One small detail about how he was chosen to finish the wheel of time: He actually never met Robert Jordan, nor did Jordan know of him before passing away. Brandon Sanderson wrote a eulogy on his blog after Jordan passed away, and it made its way to Harriet McDougal, Robert Jordan’s wife and editor. She picked him to finish the wheel of time very shortly after reading like the first chapter of mistborn

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

Wowww ! Ok that’s awesome, thanks for sharing

@eaptan

2 жыл бұрын

Brandon sanderson himself has talked about this. He says that he wasn't the best author and he wasn't the biggest wheel of time nerd. However it seemed like he was the best fusion of both

@stonewall01

2 жыл бұрын

I am very glad that she did too. I discovered Sanderson from his Wheel of Time novels. I really enjoyed them so I picked up the Mistborn Trilogy and he became my favorite author by far. I haven't read a book of his yet that I didn't like. I like some better than others of course but I haven't disliked any of them.

I interpreted Daniel Greene's comments on the "future of publishing" to be more referring to Sanderson's masterful use of social media to promote his works, including his youtube channel, not saying that the future of publishing is to have Sanderson-esque publishing cadence and to release sudden surprise books all the time.

@fayis4everlove

2 жыл бұрын

that's what I got from it as well. Brandon does put in a lot of work marketing himself. He does podcast, weekly updates and stuff. I listen to his podcast even though I only read 1 book from him years ago haha..

@MissCaraMint

2 жыл бұрын

Yes it’s defenetly the social media use to connect directly with fans and getting them hyped for his projects. Anyone who knows how social media works could potentially use this to promote their work. Honestly John Green also benefitted from this greatly. His books were good, but I would never have know about them if he didn’t have a presence on social media. I personally gave his books a go in the first place because I was familier with the Vlogbrother’s channel. Both are good at showing their process and meeting the goals they set. It makes people see them as dependable as well as good authors. These are things others absolutely can benefit from doing.

In his livestream, Brandon cleared up a few things that I think are relevant here. 1. Brandon, when he first got published, ensured he was able to do this (self-publish some books) in his contract. Right out the gate. Before he was famous. This has allowed him to have a ton of creative freedom with his books other authors simply don't have. I don't know everyone's contracts. But it's unlikely an SJM can just say "I'm going to self-publish this year." or "I'm not selling on Amazon this year." 2. He wants to reduce dependency on Amazon. He said it makes up about 80% of his book sales, and while he isn't anti-Amazon, he is concerned about that level of dependency. So he's testing publishing outside of that bubble. I do hope authors are paying attention. No, almost no one could break records like Brandon just did. But most authors should take note that when they're negotiating their contracts to fight for this level of freedom.

@breadordecide

2 жыл бұрын

It you are unknown its their way or the highway. Unless you wrote the next bible and they MUST buy it.

@brees3

2 жыл бұрын

@@breadordecide clearly not true as Sanderson did it with his very first contract. That said, I imagine it thoroughly depends on your agent and the publisher you end up going with.

A lot of authors aren't full time authors and so to say this should be the future of the publishing industry feels like adding yet another barrier to entry for new authors and putting even more on the plates of established authors. Projects like this and having a KZread channel are very labor intensive and if you have another job besides writing, I can imagine a lot of people being like y'all I just wanted to write books, I didn't sign up for all this extra work. Some people might want to do those things, but it shouldn't become a requisite for success in the industry. And let's be real, publishing is not gonna make the investment unless the author already makes them a lot of money.

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

So true. It’s so much work to just write, all the rest too?

@brees3

2 жыл бұрын

Completely! I think Daniel thinks this is the future because this is the path he himself is trying to use to become an author. It's not everyone's path. I do think what authors should take away from this is that Brandon can only do this because he fought to have this level of freedom in his contracts before he ever published anything. That's something I think every author should fight for.

@geminidragonreads

2 жыл бұрын

@@brees3 Yes! Yes! Yes! I wish more authors would take more control over there own work! Especially when they gain recognition and get adapted. It kills me that authors just seemingly, to me anyway, almost give up their stories they worked so hard. I don’t know if they’re desperate for money or what, but I wish more people would at least fight for their works.

