“It’s an act of faith to declare that the world is good because the evidence is ambivalent.” I loved how he worded that, and it’s so true.

@joshjackson678

Жыл бұрын

dont worry ben, michael has no idea who is pure of heart and who isn't nor is pure of heart even a useful thing. an act of faith isn't the same thing as having faith. and the true world being spiritual, laughable. cant prove nor disprove that, thus useless. the only veil over anyone's eyes is thinking that anybody has clue about anything we cant see or hear. and that leads to another realm of paradoxes. point is anyone can say some dumb shit complicated enough to look good. but its just shit with a suit on. like this here to somebody somewhere this is dumb lol, who cares live life before its over...... or will it ever end...... to infinity and beyond

@palestalemale8831

Жыл бұрын

If your self esteem is built on esteemable acts then the evidence is not ambivalent.

@bobbymacdermott6137

Жыл бұрын

it's an act of complacent arrogance

@palestalemale8831

Жыл бұрын

@@bobbymacdermott6137 looks like they got the fear taught into you very very deep. Sorry that you have to live a life like that. Sorry you got tricked into hating ppl by our government.

@fuiscklam4087

Жыл бұрын

This is it. This is the core of human conscience and the ultimate choice. And this is where I part from Peterson and the act of faith.

This is another level of conversation. Personally, I remember when I lived in St. Petersburg and read Crime and Punishment, visiting the places mentioned in the book. That was a different kind of experience. Dostoevsky could be the writer who reached the deeper meaning of humanity more than any other writer in the history of literature.

@TheVanillatech

Жыл бұрын

I read it. Took me 2-3 attempts because I was very young when I bought it, maybe 17 or so. Eventually, in my mid 20's, I picked it up again and sat through it, quite astonishing how amazing that story is. The pacing, the depth, the detail. I remembering finishing it and my mind spent weeks or maybe even months internally discussing what I had just read, and applying it to my own life and the real world. I read it again in my early 30's and took a little more from it. Everyone should read Crime & Punishment, just as everyone should read Electric Sheep by P.K. Dick.

@FriendlyFarmMachineryToolCpBel

Жыл бұрын

I read Crime and Punishment in my late teens or early 20's. I remember thinking then, that can't happen here, USA. Not much later I realized corruption is endemic to the system, regardless of geography, politics, or time!

@alexanderordinary2110

Жыл бұрын

Really??! Seriously??! even more than Joyce or shakespeare?? hmmmmm

@TheVanillatech

Жыл бұрын

@@alexanderordinary2110 From my pretty sparse reading experiences in terms of whats available over the centuries, I'd regard Dostoevsky as one of the best. Top five easily. Always been an admirer of Shakespeares flow and insight, and Voltaires sublime crunching of fluff while maintaining reason. No idea who Joyce is. Phillip K Dick, for what it's worth, is also legendary when he is at his best, in terms of mastery of chunking and taking a chisel to the written word. I remember reading Man In The High Castle and after reading an entire paragraph, I paused to marvel at how much was in those 7-8 lines of text, when it hit me - there wasn't a SINGLE period used, either. I read that paragraph over and over again. Shocked at how good it was.

@ebertapia1297

Жыл бұрын

@@alexanderordinary2110 , probably in your perception of the world, Shakespeare and the other guy( who's him ?) ..are the responsible of delivering Messages in order to change the point of view of everyone who've been reading masterpieces of literature looking for a real content in a book.. I am sorry to say to you ,and very cynical as well , that Shakespeare and the rest of the gang are just good books to read with a more allegorical sense than philosophical. Dostoevsky goes right to the bottom of the humanity's boundaries and develops a deep understanding of the spiritual and nature facts of the human being...

If someone asked me to create a reading plan of the very best of the great Russian authors it would look something like this. 1. The Captain’s Daughter by Alexander Pushkin 2. A Hero of Our Time by Mikhael Lermontov 3. Fathers and Sons by Ivan Turgenev 4. A collection of Anton Chekhov’s short stories (it doesn’t really matter which one specifically, just read 5-7 of his short stories) 5. Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy (make sure to get the unabridged version) 6. The Heart of a Dog by Mikhael Bulgakov (despite the title this is a very clever comedy and a lot of fun) 7. A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovitch or Cancer Ward both by Alexander Solzhenitsyn 8. War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy (this is not an easy or a fast read but is one of relatively few Russian books where almost everyone lives happily ever after. Penguin also recently released a new translation that’s a lot more readable then the traditional one I strongly recommend it.) 9. Leaves From a Russian Diary by Pitirim Sorokin. If you can’t find a copy (which is highly likely) then you can substitute Doctor Zhivago by Boris Pasternak 10. The Brothers Karamazov by Fydor Dostoevsky (it’s simply superb) All these books need to be read in a particular way. You can’t just cruise through them all in a rush. They have to be read thoughtfully and then applied to your life and society, if you are willing to read them like that, they will be deeply rewarding to you. Feel free to blast me in the comments for not including such geniuses as Gogol and Akhmatova, or my choice of books for particular authors.

@romanshuta6053

Жыл бұрын

Better to read Shalamov, Bunin, Sorokin and Gluhovski. Lermontov and Pushkin were typical impire writer. Shakamov 100% better than Solzhenicin. Lev Tołstoj created a myth about 19th century. More Russian writers mades fakes.

@annahauldrenetiquette

Жыл бұрын

What a great list. I do love Chekhov's plays as well. The Cherry Orchard is amongst my favorites.

@Skabanis

Жыл бұрын

No kazandzakis? Last temptation zorba ect…

@TamadorStoneskin

Жыл бұрын

@@Skabanis where on the reading list would you put them? I was trying to keep the number to 10. So my question is simply who would you replace?

@HenrySosenite

Жыл бұрын

It's a good list but I would add: "How It All Began" by Nikolai Bukharin It's a sweeping, dynamic portrait of turn-of-the-century Russia. The book is unfinished, but that's because he was executed, so I won't begrudge him that

One of the most amazing things about Crime and Punishment is that it was basically written just for money. Dostoyevsky was in debt and in addition lost a big amount of money playing cards, so he needed money really fast so he started work on it But failed to meet the deadline and wrote a "Player" But still needed to finish the book so he finished it in around a year. And it was second version because first version was put to fire by Dostoyevsky (it was pretty trendy among russian writers at the time lol)

@Edwin38397

10 ай бұрын

What no,I think when he lost money from gambling,he promised to write “The gambler” before the deadline,or am I wrong?

