Plz help us keep the channel afloat, we have feline mouths to feed 😅 Patreon: www.patreon.com/zelphontheshelf PayPal: www.paypal.com/paypalme/zelphontheshelf Venmo: @Samantha-Shelley-1 Merch: www.etsy.com/shop/ZelphOnTheShelf?ref=simple-shop-header-name&listing_id=923128996 Our incredibly delicious and sustainable candle: exmocandles.com/candles/zelph-on-the-shelf/

@AndrewGiles688

5 ай бұрын

You can leave the church but it will never leave you alone is once again proven true. Mormonism is as much a part of your life since the day you left. A sad life to live simply in opposition rather than acceptance or freedom. Jesus was right when he said one cannot serve two masters.

My sister just had a kid, and since I don't want kids myself, I feel like I have the ability to support her in a way that I couldn't if I did have children of my own. Childfree people are an essential part of the communities and families that they're in!!

@MxPdog

5 ай бұрын

I was the "this baby won't sleep" call cause I have the gift of swinging babies.. but if I have 3 people calling me for that, I can't have my own baby or I wouldn't be able to do that.. the village is so important

@s.a.6082

5 ай бұрын

That is so freaking sweet. Us parents CHERISH our child free friends and family who offer us support.

@beetles1964

5 ай бұрын

As a mom of two kids, I highly appreciate that aunts and uncles like you exist. ❤

It is so painful to be around children being raised by parents who don’t have the temperament to raise children! Years later, we can see the consequences.

My kid has decided not to have kids, and I see it as a responsible decision on her part. She knows her strengths and weaknesses and made her decision accordingly.

When people ask me about having kids I say “I want my life to be about me right now.” Such a wholesome and needed conversation guys!

I'm childfree and I had my fallopians yanked right before the Dobbs decision came down in 2022 and I have never felt more relieved.

@Nelia2705

4 ай бұрын

Yey °_* I'm als team no-tubes

I was married in the temple at 19, mother at 21. I felt such a strong desire for children, and a specific talk by Anderson in 2011 (I believe) about having kids even if you aren't ready had me pushing my husband to pray about it. I was not ready. My first and third were hard on me, and all three have had quite the tempers as toddlers. With my first I was at my mother's house over half the week to have backup during the days. Only in the last few years have I really reckoned with prioritizing myself, and I wasn't a supermom by ANY standard. I left the church almost 2 years ago, and I have had a lot of grief over my lost freedom, girlhood, and even by not taking my time to date around and also by having my dating pool artificially shrunk. I didn't turn heads, and was never popular and I had self esteem issues. I essentially jumped at the first Mormon guy who asked. I had the Mormon expectations so drilled in, that I didn't realize how much I had been culturally/religiously controlled until I left.

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

💜💜💜

@pensivelyrebelling

3 ай бұрын

I had a friend in HS who had a similar experience after converting to Mormonism as a teen. I lost touch with her because of our religious differences (something I really regret on my end because it was definitely on me). I think of her from time to time and hope she genuinely is happy in her life, whatever it looks like, particularly since I’ve deconstructed from the beliefs that out a wedge between us.

I come from a LARGE family (I am not Mormon) and I have been taking care of children for most of my life, literally (as the oldest, I was expected to take care of my younger siblings)! I made a firm decision as a teenager, that I never wanted children down the road (especially after my parents got divorced). I think that having children is the BIGGEST decision that a person can make and people do not take this seriously. There are a lot of parents out here who didn't want or shouldn't of had children at all. As a former teacher for 10-years, I have seen some shit from all races and economic backgrounds, and to keep it short (because I have so many stories, I can write a book), bringing children into this world should be taken way more seriously than it is.

@Nelia2705

4 ай бұрын

I hundred percent agree! Most child free people spend more time thinking about this decision thant those who become parents.

@flutenanyidk1806

3 ай бұрын

Hey, you should write a book! I would 100% read and support that.

Ha HA, in early 1990's, I was interviewed by New York Magazine about being 'childless by choice' - then picked up by radio shows & TV. More of us need to be mindful about if we are fit for parenthood. Ruby Franke had 6 kids she tortured.

As a woman, honestly, being child free feels like the only real way to ensure lifelong autonomy. Not to mention the horrors of sexism in the medical world. It all just seems so horrible and debilitating to me. I’d rather regret not having them 🤷🏻‍♀️

@katie18261

3 ай бұрын

10000%

@CMBauer

3 ай бұрын

100% agree

As a Dad I didn’t want kids, my wife wanted kids so it was a compromise, the first I had with her with the understanding she would do practically everything, turns out it popped out and I loved the child, and I pretty much now spend all my free time with him and we have a lot of fun, the second one I also didn’t want but my wife convinced me the first needed a sibling. I love both my boys and am dedicated and put in a hell of an effort to give them a great time having fun…but it does make life hard, wake up early and go to work to come home to second work. Typical day is wake up at six, go to work (split shift gym in the middle, lunch and shower) back to work, get home about 7 then bath, and walk my kids, take them to to playground and walk them to sleep and then they fall asleep between 9:30 and 10:30, shower and eat for myself, time with wife and bed…not a lot of time to do the stuff I really like to do for selfish reasons. Having kids is really hard and it’s not for everyone. It’s not really for me but here I am no turning back. Being a GOOD parent is a hell of a lot of work. If I didn’t have kids life would legitimately be easier and I’d probably enjoy it more but like you say I can’t regret having them because I love them so much and they are a lot of fun at 1 and 3

@sparklyunicorn5431

5 ай бұрын

Wow that's crazy. And that's with her doing all the hard work, wowww 😳🤯

@randomname4726

5 ай бұрын

Remember that the time goes by quickly and it keeps getting easier.