@maurinet2291

2 жыл бұрын

@@geminidragonreads It's more like they don't read the fine print of their contracts, or understand it. Or hire a knowledgeable person if they don't understand.

Indie author weighing in: Brandon's idea wouldn't work for us little guys. I've been on KZread for years. I promote my work as best I can, and still I'm an unknown. No one is gonna pay for an upcoming book of mine because they have no idea who I am. Publishing doesn't need more ways to keep the little guys out.

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

It definitely wouldn’t work for everyone or most authors

@nedboy8370

2 жыл бұрын

Well, you'd have to put in the work he does to get the results he gets. You get out of life what you put into it. Of course it won't work for people who don't work as hard or have the resources to work as hard. But you can definitely take notes from him in every regard on how to be more successful. More online presence, more books, better time management, but mostly - MORE HARD WORK.

@JulianGreystoke

2 жыл бұрын

@@nedboy8370 Brandon himself acknowledges the advantages he has that have led him to success. But no. Sure. People who aren't as successful as him just aren't working hard enough and there are no other factors. 🙄

@britwww

2 жыл бұрын

Back in my father’s day you could just do all the cocaine you want and bang out a bunch of books to relative success. Now you have to be a pristine micro-influencer to even get people to consider looking at your work. I call BS 🙄

@LisatheWeirdo

2 жыл бұрын

@@nedboy8370 as an indie author myself, it's laughable when people say more hard work. Do you expect us not to sleep? We work our asses off. Some have great time management, but are still unknown. You do know that publishing does also include some serious luck, right? Then top it off with becoming a popular author like Brandon Sanderson. Literally, famous authors talk about how it's rare to become like them.

We can't force authors to be social media stars. Many of them have day jobs, are parents alongside being an author. Brandon Sanderson is fortunate enough to have a team and successful enough to not have to think about a normal day job

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly, it’s too much work to expect from everyone

@KaiInMotion

2 жыл бұрын

Not only are some of us too busy, some of us just aren't interested. I like using social media to share my art but I'm a little more reserved about sharing myself. But we're forced to market ourselves as a product anyway because that's the game and that's the industry. Your personality has to be made into a brand and be marketable. It's challenging and exhausting and has given a lot of us nervous breakdowns before we gain our bearings and decide how present we're able or willing to be.

@nedboy8370

2 жыл бұрын

Fortunate isn't the right word. We're talking about one of the hardest working authors of all time. He built his own empire. The lesson to be learned is that writers need to work harder on being successful if they want to be successful. Everyone on this planet should be taking notes from this guy, not just authors.

@moniqueloomis9772

2 жыл бұрын

@@nedboy8370 ...

Tbh this whole thing gives me anxiety. Most authors can’t or don’t even want to do what Sanderson does. He’s a magical unicorn. Admire him, but don’t hurt yourself trying to emulate him.

@breadordecide

2 жыл бұрын

100%.

Hate this mentality that authors need to tack on more work calling attention to themselves as it creates this idea that it’s a personal/individual failure if their release flops. A lot of people (like myself) cannot mentally handle the addictive nature and abusive cycles of social media. How many studies have come out about it’s intrinsic harm? Publishers are already pressuring authors to make accounts and market themselves like excuse me that’s what you’re here for…I wish we could step away from this mentality that pushing yourself on social media is a necessary step to success because now all you see is desperate authors flooding an already over saturated platform with attempts to go viral and it makes me so sad. Let authors just write. I’m glad Brandon has what works for him but he’s cherished because he’s an ANOMALY, not an ideal standard. I usually like Daniel but none of us are immune to having bad takes 😔

I think I interpreted Daniel’s reaction differently. I thought he was basically saying that if publishers pushed their already well established/beloved authors or if you as a published author were to network and utilize social media to your advantage then this could become a standard. I didn’t think it was a giant “this is the future and the only way it should be” statement.

@liul

2 жыл бұрын

I mean, doesn't Daniel's success come from having a KZread fan base? Nothing to do with his talent. Other writers could call him out for that.