@Afdog

10 ай бұрын

@@Edwin38397 well as I understand they wanted “something” from him by the deadline and he started to work on it but didn’t like the result and quickly came up with gambler as a replacement (player in my version lol, had no idea how the name is translated to English, but gambler definitely fits better)

@gertstronkhorst2343

8 ай бұрын

It's so amazing that people do stuff for money!

@Afdog

8 ай бұрын

@@gertstronkhorst2343 the thing here is that usually people have to put all their soul and have other motivations then money to create something really amazing But this guy could just do brilliant stuff on demand so he could gamble and party a bit, not for some “high goals” or smth

@jennyjenny3531

2 ай бұрын

I think you're thinking of The Gambler

I was told by a Russian person that The Brothers Karamazov should be read at least 3 times. I have read it twice and it is my favorite novel ever. Right behind it are War and Peace, and Crime and Punishment. I know there are many great novels from many great novelists, but to me Dostoevsky is the best novelist ever. His understanding of human psychology was uncanny.

@ollikoskiniemi6221

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for giving me a reason to read Brothers Karamazov again!

@thejohnbeck

Жыл бұрын

Someone told me 3 times too, young, middle, old

@overlandkltolondon

Жыл бұрын

@@thejohnbeck 100%. I read it when I was young. Now just read it twice again in middle age.

@gfarrell80

Жыл бұрын

The only other novel I think that is comparable is Melville's Moby Dick. To me, both Brothers Karamazov and Moby Dick are head and shoulders above the rest. Melville and Dostoyevsky could see where this ship of humanity was sailing, and gave us prophetic warnings.

@thejohnbeck

Жыл бұрын

@@overlandkltolondon you did that wrong lol

"Neitzsche was like a character in a Dostoievsky novel." I totally agree. That's quite an insight! Thanks.

@Anicius_

Жыл бұрын

That's a stupid exaggerated statement. He says that because he doesn't like Nietzsche's critique of Christianity (organized religion) or his advocacy for atheism. What a naive little audience you make. it is only too clear that once the miserable swine are reduced to worshipping chastity - they will only see and worship in it the antithesis to themselves, the antithesis to miserable swine. The appearance of the Christian God as the most powerful god ever conceived has for that very reason brought into the world the greatest feeling of indebtedness as well. If we have in fact gradually started to retreat from that, we should not find it difficult to conclude with a fair degree of certainty, from the gradual but inexorable abandonment of belief in the Christian God, that a considerable loss of the sense of indebtedness has already occurred; indeed, we cannot shut our eyes to the pros pect of the complete and eventual triumph of atheism, freeing mankind from all this feeling of indebtedness to their origin, their causa prima.48 Atheism and a kind of secondary innocence complement and supplement one another." (genealogy of morality)

@ziggyzigggfreed4604

Жыл бұрын

@@Anicius_ I read Neitzsche for years in the culmination of leaving the Catholicism I was raised in. While I couldn't read the original German, the poetry and beauty of his impassioned arguements show through. There is no arguing Neitzsche was a gifted poet and philosopher. I myself spent a lot of time putting down and mocking Christians telling them how free they'd be as an atheist. But being honest I wasn't free myself. Making a long story short Neitzsche got one thing wrong that nullifies his whole beautiful sounding philosophy: God really did make us and made us will free will. Why can we know that? I heard an arguement at 14 that prompted me to be an atheist. In short, because evil exists in this world, there is no God because no good God would allow that. But it is plainly false because a loving, good God would not want mechanons "loving" Him unable to choose. God loves us so much when He created us He gave us the ability to reject Him. Only where there is freedom to decide is there love. God doesn't will the evil of this world, Icaeus. He simply allows it because this world is only a transitory but fascinating place. This life is simply about choice. There is a God. Get to know Him. The Prayer of Saint Francis is a great start. I would highly recommed reading The Demons by Dostoyevsky for an excellent portrait, not of Neitzsche, but the people he influenced. It is a far easier intro to Dostoyevsky than Brothers K. Also, since you liked reading Neitzsche as I did, I think you'll love G.K. Chesterton. There are a lot of good yt vids on him to get you started. Give him a try. I forgive your condescending comment whole heartedly because I was far worse in my condescension to others years ago.

@EricBryant

Жыл бұрын

Definitely. In Crime and Punishment the theme of the Ubermensch is a major one

@ziggyzigggfreed4604

Жыл бұрын

@@nikolamilicevic1040 Freedom is a difficult question these days. The so-called democracies claim freedom as a virtue. But "freedom" like that and free will are different things. Free will is the freedom to choose to do the right thing. Freedom is not permission to do whatever we want. Or to put it another way, some people confuse freedom with deciding what is right and what is wrong for themselves. We can't vote morality. I think I understand when you speak about unintelligent people making poor decisions. Much hurt in the world is caused by that. But I would point out that many of the problems in the world are also caused by very intelligent people. God made each of us. He knows our short-comings. To a person He gives more He will expect more. We aren't here for this world. We are made in the image and likeness of God. We are not just body and intellect, we have a soul. That soul will live on forever. This world will never be perfect. Jesus even said the poor will ALWAYS be with you. It is easy to say "If only these people would do this... If we only had this program or political system the world would be better." It never works. I think that is what I like so much about Dostoyesky. He writes about that struggle in a very deep way. The cost of being right or wrong in this world can be our very soul. But it isn't an intellectual choice or the idea of free will that gets us to Heaven. We need God's help all the way. Certainly we cannot prove that there is an afterlife. But you or anyone else can't disprove it. Ask God to come into your life. Ask Him to teach you how to live to be pleasing to Him and to give you the strength to live that way. If you are wrong in the end and you die and disappear what will you have lost. But if you are wrong you might lose everything. On your point about the insane woman who murdered her children I say that is no excuse for anything. Jesus, God Himself, was betrayed by Judas, one of His own apostles. Why should we expect any less in our own lives? We want the world to be a good place and we work hard to make it so. And many times the world is a terrible place because other people decide they disagree with the other people. Free will is not without terrible consequences. You said you do not want to be forced by God or religion to do what you don't want to do. Same with everyone else. But that doesn't mean there is no God. It means God's ways are so far above our ways that He can still keep in mind everyone of us as if we were the only one there. And by the way as my post was originally about Dostoyevsky you didn't say if you read anything by him?

