So you're saying Rin doesn't fit into or rather is quite ... alien ... to the world of Catherine? I guess they succeeded then, didn't they?

I still love that Rin was added, because he was a breath of fresh air from the other two options who are literally just outright abusive. I understand the whole "they have character flaws" point But raping a drunk person, physically assaulting someone for cheating, and baby trapping one's boyfriend are things that should instantly end a relationship. The whole "make it work" with an abusive partner is not a good message at all. Realistically, Vincent should not try to make it work with Catherine or Katherine

@UnravelGhoulx

4 жыл бұрын

MrAnthonyIII This sums up my thoughts right here, when it came to emotional support Rin just outshine the other love interests, if Rin wasn’t there I would probably just pick the freedom route tbh because both Catherine and Katherine was unappealing as endgame routes.

@brianvaira486

4 жыл бұрын

I agree. That’s why the space ending was my favorite in the original game.

@acidicali7776

4 жыл бұрын

I don’t see Katherine’s flaws as a relationship ender. Since she didn’t lie about the possibility of being pregnant initially, and she eventually told the truth herself. She just wanted to see how he would react. Either way, its more realistic to make it work with someone like her than with Catherine.

@MrAnthonyIII

4 жыл бұрын

@@acidicali7776 Yeah I agree Katherine isn't as bad as Catherine. But fortunately in Full Body, I don't have to settle for either of them

@acidicali7776

4 жыл бұрын

MrAnthonyIII I guess, but don’t you kinda see Rin and Vincent’s relationship as weird? Like, he’s such a mature and sometimes vulgar guy. It’s just weird seeing him get with a guy who has a child-like innocence and pureness imo.

To sorta expand on your thoughts on the end. I kinda do feel like Rin's inclusion not meshing as well could also be a metaphor for homosexuality. It exists outside of the determined scales (heterosexuality) presented and is something else entirely. In a society that deems heterosexual relationships as the norm, the opposite would be alien (get it omg omg omg). I still think its fair to critique the lack of snyergy, but its an interesting artsitic expression, I think. I also think thats why Rin is so picturesque/anime like. As a sorta gotcha moment, where you now have to question how important societal or personal standards are to love. Ive alluded to it by that may also be why Rin is an alien, a classic metaphor for something completely new and different from our preconceived ideas.

The way I see it is this: Catherine=physical/sexual ideal Katherine= Mental Ideal Rin= Emotional Ideal So, of course when it comes to choosing a “love interest” Rin is the best fit. Love is based on emotion causing her to have the biggest (unfair) advantage over the other two ladies. Unless you finish the other girl’s routes, you don’t see that emotional side of the relationships until the endings. For example, in Katherine’s good ending where the choice you made feels like the right one because there is a softness and down to earth element. It’s just that softness is displayed CONSTANTLY with Rin.

@JoJo-xp6wr

4 жыл бұрын

Morally, I can't take the Rin route, because I would make vincent end up gay, and although I was in love with Rin as a character, I was shocked when I knew her secret, so yeah!

@SirSvotter

3 жыл бұрын

@@JoJo-xp6wr I think you missed the point of Rin's "big secret" being there in the first place...

@JoJo-xp6wr

3 жыл бұрын

@@SirSvotter I believe so, can you explain it to me?

@SirSvotter

3 жыл бұрын

@@JoJo-xp6wr Well from what I understand, Vincent is a pretty heterosexual dude, with heterosexual desires. But being straight doesn't necessarily mean that there is no way you will eventually fall for the same gender. It's about looking beyond your own boundaries and opening up the possibility to something new. Vincent fell in love with Rin's personality, he didn't want Rin to be a male, yet Rin can't change the fact and wishes deeply for Vincent to look beyond his own boundaries.

@JoJo-xp6wr

3 жыл бұрын

@@SirSvotter oh, acceptance, you mean? I understand!

I remember watching let's plays of the original Catherine a couple of years ago (when I was too young for it). I haven't played it myself until just a few weeks ago, and Rin ended up being my first route. I definitely understand how Rin seems to impede upon the original story's narrative... but it was appreciated. I tend to repeat the same behaviors and habits, and instead of the original Catherine's endings (which I still need to experience myself), I was given the "what if" ending. An ending that tells me to try something new. We all grow and learn differently, and I feel like this additional story told me what I needed to hear.