@Inkandmagic_reading

2 жыл бұрын

@@liul I mean he worked social media to his advantage and gained a fan base that then supported his work. What is there to call out? He is an example of how that CAN work out to a writers benefit. It doesn’t mean it is the best or only way to do it, it’s just showing that it is one of the ways to be done.

@imaginieiota6298

2 жыл бұрын

@@Inkandmagic_reading that is true but not everybody can be expected to be a social meadia star.

@Inkandmagic_reading

2 жыл бұрын

@@imaginieiota6298 again, this is not the ONLY way or the norm. Just an example of how it could work if people are willing to put in a little more effort on that front. I’m just saying that interpreted Daniel’s video differently.

@leonardolf6974

2 жыл бұрын

@@liul "nothing to do with his talent" WHAT???

there’s a reason why a lot of people dropped their money on his kickstarter that fast. yes, he has his privileges but lets also acknowledge how that man earned the confidence and trust of his audience and not everyone can do that. years of constant release, following through his promises, and staying connected with his audience got him there. they know that if sanderson promises them a book, they will get it. if he says he’ll release 4 new books next year, none of his readers doubt that. theyll give him their money not knowing anything about his book because they know he will deliver. the man did the work and he’s reaping the benefits. the thing with sanderson is he did all that work because he wanted to. he went above and beyond. he doesnt have to be doing all this but he does. the updating his reader what percentage he’s at with his writing, the state of sanderson update every end of the year, how he goes to bookstores and sign his books on display, the whole youtube thing and all these other stuff to stay connected to his audience. he did that on his own accord in addition to his constant book releases. publishers can go push their authors to start youtube channels and try to replicate, it will not seem as natural. they have to want to actually be doing that, if not, it will show. authors are not actors. you cannot produce a sanderson because you want to. another thing is not everyone is willing to do the work that he did. some people just want to write and not have to worry about how to market it and push the book to readers and that should be okay. thats what publishing companies are for. thats their job. with all that said, sanderson is already established and has a team with him. you simply cannot show sanderson as an example to someone esp those looking to start. i also dont see it as the future of publishing, tho i think it is an option. an option with great risk. im sure someone out there will be able to pull it off someday but im certain some people will probably earn far too less than the work they put into doing it all on their own. if it works out, that really fcking great but not everyone is willing to risk it and find waiting to get signed as a preferable option and thats okay. it must also be said that sanderson started in trad publishing and seems to still be for it. he has expressed he’s willingness to continue working with tor. his kickstarters seems to be for special edition releases and surprise release like this secret project. tor probably cant even support this suprise project even if they wanted to esp with all the other books they probably have in line to publish with other authors.

@Thecatladybooknook_PennyD

2 жыл бұрын

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 And everyone forgets he used to teach... and write at the same time.

I get his point about the value of social media marketing, but it seems very naive to think Brandon Sanderson is an example of that. Brandon Sanderson is an example of a very popular author *continuing* to be popular. His success with a Kickstarter isn't because of his KZread channel; his KZread channel is successful because of who he is.

@Thecatladybooknook_PennyD

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly... he keeps in contact with his fans and meets his deadlines or I'm assuming has rights to push those of needed.

@JamesHice

2 жыл бұрын

@@Thecatladybooknook_PennyD yes, he has mentioned how he feels accountable to his fans. He is pretty transparent about a good deal of his process, progress including when things slip.

I totally agree with you. And people often forget that even Brandon, who is an exception in so many ways, had to be a public facing, prolific, traditionally published author for DECADES before being able to do this.

to anyone criticizing brando sando: isn't the kickstarter the only place to buy the books in any format??? like he's not "begging for money" he's like, selling his books.... also "how can he do this when there's a war going on in ukraine" um there has always been wars going on and it seems very performative to say that??? idk feel free to correct me if i said something wrong !

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

That’s how I feel but it seems others don’t think that way. It is basically directly selling books to your fans and he has millions .. idk

@tracey7241

2 жыл бұрын

He's releasing the books normally after the Kickstarter supporters get them, so if people don't want to take part they can still read the books in the future. I think it's a great idea for him.

