I kept score for a tourney in Allen Park,Mi in 1977 and Nelson Burton Jr was the only bowler that said " thanks for keeping score "

@georgemartin7262

Жыл бұрын

Good ole Thunderbowl

@Ramon-oy5fq

6 ай бұрын

No phones,no food,no problem.

@iamray09

5 ай бұрын

Thunder bowl.

@SuburbanDon

5 ай бұрын

Dick Webers style looks awkward to me. NB JR has a good simple style.

cool to watch. They aren't talking about oil patterns or using 50 different balls.. just roll that solid black ball down the lane and write that score with a pen.

@johngates450

5 жыл бұрын

Reminds me of starting out bowling in 1978. I had a rubber ball to start with . Then came the Colombiia yellow dot.. The only 300 game bowled I'm 33 years was in 1990. Was a urethane ball. After 1990 Monroe Bowl closed. Back in the days where you had to have a break along the way to shoot a 300 game. Loved it back when I was younger. Ended up bowling 2 perfect games in 99 plus 1 big tournament win.. Cant bowl anymore cause of injuries but have great memorys!

@bonniejohnson1518

4 жыл бұрын

much more of an exact skill back then, and a much higher maturity level within the common society...

@sludge4125

3 жыл бұрын

bonnie johnson Yes, and the colored people knew where their place in society was.

@20alphabet

3 жыл бұрын

Back then it was skill and technique. The participant was the paramount rather than his equipment.

@sludge4125

3 жыл бұрын

20alphabet It’s kind of funny how one bowler has dominated over the past decade. After all, the pro bowlers all have access to great equipment. Yet the same guy keeps winning most of the majors. Must be luck.

I just watched a video yesterday of Nelson Burton Jr bowling a 300 game at 80 years of age....

@waltergoraj5238

4 ай бұрын

Yeah I saw that too. He looked just as happy as ever. If you could name one person that would personify bowling it would be Nelson Burton jr. The textbook delivery, the mental capacity and perhaps the best commentator of the sport.

@aedin6397

3 ай бұрын

@@waltergoraj5238 Yes and also one of the first to recognize the importance of incorporating weight training into his bowling preparation.

Two of the classiest acts in pro bowling.

What I love about this, is I saw JUST 2 bowling balls on the ball return rack.

Loved the days when a simple manually written scoresheet explained it all. No FS1 graphics box featuring ball MPH, ball RPM, breakpoint board or position at arrows to clutter the screen, although Bo could easily explain that box himself to today's FS1 bowling viewers as great an analyst he became. Personally, I would've loved to have seen that box come out in the mid-70s and show legendary cranker Mark Roth's ball RPM during his prime.

@rockvilleraven

Жыл бұрын

When Bo was in the TV finals, usually Dick Weber usually filled in as the analyst.

@TomTimeTraveler

Жыл бұрын

I wonder if technology is such that they could somehow look at the old videos of Roth, Anthony, etc and determine all those stats?

This is the show that got me to fall in love with bowling. Every Sunday at noon when I was a boy. Brings back the best of memories!

@jakeo6928

3 жыл бұрын

The bowlers nowadays compared to the bowlers back then the old bowlers were better

@louiscsanko3673

Жыл бұрын

@@jakeo6928 It was tougher back then. No Urethane, No reactive Resin,.

@JonHop1

5 ай бұрын

@@louiscsanko3673 It absolutely was. Mopped lanes, Rubber balls. You couldnt hook the lane like that even if you wanted to.

@glennswiney185

5 ай бұрын

Ha! Me too every Sunday at noon😮 my dream is to bowl a 300 every year to 90 Year young

i love how the announcers are literally sitting right behind the players

I remember back in the day from about 1960 on, I used to watch Championship Bowling, 'Make That Spare' (which was a 15-minute program, I think on Saturday nights at 9:45 p.m. CST), and later The Professional Bowlers Tour which came on early Saturday afternoons CST. My favorite bowler was Dick Weber and I used his AMF 3 Dot, and Five Star bowling balls. Later I added his wrist brace. I learned to bowl by emulating Dick Weber and later, standing and starting my approach like Dave Davis and finishing like Dick Weber. I got to meet and bowl with Dick Weber on two different occasions in the late 1960s when PBA tournaments came to Milwaukee Wisconsin at the Bowlero Lanes. 72 Lanes. I think they had the second most Lanes in the United States. Before that time St Louis was the main hub of bowling then Milwaukee from about 1965 on before bowling lost it's popularity. R I P Chris Schenckel.

