The main problem I see was when the controller told PRITB to enter left downwind, and the pilot read back 'cleared to land'. He wasn't cleared to land. The controller should have corrected him then, but she didn't. That started the whole cluster.

@charlesmoore1762

19 күн бұрын

Exactly! "PRITB, you are NOT -- Repeat NOT cleared to land. You are cleared to enter left downwind for 17L. Report mid-field. Please read back instruction." It would seem she did not have radar contact because when he said he was seven miles out, she asked him seven miles in what direction. So he was a ghost as far as she was aware.

@alienb1212

14 күн бұрын

She may not have heard it. I don't think it should be ATC's responsbility to decode the English language for pilots.

@dsexton1055

14 күн бұрын

@@alienb1212 "Understand " is a way of asking for confirmation of an instruction. My understanding is its more a non-US method, but ATC should be confirming the readbacks when wrong. Technically should have made him repeat the cleared to land segment on one of his short readbacks too. His readback saves him a corrective for sure.

@kmoore02809

12 күн бұрын

@@alienb1212 She said: 'Enter left downwind'. He responded: Clear to land That was very clear and should have generated an immediate response from the controller. The aircraft WASN'T cleared to land. There was another aircraft coming in on final, and that pilot turning base and final when he did cut off the aircraft that WAS cleared to land. If I'm on a downwind leg and the controller tells me I'm cleared to land, I take that as I can turn my base leg and final leg at my discretion and land. If I'm not cleared to land (which this guy wasn't), I can't turn base and final like that, because I might run into another aircraft (which this guy almost did). The pilot certainly made his share of mistakes, but it was the controller's responsibility to correct that pilot when he read back the wrong instruction.

@cpy

9 күн бұрын

I mean sure, but when was the last time I was flying with several planes in the pattern and got a landing clearance that early. Never.

she missed TBravo reading back cleared to land when she said left downwind report mid field

@RetreadPhoto

20 күн бұрын

37T didn’t read back 17L either, he’s just as sloppy.

@RetreadPhoto

20 күн бұрын

She said “you can’t do that” twice, as IF that’s specific enough for ANYONE to understand. And then when she was flustered she went 250 words per minute to a non-English speaker on IFR and already having issues following approach plates and directions.

@smark1180

20 күн бұрын

@@RetreadPhoto She also used CB gibberish, "stepped on."

@Ricky40369

20 күн бұрын

Not the best controller.

@charlesmoore1762

20 күн бұрын

Absolutely! She should have said, You are NOT cleared to land; repeat NEGATIVE clearance."

He said he thought he was cleared to land… controller didn’t catch his screw up.

@MrJoestudent

18 күн бұрын

I noticed that too, right away. She is "behind the traffic scene"

@garybono

13 күн бұрын

Yes, I noticed that. It was the controlled that screwed up but the pilot should have been listening and the he would have realized what was going on.

@georgewaldrop

5 күн бұрын

​@@garybononot entirely...BOTH were in error and BOTH were responsible. Yes, the controller should have caught it and corrected it, but the pilot was grossly in error as well, and failed numerous times to follow fars in not responding / not responding correctly to control instructions...I'd have brashered him and had a chat once on the ground...

One simple thing immediately stands out, The Controller ISN’T controlling anything! She is talking like a Tower but acting like a Unicom controlled airfield. Chaos is what happens when you do that…

@smark1180

19 күн бұрын

*"The [c]ontroller* ISN’T controlling anything! " I was thinking the same.

Pilot literally never reads back any instructions or clearances.

@Flight_Follower

20 күн бұрын

Yeah.

@BobbyBattista

20 күн бұрын

He did readback 17L cleared to land at 4:15, if that counts, but mostly didn't read back any instructions.

@tjfSIM

19 күн бұрын

@@BobbyBattistaIt doesn’t count because he wasn’t reading back the instruction.

@BobbyBattista

19 күн бұрын

@@tjfSIM fair :) also I’m glad to see someone use literally, without meaning “not literally” 😂

@tjfSIM

19 күн бұрын

@@BobbyBattista Ha ha! Yes I think it's fair to say 'literally' does apply here 😂

Why she didn’t give him the “I need you to call me” line. At my home airport KLNS a pilot with a thick Arabic accent flew his Pilatus PC-12 under the pattern and just landed without permission. I was on down wind and had to extend. The guy on final, my friend, told me later that he could actually see the rivets on the PC 12. The guy landed and acted as if he did nothing wrong….The tower gave him the phone number

As a tower controller you have to develop a sixth sense for pilots who will cause you trouble. This gut had that written all over. Clues are the bad English, stepping on transmissions, not making mandatory reporting calls and so on. This is exactly why tower control can much more stressful than IFR.

