An amazing bike and a feat of engineering , but I wish they hadn't made it. How do I explain to my wife that I "need" another Brompton ?

Excellent analysis! Well done

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching

Thank you for your interesting, informative and objective analysis, subscribed

Nice lightweight and very functional bike. Thank you for the bike review.

I build a titanium Rohloff kinetics brompton couple of months ago, yes titanium is bit flexy but apart from that that bike is such a beast

Thanks for sharing

Thank you Dr James; great review... am on my 4th Brompton, had a two speed S type Ti Ultralight, L6 - all steel, SRAM gearing (first bike), and two S Type Ti 6 speeds with BWR Sturmey Archer. L6 dark blue w. silver extremities; S Type two speed Flamingo Pink, S Type Ti 6 speed BWR's, one Arctic Blue, now my current model is Hot Pink (bought it as is a bit pinker than Flamingo). Think the Brompton T Line is a major advance & accomplishment for the company - it is truly iconic. i want one and am going to have to start saving some serious pennies. Personally, i would like to see this bike with a carbon aero wheelset, elliptical spokes, spoke counts are okay, carbon handlebar, carbon mudguard blades, 6-speed derailleur gearing w. ratios identical to the old SRAM setup. That would be a proper pocket rocket. Brompton, please take note... so nearly there! Minor changes; all easy to do; well easier than fabricating the mainframe in Ti, for which i applaud you. :)

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

If your wife ever complains about your hobby tell her be to glad that these are folding bikes and not cars.

@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188

7 ай бұрын

A Brompton is an "awful bike" on the small, hard rolling wheels and its only reason to be made is folding into hardly nothing, when not being used as a bike. My now much less than Superlight, with mudguards. and for a much less price than a T-line, even with all the titanium now on it!! Finn

Probably the best Brompton ever made. But ridiculously expensive. And with its limited gearing. It would still struggle on the hills where I live. People have this obsession with bike weight. But if the gearing is not on par. It will still have serious limitations. If I have to face one particular hill where I live. Would I want to take it on with my 23lb Tern verge X11 with its amazing 10--42 11 speeds. 24 gear inches to 102 (£2,400). Or a 16lb Brompton Tline with its limited 4 gears (£4,500). I know the anwser.

Would love to see a head to head between this T line and the Easy-Ti Brompton copy which is lighter and appears to have better welds .

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

If done well, Easy Ti bromptons can go sub-5.5kg. Go to Brompton Hacks on FB there is a Korean Prof of Engineering who made 5 of them for his family called Brompnot

hello dr james Delighted with your videos of electrifying brompton and those of brompton, I just saw the T Line, thanking you in advance and appreciating your perfect technical knowledge, allow me to tell you about my sad story, I bought the P Line and the Swicht Light Kit (never mounted it) according to me to electrify it, months later the P Line Electrica came out (but I had already bought the switch), 1 month ago my P Line was stolen and well luckily I acquired the T Line Mid, the question is can I use the switch kit on the T Line or why not? What do I need to be able to mount it? will it be expensive? Or is it better to sell it and wait for a kit that is exclusive for the T Line? The area where I live and move is mixed 70% flat and 30% hilly, especially to get to my house there are slopes of 18% to 25% on ninebot g30 mx scooter he climbs them without problem comfortably without effort in sport mode Thank you very much for your attention and videos, raphael We see you from San Pedro Garza, Nuevo Leon, Mexico Greetings

Re the potential after market electrification with ARCC or Swytch, am I right to think the carbon forks will be less suited to the additional stresses long term from a powered front wheel than classic steel? Brompton of course built in additional strength to their Electric forks.

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

That is a very good point. I recommend going back to steel forks when electrifying this. I heard titanium forks can't handle electric motors either.

Little bit puzzled by that comment about the bottom bracket "injection moulding" Will have to look into seeing if it was in fact a laser printed item. Best Dave

So which bike would you rather have and why? The T-Line or the Hummingbird? I've read that the Hummingbird has a stiffer, less forgiving ride.

Nice insight, it will be good to see the production bike. One big ick with me is why don't they introduce disc brakes. This is essential for a commuting bike, forget weight - performance and safety please! Then you can splash on some carbon rims and polyethylene spokes!

@DrJamesT

Жыл бұрын

Agree, the light road bikes have disc brakes. It's probably the fold size they don't want to affect.

Some very helpful and interesting points (I was a bit confused by the references to the "cross bar", however - is that what Brompton call it?)