@sunflare8798

Жыл бұрын

Nietzsche reached depths Dostoevsky could only dream about. He influenced most of the major thinkers after him

Look at your family dynamics and you'll all see the Karamazov's. It's a psychological study on people and how morality drives them to interact with eachother. Epic novel and always relevant

@gerryboudreaultboudreault2608

2 ай бұрын

Also try Crime And Punishment.

I read Dostoevsky in a Russian Literature class in college taught by a Russian professor. The Grand Inquisitor is one of the best sections in all of literature. One thing I remember from the class is that the names in Brothers Karamazov had meaning in Russian.

@draganastojanovic5835

Жыл бұрын

The Grand Inquisitor is something I think about on a daily basis these days

@user-ls3ww9ys4o

Жыл бұрын

No, there is not any special meaning or context in the brothers' names. Just common names. Still very popular. Have never heard any theories about their names. But there is an idea that Mitya is a body, Ivan is a brain and Alyosha is a soul of a human. But don't like it. And don't think Dostoevsky meant something like that.

@Charlie-qe6lv

Жыл бұрын

@@user-ls3ww9ys4o My professor was a native Russian and a brilliant man. I am not a native Russian speaker, so I really have no idea. Have a good day.

@user-ls3ww9ys4o

Жыл бұрын

@@Charlie-qe6lv my professor of Russian literature was also brilliant:) but there is really no special meaning of the brothers' names... May be it was your professor's own point of view. Have a nice Day, too:)

@jeanpuetersmit8524

Жыл бұрын

@@user-ls3ww9ys4o my dad could beat your dad up

"He ruined literature for me" - couldn't said it any better. Nothing I've read after Dostoevsky has come close to that level. Brothers Karamazov is the best novel ever written. No contest.

@RCEmichaelreavey

Жыл бұрын

Hugo, Hunchback! Fratellli tutti para 15

@josecesar9776

Жыл бұрын

Jesus... i feel the same. I mean, i have to try this Mikhail Bulgákov's "the master and margarita" for sure, as Peterson says

@Woody13woodpecker

Жыл бұрын

, You u must have been brought up in Yugoslavia, I had to read crime and punishment in highschool (gimnazija) , not 17 Year old, and I didn't get it. When I got to around 25 my junkie friend wanted to sell the Sabrana dela Dostojevskog for some puny money, I didn't let him, called his father, and took them all to keep it for his father. I remember clearly how I got sucked into the rabbit hole of reading and re reading, it did ruined a lot of books from very successful and critically acclaimed authors, but I feel that it made me see myself and others in different way, I was much harder to be manipulated and wanting to manipulate others much less. Unfortunately , it didn't bring me joy, just knowledge since I'm not religious and couldn't bring myself to that. Ultimately, if you're not religious, it's better to be dim or dumb than educated and somewhat smart, much less emotional suffering to be had, and you can't enjoy financial success if you have empathy and live in this world. Salute from your eastern neighbor!

@MonkeyDIvan

Жыл бұрын

You guys have clearly never read Tolkien or Sapkowski. Their books are better than those of Dostoevsky, it's not even close.

@jorgeenchilada

Жыл бұрын

@@josecesar9776 great book. Read it. Not as serious as BK though

The Brothers Karamazov is Dostoevsky’s best because you can literally find everything that he had written about beforehand within this one novel. All the problems identified in Notes From Underground, the nihilism Raskolnikov dealt with in Crime and Punishment, the Holy Fool of The Idiot, the consequences of Demons, and much more is all here. The craziest part is that The Brothers Karamazov was only part one of a much larger journey, but he died before he could work on it. Now is The Brothers Karamazov the best book? Well it’s definitely the best at exploring human nature. I’ve heard of other candidates such as Dante’s Divine Comedy, Augustine’s Confessions, Proust’s In Search of Lost Time, Cervantes’ Don Quixote (one of Dostoevsky’s personal favorites), Tolstoy’s Anna Karenina (which Dostoevsky described as a perfect work of art), Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago, and more. I still need to get through these, but they are good food for thought. Edit: never thought I’d start a war in the comments.

@jacopopispola9925

Жыл бұрын

I Can't believe your putting Dante and Solzenitsyn in the same conversation

@Brainbuster

Жыл бұрын

My favorite is _The Castle_ by Kafka. Peterson briefly mentioned Kafka here, but _The Castle_ is not his most popular book. I think it's Kafka's best (difficult to say though). Unfortunately, the novel ends mid-sentence due to Franz Kafka's untimely death. Still, my favorite book.

@boohennessy4638

Жыл бұрын

The fact that it ended with so much more story to tell really bummed me out. I know it's not his fault for not finishing it obviously. But I didn't know that it just abruptly ended.

@elegancia6179

Жыл бұрын

@@jacopopispola9925 why?

@UP4bug

Жыл бұрын

It warms my heart to see someone who has also read "The Castle" ! There is just something about this book and I can not understand what it is. I mean it is not even a finished story but it is utterly amazing. It put me in a kind of fever-dream state where everything seems so unreal but in a good, interesting way. I would say this book is the perfect definition of the term "Kafkaesk".

One of the best books. For me personally, The Master and Margarita is the best book ever written. Most of the Russian/Soviet classical writers are in the league of their own, nobody comes even close to their mastery.

@TheVernon8

8 ай бұрын

is this book good? I cant read! Im 1! signed, Joey (age 1)

@user-be6ye6cp3s

5 ай бұрын

We are a nation of writers. The Russian language is so rich that the country gives birth to writers and poets like donuts

@jdemille79

3 ай бұрын

That was a deep cut. Of course Peterson has read it!

@Dixlophosss

2 ай бұрын

@@user-be6ye6cp3sWe are the nation of butchers and slaves! Don’t flatter yourself!

