Thanks for the information and video. I follow you and Eric . Both of you have some great information about reloading and shooting.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

@barrygrant2907

3 жыл бұрын

Ditto

Good video John! People need to be aware of this issue and what causes it. 💪

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks 👍

Good information John and a great follow up to your last video. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you find it helpful.

One of the best reloading videos I’ve seen! Thanks for the info.

@FClassJohn

Жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Thank you for another informative video. You and Erik Cortina are amazing in how you share the good accurate information for those of us wanting to learn before getting into the game

@FClassJohn

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the kind words

Great explanation - Thanks for clarifying this process for me.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

I've just come to realize how important this subject is, and your video sealed the concept. Very glad I ran across this video and will be subscribing from here on. Thanks very much.

@FClassJohn

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the kind words.

Awesome video, thanks for sharing this!

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

No problem. Glad it helped!

Great information. Thank you and keep it up

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, will do!

Perfect timing. Fire forming two different calibers now. I was planning on doing the drop bolt technique from Eric’s video that I had seen before but the explanation of case head separation was great.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you. I'm glad it was helpful.

Wow, I’m just now going through this same thing!! It’s with a new barrel and I’ve been in a hurry too. Thank you, thank you, checking my measurements out as soon as done commenting!! Much appreciated!!!

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

My pleasure. Glad it helps.

Another great video!

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Great info - thx for sharing :)

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

My pleasure.

Good information. I'd also add that keeping an eye on case neck thickness is important for case longevity.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you that's a great point.

Great to know Thank you.

I've researched this all day, and here's your video explaining whats going on. I installed a Bartlein 6mm CM barrel and have .006 difference between new Lapua brass and once-fired brass. The excess is also leading to primer problems too. Thanks for all the work you do putting these videos out there for us. Between you and Erik, I am now consistently .3in at 100 yards with my RPR in 6.5CM.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

I'm so glad this helped you. Thank you.

Good explanation and something i just learned first hand with my Dasher. 1st firing was fire forming BR brass, then I bumped it .001. After the 2nd firing the bump setting was a full .007 further forward than the previous setting. If had not checked i would be over sizing my brass.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly. I'm glad you found it before you hurt your brass.

Thanks much John! I think I’ll resize the body and neck only, no shoulder bump, until the 3rd firing. I also think it’s helpful to apply scotch tape (0.002 thick, which is easily confirmed using a guage before vs after applying the tape) to see if you’re within 2 or so of max base to datum line for your chamber. It’ll prevent bolt drop using a stripped bolt and will cause difficulty chambering. If no effect then apply 2 layers, etc.

I've known for years not to shoot brass that looked like that after a few loadings, but never knew why, thanks for the explanation( i would never have guessed it was how i was sizing). When i saw that line on my brass, i would bend a paper clip and feel inside the case, if i felt a ridge , i trashed the case. The image from your bore scope really drives the danger of reloading that case home, i like the way you do stuff John, thanks

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

I'm glad the video helped and thank you for the kind words.

Man, Thank you for this. I measure all the times and on my second reloading I could not figure out how a 2 thousands shoulder bump set on my FL sizing die could have grown to 5! Now what you explained makes perfect sense. Thank you!

@FClassJohn

2 жыл бұрын

Glad it helped.

John, Thank you. First I do not know how I missed your videos on this subject about a year ago. I ran across it after your vise video on the side bar to day. Last month in comparing and testing Lapua SRP, & LRP cases. "3 sets of 5, 1 group being LRP." On the 9th firing, I got the ring of death on the LRP cases. I tested these cases in the REAL high velocity areas that a normal person would not go to. All was well with these cases at that point. After the 6th firing I backed the velocities down to real world numbers and all Looked good with the cases. I knew at some point that I was going to have the cases start to fail, but the question was WHEN. On the 9th firing as I stated the ring of death accrued on the LRP. I thought that is was an issue due to the HIGHER velocities and pressures that I induced on the cases alone. Now I see that my resizing die and my neglect to check it was the real problem. The 2 sets of SPR still look great but I took them out of circulation as well. I am now testing 3 new groups of SRP at normal velocities and I'm checking the SIZING DIE AFTER THE 2ND FIRING. THANK YOU SIR FOR PUTTING EVRY THING IN PRESPECTIVE. I still had that set of cases "LRP" haunting me in the back of my head wondering why the SRP did not fail also. Now I know. The bad thing is,,, I seen Eric's video on this matter. Time to watch it again. Thank you Sir,, Your older video are still helping people to day. Great Job.

