The governing body is accountable for what have been doing to all their followers poor people who are still living inside of the bubble of watchtower

@leonoresterillq8758

Жыл бұрын

Germany JW dead watch video

@jakelynbrook

Жыл бұрын

@@leonoresterillq8758 Do you have a link for the video?

@Sosimples650

Жыл бұрын

But those inside the bubble don’t realise there is a problem with the organization. They are taught that the gb isn’t perfect and are just human and doing their best. Hence any new light is just them advancing in their understanding.

@jakelynbrook

Жыл бұрын

@@Sosimples650 The “9 Human imperfects” should find “New Light 💡 “ and finally end shunning! I’ll loan them a flashlight 🔦 14:30 hours 9th March 2023.

When I left my elder father quit talking to me completely, but I was lucky to have a mother who could never

If they’ve ignored child abuse and any criminal behaviour YES they need to pay a price. Ex elders should be held accountable imo

I definitely think Elders etc.....should be held accountable legally!! They all knooooow and have seen or participated in CSA and didn't report it to police. I think your normal run of the Mill JW are ignorant to all the behind the curtain stuff.... and thy really really feel that shunning is a loving thing to help you come back and gain their fake Everlasting life they believe in.

@MariaNunes-po5rc

Жыл бұрын

Yes. Elders should be held accountable I read in many publications from WT. "" If you see your brother or your spirit sister doing something bad ,you are responsible to report it to the elders "' If that rule is to apply to rank and file It should apply to the elders first Right?? I,m to hold to put up with all the problems they create against children, and obviously against themselves. I was there for 47 years. I,m out CSA was the turning point for me. In good conscience I can't accept gross imorality done against children.... They create a huge desastre They have to solve it. I, continue to read the scriptures frequently on my own pace. Enough for me.

@MariaNunes-po5rc

Жыл бұрын

Correcting the frase: I,m to Old....

What the hell happened in Hamburg Germany tonight? Multiple Jehovah's witnesses murdered in a Kingdom Hall in Hamburg tonight! As an ex JW myself my heart goes out to everybody in that Kingdom Hall. Violence is never the answer

@jakelynbrook

Жыл бұрын

Is this on Fox 🦊 News 🗞️?

Plain and simple. GB feeds off of ignorance you are with them or against them. Hurts me to admit I thought lighting would strike me if I did not go along with.... my son who was in also always said they want you ignorant so no questions get asked. He was 8 when he said this.

In todays climate of information they are making a choice to follow along. Even if they are being held hostage by family ties or fear of discrimination. The witnesses are the ones enforcing the rules not the rules.

@lancerchoate3342

Жыл бұрын

Well said.

Everyone is accountable for their own actions.

@sharkofjoy

Жыл бұрын

A lot of people simply are not. People should be accountable for their own actions. This I do believe.

@mcgee227

Жыл бұрын

Science proves otherwise.

@ricksanchez9669

Жыл бұрын

in a perfect world...but that is definitely not that case.

@alisonschmitt9533

Жыл бұрын

Yes. This is the bottom line.

@Maknassar

Жыл бұрын

But what if the person was born into a cult and never knew otherwise? A person can only be accountable for their actions if they have a choice. It's not a choice, if doing the right thing = destruction at armageddon.

It's a hard issue. I've been disfellowshipped for thirty years, and just recently my family has begun to wake up. I don't see how blaming them for their following the doctrine that we'd all been raised with is going to make my life better, or how being bent on retribution is any better morally than the whole shunning thing.

@philipatkins405

Жыл бұрын

Is your family loss for shunning you how can they sleep at night peace and love

@psychologicalprojectionist

Жыл бұрын

I hope things work out. If its wrong to shun then it could be argued not forgiving those who shun you is also wrong.

@Dgarig665

Жыл бұрын

@Psychological Projectionist That's pretty much where I come down on it. Bummer about atheism is at the end of the day, you're only a good person for the value of being a good person. On the other hand, it does give one the option to be almost insufferably smug, so there's that.

RIP to the all the victims of the Hamburg shooting

i think it depends on how many people are hurt. Some witnesses hurt no one but themselves. Some destroy peoples lives. I would love to see my parents held accountable. I dont think being brainwashed excuses all behavior. No one would let a Nazi use that excuse.