@ElonMuskrat-my8jy

2 ай бұрын

​@@Dixlophosss✡️

As a Yugoslav, it's always been interesting to me to note how much of an effect Russian (something I consider myself a part of) literature has had on the world. To everyone fascinated by it, if you're struggling to find anything that comes close, I urge you to look to Yugoslavia.

The only that amazes me more than how much Jordan Peterson can speak like and athlete can run, is just how many books he has read which he can instantly reference into any conversation. Lex is equally as amazing how he's so well versed with every guest on his show considering every guest is typically in the top of their field.

@mkballer4502

Жыл бұрын

how is lex well versed?

@jakenbake9878

8 ай бұрын

@@mkballer4502did you watch this clip? Here is an example of what the OP is referencing

@uncleusuh

4 ай бұрын

@@jakenbake9878 OP lol, I thought I was on reddit considering I deleted my account few days ago.

Master and Margarita... the only book that made me cry. When Pontius Pilate walks the moonpath with his dog... gets me every time. I read it in Russian but even in English it's devastating. And the Satan's Ball -- amazing. I rank it higher than Crime& Punishment, which has that claustrophobic fin de siècle vibe.

@HueyPPLong

10 ай бұрын

@@yyyy12344Well if you can read Russian then certainly that’s better. But if not then reading the English is better than not reading it at all.

I wish I had the brilliance to read Brothers Karamazov for all of its many insights about life, faith, and our engagement in the world. I had help, with learned professors in college who included this book in the syllabus. I was amazed by the insights. Dostoevsky was given inspiration and he honed his craft around it.

Wow. This conversation made me stop for a moment. Took me out of my superficial, reactive mode I was in. It really moved me. Still feel moved when writing this....and made me decide to go and read this book. Thank you!

The Brothers Karamazov is my favorite, and I think it's certainly a candidate for the best book ever written. It woke me up more than any other book I've ever read.

@TheMonsterHunterTV

Жыл бұрын

have you ever read a novel by Thomas Mann? Magic Mountain or Buddenbrooks are his most famous works. Thomas Mann also wrote Joseph and his brothers. It's the greatest challenge accepted of all time. He started writing the book because Wolfgang Goethe wrote that he wished the biblical Joseph story to be longer and more masterfully written. Thomas Mann who has seen himslef as Goethes soulmate was like '"oh you mean you could'nt do it" and started writing this massive work. Thomas Manns kids hated their father they always praised his genius writing skills but also talked bad about some of his works. Well even they claimed that Joseph and His Brothers is as important as the Ilias and the Odyssey. That made me want to read this book and i have to say it might be even better than Brothers Karamazov. It really is that good and it is a shame that Manns other works overshaddow Joseph and his brothers even tough Joseph is considered his Main-work

@craig5322

Жыл бұрын

@@TheMonsterHunterTV Thank you for that intriguing recommendation! I'm looking that up now

@intotheriver9

Жыл бұрын

I just read it for the first time this very month. It had been gathering dust on my shelf for years. Ah! I could have used the "wake up" fifteen years ago. If anyone reading this is hemming and hawing about reading The Brothers K, just do it!

@breatheeasily4013

Жыл бұрын

Have you read the Bible? It will pull you off death.

@nuntana2

Жыл бұрын

Love Jordan bringing up Master and Margarita. One of my favourites. Fabulous book. Unless you speak Russian, get a good translation.

I love you Lex and Jordan. Jordan, you bring me so much joy when you describe the depths of texts and bring us closer to profound ideas and truths. Watching you has made my life better, and watching you makes me enjoy the better life.

I'm so glad watching people talking about great books. For this new year, for me time to read some great novels.

I feel humility because this is one of a hundreds of comments here, that will never be read or heard, nevertheless, the need of expression after witnessing this conversation wins with it and may the futility of this task will be forgotten. You both, but especially Mr. Peterson remind me that my need to talk with deep and beautiful minds is always possible, at least whenever I have a book nearby or am able to witness this level of intellectual manifestation and the play between two minds. And for this you have my gratitude. Thank you

@danmalic6688

2 ай бұрын

ok... i have read your comment......feel better? and i think/am convinced that if one reads a masterpiece, one is indeed in the company of the writer having a drink together🥃☕

War and Peace is the greatest novel I've read and re-read every five years. Brothers K is my second favorite novel. Brothers K is more incisive in its areas of concern, but War and Peace is broader, and it helps that there is so much more of it and it covers a larger time span allowing for extended character development. Interesting detail: Tolstoy died with Brothers Karamazov on his nightstand.

@igorvyshnianchyn8983

Жыл бұрын

Really? I barely finished it. I really regret the time I spent on it. Too stretched and lackluster in my opinion. But hey, to each its own :)

@TomasAugust

Жыл бұрын

In War and Peace you read 5 pages how leave falls out of the tree.

@sometexthere4169

Жыл бұрын

its interesting that u even re read it because i even cant finish one book because it was too boring. Maybe because we had to read it when i was at school - in russia i mean. But even in russian its hard to read and understand.

@gingerbill128

Жыл бұрын

Too long winded and stretched out for me. Too many wasted pages saying nothing.

@chrisculver567

Жыл бұрын

@@igorvyshnianchyn8983 It's a challenging read: part philosophical treatise, part history book, while mostly a novel. Pierre Bezukhov has one of the most developed character arcs in fiction. Tolstoy vivifies life like no other narrative artist. The ball becomes as real off the page as the battle, and we come to understand the senile father with the same degree as we understand his cowering yet loving daughter.

It is so amazing and a blessing I am being able to hear this conversation, we are not alone, in some miraculous way humans found the way to share their very best ideas, feelings and insights by means in this case of this podcast and this men. Thank you beyond words.

@MrHamtits

9 ай бұрын

Calm down. It's a podcast

If I am not mistaken, Dostoyevsky was dying as he had it transcribed by his wife Anna. She helped him with so many of his other books that I am sure she absorbed a fair amount of his patterns of thought... Great book, it's raw material was his past writings, very interesting life experience and the feedback from broader Russian society.

literally gives me goosebumps when Jordan nearly cried in the last part! is it a coincidence that I cried lonely by myself in my room when I read that part for the first time in the book? I can not help seeing it as aljoscha saw it.. if we truly have faith in a good world we need to embrace it.. otherwise and yet we are all responsible not only for ourself but everyone around us.. dostojevsky is a true architect when it comes to the smallest motions and aspects of human soul and character!!

