The fact that you can be insured against abuse at all is concerning in and of itself.

@erickalear7609

Ай бұрын

If you're willing to pay for it, pretty much everything can be insured. The rates increase dramatically depending on risk. Yeah, it's very weird, but "just in case X happens" is profitable for insurance industries and conmen; which is which gets a bit blurry...

@L9MN4sTCUk

Ай бұрын

@@MyForestofDean and every school and hospital and scouts group etc... Be they secular or not. It's the losing of the insurance that's the most telling.

@Maxrepfitgm

Ай бұрын

@@MyForestofDean That says a lot about churches if SA is prevalent enough to warrant coverage in the area.

@FunnyHaHa420

Ай бұрын

The fact that they NEED to be insured for it. There is a reason people in New Orleans can't get flood insurance.

@thebigpicture2032

Ай бұрын

The fact that they can’t be insured against abuse is the most concerning aspect. Clearly there’s been too many claims.

They didn't stop services because people were being hurt or at risk, but they stopped when there was a financial risk. God should be pleaaed.

@stevetournay6103

Ай бұрын

Y'all don't have a corner on Mammonism. That's another, almost separate, issue...

That they can even be offered sexual abuse coverage by insurance companies is bloody disturbing

@jeffbrinkerhoff5121

Ай бұрын

Yea... it's the insurance companies usually "doin' the screwin'"

@hopefletcher7420

Ай бұрын

In the past, maybe 40-50 years ago, there were no exclusions for SA. When everything hit the fan with the churches and Boy Scouts policies started including specific exclusion endorsements. To get the coverage it was carefully underwritten and coverage had it's own limit, was claims-made rather than occurrence, own deductible, and sometimes the limit included the cost to defend. Insurance companies respond to the needs of its clients. Providing coverage for the churches, not the actual abusers, filled a need and is not against public policy.

@renastone9355

25 күн бұрын

@@hopefletcher7420 Also: "Employment Practices Liability Insurance (EPLI) typically does not cover intentional acts, such as assault, battery, or criminal conduct. This includes intentional infliction of emotional distress and punitive damages. EPLI policies also usually exclude claims for bodily injury, property damage, and privacy violations."

@Yeldarb81

11 күн бұрын

Insurance is just another word for extortion, mafia stuff

The public: dont SA people Preacher: its ok, im insured

@Scanner9631

Ай бұрын

Alternately The public: dont SA people Preacher: I don't but some people make accusations hoping to get rich, I'm ensured to defend myself from false claims. (Not personally religious)

@stylesrj

Ай бұрын

@@Scanner9631 Preacher: Who told you I did that? I thought the cleanup teams made sure... I mean... I gotta defend myself from false calims!

@667SatansNeighbor

Ай бұрын

@@Scanner9631 Projection? Does the FBI need to take a look at your internet searches... preacher? Been accused? You don't need to answer... your comment says volumes.

@Scanner9631

Ай бұрын

@@667SatansNeighbor I'm not religious. I merely acknowledge that not ALL preachers are predators and the insurance helps defend them from false accusations.

@maargenbx1454

Ай бұрын

The insurance isn’t for the accused, it’s for the employing institution. If abuse occurs the perpetrator is dealt with as a criminal matter, but the church can be sued for not preventing the abuse. It’s like when a Walmart delivery driver had an accident while on the job driving a Walmart truck, the driver faced criminal charges, the company got sued.

I once accepted a Evangelical Church as a client (I'm a Human Resource Managment Consultant). I'm a lifelong Atheist but always keep that to myself professionally. I found them one of the most thoroughly unpleasant clients I had encountered and ended up firing them (yes, consultants can, and do, fire bad clients). I've had a number of faith-based clients and they were great, but these evangelicals were just combative and a lot cray-cray.

@Neville60001

Ай бұрын

How 'cray-cray' _were_ they?

@Whiskey.T.Foxtrot

Ай бұрын

@@Neville60001 Argued amongst themselves. Verbally abusive and misogynistic to the female manager and staff. Rude to one another I'm having a meeting with them on a serious legal/compliance matter that they asked me to resolve and a couple of them were in and out like they had ADHD. Basic chaos.

@Nymaz

Ай бұрын

As a long-term homeowner, I've had to deal with a LOT of contractors. The only two that totally screwed me were ones that had Christian imagery all over their vehicles/ads. I used to not care about that kind of stuff. Now I appreciate it because I know to avoid such companies like the plague. The way I've always put it is "People who feel they're right with God feel no need to be right with their fellow man."