@heisenberg3099

3 ай бұрын

For me, kids symbolize the greatest investment we'll ever take on. It can definitely be hair pulling at times but there will come a point when we're old and frail and will be truly thankful for having a loving circle, our own family we brought and nutured into this world. The last thing I want is to be a burden to my daughter and hopefully her future siblings when I'm old but it fills my heart with joy knowing they get to live their own journey and has weirdly brought some peace with my mortality

@emilybixler3166

2 ай бұрын

It's good that worked out for you. But for other people reading "compromising" with your partner on having kids where they say they'll do everything can be *really* bad for kids. In this case, he ended up liking the kids and wanting to be their dad. But if that doesn't end up being the case, you can end up messing up kids. I learned around two months ago that's what happened with my parents. My dad didn't want kids, and my mom talked him into it. And that explained so much about my upbringing. I'm a lot more similar to my dad than to my mom. Up to and including the type of autism where we get overwhelmed by loud crowded places. Unfortunately, loud crowded places were my mom and sister's idea of fun. My mom tried her best, but she didn't understand me and couldn't bond with me. My idea of fun was board games. My dad played poker, used to play DND, etc. In theory the kind of person who'd like board games. In reality every time I asked him to, he said he'd dealt with work all day and this was his time to relax, and he didn't want to waste it with me. His idea of relaxing was sitting in front of the TV watching fox news for 5 hours in a row, and if I or my sister tried to talk to my mom in the living room during that time we'd get yelled at. He had kids he didn't want and we suffered for it. It's better to divorce than compromise on having kids and risk traumatizing someone for life over it.

Personal bias, perhaps, but I do think it's better to wait till your 30s to have kids. If you start having kids early, you're probably just going to raise them like you were raised, warts and all. But if you're older, you've had more time to work through your own past and values, and how you want to do things differently. If I'd gotten pregnant at 22 instead of 32, I don't think I would've done nearly as good a job.

@KreeZafi

5 ай бұрын

Totally agree, I've always thought that if I had kids (which I won't, but hypotheticall) I'd want it to be in my early to mid thirties. Just, you know, so I'd be a mature adult with my shit together, but not yet getting so old that I'm going to be too tired for a wild toddler - my aunt had a kid at about 40 and has frequently lamented how she loves him but she really feels too old to keep up with him. But I overall think "too old" is preferable over "too young" if one wants to err on the side of caution, so to speak. I'd rather have a kid at 40 than 20.

@chloecagle6493

3 ай бұрын

This is tougher for women medically speaking because the risks (and infertility) increase quite a bit after age 35!

@KreeZafi

2 ай бұрын

@@chloecagle6493 While that is true, it's worth noting that risks increasing doesn't mean risks are super high. For example, some birth defect risks "double" after a certain age, and that sounds really scary, but what that actually means is that the risk goes from 1% to 2% or something like that. It's still very low. I think this is one of those things where people take true facts and exaggerate or misrepresent them to make them seem a whole lot worse than they really are. Yes, fertility does go down and risks do go up with age, but it's nowhere near as bad as many people seem to think.

@chloecagle6493

2 ай бұрын

@@KreeZafi Your initial argument is 100% correct, and thank you for providing that additional context for anyone else reading. However, if you look at the decline in egg count and fertility after age 30, it is a pretty steep decline.

I’m AuDHD and have other mental health issues. I can barely take care of myself, let alone a whole other child.

@celinepope

5 ай бұрын

Same here! My mom always talks about how raising me was hell (I don't blame her, I had meltdowns almost daily). But she can't grasp why I wouldn't want kids- when I'm like.. I have my own issues and not saying mental illness = a person shouldn't exist.. but I wouldn't want to pass on my issues to an innocent child. Both geneticly and socially.

@Nelia2705

4 ай бұрын

same here

So my wife and I have one child together. Most of my life I didn’t want children. I remember talking about not wanting children in Provo at a job and a coworker literally told me, “ just have them, then if you don’t like it you can just give them up for adoption.” 😮 like ma’am! What!? It’s not a dog! It’s a human being!!! Now I’ve found myself the mama of one child. He’s a wonderful little boy. Truly I couldn’t have asked for a more wonderful child. But it’s also so hard. The bare minimum in parenting is unimaginably hard. And if you decide to be a good parent it feels nearly impossible some days. Especially growing up abused and neglected I find myself jealous of my parents and my son. My parents got to be abusive and selfish and cruel. I did anything and everything hoping they would be happy and proud of me (they never were). And my son isn’t scared of me. He doesn’t try to please me. He has the space to have big feelings, to be angry at me, to point out when I’m behaving badly, he expects an apology and he gets them. It’s this feeling that my parents and my son both get these awesome lives that I built for them and I got the shit on both ends of the stick. But… I love my son. I’m grateful for the chance to grow and learn. I’m grateful for the good times we have together. I wouldn’t change it if I could. But… I’m also done. I won’t have another. One is more than enough.

