Bump Steer, Flex Steer, Scrub Radius EXPLAINED! - Jeep TJ Stretch Episode 3
Автокөліктер мен көлік құралдары
Back to 4x4 school! Let's look at the basics of suspension on a real 4x4 instead of a whiteboard. Bump steer is a super common and misunderstood problem. I wanted to use this video to as a way to explain it to someone who is new to working on 4x4s. Flex steer and scrub radius are both pretty much never talked about mainstream and think these are extremely important elements as well. Thank you Ballistic fabrication for sponsoring this series! These videos are way harder without the help of great sponsors.
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Due to factors out of the control of Dirt Lifestyle, we cannot guarantee against improper use or unauthorized modifications of this information. Dirt Lifestyle assumes no liability or responsibility for property damages or injury incurred as a result of any information contained in this video. Use this information at your own risk. Dirt Lifestyle recommends safe practices when working on vehicles and/or with tools seen in this video. Any injury, damage, or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or from the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not Dirt Lifestyle. Be safe!
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#bumpsteer #4x4 #deathwobble
Пікірлер: 252
You have got to be by far the best 4x4 builder on KZread. Nobody explains in detail that everyone can understand the way you do. You have already answered many questions I have had over the years and the channel is just getting started! Keep up the good work man!
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Wow man this is a big compliment! I really appreciate the kind words! Lots more videos on the way! 🤘
Glad you mentioned scrub radius. No one ever talks about it. Great video series.
You're very articulate in the way you explain everything. I don't know sh!t about most of what you say, but by the end of your video I feel like I understand it more clearly. Not an off road guy, but I love your channel.
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Wow man, thank you for the huge compliment. I'm honored to have good folks like yourself watching my videos. Lots more on the way 🤘
Like the channel. My little tip. I use PVC to simulate control arms. Warm the PVC with propane torch push the bung in and hose clamp. Let's me cycle and check for anything unplanned for. And let's me really check link angles. Keep it up
Great video and a great hands on explanation of how this stuff works. I think more details on roll steer/flex steer would be useful because it's usually overlooked and really important. The visualization you gave when the rear axle articulates is awesome because it shows where the suspension roll axis is. In your case it's above the rear axle, so you can see the bottom of the axle "swing" left to right as it rotates. The roll axis is from the instant center of the two lower links, to the instant center of the two upper links. In other words, its a line from where the lower links converge to a point, to where the two upper links converge to a point. The point where the roll axis is directly above the center of the rear wheels is the roll center, and the angle of the roll axis is what determines roll steer. If the roll axis is sloped up towards the front of the vehicle, the axle will steer away from body roll. If the roll axis is sloped down towards the front of the vehicle, the axle will steer into body roll. If the roll axis is flat, then body roll won't affect the angle of the axle and it won't roll steer at all. This doesn't really matter much until the vehicle is going fast enough for the roll steer angles to have an effect, but at highway speeds it can be dangerous if its wrong. If the front axle steers into a turn, and the rear axle steers away, body roll will make the vehicle turn more, which will cause even more body roll and more roll steer. This is called roll oversteer and it can go bad really quickly, especially with soft springs/sway bars. The opposite of roll oversteer is roll understeer where the front axle steers away from a turn, and the rear axle steers into it. Roll understeer is much safer because body roll and roll steer are self stabilizing, but if taken to extremes it still makes handling unpredictable. Generally, 4 link suspensions should be built with as close to zero roll steer as possible without having any roll oversteer unless its used exclusively for slow speeds. Hope this helps somebody with their build! Thanks for the awesome video.
Dude finally a informative hands on explanation. My xj has all of the above shimmy and I’ve had trouble narrowing the “issue”. Mind blown *poof*. Glad to see you on your own!
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks brother! Very happy to help!
First time watcher. Well done on that rear diff. What a Fort Knox build. 👍👍
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Lol thanks! Glad you stumbled across our channel
NOT AN OFFROAD GUY. BUT STILL WATCHES YOU. WOW AND I FEEL SMARTER TOO !! LOL .. WASH STATE RULES !!!