Rin is absolutely my favorite character in Full Body and I'm so happy he was added into the game. Not just that, but we see a peaceful and healthy end to Vincent and Katherine's relationship where they grow up a little and still remain friends after the fact. I was disappointed with the goofy alien twist, but I accepted that the game - for it's mature themes and storytelling at times - is ultimately a goofy anime game that doesn't take itself as seriously as I was. Nonetheless, I'm really happy for Rin's inclusion and hope we all find someone that makes us feel comfortable in our own skin and expands our world like Rin did for Vincent.

@PostMesmeric

11 ай бұрын

I think that's a good way of looking at it. I know there are folks who find a lot of what Atlus does to be honed squarely in on the otaku demographic (sometimes at the games' own expense), and while Rin's character design seems to reinforce that direction, the story itself has a positive message behind it. It's goofy, but not in a self-deprecating or cynical way. It's sincere or it at least feels that way. Thanks for sharing your perspective. I'm glad Rin's story resonated with you in a fulfilling way.

@aletanook

10 ай бұрын

I don't think Catherine was ever that goofy. It has some comedic moments, but it is a drama for the most part. Even the comedic and fantastical elements never felt that silly or over the top. So yeah, the silly cute alien stuff was weird and the whole scene felt like something out of a silly kids cartoon.

@checkmate3735

2 ай бұрын

Funnily enough, I’d say the bad ending where Rin temporarily leaves Vincent is unironically better than the true ending. Not just because the alien stuff isn’t revealed, but because it’s more grounded and aligns more with the themes of the game. The true ending felt a little too idealistic with Vincent and Rin living happily ever after, where the bad ending implies that Vincent still needs to work on himself

As a Kathryn in real life, who resembles a Rin right down to the outsider/struggling identity issues who only wants acceptance, I can really relate. I really wish there were more guys like Vincent out there. It would make all the Rins of the world very happy to have someone to love. That said, I'm more of a Rin who is dating another Rin, so to speak. I'm not alone or lonely, but I know there are many lonely folks out there. I wish for all of you to find happiness wherever it may be, as long as it isn't hurting yourself or anyone else. Love and acceptance can go so far. I'm downloading this game now. I forgot it came out on 7/7 for the Switch, so I missed out and had to wait. No biggie. Very excited though!

@xoDaniell3

2 жыл бұрын

ywnbaw

@aletanook

Жыл бұрын

Vincent really is a sweet guy. I feel like people give him a bit of a hard time when he acted similarly to how anyone in an abusive relationship (one with an invisible succubus by the way so that makes things even harder) would act like, even men. Men are constantly expected to act aggressive and assertive all the time. I think if Vincent were a woman, people would care less about how naive and wimpy he was. I don't usually like passive characters but I think Vincent is a well-written and complex portrayal of one considering the relationships he was in. Most passive characters are passive for the sake of passivity. And yes, Vincent makes mistakes but he feels genuine guilt and tries to be a better person throughout the game. He's just a confused, traumatized dude afraid of the consequences of his actions. Depending on the player actions, Vincent never meant to cheat, at least not unapologetically. I think this dude can do well with a lot of therapy.

@fightingmedialounge519

Жыл бұрын

​@@aletanook most passive aren't passive for the sake it. Their story just isn't written around their passivity like it is for Vincent.

To summarize all of Rin's dialog into one word; "Vincent?"

@kittylitty01

8 ай бұрын

That’s just incorrect

Thanks for your video. That's exactly my thoughts and the reason why I like the original Catherine more than Full Body. Rin should have been in another new game instead of a remake / definitive edition. I would love to see other small projects from this team. That's my wish since I played the original game.

Really nice analysis. I found myself agreeing with a lot of your points. I still love Catherine: Full Body but I do feel like the Rin character should have had some actual significant flaw like the other 2 love interests so that both Vincent and the love interest he ends up with would have to both grow and compromise in certain aspects to make their relationship work. Rin's story is just too idealistic both character-wise and in the route: the story ends with Vincent and Rin literally making everyone in all the galaxies happier! While acceptance is a nice message and lesson for the Rin route, it has an obvious correct and incorrect answer, unlike the freedom vs stability argument where things are a lot more grey. Anyway, I would love to hear your thoughts on the new endings for Katherine and Catherine and how it fits into the overall story and their characters.

As someone who is non-binary and not always understood by those in traditional relationships... Rin's path is very well done. I like how you focused on the concepts of intolerance and the friend group all coming to grips with the relationship. Sometimes people don't fit into those usual norms and standards and I think they used Rin's path to show that people like Rin aren't actually that unusual.