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing so honestly! 💜💜

@ajmuda

5 ай бұрын

How incredible you are for breaking the cycles of abuse and the generational trauma. I'm so sorry you are stuck in the middle of having to carry that. I wish you all the best and hope you continue personal work and therapy and find your own happiness as well.

@sparklyunicorn5431

5 ай бұрын

Damn thanks for sharing. This would have been me if I had kids. I too am in awe of my parents' irresponsibility in the emotional aspects of parenting. It was common before that as long as physical needs were met you were a 'good' parent 🙄

this is SO anecdotal, but ive never heard a women who was child free by choice say they regretted that decision...

@Carcassbits11

5 ай бұрын

I've wanted to be childfree my entire life, at 25 I decided to get the vasectomy, now at 29 I regret it, we might do a reversal but that's not guaranteed and it's expensive. Since I never planned to have kids, I didn't make good financial decisions and now that I want them I am not financially ready, and the clock is ticking because the longer you have a vasectomy the less effective the reversal is. Christmas was hard, and everyone my age is having a kid. If I never have kids than cool, but I'm afraid I'll keep regretting my decision forever

@Retr0Dima

5 ай бұрын

@@Carcassbits11 How come you were so sure before, but now regret it? Just wondering, since I'm having mine this Friday. My reasons are mostly my mental health, and the feeling that after 10 years of therapy I still would get triggered by a potential child. My little brother was murdered fifteen years ago, thus I'd be worrying about my child 24/7. I know that I'd love the child so much, that it'd physically hurt. I don't think I want this kind of extreme in my life. After my upbringing with an alcoholic father and the murder of my little brother, I feel that I have suffered enough for two lifetimes. So for me personally, I'm rather excited to get some guaranteed peace and quiet in my life. What were your reasons back then and what changed?

@ConnyvanderMeer

3 ай бұрын

I think part of it is once you're past that age you kinda don't have a choice anymore so you need to keep reminding yourself why you chose this.. Just like the other way around (you can't undo having kids either)

An ex of mine had twin boys because a girl he hooked up with said she was on birth control and wasn't. It was actually between him and 2 other dudes. He chose to be an absentee father and ultimately that was a huge factor in the end of our relationship. The whole situation sucked and I get the urge to want to run because it was forced on him. But his parents were active in the boys lives and he just blew them off when they were right in front of him. Once we got into a huge argument because the boys were at his house (he lived with his parents at the time) and he was going to hang out with me. I found out and I told him that he needed to spend time with them and not blow them off. So he went and hung out with his friends instead. I grew up without a father and his dismissive attitude towards his sons was very triggering for me.

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

Ugh, how rough for everyone involved :/

So many thoughts. I am a mother of a two year old, and we are expecting our second in June. I am stay-at-home currently because, well besides having the privelege to do so, all the research points to the developmental need for my infants to be near me as much time as possible to lay the foundation for a secure attachment and emotional wellness. (Dr. Erica Komisar has great stuff on this.) I am sacrificing, so is my husband, to be a parent, but I fully own my choice and don’t martyr myself. I fully accept that my “yes” to parenthood was a “no” to other things. Not everything, but some things. And my “no” to child free life has brought many unique joys. I do think that people need to realize that they are not owed children. So, so many couples, especially in the evangelical space (of which I am a part), go to all lengths possible to have biological children when, to me, we as Christians should be the first to say “Okay God, so we seem to be infertile. We will accept whatever you give or withhold from us.” But it’s the extreme opposite in those spaces. Children are not only an expectation but they are viewed as a right we have. It’s just not the case and if we normalized child free families and singles, that perception might change.

@s.a.6082

5 ай бұрын

Nice to see another Christian with this view point.

@maggietiong6153

5 ай бұрын

It's hard too because I feel like in the evangelical space, there's no room for saying "Okay, we seem to be infertile." I am infertile and we did some treatment but not IVF and at a certain point it's like I ceased to exist as a childless woman in the church... unless it was to be asked to serve at every opportunity. Being a mother is like the highest form of godliness and if you're not one, it's like you're not mature. Childless men are seen as suspicious. I was pushed out of a Bible study because they "wanted to focus on topics about parenting." If I mentioned not being able to have kids at an event or in a prayer circle, I was basically told it was probably my fault, we didn't love God enough, we had hidden sin, etc. Everything was about families. So even I see why evangelical couples would be willing to do everything, because there's no room for a childless woman over 30 unless she's a missionary or something. I've heard similar stories again and again in my childless-after-infertility groups. It's basically why I don't go to church any more. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm 58, no kids & still don't want any...

