Robot all the way . Work flow is real easy, if you want to preheat pull a dummy shot with your drinking vessel and you knock out two birds with one stone. Feels solid and looks great. Pulled shots very casually without being so scientific about it and was always pleased! Def would Recommend.

The internet was incomplete before this.

Your videos are clear and concise. As a barista in training and coffee enthusiast who needs to choose wisely where I spend my money this info is precious. Thank you very much!

@AlternativeBrewing

Жыл бұрын

I appreciate that!

great recipe/profile for robot: i input 18g fresh dark roast beans , ground fine enough(till the robot hands don't have too much resistance,which is great feedback) for espresso, i use [1:2.2] ratio , means i expect 40g espresso out of 18g beans, so i tamp , and add water , for dark roast(from full city to italian roast) it doesn't need any temperature management , only boiling temp water, then i do pre-infusion of 2 bar pressure , till i see some drops,that are not only from the outside ring of the cake,but from the middle too, probably couple of seconds , not too long , then i do 70% of the extraction at 7-9 bars gradual pressure, usually 8, than in the last 10g i lower to 6-4 bars gradual pressure, so 5% 2 bar , then 70% 8 bars , then 25% at 4 bars... it produces a lot less channeling then automatic machine that do straight 9 bars from start to end, turns out pretty good , must use scale & timer for this , like acaia lunar or similar

Well done, clearly explained, good work! One thing about locking in the Robot's portafilter: It is recommended to turn it to thr righthand side, because only then you lock it fully in. When turning it to the lefthand side, you will miss one of the contact point where the PF rests inside the main body.

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

Good point! Great tip thanks

Amazing review and comparison sir. Thank you!

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

My pleasure!

I was considering both option but I love the workflow of the robot and ease of cleaning which suits me personally better. I would love try the flair for the taste comparison if budget allow or a friend would have it in the near future

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

Good choice!

I have both and I much prefer the cafelat robot. The workflow is less! I hate the way the flair goes together it is much more fiddly and the preheat is absolutely required on the flair there is a possibility of a leak and accident on the flair that doesn't exist on the robot. I do have a workflow to preheat the Robot but not necessary. I have three daily drivers with the robot in first position. I also have a super automatic and Clever dripper immersion system. I also have a la Pavoni and several espresso machines that almost never get used anymore I would agree with your assessment the flair is easier to travel with but my Robot gets wrapped in a towel and goes in my suitcase along with a hand grinder. I use to Carry in my backpack but TSA is arbitrary and I have had problems. never rejected but additional screening. Thank you for the comparison and the video

So I’ve noticed amazing results when I do a couple of things to my flair pro 2. -distributing my grind -allow for blooming after pouring water into the chamber right before applying pressure

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing!

@Ma_Ba

3 жыл бұрын

Like a pre-infusion phase that machines have! Yay.

very thorough, great job.

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

Much appreciated!

Yep. I chose right - robot. Loving it so far.

@DarkEnigma1115

3 жыл бұрын

I chose the flair simply because it's easier to fit a scale under it.

Wow! This review is great!!

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it

The comparison we all needed! I I had to choose I would go with the Flair.

@RockstarRemodel

3 жыл бұрын

I got the flair a month ago and it is just phenomenal.

Very cool espresso machines, fun and informative, superbly done, thank you

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

Many thanks!

Great video. I've been going down a research rabbit hole on espresso machines to replace my crappy Breville which steams ok, but can't make espresso for shit. I've only just discovered the Flair and Robot as options. Your video does a great job explaining the pros and cons of each.

@cameronknowles6267

3 жыл бұрын

Which breville

@dreimer2112

3 жыл бұрын

@@cameronknowles6267 It's an older Duo Temp Pro, with the crappy 51mm grouphead from the Cafe Roma. I think the newer ones with the 54mm group are ok.

@jayh6910

7 ай бұрын

​@@dreimer2112 did you buy one of these in the end?

@dreimer2112

7 ай бұрын

@@jayh6910 In the end I decided I was happy with Aeropress coffee, so I didn't get one. I also take ground coffee to work every day for my Aeropress there, so I would have needed a second grinder for espresso. It just seemed like an unnecessary expense at the time.

