You need to paint the parts, the primer will get stuck to the epoxy. Paint and polish then the gelcoat.You're doing a great job and failure is just a learning experience.

@ag_trucks

Ай бұрын

I was thinking that I may need to do that! I'll have to coat all my panels next attempt👍 thank you!

@remisuffren3346

Ай бұрын

@@ag_trucks That will make your molds great! I'm glad you are willing to ask people for help and try different way to do it. You are very talented and I'm sure you'll figure it out!

@nathanchalecki4842

Ай бұрын

You dont have to paint. Just wax, wax and more wax. The primer will end up looking highly polished

@rektautomotive3483

Ай бұрын

Yeah your lacking about 6million coats of release wax, thats always been the best option for me vs the chemical release products

@luliluli1471

Ай бұрын

Painting helps although it can be avoided if the primer is the correct on(low load) and well polished and sealed. In my humble opinion of someone who has worked with mould making for over 20 years you are missing a couple of steps. Bee wax and PVA applications. After applying Freekote release agent run over with no less than 6 coats of bee wax. First application with strokes in the longitudinal direction, then across, and so on... Spread the wax as thin and as generously as you can and then buff it off with a clean cotton rug. Repeat the process 6 times and let it set for a couple of hours to allow any solvent on the surface to evaporate. If you have extra cash to expend you can employ a more sophisticated product like carnaúba wax for mould release. This is what the aerospace industry employs... The wax will flatten all the irregularities that the sealant didn't and allow for better results. If the above still doesn't work then it might be that your polishing is not thin enough. In this case, apply PVA release (with a spray gun - read the prep and working instructions) before starting with the tooling gel-coat. By the way, try to use the correct gel-coat for the moulds. They are more expensive but last longer. I would also like to suggest another two directors for when making your moulds. First: you can make epoxy parts from polyester moulds. Polyester will not only be cheaper, but way easier to work with. Second: NEVER use cloth when laying moulds up. You need the fibre to be in short segments to allow for accommodation and to avoid bridging in the internal corners. Also, try to lay the first play with the finest matt you can get and leave it to set accordingly. This will help in avoiding through -printing of the fiber strands on the internal face of the mould. I hope this helps and I look forward to your final composites results.😊

Tofu Auto Works channel is your answer to learn how to make a mold ,hope that helps. keep it up !!

@i.am.adrian

Ай бұрын

I was going to recommend the same thing! He has definitely gone through some of the same problems on his youtube channel, but he seems to have it all dialed in and makes great molds now. His Stagea build is coming along really well.

@Rodman8500

Ай бұрын

@@i.am.adrian ,That's why i suggested the channel so he can relates to his experience with this mold makin kind of job. and the Stagea going to look very nice with the wide body once he finished it. he is doing some work now on his cyber miata .

@joekinghondas3553

Ай бұрын

This man stole the words out my brain !!! ❤❤❤❤ both good channels

@terribleturtle3489

Ай бұрын

Great suggestion!

@wesleyturner6424

Ай бұрын

My mate here in NZ has a manual swapped Stagea and was thinking of working with TAW to sort the body kit and also turbocharging the vq

Bro, I believe I would paint and polish parts before making mold. Love it. Keep going

Use PVA as a release agent x 3 coats, fist one light mist and build up, this way you dont need to paint the part. But Don't go to Heavey 3-4 coats max. use plasticine around the handle as that is a grab point, use a glue gun to hold the sign board on. Another thing is called Exotherm if you have not let your plug cure properly, it will key to the plug. dont use a cut brush for laying gelcoat, only for layup. and keep the light (UV) as it will pre-cure to early. do a pre wet out on the mold, will help the resin adsorb up into the cloth under it. Sorry, just trying to help.

@ryanryan-dl2ix

Ай бұрын

Definitely a light mist first or it will start to bead up and run. 👍

Wow! Incredible patience and optimism bud! So disappointing to see all the work you guys did not turn out the first time. Very cool that you were able to salvage the second attempt! Pretty impressive dude! Looking forward to the next videos!!!