@heisenberg3099

3 ай бұрын

What about when you're 85 and everyone around you is on their way out?

I actually went from not wanting kids to wanting them after leaving Mormonism because I feel like I finally have a chance at modeling healthy relationships to my kids. I imagine I’d LOVE to, in fact NEED to, have child-free adults around me to help me out by then

I absolutely love being a mom but would always caution people to do anything they can not to have kids unless they are 1000% sure they want them. Once I know they’re all in though- I’m SO excited to talk to them about pregnancy, birth, newborn stage, parenting styles, everything, it’s just the most fulfilling thing I’ve ever personally experienced! But I wouldn’t want anyone to go through it unless they’re also sure it would be THE most fulfilling option available because my life will never be remotely similar to how it was before. And I have way more support raising them than the average American mom.

I'm childfree, but I'd adopt Little Orphan Tanny.

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

he’s interested, especially if you have the funds to pay for his operation

I remember spending time with my nephew when he was little. Gorgeous, smart, nice kid. I enjoyed spending time with him and I didn't even have to do much to take care of him compared to the other adults. I enjoyed it but it was EXHAUSTING and I didn't like how I lost a sense of my own identity. It underlined my conviction that having kids is not right for me.

Everything about this conversation resonates with me as someone who has always been childfree by choice and knew from an extremely young age that parenthood was not for me. Thank you for adding voices to this community.

I really struggled with the idea of having kids in my mid 20s. I always assumed I’d want kids someday because that’s just what you do. But when I really started contending with the reality of it, I knew I’m not well suited for it in similar ways to Tanner. I started to have panic attacks bc my long term partner had always said he wanted kids. I feel very solidly now that I just want to be the fun aunt and part of the village. Standing firm in that has allowed me to finally relax and just enjoy the kids that are already here.

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

🥰💖💖💖

@s.a.6082

5 ай бұрын

As a mom of four, I’m here to say we NEED fun aunties to be apart of our village! We appreciate you SO much, and I don’t look down on you for one second for not having any of your own! I respect people who know it’s not for them and don’t care to the pressure of society.

My ex hubs had a 3.stitch 20 min vasectomy and got 20 T3s and 2 weeks paid sick time... i had an entire hysterectomy and got told 7 days off is probably enoigh and 3 t3s ... for abdominal surgery. I love my sparkle kids (my non denominational godkids/unrelated nieces/nephews/niblings) .. some of us need to be able to have lives so we can support our parent friends snd their sprog

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

Wow 🙃🙃 7 days for a hysterectomy?! Madness

@cookiesnbubbles

5 ай бұрын

It sucks, because the scientific and medical community has always been predominantly men, and we see that in the lack of research into women specific diseases, prescription drug trials, birth control pain bias, and patient care like yours

I want to prefacd by saying that I am in no way at all saying this is true for anyone else - but the pressure to have kids made me think I would never want them. Now that I'm in my mid 30's I'm changing my mind. Ultimately people need to mind their own business 🥰

You guys are my PEOPLE. I love kids but only for 2 hours. I love dogs but also only for 2 hours.

Grateful for every childfree video out there❤

I’ll never forget asking my mother if she could do it again would she have had kids? It was shocking how fast she responded with Absolutely Not!

It’s so nice to hear the thoughts of someone who views life very much like me. People around me in real life can sometimes be hard to relate to, so I’m happy for how internet can connect us. :) Though to be fair, I’m not one of those who gets pressured to have children when I say I am child free. People generally support me (I don’t live in the US, that could have something to do with it) For me I recognise that I don’t have the capacity to both care well for myself and a child. And since I care a lot about children’s happiness, I won’t risk it. I also like children in small doses, so I’ll be a kind aunt, and the rest of the time I’ll be roaming around free somewhere haha :)

I really appreciate this video. I was recently wondering about each of your POVs on the topic, but it’s so personal and it’s rude to ask people about - you don’t owe us this if you don’t want to share. I’ve been on a journey considering parenthood or not, and it really hit me that, for most of my life, I didn’t take the time to visualize what life could be like if in*didn’t* have children. When I gave it more deliberate thought, I was surprised to find a lot of comfort and peace with the idea of choosing to be child free. It’s wonderful to have examples of other adults who are in a similar place, simply because it isn’t modeled. Parent as default is a disservice to parents and child free folks alike. Thanks for creating this conversational space on your platform. ❤❤

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

💜💜💜!!

I am a child specialist ski instructor, a teacher at a nature learning preschool AND a nanny. Ive studied child development and education for a decade. Guess what. I absolutely do not want my own children. My mom cant fathom it. She said "i just think youre missing out on life." She herself wasnt very maternal. I am auDHD and raising me wasnt easy. Wild meltdowns daily. I wouldnt want to genetically pass that onto a kid. Not to mention, im graduating this spring in environmental science, i definitely dont want to birth a kid in this climate crisis...