@joanstepleton1637

Ай бұрын

In college I worked at a restaurant in South Carolina. The land of evangelicals. The church crowd was by far the worst crowd to ever work with. Rude, demanding, entitled and crappy tipping on their large parties. Then I heard how church people behave worse bc they feel entitled bc they are “so nice” and follow the lord. It’s a true phenomenon. Look up how altruism (church to me is fake altruism) makes people behave worse.

@jbos5107

Ай бұрын

@@Nymaz Never trust a business who uses Jesus to sell. Look at Mike Pillow. As a rule I don't trust people who claim to be christians. Most don't even know what that means.

Typical of these mega churches

@jbutler8585

Ай бұрын

I'm not even christian and the notion of megachurches is so insanely antithetical to what it's supposed to be about. WTF religion is this because it sure ain't christianity anymore.

@jbutler8585

Ай бұрын

I'm not even christian, and find the notion of megachurches offensively antithetical to what it's all about. NA christianity has mutated into some other religion entirely.

@jaymevosburgh3660

Ай бұрын

​@@jbutler8585 Having seen snake handlers and people drop to the floor while babbling literal nonsense that honestly believe is a message from a God, yes, you are absolutely correct! And it is so freaking scary & hilarious at the same exact time. Which I did not know was possible 😂

@Scanner9631

Ай бұрын

I'm seeing lots of 1 church denominations springing up all over and they seem very concerning to me. One had a sign calling them the "Apollisiic Church of Grace" 6 months later it was Apostolic Church of Grace" They were so ignorant of their own religion they couldn't spell its name and it took months for someone to tell them? You never know which of them is actually some type of wacko cult.

@covrtdesign5279

Ай бұрын

Typical of these churches, all of them.

The premise of abuse insurance should just be banned.

@lizcollinson2692

Ай бұрын

Yes, I understand general liability insurance, but specific abuse insurance implies that you can just buy people off.

@MattHudsonAtx

Ай бұрын

No it doesn't. It ensures victims get paid even when the church is broke because it's corrupt. They got their coverage pulled because they were seen as a risk.

@michaelburk9171

Ай бұрын

Like Small practice insurance

@Leith_Crowther

Ай бұрын

@@MattHudsonAtxThis might sound a bit harsh, but I think that preventing future victims (by a church shutting down to due lack of funds) is more important than paying past victims if it’s a choice between the two.

@BlanBonco

Ай бұрын

​​@@Leith_Crowtherabusers will probably just go to a new one. Futurama had robot ones it's literally text or code. Dash of Ai for questions

Me as an Atheist. I would never have guessed that this insurance was even a thing. When I can't think Christians couldn't be more despicable they prove me wrong(:-)

@shelbykuenning2575

Ай бұрын

Every organization that works with kids has insurance like this these days. It has nothing to do with Christianity.

@user-qc9ov9pc5j

Ай бұрын

​@shelbykunning2575 really?

@user-ki1un4jg2d

Ай бұрын

All Christians ? My wife has been called the best first grade teacher he ever knew by our Pastor . The kids love her . She teaches them the truth that they are value producing human beings created in God's image , and that they are not animals . The kids at our wonderful , diverse Fundamentalist Baptist Church , college and K - thru 12th grade school are well behaved as we teach them that they are humans and not animals . In public schools they teach kids that they are animals , then some of the kids behave like animals and bring guns to school and kill others . I blame the young man who shot at President Trump on Darwin and his idiotic ' theory ' , which has never been proven . btw - fossils are not evidence !

@kathleenmccrory9883

Ай бұрын

Every single time. There are good Christians, but they'd still be good people even if they weren't Christians. I've yet to meet someone who became a good person because they 'found' Jesus.

@thehellyousay

Ай бұрын

@@shelbykuenning2575 sure, right, christianity, the single most murderous and abusive religion in human history, has nothing to do with the requirement to be insured against abuses of children despite being the sole source in the western world of the education of children for the vast majority of the last 1500 years, sure.

Insurance for crimes is wild af 😮

@ZER0--

Ай бұрын

I can not believe it is actually a thing. It's focked up.

@Whiskey.T.Foxtrot

Ай бұрын

@@ZER0-- Religious privilege to treat crimes as a civil matter.