@jayh6910

7 ай бұрын

@@dreimer2112 thanks for your reply, I was being curious. That's seems like a nice ritual to get some great espresso at work.

Love the G-Funk music

Excellent presentation and information! Thanks!!! I am curious though...why does the Robot have those “C” style arm ends? Has to be a better way!

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

Great point! I'm not 100% sure but My 3 guesses would be: • Due to being able to grip fingers or thumb in there perhaps • Makes it look more like a Robot 🤖 • You can place the Tamp in the hand of the Robot and it fits quite nicely when not in use.

Flair all day. With correct workflow and technique, it is not that finicky as to what people said in coffee forum.

@user-fc6dk4sz8e

3 жыл бұрын

I would screw up doing the flair when I’m half awake in the morning compared to the robot. IMO

Thanks for the video. It was very helpful. I am thinking of getting a Robot. Do you have any thoughts on whether it is worth the extra outlay for the Barista version? Is it pretty easy to get a good shot by feel alone?

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

After about a week of using it - I would say 9/10 times I'm not looking at the pressure gauge anymore. You'll know if the shot is running fast or slow by the flow of the espresso out the basket. Once you've dialled in to the range of grind sizes appropriate than I find it's just all about maintaining a consistent flow 👌

I've been used Flair Pro 2 for almost 1 year, and it's still amazing like I did for the first time even I use this everyday. Have upgrade the tools by using dt, scale and a wdt. This is a great mechine. Robot has a same price like Flair 58 (almost), and the sparepart that I don't know where to buy in my country. Thats the reason why I choose Pro 2, and I also think it's a fair what I get for Pro2 with that price..

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

Great to hear!

Thanks for the comparison. Already have the Robot, was seriously considering getting the Flair as an extra machine. Now I know when that day comes, it’s going to be another Robot instead. So much easier and less fidgety workflow. So many less parts to lose or mislay. Now, if there only was a place to keep the shower screen... a thicker rubber support with a hole in it perhaps? P.S. I never use the spouts. They look nice but they are not needed and impractical => They don’t get used.

I have the Flair Signature (non pro) and it makes the best coffee I have ever tasted. Also have a Rok and the flair is much better. The Flair is much less picky about grind size but obviously you do get better results with a better grinder. The signature maxes out at 18-19g in and about 40g out but that does always result in excellent coffee. One and only con. It’s a high hassle clean up. Small price to pay for an excellent coffee. I wonder if the pro is worth the upgrade if you already use the stainless steel piston on the signature?

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

the upgrade in the Pro would then add the addition of the Silicone grips to the pressure valve and handle - that's about it. You using bottomless portafilter too?

@murataht

3 жыл бұрын

Alternative Brewing I would add the advantage of the bigger group head: better thermo stability, and more coffee if you desire. Besides heating the group head is easier with the silicon cap. If you want to be more precise, you can add a temperature strip on it, too. Of course, the basket holes must be better as well, which will translate into a better espresso in the cup.

@Crime_Lab

3 жыл бұрын

I just saw that there is an option to buy a second brewing set for the pro. ( to have another shot made right away) But I suppose same could be worked out for the others. Cheers! ⬛️

Good comparison video. I came to the same conclusion you did. Both are pretty good but the Flair ekes out the Robot.

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

@youelad

3 жыл бұрын

What do you mean by ekes?

@jm7720

3 жыл бұрын

That wasn't the conclusion the world came to. the world came to the conclusion the flair is a nasty looking medieval machine that is better suited for a metal shop next to a vice or a man with a small dick as it has a smaller basket.

From the my perspection, robot win.

The robot espresso maker will be great for the home instead for outdoor

Thank you for a great job with this video. I am considering buying a manual espresso maker. Personally I don’t think you can go wrong with either machine. Probably depends how often you brew espresso. At least during the pandemic times it is certainly a great thing to have in our homes.

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

I totally agree!