@ProudPlatypus

2 жыл бұрын

It's just pre-orders, it makes it easy for people to pick out a bundle, or just throw some extra money at him. He's obviously already done a lot of work to get all of this released. The main benefit is just having a better estimate of how many your going to have to get made. I did just see the international shipping costs and how they can't bundle things together, oof.

@joelman1989

2 жыл бұрын

People were really bringing in Ukraine? What’s happening is a tragedy of historic proportion but I find it interesting that no one brought up the pandemic or the many wars in Syria and the Middle East as appropriate times to stop entertaining. It’s a delicate subject but it just seems like the the media and people are responding to this seriously tragic event is a little interesting to me when considering how people have responded to other (less white….) tragedies.

While I agree with your points about not everyone can do what Brandon Sanderson did with a Kickstarter, I think Daniel Greene was more trying to call out publishers to support their authors better in this area of marketing through social media engagement. Brandon Sanderson can do it because he has his own company, but publishers could build this into their marketing plan for authors, like having a video editing arm that would help authors create KZread or TikTok videos. I am not sure how scalable that model is, but I do think most authors that are using social media engagement are mostly on their own to figure it out and I think publishing could help.

@nikkisweezea2388

2 жыл бұрын

This.

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

I get the idea but that seems really unrealistic. Promotion for authors via social media already varies and to think publishers can create teams just for KZread and tiktok? Plus the author would have to at least film the content … idk

@emilyking1473

2 жыл бұрын

@@JessOwens True the author would still have to do the actual filming, but publishers could give them equipment so it looks/sounds good, help them with scripting and editing so it looks polished, give them ideas of what to film,etc. The author would definitely be part of the process, but they wouldn't have to do it all on their own like it seems like many are doing now. Kind of the difference between having a publisher set up a book tour vs. an author contacting individual bookstores to set up signings, organizing their own travel, making sure books get shipped to all the stores, etc. What you all do on KZread is a lot of work and I would like to see the publishers do more for authors in that realm. I don't think it is Kickstarter campaigns that will do it, but I would love to see debut authors going viral.

@emilyking1473

2 жыл бұрын

Although I totally agree that some authors will not be able to do this kind of marketing. I think Daniel Greene talks about getting over being nervous on camera. I know for myself no matter how much training I got and polishing I will always be super awkward and scare any potential readers away.

Regarding social media engagement being the future of publishing marketing, the truth is that writing requires solitude and time. Sanderson himself said his writing was being hurt PRECISELY by all the public engagements and travel he was having to do, and it was the solitude and time the pandemic gave him (including less engagement on social media), that allowed him to produce so much in the first place. To conclude that authors should be more active on social media and engaged with their audience to succeed is to actually miss the point of Sanderson's pandemic experience/production. I'm not saying authors can't ever do all their writing and also engage with social media/their audience, obviously Sanderson is doing it, others probably can too. What I am saying, and what is shown in that video, is that every bit of energy a writer puts into social media, public engagements, etc. , is energy that is NOT going towards writing. Do we really want to expect authors to do so much more than just actual writing?

I do watch Daniel Greene but he is quite young and once in a while he really shows how young or naive he is. He very much is the kind of person to say ""If I can do it, so can you!" while ignoring the amount of dumb luck that all successful people have on some level. Sanderson is doing something amazing with his new project, but I don't think many other authors, even hugely successful ones, would be able to do the same thing.

@EmmaraeEmpowered

2 жыл бұрын

I think saying Daniel Greene is "quite young" to excuse or defend or further explain the things he says is not it lol. That just sounds like excusing white man mediocrity. Isn't he in his late 20s?

@tracey7241

2 жыл бұрын

@@EmmaraeEmpowered I thought I saw him say he was like 23 or something recently but I could be way off. I'm not defending him.

@CC-of5xl

2 жыл бұрын

@@EmmaraeEmpowered what did he even say that was wrong here and what does his skin color have to do with it? He was saying writers should keep their fans connected. OP saying he's young is right but for the opposite point. He is completely right and this is how you connect to the young generations.