@oscarguerrero178

5 ай бұрын

I’m 22, lived in Utah County my whole life (raised Catholic), still live at home and I’m studying to be an elementary school teacher and I’m thinking that I probably don’t want kids. Me and my brother are on the spectrum, though he is severely so to the point where he’s mentally a child. My family loves him, though he can be difficult, though I certainly wasn’t an easy to raise either. I struggle with depression and general fatigue so having a kid, at least at the moment, is not really an option I’m considering. If I did have one, maybe I would foster or adopt, but I don’t think I want children in general. I MAY change my mind, but I would much rather be in the boat of regretting not having children since I can still find community and purpose in other ways, than regret having children since that’s an irreversible lifelong change.

Love you guys! Thank you for your thoughtful and intelligent discussions. I listen to you guys and feel like you're friends. This discussion is cathartic for me. :)

This video was so validating for me and my thoughts about having children. When people bring it up I normally struggle to put my thoughts about it into words but you guys nailed it. I love your guys channel and all of your videos!!!

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

🥳💜💜💜

I was nodding in agreement for like 85% of this video, very refreshing, thank you 😊

It may be self victimizing, but I feel being raised in Mormonism and not waking up to reality until we had 3 kids way too young and poor, that it's the church's fault for the situation I've got my family in financially. We love and sacrifice everything for our kids, but had we waited 3-5 years our life and theirs would be way better off. Our rational was having kids is why we're on Earth, and not having them poor was showing our lack of faith

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

Definitely a valid and huge frustration, not self-victimizing at all IMO! 💜

@s.a.6082

5 ай бұрын

God this is such valid point. My husband and I got married way too fuckjng young. 18 and 19. Yeah. And proceeded to have our first when I was 20, second at 22, third at 26, and fourth at 28. I’m so glad my husband and I had a faith transition together, but Jesus do I wish we had waited to have kids.

@chrewtransformation

5 ай бұрын

@@s.a.6082 yeah it's rough

@kathrynmyrick1739

5 ай бұрын

It’s like the church wants to keep families poor and dependent on their “help” so they can’t leave.

I like this video based on the title alone

I have 6 siblings and grew up (6 to 11) in a cult. I was homeschooled from 4 to 15. There are thousands of children in religious cultures who would beg their parents to be more discerning about reproducing. :(

Me and my partner probably will never have kids, I have severe ADHD and can't even take care of myself and he has similar struggle., I know I just couldn't handle kids and if I did I don't know if I'd have the capacity to give them the love and attention they deserve so that's why I choose not to

@alejajm1666

5 ай бұрын

Same for the severe ADHD. That paired with my extensive childhood trauma just makes me not cut out for it

yes thank you sam and tanner I feel breastfed by this discussion (but genuinely, fantastic video)

@SusannahGraceMusic

5 ай бұрын

They don’t need kids bc they’re busy parenting us lol

I never regret watching a zelph video. Literally crying at the end

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

🥹💜💜💜💜

I think that a good conclusion here is that every person deserves to know and understand what they are choosing, and to be offered an actual choice, when it comes to reproduction.

I am 43 and childless. i'd be a horrible parent.

I have four kids and JESUS CHRIST it is no joke! I love them with every fiber of my being, but it is not for everyone, and I’m incredibly grateful for the child free people in my life who are apart of my village. They are angels.

I have two kids and i still wonder, "How do people do this!?" Dont let anyone tell u that u gotta have kids...

I totally agree with your right to either have children or not. Neither of my sons say that they are going to have children, 31 and 23. I see so many young atheist decide to not have children.

@Aelffwynn

5 ай бұрын

That's because religious people do such a good job raising young atheists already 😂 Heyoooo

I waited until 33 to start having kids and i think it's definitely for the best. My husband and i have masters degrees and own a home and have had therapy to overcome our own issues. The thing about never feeling ready is absolutely true though.....I know people who had to go through ivf and still are utterly terrified before their kids arrives. It's a giant responsibility and if you have a functioning brain, you should be scared of messing it up. It's honestly a sign you might be a decent parent, but that's no excuse for telling people they should have kids when they don't want to. The biggest problem today is the isolation. I can't imagine how beautiful and amazing it would be to have a "villiage". We live away from family and all our friends are child free and just don't understand or even reach out anymore. Even taking 2 young kids out to a restaurant is an exhausting trip that requires intricate planning..... getting kids off their schedule will screw up what little sleep you have for a week so we can't just bring the kids to adult events. It's a lot and we have lost friends because we just don't have any extra bandwidth. We haven't had any help in the 4 years I've been a parent....I keep saying once the kids go to school I might find friends again. If you have friends with very young kids, visit that parent please. They don't want you to be a babysitter, they often just want another adult in the room.

My aunt is childless and is doing a college fund for my native cousin's children. I should add i don't see my rich ass mormon uncle doing that. But he loves to think he is more holy than the rest of us

I have major depressive disorder. No way I'm risking passing that on.

@mylesmarkson1686

5 ай бұрын

I have a "This world sucks" disorder. No way I'm passing that on either!