@littleredpony6868

Ай бұрын

I’m just finding out that this is a thing that you can get insurance for

@forallthestupidshit3550

Ай бұрын

They might see it as having insurance for "mistakes." You still get car insurance if you're a drunk driver. It just costs you more.

@yellowblanka6058

Ай бұрын

Yeah, I was trying to figure out if that was just a weirdly/wrongly worded video title, couldn’t believe it’s actually a thing. Nothing screams “I’m a deviant freak SA” more than buying SEX ABUSE insurance….cripes.

The fact that you can get this type of insurance at all is an indictment of how bad society has become.

@marcelladillard3556

Ай бұрын

SA in churches seems new because the curtain is being pulled back. My sister was abused as a little girl in a small baptist church--and at age 74yrs still refuses to even visit any church. 😮

@cryochick9044

Ай бұрын

​@@marcelladillard3556if it seems new then I feel bad for the people who think that way. History is often darker and covers up this sorta stuff for a reason (can't show Christians as the bad guys).

@pineapplepenumbra

Ай бұрын

Society generally, or the religious in particular?

@qjtvaddict

Ай бұрын

@@pineapplepenumbranot sure cause Pakistan has similar problems without Christianity Japan too

@AlbertHess-xy7ky

Ай бұрын

The abused deserve no compensation?

Its never the church's fault. Its the people's fault who found out about it. As a former New England catholic, i have seen this too many times.

@NYCHFAN

Ай бұрын

Your comment reminded me of a situation in a church I attended in the 1980's. A young, unmarried couple got pregnant. The woman was humiliated by being made to stand in front of the congregation, and confess her "sin" while her boyfriend was still working the sound system in good graces. 😡

@gawd4582

28 күн бұрын

Usually it's the the victims that are blamed for the people who have the right to complain about it.They're the ones blamed for this.They were temptresses.That's usually what they're called......

@user-zf3xb3qx8w

28 күн бұрын

@@NYCHFAN make 1660 great again??? bring back the dunk chair and the letter A on her bodice??!!

Other places manage fine by not allowing 1:1 contact. When my son was in Civil Air Patrol, I had to give explicit permission for a leader to drive him home from an event when it was just he and the leader in the vehicle - and this was decades ago. And I'm not missing the irony that some church will close for that, but maybe not for a pandemic.

@stickibug

Ай бұрын

Oof good point about closing. They'll close if they have to treat people well while open, and will not close in order to keep people safe. Scary stuff, and a very good observation.

@stevetournay6103

Ай бұрын

Pitiful, of course, but that's our world now.

Abuse Liability Insurance? The catholic church would *CLEARLY* be ineligible for such cover.

@thehellyousay

Ай бұрын

they've got far more money than these evangelical hucksters will ever be able to scam out of gullible fools.

@HarryNicNicholas

Ай бұрын

i believe that is indeed a problem for them already, part of the reasons that churches have closed - no money left after lawsuits. even general insurance cover has become a problem.

@melhudson6832

Ай бұрын

Who do you think is underwriting it on the reinsurance end, as an investment?

@FionaOfMountLawley

Ай бұрын

19 different Roman Catholic dioceses in the US have been bankrupted as a result of sexual abuse, along with one arch-diocese and two provinces. So in 22 different places, it has led to financial collapse. There was one diocese in California which was compelled to sell off most of its real estate to pay court ordered awards against it. So there's a diocese out there which is decidedly lacking in churches for people to go to.

I agreed with all the comments and the fact that you cannot continue with your church service because you NEED the sexual abuse insurance is astounding nuts.

Just some first hand knowledge of insurance in canada by someone who lives in canada (and just down the street from this situation). I’m a former minister/evangelical and i have a family member working for an evangelical church who is involved with the insurance side of things. I am also a survivor of sexual abuse in the evangelical church as a child so i speak from a place of experience. Insurance covers the whole church in a variety of ways and is not abuse specific. Abuse covers a small portion of a church’s insurance policy and this is common in all non-profit (religious or not) policies here in Canada. Churches are suppose to have written policies to prevent situations like Bruxy. Most churches in canada try to follow a program called “plan to protect.” This system puts in place a way to ensure the people volunteering at a church and staff have systems to follow to prevent abuse. Things like police checks, minimum amount of time attending the church and personal references are supposed to be there. The issue is that most pastors don’t take this seriously and will often jump their leaders into positions without proper screening… you know because god gives them specialized insight.