Two of the classiest professionals in the history of the sport. That being said, Weber was so pissed at the brooklyn and the nose dive tripped four in the center of Burton's game three 5 bagger he wouldn't shake Bo's hand following the post match interview.

Burton Jr bowling dad in '66 and bowling Pete in '84. Bo Burton Jr is freakin awesome.

@20alphabet

3 жыл бұрын

A knowledgeable bowler, no doubt.

@irishpogi

2 жыл бұрын

@@20alphabet who do you think was the better bowler? Nelson Sr or Nelson Jr?

@20alphabet

2 жыл бұрын

@@irishpogi Apples to oranges in techniques required for the different surfaces. But I'd have to give it to Jr. I knew Sr., though we weren't close, and met Jr. numerous times, bowled with both. If Sr. didn't have a "real job" it might have been different.

@PieFights

2 жыл бұрын

@@irishpogi Some of the people who you saw on the end credits also did the Championship Bridge series

@tomy5868

Жыл бұрын

@@irishpogi JR best teacher.

Bo Burton stayed in Great Shape for So many years. Bo Burton hit the Gym hard. Dick Weber( RIP) Classy guy & Hall of Famer🙏🙏

I always thought Nelson Burton Jr. was one of the best color commentators on the old PBA shows.

@mathewhorodner2000

5 жыл бұрын

I used to love listening to Bo Burton on the Saturday telecasts!

@rockvilleraven

3 жыл бұрын

@@mathewhorodner2000 He's a second generation bowler, his father Nelson Burton was on the early days of the pro tour.

@20alphabet

3 жыл бұрын

That's probably because he's the first you became familiar with, and it's been downhill since then.

@bufb

3 жыл бұрын

Bo was also easy on the eyes

@pugskins

3 жыл бұрын

Burton helped me with his tips

Wow such a different time

The greats of that era were true gentlemen. Not the chest-thumping, screamers of today. I wish civility would return to all sports.

@richelliott9320

Жыл бұрын

And everywhere else😊

@Asiaguydude

5 ай бұрын

All whiners today, especially Pete Webber

Interesting how much smoother Burton's release was a decade later. He was famous for an effortless style and I always figured it was a natural strength of his, but he must have put in a lot of work improving it.

@nelsonporter8387

3 жыл бұрын

Check out Burton Jr in the late 70's and early 80's . He had a set of guns!!

@louiscsanko3673

Жыл бұрын

@@nelsonporter8387 Nelson Burton Jr. Sure Did. He hit those weights hard.

@rockvilleraven

Жыл бұрын

@@louiscsanko3673 In one of his earlier days on the tour, he wore Buddy Holly glasses.

@johndurand2665

Жыл бұрын

The age of innocence and basics in bowling no drama just excellent technique. Loved the old bowling shows!

@rockvilleraven

Жыл бұрын

@@nelsonporter8387 He’s also the son of a former Professional Bowler, Nelson Burton, Sr. Bo’s younger brother, Neil was also on the PBA tour for a couple of years.

Thanks for showing these great videos.. You really needed to pay attention to lane conditions..Back in the day when you were a God if you bowled a 300 game in league play!

great bowling by some greats of all time I had never saw before

@garlinmiller5808

6 жыл бұрын

thanks for shareing those two great bowlers.

Lol bo looks like he's 12. Thanks for the post, funny.

Thanks for that #irishpogi . Aaahh those glory days of the 82-30 pinspotters and the magic circle ball returns.

@teejay6063

4 жыл бұрын

And the AMF 3-dot lol

Wow! simple black rubber based balls, only one ball used from each bowler, not three or four, no flashy bowling shirts with advertisements plastered all over them worthy of a race car driver, no "he man" shouting from the bowlers, a human hand writing the scores with a marker on paper, no two-handed bowling, and a respectful audience that aren't being obnoxious by hooting and hollering. Very much different from today's standards that's for sure. And yes, I'm old school, but I do like the newer bowling balls. The pin rack machine also appears to be one of the original styles of automated pin setters after pin boys were put out to pasture.

