Before you guess: Motor is a Baldor L1509T www.baldor.com/catalog/L1509T It has about 10 hours of run time and has been stored inside over 10 years. It ran fine in it's current location with it's current wiring 6 months ago. kzread.info/dash/bejne/nKp7k6hpgsuwXZc.html The generator is Kohler 10k kzread.info/dash/bejne/pH-czpqgYau6aNo.html

@Sailingon

2 жыл бұрын

Caps can fail with age and no sign of failure without testing.

@keysersmoze

2 жыл бұрын

What model is the "soft start"?

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sailingon OK so what are the odds you think they’re no good?

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

@@keysersmoze 52 amp I think. It shows it when it starts on the previous video.

@Sailingon

2 жыл бұрын

It's a relatively cheap fix and if it's not them you have spares for when they do fail.

Another example of SV Seeker persistence and ingenuity!

Thanks for showing the amount of effort to turn the compressor, that now convinces me the motor has a problem. Many years ago I was involved in a grain drying job with a split phase 400v motor. It had start/ run and was a pig to get going, up to 30 secs on start before it would run. It did in capacitors regularly, of which there were 15 . One day it started at about 20rpm and started to heat up and drip solder ! We replaced the motor and the difference was amazing, it started in 5 secs and ran happily for many years. It had been a duff motor from the start and maybe yours is too.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

The motor with 10 hours is the problem? : )

@rl3898

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker Yup really think it has. That is not unknown .

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

@@rl3898 Excellent. Lets have a little wager on it. Name your bet.

@rl3898

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker Ok Doug I'm game for that. $20 says there is a fault in the motor, capacitors or wiring of those parts which is making the motor such a poor/rubbish starter. I hope I'm correct so you get the system you want working.

Capacitors can still be bad without any signs of leakage, they can degrade so that the capacity is below what they are rated at go short circuit or open circuit, still a good idea to check them. As the electric motor would not start on its own even without a load without the soft start device there has to be one of two things wrong the motor has a short or you have a severe mismatch of electric motor to generator. That compressor is still starting under load even with the discharge pipe open, the large cylinder compresses its charge into the intermediate cylinder and that one does the same into the final cylinder the only cylinder which is discharging to atmosphere is the final one.

@johnpalmer5131

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, I agree that the capacitors could be bad. this is a a common problem with compressor motors in HVAC systems. Google air conditioner capacitor testing and it will show how to confirm whether your compactors are OK.

@ScottCalkins

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed, check those capacitors closer. One of your multimeters should have a way to test them.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

In a motor with 10 hours?

@jhlittleelect

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker i have see them brand new out of the box be bad. All you need is a meter to check them with, should be + or - 10% of rating marked on them. Also you may use a gm ac clutch on motor.

@Equiluxe1

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker I have had duds right out of the box.

Your perseverance is both amazing and inspirational!

@omantoodle2437

2 жыл бұрын

He’s the greatest

I agree with others in that I have seen MANY capacitors on AC that weren't swelled up, not leaking, but didnt work and tested bad - only takes a second to disconnect, short out (to discharge), and ohm those out to see what you have, Capacitors are cheap like under $15 ea.......

@Equiluxe1

2 жыл бұрын

The capacitors being across the windings will discharge as soon as the power is off.

@tommystone7327

2 жыл бұрын

And be sure to check the new ones before installing them. I’ve gotten new ones off the shelf that were bad.

@MrRay3801

2 жыл бұрын

I will second the fact that I've seen numerous caps that looked just fine but were actually no good. You HAVE to check with meter. And buy spares....capacitors don't last long in hot environments. Also, a weak capacitor will burn up that motor over time.

@mySeaPrince_

2 жыл бұрын

I would electrically check the windings, the capacitors and any switches, terminations and wires... also take the motor and connect it to land mains and see how it runs .. film at high speed then slow down on computer and see if it judders... Something weird I found years ago... was a simple small electric staple gun doesn't like working on a generator even a 4kw ... Another solution is to bolt the compressor to the main engine... (Which I will be doing, air tools much safer with water and carbon fibre) or a hydraulic motor...

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

In a motor with 10 hours?

Cool! Love seeing the thought process! Great Video Doug, thanks!