Have used Robot every day last year and a half. Used Aeropress for probably 15 years before that. The Robot workflow takes exactly the same amount of time/energy the Aeropress did and makes fantastic shots. I got it without the pressure gauge and don't regret it. You get used to what pressure works best pretty quickly. Also @Alternative Brewing, The Robot tamper is shaped like it is because it fits into the robot hands for storage. Travel was a factor in my decision, but ease of use and looks of Robot won me over, and I take the Aeropress when I'm away. Great review.

@trueblueaussie7997

3 жыл бұрын

hi sir. Do you think it would be possible for somebody who is blind to be able to use the robot? I also have an AeroPress and love it to bits, but I would really love to give a manual lever machine ago. Out of all the videos that I have listen to on the Rok GC, Flair, and of course the robot, I always windup back here. of course the gauge is not necessary for me, and I feel that the hands on feel of the machine would suit me well. your opinion would be much appreciated. Enjoy your day, and keep loving the coffee

@collider4378

3 жыл бұрын

@@trueblueaussie7997 Sorry for the late reply. I don't think it would be difficult at all for you to use the Robot, once you get used to the parts. I think compared to the other presses (Flair etc...), the robot is the easiest to use and clean. I'm pretty sure if you can use Aeropress, you can use this.

If you buy the Robot, all your wildest dreams will come true. Robot FTW.

@jhyc

3 жыл бұрын

I agree wholeheartedly

Thank you for the video! Flair it is 😉 Could one use the Fellow Ode grinder for the Flair?

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

thanks for the kind words. No, the Ode will not work for the Flair :(

@Crime_Lab

3 жыл бұрын

@@AlternativeBrewing , thank you! I suppose a mod with some SSP burrs is in my future. Cheers! ⬛️

@SAMUEL-zc2mv

3 жыл бұрын

@@Crime_Lab it isnt about the burr, its about the adjustment step, dialing with Ode will be very hard (imposible). Ode is build for filter brew, as Fellow them self dont recommend it for spro.

@frederickateng3779

2 жыл бұрын

It could But at cost of your ode motor break down Changing to ssp will shorten its life

Loving the vids guys. Thank you. Quick question. I’ve just purchased a Baratza Virtuoso+ for filter coffee (with a Clever Dripper) but want to get into some espresso drinks - possibly with a Flair 58 (when it launches) or a Gaggia Classic Pro. Will it grind well enough for espresso?

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much Iain! Yes it will - but I would say - you'll discover a ceiling of accuracy and repeatability with the Virtuoso.. it's a beefed up Encore and still not a preferable Espresso Grinder although it will grind fine enough to choke an espresso machine. It's limited grind range at those finer settings and build make it more susceptible wear and tear if used predominantly as an Espresso Grinder. You can also place shims under the grinder burrs and this will increase the fineness the burrs are capable of ... best to research how to do this properly. You could get away with using the Virtuoso with espresso until you'd be ready to upgrade 👌

@iainmartin9724

3 жыл бұрын

@@AlternativeBrewing thanks for response. Deeper down the rabbit hole I go 😉

here from the future, oct 2022, the flair pro 2 is 199$ rn on sale

Thank you mastee

@shadopyro

3 жыл бұрын

What is that kettle?

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

No problem!

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

alternativebrewing.com.au/product/brewista-smart-pour-variable-temperature-gooseneck-kettle/

As a Flair Pro user I admit the standard 58mm filter basket on the Robot was a better design decision, if you could swap it for say a standard VST filter, but you can't, so that point is moot. The portability, added mass of the group and hence consistency of brewing temperatures, plus personal esthetic reasons and price would make me buy the Flair again. I can pull nearly identical and very satisfying shots from the Flair. Get the Flair Pro 2 for better filter (also works with the Flair Pro) but I like the older shower screen more. The user flow is simpler with the Robot, though.

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

Smart point about the VST baskets - that would make for a very enticing option

Thanks for the video, just what I was looking for. I just have one question.... which one of them requires more strength to get to the 9 bar mark? Thanks again.

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

In my experience, the Robot does significantly more

@boira31b60

3 жыл бұрын

@@AlternativeBrewing Thanks!!

