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@AntiSpeciestMarkoValente

5 ай бұрын

Is transcript available - maybe of auto-generated subtitles?

@Sentientism

5 ай бұрын

@@AntiSpeciestMarkoValente I do fairly rich show-notes that summarise the conversation on sentientism.info. Here for this episode: sentientism.info/christof-koch-and-iit-consciousness-is-not-a-computation-its-a-state-of-being-sentientism-ep181. I think you can also turn on auto-transcripts on KZread and extract them?

@Sentientism

5 ай бұрын

I've also just noticed that Spotify is trialling a "read-along" transcript which might help... open.spotify.com/episode/40TheqjbFdmxH8VCzT97vI?si=e5eb1376a6f144f3

Another very interesting podcast. In the 1970's there was an interview show on network television called The Dick Cavette Show. Cavette was widely regarded as the smartest, cleverest, most articulate, most personable, most incisive interviewer of celebrities and other notables of that era. I think the torch has been passed to Jaime Woodhouse. A couple of additional questions that I wish could have be asked of Dr. Koch: 1. his views on the Penrose-Hameroff model for consciousness that links quantum phenomena going on at a subcellular level inside neurons with conscious experience, 2. with respect to his corticocentric bias towards mammalian consciousness, how does he explain the obviously conscious behavior of laboratory rats and cats that have been experimentally decorticated, and 3. how does he ethically reconcile the killing of laboratory animals like mice to answer esoteric questions about sentience in the very animals whose lives he has just extinguished? Incidentally, John Sanbonmatsu's eagerly awaited new book, "The Omnivores' Deception", has not yet been published.

@Sentientism

5 ай бұрын

Thank you George - very kind words! Those are great questions. Wish I'd dug into those areas more. Thanks re: "Omnivore's Deception" - I should have been clearer it's not out yet! Maybe confused myself because I've been lucky enough to read a section of it already.

I love these conversations. Please keep on making them. They are so important.

@Sentientism

5 ай бұрын

Thank you - you've given me a warm glow! I plan to do just that. Although I wish they reached a much bigger audience. My guests deserve it!

Looking forward to this video

@Sentientism

5 ай бұрын

Thanks Louis - hope you enjoy!

Quote: "The Western intellectual tradition suggests that in order to be happy, what we need to do most of all is to go out and subdue the world; secure resources, found businesses, run governments, gain fame and conquer nations. By contrast, the Eastern tradition has for a long while told us something very different. In both its Buddhist and Hindu strands, it has insisted that contentment requires us to learn to conquer not the world but the instrument through which we view this world, namely our minds." The School of Life. - Or, it's merely about conquering your microbiome, your gut bacteria... Most people seem unable... - Or, maybe it's merely about conquering your stupid taste buds... Most people seem unable... 🙃

Christof Kock rocks!!

@Sentientism

15 күн бұрын

He does indeed - a fascinating mind. I'm so lucky to talk to all these amazing people.

O good he has another book

This is profound.

Just starting. - I expect a good one... Meanwhile, The Animal Turn had Gary Francione on. I agree with him a lot, but somehow he also bugs me. My take away: First abolition (as he advocates), then rights, then welfare - just as happened with human chattel slavery (we're still working on the welfare part.). Only veganism, grounded in the sentience of the victims (as he advocates), can achieve abolition... Agreed, but single-issue campaigns (such as fur, leather, wool, civet coffee, etc.) can serve the purpose of educating and enlightening about the massive extent of animal "chattel enslavement" - as long as the clear primary purpose is always abolition (not rights or welfare improvements)! Even PETA, the master of single-issue campaigns, has the motto "Animals are not ours..." which is an abolitionist stance. Gary advocates for a single message and single focus (which is fine), but I think we need to hit on many fronts toward the unified abolitionist end. I agree with him that veganism is the litmus test for any individual, or organization, advocating for sentient beings. I also want to make some distinctions on what abolition means for "domesticated" and "wild" sentient beings, but that's too much content for a KZread comment.😁

@JamieWoodhouse

5 ай бұрын

Thanks Roy. Yep - his stance isn't always quite as clearly consistent or crisply bounded as he presents. I criticise "welfarism" too - but prefer to point out that even a minimal concern for the "welfare" of non-human animals is inconsistent with farming or exploiting them. There's a danger that in pointing out the issues with welfarism we reinforce the suggestion that "high welfare"/"humane" animal farming can actually exist. When it's an oxymoron. And while abolishing human use and the treatment of non-human animals as property are important steps - they're not all that's important to sentient beings. Ending human-caused harms is important - but many deep problems will still remain thereafter.

@AntiSpeciestMarkoValente

5 ай бұрын

I would say VEGanism is not sensible and reliable test about advocacy for nondiscrimination between all species of sentient beings! Raw etymologic meaning of term VEGan is not even synchronized with its own definitions(by Vegan Society,...)! which causes most Vegans are, many hidden, Speciests. Term AntiSpeciest is synchronized! and is or should be(but is mostly only declarative) basis for all AntiSpeciests movements however they are called/branded(Vegan, Animal liberation/rights, Sentientism,....)! And is best also as logical and experientially known continuation of Anti-Racism,Nazism, Misogynism,... Now I go watch video 😂😇

and video is interrupted by Macdonald's Big Mac ad! By AI?!

@Sentientism

5 ай бұрын

Maybe the AI is Sentientist and is trying to bankrupt McD's by wasting their ad money on people who will never buy anything but a McPlant? :)

@AntiSpeciestMarkoValente

5 ай бұрын

I don't care about and don't need their McPlant, I would not even step inside, and all similar symbols and accelerators of Speciesm, I would feel as a Speciest traitor. I hope this "scientist", which ignore-d? undoubtedly obvious proves of suffering of his lab animals, and obviously and righteously felt quite uncomfortable and embarrassed by "why not vegan" and mentioned lab animals, will stop his Mengele practice and become AntiSpeciest. He recognises speciest-ically the rights of functionally incapable humans but with "theory" of different scale of consciousness still can't recognize and grant same rights to other species! After watching this I even more prefer AntiSpeciesm over Sentientism, which I feel is not sentient enough about discrimination. not native english speaker, pardon my french :)

@Sentientism

5 ай бұрын

@@AntiSpeciestMarkoValente Thank you for your thoughtful reply - your English is way better than my French! I share your frustration - hopefully our conversation made a tiny contribution to Christof thinking more broadly about the values he already holds. As I mentioned, while Sentientism leaves space for various ways of thinking about different sentient beings - the minimum obligation at the very least should be non-maleficence towards every sentient being. That we wouldn't needlessly exploit, harm or kill them. To my mind sentientism is one way of rejecting speciesism. I suspect we need a combination of anti-speciesism and sentientism because we do need the latter's positive statement about who (sentient beings) matter morally - as well as rejecting speciesist discrimination. Arguably someone could be an "anti-speciesist" by treating humans and dogs just as badly as they treat pigs and fishes. And some might disingenuously claim that discriminating against insentient plant species is "speciesist". Many anti-speciesists also reserve the right to grant differential moral consideration based on differing interests or degrees of sentience - on the basis that their discrimination isn't species-based. Sorry for the long reply - got carried away!

here hes still a physicalist. (dec 2023) now in interviews from a month ago (april 2024) he explicitly abandons it.

@Sentientism

8 күн бұрын

Thanks - it's an interesting trajectory!

I have heard lots of arguments against religion repeatedly, and some are good ones, but “why dogs don’t get resurrected”, that is a new one.. 😑