As someone who does eventually want kids, I couldn’t agree more. I hate how willy nilly people have kids. I fully support government mandated classes but I know it could never happen in the US. Any reason is a good reason to not have kids. An adjacent conversation to this is the decline of kid friendly spaces and the lack of inclusion of children in community and society. It makes me sad to see kids villainized and shut out. You don’t have to want kids, but everyone should be able to be around children as they move through society. It’s the old idea of “children should be seen and not heard “ rebranded to “children should not be”.

Just got your candle for Christmas! It smells so amazing! I'll definitely keep repurchasing!

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

Ahhhh yay!!!! 💖💖💖

I’m definitely in that second camp of parents who say I love my kid. But don’t do it if you don’t want to. And really really think about it if you do. My kid was consciously conceived, but it was stupid timing in terms of life factors and super lonely as my friends didn’t have kids for 5-8 years later! I was 28 so I wasn’t that young, it’s just that my friends were smarter and put their careers first 😂

Ok, something to push back on. Resource shortages aren't actually exacerbated by people having lots of kids because it's not a resource production problem. It's actually caused by bad policy that results in food not reaching those who need it. World hunger, much like climate change, is a problem of greedy CEOs, not too many people.

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, definitely feels like industry and corrupt governments are far more to blame than anything else. But as it currently stands, I think I heard that it takes about 250 people in impoverished countries to sustain one American’s lifestyle. :/

People playing the "regret" card need to have a good think on which regret is truly worse. One can still have children in their lives and regret not having raised one, they'll get a few 'I told you so' for sure, but there are still ways to nurture that parenting instinct. On the other hand, how are you going to cope with the regret of having brought someone into this world? I'm sure some empathy would be felt by people in similar situations, but it is hardly somehing you could unashamedly broadcast to the world; and how severely could that affect your (realistically) two decades of hands-on parenting? Imagine someone growing up knowing, or even suspecting, that their parent(s) regret having had them. A baffling argument altogether.

From now on whenever I do tarot I'm picturing Tanner as the Fool and Magician

We have three kids that we love and are able to provide a very good life for, but since my youngest was born I’ve watched climate change get exponentially worse every year and I worry so much about their futures. If I was just now at child-bearing age I think I would choose not to have any. I’m making sure my kids know that they have a choice (while also reassuring them I’m glad I had them haha). I’ve also given up hobbies and having much of a social life because it’s just hard to find time for that stuff when you’re raising human beings. I’m introverted and creative so I think I would’ve done fine not having them. But then, it was ingrained in me from the church that that was my job in life. This is also making me think of the movie Idiocracy and how true it is. 😝

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

Ooh I haven’t seen that one!

I just had my first kid this year (fun fact: I had to pause one of you guys' videos to take the call that advised me to go ahead and get to the hospital the day said kid was born!). I love this child and am learning new ways to love this child every day. But this was not a planned pregnancy, either. We "won the lottery," as it were and had to move up our life plans by a year or two to prepare. I got really lucky. Everything worked out so that we were as ready as we could be with about 6 months' notice, and I'd already spent the last five years married and figuring out who I was. In that time I also actively pondered how I wanted to raise children if I ever had them. And then I think about the parents who can't be as prepared, whether because of age, income, circumstance, or any number of things, and it just drives it home to me that in this day and age, parenting ought to be a choice, and a choice taken seriously at that. It really, truly is a huge responsibility to create and raise a child. I'm learning that every day. Children deserve to have the guarantee of respect and safety as they grow, and not everyone is equipped to provide that. And if you find you regret not having any later in life, while it can be challenging to get your foot in the door, there are a LOT of children in the foster system who I bet could benefit from having someone in their lives who has figured out they want to and are ready to be a parent.

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

Ahhh very fun fact haha

Great convo! I support you! Be well!

I worked with a lady (early 30s) who had her first kid at 16 and had another in her 20s. She got off the phone one day with either one of the kids or one of the exes, clearly stressed about something, and looked me dead in the eyes and said: 'don't have kids.' There was nothing humorous or flippant in the way she said it. I felt her overwhelming frustration in that moment and really took it to heart.... I've never wanted kids but that look in her eyes really sealed the deal for me. The poor woman had never had a moment in her adult life just for herself, she'd always been a parent, and I felt it. She was trapped. She loved her kids and was proud of them and did right by them, but she regretted them. I can only imagine how awful that must feel.

I'm late 30s, have four kids, three of them ND (same as my wife and I), living in the second most expensive city in Australia. Love my kids. Don't have kids.

Young mom of 2 here. I love this discussion. Thank you so much for talking about this! Agree with everything you both said. Being more conscious about this decision is so important and everyone deserves to feel empowered make this decision .❤❤

So many people have children who haven't done the mental and emotional work in order to not traumatize children. It's mostly people who WOULD be good parents who choose not to be (that's fine), while those who choose to are sadly a much more mixed bag. I personally want kids, and I'm selfishly glad we are able to reduce our overpopulation problem by others rejecting parenthood. But I wish it were the ignorant who were the ones choosing not to. Instead of them having 3 kids to every kid I'll have.