@user-zf3xb3qx8w

28 күн бұрын

Pastors need to be careful: not taking this seriously TODAY could end a career. I vet any contractor carefully and ANY part time employee as my building is full of senior ladies. Today, all bets are off: cover yourself any what you can and be cautious.

The Lord is working in mysterious ways... to support atheism!

@forallthestupidshit3550

Ай бұрын

Can we please upvote this comment all the way up to heaven 💚💚💚💚💚💚💚💚💚💚

@mamajuana3603

Ай бұрын

Athiesm is actually on the decline in younger generations🎉...turns out a life of meaningless morality taught by men without morals isnt good for society😂🎉

Will the day ever come when humanity realizes that religion doesn't make people any better than they are to begin with, and primarily serves to give license to the worst in human beings, so long as they claim that their god said it was OK?

@aheimdahl5201

Ай бұрын

Exactly

@karenkalweit6018

Ай бұрын

You get instant forgiveness, right?

@smokyquartz5817

29 күн бұрын

Instant access.

@mikehewitt2146

28 күн бұрын

Well said

@warrentaylor7117

23 күн бұрын

No. We are wretched human beings. It is only because of Jesus Christ's death on the cross that our sins are forgiven and we have access into heaven, otherwise like unbelievers we would be headed to hell.

I disagree. They deserve zero credit. The only reason they’re closing is financial-it has nothing to do with keeping anyone safe. Believe me, their lawyers would have well warned them long before it came to this

I work for an insurance company (we don't do health insurance). I was horrified at the concept that you can get insurance for sexual abuse. So I checked my company and in our case, we cover accusations of negligence but not the actual abuse. It seems pretty creepy that you can get insurance for a crime. Like do companies have insurance for murder?

@forallthestupidshit3550

Ай бұрын

Of course, they do. Malpractice insurance is basically the same thing

Once your children are much safer at a drag show than in church !

@stephanieroth16

Ай бұрын

It's not an either or thing. Have you seen some of these all welcome drag shows? Men in fake breasts, mocking women with grotesque makeup and overt sexual behavior, is not safe for children.

I'm surprised most churches still can get insurance under the circumstances these days

Folks in the comments are teaching me that this insurance is to pay out victims, which is great and important. However, I can't help but think that if this type of insurance didn't exist, then this behavior might have been stopped a long time ago, if an early victim had made them go bankrupt and dissolve. This kind of insurance seems to be ensuring that there will be more victims.

@sarah2.017

Ай бұрын

I have a feeling that it's intended to be used to pay for legal fees and medical expenses. This could be VERY useful in the event of a false accusation. I follow a YT channel called Kim Mikey, a husband and wife who are ex-Jehovah's Witnesses, and they were talking about how the Seventh-Day Adventist Church has a protocol for how to deal with SA, of a child OR an adult, if the perpetrator is a child themselves.

Maybe don't abuse people?

The cool church🥴 There’s insurance for sex offenders? Tax religion in the US! So glad we atheists have science and consenting partnerships with normal adults.

@MattHudsonAtx

Ай бұрын

@@erents1 atheists are out of pocket here, but not like the Christians

@AmberAmber

Ай бұрын

Yeah - sad to say this is 🇨🇦-where I am - we're the 17th most Atheist Nation, but our abusers are very American. I hate this. I have ptsd from this insanity from when I was a kid. Finding out Atheism was an option literally saved my life🫂🫂🫂🫂

@WrvrUgoThrUR

Ай бұрын

Correction: I’m atheist. We’re just as succeptible to participating in non-sense as any theist. Atheism is not a super hero cape. It’s a position in a claim.

@AmberAmber

Ай бұрын

@@WrvrUgoThrUR Whilst very true? There's definitely a bit of defiance against puritanical nonsense I've found amongst more atheists than xians. We tend to be more apt to deconstruct our harmful social views a little more thoroughly whilst simply questioning the fact that most people believe super silly stuff. We aren't better or smarter. We DO tend to embrace an appreciation for THIS life moreso than those who think we'll all be saved from climate change & greedy govts by merit of knowing a magical zombie isn't coming to rescue us. We aren't superheroes, but by questioning, there's often a freedom found & we'll be Apt to question other stuff. If we're lucky enough to be intellectually curious? We may explore many traditions & see the history of human barbarism as problematic. So yes - we aren't special- but we DID notice the shelf of irrational indoctrination in our heads broke & many of us feel horrible knowing these lies were told to us - well often seek truth simply cos being an atheist in a world of prostelysing oppressors is isolating & infuriating. XO Mostly agree xoxo (My info is based upon some scholarly articles I found & on my own 20 yrs of data collection re: social issues & civil rights denials - I'm fascinated by the oddities humans get up to in the name of an invisible guy who loves hats but hates bum-fun...)