Failure is progress and learning. Man what a job, it’ll come I can’t think of anyone else capable of getting this right. Great work Alec

Good for you in recognizing the mistakes and using them as a learning experience. Meanwhile putting that into a video. Refreshing to see this instead of videos that make it seem like everything is effortless to them. Keep up the great work!!!!!

You'll get it. Looking forward to the next one

A good help is watching tofu garage's vids, hes worked alot with fibreglass and plugs.. if that helps

I’m not an expert but someone above mentioned it eating into the primer, as an automotive painted this does make sense to me. I would reach out to Loctite and ask if that is why it did that. Perhaps primer is too porous and the release is bonding to it. Really hated to see all of that hard work for that result. You will get it figured out, keep up the great work.

I always wax and use PVA on my plugs, then chemical release on the mold for your actual carbon parts. I never had any luck with chemical release on the plug. And why no chop strand mat for the first few layers? It will go much faster with less risk of air bubbles underneath. Its the normal process for mold making. Yeah, as everyone else has said, no primer finish, even a 2k primer is no good. Primer does what primer does, leave a good surface for paint to grab on to. Using a few coats of some 2k clear then polishing it up is my go to.

@ryanryan-dl2ix

Ай бұрын

And with PVA over the plug you are able to drive a wedge in between and pour some water in to dissolve the PVA. And the plug will pop right out of the mold. Nice and easy, with less risk of damaging anything.

@APEXCarbonFiber123

Ай бұрын

Good stuff here! When you refer to the carbon fiber chemical release, are you using the PVA, or another type of release agent?

I worked with professional mold makers and making repairs to the mold after the plug was pulled was common. And as stated above, paint the parts, color sand and buff.

Love that you post "failure" it's the best way we as humans learn and it's encouraging for others who might be too self conscious to have a go themselves. Good work! Love your channel

Keep going! Try to paint the parts before next attempt

It is fascinating what you are doing.....I was also going to mention that you needed to paint the panels as primer is porous...... keep up the good work......nice to see you and your dad working together

This is a great project. I was searching for more videos earlier in the week!

I wouldn’t worry about Carbon Fiber. That little truck is already a wicked little machine and it’s already going to be plenty light. Keep up the great work you’re doing. It’s satisfying watching someone build something they can see in their head and I’ve learned a few new tricks watching your videos. Can’t wait to see the finished product.

Man I hope you see this through to completion, there is no doubt in my mind that there will be a market for a full carbon fiber chevy truck body. I bet by the time you're able to sell your second body, you'll have recouped your capital outlay

Tofu Auto Works and Street Bandito are good channels that show in detail how to get good results. Keep up the good work!

Primer is designed to grab unto whatever it touches, especially if it is fresh primer. So the black coat will hook into it as soon as it is applied. You need to paint and or clear the parts or sand them to bare metal before you apply the resin and cloth. Sorry this happened, but it's a learning process. Keep trucking, bro. You'll get it right next time

@kieranb7047

Ай бұрын

I should have read the comments better as I posted exactly this 😂

Everything is going to be worth it!

If you let it cure you need to always key (sand) between layups. You should also attempt wet lay up and put chopped fiberglass mixed with resin in the corners. Precut your fiberglass and have them ready when laying up to speed up your build layer

I have a small composite shop and I’m making molds for a 2016 Shelby GT 350 R and I’ve run into some of the same problems. I do also use Composite Envisions keep at it and you will get it done

Keep going Alec!! Your doing amazing work! ❤👏👏

You're doing an amazing job here. Keep working at it and you will master it! Subscriber for life!

Congrats from Brazil, man!! Nice work on your truck

I watched the last video yesterday and I was worried you had problems making the pieces. If that's one of your first parts and it's already that big, then you got plenty of confidence in your abilities. I wish I had it.

