The logic behind the disaproval of polygamy on the basis that "in the Bible it is often followed by trouble" doesn't really hold, for the simple reason that there are as much trouble in monogamous relationships... Also, to say that some Scriptures are descriptive and others are prescriptive does not invalidate polygamy. As a matter of fact, when God rebuked king David for committing adultery with Bathsheba, he told him that he had already given him wives and concubines, and that if it wasn't enough, He (God) could have given him more... So God did not have an issue with polygamy per se, he had an issue with David stealing another man's wife. My two cents 🤷🏾‍♂️

@nodiet8660

2 ай бұрын

Bro did not read Mark 10:6-9, 1 Timothy 3:12 and 1 Corinthians 7:2-3.

Here's a fun historical fact: monogamy did not become the norm for the jews and early judeo-christians because of religious reasons, because they assumed polygamy and had no issue with it. The problem was that polygamy was illegal in the Roman empire. So much so that they had to negociate with the roman authorities to maintain this practice... So historicslly, it was the society that pressured them to adopt monogamy as the norm, not the Bible. Today, Christians assume monogamy as the norm because it fits with our culture. But it was NOT always that way...

Whew Chile! This was so good!

Really well done, y'all! Great answers with multiple angles from Lisa, Flame and T.R.U.T.H.

@sonjawilliams7777

Жыл бұрын

Well said..descriptive vs prescriptive. We always have to look at context when studying God's word. The is a complete view of who God is and his view on matters of life.

@AMac5

Жыл бұрын

@@sonjawilliams7777 ~ we are human and incapable of fully knowing who God is!! Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? Psalms 145:3 Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; and his greatness is unsearchable. ⬆️ this means that we can't fully understand how great God is!!! Ecclesiastes 11:5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all. We don't even understand how a baby grows bones in the womb so we can't possibly have a complete view of the entity that created us all!!!

@747_Ryan

Жыл бұрын

@@sonjawilliams7777 So you agreed when she used those terms and threw out the accusation King David raped Bathsheba? Smh. Saying King David raped Bathsheba was an unbiblical lie! You have to have poor reading comprehension to read (2 Samuel 11&12) and deduce Bathsheba was raped. You should not just make things up that aren't in the text. Especially, slander accusations towards God's anointed!

These discussions are awesome. For me it goes back to the question Jesus asked the young man in Luke " How do you read it?" meaning the scripture . The is God's self disclosure to man. Man is the supporting cast of actors the main attraction is God himself. So whenever we lose focus of that we see what's left. People fixation with people.

Yooo this was BEAUTIFUL! Praying someone gets this to Cam and B Simmone. Not from a place of condemnation but just to share GOD’s heart on some of things that we as humans need to learn. Descriptive vs Prescriptive was REALLY good as well. May the lord continue to bring about healthy conversations so we grow in understanding of His perfect will for humanity! Sending y’all love! 🫱🏾‍🫲🏽🖤

@Polygyny

Жыл бұрын

Based this "prescriptive/descriptive" logic nowhere was monogamy "prescribed" - people where either single, monogamy or polygyny and noone was punished by God for either of these conditions, unless a married woman was touched

Can someone drop the link to the full discussion this was good and interesting

Description and prescriptive I like your spirit behind the argument just not where you used it. Solomon and David having multiple wives is prescribed in the Law of YHVH, YH HIMSELF is Poly. There are laws in Torah that teaches us how to have Holy/Righteous Polygamous marriages; that is prescribed. The prohibition is, Do not take many wives, and from your view 700 and 300 is “many” how ever within context, many is not a quantity. “Many” solely depends upon your ability to provide and take care of you wife. If you can only afford one woman/wife financially, emotionally, spiritually, psychologically, physically but you are married to two; you have too many wives.

@passportpapi713

11 күн бұрын

Very well said

Very good explanation from da truth.

Really good contextually accurate responses. It's so simple when we take the time and this emphasises the NEED we have for each other sound teachers. ❤

“Descriptive vs Prescriptive” as explained by the panel, still doesn’t mean that YHVH is against polygyny. That explanation doesn’t speak to whether or not YHVH is against polygyny. Saying that polygynous relationships are filled with drama, jealousy, etc. still doesn’t mean God is against it. Using that logic, should we question one man-one woman marriages because of the drama and sin that we see with Adam and Eve and other marriages throughout the Bible? Someone pointed to 1 Corinthians 7:2...the original text doesn’t say “let each man have ONE wife and each woman ONE man.” The Greek word for one in that verse isn’t used. 2 Samuel 12:8...YHVH tells David He would have given him more wives if he would have asked, rather than killing a man to take his wife.

@mrmonay

Жыл бұрын

Bingo. Not many get this, but glad to see more stepping out to say it.

@msnoel10

Жыл бұрын

Hmm… fair point. But.. If marriage is a symbol of Christ and the church, then I think that will simply answer the question. How many brides does God have? How many wives did He pursue? Also where does the story of Hosea and Gomer fit in this? Where God clearly used their real life experience to teach us something about His relationship with us as His people. All this to say that there are several scriptures but it all comes back to - what example has God Himself given us?

@mrmonay

Жыл бұрын

@@msnoel10 God referenced himself as having two wives, Jesus told a parable at one point symbolizing him marrying five out of 10 virgins… to name a few… why do we feel the need to keep grasping at straws to try to make some weak argument like this? Is it a sin? No. Did God ever outlaw the practice? No. Did God prescribe monogamy for all? No. Did God prescribe celibacy for all? No. So why do we keep acting like 2 wives is somehow radically different Biblically than 1 when there are plenty of examples of it sprinkled all throughout? It’s creating scripture from culture when we are supposed to be creating culture from scripture. If 1:1 marriage ratios are God’s design, why do they fail so often? At least Christians should be humming along nicely in their marriages following what we consider the standard so well, and yet…

@alain4lyfe

Жыл бұрын

@@msnoel10 ​ if you believe that point then God is being descriptive and not prescriptive 😅. Because in 2 Samuel 12:8 and places in Deuteronomy and exodus God literally prescribed instructions on how to deal with 2 wives if you choose to have them. This is just an emotional point in the Christian church mainly raised by the dramatic increase in feminist Christian women.

