Watch me build a full Chinese carbon frame next - kzread.info/dash/bejne/X3h4ydWFocydgLg.htmlsi=DWTY6hy1-QK2-JsU

Yes, this video is exactly correct in my experience. I have two Chinese bikes, a Yoeleo R12 (2023) and ICAN A10 (2020), the later is a rim brake aero frame. No problems with either. Really fantastic value. (Note, I have Ultegra Di2 on both, and I had the builds done at a LBS by people who know what they are doing). Both have really good QC in small details. Better than a 2018 mid-level Specialized Tarmac I had previously. By details, I mean roundness of BB area, how closely the derailleur hanger fits into frame, and the wheel dropouts. I've had two sets of ICAN wheels (Aero 50), I really like them, they seem indestructible. Earlier I had bought one set of Yoeleo wheels (2018), my first foray into Chinese stuff, they were not as good, one developed cracks along the nipple holes after ~ 2 years, around 12,000 km (at which point I figure I had gotten my money's worth). I bought a set of Elite Carbon 50D wheels earlier this year for the Yoeleo R12. I really like them so far. Yoeleo now has 6-year warranty on frames. For a couple hundred USD they extend it to lifetime. My ICAN came with a 2-year warranty. Great customer service. Great communication with both companies. I just bought a pair of 3D printed saddles from a company called West Cycling on EBay (also sold on Aliexpress). About $100 each. Time will tell. So far, so good, very comfortable. I might consider a Chinese groupset someday. But not yet. They are too new to that business. And KZread reviews are not encouraging. So, as you say, wheels and frames are a safe option, and concentrate on Yoeleo, Elves, Winspace, and ICAN as things stand in late 2023. Possibly Velobuild. Also Elite Carbon, and another wheel company or two that I'm forgetting.

@MichaelRedford

8 ай бұрын

Are there also cheap aluminum frame sets ?

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

Thanks fro sharing your experiences. They seem to be aligned with me as well. I am hopeful that the groupsets become robust and a viable option because £1000+ for Di2 is a log of money. If anything they keep the western brands honest as they know there is someone on their tails waiting to take the top spot. 👍🏽

@konigsegg_1to1

8 ай бұрын

@@MichaelRedfordno, not really

@byc1013

5 ай бұрын

Seaboard/Tsunami, yes. @@MichaelRedford

Chinese frames giving 5 year warranty while Italian fames only 2. They also cost like 5 times the price

@fabriziomonopoli5074

8 ай бұрын

Actually Pinarello, Bianchi, Cipollini and Wilier offer a 5 year warranty on their frames if you register them on their website. Colnago, Basso and De Rosa, on the other hand, offer a 3 year warranty on their frames, on the same condition. As you see, none of the big Italian brands offers a 2 year warranty, so... get your facts straight before commenting 😉

@christosandreev6392

8 ай бұрын

@@fabriziomonopoli5074 Don't get me wrong, I do believe that Italian bikes are the best ones. I've owned Wilier Izoard, Wilier GTR team edition, Fondriest TF4 1.5, Derosa Pininfarina SK, Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Think2, Basso Diamante 2020. Registering the frame in some website to get an extra year isn't really the best experience. I just had my warranty expire. In anyway I've never had any problems with the frames, but truth is that Italian brands can do better than what they're doing. Especially considering the warranty conditions of the western brands such as TREK.

@e2ffg

8 ай бұрын

Good luck trying to file a warranty claim only to find out the brand no longer exists.

@albertprasetyo6846

7 ай бұрын

I have 4 Chinese bikes and all of them are satisfactory 😊👍

Totally agree with your final conclusion. I've built 2022 Elves Falath Pro, Elitewheels D50 with Ultegra Di2 groupset. I've done 10.000 km on it this year, including Mallorca 312 and La Marmotte and I've never had any issues or thought that the bike was holding me back. Good work!

100% agree. Have a custom painted Yoeleo R12 (2023) and two wheel sets with Shimano Ultegra Di2 12 speed, stages power pedals, power mirror saddle and a nice ManuF. BB. Such a great ride. Not ultra cheap due to all the high end parts but still significant savings compared to a comparable brand frame or a -reassembled bike. Had an issue with one of the rear hubs - Yoeleo sent a replacement part and all was well.

Just wanted to say thanks. Bought and did my first build of a Falath Evo/ Ultegra R8000 and thanks to your insightful videos, all went well and I’m super pleased with the new ride. Thanks again for your great work!