By far the greatest most influential book I've ever read. Truly life changing and worth a spot on the bedside table for life

The Brothers Karamazov is a masterpiece.

@Immigrantlovesamerica

Жыл бұрын

Now everyone read it 🙄

@danboshane6956

Жыл бұрын

It truly is. Surprised to hear lex say that The Idiot was also a favorite, it felt like a 800 page soap opera to me. But the ending had a very deep end substantive twist for sure.

@eduardx6750

Жыл бұрын

Honestly I was more annoyed by the rather submissive and docile prince and the overly emotional and dramatic divas he simped for

@philosphorus

Жыл бұрын

There are many great books. Labyrinths by Jorge Luis Borges is a greater book that The Brother Karamazov. Same with many I can think of.

@robinbergfeld5140

Жыл бұрын

The heart is a lonely hunter touched the fabric of human reality for me too.

The parallel between Nietzsche and Dostoïevsky has always reminded me the story of Nietzsche's madness. He saw a horse beaten by his master and embrace the horse while weeping before falling into madness. In Crime and Punishment, It is the nightmare of Raskolnikov.

@ElonMuskrat-my8jy

2 ай бұрын

That scene was inspired by an actual crime in Russia where that really happened.

Just started 'Brothers' this week - wish me luck! The books a monster with the translation around 1000 pages

@user-mg8in3ku1l

2 ай бұрын

Did you finish yet? The most significant chapter, to me, was The Grand Inquisitor. I'm still thinking about it, 30 years later.

When the novelty of the conversation has worn off and I see you close your eyes and rub your forehead and eyes while thinking through the ideas of what you want to explain, I know there is meaning. Incredible, incredible conversation.

“The more you act out the proposition that it is good, the better it gets.” I’ve lived this out to both ends. It is terrifyingly true.

What blows my mind is the ability to create all these characters from a single mind. All with their individual lives, wisdoms and nuances, from father zosdima and his beautiful wisdom to Fyodor. There is literature and there is literature. I know everything has its place but sometimes I fall for the 'this years best seller' and give it a go, always returning to The classics, Dickens, Dostoevsky and others as nothing else seems to have the same substance. If I'm going to use my valuable time on earth reading a book I want to get something In return. The way Dickens words the death of Mr Barkis in DC is still the most beautiful pice of writing I have ever read. "And, it being low water, he went out with the tide."

JP reminded me of a poem when he was speaking at the end. “I slept and dreamt that life was joy, I woke and saw that life was duty, I acted, and behold, duty was joy”

Such a pleasure watching them conversate.

What a phenomenal conversation.

Wonderful discussion. Crime and Punishment had a powerful effect on me in college. The Russian writers have always been my favorites.

@ByWayOfDeception

Жыл бұрын

I think that describes half the commenters.

@gerryboudreaultboudreault2608

2 ай бұрын

Please include Solzhenitsyn!

Thanks Lex! This was a cure for my bleeding heart, listening how you both talk about most important Book in my life as well. "Spirit of encouragement"... Great! Thanks so much! God bless you both!

If Lex continued to wear the Pulp Fiction suit but grew his hair out Vincent Vega style, I would hire him to commit crimes and be more confident in him to get it done right than I would be in John Travolta, just in case Tarantino cares about my casting opinions.

@sLw1337

Жыл бұрын

You can't afford him

@matthewz5220

Жыл бұрын

@@sLw1337 You might be shocked by what I can afford when I want something.

@BlastinRope

Жыл бұрын

what if the crime you needed to hire someone to commit was being the "straighest gay guy"

@BayouMaccabee

Жыл бұрын

@@BlastinRope That role would probably be easier to pull off convincingly than one of "the gayest straight guy".

@BayouMaccabee

Жыл бұрын

@@matthewz5220 lol

All books by Dostoevsky can be considered best ever. He's work is brilliant, so deep and eternal bcs it focuses on human soul and psychie

@MonkeyDIvan

Жыл бұрын

Can be considered best ever? That's quite the statement. Can you provide us with a list of the books you've read among the millions that exist that would help back up such a big statement? Next time try and chill with your ego. You've read Dostoevsky and listen to Peterson, we get it.

@friedrickhugo7562

Жыл бұрын

DA!

@lomaszaza7142

Жыл бұрын

Dostoevsky didn't wrote ex-nihilo. His thought n life profundly influnced by Judeo-Christian ideals n day to say life.

@uolfansitomichuminolimon123

Жыл бұрын

@@MonkeyDIvan u made shit skin

@channelname5938

Жыл бұрын

@@MonkeyDIvan My guy, they’re not claiming they know for a fact that it’s objectively the greatest book ever written. Everyone in the universe has had this conversation of the best movie/show/book/whatever in a given category. Tying it to fans is extremely cringe.

I just purchased The Brothers Karamazov as a result of this clip. Looking forward to reading it when I find the time this summer.

Absolutely his best work. The part when Ivan Karamazov has the moment of clarity are some of the best words ever written. No one understood the human condition and put it into words like Dostoevsky.

The Brothers Karamazov might be Dostoevskys best novel, but to those who cant plough through it: dont feel bad, the first 80 pages are the conversations of crazy people! One thing that guys right about, "The Master and Margarita" (Bulgakov) is a brilliant ride! An absolute Triumph!

@speakrussian6779

Жыл бұрын

"The Master and Margarita" is a sarcastic book. Nobody understand the Soviet sarcasm even nowadays Russians. 😀

@Skipjack7814

Жыл бұрын

"The Master And Margarita" is an "Ironic" book, Pokes some fun at the Communist system, but has a beautiful relationship sub-plot, AND a great, easy to read representation of things that may have happened during a certain Passover week in the time of the second temple! 😃

@psgrenier

Жыл бұрын

That is literally true. Especially the father Karamazov.

@ORBrunner

Жыл бұрын

@@speakrussian6779 It goes deeper than a sarcasm on reality of these times It was a reflection of fears and religion things and eternal questions of finding your way and place in the world

@sunkintree

4 ай бұрын

It's a slow burn of a book. But around the middle of it, it slowly starts to pick up steam and it gets hard to put down to the very end

The MartyrMade podcast did a masterful in-depth analysis of Dostoevsky and Nietzsche. Juxtaposing their lives, their choices and their quest for meaning in the modern world, in an incredibly captivating narrative.