@ag_trucks

Ай бұрын

The delay was actually just having problems getting the materials to my shop! I was dealing with a company that took forever! I switched over to composite envisions and had everything in a little over a week! Should have done that in the first place!

Awesome video thank you for sharing

I forget who said it, but there's an epic quite about failing (or losing) that goes, "I never lose, I either win or I learn." Money invested on education, just money invested on education.

Tofu Auto Works (as suggested below) is a great suggestion. There's another Canadian channel Throttle Stop Garage who made a carbon fiber body for his Volvo Amazon. He also used Composite Invision products when he did so. Lots of great (and pretty technical) info over there. Even tho you didn't seem to use them, I'd suggest picking up some fiberglass rollers. If you gte the metal ones, you can soak them in acetone when you're done. Much easier than cleaning plastic ones. Should help avoid bubbles in the future (just in case.) Good luck! You got a new subscriber today.

Fail Fast to get the Learning curve you need to succeed out of the way. We all fail, but it’s not considered a failure if you take note, adjust accordingly, and continue in your focus. Fail fast, fail hard, then Fly High kid! You got this! Kaizen

Dude, amazing! Keep going!

Since your primer is still not a gloss smooth surface you need to use a better release. Specifically spray wax. That will allow you to keep things primed and still have a great release.

Following closely as I am about to undertake the same type of carbon project. From my understanding and some previous experience with similar issues, it comes down to the primer. The primer is porous and designed to have something stick to it (the top coat). So because the plug (tailgate) isn't sealed then the Frekote gets absorbed into the primer rather than sitting on top of it. So you need to pain the parts to effectively seal the part, then the Frekote can sit on top of the paint and act as that separation layer. Don't think it matters what your top coat is 2 stage vs single stage, but it needs to be fully painted and sealed.

You can shoot 2 layers of clear with a hardner, that should be enough to pull a mold. Hope it helps.

I use a paste wax for molds. Partall #2 works for me. I've even used minwax paste wax before. You may want to make sure the epoxy sealer is fully cured before doing the gelcoat. Also, if you need to stop putting resin and fiberglass down, just give it a good scuff with sandpaper to give a mechanical bond to the layer before. Also you might want to look into using a chop gun for building the mold out instead of using multiple Layers you can really bulk up a mold quickly and you have a long way to go. It's messy but it's a lot less work. Good luck

I am going to second you need PVA or some other mold release to protect the plug. Cool project and great video. Hope you get the hang on f the mold making for the rest of the body panels.

Ive had the same issues with freekote and mold sealer on primer. Trying a painted and cleared part this time around.

I think you’re right about the temperature changes, not sure if that epoxy heated up, there’s a name for it I can’t remember right now, thermal something?? But the metal heated up and it got cooled off and shrunk, causing the delaminating. Or could have been a spot with dust underneath. At work, we monitor surface temperatures, ambient temperatures, dew point, humidity. All has to be in spec. The product data sheet has everything you need to know for any epoxy. This kind of coating isn’t house painting.

If you plan on a high temp cure for the carbon you would want to make a few changes to your mold. It should be vacuum bagged as any air trapped in the mold construction can expand and damage the mold or product. Current one might be ok for a one time use however. Also, the mold should be cured to at least 50 degrees F above the intended cure temp of the product. As the mold will soften near its highest cure temp. Probably too late for a proper cure now, and without the initial bagging is risky.