I really enjoyed this topic. In my area I have seen parents who shunned their disfellowshipped kids and those who keep association but only at home or around family and those who flat out walk out of an elders meeting and announce they are leaving over not being allowed to talk to their child. The extent of the manipulation is usually a huge factor

@janderbing2961

Жыл бұрын

Be sure to leave if someone demands that you never talk to your child! It's against everything that a parent should do. No one should ever be able to dismantle the bond that families have.

@seansrecords

Жыл бұрын

@@janderbing2961 do you know many witnesses ? lots of dismantled families around me... mine especially on both mine and my wifes side

@janderbing2961

Жыл бұрын

@@seansrecords I do know lots of Witnesses both in and out and inbetween

I recently told my JW mother I have cancer, via text because she wouldn't answer her phone, and she didn't even respond back. She is making a conscious choice to ignore me when I could die.

@AlexisLexLexi

Жыл бұрын

No natural affection. 😢 I’m sorry you have to deal with that. Wishing the best. 💕

@Vicki_Benji

Жыл бұрын

@@AlexisLexLexi thank you. ❤

@motorway2roswell

Жыл бұрын

So sorry about your cancer, and your Uber jdub mom. Hopefully she'll come around, but she's an idiot for ignoring you. I really hope you can kick this cancer!

@alyssawoodman

Жыл бұрын

I don't want to sound harsh but unless your family wakes up they are dead to you and you are dead to them. That's the best way to handle it to be able to move on with your life. I lost my whole family to this cult. Their brains are high jacked. Wishing you a speedy recovery

@Dgarig665

Жыл бұрын

I'm so sorry you're dealing with that at this trying time. I'm an ex jw atheist, so I can't offer you my prayers, but my thoughts are with you.

Love his question… I totally understand the organization has terrible policies and is an extremely dangerous cult. However, one as an individual has to truly analyze what is being asked of them and act on it. If one decide to follow their unscriptural laws. They are just as guilty as the organization. Basically they are guilty by association. I grew up in this cult and never shunned anyone or never listen to their laws. I had a hard time believing in those 100%. Once I saw the A&E special it was very clear to me and fully understood at that point that they where lying to their followers. From that day on I never returned. The Organization is responsible for thousands of innocent people’s death and it is sad to learn that as you exit. Thanks For all You Do With Your Channel.

Cults cannot survive without followers to keep it alive and growing.

@jaflenbond7854

Жыл бұрын

FOLLOWERS OF THE ANTI-CHRISTS Followers and believers of the lies and false teachings of the anti-Christs Pastors and Leaders of Religions and Cults about Armageddon, hellfire, Trinity, rapture, and reincarnation are the liars, deceivers, hypocrites, slanderers, and murderers on planet earth who are mocking, defying, and opposing the authorities, teachings, and commandments of the Creator and his Christ FOLLOWERS OF THE CHRIST Followers and believers of the authority and teachings of the Christ about the Kingdom of God and Resurrection of the Dead will be honored and rewarded by the Creator with Eternal Life and existence without sufferings, griefs, pains, sickness, and deaths on a safe and peaceful earth without arrogant, cruel, and merciless atheists, agnostics, and fanatics of religions and cults, without liars, deceivers, slanderers, hypocrites, terrorists, criminals, and murderers.

I look at this the same as a soldier’s actions during war. Are their actions absolved by the fact that they were ordered to take such action ? To what level is one guilty of War Crimes ?

My two older brothers, now only my oldest brother is an elder, shun me. My older brother has been the PO for I don't know like close to 30 years if not more -- he can get mean and nasty to me verbally. I have chosen not to talk to my oldest brother occasionally I might talk to my second oldest brother but he still shuns me as well. I feel sorry for them that they're in a cult -- I feel sorry for them that they're missing out on an authentic life -- but they don't recognize any of that, they feel they're doing the best thing and living their best life. I just feel so sorry for them for being so blind. I do hold them accountable on some level they're just mean and nasty ugly not just to me but to other people that are disfellowship. To me that has something to say about their personality. Their personality that has been groomed by the Jehovah's Witness cult. So, although I cut them some sort of a break, I don't give them a free ticket to treating me however they want too. I choose not to go back for more punishment. If I have to talk to them it is only in a controlled situation where they can't get out of control. But really my life is so much better without their nonsense.

@jakelynbrook

Жыл бұрын

YES; Jay-double-you’s can be very rude, mean and nasty 🤮 20:10

@j.c.b6473

Жыл бұрын

I relate. I'm sorry. 💖

@EhudGirdsUp

Жыл бұрын

while you have these views ... please stay far away .... it is the right place ... but even you will be forgiven and welcomed back if you recant and repent ... even you.