I see a lot of comments about capacitors. My first thought I said out loud when you lifted that cover, "Why is one of the capacitors different from the other two?". Inductive reasoning points to the theory that someone has been performing repairs before you ever removed that cover. Jack of all trades, Master of none and I never claimed to be a wise man. Thanks for the inspiration as always! I'll take that $12 patron bet that you will get scuba tanks filled regardless! 👍

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

Start and run capacitors are different sizes. I think run capacitors are smaller, so likely 2 start and 1 run. That motor has less than 20 hours on it. I think I heard to whimper as I opened her up. And thanks for the support.

Fitted that soft start to my mates fairground ride. job went well. thanks for that last posting Doug, it helped a lot....

Great work

Wisdom is earned

The lack of startup torque points to a start winding circuit failure. Could be a capacitor or the centrifugal contacts in the motor. In the video, I didn't hear the "click" that most single phase motors make when the start contacts open. Check the capacitors, take the motor to the shop, or better yet take it apart and see what's going on inside. That would make a good part 4. Enjoying your vids!

@mndodd

2 жыл бұрын

I have an old 1950s compressor with this exact problem and exhibited the same symptoms. I got it cheap because the PO was done messing with it. A little work with a points file on the inertia switch and it's working like a champ.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

In a motor with 10 hours?

@mndodd

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker Bathtub curve? I'd verify inertia switch and caps.

I’m all for the vfd, the options and versatility they offer has solved my problems in the past.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

The VFD is not that pricy. Until it needs to come with a 3 phase motor.

Been watching you for a while now, and I was hoping for an update of getting that boat in the water!!

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

Tuesday

You will have it now!

I just learned alot Thanx

I have had start capacitors that looked good and not leaking but were in fact bad. Johnstone supply will have them.

The more I watch this... the more it why I hate rework and sets as a great reminder to do your homework first. Many hours could have been save for other projects had some minor book work been done first.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

It's just that I have so little respect for people who's only solution is to go buy exactly what you need rather than making use of the donations and bargains offered to them.

VFDs are cool! At work I bought an instrument that's powered by single phase 208V (one leg of industrial three phase) and uses a VFD to power an integrated three phase vacuum pump.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah. We have on running the davit hoist. kzread.info/dash/bejne/m5-o1JacmpSnqqw.html

The soft start may be able to be your timer. If it has a contact output for 'motor at full speed' use that for your clutch engagement.

@curtstacy779

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, your right they usually do have that. I don't think I've seen one without it. good idea!

Doug, I have run petrol driven compressors when I was teaching diving in Mozambique. It was a Bauer with a 7 or 9hp Honda. Very noisy also a hot fill off a comp will drop by the next day when the tanks cool down. And in truth you can't just walk off and leave them TBH Yes your diving might only be once in a while, (it might not) but when I worked in Egypt the compressor's were above deck with fitted tarpaulin covers when not in use. I think you should run some shore power to it and see how it all work out filling and so on as it is a thing you just can't mess with when....I have seen ruptured tanks and was a LUXFER cyl test tec for quite a while. All the best.

Hi Sir, Unfortunately you are over engineering this. It must have worked at some time. It very common for the "kicker capacitors" to dry out over time. These provide the third phase to set the direction of the motor. Most AC motors are in fact 3 phase with kicker caps to set the direction. Just change these and it will run. Or use a VFD to create 3 phase and feed this in where the caps feed in. You need to understand if it will then be star or delta wired 3 phase motor but that's quite easy to measure. If you don't replace the caps or drive it three phase the coils will over heat and burn out.

@curtstacy779

2 жыл бұрын

He's not over-engineering anything the generator doesn't have enough amperage to start that motor. but it does have enough to run it after it is started. so get the motor through starting any way you can then run the compressor.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

I'm over engineering? So you want me to buy a 3 phase motor and a VFD? And that is better? : )

@davidsalisbury4290

2 жыл бұрын

@SV Seeker try new caps ; they are cheap and easy to replace. I use the cheap Chinese VFD such as the HY03D023B all the time as they give soft start, reverse, speed control, high torque start etc. They are complicated to program though. So probably over kill I just like them on the animation I do for flexibility.

@davidsalisbury4290

2 жыл бұрын

@SV Seeker the motor you have is three phase motor, the caps provide the 3rd phase. Try changing the caps as 1st step as they are cheap and easy to replace, and a common failure. I use the cheap Chinese VFD such as the HY03D023B a lot on big animation. As they provide soft start, reverse, high torque start on top of variable speed and a way to get 3 phase from a single phase. You are right it's over kill but gives flexibility.