@FullSpeed_only

Ай бұрын

Good Points. I’m no Expert, but fought with a Bunch of small Parts/Molds: There should be Resin for high Temperatures, that isn’t Aluminium filled. Any Filling Material makes it harder to wet out the Layup. Al Filling can be pretty good, but not when you want to wet out the Mold Layers, especially without Vacuum. The Product is probably specified for your Use, but there is quite a Difference between what works well for a Pro and what is forgiving small Errors. I always try to heat it to the highest Temperature that looks safe before Removing. The Resin I have Experience with gets softer with Heat and "cures" once again. Normally there are Charts for good Products. Otherwise it will soften once you bake the final Part. Stuffing the Metal Part back into, strapping the Mold to it and slowly heating it might give you the Benefit still and as @robb1165 said there is the Risk of expanding Bubbles. When you heat it without your laminated Part inside you have the Opportunity to repair Spots that pop up and avoid the Issue in your final Piece. A painfully slow Heat-Cure can give you the Chance to watch for Signs and drill tiny Holes into Flaws before the Air/Gases do to much Damage: Metal Part in, slowly to 30°C, slowly cool of, Metal Part out, inspect Repeat with +5/10°C each Time until the different Heat Expansion Rates or the Heat Resistance of one Component looks like the Limit.

Thanks for including the failure. I wanted to do this to an 89 mazda 929, about 20 years.

2k clear the plug, polish the 2k wax the 2k, maybe pva the 2k if you are not sure, then you need less gel coat and veil at first, then woven and strand to bulk.

Im from manitoba...lol, we cant buy much for 850 these days! Awesome build, im sure your mold will pay it self off quick once you start selling panels!

Good learning experience. If you make all the mistakes we dont have to!

If you are making carbon fibre parts in the moulds at elevated temperature you should make the moulds from carbon fibre not glass because the glass mould will expand further under heat. The part will cure but then thevmould will contract further than the part possibly causing issues. Also as someone said previously using vacuum during layup or even vacuum infusion method to make the mould would reduce the chances of voids in the mould blistering during curing a part. Keep at it, good effort so far👍

Best mold release if ever used is Ease Release 200. As far as I know uncured resin will still bond to cured resin so the delamination of fiberglass layers wouldn’t have been caused by taking a break. What I believe happened was you may not have saturated the fiberglass enough. Aluminum filled epoxy is very viscous and doesn’t travel through materials as well as pure epoxy. Also, you handled that failure like a boss. Personally, I would have lost my shit and quit for a day 😂

Put s9me ramwax or good floor polish on the parts before the release agent.

There is a channel called street bandito and they make all carbon fiber vehicles. They spray on mold release and say that its really important that you use the right product because there are a ton of bad ones.

First of all young man its not a failure, its just a part of the learning curve! You haven't done this kind of work so you won't be perfect the first time! You kept at it and you eventually won!

Use PVA as your release agent. If you want to take a break from laminating use peelply to cover the fresh laminate and let cure. Next laminating session remove peel ply and continue your layup. When applying the peelply make sure it is completely wet out by the laminate below. The peel ply is meant for this exact purpose. Peelply is used to avoid sanding for the next layer. Do not use a peelply with a release agent as it will delaminate, use a non coated peelply. My schedule goes for 2-3 days to avoid exotherm, shrinking and warping. The 2 layers of surface coat, 1 layer glass veil or light glass cover with peelply and let cure over night. Next day remove peelply and small molds get finished on this day large molds get 1/2 of the glass then peelply again and the next day finished and bracing put on the backside. Hope this helps. If you want some more in depth advice hit me up.

@ag_trucks

27 күн бұрын

Thank you! I did get some PVA so let's hope it goes better👍👍 appreciate all the info!!

Let go I have been waiting so long

You need to spray on PVA release agent when you make plugs over newly painted surfaces. The resin reacts with the paint. (Ask me how I know 🤣) You can use the Frekote on the mold when you make your part. Make sure your mold is well "cured" as the resin is still de-gassing

i build fiber glass boats and molds. 63 " and 47" catamarans. the release agents are good but when i build a mold i use a sealer first and then i use a high temp mold wax tr 104 i do about 6 coats.. put it on let it haze then buff it off, also dont reuse brushes when applying gelcoat or the first layers of glass. ive seen guys take brushes washes em in acetone and go for a second coat and the part always marries to the mold. new brushes for the two coats of gelcoat and the skin layer of glass. cant stress that enough doesnt matter how well you think its dry. its not... unless its maybe a day later

It would be great to see a colab with you and the carbon fiber OG Mike Patey.

