5:12 time to find sycra's NSFW art account

@rawr4799

3 жыл бұрын

He be drawing that anime cunny

@skylovermc2146

2 жыл бұрын

I love this guy more lol

@Eat_shit--die_mad

2 жыл бұрын

YES WHERE IS IT

Introducing: the sycra pyramid scheme

"I have aliases for different types of art." He could be any one of us...

@zantiquechm3960

11 ай бұрын

Dun dun duun!

In my experience it’s important to be in a community of financially “stable” people who are NOT artists to support a commission flow in the early days. Once your portfolio is pronounced enough it will bring new interest from outside of your community, but surrounding yourself with artists alone makes early support commissions a challenge. Good discussion man.

@marcoormeno1069

3 жыл бұрын

mmm that sounds nice, but i don't really have an idea of what kind of community may i belong, where i could offer my commissions, i mean, like a fandom of a game or something like that?, and why surrounding just by artists is bad for the business? that made me curious owo

@TanksExplosionsAnime

3 жыл бұрын

@@marcoormeno1069 Most artists are in the same position as you and a lot of artists would rather just draw what they want rather than commission it. As for fandoms I imagine forums, discord servers etc aren't a too bad place to start OwO

@skylovermc2146

2 жыл бұрын

@@TanksExplosionsAnime That is if they are into art. I’ve never met someone who wasn’t but who knows

'it takes about as long to become a decent artist as it does to become a doctor' Actually never thought of it that way but i believe it is true !

@bugrilyus

3 жыл бұрын

I dont think it is the same amount of work though

@sl4tra

2 жыл бұрын

@@bugrilyus depends on your definition of decent

@bugrilyus

2 жыл бұрын

@@sl4tra no.

@mibber121

2 жыл бұрын

@@bugrilyus which do you think is more work

When I was a teenager I did a few years where I charged like $5 for stuff and I got over 200 commissions under my belt. Now I'm at a skill level where I'm not really a entry-level or beginner artist anymore, and I already have all this experience in working with clients. I'm in a position where I can charge a fair bit more. Getting past the recognition barrier I think is just as much a matter of luck, proper tagging, being on the right platform and all these other factors as much as it is connected to your actual skill level. I found that it's been healthier for me to be open to commissions but not to rely on them for my self-worth or my bills. The luck factor in getting exposure took a lot out of me back in the day.

@zondwhomlovesjesus8444

3 жыл бұрын

What are the best sites to get noticed for getting comissions?

@Cantrona

3 жыл бұрын

​@@zondwhomlovesjesus8444 As far as I know Art Station and TikTok right now do pretty well. Instagram and KZread are the standard but they're pretty oversaturated and hard to get noticed on.

@crimson414

2 жыл бұрын

Wb discord? 🤔

@Cantrona

2 жыл бұрын

@@crimson414 to be honest I can’t really speak much on discord. I find it’s very much dependant on what sorts of servers you’re in and what the other participants on there are like. I can very easily see it turning into a Facebook groups situations where you have giant servers of just artists trying to sell and not many buyers but I could be completely mistaken.

@crimson414

2 жыл бұрын

@@Cantrona maybe you're right.

There is a point to where an artist can charge a certain price, and either overcharge or undercharge. Both cases hurt the artist. Worse case is that you can be at a skill level where you should be charging more, yet you don’t, which may have you working more, getting more jobs, but in the end not getting paid for your time. It’s never easy to raise your prices, because the clients can’t see the reasons why you did that. Overcharging can keep you from getting as many jobs, but if your skill level is good, you can either hold to those prices, not overwhelm yourself, or sneak your prices down to where you get more jobs, hence more pay. It is not easy knowing what to charge, except to weigh your art against those who are selling art at your skill level, and start from there. There are those who may think they need to charge way more than what is needed and wind up not getting any sales. Bottom line is this: don’t short change yourself. But also don’t charge a piece that makes you seem like you are “all that” because it could ruin your career. There is enough money to go around for everyone. 😊

Great video! In my experience, commissioners arent really looking for “the best artist they can get for their budget”. Cause what they want is more personal than choosing an artist for the “quality to price ratio”. So I think that the deciding factor is finding an artist you like, AND that they have a price tag that you are willing to pay for. (At least on the market section im in) As for pricing, I try to look at what other artists at my level charge and decide from there. But I still find arttists that are tiers above me in skill, AND are charging barely more than i do (and Im not charging a lot, I think) and yet I have people ask for mine. I always think “if you shill out a few more bucks, then you could get an actual piece of art from THEM...” So my theory as for why they ask for my work anyways, is probably one of these reasons: 1. A few bucks actually are significant enough for choosing me 2. They dont know this other artist (but... theres a low chance of this due to them actually having a following) 3. I have some slots open, while the better artist doesnt. 4. They want specifically MY drawings. Which makes me think that personal commissions have “THAT specific artist” as one of the deciding factors to the purchase of that work. You did mention this, its just that I believe that it has a slightly higher relevance than it was stated. (The biggest deciding factor being money ofc) But then again I dont have that much time or experience doing this, so I may as well be wrong about it all lol. Also I love this series.

