Durability (on river) PVC and urethane definitely seem to be the way to go. I'm a big fan of the Aire double bladder PVC/urethane system. It's big and bulky deflated but it's hard to puncture even the outer tubes and repair is fairly easy. Inside tearaid works. Plus, like Urethane rafts, Aire Rafts seem to inflate harder for the same PSI and run more rigid. For deflated storage and transport you can't beat hypalon. It also resist temp changes better. I have to adjust/top off my tubes less often and in cold weather my tubes fold up vs my PVC raft which is a PITA early and late season to roll and store.

@GearGarageTV

4 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure if I'd agree that PVC is great for durability. AIRE boats are generally pretty durable but most PVC boats that are made overseas tend to have problems. Thanks for your comment.

@MountainVisions

4 жыл бұрын

@@GearGarageTV unfortunately, I think cheap glued overseas PVC boats have left a bad impression on people of what a PVC boat is. Quality welded PVC is a different story in terms of durability. I don't love all welded PVC, I'm not an RMR guy. All that being said, I honestly don't know how PVC holds up vs hypalon vs urethane in a commercial world where it's being exposed to tons of UV. There definitely are commercial outfitters and especially fisherman using Aire boats in the Northeast, but our season is relatively short compared to out west and our UV index/sunny days isn't always all that great. I still see mostly NRS hypalon boats from the majority of outfitters. With a smattering of everything else including Sotar, Maravia, and Aire.

Your content is elite. I find it interesting that there's not many channels that cover as much as you did

@GearGarageTV

4 жыл бұрын

I'm so stoked to hear you like the content. Thank you.

Zach, I appreciate your candid delivery. Thank you for the content. I'm a part of a few river cruise, but the main one all run hypalon... I'm the outsider with Moravia zephyr. Over the last 20 years, I'll happily take the extra time and effort and bulkiness of a rolled-up PVC with urethane coating boat, because the multi-day trips allow me to have more mobility and take bigger lines where the stiffness of my boat punches through holes with relative ease. Unless it was just to float up to class 3 water, I would always choose a stiffer rigged so that in bigger water I have maneuverability in the ability to push into the water.

Zach, I appreciate all the time and effort you put into these videos, I have been white water rafting primarily in Idaho, Utah, Arizona and a tiny bit in California for 40 years and I am amazed at how much I have learned from you. For about the last 15 years my boating group is about half hypalon and half plastic. I have noticed the plastic boats as you stated tend to flip more often than the hypalon boats. Rigging has been similar but take it is easier with hypalon. Plastic boats maneuver a bit better and are easier to row but hypalon "punches" through holes and waves better. Just my two cents.

What PSI do you run your Wings for high and low water? Just got my Williamson and its maiden voyage will be on the Middle Fork of the Salmon in 3 days. I'm planning to run the tubes super soft and the floor even softer. The tubs on this boat are Huge!

@GearGarageTV

4 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately I don't keep track of or even measure the PSI of the boats. Just keep it soft and if you're getting stuck let more air out.

What were the classic 14’ NRS boats made from 20 years ago? The company I guided for had some Hysides and some NRS’s. Both felt good.

Thanks for creating the video. I guide class III and what customers/passengers seem to like more than anything are waves crashing over the front of the boat into their faces. This seems to be the primary variable in how much they enjoy their trips and how exciting it feels to them. I like the performance and feel of the plastic boats but since they are stiffer but they tend to ride over waves instead of crashing through them and thus less face splashing. I know this is a rather obscure characteristic to analyze but it definitely makes a difference to passengers.

@GearGarageTV

4 жыл бұрын

If it's important to splash people more then diminishing tubed boats are a good idea too

@berrycrawford5579

4 жыл бұрын

@@GearGarageTV I've actually never had the opportunity to guide one.

Hypalon also holds up to UV much better than urethane. Hypalon is actually used for industrial roofing in environments that see highly variable weather. That should tell you something. Urethane welded construction is superior in terms of integrity. That said, I have a 40 year old Hypalon Riken made by Okimoto in Japan and the seams are still perfect. No sign whatsoever of glue failure.

Do you roll all your Hypalon rafts? When shipped my nrs was folded into thirds then folded into quarters ultimately rectangle shaped. Does it matter on a hypalon raft for storage?

@GearGarageTV

3 жыл бұрын

Yes we generally roll our hypalon rafts. I'm not sure if it matters for storage.

Episode idea: self rescue (getting you ass back in the raft) strategies and techniques

When I was buying my first new boat, I went with a hyside since I wanted a hypalon boat due to transport. I have to roll my boat to get them to and from the river, so that was the main determining factor. Plus, the first boat I had was a 40 year old Rikon bucket boat made out of hypalon, so I felt as if hypalon would still be durable enough to last me for 20+ years at my boating level. Easy to patch, easy to roll, and a significant price savings too. I am also fortunate that I have never had the experience of paddling or rowing a urethane boat. Maybe they are head and shoulders better, but I wouldn't know, therefore, I am still super happy with my purchase.

@GearGarageTV

3 жыл бұрын

I personally love both urethane and hypalon boats and the both have their advantages and disadvantages. The older AVON and Riken boats were very well made with bomber hypalon. I don't think the modern hypalon boats will last as long as those older hypalon boats.