@msnoel10

Жыл бұрын

@@mrmonay I think your line of questioning is a stretch. A lot of it. God made one man and one woman in the beginning and called it a marriage. That’s where the definition of marriage should begin and end. This was in a perfect world before the fall. If He wanted anything different He would have done so during Creation. God does not contradict Himself. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. If He says something today, He still means it tomorrow and I hope we can take what His ideal will was for His Creation in Genesis 1 and 2 and remain in hope that we will one day be restored back to Eden. Be blessed 😊🙏🏾

Why did you guys repost a very old video covering this rather than addressing it today?

Good discussion but what people don't understand is we are to go by the instructions to given to Paul and what Christ told him to give to us today Paul letters are where we find our gospel and how to walk as believers today

Do women really want to share their husband though? Let's be honest. There are women who would go along with it bc they love the man. But it's very rare to find a women who actually WANTS to share her husband. I definitely don't. Monogamy for me please and thank you

@Iceman-oc4ep

Жыл бұрын

Preach

@Polygyny

Жыл бұрын

Whether the man is monogamous or polygynynous is not the woman's choice and never has been or will be The man is the head of the woman so the woman does not exclusively own the man

@passportpapi713

11 күн бұрын

Well there’s a whole bunch of things I can list that a woman really doesn’t want to do in a relationship, for starters do women really want to be submissive these days?? I think it was more of a time period thing, since women work now they also don’t want to real make more money than their man, does she really want to lead her man in a relationship?? What I’ve learned is women are jealous and men are more territorial, both can be either but women are much more jealous, or envious of other women. So sure she may not want to share her man, but it’s either share this rich man who u are really into, ORRRR go get with the poor man who will still share unknowingly bc he’s going to more than likely slip up and cheat within 20 years. Either way life’s about trade offs and give and take, u trade in a little bad, and receive a lot of good, or you can trade in a little good and receive a lot of bad, either way the best thing for her isn’t her happiness it’s her survival bc as long as you have the security or surviving and and not stressing about your next meal or maintaining your resources that in itself will create happiness, which is a more stable, concrete absolute compared to, u changing your mindset and perception on how u view your man especially since u are benefitting way more than you are actually putting in the pot. You would think the least u can do when u inherit your kings kingdom is learn to accept that he’s a king and gift him the ability to fulfill his desires bc it’s happening with or without u, he’s fulfilling your desires. People do this for jobs every day. Everyone has things they don’t like about their jobs, but if it pays well u can overlook some of the bad bc the pay and benefits makes it more tolerable. If you are working a low paying job that has a lot of bad, u will be seeking a replacement. I find it odd that women get lucky enough to get a rich man that they are attracted too and feel entitled to his treasures and try to dictate who he has around. You should be grateful to even be able to share him let alone have him to yourself, thats an unwarranted ego that’ does not have to be fulfilled . My feelings are not priority bc if they were I wouldn’t be working where I’m working bc my quality of life is what gives me the best result in the end, if my quality of life is bad I’m depressed, so I change my perception and realized damn I’m lucky to be here.

Listen, most of the times people just want an excuse to sin and live their lives and even more so it's the sin nature that looks for a tricky way to get God to accept and sign off on something that He never attended to be. We be wise to listen to His word and focus on what He did say not try to find loopholes for what He did not agree or sign off on.

@Iceman-oc4ep

Жыл бұрын

Well said, i love it

@Polygyny

Жыл бұрын

God literally regulated polygyny and blessed polygynous men and said He was the husband of two (Judah and Israel in books Ezekiel and Jeremiah) - how much more accepting or clearer does God need to be? Leave people to righteously apply God's allowances according to preference/context/ability. Paul said false teachers would forbid marriage and unfortunately Chrisitianity is guilty of this when they condemn polygyny practised by the "Hall of famers" Jesus Christ himself was a descendents of numerous acts of polygyny and all such cases were honoured in scriptures

@Jericho-xs3ju

9 ай бұрын

Plus. When the Bible sais Joash lives righteous in the eyes of God and was given two wives and it flat out sais he gave David his wives and would have given him more if it was not enough

Cam Newton 🤦🏾‍♀️🤷🏾‍♀️. Not surprised he said what he said.

This is why you must meditate on the word day and night so your not mislead by the uninformed out twisters of the word. Just because it's described in the Bible doesn't mean it's prescribed.

So we just gon ignore how she lied on King David?

@stephanegb

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I caught that as well I was like huh rape !!! Wait a minute naw

@warforte4071

Жыл бұрын

She definitely did. He did not grapé Bathsheba 🤦🏿‍♂️😮‍💨

Why not?

The sister mentioned David raped Bathsheba. Where does it say David raped Bathsheba? And if so where were the consequences from Torah that David faced for that offense? “David sent and inquired about the woman, and someone said, “Is this not Bathsheba the daughter of Eliam, the wife of Uriah the Hittite?” Then David sent messengers and took her, and she came to him, and he slept with her. (Now she had been purifying herself from her uncleanness.) And she returned to her house. The woman became pregnant, and she sent and told David, and she said, “I am pregnant.”” ‭‭2 Samuel‬ ‭11:3-5‬ ‭LEB‬‬

@alittlesickducksucks

Жыл бұрын

It's widely considered rape by coercion. He was king and her husband's commander. She didn't have a choice but to do what he told her to do.