@gemthomas

Жыл бұрын

Bruh ... Good referral ... Just disc. And def. Gonna dive in 5 hrs !!

@jontip

Жыл бұрын

Thx for the heads-up. Can you tell be the name of the episode pls?

@HeremansIsaac1

Жыл бұрын

@@jontip It's #20 The Underground Spirit. It's true that the episode name doesn't really give it away.

@jontip

Жыл бұрын

@@HeremansIsaac1 Nice one Isaac, looking forward to hearing lt 🙌

@JKfilmzor

Жыл бұрын

I’ve listened to this over and over and discover new information each time

Thank you for posting this beautiful discussion, a reminder to read these great books again .

One of the best clips from a podcast of all time. Interact with great books, it gives you unlimited and untimed access to the greatest minds thinking most profoundly.

If I ever get depressed or broken to the point where functioning seems impossible, it’s to these men that I’ll turn for inspiration to get back up.

@SyntGames

Жыл бұрын

Worked for me!

@daves-c8919

Жыл бұрын

@GWRG Happy to hear it

@CapriconQuin-ep5ds

Ай бұрын

Don't forget Robert Greene😊

Not surprised Nikos Kazandzakis is so high on Peterson’s list. Amazing writer! MY favorite.

@PInk77W1

Жыл бұрын

While all my friends in high school were doing drugs and partying I read one of his books off The shelf. Still remember it.

@readgreatbooks9077

Жыл бұрын

What is your favorite kazantzakis book. I’ve read three so far and love them all. Probably Greek passion is my favorite idk

Ive seen hundreds of JP interviews but the clips with Lex are the best. He's the best interviewer who hits at good topics and intelligent follow up questions.

the philosophical conversations in TBK are so in depth and Dostoevvsky does such a good job of stepping into alternate points of view with integrity, not trying to paint them out to have the wrong ideas.

this podcast was just incredible. i keep coming back to it and discovering new gems and insights.

I’m not a very good reader but I forced myself to finish this book. It felt like much of it went over my head, but I got the overall plot and some themes. Steinbeck is more my style. I’m a simple man.

@escalera601

Жыл бұрын

This is the most honest comment I’ve read on KZread in years. Your a good person Jacob and that’s all that matters in the end.

@Dropthebeatonit

Жыл бұрын

This is a very sweet back and forth, well done you two

@gingerbill128

Жыл бұрын

Steinbeck is great as well , maybe because i read my first at school but his books made me feel emotions. That got me into reading.

@viktormuerte

Жыл бұрын

Nothing wrong with that my friend.

@rockybalboagaralhaoitalian4592

Жыл бұрын

Me to Also a good song by lynyrd skynard

Thanks for the great conversation Lex and Jordan.

I need to read it along with Crime and Punishment, I’ve already read notes from underground and fell in love with his writing and philosophies

Both of you run rings around me in interpreting the books by Dostoevsky and by chance I'm reading Brothers Karamazov right now but I can say I liked the way Crime and Punishment was written the best. If I could say---again to both of you since you obviously like to read---to give World Without End by Ken Follet a read. It's over 1,200 pages and I'm telling you, it's impossible to put down. The man writes and a film goes on in your mind. You look at the words and wonder what he has done to weave such a tale that never tires in keeping your attention. You see the people and events and the world he describes in such detail; he's the Rembrandt of popular fiction. When he writes, another world comes to life. It doesn't delve into the dimensions of Dostoevsky of course, but what it has done for me is revived my interest in reading because he is a master storyteller. With the digital world encroaching on us, my reading skills were thinning out and suddenly I bought World Without End sort of as a joke at the flea market in the beginning of the summer because it was so thick. Much to my surprise it made reading a come-back for me this summer.

@edscmidt5193

Жыл бұрын

Crime and punishment is way more of an enjoyable read

@ibnkhaldun7373

Жыл бұрын

I strongly believe that Crime and punishment is a remake of the short story by Edgar Allan Poe called "The Tell-Tale Heart" published in 1843.

@edscmidt5193

Жыл бұрын

@@ibnkhaldun7373 the murder and it getting the best of their conscious is for sure really similar, but the point of the two stories are different. The theme of each isn’t really unique, anyone could come up with the idea of those stories, the differences of the two stories are immense and the length comparison alone

@adrianjd32

Жыл бұрын

If you want your mind blown read East of Eden

For everybody watching this that is really interested in literature, i recommended reading "Tobbaco", by Dimitar Dimov. He is a bulgarian author and this book is one of the greatest literary achievements of my country. It has deep psychological and sociological insights. And if somebody is reading this, please recommend something written in your country that is a great piece of literature but is not well known internationally, many gems are buried in the language barrier. Last note, tobbaco has an original and a edited (censored by the communist party) version, so try to find the original one.

@small_vill8686

Жыл бұрын

Ralph waldo Emerson. from US

@aminomind

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for sharing

@hotchesh

Жыл бұрын

Another Bulgarian here. For some reason I still haven’t read it. About time to open it up. 🙏 thanks for reminding.

@thiagohubes

Жыл бұрын

Machado de Assis, Brazil

@valilica1703

Жыл бұрын

The 25th hour by Virgil Gheorghiu from Romania

Not bad for 8 minutes! And, some good reading ideas! I like these clips!

cant wait to check these books out!

This is why I love Peterson’s take on Dostoevsky: he understands the writer and the literature. As complex as Dostoevsky was as a novelist, the concepts he explored, if anything present a wonderful story, truly aimed to find some of the most profound answers to questions humankind will never find. And yet, placing oneself within the consciousness of the author who can elaborate on such topics like faith, familial tragedy, or existential crises, with hope one will find, is one of the most rewarding experiences of all time.

@gfarrell80

Жыл бұрын

I had a slight problem with Peterson at 4:50 saying Alyosha 'wins'. I'm not sure either Ivan or Alyosha 'wins' in Brothers Karamazov (or Dimitri, for that matter). Maybe this is my personal interpretation. But I think that was part of the power of Dostoyevsky - he could hold in his head two such different views on life and present them both so strongly. My feeling is that Alyosha's more spiritual renewal and vision of Russia is very much informed by the case that Ivan lays out in 'Pro and Contra' and 'The Grand Inquisitor'. You can't have 'The Father Zosima' or 'The Speech at the Stone' without Ivan's preceding chapters. I think it says something about Peterson when says he thinks Alyosha 'wins'.

