosen. These shenanigans (my kind word) of the UMC will only serve to weaken it further as time goes on.

Not a Methodist, but find your channel and content both fascinating and sad. Praying for both sides, but 100% think I’d love to be a part of any church you are part of. Your humility and tone of relating your opinions and recounting of the issues shows your love of Christ and the Bible. Praying for you brother.

I left the Methodist church in 2016 when my pastor said the following at sunrise service “ we don’t know if the resurrection was spiritual or physical because WE WERE NOT THERE! I’m now a member of Presbyterian PCA

@plainspokenpod

2 ай бұрын

Yeah...shameful...

@myownlittlehouse471

22 күн бұрын

As Paul says, if we do not believe that Christ was raised, our faith is in vain. We might as well go out and live like the world. My husband is a PCA pastor. I have watched the happenings in the UMC with great interest because my father was part of the Presbyterian split in the early 1970s, when the PCA was first formed.

In Oregon , MO our UMC was steered against disaffillation by the pastor. Then voted 50 to 22 to stay in UMC. Several of us have left this church!!! Shock and disappointment filled us but we rise in believing we are standing with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit!!! Searching for a new church.

@wanda520

2 ай бұрын

Try Presbyterian PCA

Similar experiences. I was surprised how unprepared the UMC leadership is to engage and often unwilling to listen and reason.

Excellent, sincere presentation Pastor. May God continue to bless you and your family as you share the truth with those otherwise denied the truth.

I was very interested in listening to this video. First, I have known Bishop Nunn since we were in college together over 40 years ago. I, too, have been puzzled by what I have heard/read about how he has operated as bishop, particularly in the OK Conference. Second, a couple of reflections on the process: it is accurate that he could have "fired" you or asked for your credentials as a Licensed Local Pastor. A LP only holds that license when appointed and a bishop is under no obligation to appoint a LP to an appointment. So if he terminated your appointment, your licensed would also be terminated (see Paragraph 320). One could possibly appeal that in the grounds that such action was taken for unjust reasons, etc. But it would be an uphill battle. On the other hand, if I understand your description accurately that the other female clergy person you referenced was a UM Elder, that is a completely different story. A bishop has no authority to simple ask for her credentials. The only way she could be forced to surrender her credentials is if charges are filed and she is convicted in a church trial. Further, a bishop is obligated to appoint an Elder unless suspended for explicitly appropriate reasons (which do not include sharing opinions about conference finances) and can't even place an Elder unilaterally on involuntary leave of absence without an administrative review process and ultimately the decision by the Board of Ordained Ministry (see Paragraph 354). So if the Bishop did, as you describe, ask this Elder to "bring her credentials" in view of demanding she surrender them, it would be a very clear violation of the Book of Discipline. So what you describe, in my view, was definitely a bullying tactic. On another note, your description of how you handled the conversation, both the tone/attitude and the way you asked them to describe what you had done wrong and how to apologize for it was a very wise and non reactive way of approaching it.

@angelbonilla4243

10 ай бұрын

Licensed Local Pastors have very few rights. The lower chaste in the UMC.

@eileenthrift8259

10 ай бұрын

We are or should be aware of the fact that bishops often disregard what is in the UMC BOD. They do whatever they want and are offended whenever anyone questions it. It seems ironic to change kingdom to kindom when the bishops are behaving like kings.

@tommywilliams8729

8 ай бұрын

​@@eileenthrift8259k

I have two brothers in West Virginia, both have attended UMC churches there for years. Both have recently left their UMC churches recently. The situation in WVa, according to them, is quite alarming. The entire state, under their bishop, decided not to follow disaffiliation, but to wait and attempt to leave after the deadline, their bishop promising to allow them to buy back their properties. Apparently she has reneged on that promise. These churches are emptying at an alarming rate because of this deceit. I'm wondering if the WVa situation is perhaps the worst in the U.S.

Thank you for sharing.

God Bless You and Keep You.

Jeffrey, you set a good example for the rest of us, to stand up for what it right and not be intimidated by authority. Right is right, truth is truth. We need to stick by it.