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

Its literally a bar that crosses between two bars for strength - "cross bar". I'll add more arrows and visuals next time

Nice pointing out the hole(s). I would assume that they will recommend to fold it down and not leave it out. When folded, the holes effectively go away, right?

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

The holes are created when it's UNFOLDED.

@JasonWD

2 жыл бұрын

@@DrJamesT This water discussion is a non-starter. On the steel frame water can easily get past the hinge if it wants too. Even on a conventional bike water will get past the seatpost into the frame.

can training wheels be attached?

Hello Dr James I previously watched your ARCC and Switch video, I learned about the T Line from your analysis video, I signed up and got it 1 month ago, and the Switch kit arrived 2 months ago, now I see this video and I realize that I won't be able to use my electric kit on the T Line, I don't like the idea of changing the fork, but I'm not clear if it should be steel or can it be titanium like the one on the P Line? Please would you be so kind as to confirm what material? On the other hand, there is no other option other than changing the fork? I don't know how to put reinforcement washers or protectors, etc... or do you have reference to any other option? Another brand of electric kit that is on the rear tire? Thank you for your time dedicated to these videos that are really of great help to us commoners... Greetings Rafael

@DrJamesT

9 ай бұрын

A titanium or steel fork from other brompton lines will fit the T line apparently. Both of these can hold a motor. You can get a bike shop to change it. I also suggest to the join the facebook Brompton T-line to get tips from fellow T line owners

Total madness to have a carbon seat stem and front forks , especially when they already had the titanium option .

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

The Ti seat stem hasn't been made since 2007. The Ti stem is actually lighter than this carbon steel version by 50g

@felixcat9318

Жыл бұрын

I agree, I think the carbon handlebars, forks and seat post are not preferable to titanium.

Keep in mind that the Swytch Kit uses a lowly cadence sensor as opposed to a torque sensor, which to me kills all the fun in riding. Its edsentially a pedal-activated on-off switch for the motor. Also note that the official Brompton electric has a reinforced fork. While I'm willing to bet the carbon fork will be just fine -- there are plenty of ebikes with carbon forks from lesser companies, this is nonetheless a risk. I *have* seen even steel bikes with damaged forks from a motor they werent designed to handle. Personally, I think Brompton should make a titanium electric. Yes itd be heavier, which some might see as defeating the purpose, but it still be one of the lightest ebikes around, let alone a folding one.

@DrJamesT

9 ай бұрын

The ebike with "carbon" forks is reinforced with metal. Just like the brompton T line seat post is carbon wrapped with steel. The dropout design is usually the point of failure so make sure the washer reinforcements fit or add a torque arm.

All very informative and interesting. Not read comments, yet. But mine is... I did not understand the Seat post Having To Be Steel Sheaved Carbon (which otherwise would get chewed up raising and lowering?!) but all my Brompton's main frame have a plastic (reamed to size) sleeve, I have had steel, aluminium, titanium and carbon seat posts, no chewing up. Are you saying the T line does not have a seat post sleeve? As that is the only way the frame metal would cause damage. I can't believe that is the case. Take care Best regards Colin

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

Bromptons "are built to last". This is a very a long seat stem, which collects grit. Especially in the rain. Grit could go into the sleeve and start wearing the tube. The steel could also be there for the same reason of having laminated glass. When the stem breaks, ie in an accident, the steel prevents the broken stem from becoming a spear. That stem is long enough to skewered 2 cyclists.

Any idea how wide a gear range the new 4-speed derailleur can accommodate? I live someplace very hilly: 300% would be good. 163% is pretty low.

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

It's 163% but you can swap out the sprockets and chain rings.

@drpbstark

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks-I was wondering how large a rear sprocket the derailleur/frame can fit in the 4th position. Do you happen to know? Will it take a 24-tooth? More? I’ve read that the largest you can put in the 3rd position is 17 teeth or it hits the dropout/frame.

Hi James! Thank you for your very informative video. How do you see the gearing range of the T-line Urban (164%), compared with the C-line Explore (302%)?

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

300 per cent range would offer a 3:1 ratio. Pedalling in the highest gear would move you three times as far forward per pedal stroke as in the lowest gear. This means it can accommodate a wider range of road steepness and leg strengths. So this is great for touring. You can change each sprocket size and/or chain ring size to adjust your range. Sprockets cost $5 USD each. It's very easy to change them. I wouldn't decide on a bike, at such a huge price difference, for their gearing range alone. The price is mostly about it being lightweight.