@DirtLifestyle
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
Congrats on your own channel thanks for all the info and looking forward to more. And I have always looked for your rig when you were on the trails with your previous endeavors
This is my absolute favorite episode in the playlist so far! Thanks for demonstrating everything!
Dude that was awesome!!! I never understood until now why a linked suspension was desirable!!! Thank you
Thank you for taking the time to dumb it down for knuckle heads like me. I’m glad I found your videos. Keep up the great work. Love your j truck.
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Lol no problem. Thank you!
Brilliant. Love the way you explain things. And how you take different rigs and build purposes and stages into account. Thanks Nate
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you! Very happy to hear you enjoyed the video!
Man I've been browsing forums for YEARS getting ideas for how I wanna build my ranger, and I've never understood a lot of the terms you showed. Ik really glad you explained it and showed it on vehicle as well. Props man!
Awesome series of videos man, love how in-depth and well explained everything is, from one builder to another you are a true craftsman!
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you! I really appreciate the huge compliment. 🤘
Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! for including the scrub radius detail!! I have seen so many of my fellow XJ'ers not understand the concept and think 12.5" width tires on rims that the inside is out past the fender and believe it is the superior setup, but yet can't understand why every wheel bearing is crap when it's really their setup that is crap and would barely last a town parade and forget it if they hit a pothole.
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Lol no prob man! I think scrub radius is very important! Way too many people don't use this as a consideration for their build. Thanks for watching brother 🤘
Very well explained Nate ! Thank you for sharing . Loving your channel . Keep up the great work . Until next time take care .
What a great job of explaining these links 👏 lots people don't understand why their jeep don't "flex" like it "should" great job nate
Man that is knowkedge. I appreciate all your videos because you explain in a way that is understandable.
I love where this channel is headed. Great topics and content. I find many videos of this nature are high-leveled and breeze through details so keep it technical and keep it up.
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
I saw some of your stuff on Bleepin Jeep and was impressed. I found today that you have your own channel now. Good for you! I really like your pace, conciseness and how you explain things. You're my new favorite shop teacher.
@DirtLifestyle
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you! I'm glad you found me!
Awesome channel! Much needed content. Great subject choice for this video and great explanation style. Keep it up.
“fresh and so clean clean” Thank you for breaking down These parts and how to set up your suspension
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
No problem buddy 🤘 thanks for watching!
Absolutely the best info I've ever seen. I have a ZJ with a Rough Country 4" long arm setup. The bump steer is terrible. I've always thought raising the axle end of the panhard bar would get rid of that. You confirmed that. Thanks for the great information.
@DirtLifestyle
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks man! I'm glad you found this info helpful 👍
Excellent video. Looking forward to more TJ goodness
Awesome info I'm a novice in the language of suspension (familiar with everything in theory but no fabrication experience), so nice to have a channel that explains things so well
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks man! Glad your enjoying the content 🤘
Great description of key elements, Nate. Awesome work.
Hey brother, outstanding commentary on the subject of scrub radius and related topics. Your videos are top notch and extremely informative, a very no-nonsense approach that I appreciate.
@DirtLifestyle
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks buddy 👍I appreciate it
Awesome explanation nate! I don't know much about suspension geometry, but this definitely explains a hell of a lot 😎 - Keep em coming!
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks man! I'm happy to help!
It's amazing how you explain everything. Wish I had a friend with your skills. Literally about to do a SAS on my truck and could use a guy like you.
Thank you for the content and time to run through it. We are always looking at suspension info. This covered a lot. So next week I cant wait for u to cover putting on power steering on a CJ 5 with manual. Haha
first off thank you for taking the time to explain this stuff. I have two samurai's that I want to set up for 4 links' the reason I have not is I don't understand it completely . your videos and the way you explain it for the regular joe, such as myself helps me a great deal. one truck will be mostly on road. the other primarily off road. I may have to watch your video a few more times to let it fully sink in, but I feel i'll be able to do a proper and safe job.so, thank you again for sharing your knowledge with us. I feel its my job to help others understand if I can so we can all have fun, but most of all ,be safe while we do it.