@HoffyRS

3 жыл бұрын

Uhhhh this was like 55 years ago.... you really think shits not gonna evolve?

@onemoremisfit

3 жыл бұрын

Automatic pinsetters weren't new in 1966. The AMF machines with the arrow indicators to suggest spare shot placement were the new thing here. Pin boys started losing their jobs to automation during the '50s.

@neilsnelling5447

3 жыл бұрын

@@onemoremisfit Thanks for the reply, but I think you might have misunderstood my comment. I became a junior bowler in 1960 and we had automatic pin setters back then. My comment was about the type of pinsetter I saw on the video that made me think it might have been an original one installed in the 1950s. Check out Top Star Bowling video #1. The announcer remarks about the new pin setting machine and ball return set up. That was in 1954. I learned to bowl from my grandfather and he started out with wooden bowling balls and pin boys.

@onemoremisfit

3 жыл бұрын

@@neilsnelling5447 My first game was circa 1967 so I never saw anything but automatic machines. Maybe you're thinking of the way those old AMF machines had no sheetmetal cover on the pin rack like the Brunswick machines had?

Nelson Burton, Jr. vs Dick Weber Two Legends going head to head, the true definition of “Championship Bowling”.

Fred yelling “no no!” on Bo’s 10th frame Brooklyn. Nice....😂.

I like seeing 1 handed bowling! Belmonte could never have thrown that way back then and been successful. He has about a 6-8 board strike area. On lacquer finish with the balls they had the great ones sometimes had only a half board area to carry a strike. Accuracy and speed with 16 pound balls only to carry those old solid wood pins. Now these pins have 2 voids in the center to make them fly. It was a mans game then. Now guys with the right equipment will average over 200. Those same guys would be lucky to average a buck sixty back then.

i havent looked yet but…if i find out that someone posted every Saturday afternoon abc bowling tourney from whenever it started til it became a farce…id be watching til the day i die.

Interesting to hear Nelson Burton Jr. referred to as a "youngster"! 😄

@steveboone1498

6 жыл бұрын

Back then he was in his early 20's and was one of bowling's rising stars.

@bufb

3 жыл бұрын

They referred to him as Nellie too not Bo.

I remember that there was a half hour version of the show that aired when it began midway through the second game. From a FYI standpoint, I have a friend that appeared on Championship Bowling who has several 8 X 10 photos from it displaying what the "set" looked like behind the scenes, complete with bogus walls for cameras.

@barrythomas615

7 жыл бұрын

You may be thinking of another bowling show at the time, "Bowling Stars" which was only 30 minutes long. I used to hate that show, because like "CB" the bowlers rolled three games to a match, but "Bowling Stars" would just show you the scores from the first game, then the score of the second game through 7 frames. then you'd see them bowl the rest of the match. What a cheat!!

@royplayer

7 жыл бұрын

That's because the USBC won't give anything now for a 300 game, which I can understand with thousands of them being rolled each year. Before, when they were giving out gold rings they wanted to make sure everything was on the up and up.

@fiddlefaddle1

6 жыл бұрын

pablo, you're wrong about that. The USBC will give out a 300 ring but only one time.

So many open frames from these two legends in that first game. Never thought I'd see Dick Weber roll a 172! painful to watch....

do u have the video of the 2nd 3game

It always amazed me that Weber was so good because he stood up at the line so much.

He was and is the great Dick Weber; Nelson was also great and carried on the tradition. Dave in Cleveland

Pure bowling skill and talent. No histrionics, no theatrics, no crazy shirts, nor anything else that marks the circus that is pro bowling today.

I would love to see the Legends reaction to two handed bowling.

@irishpogi

7 жыл бұрын

They'd get a good laugh

@migmag_9789

7 жыл бұрын

+irishpogi they'd get beat, XD

@americanborn1290

6 жыл бұрын

Dick weber had the worst follow threw ever but he made it work

@fiddlefaddle1

6 жыл бұрын

American born, Pete Weber will be coming to my town in a couple of months for a PBA50 tournament that I'll be bowling in. I've been wanting to talk to him about that fact about his father but, I think I'll bring it up after the finals, in case I have to bowl him or ask him to sign my pin. LOL!

