About 1985 I asked Great Grandmaster William C. C. Chen about this topic. He said it wasn't important: "Life is too short." Fast forward thirty some years and he promoted both sides. I stick to one side as a personal preference and sleep on my right side most times as the Professor recommended. I enjoy your videos and books.

@dsfgnk4

11 күн бұрын

Thanks for watching.

I worked out our 24-step Beijing Yang style Form on the opposite side and have been practicing it on non-lesson days for a year and a half so far. I have been in good health all of that time and don't feel any ill-effects in my organs (yet). I feel it was beneficial as a challenge for my brain and body and has helped me to know and understand the Form better. I also know a teacher who can do the 74 move Chen style Lao Jia form on both sides and she seems very healthy.

Very interesting, this is the first I’ve heard anything about Professor Cheng’s view of doing the mirror image form. I believe TT Lang practiced this way.

@kmusicjohnsen7127

Ай бұрын

TT Liang said that every tai chi student should have one student of their own; their own left side. I believe he didn't consider you knew the form until you knew both the left and right hand sides of it.

The basis for the advice against practising forms in mirror image may possibly be due to the misunderstanding by some of the 'organs' in relation to Traditional Chinese Medicine's energy pathways - The 'Spleen Channel' and anatomical spleen have relationships but are not the same. Whilst, for example, the spleen is a singular organ, most of the channels are bilateral, including the spleen channel. Also there is a powerful instinct within most living, sentient creatures to limit and therefore specialise creating 'dominance' patterns with some cultural overtones, such as right hand 'righteous' left hand 'sinister.' (as a left hand dominant child my school teachers forced me to write with my right hand) - the 'taboo' principle used in social controls. Practicing the 'mirror image' form must help the development of neural networks especially in the higher centers and stop the tendency to blind, mechanical movement and help develop intelligent and adaptable muscle memory.

@dsfgnk4

Ай бұрын

Thank you for this clarification. I especially like and agree with the content of your last sentence!

@davidmalcolm4023

Ай бұрын

@@dsfgnk4 You are most gracious. My only connection with Cheng Man-Ch'ing, apart from reading his books, was practising with one of his students who moved back here in London, Natasha Gorky-Young, whilst training in Zhen Jiu (Acupuncture).

Thank you for raising this topic. "Don''t do a mirror form" - seems nothing but a superstition. And the evidence of the fact that even great masters could do mistakes and spread misconceptions. Chen Manching can be only respected as mostly he admitted his own mistakes (like with alcohol). This superstition is one of few things in taichiquan that makes me miss the liberty of baguazhang, yiquan. Then I just realize that taichi can be as free as bagua if we don't stick to unjustified statements. Interesting to see how practitioners go to extremeties. Taichi people stick to one-side forms and aren't able to move freely. Yiquan people often choose other extremety, "expressing freely" before getting the basics. I do mirror form and it makes me happy. And taichi helped me to solve my health problems. I felt so unbalanced training single whip (e.g.) and other forms just left side. It is so unnatural, same like demanding a kid to learn to step only with left leg. Sometimes I do basic zhangs of bagua, it so so tasty to do it both sides naturally. And statements "don't do mirror forms" make me feel that one day I will leave the form (taolu) behind, practicing the individial shi in different spontaneous combinations.

I practice 37 Form both sides. My teacher learned from Cheng, both sides. We are first Yin and Yang, then into 5 elements and organs. If just do Tai Chi for exercise, then one side is OK. But if train for functional martial art or alchemical development, must train both sides equally.

I've never considered doing taiji on the other side could make you sick. My first taiji teacher encouraged us to learn the form on both sides, and a karate sensei would sometimes have us do kata on the reverse side, as an exercise in testing familiarity, and confusing the brain. I don't recall if sensei said it helped keep the mind sharp but that's the impression I got fromd oing it. I've been meaning to work out the Yang 24 on the left side as an exercise in challenging myself, but these days I practice mostly shibashi, which does both sides equally and has limited stepping, so it's a lot easier. Intriguing topic :)

I don't do the 'wrong' side often enough (with for example the Yang 'modern' 24) but the first form I teach my students - a creation of my own which uses common Yang moves is a bilateral form because I would argue, for health and wellness we ought to exercise both sides of the body equally.

@teapotmonk

Ай бұрын

I do the same Robert, teaching a basic 10 step form on both sides to beginners. Curiously when I’ve done workshops with intermediate students from other styles, some have found it extremely challenging to change sides, almost to the point of impossibility, whilst others have switched with enthusiasm and interest. Balancing the sides also makes sense when I look at the random selection of postures and on which sides that have been selected by Cheng Man-ch’ing students for their students.

A rite handed pitcher, sees no reason to “practice” with his left hand ( we can also use a boxer as an example) we are basically rigth handed people and the form reflects that. Not to mention that almost no one is ambidextrous.

@dsfgnk4

Ай бұрын

Thanks for your comment. Training competitively in sports is different from training for health and self-development, as in Taiji. In the first case, ego, monetary gain, and the entertainment of others are involved even if doing so is at the expense of one's own health and self-development. Maybe more people would be healthier and smarter if they practiced the form on both sides. Maybe smarter but not healthier; maybe healthier but not smarter; maybe neither; maybe both. But the contention is that the form is designed to maximize the flow of qi to the organs, the placement of which is independent of handedness. So the basic question is whether or not it is true that doing the mirror image can make you sick.