@checkmate3735

7 ай бұрын

Aliens aren’t special. In the vast universe, we’re all aliens

I'm compelled to say now that I wish Rin was part of her own stand-alone game :( I wonder if Atlus is ever gonna release another game in the Golden Playhouse universe, after hearing your criticism it seems to me that Rin was a missed opportunity to explore what her route's themes within a brand new environment when it makes more sense for her to exist. I agree with you that by creating a comfort zone for Vincent, his other two relationships lose strength and as a love square, they don't really affect one another too much.

You make some good points. I think the tried and true Atlus method of adding a new character onto the pre-established plot was going to be a problem no matter what. Out of all the games I've played that Atlus has done this with though I think Rin was something of a best case scenario. Sometimes these characters can be ignored but Rin definitely can't since Catherine is a very story intensive game. So the fact that they lay into this integration by making Rin as unignorable as possible while having the other shoe drop about their big secret is interesting. It does feel tacked on though, especially at the end where Rin disappears from the plot if you don't pick their path. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that Rin's integration is a case of Atlus trying to please everyone, those who are interested in Rin and those who think Rin is pointless/antithetical to the original story's method. As opposed to them being lazy with Rin's Integration. One thing I will say though is the blowback this game got leading up to its release was incredibly ridiculous and mostly unfounded. Maybe that's part of the reason I was more soft on this route than you were. Rin being pretty cute probably helped too but you know w/e

You nailed it right on the head. I always wanted to express how out of place Rin was and I hated it. It felt like a different game when Rin is involved, and they shoehorned Rin into the plot soo much to the point where they tried to make it seem like Rin was the one who saved the other sheep when originally *Vincent* was the one who went around saving everyone, and he saved himself, *not* thanks to Rin. Rin's story literally messes up the entire purpose of the original game's plot and story. Rin should've existed in another Catherine game not related to Vincent's already done story with an entire new character and story that fits Rin's story. But I get it, Rin's existence in Catherine Full Body was to pull in newcomers and oldcomers that are interested in the new content.

@JohnWilliams-wl9px

3 жыл бұрын

I personally like to think Rin’s was designed because they knew by default the new character (since it seems all of Altus releases adds a waifu character) would standout, thus came up with Vincent needing to accept Rin for who they are.

Nice video, great work, keep it up my dude

You ever notice that people talking in videos like these are similar to writing an essay?

@sblbb929

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, thats why this format is officially called video essay.

I love this video so much, your thoughts and the way you deliver them are so inspiring. This relaxing/analyzing vibe is just what I needed to relax, before going to work. Great job, sir! Thank you for your wonderful video and have a good day. 😌

You hit the nail on the head. Rin is a great character and in any other game she would be great. But not in Catherine. In Catherine she sticks out like a sore thumb. I had the biggest eyeroll, when she appeared out of nowhere during one of the early climbs. She just feels so out of place on the landings inbetween stages. People might say that Rin represents letting people help you in hard times, but Vincent already had with the other sheeps that he can talk too on the landings.

@MomoKanjaki

4 жыл бұрын

Agreed.

I wonder if you going to review superheroes games

I know it's kinda shallow but I actually appreciate the change with Rin. I think it's very welcoming in a game full of cynical and negative assholes. Vincent's other friends are also not very supportive toward him and while Rin might be too naive to offer the kind of therapy and guidance he needs, it's still nice to see her reaching out to him with understanding and kindness more. It also made Vincent a more likeable character by showing a much more caring side amidst all the flaws and anxiety he shows. I didn't care that much for the original Catherine and Vincent was kinda whatever to me. I think he's a well-written character, but he's not as likeable as he is in Full Body. And it's not like Rin changes much of Vincent's story either, Vincent's anxieties are still ever-present and are still dependent on the player.

what would the boys think

@henryconner3002

3 жыл бұрын

Boy here: Visible Confusion

@hoangvuminh6436

3 жыл бұрын

Well to be honest she has all values, personalities,.. of a woman that we men needs but the problem is she has that "thing" so she doesn't fit for men who need sex only the ones who want emotional relationships like romance novel love her

@hoangvuminh6436

3 жыл бұрын

Most of men at first first playthrough choose Katherine for the right decisions but next time they will get bored and choose Catherine instead and Catherine is the type of woman in men's desire-freedom, sex,... Anyone disagree with me and claim that you will stay true for Katherine you're welcome to speak your mind

@reaperbunny7794

3 жыл бұрын

Nice 👍🏼 I boy

Rin is best waifu

I like that we're all in agreement that rin and thier route is good but in the greater scheme of the game itself it doesnt entirely mesh well which is very sad bc imagine how much btter thier route could get and its already really good(also yay more representation)

@PostMesmeric

2 жыл бұрын

Rin is a good character that, honestly, deserved better. The end result just needed a bit more room to really flourish to make it the most apparent and natural that the story could be.

