Here is the Link for the FRA comments about the Buy America Wavier (This ends at midnight EST today the 25th!): www.regulations.gov/document/FRA-2023-0099-0001/comment?sortBy=postedDate&sortDirection=desc Generally make comments that contain: - Please consider the Waiver - Expand the US’s HSR capabilities vs hamper it - Allow Brightline to stay on schedule - Be Polite

@troyh1025

5 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing this great piece of information so that we as the public can comment. I posted my comment. 😊

It feels ironic that Wabtec want to establish a monopoly (where only signalling tech developed by them is used) by calling ERTMS a monopoly, rather than holding a competitive tender. It's not even like it's just one company that develops ERTMS.

@bojstojsa7574

6 ай бұрын

Yes, ERTMS is more like a standard as opposed to one product. Different companies produce ERTMS based products.

@Skullair313

6 ай бұрын

@@bojstojsa7574 to be fair, Siemens and Alstom have the most prevalent ERTMS-Systems. However, the secifications are public and there are a few companies like Stadler that have their own systems. From an interoperability point of view, using ERTMS in the USA makes little sense, assuming "PTC" is also a unified standard interoperable with each other. If all of the US is required to use this standard under the PTC mandate, that makes probably more sense. If PTC is always a tailored solution and thus not usable nationwide: Interoperability to ERTMS is possible implemented relatively easily. Many legacy "class B systems" are integrated or interfaced with ERTMS units today

@RTSRafnex2

6 ай бұрын

Absolutely. ETCS is vendor-independent. So Wabtec could simply manufacture and offer its own balises. There is no reason that would prevent an American supplier from offering ETCS parts themselves.

@mrvwbug4423

6 ай бұрын

ERTMS is an open standard if I recall. Wabtec could make its own ERTMS equipment if it wanted.

@davidty2006

6 ай бұрын

For a company thats known for making air brakes.....

will definitely make a comment. love this - basically "stop the damn bureaucracy bullshit that's choking our infrastructure development you assholes" but in a nicer tone

European dude here, so can't really participate, but the US needs ERTMS. Also, another argument. Developing export ready technology in the US. ERTMS is everywhere, and if you can't make parts compatible with it you're toast.

@jfungsf882

6 ай бұрын

Actually you can submit a comment even if you don't live in the US, just make sure you select the country of your residence towards the bottom as you go through it. The part Alan was showing at 6:46 just change the country from United States to whatever country you live in and then it should be good.

Interesting - ERTMS is coming to Toronto for GO Expansion. Would be great to see it expand across the USA too.

@lightningphoenix69

6 ай бұрын

Absolutely. Standardization helps everyone. 👍🏽

@IndustrialParrot2816

6 ай бұрын

Id make what I'm going to call NASPTC that's compatible with ERTMS

@jfolz

6 ай бұрын

@@IndustrialParrot2816 just copy the specs and call it North American Train FREEDOM System. They'll lap it up.

I love these kinds of videos. I think a lot of people watching transit KZread struggle to engage with activism for transit. Giving us a simple targeted action we can take helps us start getting involved instead of just bingeing videos. I already left my comment.

@seank176

6 ай бұрын

Exactly. So many transit and urban planning content doesn't really help anyone. They just point out problems while offering no potential solutions or ways to get involved with changing things.

@beastbike4570

6 ай бұрын

Facts

Worth noting that today is the last day that comments are accepted! Get them written and submitted!

This is a certified Wabtec moment

Need more videos like this from the urbanist YTubers. Top ten lists and covering rail projects is great but advocacy and demonstrating how the public can support projects like BLW is how to get these projects done sooner rather than later.

Hey Alan just to clarify at 6:46 you said that "only US residents" can make a comment, but that same section you're showing allows a person to choose another country and based on that it look like anyone regardless of one's country of residence can submit a comment. Whether it gets approved is another story.

I just did my part and submitted a public comment urging the FRA to approve and grant the waiver for Brightline West😉👍💯

Just sent in my comment as a San Diegan standing in solidarity with other Southern Californians!

This is a certified Wabtec moment, especially since every corporation ever has decided that the solution to any bump in the economic road is solved with layoffs. Wabtec had a delay in the batteries in one of their electric locomotives and lots of employees got laid off. It's WAY past time to start thinking about the people before the corporations.

Thanks for the heads up. Not every policy and project should need to address every single problem. The policy issue Brightline West addresses is inefficient and environmentally damaging transportation options between Vegas and LA. This is an extremely underfunded part of our transportation mix already. It should not also have to develop or prop up inferior industry in the US.