@deborahd4310

Жыл бұрын

@@EhudGirdsUp I left because it was the only way to escape my abusive JW husband. I'm confused are you talking about me going back and being a Jehovah's Witness or to stay far away from it?

@j.c.b6473

Жыл бұрын

@@EhudGirdsUp If you are defending JWs, why are you looking at apostate material? Counting your time preaching to us?

In the US, the law says basically that if you do something under threat or other duress, you can’t be held accountable for those actions. Manipulation and misleading others into actions also has similar grounds for that kind of argumentation as well. However, like you said Lloyd, there is nuance to different situations. There are in fact, folks who actually take pleasure in shunning WITHOUT scriptural grounds from within the cult to do so, like former in-law family members of mine. What’s more, those former kin are by far not alone in their cult community, unfortunately. Bald-faced lies from others in their old social circles still occasionally surface out of unexpected corners, even years later now. Where there’s any kind of abuse or malicious behaviors on the part of JWs toward their non-JW family, I have absolutely no hesitation holding those folks accountable because they’re using heinous cult rules for their own personal, morally bankrupt ends to harm their own flesh and blood, in some cases, even beyond what the BOrg themselves require.

@EhudGirdsUp

Жыл бұрын

ah what did you do Barb? why were you evicted? sexual immorality? atheism? husband-beating? apostasy? none of the above! you were evicted for non-repentance, and if you claim to have been harshly judged .... well? here we are right now! and where exactly are you? hey ... even you can be welcomed back ... if you recant and repent, you will be welcomed. Not so for our host though .... he is heading straight to a corner of Hinnom.

@EhudGirdsUp

Жыл бұрын

😁

"'As a parent to turn off his instinct as a parent"... Dear Lloyd and all others who are being shunned by their parents, your courage and strength to continue your life without your own parents acknowledgement of your existence as a human being is really admirable. As a Mom I sending my sympathy.

A lot of the things my family has done because of their choice to obey this “organization” are unforgivable. They’re part of the ‘1975 crowd’. They didn’t have the internet then but because of seeing and hearing what they saw back then, they didn’t need the internet. The caller made a good point about the importance of consequences.

I haven’t hit play yet. My personal answer is, anyone who *chooses* to join: “fully accountable”.

@helenbirch5719

Жыл бұрын

What about children who are born in, and don't have a chance to hear any opposing information?

@alisonschmitt9533

Жыл бұрын

@@helenbirch5719 like me, you mean? You’ll notice I didn’t mention them. I said people who *choose* to join.

I woke up and still am struggling with guilt for shunning my cousin when it felt like a wrong thing to do, she had just lost her mother to mental illness at 17. I knew it was wrong and I did it for 20 years….I have repeatedly apologized. I apologized to others as well but I am having a hard time forgiving myself for her. I wish I could have been strong enough to do things differently😞

@seansrecords

Жыл бұрын

i am the same . i shunned my sister for 8 years and feel awful. she has said multiple times she forgives me but i still feel like i have hurt our bond . i wish also i could have walked but we are so entangled , i still hate having done it and although it began my waking up process it is something i hate

A “personal choice” that will get you disfellowshipped. Such deceiving practice…

Thank you for your work. I want to ask you to raise the topic of how American gurus drive their adherents into the head that they should not have children. I have several acquaintances, they are over 50 years old, their children are already adults, but they do not want children. They say that only in the new system will there be children. Failed grandfathers suffer, and their zombie children also suffer but do not understand this yet. I know several couples, they are already over 40 years old, they ran with their magazines all their lives, but they didn’t have any children. They thought and they were told that Armageddon would come soon ... but now the time has passed. They were left alone. There is no one to inherit their property, except for bros in America. We should talk about it everywhere, write to the authorities. This teaching is even against the Bible. Thank you!

Fantastic reasoning Lloyd. Got a lot to think about now! You could have been a good lawyer! ♥️

"I was just following orders."

even if everyone should be hold accountable. for their actions. It´s important to not become the monster you where hunting.

I recently had a JW apologise for shunning me ,I told him,,, No hard feelings, I use to shun people when I was a witness,, He still shuns me ,but waves and smiles at me, instead of treating me like the invisible man. Apparently there's rude shunning and polite shunning. The fact is this dear brother hates shunning me ,I use to hate shunning ex JWs too. Justin Porter ex jw ❤️

Great job explaining to the audience the difference between pure choice and [I]ntimidation from the cult! 20:10 Thanks again Lloyd for a great broadcast! 👌👍✔️✅🤔😎 20:20 Hours 8th March 2023.