Sex abuse coverage!? What the heck!

Imagine seeing that comment on the shutdown, and thinking to yourself, "Yeah, this is def the church for me!" I... I just can't, with these people.

I've worked with religious organizations as a consultant. You should know that they typically get their insurance from a religious-based insurance company. There is a good chance that this church was too corrupt for even a religion-based Insurer to risk.

@ottomaddoxx5360

Ай бұрын

Yeah, I was wondering about that. I'm sure there are some well known religious insurance funds. It's probably a pretty profitable little racket for some of them.

@thehellyousay

Ай бұрын

"too corrupt", eh? yeah, that scans ...

@sarah2.017

Ай бұрын

I worked for such a company in the early 1980s, and I typed up a cancellation form for a church that had a pastor and members who would go to gay bars and abortion clinics, write down license plate numbers, and then find out where these people worked and call up their employers and tell them where their cars had been. I have no idea how they got that information, but I got that info from a newspaper article in the file.

Mike Bickle must have visited that church as a "Guest Predator."

This type of insurance is pretty expensive. I looked it up, and one site said it costs about 5500 USD a year. It didn't mention amount of coverage or anything. The story here is that the church is so bad at basic protection of the people who attend it that even the insurance industry won't deal with it. But any place that has a lot of people to people contact, whether young or old, probably has to get some kind of liability insurance that covers any of these possible human interactions that turn out to be questionable or illegal. It'll cover legal fees for accusations, even if unfounded.

Why don't they just pray to jeebus for insurance? Prayer works, right?

My question would be, what have they done to address the abuse and the sources of the abuse? It sounds like they've not taken steps to ferret it out.

@forallthestupidshit3550

Ай бұрын

Well, they talked to the guy and he said Jesus is cool with his apology. So problem solved according to the church.

Likely they’ll shut down only to re-open under a different name.

only a christian would insure against abuse. how is that even legal? "i'm going to commit a crime and if i get caught i want to be paid a huge sum of money" that seems a little insane on every level.

That "sexual abuse liability" insurance exists is insane, churches and other organizations should not be allowed to insulate themselves from SA liability through insurance.

Im Canadian & have PTSD from childhood "stuff". TY @Friendly Atheist cos your reports make up for the pain of no justice.

So I actually am an insurance claims adjuster in the same province (Ontario). I am not on the team that handles this type of claim but if someone was accidentally injured on their premises then I might receive that claim. Anyway Canada is not the same as the US and we have a different approach on this kind of thing. “An act of sexual abuse is, according to the Supreme Court of Canada, never accidental from the point of view of the perpetrator. An institution can be responsible, however, for acts of abuse caused by its negligent or accidental conduct. Vicarious liability for the acts of an abuser is, from the institution’s perspective, accidental.” -taken from Canadian Underwriter, just now The next thing to consider is if it was a single event or multiple. This is because our coverages are renewed annually (so you’re correct in that no insurer would want to assume their risk given the number of simultaneous claims, but not just for the cost of it - we are greedy capitalists just like you). If the assaults/abuses occurred across multiple policies then each policy responds individually. (From the same page on Canadian Underwriter, also just now): Sexual abusers cannot obtain insurance coverage for lawsuits brought by their victims. However, the institutions they work for may be entitled to coverage for vicarious liability or independent negligence contributing to the abuse (i. e. the failure to warn others, negligent hiring or the failure to supervise). So hopefully that helps some people makes sense of things a little.

@EarrationalIdeas

Ай бұрын

I get this. My thought process was that even the most conscientious organization can miss something or make an error in judgment during the vetting process. This case appears to be not that at all though.

@amarketing8749

Ай бұрын

​​@@EarrationalIdeas 4 different pastors SA people. Not a coincidence. I wouldn't trust anybody in that church.

@mikedaniels969

Ай бұрын

@@EarrationalIdeas correct. But the victims will have access to funding for any health/psych care services they require, paid by this insurance rather than our universal provincial coverage so the community isn’t covering those costs, and will likely get compensation for lost wages and other things like that. Insurance for this kind of thing is more for the purpose of legal defence for the accused, who may be found not guilty since sometimes accusations are false right? and also to ensure that victims can get whatever help they need generally without taking from the public purse.