@FClassJohn

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the kind words and I'm glad the video was able to help!

I done the same observations about 2 or 3 times to get really fire-formed a brass, I know the perfect setting of my shoulder bump only after, and I take the measure on each resized cases. I do this since a while now, works great.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly! What you're doing is perfect and a great example to follow.

I recommend using the Redding competition shell holder sets to set your shoulder bump. They allow you to vary your shoulder bump in 0.002” increments whilst permanently having your seating die lock ring set to cam-over. Also, annealing your case necks after every firing results in more consistent neck sizing and less shoulder bump variance from case to case.

And again I have learned something new. I thought the brass that became fireformed after first time shot in my chamber. Again, thank You. 🇸🇪

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

My pleasure. The thing to remember is that you have to measure to know. Sometimes it’s formed after one firing, sometimes it’s not.

@mariusmusat1038

3 жыл бұрын

@@FClassJohn I am only a hunter, and the normal plinker. Allthough I don’t do matches I enjoy reloading, and I like learning more and more about this fine hobby. Thank you again. A pleasure watching both your videos and Eric Cortinas. Btw, you mentioned his way in adjusting the die. Also that was an eyeopener. So simple and so precise. Thank you again. Regards from the Swede living in the Norwegian mountains.

The only time I have experienced this was with some old Brit 303 cases. I used IMR4895 and some .308 Speer boat tails, and a slightly reduced charge.

Hi John Have one of those. Was burning holes in primers/Ejector marks on brass/Crated primer strikes. At that time I was not measuring case head space just going by die manufacture adjustment. This was on a AR 10 .308. Looked on the web and was suggested to buy a JP high pressure bolt. It has a smaller firing pin. So I bit $200.00 put it in and no more burnt holes in primers but I got a head space separation. Bought the tools to measure case head space. Had .014 - .015. Reset the die and bumped .004-.005. AR will get stuck cases if you try to get the head space to tight. Just the nature of the beast. I stilled showed signs of over pressure so changed back to my regular powder. Also John I setup the die to neck the brass with the bullet in. It really worked well. Ran 25 and mic the necks to 10th.They were exact concentric. I could not achieve that with neck turning. I modified the Redding S die for bushings. If you want some pics of what I did shoot me a email. I have not tested them yet. New scope will be here tomorrow. Will get out next weekend chucknorbid@gmail.com Harold

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Sounds like you're learning along with us and have some fun testing to do. Hope your new process works out for you.

I use a piece of piano wire, which I have the end bent at eighty or ninety degrees and then sharpened to a point. I drag/scrape the inside of the case, and any start of incipient separation is easily detected. Great video as usual! Thank you.

@FClassJohn

Жыл бұрын

Thank you and that sounds like a good method as well.

The break is caused by the sizing dies! I found that stretching happens every time you size it. I used Hornady sizer, and it was taking the brass down too small. About .008 and you only need .001 to .002, I had to re-adjust to match the chamber, but be careful of the neck being too big.