@houseofmayim5557

Жыл бұрын

@@alittlesickducksucks Y'all have to be very careful of what you're prescribing as doctrine. You're bearing witness that “a man after God's own heart”, a man that "God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne," from A RAPIST! This is very dangerous territory.

@mikes9413

Жыл бұрын

@@alittlesickducksucks hey thanks for your response. Can you give me scripture and historical evidence that proves what you are saying?

@alittlesickducksucks

Жыл бұрын

@@mikes9413 Now you know there's no scripture that's going to call it rape. I said "widely considered," meaning that's how biblical scholars and theologians and other generally not terrible human beings contextualize that incident. But 2 Samuel 12: 7-12 might also indicate that David's actions with Uriah AND Bathsheba were both [separately] displeasing to God, not just the fact that David got a man killed to cover up his taking the man's wife.

Well done. The culture needs and must be set straight when it attempts to justify a wrong, especially when trying to use the Scripture to do it.

YO Cam's segments were disturbing my soul! 1 Cor 7:2 Paul says each man should have one wife and each woman one husband. Jesus spoke of it in Matthew 19 as "the 2 becoming 1." When people with influence speak incorrectly on the bible it's like watching a car crash.

@obadiyah100truth3

Жыл бұрын

The Bible Does Not Condemn Polygny...There Are At Least A Minimum of 30 up to 38/40 Who Had Polygny Marital Relationships...No One Never & I Do Mean Never Ever Mentions These Other Relationships....Besides The Holy Bible(The Most Powerful Weapon in The Universe), There Are At Least 10 to 15 Books That Have Been Researched About This Touchy,Controversial Subject Matter....We Have To Look At The Historical Context(Time,Purpose & Reason) for Why The Most High-ELOHIM Allowed & Ordained Multiple Wives...Most Men Within The Black Community Will Say"Man, I Don't Need Another Wife, I Don't Think I Can Handle Multiple Wives", But Yet Have Multiple Women in Their Rotation or Have Two or Three Side-Chicks...Polygny is To Be Done In Prayer,Holiness & Righteousness with Patriarchal Order, Structure & Discipline...Peace & Love,Brotha!!!

@SleepyENT07

Жыл бұрын

I agree fam! People pick the parts the Bible they want to prescribe but not know this is a description and those very lifestyles caused the fall of David and Solomon because they took Him away from Gods heart. It truly take the Holy Spirit to guide him. I pray for that brother

@ShandaP018

Жыл бұрын

Honestly. The Solomon, David argument is so base level. That just shows you read it but took no time to understand. Psalms is David pleading, praising to reobtain his former favor. Solomon had the same problem. His many strange wives caused him to worship their gods. Let's go back further Abraham didn't want Hagar. That was Sarah undermining the most high. Jacob was tricked into having two wives. Guys like Cam who are ok with polygyny don't tell their partners until after they're together already, usually by way of cheating.

@mrmonay

Жыл бұрын

@@ShandaP018 You're using cherry picked examples taken out of context to make your argument, and then applying it to guys like Cam, as if only un-righteous, sinful men, and women, would ever practice polygyny. Except that's clearly not the case, but since it confirms your bias, you're happy to claim it does. People that claim the Bible doesn't support polygyny, monogamy, and staying single, are very "base level" ... just the same as anyone only using Solomon/David as their evidence "for" it are very base level, you're right on one side of it at least.

@mrmonay

Жыл бұрын

1 Cor 7:2 on the surface says that, but careful translation research indicates it's not what you're arguing that it is... essentially it boils down to saying that the husband is supposed to have the wife to "himself" (exclusive) and the wife is supposed to have (her/a) husband and that *can* be non-exclusive. We are reading into words translated into English from Greek/Hebrew that don't mean what we want them to mean, plain and simple. God had plenty of opportunity if he wanted to even in the Greek/Hebrew SPELL IT OUT that polygyny was a sin, it was not to be practiced, and it was wrong, but he didn't. So man convincing himself that it is based on scripture he doesn't fully understand, both literally (translations) and contextually (cultural differences/idioms/manners of phrase) is adding to the word of God, and he does not like that, and there are consequences, we should be careful.

Yes, a Christian man may have two wives in accordance with the divine polygyny marital Laws of God. Study ALL the scriptures to show thyself approved and use scriptures to interpret scriptures.

I HATE when famous people who claim to be Christian speak on it and have mis informatiom

The hall of famers😂great discussion guys. Calm and respectful whilst God respecting.

1st Corinthians 3:18 "Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise!" Tell me you wanna sleep around without regulations without telling us you wanna sleep around without regulations. 😐

@Flame “Let me AXE 🪓 you…” My man has a Graduate Degree talkin’ ‘bout “AXE.” 😂 Jokes aside, solid responses from the panel, descriptive is not 🟰 prescriptive and recorded is not 🟰endorsement.

@wm8673

Жыл бұрын

Please don't make communication jokes concerning a people who walked the planet first and taught others languages, sciences, and other disciplines for which they stole and passed it off as their own.

In the Bible, when God had an issue with a type of relationship, He let the Israelites know by speaking against it. He spoke out against adultery, bestiality, incest, and so on. Curiously, he never spoke out against polygamy... Not only he didn't speak out against it, he even used it to bring about his promise to multiply Abraham exceedingly. If he had an issue, he could have rejected the patriarches offsprings born from 2nd+ wives and concubines, just like he did with Ismael born of Agar, which he rejected, but he didn't. God does not have an issue with polygamy, we do. Or rather, some of us do. I appreciate Da Truth and Flame's honest response, but their take is much more philosophical than biblical.