@anthonymulholland6398

4 күн бұрын

But they could be if they chose to.

Once we had .earned the short form ingredients Lee family system it was mentioned that we could.d practice o the other side zn d eve to practice reversing sequences, tat is doing them from end to beginning. Chee Zoos feng should form involved short sequences that had both left and right forms. Even so just practicing the basic form is often just enough.

What if you are left dominant?

@dsfgnk4

Ай бұрын

Those who are left-handed do not have positions of liver and spleen, etc., reversed from positions of those who are right-handed. And in empty-hand Taiji movement, handedness would not seem to be an issue. However, in China, no one is allowed to be left-handed. So, for example, writing and use of sword are always done with the right hand, and doing so involves a handedness issue. Interestingly, at one point in the Taiji broadsword form that I do (see my youtube video), there is one instance toward the end, where the left hand briefly holds the sword, which hints that the movements can all be done on the other side, holding the broadsword in the left hand. In the U.S., a reverse view is held about handedness, and children who prefer to write with their left hands are allowed to do so to prevent them from developing some possible negative issue. In any case, saying that doing Taiji on the other side can make you sick seems not yet to be supported by any scientific evidence. So it’s hard to know if such an assertion stems from superstition or cultural norms or actually from keen observation by those in the past who were way more sensitive than we now are.

@CollinErickson-ue3fn

Ай бұрын

your liver is still in the same place

@dingosmith9932

Ай бұрын

@@dsfgnk4 thanks

after reading the 17 comments and replies, and applying my rules of Ten foot poles and if i've got nothing nice to say.... I'd like to mention that NO ONE advocates for left handed sword practice... and that CMC was a Taoist that suffered from Tuberculous. As well as being a professor of Chinese medicine. Couple that with the fact that the Yang Family it's self is steadfast it what they teach... Do you really consider yourself well versed in their art, to go against their methodology?

@rcoldman

Ай бұрын

TT Liang practised left side for half a century and outlived prof. Cheng by 28 years. Patrick Watson who I questioned about this took a similar position to you. He claimed that left side practice would cause one's qi to go backwwards and one would die. Sadly he passed in his mid- to late 50s. I'm 71, have practised left side intermittently for more than 40 years and am in very good health. If we're talking "qualifications", may I enquire as to your age?

@CollinErickson-ue3fn

Ай бұрын

@@rcoldman sure, i'll do you better than that. i'm 48, started in 1996, with Harry Bowman, who was a student with the Seattle Five Willow Asst. under leadership of Ricard Aries. They had bi annual and annual visits from Dr Tao ping Siang. Harry was 15 years in practice and teaching, when i started with thim, i stayed for 5 years, learning only CMC's yang tai chi in 37 postures. From there i studied with Ronald Jorgensun rip and Lonnie Kaneko, rip. From Ronald, i learned how not to teach and how to run a shady tai chi practice.. (un applied of course) and from Lonnie i learn the 54 posture sword form and the 85/103 Yang family long form. i'm currently 27 years in? but i took some time off so i figure have about 20 years of doing living with the practice. A number of Videos From Andrew Dale and Terry Dunn were also a part of my tai chi learnings. yes, i started at 19 years of age at a community education offering at the local Art College (the Evergreen State College in Washington state)

@rcoldman

Ай бұрын

​@@CollinErickson-ue3fn Very good. My view is this. If someone's managed to live a long life and remain healthy and they acknowledge taijiquan as a key factor, I would consider them to be something of an authority. Naturally many factors including environmental, genetic and epigenetic play a part in the longevity of an individual. A master, especially one of Prof. Cheng's caliber cannot be discredited for not living to a very advanced age. Other great Yang family masters also passed relatively "early" but surely, someone who does live a long and healthy life, and feels that taijiquan has been a factor in their longevity can be considered as a positive example for those who study with them, especially when they don't advocate for or against a particular practice but simply share their own perspective. After all, we are all adults here, able to draw our own conclusions. What Robert Chuckrow is sharing is his individual perspective which I consider to be well qualified, especially due to his age, insight and ability. Taoist philosophy is primarily observational. Observe what is natural, what works, what happens when you do this or that. It could be described as algorithmic in that sense. By contrast, the religionist (and Confusion) way is a way of prescription. Do this, don't do that etc. The arts that are influenced by Taoist philosophical insight will naturally continue to evolve and adapt over time. The Tao Te Ching is not a book of rules. it's a set of observations dating back to at least the descending Bronze Age. We don't need to limit ourselves to what the masters of old said as if it's scripture. We have the opportunity to recognise patterns that persist in our time and adapt to them. If you're afraid to practice left side because of what Prof. Cheng and some members of the Yang family said, don't do it. If other people manage to live to a ripe old age practicing right and left side and that jars on you, just ignore them and then you will not be disturbed by their differences. That's a reliable algorithm. 🙂

@CollinErickson-ue3fn

27 күн бұрын

@@rcoldman I don't remember myself or anyone for that matter asking for your "view" Have the life you disserved.

@rcoldman

27 күн бұрын

@@CollinErickson-ue3fn Cause and effect. We're all subject to it. You too.