In the event you see this: FRA added more comme ts, including Members of Congress and some senators. When looking at the comments, sert them by newest first because the 20 page limit does not allow you to go past comment 500 of 635 ! (this is about the waiver request to get foreign systems for Brightline West.

Posted and it's the first time I have been able to take part in something so important. Please continue to post ways for us to be involved, thank you.

That's just nuts, even China uses some kind of ETCS and CTCS is compatible with ETCS. I'm sorry to my American friends out here but don't invent the wheels twice and rely on the very heavy trains in case of collisions that's stupid

@IndustrialParrot2816

6 ай бұрын

The Heavyweight trains aren't going anywhere European trains can't handle hitting a semi truck on the daily

@yizhouwang3645

6 ай бұрын

@@IndustrialParrot2816 but it will never hit a semi if you're grade seperated

@IndustrialParrot2816

6 ай бұрын

@@yizhouwang3645 now tell me does the entire EU have more than several hundred million grade crossings?

@RTSRafnex2

6 ай бұрын

@@IndustrialParrot2816 tell me you don't know a thing about EN 15227 without telling me...

@qjtvaddict

6 ай бұрын

@@IndustrialParrot2816HSR has no grade crossings no need as they will be no collisions

Completely support union labor. Not only are construction jobs important but so are the hospitality jobs in Vegas and LA that will benefit when this is done. Making sure the project happens should be a priority.

@Pystro

6 ай бұрын

Additionally, I'm preeeeety sure that Siemens jobs in Germany (assembling the first two trains) would be unionized. (Judging from the unionization culture in Germany and the nature of those jobs.) I don't know where Brightline west would purchase the ETCS components, but if they come from Europe, there's a high probability that they will be union jobs as well.

@Eaglescout217

6 ай бұрын

​@@Pystro plus Siemens wants to train American workers on how to build their new high speed trains for a new High speed focused factory

@pirazel7858

6 ай бұрын

@@Pystro While the equipment will be made in Europe, american workers will install and maintain the equipment

@cooltwittertag

6 ай бұрын

@@PystroSiemens has a very good recent history and reputation among engineers for their pay and benefits here in germany. There's entire family trees who've been working at siemens and have lived off of retirement benefits and siemens healthcare

@raaaaaaaaaam496

6 ай бұрын

No. Unions are famously xenophobic assholes.

The FRA Waiver has now been granted. Thanks to Alan for making this originally known to people to leave comments. Bringeth the Siemens Velaro Novo aka American Pioneer 220 and the European signaling, etc.

I’d love a Brookville High Speed train.

I think it's worth noting that the NEC should also acquire ERTMS, just think how easy it is to maintain the high speed rail over there. Especially with the new Acela trainsets since I've heard said sets are still experiencing technological difficulties. I don't have much knowledge on ERTMS so correct me if I'm mistaken.

@sm6allegro

6 ай бұрын

The problems with the Avelia Liberty have more to do with the poor track condition on the NEC (or Alstom's incapability to model it in their predictive maintenance software). I don't think ACSES (the PTC system used on the NEC) is causing any major issues here.

@mrvwbug4423

6 ай бұрын

ACSES isn't causing the issues in the NEC. The unsuitability of the track for high speed operations is the issue, most of the line needs to be rebuilt to high speed standards. I'm not expecting LGV corridors across the northeast, that will never happen in the megalopolis, but at least getting the NEC up to a German ICE level system where you have decent stretches where high speed can be sustained with stretches on regular track between high speed corridors and trains dropping off the high speed line when approaching stations so they can use city center stations. The ICE model would actually work really well for the Eastern US. Rolling stock that handles lots of speed changes is needed for that too, basically like the German ICE trains or the older generations Acelas, both have extremely powerful brakes and very fast acceleration for a HST, TGVs on the other hand accelerate like molasses and have weak brakes, they rely on starting their braking sequence 10km in advance of a stop, an ICE can haul itself down from 300km/h in less than 2km without going into emergency and the Acela can comfortably brake from 150mph in about 1.5mi.

@TheBleggh

2 ай бұрын

There are still freight movements on portions of the NEC, so whatever signalling system is used needs to be able to accommodate that.

To clarify, ETCS is mandated in the EU for high-speed rail by the TSI CCS and is eventually to be rolled out across the European rail network in due course. Switzerland and Luxembourg are so far the only countries to have completed ETCS rollout on their networks, and even that is mostly just replacing their legacy train protection systems with ETCS Level 1 on top of their existing lineside signalling systems.

@Daneelro

6 ай бұрын

A little correction: ETCS is mandated for all non-isolated rail lines, but the migration rules are stronger for high-speed lines. All new or upgraded high-speed lines are to get ETCS, while for the rest of the network, member states are reqired to make 20-year migration plans.