@curtstacy779

2 жыл бұрын

@@davidsalisbury4290 He's already proved it's not the caps didn't you see the motor running?

After years of pulling my hair out over finding tools that are powerful enough to do heavy steel work that are that magic trinity of - (1) Single phase (2) Don't trip a breaker every 5 minutes (3) Don't cost more than my car - I finally just did what I had always wanted to do anyway (but always assumed was expensive or unreliable) and started buying VFD's and used 3 Phase tools. I can't tell you how exponentially better this has been than anything else I have tried. In every way. No lack of power. Reliable. Precise. Very affordable. My only regret is not doing it sooner.

@poprawa

2 жыл бұрын

Just imagine all the grid points being connected to three phase power :> Even cheapest motors in Europe are dead only after bearings are done and there is just no way to rotate freely

Hey don't forget. Everyone can find almost anything dirt cheap at the scrap yard like the step pulley's (you mention) from old belt driven drill presses/vertical mills. Also an idler pulley from a tractor trailer motor and a diesel AC electric clutch.👈🤓Some times it doesn't need to look pretty it only needs to work. Doug keeping busy. While he waits. Hey look at it this way you'll have more time to plan and !ENJOY! the water because you've got less stuff to finish. 😉👍

Doug when fault finding do not get blind sided by it looks OK (capacitors) or the motor must be OK it has only done 10 hours - those sort of assumptions are best confirmed by testing (if you are not testing you are guessing). Marine Engineer for 34 years and I have lost count of replacement parts (new) that were duff on receipt.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

I got it the first time. : )

@normanboyes4983

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker In my defence, with so many subscribers and folks making comments I could hardly be first to post.😉 It was offered though in good faith and born of personal experience of being blind sided - infallibility is an elusive quality.😀👍

Usually the compressor is unloaded through the interstage bleeds. Some compressors this is a manual valve to bleed off moisture (and pressure) after each tank fill. Yours may have a automatic bleed down. Usually on the output final filter, there is a a pressure valve to keep 2000-2400 psi on the filter so when you get air coming out the final fitting, the final stage is at least at 2400 psi. You have to bleed this stage down to get the compressor completely unloaded. Your control panel may take care of these operations. Charlie N

You have a capacitor start capacitor run motor. Changing the caps or having some for spare parts is a good idea. The caps are like a trainer for an athlete running around a track. The start cap will punch the runner to get him running, it will raise the potential or voltage to give a bigger punch. The punch is timed to the most efficient influence to get the runner to run. Once the runner gets up to speed the trainer doesn’t need to punch him as hard or as often to run. Generator voltage regulator could adjust up to 240 volt no load as well.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

I like analogies, but if you punch me when I'm running I'm going to stop and pick up a rock.

Hi Doug hello from Australia what you need is really a 3 phase star delta connected motor in conjunction with that soft start these motors have a 2 stage starting for cutting down the current when starting under load

Get a multi meter and check your start cap, also check the start cap through out switch. (on the end of the motor)

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

In a motor with 10 hours?

@ligarsystm

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker I have pulled bad stuff out of brand-new. But in any case it appears the startup is not working as it should. Likely either the gen does not like the start surge (voltage regulator field current limit soft trip?) or the start up on the motor is not working well as it should. I still like my VFDs 😎. But in any case good luck

@ligarsystm

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker After thinking about it... Do you have access to an oscilloscope? I'ed watch the waveform off of the generator and see what it does. The start surge may exceed the current limits of the fielding on the generator, this will result in excessive V drop. If you watch the waveform on the generator and if drops more than 10%? The load is too large to start. This momentary drop may be too short to see with a basic multi-meter.

@noahhuntersmith

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker I agree with the post below. My air compressor works fine on commercial power, but when the ATS moves it over to generator power it won’t start at all, even when the only load is the compressor. It’s a 150KW Cummins generator too…. I would check to see if your generator puts out clean power

I was on a Live-aboard dive boat that had a similar setup to yours with generator and motor driven compressor. When that motor started, it just about stopped the generator for about 1 second till the motor spun up. I would expect yours to do the same if the start circuit was operating correctly. I agree with some of the others who said the start circuit was not working. On another subject, I notice the air intake on the compressor appeared to take your breathing air right there at the compressor. The compressors I have used try to get the intake air from the freshest air available. Upwind or from high in the rigging. The location you have maybe fine as all the CO is expelled outside the hull, but what about a CO leak somewhere below deck or any other smell or hydro carbons present. Cooler, dryer air is better for your compressor. Something to think about.