I’ve never heard of them. I tend to avoid mega church’s.

@mdtdbe

Ай бұрын

Churches. “Church’s” is genitive.

@carisaunders2346

Ай бұрын

I didn't even know Canada had a mega church, and I live in Ontario, Canada, and a former christian from a family of christians.

@carisaunders2346

Ай бұрын

3rd largest church in Canada! Never ever heard of them! en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Meeting_House

@CanadianAnglican

Ай бұрын

@@carisaunders2346 I haven’t. I grew up Methodist in a black church. We didn’t really talk about other denominations

@phoenixgirl70

29 күн бұрын

@@carisaunders2346Thank goodness not even close to the mega churches in the US. None of which help anyone. They only buy mansions and private jets. The “prosperity gospel” pretty much goes against everything Jesus taught. The congregation just hopes they’ll get rich too and the pastors present themselves as proof it works. It’s mind boggling. I know the old creepy guy with the blue eyes is very close to being a billionaire. Kenneth Copeland! The good that money could do…it’s just infuriating.

Oh shit! I've met this guy! I didn't like him. I had bad feeling about that church at the beginning. I'm so glad I left all that church shenanigans. So many "cool" and "hip" churches in Hamilton, that are just really messed up, I do have a good amount of stories to share about the church community in Hamilton and surrounding area.

It’s almost like the insurance company is afraid it would be too close to being complicit in or an accessory to future abuse if it renewed the sexual abuse policy. What do they know that law enforcement or the public doesn’t?

@IaIaCthulhuFtagn

Ай бұрын

The insurance company doesn't care about the crime, they just don't want to take a client that they will likely have to pay out on.

Watching the news plus personal experience has taught me that the more conservative the church is the higher the chance of abuse. I attended an Independent Baptist School in 7th grade back in the 1960's. It was the only private school with openings that my Mom could find after realizing how bad the public school was. Luckily I wasn't a member of that Church, we belonged to the Episcopal Church back then. And because I wasn't a member of their church my name went on the blackboard as "needing salvation". And keep in mind I was 11 years old at the time. Now I'll give the school credit for teaching Sex Education. Of course those classes were split into boys/girls. The Rev. Bob Gray taught the sex ed for the boys. They did an OK job of the basic facts but of course they constantly said you can't do it until you're married. When talking about erections he said before he called on a boy to standup and answer a question he'd look at their crotch to make sure they didn't have a erection. To my 11yr old self I thought "that's nice of him" 😥 At the same time this was going on the Reverend was molesting girls at the church/school and did so from the 1940's until the 1970's. When accusers came forward they were told they'd go to hell for accusing the Reverend. As the police were preparing to make an arrest the church sent the Reverend Gray overseas to be a "missionary". A few years later he had to return for medical treatment. He was arrested and died in the county jail waiting for trial. A book was written about him: Devil in the Baptist Church: Bob Gray's Unholy Trinity.

Insane that something like sexual abuse insurrance even exists!

Is his Tattoo sarcasm to God??? He should have put verses Leviticus 14;48++ bird magic potion spell to dispel house mold spell that lingered around done by the exact same God... Very logical, God used a dispel to counter his own spell, top notch God

@davidmehling4310

Ай бұрын

Plus there is a verse in Leviticus prohibiting marks or cuttings on the flesh for the dead, which is sometimes interpreted as "the Bible forbids tattoos."

Ok, let's put aside that it even exists. Abuse Liability insurance has to be EXTREMELY expensive. Is this the reason they're always passing around the collection plate?

My old car insurance company told me the same thing-we have a couple highways that run thru our town so since there’s more accidents, our rates increase. If they’re constantly paying out for accidents in the same areas, they’re raising rates on everyone in that zip code😠 that’s definitely a “church” the public doesn’t need to be a part of😱

Blessed are the underwriters.

Does Boeing have "whistleblower-assassination liability insurance"?

Oh come on they're just following the Catholic procedure

@stevetournay6103

Ай бұрын

You're being facetious, I know, but The Meeting House was certainly not Catholic...

Me: I'm from Ontario I've never heard of him. Also me: oh he's from Hamilton, no wonder.

A few years ago this would have made a good story in The Onion. Now satire and reality have gotten harder to distinguish.