@alanrobertson6389

3 жыл бұрын

@@GearGarageTV Why do you feel like the newer hypalon boats are inferior to the older ones? Was there a change to lower grade material, or is it due to manufacturing changes, delamination at the glue seams, or something else that you have noticed in particular? I am just curious, you're far more knowledgeable than myself. I am just a casual private boater, and I will never be able to put my boat through the same levels of daily abuse and river miles that an outfitter like you has. I don't really expect any boat to last 40 years, but I did get comfortable patching hypalon on my old bucket, and just hope to get 10-20 years out of my new one. Maybe by that point, I will have the money to spring for a SOTAR or Wing. Because price was also a major decider for me as well, but I couldn't bring myself to settle for a cheap pvc boat.

@GearGarageTV

3 жыл бұрын

@@alanrobertson6389 I feel the newer hypalon boats are inferior due to my experience and the experience of my friends. I own a bunch of NRS hypalon boats that we use for our Middle Fork trips and I like them but I don't feel they are the quality of AVON hypalon. I've been told that the older hypalon material was manufactured with environmentally poor practices. The newer hypalon material needs to follow newer environmental laws and therefor note as good. I'm not 100% sure that's true but that's the word on the street.

@alanrobertson6389

3 жыл бұрын

@@GearGarageTV That makes sense. I own a pinball bar, and operate pinball machines, and modern pinball machines have a similar issue with the protective clearcoats used on their playfields being much softer than they used to be. The cause is stricter EPA guidelines on the chemical additives leading to clearcoats that dimple out like an orange peel under normal playing conditions. It's nowhere near as good of a clearcoat, but also it's nowhere near as toxic either. I can get behind that. Thanks for the insight, love your channel and podcast.

Do you think that Urethane is “faster “ than Hypalon? Less drag or friction on the water? That seems to be my experience, but maybe other factors influence how fast a raft drifts. Thanks-

@GearGarageTV

4 жыл бұрын

I think stiffer boats are faster. Since urethane boats are more stiff they are likely faster. The drag on water has very little to do with the fabric.

Hyside to me is the best of both worlds. Lighter and easier to roll with the hypalon construction, but urethane coating on the high wear areas.

My experience has been that Urethane material isn’t as durable as hypalon boats. I’ve found that my 2007 Sotar has abrasions that leak, not even full cuts. Hypalon boats can be worn in to the base fabric and not leak. It seems that the top layers of material on Sotar material is responsible for air retention, and I don’t find that ideal. Not sure what brand I would go with next time, Maravia or Aire maybe.

@GearGarageTV

4 жыл бұрын

I'm sorry to hear you've had a bad experience with your SOTAR - I think they've had some problems over the years with certain fabrics and some of their manufacturing techniques. Of all the raft materials Urethane is the strongest and most durable. AIRE is a urethane bladder with a PVC shell. Maravia is a PVC boat with a urethane coating. Neither of those boats are hypalon.

@jaredlinkhart6528

4 жыл бұрын

I like the performance of a “plastic boat “, and coming from a childhood of watching Riken rafts age well, I had a high expectation for my Sotar. Sotar still makes a great product, and I’m a fan of their designs. Other than the abrasions, I don’t have much I would change. Two more D rings amidship for frame lashing, and frame chafes for sure. It’s a lite boat, and I really value that.

I have a bris raft. I use it un the american river. It's pvc. It was very cheap. Are these boats bad? 2021 13foot bris

@GearGarageTV

Жыл бұрын

They're not good

@theborg269x

Жыл бұрын

@@GearGarageTV how so?

Food for a private and commercial groups.... how to do it and the different ways of doing it...

@GearGarageTV

4 жыл бұрын

That would take hours

Oh boy, can't wait for the comments from the "experts" on this subject...... My question: What's the reason for not traveling inflated in Idaho but inflated in Oregon? Actually what's your opinion on both. I had an incident two years ago with rubbing a hole in my brand new cat boat while rolled up in the truck (no bag used, oops). Now I travel inflated however, altitude and air temps cause me concern with strapping them down.

@GearGarageTV

4 жыл бұрын

In Idaho we have our 22' sweep boat on our trailer and need to roll all of our boats. We also need to fly them into the river at times. In Oregon we don't run a sweep boat so the boats stay inflated on the trailer.

@gregeastwood5761

4 жыл бұрын

Good point with the altitude and temps. Large changes in altitude or temp can cause your boat to over inflate. Over time your seams will begin to leak and your boat will become a leaky, impossible to fix p.o.s. Also, I have seen catastrophic tube failures on the trailer a time or two...most common when unloading at the put in due to over inflation. At the same time, under inflation down a long bumpy road can cause some serious bounce, and-depending on how you have attached the boat to the trailer-can cause the straps to wear holes in your boat. Watch out for strap buckles- they can vibrate at freeway speeds and chew up your tubes also. There is no ideal solution. Unfortunately, a lot of the damage you see is in transport.

Ocean use flordia urthane vs hypalon

@GearGarageTV

2 жыл бұрын

Is this a question or a comment?