@drdewott9154

6 ай бұрын

Yeah. My home country of Denmark is currently on track to be the first to fully deploy ETCS Level 2 across its whole mainline network by 2030. The only exceptions will be the Copenhagen S-bahn (which uses CBTC) and a small number of regionally owned branch lines with generally low speed limits and short stubend routes.

@mrvwbug4423

6 ай бұрын

I think only the international high speed lines are using ETCS fully at this point. Domestic LGV lines are still on TVM which is ETCS level 0 (speed enforcement, no braking curves) compliant. In Germany I think all the 300km/h ICE lines have ETCS, other ICE lines are still on LZB, which isn't a big deal is LZB is ETCS level 2 compliant (partial ATO when locked into LZB). I've heard the high speed lines in Spain and Italy still primarily use LZB with only the international lines using ETCS. Obviously converting an LZB line to ETCS is a low priority compared to lines on older signaling systems.

@sm6allegro

6 ай бұрын

@@mrvwbug4423 that's not true. Re: Spain: Only the Madrid-Seville line uses LZB and is currently being converted to ETCS. Later lines all have ETCS. Re: France: Starting with LGV Est, all new LGVs are fitted with both TVM 430 and ETCS. LGV Sud-Est is currently being converted to ETCS to improve capacity. Re: Germany: Starting with Leipzig-Erfurt, all new lines >160 km/h are being fitted with ETCS and LZB is no longer installed new.

@gabrielstravels

6 ай бұрын

Italy also has ETCS on its HSR

*An update:* The number of comments has gone from 59 to over 200 comments in a single day. Check your comment as its probably been posted. Also *Alan Fisher's* comment is up too 😉👍💯 Also there are a lot of comments in support for this waiver even before this video was published😉👍💯

I'm looking forward to seeing Alan Fisher's comment on that website.

Submitted my comment - thank you for making a video with such a clear call to action!

As terrible as it would be, it would be so fitting for the US for this project to get merked by corporate interests. This country is so disfunctional.

Shit, I only saw this now. I'd have also brought up the GPS based system being a security concern given what you said about a jammer. Then there's also the fact that Canada is implementing the eu standard in Ontario soon

Thank you for this very actionable content!

Here is my comment: The Buy America requirements should be waived in this case. Blocking this waiver would essentially skew any bidding process in favor of Alstom for train manufacturing and Wabtec in terms of signaling train control. This has the potential to negatively impact Brightline West, on which the success of future passenger and high-speed rail ultimately rests. Alstom's arguments that waivers should not granted represent a blatant attempt to monopolize the market for high-speed rail equipment. With the extreme delays with the Avelia Liberty trainsets for service in the Northeast Corridor, Alstom has so far shown itself to be unsatisfactory in producing high-speed trains that are capable are reliable regular service in North America. Alstom likely seeks to block this waiver to cover for their poor performance in the American market. It is completely reasonable that the government should relax its regulations to allow other manufacturers such as Siemens, CAF, Talgo, Steadler, Hitachi, etc to produce the trains abroad to expedite production time. (It would of course be reasonable to exclude companies from China) If these models prove successful, these companies can easily begin to manufacture them in the US under the Buy America Law. In the long term, granting the waiver would likely result in additional competition, meaning would lower prices for high-speed trainsets, essential if the US is to create more high-speed rail routes. Conversely, if the waiver is not given, Alstom will likely be given the contract. If the trainsets for Brighline West have the same problems as on the Northeast Corridor, the success of Brighline West could be compromised, and it could kill the prospect of additional high-speed rail projects in the United States. This would result, ironically, in fewer opportunities for jobs to be created, in the long term, with the construction of high-speed trains in the United States. Similarly, as for the arguments for Wabtec, Brightline West should be able to decide for itself which signaling system is best to use. There is a plausible argument to be made that ERTMS train control is superior to the train control offered by Wabtec, and has been widely deployed on high-speed rail systems across Europe and Asia. As Wabtec does not offer a system with the superior benefits of ERMTS (notably with information being relayed to the train via ground-based systems rather than less reliable satellite-based systems, the regulations should be waived. If ERTMS systems prove superior, it would provide an incentive for Wabtec to begin offering such systems across the country as well as for foreign manufacturers to begin manufacturing the technology in the US. In essence, the Buy American Acts have ignored the reality that US rail manufacturing has declined since its passage (due to lack of government subsidies for or for public transportation). As a result, as we finally try to catch up to the rest of the world in terms of transit and high-speed rail, it is necessary to relax our regulations to allow more advanced foreign technology into the US. Once more advanced railcars and signaling systems have jumped and started the growth of more transit across the US, foreign manufacturers will be compelled to offer advanced products in the US, and US manufacturers will be compelled to diversify their products. Companies opposing the waivers do not have the long-term concerns of American labor or transportation in mind. Their primary motivation is their short-term bottom line. Please accept Brightline West´s request to waive Buy America requirements for these trainsets.