@ericpmoss

3 жыл бұрын

The Robot needs the 'donuts' to make the handles comfortable to use at that pressure -- otherwise the Robot's 'hands' dig into my palms. That said, I found I do almost all my shots at an easy to achieve 7bar, and they are amazingly thick and yummy.

It kind of pisses me off that everyone has niche on youtube and we cant get it been waiting for a while for one lol

@ErrolMortland

3 жыл бұрын

Cool. Thought it was only me.

@SuperJeggo

3 жыл бұрын

@@ErrolMortlandmy initial plan was a niche zero with a rancilio with pid control but I couldnt wait and ended up buying a breville barista pro

Aren't the circular ends of the Cafelat Robot Baristas lever arms meant to contain a grip/handle? Would it then be easier to use? 🤔

@AlternativeBrewing

2 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure if it's easier to use - I've never used these: alternativebrewing.com.au/products/cafelat-robot-hands But they do add some weight to the handles to - so might assist in pulling the levers down as well 👍

you can buy a double spout for the flair

@ArbathSahadewa

3 жыл бұрын

Really? Where i can buy that?

@god8347

3 жыл бұрын

Asahadewa official site

@Assenayo

3 жыл бұрын

@@ArbathSahadewa it's for sale on Alternative Brewing. It clips onto the a detachable spout of the pro. You can also get a thermal sticker to measure the heat of the brew chamber.

This brought up a question -- the robot's papers are a standard size (58mm). Why is the AeroPress 63mm? It seems like it makes it harder to develop much pressure, and prevents sharing tools with an espresso maker.

@r_bear

3 жыл бұрын

The aeropress isn't meant to make-and can't actually make-espresso, so there's no real reason to expect that the diameter should somehow match up with the portafilter size that's common in espresso

@Ma_Ba

3 жыл бұрын

@Alternative Brewing Espro makes a round filter that I would research to see the diameter of as a possible choice, but Cafelat Robot has papers to order online too.

@anderss5913

3 жыл бұрын

arbear is correct. Aeropress is a coffee-maker, not an espresso maker. It's not designed to generate much pressure. In fact, as James Hoffman has demonstrated, too much pressure (even from your hands) can create a poor Aeropress coffee. A nice, gentle press is a better way with the Aeropress which is also what the creator recommends. Even though they work similarly, Aeropress and Manual espresso makers are designed for two totally different things which is why they don't match up.

I consider one of them some say Flair does better shots of espressos however the Robot has more dense Espresso more suitable for when you add milk etc, Do they produce real good espressos compared with Espressos machines that cost around 1000 US / considering as well the V3 Elisabeth Lelit however I like the simplicity, not many technical issues particular with the Robot and most important you don't have to wait for heat-up times. For milk foam, I use at the moment a manual unit which can produce foam with hot or cold milk within 20 seconds. A bit in the middle Manual espresso or Lelit Elisabeth?

@AlternativeBrewing

Жыл бұрын

Lelit Elisabeth a;; day, if you're not looking for portability

I have a Baratza Virtuoso+ at the moment as a grinder; do you think that's good enough for the Robot?

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, it would be okay - not superb as it is still more attuned to Filter Grinding but it will do just fine. Try grinding on the finest setting, you may just need to extract shots at a lower pressure than 9 bars, but you'll be surprised at how tasty these can be 👍

@dorksama

3 жыл бұрын

@@AlternativeBrewing thanks! I'm debating these 2 as an xmas gift to me. I don't think I can afford an automatic machine and only make 1 or 2 cups a day so these seemed best. Would you suggest the Flair then?

Flair: Portable and comfortable to operate. Robot: easier to use and easier to clean. I will take the Robot thank you very much.

@AlternativeBrewing

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing

Can you trust a source that says "expresso"? ;)

I’m very happy with my Robot. That’s all.

I want to know how does it compare with Leverpresso? I know that leverpresso is not the same level as Pro 2 and Robot.