@D4rkLigHtLP

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks that was actually really insightful! :)

I did not remember being subscribed to this channel, I guess it's time to go back to the old days and watch a lot of your videos *again.*

@victornsvs

3 жыл бұрын

it's probably because of the iterative drawing video. a bunch of people saw it

Great advice! Also be aware there are refund laws in some States. I had to define my refund policy in California by law, even if saying something like “no refunds unless I cannot complete the commission for whatever reason.” That’s good enough for a refund policy, once it’s defined.

Absolutely great tutorial. I love how you go so in depth on each topic you cover and I can easily tell you are talking from experience instead of dogma.

I have been seriously considering taking commissions and doing research and this is the most helpful video I have seen on the subject. I've had a lot of your older content on autoplay while I'm doing other things and it occurred to me today to see if you were posting newer content. So glad I did. Thanks Sycra!

perfect timing i just wanted to start a commision!!!

@commonlogic3646

3 жыл бұрын

How do you start? What's the specific business aspect?

@twelve535

3 жыл бұрын

@@commonlogic3646 For your first question, you have to market yourself. If you don't have a social following already you have to go out there and sell your skills. There are some discord servers specifically for that purpose so you could start there. Most people will ask to see your portfolio so make sure you have 2 or 3 drawings to show. I didn't understand your second question...

@commonlogic3646

3 жыл бұрын

@@twelve535 you answered them both. Thank you.

@twelve535

3 жыл бұрын

@@commonlogic3646 A bit of advice though. Don't sell your skills on discord servers for too long. There comes a point in which very few people will be willing to pay for your skills and you'd just be wasting your time. Post your art on social media sites, it'll be slow at first but after a while you won't have to market yourself anymore, plenty of people will be looking for you. Also, don't draw a single line without getting paid first. You'll get scammed. At the same time the customer doesn't want to get scammed either. My advice is to use a 50/50 strategy. They pay you 50% when you start and the remaining 50% when you finish. If you have a social media site and commission history then you don't need to do this as they can see that you're legit. Best of luck.

@commonlogic3646

3 жыл бұрын

@@twelve535 yup, thank you man.

Always take money upfront and do no revisions. People like to add a change to the drawing just so they feel like they are having their part in the drawing even if they are happy with the sketch. Also some people can back out and not pay you if you didn't take payment in advance. I also want to add that, sometimes charging a lot of money can add prestige to your drawing, there are people that want to pay a lot of money for the art they purchase. The undercharging, overcharging will always be tricky I believe. You can make 2 aliases, one that charges a lot and one that undercharges to see how it works out.

Same thing happened to me when I first started asking for commissions. I tried to charge more than my value. And folks balked at the price I was asking (for good reason). Then, one year I decided to post an ad on my local facebook groups. I was asking $40/commission for a couples portrait during Valentines Day. Ended up getting lots of commission requests and made several hundred dollars

Thanks so much for your insight. You always hit it on the ball on how these things work. And it educates and encourages the art community that really need this information.

I'm so tired of the "don't undercharge yourself" myth. I'm really glad to see real world advice on capitalizing on a market and growing your own skills. People see commissions as only money, but it's incredibly valuable in exiting your comfort zone too and broadening your horizons!

@MalevolentMantis

3 жыл бұрын

@Some characters aren't allowed In the real world, you have to undercut your peers especially at certain skill levels or else you won't get work, simple as that. This entire video debunked that entire mindset in a very wise and practical way.

@pocketblue

3 жыл бұрын

@Some characters aren't allowed Making money is not about being nice to fellow sellers, though, it's about making a fair deal. I salute buyers who try to commission artists with fair prices, but we should stop thinking too much into it. If the market is oversatured, it is what it is. Maybe that's how overal skill level will rise. Everyone should encourage higher prices, but imo, usually it's done too agressively. Can't educate everyone without starting an outrage movement (which would probably go wrong lmao). Eventually any lowballer should realize that they can charge more, if they grow from that experience. If not, well fuck, nothing we can do, bitching won't help

@MalevolentMantis

3 жыл бұрын

@@pocketblue Exactly, I have artist friends that I love (and are certainly more skilled than me) that I compete with, we ALL compete to get commissions in one sorta way, either you find a niche. Offer prices that people will realistically pay, or you accept that keeping art as STRICTLY a hobby is what's right for you. NOT EVERY ARTIST HAS TO EARN MONEY FROM THEIR HOBBY. I do it out of passion first, and if money comes it's a bonus to me, what's okay for you is strictly your decision to make.