@DirtLifestyle
4 жыл бұрын
Awesome man I'm happy to help! I daily drove a sammy for awhile. I'd still like to build a sammy one day 🤘
This is what I'm trying to figure out right now this video has helped alot thank you for touching on this and I would love to see more of this kinda stuff keep it up
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks man!
That was a great scrub radius explanation! Thank you!
Absolutely great. Great information and showing what it is and what happens. Very understandable.
@DirtLifestyle
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed the video👍
It's nice the way you explain and show visually with springs removed.
@DirtLifestyle
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Thanks for everything you do for us, and by the way you're the man on this stuff.
If someone hasn't mentioned it...it's the drag link (not tie rod) and panhard (track) bar. Great video, thank you!!
Thanks again for a great vid Nate. You are killing it!
@DirtLifestyle
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Scrub radius deserves more consideration than it gets when choosing wheels, suspension, and axles. This is why manufacturers start with the wheel and tire combination first when designing a vehicle
Great video Nate. Have been think about linking my front axle! Important stuff to think about!
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks! I hope it can help steer you in the right direction 🤘
New sub, thanks for the content. I found your video interesting and informative. You gave a very logical easy to understand explanation of the topic. I look forward to seeing more from your channel.
When General Motors and Ford has questions about the correct steering geometry for their new trucks: "Just call Nate, he'll walk you through it".
Yet another entertaining and super informative video! Doing awesome man
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Killer edit guy, loving the new channel
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks man! I'm glad your digging the content 🤘
your videos have been getting better and better!
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks brother 🤘
Scrub radius! I never knew that one. Cool man... I'm doing a 1 ton swap soon and I'll def keep that in mind. Thanks!
The bit with front uppers being 70 % shorter and better handling throughout the suspension cycle is more to do with caster changes more than pinion angle, albeit being a solid axle front they are both affected with equal length uppers and lowers.. Great video by the way. Subscribed for future videos.
This guys awesome, I learn so much every time he goes right into depth. Helps me in making choices for my F250. That’s the nice thing about straight axle rigs... all the Jeeps guys have already done it. Lol
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks buddy! This is great to hear, my goal is to make videos for anybody that likes to go off road 🤘
Learning alot from your videos keep it up! Thank you for the great content!
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Great! Thanks for watching!
I been watching your vids. A lot lately, though my future project is not a jeep. But a chevy S10 crewcab, the information that I'm getting from your vids will surely have a big impact on my building of my project truck.
@DirtLifestyle
4 жыл бұрын
Awesome! Glad your enjoying the videos! I love built s10s especially a crew cab. Maybe I'll build one of those one day too 👍
Bumpsteer... didn't know they had a name for that but I definitely felt it before!
Always enjoy your content keep up the good work
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
You got a nice shop dude!
Awesome vid Nate
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Great videos , you explain everything very well
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thank man! Glad you are digging my content! Lots more on the way!
Keep up the good videos
Thanks for the videos.
Dude these videos are great I wish I saw them when I was building my Jeep
@DirtLifestyle
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks brother!
Good stuff!! Awesome skid build btw
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Clean vids, nice straight forward presentations without a bunch of ear beating. Ballistic is top notch and always willing to help out. One question, do you plug weld your bungs? If not have you ever had one pull out? We make all of our links, pan hards, and steering links from semi truck tie rods. We use 1" heims. Plug weld the bungs (as well as at the end of the link). They hold up pretty well for the $$. Def not as tough as the DOM you used. Thanks for sharing. Be safe
I just found your channel and I must say I watch a lot of KZread I'm absolutely sure you have one of the best fabrication and offered channels on KZreadI understand you have a full-time job but I'll bet if you put more videos out you could make a living off of this
@DirtLifestyle
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot man I really appreciate it! I'm actually planning on doing this full time very soon 👊
@kodipauley4076
4 жыл бұрын
@@DirtLifestyle for real I enjoy seeing fabrication along with everything else most people are either fabricators or parts changers but most people can't do both or maybe the ones that can do it just suck at making KZread videos lol
Great video. The info is very usefull. In Denmark your 4x4 is modifed, if you drive on All terrain tires. Just a little Hallo from Denmark. 💪🤓👍
Dude this is some seriously good information
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed the video brother 🤘
You're awesome man, great video explanations.