@williamhuang8309

6 ай бұрын

Change "high speed trains" to "trains" Their trains are reliability nightmares in general

Comment submitted! Thank you so much for calling out this opportunity with this video.

As a subscriber to the main Alan Fisher channel, I found this to be an informative video. Now, I know what Wabtec is doing to try to impose its signalling system on Brightline West, and why Brightline should instead use ERTMS, the European signalling system. Thanks for the video! I'll subscribe to this channel as well!

"Two very trustworthy companies" Meanwhile, 'cross the pond in Romania, *the brand spanking new alstom coradia trains had a short circuit in their transformer on the first day of testing.*

Thank you for making this video. This is my first time being active in this community. I was pretty happy with the comment I wrote up: “Hello, my comment to the Federal Railroad Administration is to not get caught up in the tangle of frail formalities in this pivotal time for transportation. Please allow Brightline to use the equipment and manufacturers that they see fit. A proven signal system to ensure reliability. Rolling stock that’ll last the test of time ensuring reliability and lower maintenance cost. Allowing Brightline the freedom to make these decisions benefits us as a nation. With the world’s eyes on us during the olympics we can prove that world class high speed rail is possible here. These companies and the city commenting here clearly have their business interests in mind and would sacrifice the reliability and timeliness of this project for profit. Help us sprint to the future instead of crawl. In simpler terms the people want choo choos that go woosh! and frankly it’s been long deserved.”

Thanks for making this video! I submitted my comment and passed this along.

Alstom is Alstoming again, what a surprise!

The funny thing is, that wabtec is also very active in europe. They have bought companies that manufacture passenger information systems and brakes. It got so bad, that rail companies start to develop these systems themselfes, because they can do it better.

@RTSRafnex2

6 ай бұрын

They have also bought Faiveley, which manufactures pantographs, among other things. Pantographs... the irony.

@mrvwbug4423

6 ай бұрын

Pretty sure Webtec monpoly is why all US locomotives have the "big red lever" even when other systems work better. Prime example is German brakes have had an automatic hold function since the 80s, brakes will not release until power is applied. Even on the most modern US locomotives you have to add power as the brakes release to prevent rollback. Though Wabtec may be having sour grapes at Alstom over the Avelia as I do believe the Avelia liberty uses a combined power/brake handle so probably Alstom's own braking system.

in France we almost don't use ERTMS because our governments don't fund rail network enough to just maintain it in a good condition ^^' (so upgrading it is just a good dream for now)

@mrvwbug4423

6 ай бұрын

I'm not sure ERTMS would play nice with the TGVs, how do you do a braking curve on a train which treats brakes like a subtle suggestion at speed? There's a reason why the TVM step down sequence starts at up to 10km out from a stop, It would probably take around 4km to emergency stop a TGV from 320km/h, an ICE3 can go from 320km/h to full stop in about 2km without going into emergency.

@paulgrougnie7028

6 ай бұрын

@@mrvwbug4423 what is the reason for that?

@Skullair313

24 күн бұрын

The ICE 3 is lighter and can use Eddy-current brakes. It does have less capacity though. Many TGVs arreequipped with ETCS already, implementation is not a problem, especially since Alstom makes both TVM and ETCS systems. The KVB / TVM system are even based on simmilar hardware.

Done! Hoping the FRA will allow the waiver🤞🙏

Ah. The Boeing solution of bolting on cheap inferior shit in response to innovative proven engineering. Excellent. This will be great for public reception of rail transport.

@mrvwbug4423

6 ай бұрын

Only Boeing would have the audacity to use a bunch of band-aid fixes to attempt to create a modern airliner out of a 1960s platform that had numerous design features that are incompatible with modern air travel. The 737 was designed to be a short haul 100 seat airliner for operating out of airports with minimal infrastructure, not a 200 seat main line airliner with transatlantic range. The NG was really the practical limit of the design, the MAX is just pushing it past the point of being safe. The NG at least still has inherently safe flight characteristics and doesn't require a software program to compensate for an unstable engine/wing design, software which will lawn dart the aircraft if it malfunctions.

This country does a fantastic job of getting in its own way. Thanks for this. I'm submitting my comments now. We need to be a mob on this. That LV-LA railway has been delayed for far too long.

@qjtvaddict

6 ай бұрын

More like all the time 😊

Comment sent. Thanks for informing us.