@SexycuteStudios

3 жыл бұрын

So many people over look this basic fundamental of marketing and sales: You can only charge up to what the market will bear. So many of us don't want to look at commissioned art the way that a business looks at selling a product or a service. But, if you want to make art for a living, and you're doing individual commissions as opposed to working for a company, you have to look at each commissioned piece as a product. And what is most likely, is that your product will appeal to a certain group of regular people, and these people have regular jobs like we do. So you really have to look at it like you would a can of soda, or a handbag, or a toy, or anything you'd want to use as an example that isn't a major purchase. Businesses don't make money off of one can. Businesses have to generate cash flow, and the most effective way of doing that is to sell by volume. Each can is really cheap, but it is the volume that generates cash flow. Realistically, artists cannot sustain that model. We are not machines. So we do the best we can, and price ourselves the most effective way we can. There are times when someone will definitely be undercharging for their services. But it isn't something set in stone. It is an individual setting, based on work load and skill level. If you can put out production quality work at a fast pace, and you're charging $10-$15 per, you are underselling yourself. But if it takes you days to complete a commission and are still learning fundamentals, $15 might be too high. I charge $40 for a custom character, and I can have the base character done in around a half hour, and a finished, high quality render done in around 3 hours including the base character work and post work. I know I am underselling myself, but the market will not bear a higher price. There has to be a compromise. My skill and experience is worth $50 per hour, but nobody on the street is going to pay me that much. You have to be really good, and be sought after by companies, to command a price that matches what your value in time and experience really is. I knew someone who charged well north of $250 for a commissioned drawing, and there were some people willing to pay that. Partly because that illustrator used to illustrate for Playboy. Obviously we can't all be as sought after as that guy was. TL;DR Do not expect your art to pay the bills. By all means, every artist should give it a shot. But it is very, very rare to be able to do so. Only 10% of art majors reach the goal, and that percentage is a lot higher for them than for the average artist, because majors have the advantage of an established network. If you have ever made money making art, even only one sale, you've already done better than over 50% of the total number of artists on the planet.

now if only I had people asking for commissions in the first place

@jccwell

3 жыл бұрын

Advertise on a local FB sales page. Make a simple commission advertisement with a couple options. Include examples of the types of commissions you want to do in your advertisement. Think about what people would want to buy as a commission. Pet portraits, Couples portraits (great around Valentine's Day), kids as superheroes, etc. Post the ad on every FB sales group in your area, as long as it follows group rules. Price your commissions reasonably ($50 or less for best results)

@lightlawliet3526

3 жыл бұрын

yeah same.

This does make a lot of sense..this is really helpful

Thanks for the hard work, Sycra!

This is immensely helpful, Sycra. Been looking for videos about this topic :)

I have always assumed that when starting you should under sell your art a little until you have too many commissions to do, than you start raising little by little.

The only thing I'd like to add is about no-price requests drawing. If you draw things for free - it'll majorly attract people that want a free drawing. Instead, I'd recommend drawing some fanart in the field you want to work in. Then throw in some YCHs to see how people themselves will pay for your work. After a couple of these you'll figure out the price you can charge for comms~

I'm so glad your back, I thought I had notifs for you on. I am especially happy that you took that re iteration is absolutely great for your challenge

One of the best videos I've seen from you imo, good insights

You talk a lot about quality related to price, but deviantart posters who draw furry inflation porn in MS paint make more money than I ever will.

@mirillis6083

3 жыл бұрын

But actually though; Furries make good money in commissions, usually better than regular artist commissions

@Giant-Enemy-Crab

3 жыл бұрын

There is definitely a correlation, but it's obviously not absolute. Supplying demand is always rewarded, particularly when the supply is low because so few people want to do it

@yppop1125

3 жыл бұрын

@@Giant-Enemy-Crab Is this legit? poor artists lmao why?

@ObscureDraws

3 жыл бұрын

@@yppop1125 If it's specialist or distasteful to draw it right then it makes money.

@Selrisitai

3 жыл бұрын

@@mirillis6083 If they do, it's likely because of the emotional attachment these people have. Difficult to find someone who wants a drawing of some character they thought up or an anime character (who isn't a girl, or scantily clad) where the person 1) NEEDS the drawing, and 2) Needs it so badly he's willing to pay $150 for it.