A most important measurement is that taken on new, unfired brass or loaded rounds. Brass is different by batch and brand; it is the brass that will determine headspace, not the gun. Very common is that new brass is undersized, I suppose for some ridiculous safety issue. New brass can be BELOW SAAMI minimum by an easy .004" or more. You need to use a case gauge (I use Wilson), and measure the case head in relation to SAAMI maximums and minimums. I use a dial indicator adapter from MIke Bellm (Mike Bellm's T/C website). Measuring a fired case will tell you the stretch minus the springback. Where the shoulder to case head is in the fired case is pretty close to what you want for headspace. If springback is .001", then headspace is about .001", not a bad reading; (gun stretch can also be a complicating factor). You want to bring your sized case to this measurement with each reload. If you blindly full length resize and bring the brass back to its undersized dimension, you will be stretching the case and shrinking it down too far, time after time, and the brass will fail quickly, with case head separation. In auto loaders, you can control shoulder bumping in a full length sizing die (I only use full length dies with bushings!), by inserting a feeler gauge between the die and shellholder. For bolt and break action guns, where full length sizing is not necessary, you can use bushing bump dies (Forster), and use the feeler gauge the same way. Hope this helps.

Wow! I had never considered how the FP drives the case forward before ignition.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah it seems counterintuitive but after you think about it, it totally makes sense.

I was using a bullet remover on a Lake City 7.62 round. This was a round that had not be fired before I fired it in my rifle and then I had resized and loaded. I was taking it apart because of an error in powder load. The case separated right about where John is showing the line on the case. It separated into the bullet, the base and the neck portion of the brass. I didn't notice a line on the brass, but of course I really wasn't paying attention. I wasn't really banging the bullet remover very hard.

I had a run of 50 BMG cases that where commercially sized and primed that went way overpressure with a normal load. Massively undersized brass.

Hello, since every rifle, die or load is different I dont rely the 0.002' classical shoulder bump method. My solution is based on a comparative measurement. First I take a piece of brass that is exactly sized to fit my chamber (bolt not falling but almost), then I store it to use it as my "reference gage". Since the hardness of the brass may vary, I always check the settiing of my die every time I reload, with my calipers bump gage zeroed on this reference case. With this technique I'm sure to always get the same shoulder bump for my rifle.

The ejector pin actually pushes the cartridge case forward until the shoulder of the case contacts the chamber shoulder leaving clearance between the bolt face and the bottom of the cartridge. Sometimes because of this clearance you may have misfires because the firing pin doesn't penetrate the primer far enough. The worst thing thing that can happen is a case head separation caused by the bolt face not being in contact with the cartridge when the powder charge explodes.

I just found your channel and want to say thank you for all of the information you are sharing. I've learned more in the last day of binging your videos than I did the past year of reloading.

@FClassJohn

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the kind words. I’m glad you’re finding it helpful.

I was aware from forming cases for cast bullet rounds, that lower powered loads wouldn't completely fireform a case initially, but, in thinking about it, I have had cases grow on second firing on higher pressure rounds, and had to readjust a die. Just something else to pay attention to. Never had a separation yet, came close a few times way back, when I didn't know better, than to not screw a die all the way down.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Yep exactly.

I had a separation with .223 Remington recently. I was actually pleased with it because I got to see for myself what it looked like (I pulled the bolt back and the thing that came out looked like a 9mm Luger case, while the subsequent shot refused to chamber) and how to deal with it (at the suggestion of another shooter, I put a wire brush up the chamber from the breech end and managed to hook the broken front of the case). Ironically, the calibre I shoot in which I expected it to happen and which is notorious for it, .303 British, has never given me an issue. The reason for that might be the .303 Broken Shell Extractor I always take to the range with me. Umbrella principle, right?

@ericpope7835

Жыл бұрын

I load my service rifle hot for 1000y (experience case separations fairly often) and often don't notice the case separation because the big end gets ejected. Subsequently I slam a new cartridge in the chamber which makes a perfect ruptured case extractor. The bullet runs into the neck of the stuck partial case with enough pressure to remove the case. Probably a little too "cave man" for you F guys, but maybe sometimes you don't have a brush? Just push another round partially into the chamber then pull it out.

Don't forget to check the length of the brass. I didn't check for many years since I only load for hunting. When I finally did wake up all of my brass was way over length. Caused pressures to go up. Luckily I didn't damage anything.