I'm highly sceptical of private railroad companies, I hate Las Vegas with a passion, and I don't even live in the US! But I do think this is important. I live in Canada, and the best thing we can muster is Via's HFR proposal. What we need is true high speed rail, and maybe, JUST maybe, Brightline will prove to Parliament that yes, HSR is good, actually. So thank you for this informative video; I just submitted a comment to the notice.

@qjtvaddict

6 ай бұрын

Build maglev

@mrvwbug4423

6 ай бұрын

@@qjtvaddict No, Maglev is an insanely expensive pipe dream. You can build multiple conventional high speed lines for the cost of one maglev line. The Shanghai maglev is an insanely expensive vanity project that China didn't even pay for, they conned the west into building it for them because "poor poor developing nation China needs an insanely expensive vanity project", meanwhile they built the worlds largest HSR network though depending on which information sources you trust (Chinese state media says its perfect, other media sources are more skeptical) it is plagued with safety and reliability problems because like everything else in China they massively cut corners in building it.

I am seeing this a day late. This line is where I live at. I hope for the best for high speed rail in the west coast, for we need it.

Alstom's Hormel factory also has a big order of SEPTA trolleys. Which may even grow if SEPTA exercises their options for more

Over 280 comments, good job guys!

I think my comment is late but I added one anyway.

@CJbrinkman602

6 ай бұрын

Same

Straight up. Won't Siemens still be made in America since there is an American plant in California?

@CJbrinkman602

6 ай бұрын

Yes, but due to back orders the first sets are going to be made in Germany

@Eaglescout217

6 ай бұрын

Well it's more that the Sacramento factory doesn't have the space and will need to build a new one just for High speed rolling stock. Instead Brightline West and hopefully CHSRA rolling stock will be built in Nevada.

I LOVE LOBBYING I LOVE BLOCKING CRITICAL LEGISLATION BECAUSE I MIGHT LOSE $10 BUCKS God sometimes I hate our government

Saturday very AM update: comments received up to 591. Onl 286 posted. They haven,t processed any on Friday. Wonder if this is it and whoever was assigned task of processing entries ended the task at 17:00 on Thursday and the unprocessed rest will never be seen by anyone.

Is this why we haven’t heard that they’ve broken ground and started construction for Brightline West? If that makes sense

Friday 14:40 update: 430 comments were received by FRA, but only 286 published so far (unchanged since last evening). Your comment is up, but mine isn't.

@jamesphillips2285

6 ай бұрын

The deadline was "today" whenever the video was recorded. You may have missed deadline.

@jfmezei

6 ай бұрын

The deadline was the 25th at midnight easten. I submitted well before. The number of accepted entries stopped moving at 17:00 on the 25th. (though 2 more from serious lobbyists were added this weekend). @@jamesphillips2285

WOW ridiculous!! Maybe these companies should put on their big boy hats and grow up. I’m sick of companies and government interfering with needed things for this country.

Thiers no way it could be pure GPS location system, high speed right aways have to maintain some sort of redundant back up at a minimum a CTC block system.

@mrvwbug4423

6 ай бұрын

ERTMS uses short range GSM-R radio plus magnetic sensors in the track, if the radio goes out it fails back to level 0 which still allows speed enforcement and PTC, which is enough for high speed operations in France haha. The next closest system in capability is the German LZB system, which uses a continuous sensor wire in the track to have constant real time monitoring of the train position and fails back to the older PZB system if it fails (PZB has PTC and some degree of speed enforcement but only allows a max speed of 160km/h)

please make more of these kind of important activism videos!

This is gonna be a long one, really even i can come up with a counterpoint to Wabtec: You can retrofit a train with multiple signaling systems

Alstom, the company that needed another company (Kawasaki) to bail them out when tasked with building the R160As, wants to block Siemens from getting this order. Alstom, the company that clearly didn't think it important enough to factor the Northeast Corridor into a train design _despite building sets meant to run on that very corridor,_ wants to have a monopoly on Brightline West's rolling stock. Why should we trust Alstom, again?