@Lemuel_Ben_Israel

Жыл бұрын

So the casting out of Hagar and the casting out of her son does not give a clear understanding even in 2023

@fritzj787

Жыл бұрын

@@Lemuel_Ben_Israel well I don't see how Hagar being cast out, or any other relationship issues that may occur, invalidates polygamy, when you have similar situations happening in monogamous marriages... The question is "Does God have an issue with polygamy?". From a biblical standpoint the answer is no 🤷🏾‍♂️ And even historically, the early Christians didn't have an issue with it. And by the way, monogamy did not become the standard in the Church because of religious or biblical reasons, but rather because the Roman empire made polygamy illegal on its territory. That's how this cultural practice was done away with in Christianity.

This woman who said King David raped Bathsheba should be ashamed of herself! How do you read 2 Samuel chapters 11 and 12, and deduce King David raped Bathsheba? There was nothing written in the Bible to imply that the sex was rape. All we see is a sexual encounter and adultery. This lady on the show should not be adding lies to a great Biblical characters name! Literally everyone who reads the Bible disagrees with her usage of rape here. And the other members of the panel are pathetic for not correcting her or saying anything. That means everyone is comfortable with misinformation to people who don't read the Bible often. I am seriously shocked noone even tried to correct this lie. Pathetic slander. Amnon and Tamar was rape. However, this was clearly intentionally her opinion on King David and Bathsheba incident. She didn't seem remotely confused on what incident it was. Rather, her reading comprehension was just terrible.

@Polygyny

Жыл бұрын

Too much feminism has made a lot of "church" people say stuff in arrogance. God will hold all these things into account on the last day

If you ask me why, I would be for polygyny it’s the same reason I would be for monogamy. Marriage is Marriage. If a man has the wherewithal to manage two wives or more and those woman desire to be with him, he is a wealthy man indeed. Would I recommend it, No. All men don’t possess the same gifts, they can bearly manage themselves let alone one wife. It is better that a man stay single as long as he can before seeking a wife.

I wish someone would have mentioned or discussed Paul’s prescriptions to Timothy for deacons. I really didn’t hear a clear or direct answer to his question regarding the Bible not actually saying a man is to only have one wife. Paul’s prescription to Timothy regarding deacons is the only example I know of other than a more general application of “the 2 shall become one.” Is there even one example of a man married to one woman in the Bible for his lifetime?

I don’t think it’s a sin I never seen it in the Bible

Deut 17:17

1 Timothy 3:2 one wife

@mrmonay

Жыл бұрын

Except that is not what 1 Timothy 3:2 says, or is about, or what the words mean in context, and if you accept that they do, then you introduce other problems, but most folks never think about or get past that... because it's enough to confirm their biases so they just keep spouting it off over and over and believing they are right.

@christianperez1980

Жыл бұрын

@@mrmonay what problem is that? Women cant be pastors?

@christianperez1980

Жыл бұрын

@@mrmonay If you feel women should be Pastors elders than you are in complete disagreement.

@mrmonay

Жыл бұрын

@@christianperez1980 No women can't be pastors or elders, that's obvious... But if you assume that the verse mentions "husband of one wife" and take that for meaning only married to one woman, it excludes single men, who have dedicated their life to Christ. The next issue is that it doesn't include language on sexual immorality, because you could be a married "husband of one wife", theoretically, and have an affair, but still be within the rules laid out for an elder. Because fornication wouldn't be a deal breaker, just being married to one wife, and fornication doesn't automatically divorce you. That makes NO sense. But if "husband of one wife" is merely an idiom that back then truly meant "wasn't promiscuous" (which was VERY common among monogamous roman men at the time) then it covers all the bases, what it doesn't do however, is exclude a man with 2 wives, or a man with 0 wives. It makes WAY more sense read that way and causes no problems.

@christianperez1980

Жыл бұрын

@@mrmonay I see what your saying God bless

Scripture does speak on YH’s blanket description of marriage for us. It’s just not any of the reason you all have presented on this panel.

Well stated. All things are truly written in the Bible, but all things are not truly stated by God. All things must be rightly divided. Therefore, the Bible is not the exact “word of God.” “Men” wrote by inspiration about God from their perspective! So, put that into deep thought! Lastly, why is it that we follow a Jewish culture concerning life? I look to Christ, but not to Jewish culture to be my guide in life.

This was a wonderful breakdown of the question. Sadly, confused ppl like Cam and Nick Cannon that have a massive audience are publicizing this misguided translation to the masses.

@mrmonay

Жыл бұрын

That's not entirely true... they may be coming at it from the wrong angle, or the wrong intent, but that doesn't mean they are translating the scripture wrong, when in fact most Christians preaching monogamy are far more incorrect in what they recite than those claiming the Bible supports polygyny, yet it is often those who, with the least amount of actual scriptural backup or understanding, are the most confident in their position. (Dunning-Kruger effect).

God never condemns or states that polygyny is a sin in the Bible. God allows a man to have another wife in Exodus 21:10 “If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights.” Also, God actually commands that if a man’s brother dies with no children he is to take his brothers widow as his wife & raise up children in his brothers name. It’s called Levirate marriage. Also, in Matthew 25 Christ likens the Kingdom of Heaven to a polygynous marriage. Western society has demonized & made polygyny illegal & that’s why people think it’s wrong. It’s Western socialization.

Polygyny is perfectly biblical. Roman law and feminism forbid polygyny, not God.

Sir HUUUUUUSH

You guys are worried about his views on polygamy, and missing the fact that this man is not redeemed. It starts at being a believer.