Excellent episode. I have 238,934,295,297 comments to add to this. Give or take several hundred billion. Likely it is best to have a good community to raise a child in. As some ancient cultures did. One or both parents could end up having life or health or other issues that alters their ability to parent. Without other support, it can fling the children into massive problems.

You look so good today, Sam, I love the hair and outfit!

@gwendofrendo

5 ай бұрын

You always look good though!

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

🥰💖💖

My long term partner just got the snip and I'm so glad.. no more people telling us we will change our minds!

Very candid and compassionate takes. ❤

Thank you thank you for this video! Really enjoyed hearing your thoughts on the matter, they very much mirror mine. I had never heard the experience of a younger man who got a vasectomy. I find it so powerful to hear of a man who makes himself accountable and responsible for his reproductive parts instead of assuming it's a woman only job. Its the grown up thing to do when you made your mind up about the topic but so few actually do it. And btw I honestly thought you were in your early twenties, I was startled at hearing you're my age! What do you eat??? 😂

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

Best comment haha 😅 I’ve eaten mostly vegan for 8 years, Tanner pretty similar I think! Veggies 4eva!

@marinat5137

5 ай бұрын

@ZelphOntheShelf vegan club here too 💘

I’ve noticed that childfree by choice people tend to be very intelligent and self aware. Interesting.

I'm a mother of 1. In fact i went through IVF for that sweet boy but i would absolutely never want anyone to have a child who doesn't truly want to. It is hard and it is so much work and you absolutely cannot do it half assed. I'm going to encourage my son to do whatever he wants. If he wants to marry a man and be child free that's great or if he wants to marry a woman and have 6 kids that's great too. If he's happy, I'm happy.

I was raised in a strict fundamentalist religion. I was fortunate though that having kids wasn’t shoved down our throats but getting married was. I didn’t want kids growing up but when I met my husband I was overcome with the desire of having kids and being a housewife, even though that wasn’t what I wanted growing up. I am now 42, almost 43 and have no children. We weren’t able to have them. I’m excellent with children but now realize I never really wanted kids… it just took over 20 years to realize this.. lol. I own a wellness center and I’m able to help so many people with my gifts, I wouldn’t of been able to do that if I would of ended up having children

tell me how I just now realized the channel acronym is ZOTS and we still don’t have ZOTS TOTS merch?? 👀

This was food for the soul. I’m so glad I joined y’all’s Patreon ❤ It doesn’t matter what I do, what I don’t do will haunt me 😊 so choose your regrets 😝 Very freeing. My choice of being childless is a lot more simple…I don’t love kids hahahaha 😂 I can play happily for 30 minutes with a child. But I think it would be selfish of me to have a kid knowing I could not give them enough attention and care needed to become a better person than I am. I reckon if I had one by accident maybe things could fall into place, just like most things in life once you accept them, but what child wants to be born into a family that didn’t envision them, dream about them? Not me. I will continue to love my nephew and niece and be grateful I have an amazing sister that has that capacity to raise up humans I can nurture from the sidelines, just like - I feel - I was out here to do. It takes a village to raise a child. I am part of that village.

When people talk about "regret," I think it's important to distinguish between mourning the imaginary bio babies themselves (which I have never done), and mourning the fact that this particular 80ish-year blip in time and space has not yielded the circumstances under which actually birthing and raising them feels like a logical or compassionate choice (which I do all the time). Source: Fourteen months of owning zero tubes and zero regrets (except that weird site pain sometimes; I hear you, Tanner).

I had a kid at 17 and it was fucking hard. I love her but I totally get this.

I “regret” not having kids, in that I’m sad about it, but it wasn’t really a choice exactly. I like to put conversations around disability into these discussions because it’s so often overlooked. I’m AuDHD and poor, with no stable relationship, no “village” to help, and gads of trauma it’s taking me years to get to in therapy- and therapy isn’t accessible to everybody. I’m one of those who wanted a child and is physically capable of having one, but never had the money, familial, chosen-familial, and mental health resources to responsibly, or even practically, make it happen. It was sort of a choice but not, really, and I’m not happy about it. Also, being autistic, I’m literally not allowed to adopt or foster, which breaks my heart too. Of course disabled people can and do make great parents, but the barriers are higher for us, especially considering the lack of marriage equality we experience in the US.

@ZelphOntheShelf

3 ай бұрын

💜💜💜 thank you for sharing

I am child free but I work at a preschool and my mom doesn't get why I wouldn't want kids because "having your own kids is so much better"

Watching this while my labrador is sleeping in my spot with her head on my pillow. But she doesn't bark so Yay!

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

🥹🥹

@Carcassbits11

5 ай бұрын

My dog barks everything a big car drives by, the noise is so annoying when I'm home. I can't imagine crying lol

I'm learning how to parent myself fr fr Same Tanner! That's already a tough journey learning the ways our parents failed us and a lot of times because they didn't know how to do better than that. I'm all in for people to have kids if they really want and are ready for them. Two of my friends are currently pregnant and I'm really excited to be an aunt!