@jfmezei

6 ай бұрын

The Avelia Liberty is a monstruosity caused by the FRA and Amtrak. It is a mix of the new TGV locomotive from Avelia Horizon (TGV-M) and Pendolino coaches but all modified to fit american rules and "made in America" components. Only the lower speed Pendolinos have tilting since no true high speed train has tilting since the tracks are done properly to avoid need. Amtrak is paying the cost of a 1 off design that will have a total sale of 28 trains for all the cost of desiginng, testing, buiding tooling etc. This is how the USA works. Wabtec is the telling case: instead of developping an ERTMS system it could export and sell plenty of , it wants to restrict Brightline to its legacy PTC kludge as an add-on t legacy signalling a system sold to a few railways in USA and 0 export potential. So in this case "made in america" is rewarding US companies to keep their legacy products on life support. And if Wabtec needs to make major changes to its product to include full signaling and ability to run at high speed instead of slow freight trains (and where stopping takes 6-7 blocks for high speed train) then its product will also be a new untested product full of bugs. Dictating steel didn't save Budd who insisted rail cars should be made of steel (Budd was primarily a steel company). Instead, the USa is stuck with Acela built like tanks bcause so heavy. At least the FRA relented and allowed aluminium shell again as well a jacobs bogies.

@mrvwbug4423

6 ай бұрын

@@jfmezei There are tilting HSTs out there, but Acela and Avelia Liberty are the only active tilt that I know of. If I remember correctly the ICE3s (Siemens Velaro) have a passive tilt as do the Talgos, they tilt but with a much simpler mechanism and significantly less tilt than the active tilt of the Acela and Pendolinos. To be fair the aggressive tilt on the Pendolino was purpose built for the tight curves of the UK WCML and uses a specific control system called TASS that uses trackside equipment to engage/disengage the tilt. The 390 is also not being used as a high speed train because the UK was too cheap to upgrade their signaling, it is capable of high speed operation however.

@MarioFanGamer659

6 ай бұрын

@@mrvwbug4423 You're probably thinking of the ICE T which is the ICE 3's predecessor and none of the (short) research showed me that there is any Velaro with tilting technology.

@lars7935

5 ай бұрын

@@MarioFanGamer659 Some Shinkansen use tilting by adaptively adjusting their pneumatic suspension. It only gives small tilt angles. Specifically they use it on the Atami curve on the Tokaido shinkansen. They are reaching 200km/h on a 1500m curve radius. It's also planned for use on the Tohoku shinkansen once that is cleared for 360 km/h operation

@MarioFanGamer659

5 ай бұрын

@@lars7935 Yeah but we're talking specifically about the Velaro, not the Shinkansen. Note that I didn't rebuke the tilting of Talgo carriages.

GPS has a pace on trains on as a back up only.

Comment submitted!

Brightline has since selected Siemens

Written and submitted!

Welp, all done. Let's see what happens.

Brightline West should be built AT least NOT just CHSR since their are so close to starting construction.

@IndigiAutisi

6 ай бұрын

Makes no sense why bright line west isn't closely connected with CAHSR

@Daniel-hj8el

6 ай бұрын

@@IndigiAutisi Sould of kept going to LA but oh well their is Metrolinx connection Rancho to Union Station.

Alstom: You'll be going nowhere.

Alstom out here saying that Siemens will either have to delay the manufacturing or import the sets… but they can’t make a deadline for any of their projects

Choo Choo man is talking!!!!

Comment made telling them there is precedent for allowing us to not have an American market yet. We did it back in the beginning of the railroad until we built up our own domestic rail companies. This will have the same effect.

Why can’t the US, Canada and Europe not agree that buying from each other is okay. I am happy to buy American as a German if it has the most competitive offer. I am saying that typing in my iPad. Maybe let’s stop producing in China as long as there human rights stuff is the way it is and let’s produce in North America or Europe.

plus Siemens wants to build a high speed rail rolling stock factory in Nevada which would lead to more jobs

@mrvwbug4423

6 ай бұрын

That would likely materialize in time for CAHSR if they go with Siemens, Brightline is wanting to move faster than that, and getting Siemens Velaros up and running in the US would go a long way towards justifying that factory.

That's pretty hilarious to say this can "showcase" for 2028. Linking our entertainment and technology hubs is much more important for visitors to get more. NY to DC creates dual purpose. Las Vegas is popular for conferences

Thank you for this. Bring on the Siemens Velaros! Alstom (and Wabtec) are afraid. Anyone knows the giant footprint the Siemens Velaro has, operating in over 7 countries in the world. Give me the Velaro Novo/American Pioner 220. Hell, I'd take a ICE 3neo over the Avelia with all the stuff going on with that for Amtrak.

@mrvwbug4423

6 ай бұрын

The Velaro is literally the most popular high speed train in the world. It's smooth, reliable and very proven and Siemens constantly updates it. The Avelia is literally Alstom learning how to TGV again from scratch, as SNCF has gone literally 20 years without a new TGV rolling stock design, the late 90s/early 00s 200 series still does the vast majority of the TGV service. The 200 series is extremely heavy, has very slow acceleration, weak brakes, and no provisions for ATO. Meanwhile ICE trains have always had a form of ATO that is always used when operating over 160km/h

I bet this project will fall apart just because private companies hate quarterly losses

"European standards" are better then our own.