POLYGYNY MARRIAGE IS LIFE LONG...

@IAMWORLDBULLYCOMPOUNDGLOBAL

Жыл бұрын

A MAN WITH MULTIPLE WIVES....CARE LESS WHAT AN EVIL WORLD THINKS... HE KNOWS HIS WAY IS BLESSED.

Also lol Paul said to love your wife not wives lol

@mrmonay

Жыл бұрын

Paul also said you could be single, does that mean you can only be single? God said to have sex with all your wives if you have them... not just the 1. Paul also said this during a time in Rome where polygyny was outlawed, monogamy was the standard... but faithfulness by men was not, going outside the marriage was almost expected by men back then. So Paul not saying wives(s) doesn't inherently PRESCRIBE anything, he's simply speaking to the 1st option in marriage, the one that was legal in that culture, which would be to marry 1, and it would APPLY the same to wife 2-3 as well in a culture or society that allowed it. It's silly to presume that Paul was prescribing monogamy as the standard by this, it's a massive stretch at best. God has instructions for multiple wives, no where were those instructions invalidated. We should stop pretending as though they were.

What's interesting for me is how Cam, out of all the things he should focus on, he goes into believing polygamy is good smh

@germanehabib7345

Жыл бұрын

😂😂🤣🤣

@Iceman-oc4ep

Жыл бұрын

This guy is sad, and we wonder why the black culture is in the trash.

@Iceman-oc4ep

Жыл бұрын

@@Welcome2GU But what has his actions been as a man. Anyone can read the Bible and make interpretations but the true test is following God. Has Cam done that?

@Iceman-oc4ep

Жыл бұрын

@@Welcome2GU I understand that but his actions and his business in the streets trump everything.

@Iceman-oc4ep

Жыл бұрын

@@Welcome2GU He was defending this life style along with other things as well.

Is "a" not singular?

@warforte4071

Жыл бұрын

No. Have a car doesn’t restrict to “only one car”

If the STRONGEST argument Christians can find or come up with is the constantly repeated "just because it's descriptive, doesn't mean it's prescriptive" ... well then you're going to continue to lose this argument. God did prescribe it, but not to everyone, same as monogamous marriage. He specifically commanded men of multiple wives to make sure to treat them fairly, to have sex with all of them, etc... Just that alone nullifies the silly "descriptive not prescriptive" argument. Some men having poor outcomes from polygyny does not equate to God outlawing it or having an issue with it, anymore than the millions of monogamous marriages failing being a reason for God having an issue with 1:1 marriage. It's terrible argument to make, and it's ADDING to the Word of God, which he is very explicit about not doing. If you can't show where God outlawed the polygyny structure, then you can't say that he did. You can't claim it's not ideal, you can't claim 1:1 is ideal, because if you did then you would have to argue that not getting married is fundamentally not ideal as well based on the logic you use to get there. We should be more careful about being SO confident on a position the vast majority of us haven't spent even 1 hour researching.

Polygyny is only prescribed if you are a high value man. Are you a high value man?

Adam only had one wife and she caused him to turn his back on God. The Torah OT warns us against women hating Gods wisdom and want to live according to her own way.

Y'all gotta go deeper. How do we come to the conclusion that Solomon or David, or any other person in the Bible who had multiple wives wasn't doing what was acceptable by God. According to scripture, all of these men were punished when they went against God's will - If that's true, why wasn't having multiple wives articulated through scriptures as sin in the old testament? I think starting in the new testament informs us a bit clearer when Jesus speaks on divorce, but that still leaves a large gap between the old and the new testaments to be reconciled; namely, if wrong is defined in this argument and polygamy is on the chopping block, when did the transition away from polygamy start, and how did we end up where we are today in our Western belief system. Something to think about: most people struggle with scriptures, because explaining things away, without engaging historical context seems to be the default for many Christian's.

@BearingMySeoul

Жыл бұрын

That's a great question! What I say to anyone, Christian or not, the difference between us and the Old Testament "righteous" is that we have Holy Spirit and they didn't. People who like to emphasize that David was a bad father, murderer, and adulterer but a "man after God's heart" don't believe in allowing the Holy Spirit to LEAD them, including changes in behavior. The only thing Jesus left behind on earth was the Holy Spirit. If people want to live under the Old Testament, live under ALL of it. In fact, just become Muslim: multiple wives, no mandate to forgive enemies, reliance on outward displays of piety. Jesus says RADICAL things about what is required to follow Him. He says that people who did amazing spiritual deeds still won't make it into heaven without relationship with Him (Matt. 7:21-23). The book of Revelation tells us that the sexually immoral will be thrown into the lake of fire (Rev. 21:6-8) and mostly importantly that Jesus, the Lamb of God, has ONE bride. If Jesus wanted to have multiple brides, He most certainly could but He does not. Why then should anyone think that they should have more wives than the Lord of heaven? 🤔

@onyeilonyeil9468

Жыл бұрын

I don't think God said in the Tanakh(old testament) dat polygamy is a sin, it's more that u should avoid it due to marital issues. According to Scripture from wat I know, even Moses whom Yeshua(Jesus) referred to wen asked about divorce had one wife, Zipporah in Midian. Jesus answered dem dat God's intention for marriage in d beginning (Adam & Eve) wasn't divorce. We can see d complications dat took place with Abraham (even though it was Sarah dat told him to do it), Jacob, David, I can't even imagine Solomon. It has nothing to do with western beliefs, Jesus made it clear dat marriage b/n 1 man & 1 woman was God's original intent.