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

Glad to help and it's good to hear that your build went well 👍🏽

Using your advice I bought the Elves Falath Pro but with 105 Di2 and Elite wheels.

Agree 100%. I built up an Elves Eglath Pro with Elite wheels, everything else was pretty much top of the line western brands.. i.e. originally Shimano ultegra, now onto Sram Force Axs etap.. etc.

I see some Chinese frames appearing on German "Kleinanzeigen" (craigslist like) and they are nearly unsalable. So one must calculate that there is no realistic way to get money back once the honeymoon period is over or when the frame is of the wrong size. If you buy a used 10 year or Specialized or Trek bike you for sure can get some 100s of Euro when you decide to sell it.

@zhuyufan1186

8 ай бұрын

True, and I end up with 4 bikes and 1 frame. Though I am still in the honeymoon period with all of them, I start worring about how to get rid of them if I get tired of them or I want something better. The only upside is, most of these frames are affoardable (compare to bigger brands, aside from my elves falath pro), so I have little problem to throw them away while strapping groupset and other parts that has much better chance to sell.

@meibing4912

8 ай бұрын

My “solution” to this is that I ride my bikes for at least 10 years - so resell price matters little. YMMV. 😙

Ohh boy this is exactly my experience. I just finished my first build, a gravel bike. I orderered a frame from Tan Tan Cycling directly through and evrrything is pretty solid, the paintjob is also pretty good. But then my stupid ass decided to give the LTWOO GR9 groupset a go and that has been a pain... I bleed the front brake like 20-25 times until it had some grab and even then im not fully convinced. Finetuning the rear mech has also not been easy but ok. Yesterday there was a sale on a front grx 800 brake lever and caliper for 70 eur(!) And I bought it without thinking that much, just to upgrade my brand new chinese groupset 😅

I have that EC90 saddle on my scott foil (first gen) and for the price is great, as well fitted the foil with one piece handlebar from og-evkin, after two years no issues (paid 140euros for them), also bought some cycling jerseys from spexcel and they are bang for the buck. I would recommend buying those products for people who know little bit more about the bike and the maintanance.

Jourdain, i think that was a fair assessment and the results similar to mine, although not in the same quantities. The bottom line is that if your not prepared to potentially "throw the item away" if it is not to your expectations - don't buy. I have an Ican gravel frame (cannot fault it) fitted with Sensah Empire Pro/Senicx crank. The Sensah FD proved to be a challenge to set-up. In the end i swapped it out for a sram FD. The RD seems to "loose" its indexing fairy regularly but when working shifts well. I am not sure if i would recommend Sensah and will probably swap it out for a Shimano set-up when funds allow. Keep up the good work 👏👏

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing! I'm hopeful that the LTWOO and Sensah groupsets do become a solid option in the future. Right now they are keeping Shimano and SRAM on their toes which is only a good thing!

I have done it this way. Sram Force axs groupset plus Chinese frame and wheels from seller which is 7 years on al and have 98.7 positive feedback. Happy with both my bikes. Super fast and solid machines

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

Great to hear!

That pretty much the right route to go. That said, in my opinion...we need to talk about the 'tuning' of a carbon bike. I've yet to see a chinese frame to compare to the big brands in this area. Great content as usual.

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

Hey Rob, good point. It would be be good to do a video looking at the frames that I've cutup already and talk about the carbon "tuning". I'd be intrigued to know and I'm sure my audience would as well 👍🏽

@MyRestoration1

8 ай бұрын

@@JourdainColeman get in touch!

Thanksfir thos compact review. Luke is now on his SECOND rear derailleur and that doesn't bode well for L-TWOO.

Informative video. Thanks. I'm buying a new Yoeleo R-12 frame, Shimano Di2 12 speed group set, and Elite Drive wheels for Xmas. Going to pass on the L-Twoo electronic group set even though I could save $1000 USD.

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

Glad it was helpful! Good choice on the groupset!

Yes they are BXT are great for me...a lesser known make as not featured by KZreadrs and they STILL do rim brake frames 👌🙏

@mikekelly1771

8 ай бұрын

The site says their rim frame accommodates a Max tyre size of 23mm. Have you been able to fit 25 or 28s on yours? If so, I'll get one.

@leedorney

8 ай бұрын

@@mikekelly1771 Yes, I think on their disc models it's wider but on the rim frames I use a 25 tho tyre widths are negotiable between makes/manu.s

@stuartdryer1352

8 ай бұрын

​@@mikekelly1771My ICAN A10 rim brake bike fits 28 in the rear and 26 in front (Pirelli tires).