@qjtvaddict

6 ай бұрын

Yes

Because of you, I submitted my comments. They were too long to fit so had to create a PDF document. It is ironic that Alstom wants to sell it non-high speed kludge to Brightline (mixture of TGV-M loco, Pendolino coaches and US components). Privatre industry woudl much prefer getting a real Avelia from europe from a tested manufacturing plant using tested components. But the minute you get federal funds, teh "Buy America" kicks in with ancient FRA rules that result in the need to create a totally new train for every sale since each much be custmized to meet those requirements. The signaling by Wabtech is egregious since PTC is meant to be an add on to legacy signalling whicl this is a greenfield and ERTMS provides the full solution, not just an add on to prevent overspeed (which still needs signalling underneath al that).

Commented

I just submitted a comment. I didn't think about this when writing my comment, but it's worth noting that the first locomotives used on American railroads were imported from Britain. This is no different.

@mrvwbug4423

6 ай бұрын

It explains way more things than you could possibly imagine. Probably also why US trains power and brake levers work the opposite of logic, as do UK trains (basically pull towards you to go, push away from you to stop), I suspect that is a holdover of the steam era where you would pull the regulator towards you to increase power from the boiler, and push the brake levers forward to apply brakes.

Siemens' Pioneer 220 trainsets are superior too. Does Alstrom's Avelia trainsets have party cars? No. Are they deployed worldwide in countless countries? No.

Also why doesn’t wanted partner with ERMTS instead of fighting it

@mrvwbug4423

6 ай бұрын

Because they want to keep a government enforced monopoly so they can sell their legacy garbage at a much higher price than an ERTMS system. The open standard is why ERTMS can be fairly affordable because lots of companies can make stuff for it so you have competition.

Just copy the specs and call it North American Train FREEDOM System. That should do it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but arent the new Acelas from Alstom plagued by issues? So much for reliable and proven manufactor lol

It won’t be blocked

@alanfisherextras

6 ай бұрын

Well lets really make sure that's the case

@gumbyshrimp2606

6 ай бұрын

@@alanfisherextrasI did my part 🫡

Geez, I never imagined Wabtec and Alstom could get this selfish. I haven’t had a positive outlook on Alstom eversince they messed up with the Acela 2’s

I’m generally in favor of buy-American, but come on. This is literally just going to make the project a not-high speed rail.

@mrvwbug4423

6 ай бұрын

I'm in favor of buy American for government entities, not private companies. Brightline should be able to source from whoever makes the most compelling bid, that is the entire point of competition. Alstom wants a government enforced monopoly of high speed rolling stock like they have in France (Alstom might as well be an extension of SNCF).

Wrote mine

The FRA needs to be dissolved

Typical Wall Street, Typical!

A bit of grammatical persnickety-ness: its is the possessive, it's is a contraction meaning it is. It helps if you read it in its non-contraction manner to make sure it's correct.

Comment for Boosting from a non US-Citizen

Well... ACSES??😅

@alanfisherextras

6 ай бұрын

ACSES is limited because of the scale of infrastructure needed for its operations. I'd be very surprised if its ever used outside of the NEC

Do you have to be a US citizen or are all residents allowed to comment?

@jfungsf882

6 ай бұрын

Looks like anyone is allowed to submit a comment regardless of country of residence

That is some excellent capitalism there. Instead of building a better, more competitive product, simply lobby the Government to block the international competition with vague assertions of Jobs, Investments & Innovations. Then do none of that stuff because, why would you when there are no other options. 10/10 Wabtec & Alstom. No Notes. Also, Alstom would request for you ignore that the reason why Siemens might not have the capacity to build Brightline/CAHSR trainsets is because they've sold almost 400 Chargers to Amtrak & others compared to Alstom's 28 new Acela trains that don't work correctly because of dodgy software

@mrvwbug4423

6 ай бұрын

A free market isn't free when a company has a government enforced monopoly, i.e. Wabtec. ERTMS is an open standard, Wabtec could just make their own ERTMS system, but they can sell their legacy crap for more money. Meanwhile open standards, open access and competition has caused an explosion in high speed rail offerings in the EU.

ERTMS is the standard all over the world, the EU commission memo [MEMO/05/235] about ERTMS explain the advantages of this system. As a french socialist in the Alstom vs Siemens i am always concern that France did invest, and actually invented European HSR and been relegated behind Germany and Siemens that do not plan building true cross country HSR corridors while being at the very center of Europe. And as US GE has buy Alstom in a very wild and violent way that lead to the end of many union job in France, not having the contract in US feel a bit harsh.