Epic work man

What I suspect is that the body filler and primer didn't cure enough. It has to de-gas properly or else the solvent/styrene can affect the release agent. I too agree with all the suggestions on using wax and PVA, just super reliable. 700-NC is great stuff but does require too much mold prep for one-off parts in my opnion. Anyway... keep up the great work!

Siguiendo tus videos desde Salta 🇦🇷👍🧉

❤❤❤MAKE SURE YOUR AMBIENT ROOM TEMPERATURE IS CORRECT ❤❤❤❤❤

Remember to put a layer of resin before putting down your fiberglass matt down then you won't have binding issues

Awesome! The only point where you went wrong was to go full bore into a large part. Try making a smaller test piece to nail the process and save materials and time. Best of luck. You'll figure it out. What part of N.S. are you from?

you def need to paint first- primer is porous. also check this months Hot Rod mag- they have a fully carbon fiber c10 featured

Everything needs to be clear coated and polished. Then you are ready for release agent. It needs to look like a mirror.

Dude that is gonna be Bad Ass when you get it figured out!

we use wax as a release agent turtle wax to be axact you polish the part then do a good coat of wax and leave the wax on then ad the gel coat and do the layers, instead of prying the part out blast compressed air to release the part

never stop, but in case something comes up and you have to leave, using a solvent to reactivate the resing could've helped, but never stop.

@ag_trucks

Ай бұрын

I'll always make sure to have more time! Never thought of solvent👍 Thanks for watching!

The rough texture of your primer makes your mold stick to it. Also maybe try a water based mold release so you can pour water down as you release your piece which should help pop her right out. You want your piece buffed smooth tho for sure

Timing of your layer applications is important to get proper crosslinking of the epoxy polymers. You will have to sand any layer that has gone too long before applying the next. The parts that you build mold over have to be finished smoother than regular primer, fully cured , color sanded and polished should let go of the mold and it's release agents better.

It’s the heat from the resin, that stuff gets up to some high temps which I believe is heating up your body filler and causing those to bond. Just something I think could be issue maybe put a coat of shellack or poly on tailgate before you apply resin

I believe your parts need to primed, painted and then cleared, cause like others have said your release agent is getting absorbed instead of sitting on top.

Hang in there chum! Your struggles will pay off and then you can produce parts to get your loonies back 🇨🇦

Hes alive, more release agent maby 3 thin layers worth will help release it, also try and reach out to some youtubers

I wouldn't say I'm not a pro at it. You're doing great. If i was to make a suggestion for a cleaner release. I would clean and polish the part you are molding. Polish it like you are entering it in a big car show. The smoother cleaner it is, the better for a clean release. It's alot like painting a car. Most all of the end results come from a good prep. Keep at it.

gotta sort out that audio echo. sick project though. Look at the system that 3dmagicmike uses, looks wayyyy easier to use and his parts come out flawless just doing them in his garage with no fancy oven.

1) you cant make a high temp mold without putting it into a high temp oven to cure it 2) curing in the oven will ensure a better release , think bout it , if the mold isnt 100% fully cured it will still stick to the plug 3) 2k the mold as everyone has mentioned 4) keep going , its just school fees ;)

I recommend a six inch flange you will thank me later. the lock tight sealer are best on a finished mold they work grate but on a old car part plug no, I recommend release agent on the plug plus using PVA sprayed with a paint gun for a even coat, your part will come out and not stick also putting a split flange on each end it will help you pulling parts out, i see a lot of wastage with the glass measure out or make a template to cut out your cloth you will need to do this with your carbon so you may as well start doing it now, this project is going to be awesome

Are you using pva before the wax layer?