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Great vid. 👍
Looks like you need to fab some new body mounts.😁 Wow the first time I've heard ANYONE talk about scrub radius outside racecars. New to your channel and reality liking it. 👍
Excellent video Nate! Learned a lot from this series. 👊🤘 #TJFTW
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Super vid !!!
Nice videos man love it! Can we see a vid dedicated to suspension ?
Hey Nate, love your content man. Have you done anything that explains how link length, horizontal, and vertical separation affect handling characteristics?
Outstanding video series. Gave you a thumbs up. At the time of this video there were 18 men with small pee pee's that gave thumbs down, whatever. Keep it going!
@DirtLifestyle
4 жыл бұрын
Lol thanks brother 👊
With track bar mounting points at the same most of the lateral movement can be eliminated. My dislike for funking steering problems takes me back as my 68 Firebird was equipped with their factory installed bump right or left and under or over mystery steering options available in the 60's. I'll be back to watch you work. Peace.
We have a major issue with our suspension. Just replaced stock axel with the Currie 44 and when I hit the gas it slow pulls to the right hard, and when I let go it lets the wheel go back to the left. Never seen this before but it sounds like what your talking about at the six min mark. Hoping a new draglink and adjusting the trackbar will help. Great video!
Ten years is like a lifetime for you! I've seen you wheel. LOL
@DirtLifestyle
4 жыл бұрын
Lol
I just tryed to search for bleepinjeepnate and couldn't find ya been watching allot of your videos on the BJ channel glad I found your new channel cant wait to watch it grow into a monster I know it will I watched the BJ channel just for your fab videos
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you man! Glad you found my new channel!
The heim joint on your tie rod looked maxed out when you dropped the axel
6:10 Think you mean drag link needs to be same length as track bar. Good video. I hate the wheels that came with my wife's new ZJ because they stick out so far and makes it hard to turn.
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
This mistake kills me lol. I didn't catch it until the video had already been live. Thanks for watching man
Great video, your explanation of the suspension components and types was very helpful, thanks Nate, cleared some areas I was not fully understanding.
@DirtLifestyle
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you! I'm happy to help 👍
Nice video Nate. I saw you when I was at a gas station on Idaho (think it was Idaho) on my way to Moab. But, I was too tired from doing field repairs on my YJ steering and you were on a mission, I could tell. I liked your Ram truck and trailer. One of these days, a video on your tow rig would be cool. I liked your video on how you do your trail tool bags. I'm in Mukilteo. So, if you can name drop some trails that are good for a novice like me. That would be much appreciated, obviously not as a main focus, but in passing I guess; that would be cool. I checked out that one off-road area you mentioned on highway 2, on Google maps, seems cool. Bad ass channel. Keep it up man.
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Small world man! Tahuya is good place to start wheeling. Wide trails and lots of mud! Then you can work your way up to Evan's creek and elbe hills. Walker valley is a good one as well 👍
@tylerlentz9448
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Nate.
Scrub radius pretty much goes out the window with big tire.. not talking about 33s or 35s.. rumming tires like 42, 44s, and bigger.. you can't run an 8" wide wheel with a 44x18's.. so your wheel selection gets smaller.. you'll also not be able to run a 6" BS or a +44mm offset unless you run a full with axle and basically no fenders on something like a samurai...just noting these things... nice channel
Maginary lines save lives!
Great video buddy! Can you share info. where you got the joints, I like them very much. Thanks!