It is harder to determine headspace in a bolt gun. I use a no go gage, and if the bolt doesn't close on it, good. I measure how proud of the SAAMI maximum on a Wilson case gage, the no go gage is (dial indicator with adapter). Knowing this reference figure, I can tell how far above SAAMI maximum the bolt will not close, (should be .005"). Using this figure on the dial indicator, I bump the shoulder on a brass case to .001" less, or about .004" above SAAMI maximum. If the bolt does close, I know that the headspace is .004" with a case that is exactly at the SAAMI maximum. If it does close on a case that is .004" above SAAMI maximum and I want a headspace of .002", then I must bump the shoulder on every case new or fired, to where it is .002" ABOVE SAAMI maximum. Let's say a fired case is .005" above SAAMI maximum, then I must bump the shoulder .003" to achieve proper headspace on the next firing. Hope this makes sense. Adapter for dial indicator available on Mike Bellm's T/C website.

love the videos, do one on primer pockets, do you do light loads on the first firing?

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

If I know the caliber I just load normal. If it’s a new caliber I definitely go lighter.

I should have watched this months ago before I started reloading..I had a casehead separation today 2 shoots into velocity test on my 25/06..day wrecker..had no tools with me..turns out a wood chopstick work like a charm to remove the top half from my chamber lol

If you want a simple way to setup and adjust your sizing die, get the Redding Competition Shell holder kit. I set my die up with the largest shell holder and leave it alone. If I need more of a bump for the brass lot I'm working with, I simply switch to the next smallest shell holder in .002" increments.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

That works too except when you’re using progressive presses or on a standard Forster Coax and a few other presses.

@njgrplr2007

3 жыл бұрын

@@FClassJohn Understood. I'm still using the same Hornady press I got decades ago.

Because I’m new to reloading. Always measure everything after every firing. To learn what’s happening with my brass.

That bowl of brass at the top of the screen made me hungry for pistachios...😋 Great explaination FCJ, 👍 thanks

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it and now I'm hungry.....

Nice, clear video John. Love the blue gloves too...are Neon Green gloves on your holiday list (hint: they are NOT on your Amazon site...)? But seriously, all the leg work you do and share is much appreciated by those of us who you spare from experimentation (and frustration).

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you. I’m just happy that any of this information can help someone.

Excellent! I wonder is shoulder slope has any effect on potential case head separation? I have a 300 H & H which has a shoulder of 8.5 degrees and is head-spaced off the belt and have never had a problem using the paper clip method, other cartridges with shoulder of 25 degrees with same velocity loads I've occasionally found incipient case head separation using the paper clip method and retired that brass lot. Excellent explanation in this video! I started using a bore scope to also check for incipient head case separation after seeing your other video. Thanks!

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Great observation and I can't help but agree it may have some effect as well and thank you for the kind words.

Good advice there! Which tool are you using to measure yr bump?

It never occurred to me NOT to measure my brass after each firing. The issue talked about here is more apparent when you use a shoulder comparator that matches the shoulder angle versus one that just uses the datum line like a Hornady.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I know it seems like common sense to always measure but I think at any given time it's easy to get complacent especially when you're in a hurry getting ready for a match or an outing with friends. Reloading is a game of vigilance for sure.

Got any advice on resizing and brass life for us gas gun reloaders? Also, I’m new to reloading but the Redding Competition Holders have really helped me on not “over sizing” my brass.

@FClassJohn

2 жыл бұрын

I'm sorry but I don't have any real experience reloading for gas guns.

I'm wondering why you could get over-pressure with mild load by bumping the shoulder to much? Is it by lowering internal volume? Cant figure why exactly?

Erik does know a ton of stuff, but John I'd argue you do as well. If we keep givin Erik his compliments, he's gonna need a much wider door for his barn.

@FClassJohn

2 жыл бұрын

😂🤣

My question is I have these marks on 6 different calibers of brass , but in different locations depending which caliber I inspect , from the neck down to the area above the base , is this correct or wrong , Im useing a fine hooked wire to drag inside , but it doesnt always "catch" on the ring , getting about 8 to 25 shots with each case , 8 being the 7.92x57 and the high being the 30 carbine brass with the balance in between , any insite would be helpful , your channel is the first to show this fine line that Im awear of , thanks.