@AlternativeBrewing

2 жыл бұрын

For portability - the Leverpresso wins hands down. The Shot of coffee from these two machines vs the Leverpresso; a great Leverpresso brew s a little harder to achieve - but any coffee made on it - in a scenario where you're far from anywhere and brewing coffee using a Leverpresso - it's going to be great coffee. Anywhere else - where you may have electricity - space etc - I'd go other options.

What if you want a LONG shot of espresso from the robot - is there a way to add more water to the filter basket in order to achieve that? Also, does the robot come with a standard group head for a standard portafilter that you find on electric espresso machines?

@AlternativeBrewing

Жыл бұрын

No and no unfortunately - I would perhaps start with some water in the cup for a longer shot of espresso, or aim for a shlong - it's a short long black. The volume is the volume for most of these Lever machines. And the only machine to come out with a 58mm Basket is the Flair 58 - everything else is it's own proprietary size

@jakobw135

Жыл бұрын

@@AlternativeBrewing If you want to pull a LONGer shot, can you STOP at the end of the 1st extraction, fill up the brew cup with some more HOT WATER, and then RE-PLUNGE the same grind?

Does Flair Neo have the issue where the ports filter and chamber separate? Thanks

@AlternativeBrewing

2 жыл бұрын

No NOt as much - this happens under a lot of pressure - where the Neo is a set pressure 👍

@Syd7088

2 жыл бұрын

@@AlternativeBrewing thanks!

Whats the scale you used that fits the base of flair? thank you

@AlternativeBrewing

2 жыл бұрын

HI there, - it was the Acaia Lunar Scale 👌 alternativebrewing.com.au/products/acaia-lunar-scales

@imthatjayson

2 жыл бұрын

@@AlternativeBrewing thanks!

Are the supposed aromatic compounds, (ODOURS), associated with the SILICONE SEALS problematic w.r.t. them LEACHING into your brew?

@AlternativeBrewing

Жыл бұрын

I haven't found this to be the case ever no

This video did not help me decide. I want both.

@jm7720

3 жыл бұрын

i want neither. I want a $5000 machine for $50 lol

I heard that Flair is in the process of creating a new model that requires no pre-heating, does anyone know if that's true?

@Rainyfeels

3 жыл бұрын

Where did you read that? :)

@ToranSharma

3 жыл бұрын

It is out now

@ThatsmeChristian

2 жыл бұрын

It’s called Flair 58

I was really interested in seeing just how much physical exertion these require to operate as I’ve seen some videos on YT of the Flair and the user is literally using their entire body weight to pull the shot. Good comparison nonetheless.

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

yeah - I would lend my whole weight to a 9 bar shot easily if I wanted to extract it in under 35 - 40 seconds, it's not uncomfortable but I'm 5'10 and can easily get the leverage. - I usually go for around 50+ seconds and a lot less pushing on the lever.. but both manufacturers suggest using around 7 - 8 bars of pressure for extraction with the units anyway - it can make better coffee and is far easier to achieve these pressures 👌

@alexandraengland3274

3 жыл бұрын

I know this is months late, but I am 5 foot 2 and I do lean on the thing, but it's not uncomfortable, and I haven't struggled for leverage, even at my height. No crazy muscles required.

Single shot or double shot ?

@AlternativeBrewing

2 жыл бұрын

I would say a Double Shot

Noticed flair now sells double spout attachment. Looks kinda flimsy in their pictures, but nice that it's offered. Now if only they make a distribution tool and i'll be complete

@conefcol000

3 жыл бұрын

I bought my distribution tool from Ipok Tala, highly recommend it!

@MikeFLHT

3 жыл бұрын

@@conefcol000 I just purchased mine from him (tamper and distributor) and I'm waiting for them to be built. The photos he sent are fantastic!

@conefcol000

3 жыл бұрын

@@MikeFLHT he gave me a sneak peek at some future goodies, he's a really great guy! Love supporting someone so passionate about creating a phenomenal product.

@MikeFLHT

3 жыл бұрын

@@conefcol000 agreed!

@thefuturetom

3 жыл бұрын

@@conefcol000 oh is it actually being sold now? Last time I looked it was preorder only or demand was too high or something. Thanks for suggesting.

can pre-ground coffee be used for these?