3 phase and a star delta starter. old school but works.

Doug I believe the dynamics of the compressor will put a greater load on the motor when the compressor is pumping, especially when it is filling a tank and it is reaching it's max pressure. I know you dont want a 3 phase, they do put out more torque, DC motors start with high loads, it would probably be tough to source a DC motor that big. Test those capacitors, they can be your problem. Good luck with it.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

Motor is a Baldor L1509T www.baldor.com/catalog/L1509T It has about 10 hours of run time and has been stored inside over 10 years. It ran fine in it's current location with it's current wiring 6 months ago. kzread.info/dash/bejne/nKp7k6hpgsuwXZc.html The generator is Kohler 10k kzread.info/dash/bejne/pH-czpqgYau6aNo.html If you still think it the capacitors, I'll test them if you bet on it. You win, $12 worth of Patreon.

Yes, don’t make assumptions about your starter capacitors. Get someone knowledgeable to check them for you. That 7 HP motor shouldn’t have any problems what so ever starting that air pump with no load. Clutches and idler mechanisms just add more complexities and potential points of failure. Check your caps Captain.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

Can we make a bet?

@jukeman57

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker Not sure how good a poker player you are but if I could see your face I might. So the caps are in spec?

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

@@jukeman57 I have not tested them. But I know the motor only has 10 hours on it.

Completely forgot the clutch pulley idea. Haven't used one in over 30 years. Great idea. Take care Doug and thank you for the sunset.

use motor to accelerate a wheel with a lot of mass which uses balls out mechanism (centrifugal governor) to engage/disengage the compressor pulley

@allornothing7957

2 жыл бұрын

Twist and go clutch from a petrol scooter?

When's this bad boy going in the water

Vmac-like belt tensioner can just be unengaged with lever and locked like this. With shaft it would be accessible from front, it will nicely compensate for temperature and wear, can be even used to mount wrong belt

@poprawa

2 жыл бұрын

But motor refuses to start with any friction from belt, so this would need to be shitty implementation after all, just being universally repairable and simple are the cons

Gosh what a saga. If you have three phase that seems indeed like the simplest option. As you said, used motors are quite cheap. Add a star/triangle autostart relay or use that fancy softstart and you got boundles torque

Can't add a pic, but my thought would be an idler wheel as you say, but if you add an air actuated cylinder to pull in the arm it could be adjustable by air pressure with a regulator.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah that would work. Lot of parts, but it would work.

Every time I watch your videos I'm reminded of how impressive the human mind can become!! When you started this I have no doubt you were a very intelligent human being.. but now you could pretty much write a doctoral thesis on building a boat!! Yes it's been many years but you've been learning the whole time Hands-On which is much better than book smarts!! And the fact that you are doing this as a research vessel is absolutely Worthy of a Nobel prize!!!

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

Intelligent? Depend on the definition, but my grades where always below average and I read like an 8 year old. But it got grit. : ) I really think all of us a very capable if we find the things we love and apply a lot of determination. It might not get us to 1st char violinist, but at least we get to play some music.

Hey Doug, I would recommend changing your motor capacitors ,they should have no problems spinning up with load ,it needs the capacitors to start and it looks like you have one or even two failing to hold the amps to turn over smooth, it's like a engine with a misfire you would change the plugs well the caps are the same if all three are not good you get the same symptoms. Stay healthy, best wishes

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

In a motor with 10 hours?

@brianwood256

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker How old is the motor? And how was it stored? Someone appears to think that one cap was replaced already, the caps likely have a date code on them so pretty easy to check that. Cap test meters aren't expensive, you may have a VOM with that function already. And if you don't, you might find it easier to get one now than on the water. Testing will shut up much of the speculation on here. Great videos btw, it has been fun to be exposed to so many different crafts in your project.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

@@brianwood256 There are people who think the earth is flat too. ….and it runs fine on grid power.

@brianwood256

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker Saw that after my reply and didn't come back to delete it. It seems to be a quantity of available power issue, using your thought of a clutch will hopefully alleviate the start up loading.

Check the caps. Check the cap connections. If it can't start it blowing free, it has no chance with compression.

That was a lot of fun to watch!

I don't know if you solved the problem but I use snow mobile drives with a lever and lock.... or use a auto clutch drive from an ac compressor, just spit balling.