Any time I say I don’t want biological children, people always say “oh you’ll change your mind” 🤦🏼‍♀️ I’m like, I don’t know how? I only date people who don’t want kids. So in order for it to happen we would both have to change our stance. Also, I work with kids! It’s the best birth control out there. I love them but I do not want one in my home.

Ex LDS myself… 8 or 9 kids is still something I can’t give up 😢

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

Haha you are brave!! 🙈

I think for me I decided unless im enthusiastic about the idea, im not gonna have them. Like plenty of people might be on the fence but can end up being great parents because they put their-selves aside and accept it, but a lot of children have miserable lives where their parents never let them forget how not wanted they were. I find it fun and rewarding just being an uncle, and I far from dislike kids, I just cant see myself being the parent though.

My husband is scarred by the experience of being the oldest of 9 children in a Mormon family. I am scared by the awful quality of Mormon parenting and the unmanageable numbers of children. When you understand trauma and child development these large families are just scary.

I discovered when I was very young that I don’t actually care about having biological kids. Like… the Having the experience of giving birth is a mild curiosity to me, but I could genuinely live without it. Any time I think of parenthood, I think of parenting teens in the foster care system, because everyone should have someone they can call when they get a flat tire. I’ve always cared far more about giving love to existing people who need it the most.

Knowing what I know now I probably wouldn't have had kids. When I was in the church I felt like I had to honestly. Motherhood is isolating. The family that pressured you into having them disappear. My eyes have been open to the very real dangers my kids face each day and I feel guilty for putting them in this world.

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

💜💜💜💜

I got my tubes cut 2 years ago and it was the best decision of my life💞

I remember after my second child I KNEW I was done. I struggled with PPD and I knew more than two wouldn’t work for me. My mom told me I shouldn’t talk about that out loud and I needed to ask gods permission if I could stop. (I took my own permission and didn’t have more)

where have these creators been all my life?!

I want to especially acknowledge the subgroup of people who are not having their own children but who are putting their time, efforts, and maybe even their own money (I’m looking at teachers in the US) into caring after and shaping other people’s children. It can be even harder going into work with children and then having to parent their own child after work. At least some working parents have a break from children during work. I absolutely agree that children should not be expected to be parents’ caretakers in old age. I also believe that’s why people should not be antinatalist because it will be other people’s children who will take care of them when they’re unable to care for themselves. I also think antinatalist is different from being anti overpopulation. One of the reasons I am so on the fence is because of lack of societal support: everything from horrible parental leave, taking off time for appointments, lack of good health insurance, lack of even daycare slots, it just keeps piling on. I know a lot of this is a US-specific problem, and it saddens me.

Loooove this! So hard to decide if I want kids or not 😂

Ive been an aunt gor a few years ans its the best of both worlds and the best situation for me

Ok the snippy snip in your balls and the slicey stick in your arm are painful, but oh my god an IUD insertion, that is a solid 8 like oh my god

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

Eeeek the Nexplanon hurt a lot only from the injection they put in to numb you (and I almost passed out in the waiting room after nbd lol) IUD sounds unbearably hard

Thank you for this! I'm the same way as you, Tanner. I'm sensitive and get overwhelmed easily when there is any form of chaos around me. I do have a baby nephew who I love to death, but it is a great feeling to spoil him and then send him home at the end of the day. 😆Choosing to have children should be between you and your partner, not society.

You do you!

My ex should never have reproduced. I looovvvee my kids but they did not deserve the He!! they had to live through and will always suffer the consequences of. Temple marriage didn't guarantee crap, which is what my training in the 70's and 80's taught me. My kids are all happy they are here but each and every one knows their life hasn't been anything to celebrate.

#CHILD_FREE❤❤🧡🧡💛💛💚💚💙💙💜💜

A very wise choice for them to make. I fully support them in this decision. Future generations will be greatly blessed by this choice!

@ZelphOntheShelf

5 ай бұрын

Are you this mean to people in real life?

@danielstark8356

5 ай бұрын

@@ZelphOntheShelf I'm just agreeing with what you said in this video.

@danielstark8356

5 ай бұрын

@ZelphOntheShelf Be free to spend your time enhancing your creative process and personal pursuits! Live your most authentic life! Raising the future generation is best left up to others much more likely and much better equiped to raise them well

@brooke_reiverrose2949

3 ай бұрын

It’s shit like this that makes me wish we could block people on yt. Like, I just don’t enjoy this kind of gaslighting pettiness interrupting the otherwise thoughtful discussions in my online life.

@danielstark8356

3 ай бұрын

@@brooke_reiverrose2949 I said absolutely nothing that they didn't say in their own video.

BOTH my kids came when I was using bc and condoms w my ex husband. Babies come wheb they come. BIRTH CONTROL FAILS. I totally support ppl who dont want kids. I LOVE my childless peeps. They are amazing and offer the BEST support!!

42:30 “You need to learn to regulate your own nervous system before you have kids“ LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!! I swear, i've met more people who don't want kids who have amazing parenting beliefs than people who have kids :(

Time traveling vasectimist lmao!!!!!

Sam you look stunning esp in that color