@apartfromdreams

Жыл бұрын

@@gfarrell80 I would agree with that take. Although it’s been a few years since I last read The Brothers K, I interpreted Peterson’s comment “Alyosha wins” as he was the only brother who remained faithful throughout the entire narrative. Ivan and Dmitri, I would argue, strayed from God’s grace throughout the novel. But Alyosha became “heroic” by remaining faithful to the life he chose. I don’t know if any of that makes sense… I’m in need of another go at the story.

I feel blessed that I was able to read Dostoyevsky in Russian.

@annishenko

Жыл бұрын

I am reading it in English and its rough.

@alewoanna

Жыл бұрын

@@annishenko I’m sorry to hear :( I imagine translation is even harder to read than the original.

@annishenko

Жыл бұрын

@@alewoanna maybe. My native language is Russian but I dont remember much after moving to America. I am though confused by the name Aglayah. Does it sound so much like " naglayah " to you ? It distracts me

@alewoanna

Жыл бұрын

@@annishenko you made me chuckle :) I am not annoyed by the name (it’s kinda beautiful in an old-fashioned way), but I can see your point about “naglaya” 😀

@Eroshenkova

Жыл бұрын

@@annishenko you say AglAya. And nAglaya. So it's diffrent to me. I have a friend who's daughter is Aglaya))))

I feel like I need to watch this interview at least 4 more time, thoroughly enjoyed this!

This is an amazing conversation.

Lex looks so at place interviewing Jordan. A deep and spiritual connection firing on all cylinders

Master and Marguireta is a mind bending/dark yet delightfully written book

@watercave4905

Жыл бұрын

Reading it now ! I strongly recommend the Burgin & O'Connor translation for anyone interested

@preciousamaechi5887

Жыл бұрын

@@watercave4905 why should we go for that particular translation , if I may ask?

@watercave4905

Жыл бұрын

​@@preciousamaechi5887It is accurate to the original russian without losing the flavor of the language and storytelling in the process. It really is a joy to read Burgin & O'Connors translation but considering how good the book is you won't lose with any translation honestly

@oller7113

Жыл бұрын

...and funny like hell!

@BigSmartArmed

Жыл бұрын

At this point I'm pretture sure it's not a book.

Excellent interview and discussion.Thanks very much

I was 18 when I first read The Brothers Karamazov. Even as an immature teenager I recognized that this was one of the greatest books ever written. It has everything, and has it all genuinely.

So many gems in this interview, Thank You to Lex and Jordan for the willingness to go places and look into the heart of evil and the resilience to talk about it, to share lessons from this….

@Longo556

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, the child-like optimism and childish naivety was a great differentiation.

"Nietzsche is almost a character in a Dostoevsky novel" Perfect line

@wtk6069

Жыл бұрын

Personally, I see Nietzsche is more accurately a character from Ivan Turgenev. In his younger days, he was probably very similar to Bazarov from Fathers and Sons.

@chrislopez7670

Жыл бұрын

Definitely Ivan

As a Russian who read those books at school, it is amazing to listen you speak so admirably about our literature

@typereiter

Жыл бұрын

I would feel the same if I saw two famous russians gushing over some profound American literature

@bigboymamba

Жыл бұрын

i learnt a little Russian because my wife is from Kaliningrad, but i cannot read any book in Russian. i read them in German. i read most Russian classics but my favourites are from ilja ilf the golden calf, very good description of Sowjet time absurdities and obviously Dostojewski i started with very easy stuff like the gambler. have a good day

@ThePerpetualStudent

11 ай бұрын

I don't know a lot about writing but I am learning. However, it sounds like he is one of the greatest riders of all time. You should be proud.

I like Brothers Karamazov not because it has all answers, but because it shows you how to act when you don't. Dostoiesvki original idea was to write a biography of Aliocha in two novels: the first showing how the caracter becomes Aliocha, the ultimate hero, the second telling the ACTUAL STORY with the hero. A shame that Dostoiesvki died before he could write the second part.

Hey Lex I’ve picked up a beautiful used copy of Crime and Punishment from my local bookstore. I plan to finish it over the next few weeks and move on to The Brothers Karamazov.

@iameternalsunshine

Жыл бұрын

Be prepared on a altered world view.

@Aj-ch5kz

Жыл бұрын

Same here

@JamesBond-uz2dm

Жыл бұрын

I read Crime and Punishment first then The Brothers Karamazov. They seem to go together that way.

@Ramon-gg3bd

Жыл бұрын

Enjoy the ride!

@Steve-ArfArf

Жыл бұрын

@@iameternalsunshine I'm about a third the way through crime and punishment. Will the altered world view come on completion?

The Brothers Kamarasovs blew my mind reading it as a teen. Should reed again now, 40 years later, after becoming a beliver in Christ.

@yog-sothoth37

Жыл бұрын

Welcome

@Luke-kj1rj

Жыл бұрын

TbK is great> i believe in god. What a complete non sequitur

@ElonMuskrat-my8jy

2 ай бұрын

Orthodoxy is the true faith. Elder Zosima was based off of Sts. Ambrose of Optina and Tikhon of Zadonsk.

I admire many books but the impact Crime and Punishment had on me is second to none. I was 16-17, the book and the idea left me speechless and to this day that is the most profound piece of literature I have stumbled upon. Dostoevsky is non comparable.

I had several times tears in my eyes because of getting touched/feeling resonance with the thoughts been spoken out by those 2. "Am I going to act as if the world is good and what would happen if I did?" ... "The more you act out the proposition that it's good, the better it gets."

Such an understated, profound, awesome interview. My soul comes to a standstill when I watch Jordan discover truth on his feet, while talking

This book made me believe in God

@freestylingwhistler

Жыл бұрын

interesting. this book reinforced my agnosticism. it's my favorite book of all time, and unfortunately the world is full of grand inquisitors, NOT alyosha's

@sigmarecovery699

Жыл бұрын

@@freestylingwhistler “Grand Inquisitors”. Brilliant description.