Hey Sycra, awesome tips man, thanks a lot for those advices, I think it makes tottaly sense.

Wonder if I've ever stumbled across Sycra's alias(es) before 🤔

thank you so so much for this advice, it will really help me in the future, for now i consider that i am... in the middle? the funny thing is that i begin in december 1 lol, so i consider that i'm going well till now... but the rest of the details that you said here are too important to me. FOR REAL! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS WORK! it is amazing to have you for this kind of material, you are so good in what you do, keep it up! see you in the next vid!

Good explanation. For my personal taste I've watched this in 1,5 x speed because its a little bit too long but the info is great. Thanks!

Thanks Sycra its very helpfull

Fucking FINALLY someone said something that makes sense without any holes. And it's very cool that you shared about your experience as an unknown artist. For 2 months I've been struggling with this. There are commission communities with a lot of strong opinions which make sense but fall apart if you approach from a different angles. They just get tired of lowballers both on buying and selling side, and it's impossible to navigate in all this chaos. Yes, people shouldn't charge 10$ for 10h painting, but you shouldn't take that right away from them. Yes, it's sorta hurting the market, yes art can be underpriced. Deal with it. All this constant bitching is mind-numbing and nobody is ready to show the middle ground. -- Thank you very very much Sycra. This is a very valuable video for me.

@SexycuteStudios

3 жыл бұрын

"For 2 months I've been struggling with this." Good lord....... try 10 years of struggling, like I have! And I actually have some business knowledge..... Being paid as an artist is the most difficult path I have *ever* taken. There's way too much uncertainty and volatility.

Very informative video. I'm slowly thinking doing comissions but I really don't know how to find a place to promote myself. And I'm on various stuff like twitter, insta even reddit sometimes. Also it's hard to judge yourself if you are "comissionable" (I don't know if that word exist xD)

HOW DO YOU KEEP UPLOADING SUCH AWESOME VIDEOS

Very helpful video! Thank you :)

Wow I was just searching about starting doing commissions and decided to get a pause and see what I had new on yt!

The reason people recommend artists to not undercharge has nothing to do with worrying about artists who are already at the top of their game or even in the middle of your silly pyramid, because no one gives a shit about that. It has to do with not short changing themselves by charging 10 bucks for 20-50 hours of work, and of course the infamous payment in "exposure". Edit: Reading the comments I stand corrected, there are a lot of morons who do recommend it for that reason. Charge what you want and forget about the douchbags who are concerned about "fixing" the market. That said there is no reason to sell your work for ridiculous amounts, at those prices you might as well just keep them for yourself and do your own marketing.

Yeeey.... finally a video

Thanks, very useful video

You really changed my mind about low pricing

Thank you!

thanks for that last advice, i was about to try to learn DnD so i could draw people's OCs but im not really into fantasy.

thank you mate

good video! Thanks :)

thank you for the talk...secret HENTAI commission artist! :D

I'm wondering how to charge clients that I have worked with in the past that expect a certain price from me. Over time the price for my work has changed but they might still expect the old amount of money from me. Should I stick with the old low price to keep them as my client or charge the amount I normally would. Also this video was tremendously helpful for me. You actually changed my perspective on charging since all I heard before is that I would destroy the market if Icharged less than other artists would. Even though I might be much more comfortable with less money since it also lowers the clients expectations. Thank you!

@AdrianW3D

3 жыл бұрын

Usually, you'll have to leave for a while, say 6-12 months. Which will help you with renegotiating the next time you work with past clients. Because ideally, you're now more in demand and your time is more valuable or your work has gotten better or both. Raising your price while working for the client at that moment or a month or two after you've left and come back usually isn't a good idea.

Watched this video 4 months ago... and it worked... damn...

Step 1: undercut the competition Step 2: ??? Step 3: Profit

Oh I've actually been thinking of creating another alias for sometime!

When you use an alias do you also use a fake name, or just go by a username?

Hmm, good points But how do we get noticed in the first place? Is really based on luck

@valeopvaleop

3 жыл бұрын

If you're on social media, don't be afraid to DM artists you like, interact with other artists posts and generally say hi and stuff. Making friends with other artists isn't so hard, and when that happens, they will start supporting you and your work, retweeting your stuff and all that jazz. this worked for me and I've been slowly building a follower count like that

@pocketblue

3 жыл бұрын

I disagree. Several appealing artworks in your profile (bonus points if there's a lot of consistent work) is the only thing you need. Imagine you get a retweet from some popular artist. Would their audience like your work? Happened to me, I have some skill but no appeal. I'm that person who is "good enough to paint, not good enough to be liked". Just gotta work a little bit more

This is a really good video. Could you give some tips of how to promote yourself? Because I try, but I don´t see any people asking me for comissions

Given the implication that you might have a NSFW account, or possibly multiple, I can't help but wonder whether I've stumbled across one at some point, lol.