@live150withcoachmoon

Жыл бұрын

@@BearingMySeoul Thanks for sharing and interesting point(s) of view. Couple questions for you though - Do you believe David went to heaven when he died? It would seem hard to grasp the description of David being a man after Gods own heart, and being as blatantly as sinful as he was. I would assume that he's in heaven regardless of his failures to meet the expectations that God set in the law (even before the death of Christ), because of how the scriptures define him. I'm asking this question because you bring up contradictions that people have with questioning old testament ethics compared to a modern day context, as if wrestling with how the Bible (from Gen to Rev) should inform our morality today doesn’t matter. The real question that I have is not connected to what we know is wrong or right (according to God's law), rather, is polygamy blatantly sin? By the way, I'm married to one wife and don't desire to be married to multiple. Also, , I'm struggling with your non-symbolic reference to Jesus and his bride (the Church) in connection to this conversation. If we're going to make this non-symbilic, we have to play the numbes game - Jesus being one, is married to the church being one in essence, but many billions in nature. I'd rather keep to the symbolic reference, and I am a member of that church (saved). I agree with you on the Holy Spirit changing the whole game up, but how many other questionable issues like this aren't being addressed outside of rhetoric and "what my pastors told me" types of conversations? Even with the Holy Spirit, there are still questionable issues that we have to contend with, and giving our private interpretation of scriptures seems a bit problematic to me. Please note that I'm not trying to be vitriolic, I'm just seeking a deeper connection with what I think I know, to what really is - and I'm a believer... so imagine what a non-believer is dealing with. I think we can be clearer in how we approach issues like these.

@live150withcoachmoon

Жыл бұрын

@@onyeilonyeil9468 Thanks for your perspective, but God's intent (or purpose) for man was for man to be sinless and in relationship with him in the garden - that didn't work out well as we all know, but God still gave man the law as a guide, and sin was specifically spelled out. I guess what I'm trying to point out here is, polygamy wasn't one of those things that he pointed out as sin. For that reason are we to come to the conclusion that it's wrong, and that with all the things that some do better than others, it could never be done wisely? If we're saying that it's not wise I could understand your perspective better, but it's not wise to do a lot of things regardless of the context, but "is it sin against God?" is the question. If not, my opinion is, our belief system (western) and our cultures informs us over the truth. And the argument of descriptive vs prescriptive - comparing it to murder (which is actually articulated as sin in the Bible) in my humble opinion, is not an accurate portrait to share if we're looking to provide a full perspective to people who have questions around this topic.

@BearingMySeoul

Жыл бұрын

​@@live150withcoachmoon All good conversation is welcome. I get the idea of wanting to make "the rules" unequivocally clear but God Himself didn't do that so that we would have to seek Him. That's what I would say to any nonbeliever. Once we SURRENDER to God by letting Him take the lead, we're suddenly able to understand all sorts of things about His character that were difficult to chart out previously. Anyways, I'll assume that David's in whatever heaven Old Testament folks got to. And I had to giggle reading this: "one in essence, but many billions in nature."! Isn't that the description of every captivating woman ever? 😉 But again, we're asking each other if polygamy sin when we should be asking the creator! Any believer who is seriously conflicted about this matter should spend some time fasting and praying on it. Jesus said, "My sheep know my voice" (John 10:27). Surely, He will answer a sincere heart. Lastly, I'd argue every interpretation of scripture is personal. Some just have more support than others. Humility and knowledge of God's Word is what keeps any of us from flying off the rails.

4:10 David didn't do that to Bathsheba! Don'tchu dare Me Too the man after God's own heart! What happened between them was as consensual as they come....SMH. 🤷🏾‍♂️🙄🤦🏾‍♂️

@HolyGoonie7

Жыл бұрын

No sir. The biblical definition of rape is sex with a woman who is under the charge of another man. A daughter under a father/ male guardian, or a wife under a husband, or a forceful rape as we know it today of course.

@timlee9886

Жыл бұрын

I wouldn’t say so…there was such an imbalance of power that she couldn’t really refuse. He’s a king and women don’t have many rights in that time so idk if it’s that cut and dry.

@germanehabib7345

Жыл бұрын

@@timlee9886 That is still not the R word though. A lot of women up till this day are still stoked to be in the presence of a ruler, how much more to be picked by a ruler like King David to sleep with... 🤷🏾‍♂️

@lovefelix1566

Жыл бұрын

It wasn't consensual... she didn't have a choice...

@germanehabib7345

Жыл бұрын

@@lovefelix1566 It wasn't (g)RaPe either. Otherwise, it would have been stated, just like in the case of Amnon and Tamar, King David's children....SMH

1. The Israelites were a Polygynous nation. Monogamy alone was NEVER the norm, it was just a part of the Polygynous society. A man could always have one or more wives. The most had one and then about 15-30% had more than one. Rome started the monogamy sanctions to limit and control Israelite family structure. 2. Never ask a typical Neo Christian these questions, they'll always make up some ambiguous emotional based theology instead of just accepting and understanding Hebrew Biblical Culture. aka the culture of God.

Yes!! Descriptive vs Prescriptive that's good!!

@MR.BREEZETIME

9 ай бұрын

No, that's not good, more like some junk that's not in the Bible, just a quick made-up response what's in the Bible is what God never changed and that's men having more than one wife stop trying to change God and use examples of bad things that happen ignoring all the good things multiple women brought which is very much people all following this is very cult like and David didn't rape anyone she also said that

God did say you could have multiple wise. The white man said you can’t because he can’t compete so he put limitation on how many women American have but as long as you’re able to provide for multiple women and take care of multiple women and love, multiple women and do it in righteousness, that is the whole key righteousness and you can find that keeping the law and statues of Commandments and have multiple wives come, we just don’t know the Bible and refuse to study the original scrolls and Hebrew and Greek no wonder y’all

The bible is silent on polygamy the biblical writers allowed their prejudice and bias against polygamy to write negative consequences of polygamy Exodus 21:19. God says if a man marries another wife he should not neglect the first wife materially and conjugaly

This is a very patriarchal perspective...perhaps we should center women and their desires in the conversation

@mrmonay

Жыл бұрын

God was very patriarchal, both in perspective and in his teaching... we should respect that and not let our desires reshape it.