This blunt, plain-speak is truly encouraging. However, I will state that this whole disaffiliation process has been terribly stressful for innocent, God-fearing Christians. Time after time, we have been blindsided and dismayed by new "instructions," arbitrary deadlines, the exorbitant "fees" assessed to churches with senior citizens on fixed incomes and the fears that we may be offending our beloved Savior in not staying with the UMC. I find myself constantly reassuring my dear brothers and sisters that we are NOT sinning in a terrible way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Our church is in disafiliation now and we should be through in December. We are a small community church. Our membership has continued to fall more and more. We are located in Mississippi. Our concerns of the direction to go afterwards and going with gmc are some of the same reasons we are leaving umc on the administrative end and being governed by bishops. I see the potential for similar problems down the road as the gmc grows. What is to protect the organization from similar abuses of power etc. ? It's like having ptsd and not wanting to go through this ever again! We are looking at other Weslyan based organizations or just being independent for now. There is a lot I like about gmc but I need to see how they handle this transition, how they manage finances, the bishops and mostly will they stay true to the Bible and Christian teaching which I believe they will. But initially, we as a church body, are nervous to commit to any organization. 😌🙏

May God bless you! You are a ray of hope in an evil world!

Leadership is better served when congregations are independent like they're supposed to be.

@myownlittlehouse471

22 күн бұрын

Not necessarily. It's the "top-down" method of governance in the UMC that creates all this mess. A "bottom-up method of governance, as you find in the Presbyterian church, can prevents SOME of these issues. But no system of church governance is without its thorns.

A good governance structure is never going to be good enough for God. I'm not acquainted with the UMC in any way, but this kind of story is mirrored the world over. May we turn to unity under Christ. For as long as it takes (and as impossible as it seems), we must pray that these divides be mended. Aim for forgiveness. God be with you.

I saw only 34 of 79 comments. Is there some reason, all were not available?

I was a DS in annual conference in the SEC. What I saw and how the bishop acted behind close door. It was not Christ like at all. The machine called the leadership of the church has no understanding of what Wesley wanted. The church to be Christ like. It’s save the institution.

@plainspokenpod

2 ай бұрын

It is a pattern we see reproduced throughout the different ages of the church: revival, building up of an institution, corruption of the institution, reformation. Each time it happens, more fracturing. For some reason, protecting the holiness of the church seems to be beyond us...

The Methodist church, like most churches has evolved over time. Issues like slavery, racism, divorce, a woman's place in the church have caused repeated splits in the church. The conservative church of years past limited a woman's place in the church, allowed slave owners to be ministers, had segregated services, and so on. The changing acceptance of homosexuality in society has caused yet another split.

@kurthaas4331

2 ай бұрын

It can be argued that everything before 01 May 2024 was righteous and in accordance with Scripture. The Bible specifically forbids homosexuality. It specifically defines marriage as man and woman. It specifically says sex outside of marriage is a sin. It specifically says that those who celebrate or condone sin and preach the same are apostates. This isn't some societal sin that's getting fixed. This is sin being condoned and celebrated.

@wanda520

2 ай бұрын

@@kurthaas4331It is unbiblical for women to teach men or rule over them. Feminism has destroyed the UMC

@alphonsotate2982

2 ай бұрын

Yes they are Gods creation open the church and welcome them in there is no room for hate in the church

@GilmerJohn

Ай бұрын

Don't ya know? Race segregation is now OK again.

@judycooper3442

Ай бұрын

​@@alphonsotate2982all are welcome, but that doesn't mean we should condone sin.

God bless you. I don't understand, really, any of the issues you're alluding to, but, I do understand the "post modern" or "left wing" influences that have infiltrated many churches. Keep your faith, and soldier on for The Lord.

Thank you for stating the truth. UMC seems to be more concerned with power and ownership than winning souls. So glad to be away from that church. I’m GMC now and extremely happy .

I fear The Ohio Western Conference of the UMC has blindsided so many parishioners. They’ve held the discussions on the higher levels and coached the Ministers and Deacons to avoid conversations. We have walked because our Church Board decided to not allow discussions. There are no GMCs near us yet.

I sadly left the UMC church. I was basically told I was mean by having biblical view of these things. Sadly there is not a GMC church in my area.