Exactly what I’m ending up doing for my future build I’ll go with Asian frame like trifox x18, I have found a good 105 hydraulic 11s used, and there’s a lot of good wheels used on the market too. Crankset and « accessories » will come from china too. IMO best way to keep it relatively cheap, and still have solid quality Happy to see that you’re opting for that route too, conforts me to my choice 😅

@user-ee3uv8jz1n

8 ай бұрын

Why trifox? There is the same delihea for lower price

@user-ee3uv8jz1n

8 ай бұрын

If you didnt now, they take delihea and paint them to trifox colors

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

A few people have made the same comment so somehow I think we have naturally fallen down the same path 👍🏽

@jujurm

8 ай бұрын

@@user-ee3uv8jz1ndidn’t know, I’ll check for them thanks 🙏

@jujurm

8 ай бұрын

@@JourdainColemanyeah there’s really a huge potential in those groupsets in a near future, and I can’t wait to see them working out their recipe and gain access to a large scale audience, maybe catch a bike brand or two to get them on their bike.

My experience matches this video. The frames are generally well made, although often their ride characteristics just aren't as good as a major brand. Chinese wheels are generally excellent and the best place to start, especially the higher end Chinese stuff. I see little reason to pay double or triple for Zipp/Enve/Princeton these days, especially if you get non-proprietary hubs with a quality Chinese carbon rim. In particular, the more expensive Chinese "brands" that have been around for years like Winspace/Lun, Magene, Elves, Yoeleo, Farsports, ICAN etc all make very good stuff. If a Chinese brand has actual distribution in your country, that's the best possible setup. The second tier of Chinese frames and wheels like Superteam and Lightbicycle are generally good with their higher end stuff being excellent and their lower end being reasonable to use for a year or two. I would stay away from any non-branded, super cheap Aliexpress/Amazon stuff as it's always a total crap shoot: you might get something good but more often it's dangerous garbage.

I have one of the cheapest frames, ceccotti branded, $300, been riding it for 3 years now and no issues. It's not the lightest weight frame out there at 1,2kg but it's pretty robust. With chinese frames the higher the price the lighter they are, so at least they have entry level carbon frames for the masses, unlike the big brands.

Hopefully, I'll be looking to order a Falath Evo frameset soon. I'm excited to actually build my next bike up from scratch. Jourdain, or anyone with the frame, could someone tell me how wide the downtube and seat tube are? From side to side?

I build Elves Vanyar Pro 2024 , with sram rival , carbon wheels and I love it , well worth it.

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

Glad it worked out we for you! 👍🏽

@MultiEski

8 ай бұрын

@@JourdainColeman how is your build ?

What are the best unbranded frames? Any recommendations

As for Chinese frames do your research. I have been riding a velobuild endurance frame with press fit bottom bracket. All good. Another frame from this brand has a threaded bottom bracket. I've have heard the threads were not cut cleanly. Probably poor or dull dies. But again I am very happy my endurance frame sofar and I also have put a 105 groupset on it. Everything fit with no extra work.

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

Good to hear that your frames have been all good 👍🏼

@renegadeflyer2

8 ай бұрын

@@JourdainColeman I just have one endurance frame with press fit BB . Good sofar. I have heard some complaints with the frames from this company, with threaded BB.

Regarding groupsets, have you tried Microshift? They only do mechanical, but my understanding is that they are solid purchases at a better price than the two big brands.

@cjohnson3836

8 ай бұрын

Most OEM non-Shimano/SRAM is MicroSHIFT. I've never had any issues with their stuff. Its pretty good if you want mechanical. Their best stuff in my opinion is some of the things that address niche compatibility issues. Like, they have a set of drop bar 11spd shifters that match the cable pull of Shimano MTB derailleurs. Really good for mullet gravel bikes.

@cjohnson3836

8 ай бұрын

Most OEM non-Shimano/SRAM is MicroSHIFT. I've never had any issues with their stuff. Its pretty good if you want mechanical. Their best stuff in my opinion is some of the things that address niche compatibility issues. Like, they have a set of drop bar 11spd shifters that match the cable pull of Shimano MTB derailleurs. Really good for mullet gravel bikes.

From my experience buying well known Chinese road bike frames I would give it a 7 out of 10. They’re lightweight, stiff, but quite uncomfortable to ride in my opinion particularly the Winspace SLC.