What is your full Run Amps on the motor at 3 phase ? if it is low enough you will have a lesser inrush to start the three phase motor rather than single phase with capacitors.. Also try an Air conditioning motor HARD START cap kit. Does wonders ! It quickly parallels with the existing caps. We use KICK START brand

Another lovely episode, thanks Doug. I’ve been an engineer for 25 years but you still make me realise that I’m far too blinkered when it comes to conceptual solutions. Well done, keep at it. Shame “you’re all gonna die on that boat” 😉😉😂😂😂😂😂

Using a 3 phase motor and single phase to 3 phase drive and normally open solenoid to unload compress and when an output from drive to turn on solenoid to load the compressor.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

We have 3-phase but only on the 8K generator.

@tommussington8330

2 жыл бұрын

ACtech makes some single phase to 3 phase up to about 5 hours iirc

I am going to agree with others…the motor has a problem. And, when I added a soft start to my rv a/c compressor, the start capacitor is removed as you no longer need to kick past locked rotor scenario…or something like that. Have the motor checked out.

That compressor looks like it has some of compression release like a big gas driven unit.

Those capacitors don't peak fluid unless they are punctured. They do swell sometimes when they fail, but you really have to check with a meter.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

Will you bet on it?

Hey Doug test your capacitors. I suspect one could be bad

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

In a motor with 10 hours?

@jeffreymurdock8366

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker I have seen it happen in brand new motors. Also you can put a little larger capacity capacitor in and use less power to start as long as it's the same voltage and type. Thats why you see hard start capacitors use on a variety of things including washing machines. Just 10 microfarad can make a difference

You didn't get the Warner clutch? They're pretty top shelf, at least the brakes I've used in the past on web converting equipment.

What’s the lock rotor amps on the motor starting that compressor

I calculated the 8kw generator to be 20 amps and a 7hp 3 phase motor is 16 amps but you will need double the amps roughly to start so that is not a good option either. you are on the right track for what you have.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

Wow. Finally someone that does not think I just have bad capacitors. : )

@curtstacy779

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker Oh no I agree with you! you got this. I left a comment on the last video with the calculation of the 10kw generator. she is right on the edge of starting the motor but she has plenty to run it. We'll show them! lol

@curtstacy779

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker Let me add one more thing. you ran it on shore power. so the only difference is the starting current you can pull. basic troubleshooting 101.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

@@curtstacy779 Yup. kzread.info/dash/bejne/nKp7k6hpgsuwXZc.html

@curtstacy779

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker There is another good comment I saw. he recommended that the soft-start should have a relay that turns on when the motor is started. you can use that for your clutch. I completely forgot they usually have those.

something's not right, you should be able to start that motor with an 8kw genset (should be able to provide 10kw for 10 seconds or so, 7.5HP is something like 5.5kw so I'm really not sure why you're having trouble with it).

@Gin-toki

2 жыл бұрын

While the motor is around 5.5KW, the current required to start it is significantly higher than when it's running under load. The motor acts more or less as a short when in stand still.

@KnightsWithoutATable

2 жыл бұрын

If it was 3 phase, yes. Starting a single or dual phase capacitor start motor takes a lot more energy because it is very inefficient when it is starting due to getting stuck vibrating in between the stator coils as the magnetic field locks into the rotor until the vibration becomes large enough to cause the motor to start spinning. This is the largest problem with induction motors that are not 3-phase. A DC motor would be able to start easier, but that takes a commutator, which wear out really easily, or a variable frequency drive to use a permanent magnet, DC induction drive. The electric clutch, since he found a supplier for one that would work, is the best option here.

@sharpx777

2 жыл бұрын

@@KnightsWithoutATable on a single phase motor you have a separate start winding, the extra phase for starting is generated by the starting caps with a centrifugal switch that disconnects the winding once the motor is up to operating rpm (or on the more fancier ones has a time delay solid state relay that cuts out) - is not vibration that makes it spin. With no load there is no way the motor should not start, yeah the current spikes on start but he's not tripping the breakers (the genset also has protection breakers that would trip if it's overloaded). EDIT: if a single phase motor does not spin on startup (like "vibrating" in place) but will work if you give it a spin by hand it usually means something is wrong with one of: 1. start winding, 2. caps, 3.centrifugal start switch - all that given you have enough voltage and amps to run it which that genset should be able to provide especially with no load.