Oh you have a channel not just uploading to pleep and jeep😱 what was i thinking not to found this channel
I was totally impressed till I saw you using A36 hot rolled steel, I would use Chormoly plate 0.19 and A574 alloy screws either flat head or low profile socket screws with A574 self locking nuts, besides that and the welding very good video
Awesome info man! Wow. I have a lot of digging to to. Thanks for the link info to. I’ll start buying those ballistic joints ASAP. Defiantly will be saving this video for future reference as well. Also that anti rock setup off your front axle. What does that do? Is that needed? Thanks man!
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Happy to help! The antirock is not a must for everyone but It really helps stability and traction if you combine it with a rear sway bar. I should do a video 🤘
@stcfabworx1687
5 жыл бұрын
Ok. So if I drive my Jeep daily and wheel it maybe a good idea to get one as well? And your tj is looking sick with those 2” links man. Very nice
Have you thought about upgrading your panhard bar to a watts link system?
Good series... I'm a Yota guy but it's all relative. Looks good.
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks man! I've always liked Toyota's as well. I'm currently looking around for the right one to add to the channel. 🤘
@Shamrockjason
5 жыл бұрын
@@DirtLifestyle well if you could find one reasonably cheap and factory locked I would recommend in lc80 they're perfect for the trail and expedition there's a lot of aftermarket support for them as well still and if you were to do a diesel swap you would be in love trust me on that. Or you could always remove the ifs and straight axle Tacoma!!
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
You pretty much read my mind lol
Love to bring my 2001 TJ to your shop so you could build it up for me with all my aftermarket custom parts
I wish the diesel crowd understood scrub radius with those hideous wheels everyone wants a 35x12.50 stretched on a 22x14 wheel with 1 inch backspacing and 3 inch wheel spacers. Also i really enjoyed your builds before and im glad you have your own channel. I know its a lot of work, but i like you are interacting with comments. Obviously as the channel grows it will be impossible. Also my YJ has leaf springs. Get on my level. Lol
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Yeah scrub radius is a concept that alot if car guys don't work into there builds but it effects all of us! Whether it's a miata or a monster truck, it's a huge factor! I'm trying to keep up with the comments lol. I'm answering like 100 questions a day between KZread and social media! Thanks for watching 🤘
I could use a good video for coilover conversion on a tj /lj if you get a chance
Another great video. I’m learning a lot. I just need you to come teach me the ways lol 😂
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Lol thanks buddy 🤘 you live so damn far away!
@TheBeardedJeeper
5 жыл бұрын
Dirt Lifestyle I know lol one of these days I have to get out there and wheel on the west coast
Hey Nate can you please give us some info on how you built your hydro assist steering please ?
Awesome vid glad to see your doing your own thing on the links did you use dom or hrew pipe? Asking because im in the middle of my 1 ton build
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
I use DOM on suspension but not really on anything else. 🤘
So when you talk about the different length links do you actually mean different mounting points or the actual lenth of the links ? Im am talking about the rear four link also.
I think you mean your panhard bar in relation to your drag link. Not tie rod which ties one wheel to the other. You will never 100% get rid of flex steer due to axle swing from articulation and scrub radius can give you a excellent traction Advantage when crawling and causes no more effort with Hydro steering.
Great info. Is scrub radius and castor the same? And with 0 scrub how will my daily driver perform?
I believe what you meant by length of track rod needs to be as close as possible to the drag link length not the tie rod.
You want pinion angle to stay parallel to the output shaft due to the driveshaft cogging. Look for the Spicer video on the subject.
@DirtLifestyle
5 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately this is untrue for most offroad vehicles. Most offroad vehicles use a c/v joint on the transfercase side of the driveshaft. For anyone who is confused by this guy's comment please check out this reference. Its from a driveshaft manufacture called Tom woods and it explains in great detail how to set up driveshaft angle on a CV shaft. www.4xshaft.com/driveline101.html
Would you recommend the ballistic joints or bushings for a daily?