I don't know why everyone was so blown away. A mega successful person announced some stuff, in a way that other people already do. It's not going to be a reality for 99% of other people. It's just a lot of cheerleading for an already super popular and successful writer.

@bunnybb6901

2 жыл бұрын

because he wrote 5 full length novels in secret alongside his regular 2 or so novels in only two years...you try writing 7 decent books in that amount of time then come back. You don't have to be a fan of him to understand that's impressive, unless you've never read a book in your life or sm

I haven’t read Sanderson but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with what he’s doing. I’m happy for his fans. I mostly read indie published books and a few of my favorite authors published 5-10 books last year (and some cannot be considered small). I’m like you though. I would throw my money at these indie authors I love for special editions and merch.

"What I would like to see in the future of publishing is that they stop merging": This. I DO work in publishing (for a small, independent press, not big 5), and this is also what I want. I really appreciate your priorities and how you think through the nuance involved in these questions of what the industry does, can, and should look like. I think you're spot on. I enjoyed Daniel's video, and I appreciate him, but yes, as someone who works at a small press where everyone has other jobs because we don't make enough money and it's more-so a labor of love for all involved, I did find his "you're an idiot" aimed at all other publishers rather laughable. No offense taken--a press AS small as mine might not be his intended audience. Regardless, the idea that publishing has the ability to do this for all authors and just doesn't is... not... what's going on. Brandon Sanderson is such a unique case, and while I'm certain a handful of other authors could succeed doing this as well, it's not realistic to want much less expect publishers to be able to do this for everyone, all the time. Or expect the AUTHORS to be able to do it, for that matter. I'd love to see more events like this Kickstarter in the future, but I neither expect nor desire the entire industry to shift toward that method of publishing.

I think it’s good that Brandon is doing this because it’s normalizing publishing outside of a big publisher or Amazon self pub because he’s doing this with his own company. But he’s also doing this with *his own company.* He’s already at a place where he has a massive platform, resources, and the popularity where he can do this successfully. This literally can’t be the future of publishing because Brandon is coming in at the peek of his career, not as someone just starting, and that’s not even taking into account other privileges he has. I feel like Daniel really looked past the obvious reasons why Sanderson could pull this off in his video. I don’t think it’s a bad video and I think there really is something to be said about how this might stir up publishing, but literally only Sanderson could have pulled this off and I think that was kinda ignored.

@nikkisweezea2388

2 жыл бұрын

Okay, but, that's not the part of what happened yesterday that Daniel was referring to. He was talking about the viral nature of the stunt, the social media interaction, and direct fan service that happened. NOT the fact that there were 5 secret books, or that they were being self-published, or the astronomical numbers the Kickstarter is doing. It's about embracing modern marketing trends, not specifically about the product and delivery method. OF COURSE an unknown author can't become the second largest Kickstarter campaign ever in less than 24 hours. But, a traditional publisher CAN do more for their authors in terms of helping them establish an online presence, interact with their fanbase, etc. She Who Must not be Named basically did the same thing when she essentially invented the concept of a release date for books in the early 2000s, and Brandon is reinventing the way we interact with stories again by embracing viral marketing strategies and finding a way to break the internet. Other authors don't need to do it at this scale, but the entire publishing industry DID completely embrace the concept of a release date on the backs of the success of HP, and they will be smart to find a way to embrace this sort of announcement and social media campaign in the future. Other people can pull stunts like this off, it will be rare, but even on a considerably smaller scale it will be beneficial to everyone.