@pigupigu

8 ай бұрын

Strange viewpoint. After having lots of high end pinarello, sworks, cannondale etc i found the SLC2.0 to be one of if not the most comfortable frames ive had built up

@DDGB08

8 ай бұрын

That's a first, Cannondale and Specialized having an inferior ride quality to Winspace despite having a significantly larger R&D budget and winning racing heritage. I've upgraded my tires to GP5K 28mm with 65 psi pressure on my SLC 2.0 but no resolve.

Cool video.Im a fan of aliexpress!

I made a claim on my elves frame and they swaped it out with no problems. Elves also had great communication thru out

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

Thats good to know 👌🏼

I wouldn't risk anything without support in the country I live. They might be cheaper, but once things go wrong, you are on your own.

You did well to only get slammed with Import once. I would love to know how they decide what they let slide and what they don't.

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

Yeah, I agree. I'm not sure if that's because they know it is being sent to me 🤔 - I have a suspicion it's to do with package dimensions as well. I hope all is well with you Mapdec? 👍🏼

@Mapdec

8 ай бұрын

@@JourdainColeman all good. Been an epic year.

Warranty and support is important when buying a new bike. So I would not buy from Chinese retailers but I would buy accessories

@galenkehler

8 ай бұрын

Have you ever tried to actually claim a warranty from a big brand?

@highfived

8 ай бұрын

@@galenkehler yes giant uk never had a problem I put three claims no issues at all. Thank you

Love the rinasclta such a nice bike , would be lieing if I said I hadn't been looking at that frame set for my own Chinese bike build 😂 after watching your build looks like a fun and annoying process

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

Yeah, it does look the part! I wish I had gone for a Shimano groupset though. Maybe I'll upgrade in the future 👍🏽 - The build is all fun and games 😂

Isn't Shimano a Japanese brand from Asia?

@qwerty6789x

7 ай бұрын

yes but mostly their products are made in Taiwan, Malaysia or China. most known High end brands also source their carbon frame in Asia nowadays.

Those Ltwoo groupsets looks amazing value for money, I'm sure there's a few teething issues which will be sorted very quickly, but for £650 for full hydraulic disc/DI2 woah. I was going to build a bike myself, fortunately or unfortunately with Wiggle/chain reactions demise, they discounted a bike more than i could possibly build it (at the moment with known brands, SRAM). Cheers for the video, always interesting to watch/listen to over a coffee. 👍🙏

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

Yeah, the value is really good! I am hopeful that their quality improves over time and they can rival SRAm and Shimano. Right now I think they are doing a good job keeping Shimano and SRAM on their toes. If they slip up (like the Shimano recall) then they are ready to pounce. A few more iterations and learning and I think they will be a real contender (hopefully anyway) 👍🏽

@cjohnson3836

8 ай бұрын

Except its not full. It's excluding prices of cranks and such.

After many decades of using bike parts, I don't value warranty at all. The big brands will dodge warranty claims every time, so you're better off saving the money up front. Just ask shimano crank owners 😂

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

Interesting. I've not had to claim anything (luckily) and always wondered if would be a difficult process.

Actually... The Elves brand is so hype here in Philippines

What about the vanyar Pro Disc ? any update ?

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

That is next on the build list. I'm just getting all the parts now. Hopefully in November it will be complete 👍🏽

Asian frames and wheels are just as good. Been using them without issues and the best thing is I saved loads. BTW, Shimano is Asian, too. 😂

The only issues with Shimano have been Ult/DA cranks. Anyone on the market for CN components isn't even going to be thinking about Ult/DA anyways. Complete opposite sides of the socioeconomic spectrum. 99.99% of people will never have a problem with Shimano components and their entry level stuff is king.

What's the resale value tho?....if people don't trust them new then why would anyone buy a used one so really are you buying a cheap bike or expensive landfill?

I want to make a difference, when you say Asia is a bit too wide, I would have much more trust in buying product from Taiwan, Japan or South Korea than China. Taiwan is pretty big carbon frames manufacturer, lots of western brands have production there because quality is good. Also lolled a bit when you recommanded western groupset and talked about Shimano that's Japanese 😂

@myxti3669

8 ай бұрын

You realize China has the most carbon manufacturing in the world. Almost everything comes out of Xiamen, including all the latest technology, both quality and less so.

@pigupigu

8 ай бұрын

Every mass production carbon frame and wheelset from every brand comes from xiamen. Some go to taiwan for paint and export due to tariff reasons for markets like murica.