@FClassJohn

Жыл бұрын

I've seen it in different places although it's usually down towards the base but it all has to do with where the brass is stretching so it's possible up higher.

Hi John; I'm not such an expert shooter, but research is my profession, so I've been following up on some of the videos about sizing and annealing. One thing that I ran across was an interesting bit about the work hardening being caused in firing the round...it looks to me like the brass is being work hardened at this separation line that you are seeing, and that it might be useful to try annealing further down the cartridge case, so that annealing will recover the cartridge's ability to stretch at that point. It could be, even, that annealing the cartridge further would allow it to seal better into the chamber? I guess there could be a trade-off in extraction force required? Anyway, just throwing around ideas, maybe something will stick to the wall ;-) Thanks to you guys for sharing your great experience, I hope that I'm not stepping on toes by coming up with my out-there ideas... Keep well, sir !

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

I appreciate the thoughts. I don't know anyone who anneals that far down and I'm not a metallurgist so I'll simply leave it with, nobody does it for a good reason, I just forget what the reason is (brass thickness variance or maybe you don't want the walls 'softened').

@224valk4

Жыл бұрын

@@FClassJohn I tried it, primers seem to seat fine BUT YOU WILL BLOW PRIMERS !! No annealing near base it near primer pockets!!!!!!

I recently had a pressure issue on new brass. The new brass was .008" smaller than my chamber. I was 4gr under max still having pressure issues.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Yep that can occur. I’ve seen undersized brass and low power charges cause issues just as much as over charged loads.

Hello John, great lesson. Thank you. I have a question: how reloads endures your brass? Thank you in advance for your answer and best regards from Poland

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking but if you're asking how many reloads you can get out of brass it all depends on many factors. I know some guys who get 5 reloads and others who get 30. The more you reload the more you get a feel for how your brass is holding up and you'll know when to get rid of it.

@AlbinGwiazda

3 жыл бұрын

@@FClassJohn Yes, that's what I asked. Thank you for your answer.

Out of interest, have you had time to think about seating with reference to the case datum yet? I don't have a datum to ogive gauge yet but, I've been trialing bullet seating using a washer under the case head. My base to ogive readings are all over the place so, I gather it's working as expected. I'd be very interested to see if you can get some positive results on target. Regards........Rotas.

If the firing pin pushes the case forward until the shoulder hits the chamber and the body friction holds the case static, how does the shoulder get blown forward? Also, I’ve heard to fireform the first time with the bullet in the lands to keep the base against the bolt face for a proper forming. Do you support this?

My bolt closes easily on once fired brass. So can i resize my brass and just not touch the shoulder the 1st time? Or even the second time if my bolt closes?

Question for you. We only started to see this same line appear this year after a couple years owning the rifle. We also bought a box of factory loaded Remington in 30-06 and the same line appeared on the new brass in the exact same place as 2-3 fired brass. Rifle is a Savage 116 bolt action in stainless. Any insight appreciated. Thx.

John, please can I ask you a question? So the bolt have to close freely? Thanks

I watch both you and Eric. Great videos from you both. I'm struggling with setting up the shoulder bump. 100 pieces of once fired brass and quite a bit different measurements. Bolt will close on all of them easily. Do I measure all the brass and bump shoulder with average measurement. Or measure and bump each piece of brass separately?

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

If all the brass runs through without a problem you could neck size it and fire it then try again. It may not be fully fire formed.

@jayman7935

3 жыл бұрын

@@FClassJohn I was thinking about doing that. My thoughts were my brass just hasn't formed enough yet to need shoulder bump. But didn't trust my judgement because it seems standard is .002 bump from you top competitors. Thanks again for your help

Ejector spring pushes the brass up to the shoulder before the firing pin strikes. Unless you are removing your ejector spring?

@paulsouth4794

9 ай бұрын

Unless you have a mauser action .