@World-shopper

2 жыл бұрын

@@DrJamesT Thanks for your answer. Last questio :) Here in this area of Portugal we need this kind of ratio because there are lots of hills. Do you think that the reduced weight of the T-line compensate the wider ratio of the C-line 6 speed (with original sprockets)?

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

@@World-shopper Yes there's a great chance you will. Definitely test ride it before buying. It's 8kg vs 11 kg the weight of C-Line.

@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188

Жыл бұрын

@@World-shopper My SuperlightM6LXBrompton is now modified down to 9,35 kilo and I use it much on a hilly Island, also with serpentine roads. Going up I may walk once in a while, also passing tubes for cattle protection, as even the low gear is too high (I wouldn't have believed this!). But I like my 6 gears, and fine brakes when I go down again. Finn. Denmark

3:40 the bottom bracket section is not die cast. The launch video states 'casting' so I assume investment casting or somesuch.

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

My point is they are using casting vs welding tubes onto a plate to speed up and reduce cost of the manufacturing process

@deepindercheema4917

2 жыл бұрын

@@DrJamesT you said that because there was no weld line here ( cursor pointing at junc of down tube and bottom bracket) it implies injection moulding. What I saw on the launch film they stated it was cast because if it was welded from pieces it would make for a weaker structure - hence they went for casting. What type of casting I am assuming investment casting. Perhaps it is die cast which is same as injection moulding?

Just noticed that the rear triangle still has the hub gear cable pulley assembly mount meaning it’s still possible to use an internal hub gear to run 6 speed in which will defeat the purpose of being lightweight.

@SB-mr2nk

2 жыл бұрын

how does it defeat the entire frame being made of titanium annd carbon??

@gonzaga3c

2 жыл бұрын

@@SB-mr2nk I think he meant, defeat the object of being called lightweight if one would convert it back to 6 speed internal hub as they are significantly heavier and not to mention the addition of another shifter+gear cable.

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

Yup it's 980g for a 3 Speed BSR

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

Wondering if we can put an internal hub to create 3 x 4 speed bike.

Have to you heard of Hummingbird..? I own a Black edition 2018 , 6 speed Brompton and have reduced it 10,6 kilos. Still not lighter than the Hummingbird nor the Titanium version! What a pity both bikes are so expensive. But then, it is much cheaper but not the lightest bike on the market

Thank you for the great review, nice bike but way too expensive.lol

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

How about the price of P-line or C-line?

@kirkxu6348

2 жыл бұрын

@@DrJamesT I was thinking to buy a C line and convert it to Electric one.

I bought a P-Line. I see on KZread many videos with T-Line but not much on P-Line. Have I done a mistake by purchasing the P-Line?

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

You can't buy a T-line at the moment and it cost 2-3x more than the P-line.

@moniqueviau2702

2 жыл бұрын

@@DrJamesT thank you.

finally no square tapered BB.

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

Yep. Brompton been through so much drama on BB (google BB recall Brompton).

15mph-ish is only the legal limit on the speed limit that assistance can provide.

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

Correct.

I don't get who this Brompton edition is for. What benefit do you really gain from the 4kg shaved off? The relatively low weight reduction isn't going to have a huge effect on speed: a typical person might be moving 76kg instead of 80 so 5% less effort, or 5% faster with the same effort? Slightly easier to carry up and down stairs perhaps? I'm not particularly strong and have no issues carrying my 12kg Brompton up the stairs out of St Pancras Thameslink station. You take a durability hit with the carbon fibre parts, so it's less suited to being put in a train luggage rack. Or is it just a flex?

@deepindercheema4917

2 жыл бұрын

The weight saving is significant so less mass means going up hills better but the real boon is carrying the bicycle. The T Line has also been a design and engineering exercise or perhaps a 'chassis design' exercise which will translate into that magic carpet ride which the inventor has wanted all along. I still think effort should be made into the steel chassis and to get the main tube lighter in steel. The rear derailleur is only 60 grammes. ..amazing

@SingaporeUntold

2 жыл бұрын

Transportation, hills, acceleration, braking. More agile for urban setting. No rust. In terms of speed I feel it’s a compromise. Aero is more important. Stiffness as well in terms of efficiency. . I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a slower top speed bike compared to other models. I feel this bike will be quick not fast if you understand what I mean. You could take some tips from their design choices. I have found schwalbe one make a significant difference in speed. I have tubolitos in the mail. The problem with external gears is that the range isn’t as wide as bwr. I like the design of this derailleur because transportation in a hard case of a traditional derailleur will get beat up and even may bend. It’s one of the perks of an internal gear that you can bang up the bike. This design seems to protect the external derailleur or at least keep low profile.