@final3119

14 күн бұрын

Everyone here had bad english

English as a second language pilot who has poor radio discipline. ATC definitely needs to coordinate traffic flow better.

The controller was completely disorganized but the pilot was grossly unaware of his surroundings. What a menace.

holy cow, what a mess that could have been - even bigger than it was

Fault on both sides here. Pilot not following instructions for sure. Tower controller missed a chance to stop the whole mess when he read back a clearance he never received and she didn't call him on it.

@gagewarner6502

13 күн бұрын

Because they didn't use the callsign. She probably should have said "what is your callsign" after that call, but, pilot not using the callsign was a huge issue there.

This is 100% on the controller. There is a controller at an airport near me that will repeat full instructions and make you repeat the read back if something is wrong or if you didn't include your tail number in the read back transmission. She does this even if there is no one else in the area. The first time she did it, I was annoyed. But I swallowed my pride and try to make proper radio calls all the time. She made me become better on the radio and I appreciate her for it.

She is as much to blame she let him slip in left downwind

I started my flight training at Flight Safety at Long Beach Ca. in 1972. They were training pilots for Garuda Indonesian Airlines that were starting with 0 flight time. My instructor reminded me that when I hear them in the pattern to be aware because the only thing they understood was "cleared to land".

PRITB did not read back several instructions given by the controller which she also failed to correct. sounds like it was a mix of pilot incompetence and controller error

It's sad, but controllers MUST be prepared to deal with idiots, cheaters, and dishonest people.

Never a fan of opposing circuits for a single runway. Especially a busy airport. Just a thought.

@ianshere8899

20 күн бұрын

We have it all the time at KGYR. It's no big deal if pilots actually listen and act on the instructions given. And North TX is actually parallel runways - 17L & R.

@RetreadPhoto

20 күн бұрын

@@ianshere8899 I’ve seen it work like clockwork, as long as the controllers are good and the pilots speak an acceptable level of English. She never told him he was number 3 behind the Seneca, never corrected him when he said “cleared to land” instead of “midfield downwind,” didn’t chastise him for not reporting it, etc. She basically ignored him. Had an opportunity to tell him to do a right 360 or extend his downwind for spacing. She was just getting her lips beat. May get better over time, it’s not an easy job. But getting flustered and freezing just makes it worse. As soon as she saw the guy was foreign she should have given him extra care and attention, not ignore him and let him do what he wants.

@AnonyMous-jf4lc

19 күн бұрын

Well then you better stay away from controlled fields

@leechjim8023

18 күн бұрын

TOOOOOO many foreigners in our airspace😮😮😮

@MikeDCWeld

11 күн бұрын

​@@ianshere8899sure, but it doesn't make any difference since they were clearly only using one of them.

"English Proficiency" doesn't belong on whatever certificate he has

GYI does not have radar so that is a contributing factor. Definitely makes it hard to catch when people don’t follow instructions

I was waiting for the tower controller to give PT-IRB a phone number.

Something to note here… there is actually TWO runways 17 L and R (the slanted one is not in use anymore). Unfortunately this field also doesn’t have radar so reliance on communication is heavy. The above is KGYI, North Texas Regional, used to be called Perrin Airfield.

Local controller doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Failed to hear pilot confirm landing clearance when one was not given. Froze up like a deer in the headlights when same aircraft turned base in front of another who was on about a mile final. Improperly sequenced arrival from the east behind the other aircraft turning crosswind when what she should have done was extend the departing aircraft's upwind to accommodate the downwind entry for the other aircraft coming from the east. Way too many position report requests for aircraft in the pattern. If she was properly scanning the pattern, these callouts would not have been necessary. Yeah, I know. She was only doing as she was taught.

I'm really familiar with this airport. Nearly had a head on collision with another plane here. Learned they have NO radar terminal environment there. Just binoculars. And combine that with a foreign student flight training company is a recipe for disaster.

The issue here, particularly in GA, is when you have a foreign pilot that it is not proficient in the phraseology flying into another country. Legally speaking you can pass a ICAO language test but still not be proficient in aviation lingo. This is a classic example. The aircraft has a Brazilian registration and the pilot is a Portuguese speaker. I know that for a fact since I am also a speaker. Moral of the story: don't BS and do your home work.