I have a Hornady Full Length sizing die. I have no idea how to adjust it for a “shoulder bump”, nor did I know it was possible. With the dangers and info I’ve seen in your video, would a neck size only die be the way to go? If so, how long can I prolong my brass life using it? I’m using this for .338 Lapua and 6.5 Creed

Hmm. I don't know who to believe about the cause of head separation. When I was reloading in the 1970's, I used Hornady reloading book. The Hornady book, now long lost, said the head separation is from FL sizing. During the full length sizing process, the expanded case near the head is squeezed to regular dimension, causing slight head thinning and increase in case length, each time the case is sized after firing, according to the Hornady book. For this reason, most of my reloads were neck sized, except for straight wall cases. Your explanation doesn't make sense to me. Bumping the shoulder is going to cause case compression on the body of the case, not stretching. Tell me where I'm wrong. What is your source? When you're bumping the shoulder are you also sizing the body? I haven't reloaded in decades and don't have the latest Hornady roading book to see if the latest Hornady book now reveals the cause of head separation.

So what's your thoughts when fireforming to do a hard jam into the lands the first firing to eliminate more firings? That's why I've always done in my 308 and 6BR with virgin brass.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

I still believe in hard jamming but all I’m saying is you can’t always trust you’re getting a full fireform the first firing.

Great advise John. Fortunately all my 2nd & third fired cases are measuring in the same. My cases blow fwd to 2.624 then, I size back to 2.622-21. I have another issue you might know about though. At the moment I'm sizing with Lee FLS dies,...........yeah, I know I know but, they're all I've had for years &, they perform adequately accept for sizing down near the web. At only 0.002 shoulder bump, the cases are sticking near the web of the chamber forcing me to resize some of the cases. They usually size properly if I simply run those cases in again but, it's pissing me off. At the moment I've resigned myself to the fact that I'll have to purchase another brand which is slightly narrower than the Lee dies, question is, which brand is generally narrower at the web? I'm hoping the Wilson dies will fit the bill. Would you mind commenting on this subject if you're familiar with this issue. Regards.......Rotas.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Depending on the caliber and brass used, the brass will grow at the base faster than others and you need to use a Small Base Die to tighten them up. This can also be alleviated by custom reamers that are .001" or .002" bigger at the .0200 line on the brass.

@rotasaustralis

3 жыл бұрын

@@FClassJohn Yes, I did kinda look into the small base dies but, I'm not sure that's the issue as most of the brass is only once fired. I've had this issue with this chamber right from the start. It seems as though it's about 0.001-2 undersize at the base. If I bump the shoulder 3-4 thou, it's usually fine. I'm thinking that the Lee die may be very slightly too generous at the case head end. Anyhow, I'm about to order a Wilson bushing FLS die & see how that goes. Failing that, I may have to get the base of the chamber polished out 2 or 3 thou.

Second time I listen this video... real good info! Thanks. One thing popped in my head, me and my buddy both shoot 308 win with Lapua brass. I noticed a pressure ring started to rise on his brass, and as I FL resized his brass the pressure ring gets bumped back 1 to 2 thousands... meaning that I work harden the brass down there... which I don't like. Do you see potential issue with his brass becoming brittle and fail at that exact area? As a side note, my brass did rise a pressure ring over time, but as I FL resize it didn't get bumped at all... looks like my chamber has the same dimension as my die at the web area... which sound logic to me.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

I honestly don't know it your particular case but anytime you stress or stretch your brass you're causing a potential point of failure so I would take care best you can to prevent or mitigate it.

@martingagnon4547

3 жыл бұрын

@@FClassJohn I think the same as well... I thought maybe you heard about that particular issue. Thanks anyway!

I need some help on converting 308 brass or 7.62x51 into 300 savage model 99. I'm bulging primers. Factory 300 Savage are hard to find and very expensive. Based on this video I'm forming my brass wrong or using brass that is not designed for this. Any information any information would be appreciated. Special note, the de-primed and empty 7.62x51 PPU17, weight is very consistent compared to all the others.