@plainspokenpod

4 ай бұрын

Unfortunately many have come to the conclusion that the UMC can only make room for Jesus and his message when it is nice...

God will not be mocked and many UMC Bishops and Pastors who are thumbing their nose at the Holy Scriptures will have to answer to God and will not find themselves in Heaven unless they repent.

Yes, let it go. Move forward .

@plainspokenpod

2 ай бұрын

Is this in response to something? You seem to be piggy-backing off of someone, but I don't know what your "Yes" is in response to. Are you saying I should let it go and move forward? I mean, I never really held onto it very hard. I offered it, not to air my grievance and exacerbate the issue, but to offer some clarity and strength to those who are thinking of challenging episcopal power. I feel like I was pretty clear on the purpose of the video, so I'm kinda flummoxed at what you have offered here...

What was it like to face a demon?

Judas was one of the twelve !

Many years ago I learned the UMC was mostly a money machine.

You got FAR bigger issues than money problems. That is a symptom. They have left their first love and dismissed the sovereignty of Gods word. They have turned into an apostate organization. Its very sad.

@wanda520

2 ай бұрын

Apostate is exactly the correct term

I had changed diagonal ..we switched cupolas

@judycooper3442

Ай бұрын

What does this mean?

Whether you id as GMC or UMC please respect each other, avoid judgemental pronunciations. We all love Jesus. The world is made up of differences from liberal to conservative. We should respect each other not hate. We should learn from each other

@plainspokenpod

2 ай бұрын

Definitely learn from one another. Definitely do not hate one another. However, there are serious ideological and theological differences between us that need to be spoken about in order to be understood and appreciated. If it is seen as a hateful thing to highlight these differences, or the bad behavior of any within those bodies, then I cannot agree.

I would have left as soon as they let women being pastors. Our churches are not follow the Bible. Jesus said in the last days this would happen

I wish to tell you, your expressed opinion(s) regarding the financial auditing practices of the UMC in Oklahoma are inaccurate, and the factual claims you attest to are incomplete. In other words, you just don't know what you don't know.. That is why you were ask to alter you statements. The incomplete audits were the due to the inadequate management practices of the previous Bishop. Bishop Nunn ensured that audited financials for the years in question were conducted by an outside accounting firm. These were made public. And as is every thing in the UMC, they were published for everyone to see. You should be sure your information is accurate and objective before you let the words pass you lips. My personal interactions with the Bishop and the Conference Cabinet demonstrated to me that these people were of the highest character and were at all time forthcoming and transparent in their deliberations and decisions. Some decisions and outcomes are certainly required to be confidential and on an "need to know basis". This is not a deceptive practice, as you have implied, but a normal accepted practice in any organization with the size and complexity of the UMC Oklahoma. The conference is religious organization, that uses normal and acceptable business practices to maximize the mission of the UMC in Oklahoma. I understand you passion, as the UMC seems to disintegrating, but I would ask that you improve your research in areas in which you have no expertise.

@plainspokenpod

Ай бұрын

I'm trying to make sense of your words. From what I can tell, the only substantial critique you have to my words is that I characterized the practice of financial opaqueness as deceptive? What specific wording are you thinking was wrong? I didn't make an argument about what was normal business practice. I just don't agree that the church should conduct itself like a business. You blaming Hayes is rich, though. It was under Nunn that the conference treasurer didn't reconcile the monthly budget for years before being quietly dismissed without a word. It was under Nunn's leadership that there was suddenly a huge shortfall with respect to the conference insurance plan that could never really be shown on paper. These are things I have firsthand knowledge of from folks with access to these people and documents. And it is NOT SUFFICIENT to say that people of good character are in charge. If one is not willing to show one's work, then it is right to question such a person. The days of trusting institutions are over. Those that persist into the next generation, except for maybe the federal government, will be those that are transparent and responsive to their people. Those that continue to practice obfuscation will continue to hemorrhage membership, and rightly so.

Bishiop?

@plainspokenpod

10 ай бұрын

Thanks for the correction! It has been amended.