I will spend the rest of my life making it up to my dear daughter.

@dianesicgala4310

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. Worst mistake of my life, becoming a crazy J.W. It a evil cult.

Wow, Lloyd, I think your bank robbery was sooo good, so spot on. Also, my experience with my JW sister has me convinced that cult mind control is real and insidious. It’s almost as though the Watchtower snatched her beautiful intelligent and logical mind and totally reprogrammed it. It is so baffling trying to talk with her. I don’t know how to reach her. No way can I see her as totally responsible and accountable for her intensely JW mindset. It’s the Watchtower I blame for hooking people in and messing up their minds.

@karenwestberg5838

Жыл бұрын

I meant bank robbery analogy.

True.,and convincing followers that watchtowers contain the truth no matter what or what not the bible says

Hi Loyd ❤❤ thanks for yout hard work.

A well-articulated question and a well-constructed answer. What I like about this episode is it got me thinking a bit more deeply here.

People, cultists or otherwise, should suffer the natural consequences of their actions. If a parent shuns their child, they should not expect a relationship with their grandchildren, or financial support. They're the ones who terminated the relationship. On the other hand, there's no call to go around trying do destroy their other relationships. Take the high ground. Don't lower yourself to petty revenge. You'll be in a much better position to renegotiate boundaries if they ever do come around.

I asked my mother when I was 5 years old if she would let me die if I needed a blood transfusion - and she said - oh sweetie! we will be together in the new system.But I persisted. " Would you let me die?" What a betrayal of basic trust. I said later as a teenager, I would think that you would save me, and stand the wrath of Jehovah, Didn't Jehovah stop Abraham's hand when he asked him to sacrifice Isaac?? She did not have an answer, or have any reasonable response.

I love this assessment of how personal values impact our choices! But it's also true, as you've hinted at, that abuse has a powerful impact on people and how they think. Anyone who's experiences abusive relationships even outside of religious/cult circumstances can attest to that. It's very complex!

Just heard about a mass killing at a German K.H. While WT must definitely be held accountable; These Individuals were merely duped into that Cult and did not deserve to die.😔☹💔 Condolences to their families.

🎶…..oh it’s a long hard fall from the top of the world, but it’s finally over…..so I keep it together thinking it’s not forever 🎼……. From 🇨🇦

I write this comment while the video is paused. I haven't yet heard Lloyd's response... I am a regular contributor to Quora. Recently, I answered a question from a person who stated - unambiguously - they were a "Pro-Life" supporter but didn't understand the "Pro-Choice" position and asked for contributors to explain it to them. My answer, in short, was that I refused to do that because - if they were staunchly pro-life - they can only have arrived at that stance after a careful examination of both sides of the debate. While I do not attack individual Jehovah's Witnesses (I attack the Organisation and its policies), I hold them to the same standard. If they are not going to examine both sides of a pronouncement from the Governing Body, they are giving passive support to the effects of any edict - especially the really shitty ones - and deserve to be held accountable for their lack of investigation and the harm caused by that decision. "Guilty by association" is the relevant term, I believe?

Hey Lloyd, you think you could say anything about the shooting in a German Kingdomhall? Apparently the shooter was an exJW…

Agreed. Well explained .

My mom got kicked out from JW, I was an adult, didnt living with her, I did not shunning her, it, I was helping my mom, I didnt leave her. But now when situation is other way around, she is shunning me. I still think it was my call, even I was member of JW I was her daughter. You cant hide behind the religion, you can do other way. Its if you truly love that person. I feel like someone is drunk same thing if you do something wrong its wrong.

At the risk of sounding naiive, I would think it’d be practically effortless to retain a loving relationship with your DF’d family member or friend. If elders ask about it, simply explain away with “we only talk about important family matters”, or “we never discuss spiritual matters”, or “the convo mostly consists of me encouraging them to return to the org”. Unless you’re constantly being filmed and wiretapped, I don’t see an issue.

@j.c.b6473

Жыл бұрын

My grandmother managed this. She just deferred to my Catholic grampa as the "head of the household." But if a person is totally brainwashed and in fear they're not going to do that.

Great video Lloyd!

The way I see it we are all incapable of judging whether or not we have a meaningful choice? That is why we should not get mad others, if you can. And if we are not hypocrites, we should all be open to the possibility of our being wrong.

I see what Danny and Lloyd are saying. I agree with both in different ways.