Wow, very interesting, love your videos along with Eriks you two do great work! Not a lot of information on this part of sizing brass. Who would’ve thought it, makes perfect sense. I eventually would like to get a 7sherman max or 7saum. How do you like yours?

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

I love the Sherman. Great magnum caliber and easy to work with so far.

@alexhitge5730

3 жыл бұрын

Hi John. You and Eric talk about the 7mm SAUM and 7 Shehane. What is the difference and which one would you recommend for ELR?

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

@@alexhitge5730 7Saum in a magum (7 Short Action Ultra Mag) and Shehane is just a modified variant of the .284 Win. Totally different in sooooo many ways other than they use the same bullet.

@IHFarmer2007

3 жыл бұрын

@@FClassJohn Just a hunch here and it may help Alex, but I’m guessing you all choose the Shehane because of efficiency, round count is probably higher before you burn a barrel out and less recoil?

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

@@IHFarmer2007 easier to tune, more information, tools and components for either .284 or .284shehane than most magnums plus less recoil and of course no need for magnums bolts for your action.

It seems to me that this is actually a good argument for belted Magnum cases that so many people are calling old school, pointless tecnology. The headspace is only set once, by the gunsmith. After that there should be no room for the firing pin to drive the case forward, ever! I have over a dozen rifles and none of them are magnums, just saying. I once used some 6mm Remington brass in my 257 AI. It caused a case head separation. Now I cringe every time I read of someone recommending that practice on the internet. After a closer examination I found that they are NOT the same case, the 6mm is slightly shorter. That's why it happened. Split the cases (twice) right in two.

My problem with a Savage 7mm-08 was that after firing and resizing as normal the new sized brass had tight bolt closure and when fired the case head separated. I was mystified and remeasured multiple times without finding any significant difference...the OAL measured using a hornady comparator was spot on....the shoulder measurement was .002-.003. Is this from the die or faulty brass or a bad chamber? The first firings shoot great, but the second sizing is the problem

@FClassJohn

Жыл бұрын

I've never seen cases separate on the second firing like you've said. I would check with your gunsmith and have him take a look at the chamber to make sure it's a good match to your dies.

@George1mac

Жыл бұрын

@@FClassJohn Well, not so many local gunsmiths in our area...after discussing with one of my hunting friends who has dealt with having new barrels made, I sent the gun to Douglas and just received a new barrel. I am getting ready to prepare some loads for it....thanks for your reply!!! I am betting the original barrel chamber is the culprit

After it is fire formed why not just neck resize? A newbie.

Does this apply to the belted case? The headspace is supposed to be handled by the belt.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

To be fair, I honestly don’t know. I’ve never dealt with belted cartridges. Sorry.

Bumping the shoulder back 1 to 2 thou on a piece of once fired brass that is not fully formed is still excessive. No?

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Yes and no. But that's why I say measure, measure, measure. There's certainly times after first firing that aside from neck sizing you may not need to do anything else but also times when bumping is appropriate.

I started reloading for the 280 AI. Does anyone know if Ackley cartridges have more issues with case separation?

I'm probably only a few rounds into reloading ADG and Gunwerks brass but my question is "WHAT IF" I get case head separation in 6.5 PRC. I can't "google" a broken case extractor for 6.5 PRC. Any inspiration?

@FClassJohn

2 жыл бұрын

Like I said on the other response, I’ve never used a broken case extractor. I’ve always just used an oversized brush or bore mop to pop it out.

Hey thanks for this video. I'm getting a ring after my first firing does that mean my headspace is too big?

@FClassJohn

Жыл бұрын

Do you actually feel a ring inside or is it just on the outside. Out of curiosity are you using am ammo box that has round holes?

@FC2ESWS

Жыл бұрын

@@FClassJohn While the ammo does use a round holder, and that does show a faint ring, after I fire there's a distinct ring. A new round (300 WSM) measures 1.734" (at the .420 datum) and a fired case measures 1.739". Do you think that is too much stretch? SAAMI dimensions are 1.726"-1.736"

@FClassJohn

Жыл бұрын

@@FC2ESWS without being there it’s always hard to tell but it sounds like that could be an issue for sure. I would take it back to your gunsmith and ask him to take a look. It may need to be set back just a little to reduce the headspace if he thinks that’s what’s causing it.