@user-lq7hf1ww3k

13 күн бұрын

Portugeese ? Eu understando clearo to lando, obrigato.. LOL..

Doesn’t help these controllers do not have radar. Mistakes were made on everyone’s behalf- that pilot probably should not be flying without some proficiency training

Controller lost control then panicked.

Dam, who would be a controller of general aviation traffic.

This sounds (literally) like a training airport popular with English-as-a-second-language student pilots? Is there a big training facility there, or multiple training facilities, that specialize in foreign students?

@cj20080

20 күн бұрын

Has to be. Although there are a ton of immigrants living in Texas. I moved from Dallas 40 years ago, but go back several times a year and it's a whole 'nother world now.

@MM-dk7gt

20 күн бұрын

​@@cj20080I can only imagine....smh

@RetreadPhoto

20 күн бұрын

@@cj20080 rich immigrants? Flight school is not cheap.

@RetreadPhoto

20 күн бұрын

@n578md2 maybe we should stop that. Why are we letting them risk out airways? Oh yeh, the almighty dollar.

@execatty

20 күн бұрын

A really bad training airport

Every time I hear that accent on frq, I immediately go on high alert.

Yikes😮. Gettin hairy there for a bit

@Flight_Follower

20 күн бұрын

😂😂

utter, utter, incompetence. That pilot must NOT be in the air at all.

How did she miss him reading back landing clearance?

I don't see two runway 17s in this graphic. You have to have two runways to have a left and a right.

@bryansimmons4550

20 күн бұрын

@n578md2 Tower is not calling for landings on 17R OR 17L. She is only instructing them of which traffic pattern to use and land on Rwy 17. Ideally, they should all be flying a standard left pattern for Rwy 17 (the longer left one), with traffic from the east dropping to pattern attitude and speed, then making a right 45 degree angled turn to enter the left downwind at midfield. Planes approaching from the left should cross midfield at least 1500 AGL then turn around to enter the left downwind to 17 the same way. Imagine the Indy 500 with all cars going in the same pattern except two, who want to do it backwards. This controller is making pilots look all over the place for other airplanes during one of the most dangerous phases of flight. She should be retrained, or removed to Ground. Maybe she can get them to taxi safely? After about 4 minutes of listening to that cluster, I would have announced I would be canceling landing and departing to another properly run airport at least 50 miles away. The wasted gas, time, and non-dinged-up airplane would be worth my life for sure.

What a flying circus!

@Flight_Follower

20 күн бұрын

Absolutely 😆😆

That controller was just as incompetent as the pilot.

Painful to listen and watch

@Flight_Follower

20 күн бұрын

Absolutely. 🙃

Interesting. First. Operating opposing traffic patterns is not normal but not a problem for a real seasoned controller. Second PIRB was told to report left downwind but answered that he was cleared to land. That is where the problem started. This lady is good but she just missed the answer from PIRB. Moved iron birds for lots of years. Retired. Most fun at this size facility.

Communication is a skill. Both sides made mistakes here. Accidents happen but this serves as a lesson that you have to stay vigilant on the radios. You have to be able truly listen and paint the picture of what’s going on for yourself. Especially in a terminal area.

What city or town was this field near it looks like the field by Bonham, ok it’s the one by Sherman

Wow, 487BK didn’t hear her go around or misinterpreted it to, if PRITB hadn’t mistaken her transmission as for him at the same time, that could have easily been a bad incursion or collision right there. Absolute chaos

These guys all sound like english is their second language.

@Hanna144

15 күн бұрын

Well PRITB is a Brazilian call sign...

@RealDavidN

5 күн бұрын

Lots of international flight training students at this airport. The ESL factor apparently leads to excitement some days.

Gee, I cannot see the common denominator for all these airport incidents? 😂

Why is there right and left traffic? What am I missing?

Responding a clearance you were not given, makes you the idiot and does not reflect on the controller, it’s nice when they catch it, better if you do and even better to open your eyes and see traffic or know where it is.

Meh, not sure I can completely side with the controller on this one. Apparently the plane was on an IFR flight plan and had been cleared for a visual approach.

@CaptSugman

20 күн бұрын

Clear the approach is not cleared to land.

@oliverracz2686

20 күн бұрын

ATC is not supposed to clear an aircraft for a visual approach unless the pilot reported the preceding traffic in sight and is instructed to follow it, right? I don't think they were told to follow any specific aircraft, at least not that I heard.