**Me at the sixth box:**

Lol I literally just started posting stuff for comissions, thank you sycra.

i want to do commissions but im definitely not good enough to get paid for my works

One of the most common problem I've encountered is when an artist is too sure of himself and charges way more than what he's truly worth. I know, some of the guru artist tell people to "know your worth and not let people take advantage of you". BUT REALLY, know YOUR WORTH, because you could be the one taking advantage of customers and they will never call you back. Also, there's artists that charge the same price to everybody. Meaning, they don't look at the bigger picture. Artists should ask themselves this simple question:"Is it realistic for my customer to spend this amount of money on my work, how could we work together so it work for both of us?" ...Think about this, If you are an artist and you charge too much for what a customer can afford, the work you did for this customer will most likely reach no one, and you LOOSE because A) your customer won't call you back and B) your name won't get the awareness it deserves. Your customer has a budget and it's something you should discuss with him before formulating any prices. Also, listen more to your customers and treat them as customers. If you have more than enough customers, don't feel entitled to treat "smaller customers" with less respect. Treat everybody the same.

I always find it hilarious when I see big creators with very large platforms and plenty of views talking down to their followers about how you need to make sure you charge enough to make a minimum wage on every piece and how you need to stop devaluing yourself because it devalues the entire community. Sure, make a living wage off every piece you do, try it, try to price your work based on skill and work time as a beginner, see how far it takes you. A problem with these large creators is that they are either blinded by their current position, they themselves don't want to be undercut by more skilled people, or, worst of all, they live in a dream land where everyone will become their own kings and queens and all work will be paid as equal and peace will come to earth. Least to say the art world is a business and online it's the single most artificially and naturally flooded market you could ever enter, in the real and online world all markets not even a quarter as flooded as this one regularly face debt due to undercutting and beating out competition just so they can become a name that is known enough to break even. If you are an artist and you want to make a living off commissions you are now a business owner and all business owners take a loss at the beginning, if they don't take a loss they are the most competitive person you could possibly see and they are simply undercutting and selling so much that it breaks even simply through how much product is being shoved out. With independence comes risk, with selling your product comes hardship, we all face struggles on the road to "making it" so be prepared to struggle for a little bit before you see change. But most important of all, you need to understand how skilled you are, don't be tricked by people blowing smoke, don't trick yourself, the only way you will eventually succeed is by knowing what you are and what product you provide on a fundamental level.

@pocketblue

3 жыл бұрын

It's not just big creators, many small communities worry that if the artist is too insecure (or humble, or from third world country, or etc), they may attract lowballers, so artists with similar skills eventually suffer when try to compete. Basically, mid tier gets hurt, what is undeniably worth 40$ becomes "bruh, I bought that for 15$!!" Personally, it was very hard for me to communicate with sellers/buyers who are fed up with lowballing because how tired of explaining they are.

I don't have a big following on social media how do get people's attention to get commissions

"undercutting" is what powerlifters, boxers, and mma fighters do to compete in the weight class below their 'typical weight'. They say this gives them, depending on the opponent, either an advantage, or a level playing field, as it is assumed that everybody else is utilizing the same weight cutting strategy. I suspect this is common in academia and other disciplines to.

What I wish I knew about: Sycra - where his nsfw is at

Just do it! I see people don’t want to start commission because they think its not good enough. Totally wont hurt to open it anyway, someone out there might be interested. Especially if you are only hobbyists And we cant do much with underprice as individuals. As less experienced artist we cant do much other than follow it o.o And this experience is not only good drawing, but also experience with getting what the client want. .... i didnt watch the video lol

There are some good things to take away from this video, but the whole idea of "you should price lower than your actual value so you're undercutting competition and get more business" is very short-sighted. In the long run, if everyone employs this idea, they will be undercutting other people who are already undercutting other people etc, and consumers will get the idea that freelance art is incredibly cheap, and only go for the cheapest available artists. Yes in the moment -you- will get more work because people think they found a good deal, but you're actively fucking over other people, both at that moment and in the future, because the value of art will keep sinking. On the other hand I do think if you're at an early level, charging minimum wage (depending on where you live) is not feasible, especially if you work slowly. If you're a complete beginner, you should just not try to make money with commissions, and just make fanart or whatever you like. Get some skills, meet some people online, gain a tiny following, maybe occasionally do some gift art or do a request. But don't try to make money of it yet until you feel comfortable with the idea of having to meet someone else's criteria.