Scripturaly talking they are responsible for being unloving ... (Matthew 25) they should know that a Jesus christ follower is not under ANY law but only one principle related to two commands that are equivalent (Matthew 22 :37-40) --- it is their fear (related to their beliefs) that doesn't allow them to be charitable (even with themselves) ... Fear of losing or not getting something is the root of all evil - one could say it's the oponent favorit tool (it doesn't allow critical thinking process, it triggers pavlovien respons).

I can totally relate to what the caller said. However, I like what Lloyd said about the lies and the manipulation. However, I think that are paying a price right now. I know many parents who were really messed up, hoping their children would come back, because they were told to shun. They were/are sick with grief and worried for their children. And if that isnt enough get told by the elders that they were bad parents for not being able to controll their families. And that their children who they love are wicked and are going to die a terrible death. They had to learn to stuff those very sad feelings. Thats a lot to carry. I have compassion for them. Compassion is one of the most healing things I could do for myself to help get rid of the resentments. And as Lloyd also mentioned it's a process. Its just very sad all the way around.

Great answer as always. I also think it’s a good idea to try and remember what it was like when you were still a member. When I look back I realise I was like a zombie, doing what I was told, following the crowd, it never crossed my mind to question what was going on. Sad days, I feel sorry for regular jdubs now, stuck in a vicious group.

I don't know what to do now

Very good Loyd. You might say it’s a gun facing religion.

Shunning contradicts. Love thy neighbor and love those who hate you for my sake.

Love is the answer not shunning

19:30 That was a Big factor to, after 14yrs out, be willing to listen to you and some others. The picture painted by the org of all angry people who would say whatever lie, .... you proved to be not true and made me Finally listen and wake up

In some degree each JW is accountable for his behaviour and attitude. I wouldn’t blame the GB for everything.

my children are far too precious, i could never shun them which the main reason i stopped going to meetings,..soo much had happend i could tell you a story....

The JW cult can suit a narcistic person beautifully, I never was one however I have first hand experience in this regard. they pretty much hide behind the religion. Love your work Lloyd. your work Lloyd.

In general, I think the elders are accountable because they have information and access to information that the rank and file do not have. Also, although being manipulated, I believe the moment you feel something is wrong and or you have doubts, and you continue doing what feels wrong then you are accountable because you chose to ignore your instincts. At that point your standing in the religion is what you chose over anything else.

I think it would depend to what degree the person is aware of why truth matters. As well as their incidental exposure to high quality (heavily vetted) alternative thought. If they are not familiar with the philosophical implications of falsehood, they are more easily absolved of in-curiosity. The same goes for lack of information exposure (youth and shelteredness). But if they understand what the value of truth is, and have been exposed to in-depth and relevant science (for example). Their continued self deception is intractable and likely points to a personality disorder that is either insoluble or expensively soluble.

Lloyd - have you heard of the Germany KH shootings? Apparently reports suggest an ex member went mad and did it.

The manual for creating atheists by Peter Bogosian is a must read if you are wanting to leaving a fundamentalist religion. I've woken many people up with the methods in that book.

No kid “chooses” to believe in Santa clause. It just sort of happens because they are raised in that culture with people around them. The child doesn’t sit down and think: so I believe in Santa? No, belief isn’t really a choice in this way. I’m a hard determinist.

Following the Hamburg Mass shooting this title sound suspicious

Breaking news: shooting at Kingdom Hall Hamburg, Germany: at least six dead.

I think it can be very dangerous to categorize everyone the same way and personally I think the us vs them mentality can be extremely damaging, and a lack of any kind of empathy towards those who are currently being emotionally blackmailed could push away those who actually do need help breaking free of this cult. I think you have the right stance on this personally by attacking the draconian logic of the Governing Body.

Remember Vader threw the emperor into the power generator thus turning himself into anakin Skywalker

This reminds me of Solzhenitsyn. In no way is this comparable in magnitude to the barbarisms of the gulag, but the principle is still visible. The line between good and evil runs through the heart of every man. He could have easily, and was in his absolute right, to blame everything on stalin, but he was aiming higher than that

Some people follow orders out of fear of being different or ostracised and some people do so out of genuinely believing it's the right thing. Either way, they are being controlled, and what is controlling them should highly be held accountable.

good morning Lloyd, I wonder if you have heard about the shootout in a KingdomHall in Hamburg. Dreadfull affair . also wondering what the reactions of the GB will be.

Holy shit, what's with the Germany shooting at a hall???