PRITB gave a totally wrong read-back. When told to report mid-field left downwind 17L, he read back "clear to land." Now, how do you get that mixed up, even if English is your second language? I wonder if he did that on purpose hoping to have a quick landing. The controller didn't catch this and moved on to the next plane. Now, you can fault her for not catching it, but the pilot should know that he was in class-D airspace and he certainly could hear the tower talking to other planes, including one that was already on final. At the very least, even if you think you are cleared, you need to sight that traffic and get behind it. What PRITB did was simply against everything in the training. I'll entertain the possibility that he could be very clueless about class-D operations, or maybe he just didn't care, or he was too old a guy to admit he didn't hear what a girl said.

@briansmyla8696

20 күн бұрын

He was IFR, everyone else was VFR. Does that make a difference?

@wildgoose419

20 күн бұрын

@@briansmyla8696 He was definitely not IFR. You don't do the 45 degree entry to downwind in IFR operations. You would follow tower instructions and the established instrument approach procedures on the appropriate chart for the specific types of approach to be executed. No instrument approach procedure would make him fly the path he did. His head was just not screwed on right.

I can’t be the only person here that thinks that ATC personnel talk WAY too fast, considering that the information they relay is so critical to the safety of persons in those aircraft AND on the ground.

The diagram was starting to look like a shell game for a bit. I lost track of who was who!

No number to copy?

I sure would not want to be that controler!

Bit too relaxed by pilot and ATC.

does a tower like that not have radar? If they do, how could the controller not notice?

@aaronmaynard42

9 күн бұрын

No radar at this airport

Since when does “report downwind” mean “cleared to land”??

No "Possible pilot deviation. Please have a pen ready for a phone number to call." ?

@charlesmoore1762

19 күн бұрын

Would have been a waste of time. He was intent on doing WTF he wanted to and her best bet would have been to re-sequence the other guys and concentrate on getting his a$$ on the ground and out of the way! I'm glad I was a few hundred miles away from there while all that was going on!!

Tower isn't doing anything to control traffic. This pilot ignored or misinterpreted everything she told him and she wasn't correcting him. I'm not sure who was worse.

So many of these incidents involve “pilots with accents”

@josegregoriogonzalez874

16 күн бұрын

I think there is a better way to describe the situation. As a foreign pilot myself that is fluent in several languages, it can be challenging to understand fast talking controllers in busy airspace. Nevertheless it is your duty to ensure your proficiency before you go flying. We all have “accents” and just depends where you are. I do remember an USAF C-130 that landed in Patagonia few years back with no clearance just because no one on-board spoke proper Spanish…so yes, it can happen to anyone.

@theconcorden

15 күн бұрын

@@josegregoriogonzalez874 Well said. Muy bien dicho!

Poor from all involved, ITB and the controller.

What a clusterfuck

Drugs are bad.

@Flight_Follower

20 күн бұрын

😂😂

@prs44

19 күн бұрын

the great prophet rick james was right.....cocaine's a helluva drug

😮😮

RT discipline is horrendous.

I wouldn't exactly call this chaos...

Why does the graphic show a single runway but the controller is saying 17 L as if there is a parallel runway?

@HammondGaming

20 күн бұрын

Future Expansion: The airport may plan to add a parallel runway in the future. By designating the existing runway as "left" (L), they leave room for a "right" (R) runway. Historical Reasons: The airport might have had multiple runways in the past, and the labeling has been retained for consistency or regulatory reasons. Consistency with Nearby Airports: To avoid confusion with nearby airports or to maintain consistency within an airport complex that includes multiple airports, a single runway might be labeled as "left" or "right." Operational Procedures: Some airports use these designations to align with standard operational procedures or air traffic control practices.

@Eserchie

20 күн бұрын

as Hammondgaming says, many reasons. In this case, Historical Reason - 17R/35L technically still exists, but isn't used much, as it's half the width of 17L/35R and has had useable length decreased to about 1/3 it's original, only going from taxiway Bravo to Echo, with the South end completely ripped out, though you can still see where it was.

@davidjose9808

18 күн бұрын

@@HammondGaming

@HammondGaming

18 күн бұрын

@@davidjose9808 yes?

Aviation is self correcting...his days are as short as his flying skills....

This is very close to me and is the usual nonsense of flying here ,from both pilots and the controllers . Supprised there isn't more crashes than there are .

A swarm of foreign students.

“English proficient” What a joke

Maybe she doesn’t need to be flying anymore more

The numbers on the planes are too small.

Does the controller not have visual contact with these planes! She doesn't have control of this airport or the aircraft using it!!!