@hlsmcw

5 жыл бұрын

Would love to see Belmo bowl a game on a pair of 1960s'-style wood lacquered lanes using only one black hard rubber ball and wearing classic King Louie gear (just like Dick and Bo did here). Would his two-handed bowling translate to success under such conditions? I say yes...he has performed well in 1970s'-style plastic ball tourneys.

Old v. New bowling... Old relied on shot making ability only. A consistent game was required to get results. New relies on ability to apply power into these over aggressive balls. I can watch the pros spray the lane with shots and still get results. Rotation and speed is the new game as consistency has taken a back seat.

@sludge4125

3 жыл бұрын

The only constant is change.

@onemoremisfit

3 жыл бұрын

These 2 didn't look terribly consistent here to me, struggling to find pocket, missed headpins, easy spares blown.

@billspruce8368

Жыл бұрын

@@onemoremisfit right... the lanes weren't walled up to the moon... the margin of error in this day was a board.. today i't's 10 boards. Pull your head out of your ass.

@TheBatugan77

Ай бұрын

​@@onemoremisfit Everyone has off days. You more than most, shitfit.

I would add Burton on any list of the finest commentator in any sport. Good looking guy, well spoken, entertaining and informative without a hint of being a condescending, arrogant jerk like too many in the broadcast booth are these days.

@johnhunter2294

Жыл бұрын

Burton was a fantastic color guy; he would explain the fine points of the game and the intricacies of scoring in clear and concise language. I learned more about bowling watching the ABC Pro Bowlers Tour telecasts than I could have with ten years of lessons.

Thx for posting the vid - fun to watch BB’s timeless swing. Now, please don’t be a tease and post the final 3 games!! Killing me ! Thx in advance 🤘

@irishpogi

4 жыл бұрын

When I get them in my position, I will be more than happy to share

This is when bowling was bowling! Shot making and skill, no longer the case! It was skill that you averaged 200, now everyone averages 200 with the hook in the box!

@earlcehrs2819

3 жыл бұрын

That is why I got out of bowling too easy

@peterschmidt8287

3 жыл бұрын

It only required a 190 average in 2 leagues to qualify to turn pro back in the 1950s.

@brianbartron2787

3 жыл бұрын

@@peterschmidt8287 only 190 was very good back then!! I averaged 190 when I was a senior in high school in 1978. It was tough to throw strikes then.

@HoffyRS

3 жыл бұрын

@@earlcehrs2819 if its too easy then you should be on the pro tour?

@HoffyRS

3 жыл бұрын

If yall say bowling takes no skill now which is fuckin absurd, why arent yall on the pro tour? Should be easy money?

Before the ridiculous ball technology made everyone a star.

@HoffyRS

3 жыл бұрын

Everyone except you?

@1ufcfanatic795

2 жыл бұрын

@@HoffyRS 🤣🤣

@TheBatugan77

Ай бұрын

@casualobnoxious Lick my ball technology.

Great video Irish, you wouldn’t happen to have the next week of this show posted do you? If you do I can’t find it on KZread

Can someone give me some insight on who the first person was to utilize the spinning technique that is pretty much standard in bowling today?

Is there a part 2 of this match? I would like to see it if it's on KZread.

Love it, Wolfe calls them, "The boys," 😆😆😆

I recall watching these matches on TV and the way they posted the score didn't make sense to me. I didn't realize they omitted the single ball pin count on spares and opens probably to reduce clutter. The way they format the 10th frame is also odd. You have 3 boxes and there are maximum possible 3 balls in the 10th, so when I write a score I put the first ball count in the first box, it would be either a numeral or strike. They put a spare mark in the first box and leave the 3rd box blank. It appears as though they are against writing a numeral for a single ball under any circumstances because the space to write the numeral is too small to keep it legible. The only numerals shall be the total score for each frame, total score for the line and the series scores.

Bo still seemed young in the 90s so it's odd to see him here in black and white!

Bo and Chris the best in the business

Burton wins 18 pro tournaments, including two majors, and earns about 750 grand over his playing career. How times have changed.

It's amazing that Dick Weber was so good considering he does not follow through.

@onemoremisfit

3 жыл бұрын

I was thinking same. He was bowling royalty, he forgot more about the game than I will ever know, and I was only 6 when he bowled this match, but I would not want to copy him even throwing a straight ball.

@teresavicario5848

10 ай бұрын

Not only does he not follow through, most of the time he steps out at the line, never posting a shot.