"I'm not a rapist I just need sexual assault insurance" ...what an odd thing to say

Oh goodness... This is in my hometown and I know people that worked and went there. I went to a few services but that's it. I'm glad I never got sucked in further.

In the early 1980s, I worked in the typing pool for an insurance company that worked a lot with churches. One day, I got a stack of files for cancelled policies, "Reason: Underwriter's judgment" and one in particular had a newspaper article in it. I skimmed it before typing it up, and this pastor and his parishioners were going to abortion clinics and gay bars, writing down license plate numbers, and then calling up their employers and telling them where their cars had been. I wondered how they got this information, but they were just the insurance company and this was all they could do. I don't remember where this was.

@NYCHFAN

Ай бұрын

😮

The audio keeps dropping out and garbling.

To be fair the insurance is to protect you even against allegations of abuse, regardless whether it's true. Like professional liability insurance. You aren't required to have it because you suck, you're required to have it in case someone claims you suck, basically. Same with abuse insurance, they need it in case someone claims abuse. In this church's case enough claims were historically substantiated that they straight up can say "Yeah, you suck, you confirmed it."

He looks like a creep!

@bootskanchelsis3337

Ай бұрын

because nearly all of them are. .

@BlanBonco

Ай бұрын

Did Jarod or Cosby? I think it's mostly after the fact. Sometimes intuition right tho

@user-qc9ov9pc5j

Ай бұрын

Yes, yes, they did. ​@BlanBonco

My home insurance policy says I’m not covered for anything that occurs due to criminal activities… churches should be held to the same standard.

Since this is in Canada, obviously there are different rules governing insurance and the types of coverage offered but it would be nice to know what insurance company had been offering "abuse coverage" in the first place. If I lived in Canada, I'd certainly want to know so I could get my own insurance policies pulled from that company and switch to one that absolutely does not offer such coverage to ANY group or individual (though I kind of doubt an individual could even obtain such coverage without raising some serious red flags). I'm guessing that the "abuse coverage" is some kind of corporate/business-specific offering that covers all sorts of abusive behavior (not just sexual abuse but other physical, verbal or mental abuse by an employer or a supervisor against employees--such as a supervisor routinely calls an employee "worthless and lazy" in front of his co-workers or goes around calling them "maggots" or ethnic/sexual slurs and, despite reporting the matter to HR and HR refuses to take action against the supervisor) but I know I wouldn't want to be paying car or life or property insurance premiums to a company that may be paying money to victims of bad corporate personnel practices. (Not saying the victims don't deserve compensation but insurers pay money from ALL policy holders' premiums--not just the people paying "abuse coverage.")

Can other organizations get crime insurance? Asking for a friend.

@kathleenhillock9366

Ай бұрын

Mafia governments lead the pack.

That’s precious, thank you Mehta.

The fact there is so many counterfeits should tell you the genuine is very valuable

As someone who has lived in Ontario most of their life, i have never heard of this pastor's church before today.

And yet people are still going to this Church.

@miskatonic_alumni

Ай бұрын

"Objective morality"

This is why intelligent people have turned away from organized religion. Think about it!

Grifters got to grift

@stevetournay6103

Ай бұрын

Well except for the "yes you can still donate!" thing, this isn't really about that...

In Canada yes they do need this insurance. It's packaged with general liability.

Literally that is what Leviticus 19:28 says. What are those parishioners thinking?

Abuse insurance is called morality. Something devoid in the church.

Why does insurance for this exist? Is there murder insurance as well?

@MattHudsonAtx

Ай бұрын

You can insure almost any event.

@pdxcorgidad

Ай бұрын

Depends on skin tone and gender.

@nlitenme

Ай бұрын

Life insurance

@MrFinbarz

Ай бұрын

@@MattHudsonAtx yes broadly. Not sure you can insure yourself against murdering somebody else. I mean I know Trump has sort of managed to make himself immune fro. Prosecution and police enjoy qualified immunity, but that isn't the same.

Religious organizations need SA insurance...Let that sink in.

Predators go where preying is easy. ( pun intended)

We can't provide you with fire protection insurance, you keep lighting bonfires in your living room.

That type of insurance is common in many organizations, it is to protect the incorporation against the actions of individuals that may be doing questionable things. If an employee has done illegal actions the company is protected, not the person.

@finnmcginn9931

26 күн бұрын

Executive Risk/Directors and Officers liability/Sexual misconduct insurance are all common place in most large companies no? I'm just a tree farmer but my sister in law works for an insurance company that offers all sorts of risk insurance, including kidnap and ransom.