Have you checked under the back cover to see if it has a centrifugal start/run switch? I’ve had those things stick in the run position. I’m sure your familiar with how they work but for anyone reading this that’s not familiar, some motors have start windings and run windings. Start windings along with start capacitor/s give the motor a big high torque kick to start things like compressors. When it’s up to speed some weights on a switch swing out and disconnect the start windings and connect the run windings. If stuck on run winding they can act flaky and won’t start anything.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

No, but you can hear it click in on the video.

Snowmobile drive clutches? Primary and secondary. Also, are you sure the motor is ok? It didn't sound good when started without the belt.

Hey Doug, check your capsicums! They leak fluid if they sit long enough in the fridge! :-)

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

That's in the video : )

Could you use a tourqe converter pull system

3 phase motor is the best option to go with.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

Dam! I got one in my back pocket.

I was wondering if a clutched pully, like is on my Jeep's AC compressor, would solve the issue. And then you went there. :-) I like it as a solution.

Good luck! My bet is on 3 phase motor VFD programmed for speed ramp up on starting as the ultimate solution. Or add a heavy flywheel to your generator.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

So what is your wager that the softstart and clutch will not work?

@keysersmoze

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker I saw the movie "The Sting". You might have already made it work. My wager is that I will order the VFD and 3 phase motor when it's my turn to run a motor.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

@@keysersmoze I like the skepticism, but it's also a cop out. $1 vs Nothing but your honor.

@keysersmoze

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker OK, not for honor but for a 50:50 wager. $10 or equivalent in beer or fast food. To be determined and settled when our paths cross. Not just that you get it to spin, but that it becomes your satisfactory solution to fill tanks.

@ryandenki

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker Wager? Just test it. Ten minutes then you can tell people if they're right or wrong. And if they're right, you will know what to fix. And if wrong, to look elsewhere.

Is there any way to unload the compressor at start then load it off?

I think a scuba tank fills up to 3000 psi. It takes a lot of time and electrical energy. The scuba tank gets hot . My home compressor gets hot and it only makes 120 psi.Some times it pops the breaker.I did have a capacitor fail, then it just sits there . Sometimes I hook up a fan to cool it. Then I go outside to watch the power meter spin.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

Some go to 5000, and yup,

A little "Zap" from a charged capacitor ??? Even a little one will "Rock Your Planet" !!! How long did I glow ???

How about giving us an update on the progress of getting the boat in the water.

That motor acts like it is 3 phase trying to start on single phase. I would expect you to have looked at the motor label to see what it is rated at in amps, voltage, and phase. I had an AC unit that would not start at run-test when I was at run-test repair. I put a hard-start capacitor on it and it ran. When I took the extra capacitor off it would not run. I found the problem was a wiring harness plug that had been clamped over the insulation preventing a connection. When I changed that wire, it ran great. Those kinds of situations are very hard to find to fix.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

Baldor L1509T and it runs fine on grid power.

It does sound like a centrifugal switch chattering however a centrifugal switch would chatter if there was another condition causing a hunt or surge to the load or generator. If a centrifugal switch lost spring tension (somehow) causing the flyweights to fly out prematurely (engaging the switch) before optimal motor rpm is reached....it could cause this. I forgot what I was thinking sorry

Didn't you have a motor that could make a 3rd phase or wouldn't you be able to just hook an auxiliary tank with a bleeder valve before the scuba tank to take some of the stress temporarily?

Is that vmac belt ribbed on both sides? If that's the case I'd keep a spare or two, that probably isn't easy to get lol

@brettcrocker2219

2 жыл бұрын

It's ribbed for your pleasure.

I see others saying the same thing I think - capacitors; black plastic are start capacitors, metal is run capacitor. Reasoning is start caps only used momentarily thus not subject to overheating unless relay sticks, whereas run cap coninutally adjusts phase and will heat up. A lot of multimeters have capacitor testor built in. Test them and make sure they are within 5% +/- label value in microfarad. Even 8%-10% low value can result in issues. Visual check might be okay but can't see oil level inside. Best wishes. SK

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

In a motor with 10 hours?

@ryandenki

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker That's been sitting in storage for 10 years?