@RakugaX

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. Lowballing your art is a VERY toxic thing to do to yourself and the community. This is the thing Stephen Silver has been preaching against for many years. Art is a luxury service, artist should be charging more for their service, especially if they're really good at it.

No one asks me for commission so...yeah *sobs*

The thing about people/companies paying for prestige at the top tier reminds me of when I saw Alloy from Horizon Zero Dawn and intrinsically thought she looked familiar. Then later on, I found out that Loish was her character concept artist, and it all made sense. Alloy had a "Loish look" to her, that I was very accustomed with from following her on DeviantArt. So even not knowing it was Loish that designed her, the fact that it WAS had a positive effect on me.

Great stuff. To this day I see people that are giving advice to charge minimum wage x hours. And they push it on new artists. So suddenly they show up and have very basic skills, no portfolio and never even did a commission before and they're asking for $100+ for a simple drawing. I'm surprised though how long you kept that project in such a low rate range.

I don't know how to speak to artists who are trying to get into concept art, gaming, character design etc. as that isn't my field. But as far as what to charge when starting out - think about what sort of clientele you want. Do you want the cheapskate teenager in his bedroom who wants a character designed for $5 and is really demanding and will insist on endless revisions and a scope of work that is worth way more than $5? Then charge $5. Do you want work from a successful business owner who wants a new artwork for his ad campaign? Then don't charge $5, because eventually that sort of client will turn up. If your client is pinching pennies, that is not the only thing they will be pinching when you agree to a commission. If your client has money to spend, they think more money = better quality (but too much money is a waste). This has worked pretty well for me so far. I have a client in my mind's eye and then I price to that client (making sure my level of work is always improving). It does require some research about your actual market and some trial and error.

Thank you so much for this! :eyes:

Well I I'm early, I Guess

vtubers that's all ill say

Or maybe people shouldn't be charging yet if their grasp of the fundamentals of art isn't up to a level Appreciate There is no 'level guide' which says what art is worth what money, but if its not at a point you can reasonably charge, say, minimum wage... focus on the art, not the hustle at this stage

When Ill be on top of the pyramid I will be charging as I was in bottom and troll everyone in the market.

My libertarianism precluded me from ever caring what other artists thought of my low prices.

The dollar values stated in this video are abysmal, with "$100+" being the highest price listed, it makes it sound like "$100+" is the top tier- it isn't. Not even close. Never charge less than minimum wage. Ever. Minimum wage is the cost of doing work for someone that they can do themselves. Even if you are picking up a pen and paper to draw for the first time, never charge less than minimum wage (currently around $10/hr USD). If they want it for less, they can do it themselves. If nobody is hiring you at that pay rate- don't take less, dedicate your time to studying the fundamentals on ctrlpaint.com, FZD or Swatches or whatever your favorite source of learning fundamentals is/are. There are more free learning resources today for art than there has ever been. If you don't want to put in the time and effort to get better faster, for whatever reason (maybe you hate studying, or get bored/distracted), consider getting another job and then doing art for fun instead, and not worry about seeking commissions. If what I just said made your blood boil, you may be driven enough to actually do the studying and practicing. If the idea of doing another job made you upset but you still don't want to put in the work... If you put the time in to studying and *practicing*, Suzanne Helmigh's post shows how quickly you can progress after you start actually making an effort to- twitter.com/SHelmigh/status/1235514052522250246 . After you have spent any amount of learning, you should now be able to make above minimum wage. When you have skills approximately around her 2011ish level, $30/hr should be your starting point. If you're so slow that doing anything will take 10 hours and finding people for $300 at that skill level is difficult, work to streamline your process to get to those results faster. Most of the people who post their prices publicly are undercharging already, either they don't know they could charge more (since other publicly posted prices tend to be low) or they're actively trying to undercut the market themselves. So the problem with trying to undercut your peers is that they're often trying to do the exact same thing. And then that undercut price is undercut, and then someone else undercuts your undercut. The result is a "race to the bottom". The only people who benefit are the people who are looking to take advantage of artists. Personalized art is a luxury item, it isn't supposed to be in the Steam Winter Sale. Most artists who are charging over $100 do not publicly post their prices because of the nonsensical, and often trolly, public responses that they get when they do. People who had no interest in hiring them will respond that they are "too expensive", or "nobody will pay that much." People are much more polite when the discussion is private, in emails or DMs. Usually the worst response they get is ghosting, or a cordial decline to continue at this time. What most artists have a difficult time understanding is that there are a lot of potential clients out there who make way more money than they do. Look up the distribution of salaries in the USA, ~46.4% of households (57 million households) make more than $75k/yr. ~34.1% (more than 1/3rd! About 42 million households) make over $100k/yr. That's a lot of people making a lot of money, more than many people would think. You don't have to market yourself to be in the price range of people making less. Even if you are not in the USA or a high cost of living country, these people are still in your market because of the internet. As far as where to get commissions when you have no following- it's simple: Go to where the clients already are. On places like Twitter and Instagram you have to have people following you for people to find you. There are places online where there are potential customers who see every post that everyone else makes. Where that is, specifically, will vary by the genre of art that you are producing. Part of your job is finding those locations. Ask your peers.