Spiritual leaders??? who abuse their flock, preaching and teaching??? about sin and morality.

This is in my city, I vaguely remember the name having handmade signs on telephone posts around. Oh I will be keeping an eye on them going forward.

The situation is bizarre and disturbing. I can’t imagine them thinking they should TELL everyone about it though! Talk about a lack of awareness 😮.

You know a person is a double barrel hypocrite when they have a Leviticus tattoo.

Thanks! I like what you do, thank you for putting a spotlight on religious hypocrisy. 🙌🏻💕

I live in Ontario and never heard of this guy until he was charged. Not as influential as they like to think.

Incredible. So much for Christianity making believers better people.

This is why I'm a Christian who doesn't go to church. As soon as something like this happens, everyone that goes there looks suspect. I am the only person I can control, and I am the only person I will be held accountable for. I would never force anyone to follow my beliefs, but I could definitely understand why someone would not want to be a Christian with this kind of madness happening all the time.

Insurance doesn't protect parishioners from abuse, it protects the church.

As a Sunday go to meetin' guy, I must say it's great you've pointed this out. And I agree with you that there is a ton of irony that such behavior can occur at a church, although the Bible describes man as fundamentally flawed in need of God's grace. Hopefully all perps will see justice in Canada's legal system and in heaven where Ministers are judged at a higher standard.

I find it mind boggling that you can get insurance for sexual abuse.

The fact that any church would need this kind of insurance speaks volumes about how horrible churches actually are!

How the hell do you get insurance for committing a felony?

@stevetournay6103

Ай бұрын

Heh. In the USA you can get total immunity for it. So why not insurance?

@eq2092

Ай бұрын

@@stevetournay6103 immunity for what last time I checked my insurance it doesn't cover loses e for commiting a crime?

@stylesrj

Ай бұрын

From what I've read in this comments section, hospitals have malpractice insurance. So churches have... wrongdoing insurance?

I've served on numerous non profit religious institutions boars. I remember the issues of getting insurance. Some had internal "pool" insurers others were major insurers who had divisions specialized in insuring churches. All of the policies had provisions for ministerial abuse coverage built into the premium.

Maybe the church can continue as an online church. I'm trying to think of ways you can have church without sexually abusing anyone.

Always a glitchy connection, what gives?

An insurance payout is not Justice. It’s a payout.

I would imagine the Mormon church also has this kind of coverage? Then again maybe they are self insured? They do have over 250 billion in their banks so they could easily afford to pay out any claims. This is just wild, I never even knew there was insurance for sex abuse in churches. I learn something new every day...

Evil upon evil, sexual abuse & insurance to cover liability of it happening.. Wow!

Worldly advice: Never eat anything bigger than your head, and never trust anyone who voluntarily calls themselves "Bruxey".

That this guy put a tattoo of Leviticus 19:28 proudly on his arm tells me they havent read their own propoganda and says even more about his 'congregation'

If you need to insure yourself against SA settlements youre prly the bad guys

And they probably also like to say that LGBT people are grooming. In addition, it'd be nice if people went to churches and threw the donation thing on the group and quote Jesus in the Bible where he says "you have turned the house of my father from a place of prayer into a den of thieves." to the clergy in regards to accepting money from the congregants.

I'm a retired insurance coverage lawyer - meaning I represented insurers (not the insureds). And, yeah, most businesses (whether they have a history of claims like this or not)carry EPL coverage - employment liability/abuse coverage. Note that the EPL coverage will also cover cases where, say, an employee (or former employee) might sue the employer for wrongful termination or some other claim that has nothing to do with abuse/harassment. So for this entity to "go bare" and not have such coverage, would open it up to operating without basic coverage protecting it from lawsuits having nothing to do with sexual abuse. (Although, to be clear, it's obvious why the insurers are refusing to provide such coverage here!)

@renastone9355

25 күн бұрын

Should've added that with this kind of case, insurers may provide a defense - but almost certainly won't indemnify the insured for a judgment which rests on intentional assault (sexual or otherwise).

This thumbnail proves you really CAN judge a book by its cover now and then

So abuse is an expected risk at a Christian Church. LOL, when they tell you who they are believe them.

Not even a little shocked anymore.

WTF??? I didn't know there was such a thing as sexual abuse insurance. I'm not surprised that one church's officials committed so much abuse, & showed so little legitimate effort at reform no insurance company would cover them.