I swear every narrator/host from the 60's and 70's sounded the exact same way lol

I'd rather watch this old school black and white telecast with one bowling ball than the new telecasts with constantly joking commentary and cringe music playing after every frame.

Where in Akron is/was Bowlarama?

Did Dick Weber throw a bit of a spinner shot? I slowed the video down and it looks like his tilt is a bit more than some of the other bowlers at the time. I ask because I throw a semi-spinner myself and am trying to learn how to roll the ball more with increased revolutions.

@irishpogi

7 жыл бұрын

David Knight plastic balls were introduced to the bowling public in the early 60's. 1960 or 1961.

Before we had resin we had dirt off the shoe sole.I still have this habit today, makes for messy pants.

So great to watch real professionals. Nowadays you have to make noise at the right time to distract your opponents release and make them mad or spill a large cup of water as I’ve seen in the last few years. They used to be super strict on the pba or you got suspended.

@williamthomas1

5 ай бұрын

These Men were once referred to as Adults, they were everywhere.

Lol, times really have changed. Look how people dressed up to go watch professional bowling back then.

@20alphabet

3 жыл бұрын

Changed? You mean deteriorated.

@Jiltedin2007

3 жыл бұрын

Not too different to when Chris Schenkel did The PBA Tournaments on Saturdays on ABC.

@20alphabet

3 жыл бұрын

@@Jiltedin2007 His tenure covered alot of years. When he began, people dressed like you see in this video.

@Jiltedin2007

3 жыл бұрын

20alphabet Oh yes. I remembered Chris Schenkel doing College Football back in the 60’s.

@nelsonporter8387

3 жыл бұрын

Times are so different. When I bowled in leagues or tournaments I ALWAYS wore a 3- button polo shirt and dress pants. Guys I bowled against wearing Budweiser t shirts and camo cargo shorts.......

I’d give birth for one of those King Louis bowling shirts

@teejay6063

4 жыл бұрын

Lol

@sarpilot100

4 жыл бұрын

My dad had one of those shirts in 1965. Cool shirt

@michaelstusiak5902

4 жыл бұрын

I had one as a teenager. With blue stars.

Nelson Burton Jr puts a tremendous amount of roll on the ball.

this is by far the youngest i have ever seen Burton Jr. Couldnt be more than 20 here. Looks like dad taught him young…and very well.

Nelson with the Fabian pompadour

Next time I go bowling gonna wear cost and tie

Did he say he was averaging 221 !

Legends

They said that Nelson Burton, Jr. was born in 1943. He was actually born on June 5, 1942.

@artiehess7110

6 жыл бұрын

They were using the Canadian dating system, eh?

Back when people dressed like human beings not slobs

Hard rubber balls that didn't hook much.

the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

This was probably one of the last episodes of "Championship Bowling" to be shot in black-and-white. Or was the show being filmed in color by this time with black-and-white prints available for stations that couldn't yet transmit color film?

@pamelacass9642

4 жыл бұрын

Silly, everybody in attendance was required to wear black, white, or grey.

@sludge4125

3 жыл бұрын

Pamela Cass Yeah, but that one guy with blue eyes...

Remember when Adults used to exist n the world. My Grandparents were those.

I'm sure that way too many kids, that after watching this show with its low scores and lack of messengers flying all over the place, would consider themselves the better bowler.

When all you had was a good old rubber ball and it was basically down to acctresly.

I’ve always said that bowlers are the most intimidating athletes

Definitely a shot makers condition.

What was Nelson Burton Jr's dad's name? 😳

One ball!!!

Watch these shows from 1965 and you can see the lanes are WAY drier for some reason on the 1966 shows. Did they even oil?? Are they trying to limit the $250 bonus for a 5 bagger and then $50 for each after that? That was a lot money back then, makes you wonder why the stark difference in conditions.

@peterschmidt8287

2 жыл бұрын

Back in those days, it was dry lanes using black rubber balls. Some bowling establishment experimented with oil down in the pocket zone only to be then reprimanded by the ABC for doing so and disallowing some high scores including 300 games.

Balls back then had no carry power by eveidence of Weber leaving the 5 7 split.

@Joe_Friday

4 жыл бұрын

It also appears he has very little lift by his follow through or lack thereof. Of course he must have been doing something right but if I had his release and awkward slide the bowling coaches at my old alley would have jumped my ass.