@jm7720

3 жыл бұрын

dont think so as its gears toward a finer grind but hey give it a whirl

@azharborhan5406

3 жыл бұрын

Buy flair neo. It comes with pressurized portafilter. Cheaper too

@ChristineSK

3 жыл бұрын

You can get the pressurized portafilter for the Robot, or you can get the Flair Neo which default comes with the pressurized one. For me I enjoyed the workflow of the Robot a bit more (not necessary to preheat) and it is studier than the Neo but it's also more expensive.

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

Flair NEO for pre-ground Coffee- or yes the Robot with a pressurised basket 👌 these tworequiree a fine fine grind

Did he say 16g minimum for the Flair? Does that mean I can't get a single shot of espresso? /:

@AlternativeBrewing

3 жыл бұрын

correct. Under 16g and you won't be able to achieve a full tamp. The basket is tapered so you cannot get the tamp to go down all the way.

@rbmanb

3 жыл бұрын

@@AlternativeBrewing I guess I'll go with the classic Signature model then.

@rbmanb

3 жыл бұрын

@@AlternativeBrewing I wonder if the 58 model is going to be any different. Can just install a 7 gram basket to it, right?

Both great espresso makers, but for me the smoother work flow of the Robot wins out. No need to preheat the basket when using medium/dark roast coffee and less clean up. I only use mine at home so portability wasn’t a consideration.

@xrypro4080

3 жыл бұрын

But flair is 200$ cheaper tho... 200$ to skip 1 workflow is not worth imho. Might as well get Gaggia Classic pro. You will get additional milk frother too. Also, you need more “power” to pull espresso with Robot. Not only that, you need really good grinder for that. Niche Zero comes to mind (another 600$ to burn) . With flair, you can use Commandante / Kinu /Jx-pro grinder at more affordable price. So flair all day to me.

@ghas4151

3 жыл бұрын

Xry Pro I got mine for £370 inc. tax and duties in the UK so around £70 more in my case. As well as the quicker work flow, I just preferred the aesthetics and build quality (my mate has the flair) with less seals. Also preferred the fact that it came with a more standard size basket. I would’ve been happy with the Flair, but the Robot just edged it for me.

@idjekyll

3 жыл бұрын

@@xrypro4080 robot works just fine with the grinders you mentioned. A huge number of robot owners uses those all day.

@xrypro4080

3 жыл бұрын

Gamal Saleh fair enough. 70£ not that much. But in my case, it cost 200$ more (at Malaysia), and it hindered me from getting the Robot. At the end of the day, good shot of coffee is what matters most. Have a nice day!

@xrypro4080

3 жыл бұрын

Khaleed _ it works, for sure. But you need to grind it super fine, like really really fine (Cafe standard). The amount of work to grind manually everyday not worth the hassle. That’s why I think electric grinder like Niche Zero (or at least Euroka Specialta) is the most compatible grinder to Cafelat Robot. Flair in the other hand is just so forgiving. You don’t have to grind it as fine as the normal espresso grind. With proper hand grinder, it is effortless and does not feel like a workout. Thus, making it more compatible to Flair. P/s: I dont own Cafelat Robot. But I do own flair (temporary espresso machine) and old Rancilio Silvia (under service). I assume Robot would need the same grind size to Silvia (58mm portafilter).

if you travel: flair, else: robot

@jm7720

3 жыл бұрын

If you travel you can take the robot its small though i dont see anyone lugging either of this shit around. You just got to a coffee store if you are traveling.

@ChristineSK

3 жыл бұрын

@@jm7720 Yeah, just go visit some local cafes and enjoy their espresso.

Did you do a review on the La Pavoni Europiccola? these "add hot water and fiddle" gadgets are just ridiculous. get an Aeropress!

Rok presso is a lot better and simple, not too many pieces just porta filter like actual coffee machine, I've been using it for 1 year

omg this skinny man talk like machen . i need paracetamol

@AlternativeBrewing

2 жыл бұрын

😂