Paint parts with an epoxy flooring clear it will seal the part.stops the solvent penetration

Contact somebody in the Square Body Mafia. They have a handle on carbon-fiber replacement body panels.

Man, that was a lot of work. I feel for you.

keep going

Man you got money!

Do you know Tofu Auto Works’ channel? He’s done multiple videos on fiberglass molds and makes them look effortless

I would either paint the plugs, or strip them down to bare metal before making the molds

Tofu Auto Works videos will be of great value to you.

If you use pva release film, you'll be less likely to get primer bonding to the gel coat,

Any resin would of done the same thing, when you took that break, you need to key the fiberglass if you want to apply new layers over the cured layers

Like people have said, @TofuAutoWorks or @StreetBandito have some experience in moulds. Keep going mate, it'll be worth it in the end.

Primer is meant to have a tooth that grabs the paint so I see how it’d grab epoxy. Needs a slick layer of clear coat, possibly buffed and polished

Можно попробовать разделитель ПВА в несколько слоёв и матрицу делать составную из нескольких частей чтобы легче было извлекать модель и готовую деталь. Хотя и в этом случае можно отремонтировать матрицу, даже первый вариант.

The job of primer is to bond to surfaced and then allow other paints and top coats to bond to it. Primer is not the right product to try and pull a mold from as it is designed to stick to surfaces very well. You need to paint the parts with a clear coat, allow that to cure properly and then pollish the clear coat to a high, smooth shine. Then dozens of coats of release wax. I would also suggest you vaccume form the mold and parts. Also when you come to release the mold, try a few blasts of compressed air into the gaps and it can sometimes separate the plug from the mold.

Dig it man!

Are you going to try to keep the lines on the carbon fiber from one panel to the next lined up

How many parts are you going to pull from each mold? If it is one and done or maybe just two or three, that first mold would probably have worked if you fixed it. I have never had good luck with PVA but Carnuaba wax seems to work well, especially over a very smooth surface like clear packing tape. Maybe a cheap vinyl wrap with Carnuaba wax on your plug would work? When you take your part out of the mold, I would first grab one side flange with a long clamp made of scrap 2x4, grab the other end with a similar clamp and then twist. The mold should flex more than the plug which will release the corners and work it's way in toward the center. You will probably have to repair most molds because Chevy C10 panels were made for stamping, not composite molding. The release angles aren't right. You will probably need to do repairs after you pull out each new part. I know some molds are good for production but I've never seen one. I would probably count on repairing every new mold, scuffing it, painting it and buffing out the surface to get rid of orange peel and create a surface that can release. One mold I worked with a chunk fell out but it wasn't an area that needed to look nice so after filling it we patched over the filler with clear packing tape. When the next part came out, the packing tape area had the best surface finish of the whole mold...

I thought mold release was water soluble so all you had to do was get that primer area wet and scrub it off right??? If you don’t have any Ive used that stuff and it works awesome

How much shorter is your bed from a regular short bed?

The mold is not a total failure, yes it has problems but I would have fixed the mold using body filler. When applying your fibre glass use a roller preferably a needle type or a hard roller and stiff brush to thoroughly work in the epoxy. Your tail gate should be painted and polished to a gloss finish for best mold release. The Primer on its own is too porous as it is intended for paint to bond on to. Yes you are learning but this is costly mistakes to make , It is unfortunate you didn’t Google or search KZread, I can guarantee there are expert videos that detail the process. Anyway keep going you will get a good outcome to be proud of. By the way just found your channel, the truck is so great already. My grandfather had the full size long WB, it is cool to see what you have done to make it so much better.

Use a roller to spread the resin it’s a lot faster hours faster

Does spray PVA release film not work with this type of gel coat? I would think that would work great on top of the wipe on stuff you are using.

@ericsisk9448

Ай бұрын

I was wondering the same thing.

This is KZread, everyone's an expert!! Lmao.

Lost of work keep at it you’ll get it