@elijahbarnes6145

3 жыл бұрын

yeah don't base your arts' worth on the american minimum wage. because it is abysmal lmao

@SexycuteStudios

3 жыл бұрын

Sorry dude, that won't fly. The market determines your pay. You may think you are worth $50 per hour, but if the man on the street can pay someone else $3 per hour for a piece of art, he's not going to pay you $50 per hour. This isn't like building a portfolio and being hired by a company. This is about "on the street" market value. As a commissioned artist, you have to charge what the market will bear. This is no different from any commodity on Earth. As for the rest, I could rip apart every paragraph, but you are not worth my time or energy. Instead, let's see your body of work, that can back up your insane statements. When you do, let me know, and then we can have a serious conversation.

@moocheese5561

3 жыл бұрын

@@SexycuteStudios In reality most clients don't see all the competition for a given project- they need to find someone that can produce what they will like. Some people will absolutely shop for the lowest priced, best quality art they can find. But those aren't clients that artists need to seek out, and they'll likely be a pain to do work for anyway. Typically, the lower paying the client, the more of a headache they are, the less they respect the artist. Rather than continuing this conversation, which you do not have an interest in, just going to link this thread, which you can read at your leisure, or not, whatever. twitter.com/MooCheese/status/1381635299604901893

@apollofateh324

2 жыл бұрын

@@moocheese5561 Bro that was some great advice! Really useful thread + links, thank you! 🙌✨

With all due respect to everything you have done for the art community, There are a few things that are bothering me about this video. You do make a lot of good observations but... 1. There are a lot of references to “up there” and “down here” in your skill pyramid but no examples or discussion of what that looks like in practical terms. It’s a little frustrating to see you drawing arrows at a pyramid without having any reference point for what exactly artists should be looking for as evidence of where they are in that pyramid. This is ESPECIALLY problematic for artists in the middle tiers. This is probably where it becomes MOST difficult to know where you are in the demand curve and where you encounter some of the worst advice. This is where you need feedback from your peers. 2. I am very frustrated by your statement “one of the biggest benefits of charging very little at the beginning is that you KNOW you are worth more” (or close to that.) The problem with that is all of the artists that DONT know they are worth more and are surrounded by false input from people who don’t know what they are talking about and are telling artists their work ISNT worth more. You don’t address this. I don’t know if that’s an oversight or because you are unaware? 3. At the end you say something along the lines of “this isn’t about making money this is about going to school”. That statement needs to be at the VERY BEGINNING. Then advise people to just NOT charge when they are just starting out and then talk about how they can know when they are ready with *concrete examples*

@sgtpepper91

3 жыл бұрын

these 'wiwika' videos are all very disjointed and done without proper preparation

@sgtpepper91

3 жыл бұрын

@Abran Atmos classic logical fallacy, extremely common these days. When someone criticizes a football player, do you discard their opinion if they're not a player themselves? Do I need to be a chef to say the dinner is not very tasty?

@nickjaxson

3 жыл бұрын

I believe you may have missed his part on this was his take at it, putting together the information and presenting it in his own fashion does not mean that it is going to contain every piece of information that an artist is looking for. As a person it is your responsibility to look for different resources to help you build knowledge, as well as as a person you are responsible for self evaluation your worth. It sounds like you were looking for something specific going into this and had this unknown expectation shattered at not hearing what you wanted to hear. As a presentation of information gathered from personal experience I think that the video and his presentation are perfect. many of the issues that i see people complaining are for those that seem like there were looking for something specific

@sgtpepper91

3 жыл бұрын

@@nickjaxson yeah im not reading a page-long justification of your salty white knighting

@pocketblue

3 жыл бұрын

To me there's nothing strange about the pyramid and I don't feel like any of examples are too vague. I was exactly that confused artist in mid tier who asked people around on pricing. Always a heated topic because everyone is desperate to get their point across, filled with extremes without middle ground. Popular and more skilled artists charge less then you? How come? How exactly does one measure if they're overpricing? Should you calculate your price based on hours it took you? It kinda fluctuates and will always take getting used to, you can't expect a beginner to fully follow it as a prophet. Usually those heated people just reply "whatever your issue is, go keep practicing until you're ready". Yeah, I'm that person who is ready and want adequate answers without paranoiс screaming "always charge more". Imo the video is perfect, hits the nail on the head

7:10 Gotta be careful with that mentality. What is Good is highly subjective measure. Additionally, what people consider good can also go against what traditional "technical skills" may teach. 10:00 Also, this is how a lot of startups work. They run in the red to collect users and funding, then start upping their prices once they have a invested user base.