@AbbyTVY

Жыл бұрын

@@mrmonay but you (and men) are not God.

@slide3496

Жыл бұрын

Nobody cares your feelings are hurt.

God was NEVER ok with polygamy although he allowed it. Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. He never instructed men to take multiple wives.

@levimahan2393

Жыл бұрын

Why would God allow it and regulate it in Leviticus if he was never ok with it? Seems like it would have been easy to ban it considering He had no problem banning homosexual and bestial relations.

@YouAREyoubeYou

Жыл бұрын

@@levimahan2393 he told people to keep the 7th day Sabbath but people still don’t do it. Just like things today are illegal;yet, people still break laws. It’s called free will sir.

@levimahan2393

Жыл бұрын

@@YouAREyoubeYou I agree people break laws. The issue is God never made a law against polygyny for us to break. You see, in order to be breaking the law, the law must exist in the first place. God never required men to take multiple wives, just like he never required them to take even one wife. However, he could have easily banned having multiple wives when he banned other sexual relationships. Why did he choose to not ban it then? He CHOSE to NOT make a law against it when he easily could have. That is the biggest issue. I'm not saying all men should have multiple wives, I'm not even saying that most should. But I am saying that it was never outlawed by God. It was outlawed by the Greeks and Romans we get so much of our culture from today.

@YouAREyoubeYou

Жыл бұрын

@@levimahan2393 I never said he banned it. It was just not celebrated. But you have a right to believe whatever you like. Just like their wasn’t a law for tithing when Abraham gave a tenth of his increase to Melchizedek. So if you want multiple wives go right ahead sir. Most men can’t even handle one-so that’s that.

@YouAREyoubeYou

Жыл бұрын

@@levimahan2393 Look what happened to these men because of polygamy. Abraham lost his son. Jacob shunned Leah. The MH had to bless her because of it. David lost a son and ALL his childrens had numerous problems. Solomon was shunned and fell out of favor with the MH because of it. Then it essentially stopped.

And the way ole boy is understanding marriage from a Scriptural stand point is completely wrong. A man (human) shall leave his father 💦 then his Mother 👶🏾 👦🏾🧔🏾and cling (have sexual relations) to his wife 🧔🏾+👸🏾= and the two shall become one flesh 👶🏾, therefore what YHVH put together no man can separate. The scripture does not say you can separate a marriage if you try really hard. It says you cannot separate a marriage. This why YHVH does not believe in divorce (divorce is a human construct that YH allowed on earth). Also why YH says Divorce is a violent act because you are trying to rip apart 👶🏾 what won’t or can’t be. Marriage is the one flesh you created with your wife.

@Polygyny

Жыл бұрын

A man can have multiple separate marriages with multiple women. One flesh is not literal but symbolic Hope you've considered this

The scripture never said David raped Bathsheba..... that is utterly false and disgusting to say. 2 Samuel 12:24 says that David comforted Bathsheba and then went in unto her and lay with her. It NEVER SAID King David raped anybody. I hope this was an honest mistake. How dare you speak falsehood on a King that is anointed by the Most High! remember what Jeremiah 23:1 says... "Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! Saith YAH"

@Polygyny

Жыл бұрын

There's a reason why Paul said women are not teach a mixed congregation - they are easily deceived just as Paul said about the serpent deceiving Eve. This is what happens when women are not properly covered by fathers and husbands, they speak out of line

Paul is noy scripture

New covenant in Christ teaches on having one wife. Do not add to, do not take away from and as it was said, context is key. 1 Timothy 3:2 & Titus 1:6

@Polygyny

Жыл бұрын

No it doesn't plus God's law did not change because of the new covenant - God has never allowed sin in either covenant. Polygyny's status didn't change between covenants at all and Jesus did not at any one time contradict his Father who gave the laws to Moses

Men can have multiple wives and women can’t do nothing about it, God don’t change, he has laws about polygyny, y’all need to study more

@MR.BREEZETIME

9 ай бұрын

Thank you. This world has lost masculinity and bowed down to this hyper feminine world. The men laughing up there have side chicks

So sad to see how far "Christians" have fallen..... y'all need to stop the adultery and blasphemy. So far removed from the covenant of Christ and don't know who his God is by name..... So Sad....

Cam isn't named in the Bible, but the Bible teaches that he's a false teacher.

Brother in the brown hat does not know the Bible

Despite the conclusion this panel came to, God was and is never against polygamy. He wasn’t against anything those men did either. They were his FAVORITE, and that’s the bottom line. GOD isn’t against it. Furthermore, the Bible is allegory. Those beings, stories & scripture represent something else entirely.

@mrmonay

Жыл бұрын

It's incredibly difficult to get past the social and cultural programming of modern western Christians (I am one) ... on this matter. Trust me even as a man it was difficult to dive into this topic and research it to find out almost all of what I heard preached was wrong, mistranslated, out of context, and drawing conclusions that just aren't there. But I can no longer (unless new info comes along or God puts it on my heart/mind) argue that monogamous marriage is God's only option, there just isn't anything to support that, and there are many examples/scripture to support the opposite argument.