North Texas Airport just got a new name : Monty Python's Flying Circus

When did North Texas move to Mexico City or Haiti? Might as well hire an international controller at this point. 7 of the 8 pilots here are not native speakers, by FAR. And why in the HELL was the incompetent pilot in ITB not given a tower number to call? He hd at least 3 possible pilot deviations. And what IFR approach was he on? VOR-A circle to land is on radial 110, not 130. He never reported a VOR or visual approach.

@pyme495

20 күн бұрын

And China, and apparently a few other places. That's a controller's nightmare.

@CockMcBallsddd

20 күн бұрын

I'm pretty sure one of those guys is Asian and one is Indian.

@RetreadPhoto

20 күн бұрын

@@pyme495would not be surprised if she asks for a transfer out of that melting pot.

@RetreadPhoto

20 күн бұрын

@@pyme495and one has a stutter to boot!

@johnnyappleseed5029

20 күн бұрын

Yes, exactly. And another glaring example that not all cultures are equal...... Apparently, flight schools will push along anyone who can pay the tuition, which these days is mainly foriegners. And we all know why

You can't fix stupid.... on either side.

Sounds of foreign student with total lack of understanding ..

Another Brazilian….i know the accent. Wow….

None of the pilots seem to have a clue. Bunch of coked up joyriders.

@pesto12601

19 күн бұрын

ATC screwed up by not extending downwind... she is out of her element... and left and right procedures in play... a disaster ready to happen!!

@markadams7328

18 күн бұрын

@@pesto12601 I agree! It's sad, but controllers MUST be prepared to deal with idiots, cheaters, and dishonest people.

Are Cessna pilots inferior to non Cessna pilots?

Yeah. Not American accent. Americans did not learn from 9/11. Americans need that lesson again.

She has a pretty voice.. Not sure about her ATC controller brain and ears thou... Some of these guys defenitely are "ESL" communicators, and not very good at that!

@AerachCherry

10 күн бұрын

It’s not exactly something we deal with a lot at GYI. I fly here and rarely hear that many ESLs at once. That being said I’ve also heard our tower successfully navigate lost ESLs and run the airport simultaneously. It’s not unusual to have only one controller here for an entire 12 hour shift, but lately we’ve had the luxury of having two. I normally (but not always) hear her on ground. She might have got overwhelmed with calls. Not an excuse but FWIW it’s normally not like that here.

Gut wrenching! Caused by one of those “Newcomers”?

@briansmyla8696

20 күн бұрын

He was headed to 'Texas Turbine', so he probably frequents the airport, and is a commercial pilot.

gee....i wonder if foreigners speaking poor english is a problem

It's hard enough to understand Americans on the radio. It's really hard to understand guys with these accents.

Show me a Cessna pilot who does not cause chaos and I'll show you a couch potato on his simulator. 🤣

It was the controller's fault.

@senseisecurityschool9337

20 күн бұрын

The controller's errors are hers. PRITB's decision to not read back anything, to not follow instructions, to ignore transmissions to them, and to instead "follow" instructions given to other pilots are all on PRITB.

@smark1180

20 күн бұрын

@@senseisecurityschool9337 "PRITB's decision to not read back anything," You're misrepresenting what happened.

@senseisecurityschool9337

20 күн бұрын

@@smark1180 That's a straightforward fact - they didn't read back most of what they were supposed to read back. That's not an opinion - listen to the tape. They didn't read back. Then they turned left into the traffic which was turning left to avoid them. Again, that's clearly on the tape. It's not a possibility or an idea, they clearly stated they were turning left, after ATC told the other plane to turn left in order to avoid PRITB.

@smark1180

19 күн бұрын

@@senseisecurityschool9337 "PRITB's decision to not read back *anything,"* "they didn't read back *most* of what they were supposed to read back." That's better.

You need to speak and understand English. These close calls seem to be a lack of English.

Diversity is our strength.

@oliverracz2686

20 күн бұрын

It's a Brazilian registered aircraft, probably with a Brazilian pilot. International traffic has nothing to do with your diversity.

@weldonschmidt

20 күн бұрын

Not in this case apparently

@stevengerard7371

19 күн бұрын

Diversity has nothing to do with general human stupidity. Saying shit like this makes you sound like a white supremacist

Does anyone speak English clearly? Sounded like a foreign country!!

Terrorist in training???

just train these dam foreign students in their country pls. This no sense has to stop.

DEI wins again.

Sounds scary hearing all the foreign accents...

@trapy3550

20 күн бұрын

LMFAO 😂

@Flight_Follower

20 күн бұрын

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