@sgtpepper91

3 жыл бұрын

art is far from subjective. representational art at the very least

@animodium2670

3 жыл бұрын

@@sgtpepper91 art is completely subjective.

@sgtpepper91

3 жыл бұрын

@@animodium2670 there's really nothing for me to say here except that you're very wrong

How did I catch this video this early

Im a artist.. Not a professional one.. But i can draw ig... And.. I want to make money... Am i suposed to do commissions anyway?

@gordonfreeman5872

3 жыл бұрын

nobody is going to pay you if you can't draw

@themanok178

3 жыл бұрын

@@gordonfreeman5872 well i can draw

this is a good explanation but it wouldve been interesting if youd show real examples of the ideas you presented. but i see why you wouldnt want to do that

Guess whos early...😔💅

I don't agree with your views concerning (under-)pricing. I think it's quite misleading. I work in business and do freelance art jobs, and the point about why artists should not underprice their art is because they are actively destroying the market by doing so. This is really terrible for people who make a living off of it and can actually endanger their livelihoods. Your hours, regardless of skill, should be rewarded; whether the customer is willing to pay for your quality is an entirely different matter that's up to your customer to decide by taking a look at your recent work. Yes, pros might work faster and better, but they also charge more and have a reputation. If you don't find any customers, then work on quality and marketing. Underpricing your art is NOT the correct response. When people on fiverr sell landscape paintings with a character fully colored for 25$ just because they see art as their hobby, general customers (who always look for the cheapest option) get the impression that art is inexpensive. What they don't see in a price fair to the artist is the truth: that it takes work. That you have to spend literal years practicing and studying. That you don't get a steady pay flow. That you don't get paid rent because there is no insurance. That it's always risk. That there is extremely heavy competition. If you need to underprice your art to below 15 bucks an hour, you're better off doing any side job that pays 450$ a month. Doing jobs for free justified by being 'education' or 'exposure', I'm sorry, is fu**ing terrible advice as well. Doing art contracts is a JOB. The idea of building a reputation this way is like whoring yourself out for a follower base. Please for the love of god, don't do this, even if you are inexperienced. You don't need customers for experience; you just need to study.

@SkullcutTutorials

3 жыл бұрын

Also: If you have the desire to make a living with your art, then you need to be head to head with your competition. Most jobs by companies want a formal education. Being a doctor is the same. You need to study and get your degree before doing certain jobs that pay well. You can't cheat your way up by building a reputation in giving your work away for free; if you want to make a living off of it, then invest the appropriate hours into whatever it is you want to make a living off of.

@wardm4

3 жыл бұрын

Also, so much of art is perception. If you make a $100 product and sell it for $50 to undercut the market, people won't realize you've made a $100 product. They'll perceive it as the lower quality work because that's what you're charging. If you overcharge, people will perceive your product as higher quality than it is and pay that. People don't look at and evaluate art very critically. They won't be able to tell if something is high or low quality. They'll just see the price and assume it's the quality you're charging because they'll assume the market is willing to pay that. Because of this, underpricing actively hurts your perceived quality and reputation. There's actually an excellent book on this called Death of the Artist: How Creators Are Struggling to Survive in the Age of Billionaires and Big Tech. This race to the bottom may not have seemed bad in Sycra's time (because it worked for him), but the data is in, and it has been an extremely harmful practice that has basically completely destroyed the art market for everyone after his generation. When Sycra was in the thick of it, the Pareto Principle still held: 80% of profits went to the top 20%. This meant there was a long enough tail on the curve for people to undercharge and bootstrap their way up. After the race to the bottom described in this video, now 80% of profits go to the top 2%. This means that everyone undercharges, no one gets seen, and it's impossible to bootstrap up anymore. There actually isn't a very good solution to this. The damage has been done and there's no going back anymore.

@jobydorr4267

3 жыл бұрын

@@wardm4 goddamn thank you. What a great reply.

Why artist can't deal with free market and capitalism?

Uhm, uhm, uhm, I don't really know what I want to say... Uhm, hu hu!

seriously you could at least try to write a script. these videos could be 1/3rd the length with no loss