Great info, What 7saum brass are you running?

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

ADG

@ramsaycountry1177

3 жыл бұрын

@@FClassJohn I run it in my 22crdm and its not turned out good. The peterson 22 crmd brass i now have is alot better than the adg. my buddy just got some for his 7 saum but hasnt shot it yet.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

@@ramsaycountry1177 There aren't a lot of 7saum choices. I think ADG makes the best right now but again only a few make it.

@ramsaycountry1177

3 жыл бұрын

@@FClassJohn Yes I know thats why i ask, i was looking at a 7saum or 7wsm build this winter but im going with a 284 shehane. I think theirs better brass available for it. lapua and peterson.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

@@ramsaycountry1177 Absolutely. .284 or .284 shehane are great choices and there's tons of great components and tools for it. Great choice!

Pay attention to this information, it will happen to you guys eventually. This is also why you shouldn't work up your finale load until after your 2nd or 3rd firing. Brass takes awhile to form to your chamber due to spring back.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Very well said and thank you for the kind words.

So here is my question. If the headspace can continue to grow for up to 3 potential firings, is it even necessary to bump the shoulder back at all in the first 2 sizing's, so long as the case chambers correctly without any tightness?

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Nope. Not needed at all so long as it chambers. In fact you can do more damage by actually TRYING to push your shoulders back if they don't need it. BUT I still always FLSize to bring the body back into shape.

@xxshiftlockxx

3 жыл бұрын

@@FClassJohn That's exactly what I was thinking, and makes total sense. On virgin brass in those first 2-3 firings with the headspace potentially growing, could this have potential effects on say finding your powder charge when working up a new load?

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

@@xxshiftlockxx it could, but depends on the caliber. In calibers with proper brass like 6.5c or .308 for instance it's much less likely to happened. In calibers that need a lot of fire forming or really custom chambers it's much more likely to happen.

@xxshiftlockxx

3 жыл бұрын

@@FClassJohn That's very good to know. I really appreciate the feedback and responses!

Measure twice, bump once.

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

Wonderfully said!!

What does this mean if it happens with new factory loaded brass?

@FClassJohn

3 жыл бұрын

I honestly don't know. Probably bad brass or incorrectly sized brass from the manufacturer.

@incognitonunyabuisness5192

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah that was my best guess...it’s the first one I’ve had happen in 200 rounds. I just don’t know how dangerous it could be if i shot more rounds through it?

Moat.... I like the word moat😬

You forgot to spend time addressing folks who use multiple guns (i.e..multiple chambers) of the same caliber. ALso, when using my hornady cartridge guage, I routinely need to use small base dies (223) in order to ensure they meet spec (even though I could use normal dies and they would most likely always chamber in my firearms.). I'm OCD enough to always want them to be "in spec". I know this decreases my case life.

Neck size only

@richrudley2650

2 жыл бұрын

You can't get the best accuracy by only neck sizing. The best shooters in the world bump .002.

Why you wearing gloves?

@forwhomthebelltolls392

Жыл бұрын

So your finger oils don't tarnish the brass, and so you don't get case sizing wax all over your fingers. You must be a newbie.

This is BS, and many of you need to get Lee case sizing, or someone else. If you know a machine shop, have them ream it abou .007 more for that full size set up.

Any reloading manual since the 50's explains this in perfect detail, if you can't read a fucking book then you shouldn't be reloading.

@richrudley2650

2 жыл бұрын

Everyone one makes a mistake from time to time. If you are not sure about something. Ask someone with a lot of experience for the correct answer. But the one person to avoid is the person that thinks he knows all the answers. Definitely avoid the person who has an overinflated ego. They can be dangerous.

@whatafukndick5660

2 жыл бұрын

@@richrudley2650 Exactly, that's why we read books instead of listening to idiot's on social media.

You are bumping your shoulders back too far.