@BICIeCOMPUTERconGabriele

8 ай бұрын

Taiwan Japan and South Korea make products that are the same (if not even better) quality than the western countries ones

Should have built a rim mechanical build…. Less complicated, always have had great products buying Chinese open mould

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

I'm goig to do a rim brake bike soon I think 👍🏽

@KushPizzaSleep

8 ай бұрын

not even a Chinese things, all road bikes now are overly complicated and hard to assemble with proprietary parts, you should do a classic rim brake build with standard seat post, stem, bars ect! @@JourdainColeman

Can you show how you built the bike stand/hanger visible at around 00:08 ? I bet most people here have too many bikes and are in need for every tip to store them convenienctly

Is HYGGE MODEL S on your list? 🤓

@JourdainColeman

7 ай бұрын

I've not heard of them before. I'll have a look

@SaschaRissling

7 ай бұрын

they look sick, have great reviews and are incredibly affordable. also bsa 68 BB 😎@@JourdainColeman

Elves Falath pro ...sram axs winspace D67 selle carbon saddle co-efficient carbon bars...............as good as a sl7-8 hands down total build £3250

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

Sounds like a solid build... got any pics?

Western companies also invest in better Quality assurance.

why do you think ltwoo is a bad buy? I remember there were problems with bleeding. were there any other problems?

Granted we the consumer shouldn’t be the testers but I mean everything comes at a price. Then we complain about traditional bike brands being too expensive.

@JourdainColeman

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, I don't mind small issue that you can live with but in some cases the products simply aren't fit for purpose. Not that paying ££££ is any better.

£100 on your doorstep, that sounds like a scam to me (unless he had paperwork but this is done usually before). As the Ex-importer of one of these brands I can tell you most will mark the value down to avoid import tax for you the customer. However this means it can randomly be stopped or slip through. When I had the business we always used the correct invoice price and paid our taxes! Most I can tell you do not.

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

To be fair it was my usual DPD driver and he had the paper as well. They didn't take card though so I had to pay online and arrange redelivery. Not ideal but all seemed legit 👍🏽

@whitebeardcycles

8 ай бұрын

@@JourdainColeman arrrrgh sounds bit different when you put it like that. Parcel force did ours and a letter came through first.

Interesting I haven't had any issues with my Sensah 11sp

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

Good to know it working well for you 👍🏽

Is that true? Did the DPD driver ask you for money on your doorstep?

@JourdainColeman

2 күн бұрын

Yeah, there was import tax to pay on a frame. In the end, I paid it online.

@donovanvaz3289

2 күн бұрын

@@JourdainColeman Interesting, could you PM me please? I work for DPD. That parcel should not have been on the van for delivery until the import duty was paid. So I'd like to know what the driver was trying to do.

The real question is, super expensive western bikes, are they worth the money paid?

Big branded frames are overpriced. No reasons to buy them, only for design and color

Shimano is from Asia so an Asian setup is still good.

"Use western groupset... Shimano" lol

Import tax is the reason I’d never buy from Asia, I was robbed once by the tax people never again

Just the fact that Chinese people creates brands with the clear intent to mimic (badly) known western brands, keeps me away from that crap.

The answer is No

i had sue Alliexpress for a lose of over £400 its a sick crap company

Shimano is not a Western brand.....

@FuchsHorst

8 ай бұрын

but they have local distributors handling service and also, despite the crank recall, deliver an extremely solid quality even on low end parts.

@ht1881

8 ай бұрын

@@FuchsHorst It's still an Asian brand. Can't call them western brands in any way. Elves has an australian distributor too

@FuchsHorst

8 ай бұрын

@@ht1881 Shimano has literally factories in Europe

@ht1881

8 ай бұрын

@@FuchsHorst and Western brands have factories in Asia. The point is, shimano is Japanese.

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

Apples and pairs... They are well established in the west is what I was getting at 👍🏽

Shimano is also an asian brand lol

China need to pay you ? :)

calling shimano a western company is funny

All carbon bikes are cheap Chinese bikes you pay for the name

@HONOROFCOURSE

8 ай бұрын

Quality of the parts too

@HONOROFCOURSE

8 ай бұрын

Technical ability too

@HONOROFCOURSE

8 ай бұрын

Customer service too

Propaganda, ridiculing Chinese brands, but the fact is, both here and there, there are companies producing crap and those that make things that are often even better than those here... so it's such nonsense that makes no sense....

Have ltwoo erx and er9 Done 2000km on one bike and 3000 on the other. Works mint. No issues at all

@JourdainColeman

8 ай бұрын

Good to hear! Maybe you got a solid batch and not one of the first ones. Hopefully they can change my mind with the new versions they release