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

@@ryandenki Yes. Originally purchased by a church to fill paintball tanks. Used once or twice then sold to my friend Rob's scuba shop and sat in the back till he made me are really good deal on it. kzread.info/dash/bejne/mJOft8yKisqbl7g.html

Sweet solution with the clutch. If that doesn't work out, is the air input to the compressor external to the hull? I would think you wouldn't want to pack those scuba tanks full of diesel exhaust. :)

@boblawblah232

2 жыл бұрын

I was just about to mention a clutch when I saw this comment. I hadn’t finished watching the video yet. Lol

looks like one of the 3 capacitors was replaced already, bet those others have gone bad and are causing your issue. The motor should easily start without the soft start and no load. At lease buy some to put on the boat for spares in case they are the issue.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

On a motor with 10 hours on it?

maybe put a valve you can open between stage 1 and 2 2 and 3 to take the load off if the pressures are not too high

When will you be launching this boat? Any updates on insurance?

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

Don't know yet.

Wot about a decompression on the air compressor ?

I think a 3 phase motor is what you need if you can supply 3 phase. You keep saying a single phase motor is a 2 phase. No it has 2 winding that give 120 volts and you get 240 from it. But the primary coming in is just 1 phase so you can only get single phase out. On that compressor motor you could put a big start capacitor on it but it could also shorten the motor life.

I would try setting the timer on the soft start very short. I'm not sure that the centrifugal start switch is going to like staying in for more than a second. It may actually make the starting current higher. In your situation with the generator I'm not sure the soft start is going to help much. What I see with soft starts on larger motors is that instead of a split second of super high current it spreads it out over several seconds. So for example on a 75 hp motor starting across the line you would see around 600-700 amps for a split second. So fast you really cant even see it on a normal meter. With a soft start you see 300-400 amps for a few seconds then it drops down to the normal 95 amps or whatever. Either scenario is too much for the generator on start up. All the soft start really does is spread it out over a couple seconds. I have tried to have really long start times on pumps with soft starts and it gets counter productive fast. Going too slow too long makes it worse. Have you tried different ramp up times? The VFD would be the way to go but you may still have issues with the generator running it depending on how "clean" the generator power is. The advantage to the VFD is the starting current will start out very low and gradually build as speed increases allowing you generator to "keep up" with changes in current. You can also use the VFD with single phase or three phase input so you have options on supply power. If you slow down the VFD you may even be able to run the compressor on a smaller generator. I would not use a cheap VFD on the boat. Look into KBAC VFDs--They have sealed waterproof units. How about getting a 5hp single phase motor (assuming the generator will run that) and just slowing down the compressor with a smaller pulley? The soft start and VFD are just more things to fail that may be difficult to replace outside of the USA.

Electric clutch on the motor is the answer .

What about a belt tension mechanism using a bearing you can use on a lever.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

Yup. Talk about that in this video, right?

Don’t want diesel fumes in near the air intake for tank filling!!

Is i starting with the compressor unloaded? in my experience most larger compressors have unloaders that keep it vented until up to speed.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

This is a scuba compressor. If you don't have any tanks attached then the air just blows past the reed valve on each head.

maybe your compressors stages starts to build up resistance once turning faster and loads your motor up too much to beable to speed up . I would disconnect the hose between the first and the second stage and see if it can spin up. if so you could put a pressure release valve between first and second stage and close it after it spins up. does it make sense?

@Copozeras

2 жыл бұрын

thet would be the sympliest and cheapest way to go about it too. I would like to see if it works

You show the compressor running previously. Was that running off the Kohler genset or off shore power? I really think the compressor and motor are fine and you have a wiring problem either in the genset or between the genset and the compressor. From the video on the Kohler, it is not possible to tell if it is a 3ph or single phase generator and whether you are getting 120/240 or 120/208. You can't tell if you load tested both/all 120V legs or only one and whether you tested with a 240/208V load. Good luck, I hope you figure it out without too much pain. It would be nice if you could be figuring it out anchored off Key West, huh?

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

Grid power using the same wiring pathways. And it’s a single phase generator that we have used recently to power the welders and plasma. I have little doubt in the fault being anything more than the failure of the generator to be able to supply the inrush current without the assistance of the soft start. It’s the perfect gadget for us.

Doug you make a thought mistake, even with no hose connected the compressor still builds pressure. The pressure is in the cylinders, held by the springs closing the discharge valves.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

Pretty sure those are just reed valves.

I believe that I purchased a clutch from extreme years ago. It was for a Club cadet zero turn. It was American made heavy duty and cheaper than original Chinese crap...

I there. I have been watching your boat build from the start. Just a question re your dive compressor. Have you considered fitting an unloader valve between the first and second stage? A solonoid valve there should handle the pressure and will give stage 2 and stage 3 very reduced loads on start up. Just a thought. Thanks for the videos!