@mafakefoot

8 ай бұрын

I appreciate your stand in Okla and all of UMC. I am so sorry . I was a lifelong member Episcopal Church. Majority of Bishops became Liberals yes but centered around the promotion and/or election of homosexuals.... not the Faith Please continue to Stand up and denounce what is contrary to Gods word and agreed upon handling of doctrine, money, and power. Episcopal church heresy began with election of female clergy proceded to same sex marriage then money politics then corrupts all. Just from what you said here. you are there it's over! 30 years ago our Dallas parish elected with every member to leave the Episcopal Church, we ask to be accepted by the Bishop of the then new Anglican Church in North America (ACNA) The Episcopaj Church "let us" keep our property but required a painful monthly rental tho we had no debt tto EC! Read also of the Church of England facing exact situation. I hope you with a young family can keep a continued ministry as you were ordained to do. I pray I have not offended, I commit continued prayers for all. I must pray for the new GMC as the most likely to succeed with less trauma for clergy and laity who follow them Amen

I sure wish your style was to get to your point, presumably of sprcific subject-matter Global Methodist interest and preferably in no more than half an hour. I want to hear what you have to say on topic, but not have to piece it together after you've spent an hour rambling about context, supposition, hearsay and process. You are an intelligent man. Consider that you have 15 minutes to convey your point and 5 minutes to support it. Then summarize, pray and sign off. God bless.

@plainspokenpod

10 ай бұрын

No

@mikehunter6975

10 ай бұрын

No

@eileenthrift8259

10 ай бұрын

You misspelled "specific."

@lukeony017

6 ай бұрын

Agreed. I will not watch any youtube video longer than 25 mins. Don’t have time for that. Be concise & shorten your videos or you will only reach a fraction of the viewers.

@raharley1

2 ай бұрын

Don't change a thing, Pastor Rick. Some of us NEED the explanations and background of these issues.

I continue to notice how much I enjoyed your earlier videos. Now it is clear to me that prior to your leaving the UMC you were apparently trying to appear to be more helpful, now you are just hateful towards the UMC. You have disappointed me to no end. You are out of the UMC now, and I am happy for you that you are now a GMC pastor. You cannot seem to let go some of your pent up feelings. This is like a divorced spouse that cannot get over the split. Continuing to attack the UMC will not help you and all your energy producing this many videos focused on inter-church issues within a denomination THAT YOU ARE NO LONGER A PART OF, simply show that you could be spending so much more time helping your GMC church(es). The anger and bitterness is just over the top, and really you just luck hung up and hateful. Move on brother, start spending all this effort reaching people for Jesus. If you can't refocus on that, then your congregation(s) need somebody else in the GMC to care more about them than hating on people from your past.

@plainspokenpod

10 ай бұрын

I think you are projecting yourself on to me. If you watch the video, you will not see much hate or resentment. It’s more bewilderment. You are the one who seems to have the energy for conveying nastiness. You are hereby invited to move along, sir. Goodbye.

@bradgreen4397

10 ай бұрын

Keep fooling yourself. When you move on from hating on the UMC, i'll move on from questioning your motives@@plainspokenpod

@eileenthrift8259

10 ай бұрын

Free speech. I disagree with your comments and opinions.

@michaelhoback3890

10 ай бұрын

I agree with this Brother. We need to focus on Love and less on hate.

@tondolnative7270

8 ай бұрын

@@plainspokenpodYou were given the freedom to leave the UMC to create a new denomination. I would have expected that you and others who are now members of the GMC would focus more on how you can bring people to Christ. But what I have seen so far from you and your fellow GMC has been spewing hatred and judgement on the UMC who chose to side with love and compassion, which, I believe, is the embodiment of Jesus’ life, teachings, death and resurrection. Where is grace and charity in all of these judgement against the UMC? Jesus said, “the world will know they are my disciples by their fruits.” I hope and pray that the GMC will bear fruits of the Spirit so that the world will know you are Jesus’ disciples. However, with all the judgments and self-righteous that that GMC folks continue to proclaim (instead of the unconditional and forgiving love of Christ), I am doubtful the GMC will bear fruits that show they are Jesus’ disciples. Lastly, sadly, many profess themselves as Christians, but are not Christlike.