So, they basically made a waifu that feels completely disconected from the rest of the game, and actually hurts the original story.

@mcoupe69

4 жыл бұрын

Vincent’s Baifu gives him cosmic bronerZ

@tonyknighton4019

4 жыл бұрын

This is pretty much the standard for (almost) any Atlus/Megaten entry that gets a enhanced updated port.

@henryconner3002

3 жыл бұрын

@@tonyknighton4019 let's hope SMT Nocturne isn't ruined

@tonyknighton4019

3 жыл бұрын

@@henryconner3002 I saw the first trailer for the remaster and it seems like it's in good hands (aside from voice acting but that can always be turned off.). But yes. Let's hope not.

@hartfantom

3 жыл бұрын

Y’all cry and whine like bitches 😂😂😂. Grow a pair.

So in summary, it was a good idea but it was poorly executed

What about the whole gender controversy? it was one of the things that made me more worried about the game, since atlus was never really good in dealing with LGBT characters

@PixelPoizon

4 жыл бұрын

Gay person here, I played through the Rin ending, I think the gender and the relationship with Vincent was handled well and in a realistic way. I wish they would have given him some pants, Kathrine wore pants so I don't see why Rin cant. I guess my only issue is they didn't have to hammer down so hard on his femininity

@Jourihara

4 жыл бұрын

@@PixelPoizon so its a he? I was not abble to play the game yet. For the trailers It all seemed like a classic cliche of a otokonoko character, and since they made some weird things with erica my expectations were really low

@PixelPoizon

4 жыл бұрын

@@Jourihara Ya, Rin doesn't dance around it, he flat out states that he's a guy when Vincent askes. Rin isn't trans he just likes to dress that way, which is totally fine, I really didn't see any controversy here. Even Vincent coming out was on point, mirroring in a lot of ways my own experience with that

@Jourihara

4 жыл бұрын

@@PixelPoizon oooh, i see. thanks

@atoya_

4 жыл бұрын

Rin isn’t human so she can’t be a male or a female, I think it’s a sexless angle

Theory... first Catherine cheated on Vincent first. How’d she get pregnant? We never see her in bed with him. Only the 2nd Catherine. Js

Two rebuttal/ interpretation on Rin. I feel like for them and the cliche anime look and personality could have been a growing point for the character pre transition. The pink haired anime girl is everywhere in anime, so that could be a stepping off point for Rin developing their feminity. For how they doesn't fit in the main story is indicative of their self. She isn't an average person, sure your in a "hetero presenting" relationship with them but that doesn't change their trans, their relationship isn't like an average one. Like I said an interpretation and reading way to far into things. (Sorry for the wall of text. I have been thinking of this for way to long)

@hoangvuminh6436

3 жыл бұрын

Well, she has all values, personalities of a woman that we men need. Almost a perfect woman in my dream and other dudes's too except... she has that "thing"

@djneonreaper4990

3 жыл бұрын

Ok just because a boy dresses as a girl doesnt make them trans(i think)

@brightkharma

3 жыл бұрын

@@djneonreaper4990 gender expression varies from person to person. I should probably replace "she" with "they" Thanks for pointing it out

@djneonreaper4990

3 жыл бұрын

@@brightkharma mhm because some boys that dress like girls are femboys or just crossdressers

@manriquezodgerslucianoanto7475

2 жыл бұрын

rin is not trans, he is gender non-conforming though

I haven't played this game, but for what I've heard I have a big problem with it, and it's the fact that anyone who is not conforming to stablished societal ideals will not be the perfect waifu. This is such a common issue with representation and I haven't seen an instance where Rin would really deviate.

@DevaAshera

4 жыл бұрын

Having played the game, and as a pansexual trans woman, I think they did Rin well, as well as Vincent's realization that gender didn't matter to him romantically and it was just societal pressure/norms that made him only consider women romantically.

@henryconner3002

3 жыл бұрын

@@DevaAshera FAN THOERY TIME!!! Vincent and Katherine is the canon shipping and their son is Akira/Ren. Evidence: DNA Vincent: Black Hair, and weird things happen to him Katherine: Sass, Grey eyes, and glasses There you have it

Rin is forced on the player. It's screaming please look a gay character! Pick him

This is like eww for me and in a boy