@akirameru675

Жыл бұрын

Then you are a fool.

@joshcastro739

Жыл бұрын

I personally form my beliefs based off facts not feelings but to each their own

@gjm112

Жыл бұрын

God isn't real. Just thought you should hear that.

man im so happy he mentioned my favorite writer nikos kazantzikas

What a beautiful conversation.

So glad he mentioned Kazantzakis. I adore him. Also how true that Nietze could easily be a Dostoyefski character...

@readgreatbooks9077

Жыл бұрын

What’s your favorite Kazantzakis book? Greek passion for me but I’ve only read three so far

"I could be wrong about that". I love how Peterson never tries to come across as pretentious in his knowledge. Despite his intelligence, he is still reluctant to make claims without evidence. It's so refreshing, particularly in today's age when everyone and their mother thinks they are a philosopher because they have some arbitrary social media following.

@PEPSEP

Жыл бұрын

That’s odd. I find him to be a pretentious asshole. Guess different strokes for different folks

@joshjackson678

Жыл бұрын

right on. every person is living their own reality and they think they have all the answers.. i used to also hahah. whew i woke up. now I know I'm dumb as shit, and so is everyone else.. knowing what everyone else knows doesn't make us smart just makes us as knowledgeable as everyone else lol. that is not smart just common

@PEPSEP

Жыл бұрын

@@joshjackson678 That's too bad, I never think of myself as "dumb" why would I? Treat yourself better.

@joshjackson678

Жыл бұрын

@@PEPSEP treating yourself like you know something when you really don’t is more harmful than knowing one is dumb in the grand scale of things.

@PEPSEP

Жыл бұрын

@@joshjackson678 Huh? So the only alternative, in your mind, is to call myself dumb, and if I don't then I am claiming to know everything? How do we learn? because by that rationale no one knows anything. All I said was be nice to yourself, and don't call yourself dumb.

This insightful conversation illustrates how wonderful a vehicle the internet can be.

“The more you act out the proposition that the world is good… the better it gets.” Holds back tears.*

Hey, I'm reading Bulgakov at the moment! Not even finished with it yet but going to have to reread to absorb it...

@mailoisback

Жыл бұрын

yeah absorb that dirt...

Its actually fascinating to see so many people interested in Dostoevsky and his novels which are unique and incomparable to any other books. I really recommend everyone to read "Demons" if you are into Dostoevsky, imo its better than Brothers Karamazov and The Crime and the Punishment

@Gurovski

Жыл бұрын

I'll give Demons a read next, thanks for the tip🧐

@Mymle

Жыл бұрын

I’ll read demons as well, would you recommend notes from underground ? From what I understand both are short novels and I’d like to read them both soon.

@ElonMuskrat-my8jy

4 ай бұрын

​@@MymleTry Dream of a Ridiculous Man and Notes From the Underground.

I'm "reading" it right now and must say it is quite captivating.. I've yet to read any of his other titles though

When a conversation touches on Dostoevsky and Nietzsche, I am all in!

Given enough time, I think we can all see ourselves in all the brothers

I strongly believe that Crime and punishment is a remake of the short story by Edgar Allan Poe called "The Tell-Tale Heart" published in 1843.

A unbelievable conversation

I love listening to these insightful conversation videos and just as much the intelligent people who comment on them.

I read Crime and Punishment when I was 15 or 16. At that time every book took me a few months to finish, even the ones that I liked. I finished Crime and Punishment in 3 or 4 days. It was so different than everything that I read before. It fascinated me. I read a lot from Dostoyevsky sonce than, and he has become my favourite author. Karamazov is a masterpiece too. I think that was the only book that could make me cry. Those last few pages were hard. Glad that Jordan mentioned Master and Margarita too. Another one of my favourites.

@IoT_

Жыл бұрын

You have a very nice taste, man 👌 I've read all of them also in the original language.

@Mymle

Жыл бұрын

I think maybe we understand the story differently from what we can comprehend at that age. I’ll read crime and punishment again, I also read it in 4 days I think, over the Christmas break a few years ago.

@A_Random_Rat

7 ай бұрын

What translation did you read?

@panagiotakonstantopoulou962

3 ай бұрын

Agree, Master & Margarita is one of my favourites also.

Listening to these two brilliant thinkers makes me feel like I should go back and repeat Grade 3.

Thank you very much, Alex!! Great topic, great talk!!

Great podcast and great interview. After hearing how Jordan Peterson broke down the book and the philosophical view he got from it, I decided to buy.

Master and Margerita is one of my absolute favourite books also. It's great on so many levels.

@olgak1584

Жыл бұрын

My favorite book too!

@hikemartman7971

Жыл бұрын

🔥🔥🔥

@orhan771

Жыл бұрын

Yes. Master and Margerita is also inspiring than Dostoevskis books.

Brothers Karamazov was interesting, but it never really clicked for me. The characters are roaming around in an existential panic, constantly - like a little world of testy philosophers and psychoanalysts. But there's a lot to learn from watching those misadventures unfold, and I certainly wouldn't argue against it being labeled one of the greatest books ever written. How do you folks feel about Les Miserables? The French Revolution followed by the Napoleonic Empire's rise and fall; political views ebbing and flowing; the battle between liberty and order, chaos and stultification; humanity's relationship with the greatest and least; man's own search for his soul... Plus a little comedy thrown in. That's a good book. It wonderfully lays out and explores the themes Peterson analyzes in Maps of Meaning. Whether or not it's in the "greatest book ever written" contest or not, I would recommend it to everyone.

Nikos Kazantzakis I read one of his books in high school On my own. I still remember it. Now I’m 61

The last part of conversation reminds me the line from Beatles song: "the love you take is equal to the love you make".

My personal favourite is Demons. The second half of that book blew my mind.

@JordanBPeterson

Жыл бұрын

The second half is great.

@ElonMuskrat-my8jy

Ай бұрын

​@@JordanBPetersonCan you review 200 Years Together?

Jordan Peterson is a wonderful human being. What a gift he is giving humanity by expressing his beautiful mind and thoughts without a filter.

Thank goodness for literary discussions and open minds. We all float on…..👍

Great conversation. Thanks. Jordan Peterson always worth listenting too.