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

The is so little back pressure I don't thing adding any more parts would be worth it. Did you see how easy it was to turn?

@stuartbrown2951

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker I did but if I recall it turned about three quarter of a Tim before it was under load. It could also be the the gen set can’t produce the current needed for start up. It can take up to 5 times the current when starting. Good luck and look forward to your innovative solution.

use a speed changing mechanism off of the bicycle instead of pulleys. i guess you can make one gear that just spins though if you want to stop it.

3 phase motor with VFD would be a superior option, also gives you finite speed options not just for start but also for normal run. Including overspeed. This single phase motor is way too hard to start with the current setup and will not work reliably. 3 phase motors also run more stable and have better torque output. Overall I feel like some relay in your setup falls off due to voltage drop and it all begins to oscillate with lights flickering on and off. Did you try to run the motor straight off the generator without all the shenanigans in the control box?

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, unless you had to pay for the new 3 phase motor. : )

Centrifugal clutch on the motor? When the motor gets to say 2000 rpm it engages the output. V-Belt clutches can be bought for under 100$

check your wiring and Caps, maybe the motor is bad three phase will kick ass Good luck

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

In a motor with 10 hours?

kinda surprises me that a 10kw genset cant start a 7hp motor with no load. have you thrown a clamp meter on that bugger to measure the inrush? another thought is that sucker acts like the capacitors are dead. maybe disconnect them and see if it starts the same? i'm not an expert by any means but something there just doesn't "feel" right if you get my drift. its been my experience those big ass motor caps usually dont leak but just short out internally. then you don't get the 90 degree phase shift and thet motor just thumps around like that.

@purpleom9649

2 жыл бұрын

I had the same problem on a large 1936 brook motor, it kept blowing the 13A fuse and when I put a 15A fuse in the plug it started like Doug's. I changed the capacitor and now it starts quickly and runs fine. My motor is a 12A @ 240v = 2880 W 2HP, I wish Doug would say what amps his motor is and what volts he is running it at.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

In a motor with 10 hours?

@MonkeyWithAWrench

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker it looked new but I didn't realize it was THAT new. I have no clue then. as long as it starts the same direction every time on the soft start then they're probably working. that would be the only tell tale sign otherwise. You're there and i'm not so i'll just follow your lead! :)

@MonkeyWithAWrench

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker good lord, i'm just reading through the rest of the comments. I think i'll look through them next time BEFORE posting to see if the input is at all helpful before chucking my two cents in. i think the first 30 or so comments covered capacitors. How the hell do you tolerate this? I'd blow a gasket!

Could a bank of capacitors help??

Seems like the motor has an issue, does it start when running it from the grid?

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

Yes

Just because the capacitors look good don’t mean they are check them with a mdf meter especially the start capacitors and definitely want a little slack on the belt also if you went the three phase motor way you would you would use half the amperage so the smaller generator could handle the load

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

In a motor with 10 hours?

@shitindawoodsbear2798

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker did you put 10hrs on the motor or is it heresay?

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

@@shitindawoodsbear2798 I know it’s history we’ll, but it has an hour meter too. I just can’t remember exactly what was on the meter.

You can run a three phase motor with single phase supply

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

We even have a video on it. : )

Great problem solving! Much cheaper to find a stock part that will work, instead of a custom order, great idea.

The start/run capacitor can go bad even if they "look" good, you have to measure the capacitance to be sure.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

How about a bet?

@kandk920

2 жыл бұрын

@@SVSeeker Why bet when you can just test! What can it hurt and will only take a few minutes of your time.

@kalyopi

2 жыл бұрын

A bet? What would a bet solve? I tough you want to to fix your compressor your compressor start. You want to bet on a issue that you know the answer, funny.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

@@kalyopi It quantifies your evaluation. And the risk involved makes it fun. Do you never take risk or evaluate the accuracy of your judgment?

@kalyopi

2 жыл бұрын

I have learned nothing from a bet, I have learned from doing things, opening things up se how they work or why they don't. l don't bet, I won't leave to chance what I can prove!

Have you tried starting the motor with shore power since you put it in the boat? I would advise you you run some mainline power in to the boat and try and start the motor with that just see if something has gone wrong and we're chasing down a rabbit who's not even in the hole.

@SVSeeker

2 жыл бұрын

Yes. Ran fine.

Automotive air conditioner clutch so any junk or scrap yard ???