@sludge4125

4 жыл бұрын

Joe, what if you bowled like Din Carter?

@dbkparm

3 жыл бұрын

The only thing on Weber's ball was the label.

Bo missing spares and splits..who knew lol

Bo looks a lot like Ricky Nelson.

@bufb

3 жыл бұрын

Rick and Bo handsome

Commentators: Fred Wolf & Bill Bunetta

The old style bowling equipment did a better job of showing a bowlers skill at consistency.

38 seconds of silence 🤔

“Dick’s ball seems to be sliding away from the pocket.” Seems like a personal problem to me…

to be honest, junior looked pedestrian at best here. his form was all over the place

Announcers sitting feet from Weber and Burton and yakking away. Seems odd.

WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? I am Mr Weber.

dick was the pro that i tryed too pattern my bowling after when i started bowling i am now 84 yrs old not much good any more but still swinging and still love the game

did this center become Riviera Lanes? home of FTOC

@sludge4125

4 жыл бұрын

Bowl a rama went through a series of owners before closing, according to my research.

@JSMount

3 жыл бұрын

No. Riviera Lanes is in Fairlawn, a suburb of Akron.

This announcer sounds like Ronald Reagan

@mathewhorodner2000

5 жыл бұрын

lol

@teejay6063

4 жыл бұрын

Lol

Announcer said Burton was high lol

Just realized, how come the bowlers back then, never wiped the balls off, like they do, since the late 70's???

@irishpogi

2 жыл бұрын

It's because higher volumes of oil were used to protect the lane surfaces once urethane and reactive resin balls were introduced to the public

@patbowlby2497

Жыл бұрын

There was no oil to wipe off!😀

@bnegs521

3 ай бұрын

Pete Weber never wiped his ball

While a good example of the sport / activity of keggling,, or bowling , if you prefer, for the layman,, those haircuts are a Johnny Unitis nightmare!

It’s amazing that Dick Weber had the success that he did with doing virtually everything wrong.

@sludge4125

4 жыл бұрын

No, he screws up *after* he releases the ball.

@soonerlegendspodcast

3 жыл бұрын

Guess y’all are on the PBA tour and won as much money as Dick has 🙄

@HoffyRS

3 жыл бұрын

@@soonerlegendspodcast it’s funny everyones saying how bowling today is so easy, and im like okay shouldnt you be on tour then??

@dirklerxstpratt2112

10 ай бұрын

@@HoffyRS Saying that it's much easier today, which it is, doesn't mean that you won't have people who are much better at it than others.

@HoffyRS

10 ай бұрын

@@dirklerxstpratt2112 bruh this shit 2 yrs old lol

6:59 😂😂😂

The good ol days when men were men and women weren't.

@dennisjacques8401

5 жыл бұрын

Gr ft u of nf

@teejay6063

4 жыл бұрын

Lol

@sludge4125

3 жыл бұрын

And the colored people knew their place in society.

@dirklerxstpratt2112

3 жыл бұрын

@Tone. OK Sooner

@dbkparm

3 жыл бұрын

And the sheep were nervous.

It's like watching Pleasantville...too bad you cut out the cigarette commercials...Is anyone else uncomfortable with the announcer continuously referring to Webber as the kid's "Master?" Seems fetishy to me...

@onemoremisfit

3 жыл бұрын

Calls them both boys too.

@sdarms111doug9

3 жыл бұрын

@@onemoremisfit LOL

That one bowler looks a lot like Pete Weber.

@AwesomeFilmsify

6 жыл бұрын

pablo lacruz probably because that’s his dad

@toscodav

6 жыл бұрын

Pretty sure Pablo knew that.

@mathewhorodner2000

5 жыл бұрын

;)

After watching this, Weber is NOT the bowler you want to imitate as far as approach and release of the ball. His follow through is non-existant, and he throws his arm to the right on release.

@timothyhodges705

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, but got his ball to hit as hard as the high rev players in his day. And there is this: 25 PBA titles!

amen. Too bad they turned bowling into the more you spend the better you score. That priced the majority of people right out.

This is very fake. ..They created insteresting games based on old footages and they pay actors to be the crowd.

Back when you had to be accurate.

dr 6-8-23