Kingdom Hall shooting in Hamburg Germany 7 dead!!! Breaking News!

How faith pull people away from their humanity is truely abhorrent . I have friends who spent time in jail because of a machiavélique plot to keep a family them away from a daughter gobbled up by JWs . Lloyd , I believe you know the case of this family ( circus school , Blue Mountains , Katoomba ) . My anger towards these people is ever present . The cruelty these people have shown make it impossible to show consideration to the fact that some people are endoctrinâtes . They are also amoral to say the list .I can pity them and have the greatest disdain for them at the same time .

John viney , couldn't shun his daughters .

Because I confessed my sin to those jw sinful elders they are now treating me like a skpet goat, calling me a bad associate

With jws personal choice comes with a big cost

Danny brings up interesting points. I think it is a very complex issue. How much ownership do individual Jehovah's Witnesses have over the own lives and what to what extent have their critical thinking abilities and decision-making capabilities been highjacked by the Watchtower Society? I think it's an issue that deserves some nuance.

I agree they make a choice but most are brainwashed. In my opinion they choose to not have the guts to show love to DFd friends & family but they are under duress. The threat of losing everything. My JW grandmother risked all by staying in touch with me after I was DFd. My mother, aunt & uncle chose to shun me. My mother was an abusive person by nature so she added cruelty. Ultimately I guess it's a choice (the religion or your loved one) but I think they don't feel like they have a choice because the consequences of not toeing the line are great.

Unfortunately choice doesn't exist. Casual Determinism is the law of the Universe.

I understand this guys position, but at the same time, the fact remains, you can only make decisions on what your mind knows. Therefore, their decision-making ability has been high-jacked.

Спасибо тебе за твой труд. Я хочу попросить тебя поднять тему о том, как гуру американские вбивают в голову своим адептам, что не надо иметь детей. У меня есть несколько знакомых, им за 50 лет, их дети уже давно взрослые, но они не хотят детей. Говорят, что только в новой системе будут дети. Страдают несостоявшиеся дедушки, страдают, но пока не понимают этого их дети-зомби. Знаю несколько пар, им уже за 40 лет, всю жизнь с журналами пробегали, а детей не хотели. Думали и им говорили, что придёт скоро армагеддон...а сейчас время ушло. Они остались одни. Имущество отписывать некому, разве только братанам в Америке. Об этом надо говорить везде, писать властям. То, что делают эти изверги, непоправимо. Их надо садить за эти садисткие учения, которые противоречат Библии.

I think actions should be judged individually. I understand that some JWs are far more dependent on the organization than others. I think that parents are still responsible for their emotional abuse towards children (shunning, social isolation). I think that we should look at the knowledge of an individual when judging them. For example a person who promotes misinformation but believes it should not be treated the same as those who invented it. I think that we should also consider a persons (lack of) critical thinking ability when judging their actions.

Most ex JWs were totally taken in by the lies and double standards. We were victims, just as JWs are now. We were taught that the doctrines were from God, so if we didnt follow those doctrines, we would be rebelling against God. Having said that, there are certainly some in the org who know its not true, but choose to stay because it fits in well with their life. But they are in the minority.

Lloyd Dad must love his wife so much, that he is willing to sacrifice his child and grandchildren to spend eternity with her. It probably makes sense in his world. He lost his son to the devil, why risk the future in paradise with his faithful family members? It's just sad for everyone involved.

Germany JW dead watch video

Why tell those JW elders all about your personal business? Come on you are adult and know all details of your ups and downs plus if not doing anything against bible morals...none of their business. When I was a JW the elders did crappy things to my pioneering baptized Mom ..all she said is they are not perfect and they do the best they can. Every year she had a party for all elders in the KH. Not one of those elders every invited her or my Dad over. My sister was a special pioneer and she did too. It hurt but she understood she was not in the KH clique plus she had nice self employed business and think some of the sister resented it she managed her time so effectively. She remained a devout JW till she died. These days people need families living by shunning ..it is dividing up their home support base. Keeping JW shunning as rule is destroying not just this cult but people .

If you don't forgive those who shunned you, isn't that shunning too? It possibly depends on why you think they shunned you and why you think they stopped shunning you. But our minds are the only things we have to judge our minds. So it is with others. It's complicated and it's circular. As the football chant goes: "We don't know what we're doing!"

Hold cult followers accountable?? Every single one of you, including Lloyd was a "cult follower" it's not their (or our) fault. What a perfectly stupid question.