Why would anyone listen to this man? Does he even read? 🤦🏾‍♀️

King David and others did sin by marrying multiple women. Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart not turn away: Neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold. - Deuteronomy 17:17

@Polygyny

Жыл бұрын

Stop lying 🤥 David only sinned by having sex with a married woman and killing her husband That verse you part quotes also mentioned not to multiple horses, gold/silver - does this mean a king could only have one piece of each? That's ridiculous 😒 If God doesn't call something sin who are you to overturn it and say it is sin? I didn't know God couldn't speak clearly and needs help from his creatures

@MSbeksy

10 ай бұрын

Study to show yourself approved...cause u way off

@Messenger000

10 ай бұрын

@@MSbeksy It’s also mentioned in the commandments / do not covet they neighbor’s wife. I won’t be convinced otherwise.

God never condoned for Kings even in the Old testament to have multiple wives they were just being rebellious and did it anyway. Deuteronomy 17:14-17 KJV When thou art come unto the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me; [15] Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the Lord thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother. [16] But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the Lord hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way. [17] Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

@ashleyelabo1714

Жыл бұрын

was just about to share this

@ShandaP018

Жыл бұрын

It's refreshing to know that there are men that know this

@antwilliams3

Жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dron/EYzuTFYvhzzz2oMGWvRBgg.html

@mrmonay

Жыл бұрын

So using this logic, a king can't have more than 1 horse, or more than a little gold and silver? The point here isn't restricting a king to 1 wife, it's telling him not to horde them, same as horses, same as gold and silver. This verse does nothing for the argument against polygyny except perhaps show that there is a fundamental limit, and your reasons for it should be righteous... Solomon certainly didn't need 1000 wives, but to claim that is justification for claiming that God says you may only have 1 is wrong, plain and simple. God most certainly condoned the behavior of 1 man, with more than 1 wife, he never condemned the act itself, he gave rules and guidelines when doing it, he spoke of Himself at points as being married to more than 1 (symbolically) ... We need to be very careful about definitively CLAIMING something, where there is no definitive claim to be made, and attributing it to God. Show me the verse(s) where God outlaws the practice, you'll be looking for a while, because it's not there. If the best you can show is drawing correlation and assuming, you have proven only that we need to talk more about it, more openly, and more honestly.

@ShandaP018

Жыл бұрын

@@mrmonay I just told you Deuteronomy. You just want it in today's language and the most high to spell it out for you. Go and do it for yourself. You're rationalizing being ignorant at this point..

Cam sounds dumb.

Many Christians, like Cam Newton simply don't know the difference between the two covenants. People, Judaism is not Christianity, and Christianity is not Judaism. Oy! 1. Polygamy is "permissible" in Old Testament Judaism (Exodus 21:10; Deuteronomy 21:15). The twelve sons of Jacob (Israel) are from his four wives. Jacob (Israel) & Leah - Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah (Genesis 29:31-35), Issachar, & Zebulun (Genesis 30:14-20). Jacob (Israel) & Bilhah - Dan, & Naphtali - (Genesis 30:1-8). Jacob (Israel) & Zilpah - Gad, & Asher (Genesis 30:11-13). Jacob (Israel) & Rachel - Joseph (Genesis 30:22-24), & Benjamin (Genesis 35:16-18). 2. Monogamy is in New Testament Christianity (1 Timothy 3:2,12; Titus 1:6; Matthew 19:4-5; Mark 10:6-8). He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

@Polygyny

Жыл бұрын

The New Convenant was made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah so the target is still the same as the old covenant - the only difference is the Gentiles are also considered to be God's people Also the new covenant didn't change any of the laws and practices for righteous living and Paul said all scripture is to be used for righteous living. The definition for righteous living didn't change between covenants. Polygyny is just as valid in the new as in the old 👍

@pierreferguson1300

Жыл бұрын

@@Polygyny Matthew 5:43 is not Matthew 5:44. Hebrews 7:11-12; Jeremiah 31:31-32; Hebrews 8. And you clearly put old wine into new wineskins. Oy!

Why would you say that David raped Bathsheba, how misleading!? His sin was bad enough without you adding that BS to it. The reason why the rest of the world ganged up against us and made it a color thing 500 years ago, is because we were naturally attracting all the women. Why don’t you start with that point? If you don’t have a relationship with the author of the Bible, you will never understand any of the points that HE was making. Most people read the Bible from a white-washed, brainwashed perspective. It’s not about how many wives you have, it’s about choosing wisely. Solomon failed, his wives caused him to start worshiping the gods that they were accustomed to. The point of the matter is, 1 women can cause you to sin against the CREATOR just as fast as 5 will.

@mrmonay

Жыл бұрын

You're on the right track brother, keep it up...

@tribeofjesse6191

Жыл бұрын

@@mrmonay thanks sir!

@jaws5204

Жыл бұрын

no woman can cause you to sin, it's a choice you make

@tribeofjesse6191

Жыл бұрын

@@jaws5204 is that what I actually said, or did I say sin against the CREATOR? Maybe your opinion needs to be verified by the actual account, because The CREATOR actually warned Solomon that it would happen. I prefer to take HIS word over your. Do your research on the subject before you open your mouth. Facts mean nothing to some people.

@jaws5204

Жыл бұрын

@@tribeofjesse6191 committing any type of sin, is sinning against God. And like I said we are responsible for our own actions. To say the women caused Solomon to sin is not right. Sin is a choice. God did warn Solomon. But Solomon chose to still marry those women. Which led his away from God.

Y’all are blasphemous for speaking on kind David like that … straight wicked

@Polygyny

Жыл бұрын

"Christian" feminists have no shame unfortunately

I'm a man and I believe in polygamy for all the women who don't take a look in the mirror. How many different baby daddies do you have?