@ft4709

6 ай бұрын

Oh boy, you do realize that Siemens, not unlike Alstom, is just a company that supplies trains, electrification and signaling, right? They literally have zero influence on which high speed rail projects are getting built. Besides, France didn’t “invent” European high speed rail (what does that even mean?). If any country could be credited as the inventor, it would have to be Italy.

@lars7935

6 ай бұрын

Germany is indeed building cross country HSR. It's being slow at that but it's very much happening. Also german settlement structure doesn't allow for the long distance straight line nonstop services France does.

Alstom is going the way of Lockheed was in the 60s shit and likes big bribes for European F104s . Granted the f104g was still a good design does not excuse how the F104 was procured by it”s export customers

@mrvwbug4423

6 ай бұрын

The F-104 sent a lot of pilots to an early grave, especially Luftwaffe pilots.

Well at least we've gotten to the point where we are talking about which train for Brightline West is best. Also Wabtec and Alstom's board are probably scheming on how to screw over your channel right now, what with this video and the Big Bill Hell spoof.

Honestly ERTMS already standard for most if not all High speed train in existed (well Japanese and Chinese High speed train have similar thing, they just integrated with more stuff like more early warning sensor for preventing accidents from earthquake and another natural disasters and just basically give it different name) Regardless, USA already far behind interm of High speed train network, and yet they still want to complicating thing by refusing to use ERTMS that EU Nations, Japan, China, Indonesia are using? Seriously?

@lars7935

6 ай бұрын

Japan doesn't use ERTMS but China does (kinda, it's a compatible system though)

@daviano_R.T.

6 ай бұрын

@@lars7935 yes, I did mess up for the Japanese one, thanks for correcting me

its worth mentioning that in my experience as a european, Alstom HSR trains SUCK. ICE trains running on french infrastructure are 1000 times more comfortable, quieter, accelerate faster and in my experience actually keep running at 320 kph consistently, which even the new TGV trains never manage to do. The Velaro trains are just overall much higher ride quality than Alstom trains.

fra sucks, If this actually goes through istg it will destroy a lot of stuff and people will loose a lot of money, jobs will be gone too.

Why is Brightline, who is a private company building a private rail line being forced into buy American requirements, which are supposed to only apply to government entities? And ERTMS is flat out better than I-ETMS or ACSES if the system installed is ETCS 2.0 compatible. Frankly nobody should be building a new rail line that isn't using a signaling/train control system that isn't at least up to the level of capability of ETCS 2.0 or LZB. ACSES is only at ETCS 1.0 level capability (can do speed enforcement and braking curves, but no ATO), supposedly Amtrak is trying to develop ACSES 2.0 that may have some level of ATO, at least ACSES doesn't rely on GPS and can be retrofitted onto almost any existing line as it uses the old pulse codes to determine signal state.

@jfmezei

6 ай бұрын

Because Brightline, unlike it PR, is to a large extent publicly funded, it must abide by public funding rules. In Montréal, the REM folks solved the problem by promisung to be fully privately funded, and once the order for "made in India" trains was placed and work to dismantle existing train services was done before point of no return, they then went to provincial and federal government t get billions in loans at which point it was too late to impose "made in Canada" rules. Brightline needed to have confirmed funding before proceeding because it depends on banks for loans. REM is drivern by a returement fund CDPQ who could have reduced the exagerated scope for their project should public funcing not have come through and let the government get the political hit for cutting back the project.

are you shure the etrms is not also gps based and probablt the eropean equivalent to gpsd what ever it is called.

@elperenza

6 ай бұрын

ETCS Level 2 uses radio for communications and a mix of radar, accelerometers and axle rotation counters mounted on the train and Eurobalises mounted on the track to know the position of the trains. There has been discussion of possibly using satellite positioning instead of balises though.

@mrvwbug4423

6 ай бұрын

@@elperenza If the GSM-R radio fails I think it just fails back to level 0, which is still sufficient for high speed operations in France as it's basically functioning like TVM at that point. Essentially level 0 = TVM, level 1 = ACSES, level 2 = LZB, level 3 = fully automated

@elperenza

6 ай бұрын

@@mrvwbug4423 Level 0 represents a train equipped with ETCS equipment travelling over a line not equipped with it. If there's a legacy safety system installed on the line, the train will use that. If there's no legacy safety system, the train is essentially left without any guidance and either needs to stop or proceed at very low speeds (

@elperenza

6 ай бұрын

@@mrvwbug4423 TVM is actually much closer to ETCS Level 2, as it lacks trackside signals

Still think maglev is a joke? It seems like a way to render these rules moot

"rely on european standards" good