To early to tell if there is problems. Best to hold off first.

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

1st batch is sold out. The 1st mass production batch should have the fixes. They promise to fix up the 1st batch.

2kg less 3000$ More What an achivement!

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

It's 3kg less and £2.7k more. C-line is 11kg at £1.2k vs T -lIne 8kg at £3.9

@SingaporeUntold

2 жыл бұрын

Cheaper to lose weight lol. But that titanium bling and status 😅

@fender1000100

4 ай бұрын

Doesn't matter how light they make bromptons. They are rubbish on steep hills. Sort out the gearing first.

Those welds look very suspect indicating poor craftsmanship ,hopefully after a year of testing they iron out all these shortcomings .

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

Who knew, this welding job, on a demo bike, ended the faith in British manufacturing.

I got to test ride this for a couple of hours today! I'll release my review in a few days. Feel free to Subz.

My 2019 SuperlightM6LXBrompton, with a titanium fork and back triangle, + titanium seat post and parts, for now weighs 8,75 kilos, with mudguards (Titanium struts, from the Factory, but "heavy-metal" clamps holding them! I have a carbon set for this) and upgraded parts. A little past the titanium model, so I have thought about changing the frame to an unoriginal titanium frame. But as a heavy man of a 100 kilo, I'm in doubt if an Asian made frame will be strong enough for me? My titanium seat post is standard length, but a little too short (My original was an extra long 600 mm post, but too long for an effective fold, so that's why I tried a shorter version. Finn. Denmark I expect to reach 8,50 kilo, when the Day of Summer in Denmark arrives, with the use of a lot of titanium parts from China, and for a much less price than a T-line!! Finn

It takes quite a surprising amount of effort to easily surpass a 15mph average on a Brompton.

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

The lighter the less effort. Try the 7.45kg brompton. With $4k you can get a 6.9kg road bike. The top Tour de france cyclists average speed is 25mph.

@waih98

2 жыл бұрын

A road bike is also vastly more aero than a Brompton.

@SingaporeUntold

2 жыл бұрын

Aero would be more important. The rider aero and position even more than the bike. Weight is more hill climbing and carrying it.

They replaced the AL crank arm with CF crank arm as well, for me I think CF crank arm is not good enough for everyday usage of the bike. Crank arm are prone to scratches and once the surface of the CF crank arm has scratch then it will begin to degrade and also the resin that bind the carbon fiber doenst age well like steel and might become brittle overtime. correct me if I am wrong

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent insight. For the sake of breaking the sub 8kg barrier they have turned the crank arm back into a consumable. In the old gen bromptons the crank arm was attached to the cog. Once the cog wore out you need to replace the whole thing.

@curl1ngs

2 жыл бұрын

Let's hope that doesn't happen to the Boeing dreamliner!

@DrJamesT

2 жыл бұрын

@@curl1ngs Dreamliners are well above the curb

@onebicycle3772

2 жыл бұрын

@@curl1ngs does the airline companies have annual check of their airplaines? Dont be literal you AH!

The design change options suck, they should have just done the complete fame in titanium and kept it the same design

@moniqueviau2702

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with your comment. I just think the same.

£4k. No thanks

You assume the "T" in "T Line" stands fir "Titanium." Who said yanks were thick?

I've been riding this bike for about a month kzread.infoUgkxwC0IIeIomGQVeBWg-kKJaToZkLEFIA2W and a half now and I think it's fantastic. It helps me get to work on time every day since I'm able to fit it inside of public transportation rush hour. The price is great too, people are always shocked when they ask me how much I paid for the fold up and I tell them "200". It's easy to fold and installation when it ships is insanely easy. All you have to install when the bike arrives is one foot pedal, everything else is done for you. I do recommend you carry some sort of wrench to tighten any loose screws on the handle bar and seat whenever they get a little bit loose. Other than that I think it's a fantastic bike. Easily fits in the home, can fit inside a car trunk and can even fit in subway rush hour.

Post Publication Analysis. Make sure you use a metal fork (ideally steel) if you plan adding an electric motor there. Carbon breaks instead of bending. www.bustedcarbon.com/ -I heard their hinge clamps self align.