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, I do hope it inspires authors to look outside of traditional publishing or maybe doing extra projects via Kickstarter. But Brandon is already on level 1000 😫

I feel like Daniel was trying to say that publishers needed to give authors more support to have a good social media presence (and yeah, if publishers want authors to market themselves online, they should be giving authors more support there), but his message got a little lost when he teased authors who are uncomfortable with social media/public speaking, and it made it feel like he too was putting the responsibility on authors, most of whom already have too much laid on their shoulders. I want to give Daniel the space to express thoughts imperfectly, but I will say I dislike the mentality of "This is the future, adapt or die." We need MORE viable ways for authors of all backgrounds to have more equitable access to publishing, not to shift to a new model that will just exclude a different (or same) demographic. Mental health and comfort levels aside, there are a whole host of other reasons this model wouldn't work for some, including the fact there /are/ still people who don't have reliable internet access. My debut novel comes out next month from a small publisher, and they've actually been very supportive in trying to figure out how to help me with social media marketing in the weeks before release, but if this kind of "Sanderson Kickstarter model" was just the new way of things, I doubt I would have gotten a book deal in the first place.

I am not super in to all the intricacies of publishing but I feel like Brandon Sanderson is the only author who could do a project this huge. His brand is so strong, he is very established, has his own infrastructure to organize these things, big fan base who will understandably jump right in. Saying this is what everyone should be doing is bonkers pants.

@brees3

2 жыл бұрын

A huge reason he can do this is because he owns a literal publishing company. His company Dragonsteel publishes all of the special, leatherbound versions of his books. I can't name another author (big or small) that OWNS a publisher.

I think hybrid approaches to publishing should be encouraged and normal. That being said, Brando Sando is an outlier, and we shouldn't expect the same productivity levels or backing for the average author.

I hadn't been following Sanderson's YT channel at all but randomly saw his tweet about the video going live yesterday right when it happened and was able to catch it all in real-time and honestly, I found myself grinning so hard the entire time. How on-brand is it for that guy to: a. consider "time off" around the holidays to only work 3-hours a day (LOL) b. not only continue pumping out books in his big series, but revising new drafts AND just casually "oops" writing 5 new books (omg) c. challenge the status-quo of publishing (even if we don't agree publishing should change to this method, it's mega punk-rock to shake up the big boys) Just... mind-blowingly on brand hahah. It was really exciting to watch the kickstarter all morning, it was flying. Brandon has always dreamed big and worked hard and I cheer the success he's been able to make (I feel like you were so on-point comparing him to Will Smith - he IS the will smith of the book world!!!) Daniel's statement on it just points out that you have to put in the hard work in order to be successful, and he isn't wrong - it's that way no matter what industry you're in. Loved your take as always ♥ ♥ ♥

You're absolutely right. It's very naive, to say the least, to take someone like Sanderson and say his circumstances do or should apply to everyone. And as someone who doesn't really have huge ambitions as a writer but who's still publishing books anyway, there are a lot of 'musts' in the industry/community right now that make me feel quite stranded.

I don't ever see it as wrong to tell someone "If you want to be successful here is a model and here are steps to take" I see a lot of people talking about money and time etc...But lets be honest. If you are writing full time- You either CAME from and stil live in privilage or have already worked hard to get yourself in a position to write full time. This goes for content creators as well. To be a writer is to be in a position where you have resorces. So to say that its unreasonable to say writers and or publishers should be doing more than they traditionally have in regards to fan outreach and production and advertisement while talking about money is disengenuous. Especially when in the same video you bring up that a lot of successful indie authors are already using TikTok to promote themselves. If we're watching this more than half of us are doing it on a cell phone, the very same device that many youtubers started with. We CAN do it. Whether or not that's our style is a different issue and its not wrong to say those of us who don't adapt to the rise of social media will fall off. We don't have to have our own companies to make well produced tiktoks or youtube videos to put ourselves out there.

I read an article written by author John Scalzi yesterday and he agreed that this isn't going to revolutionize publishing and most authors won't be able to do what Sanderson does. He said Sanderson has created a huge team at Dragonsteel to do a lot of the things that go into these kickstarter campaigns and special editions. Plus, Sanderson has the advantage of being published under a traditional publisher to start out, which helped with all the minutiae that goes into publishing that self-pub authors have to do themselves. Scalzi had nothing but praise and support for Sanderson and this kickstarter in this article. He just was trying to give a reality-check to those like Daniel who said this is the way publishing should be (not that he was reacting to Daniel personally). I will be backing the kickstarter after indon't taxes thus weekend to see what level I can afford. Lol

I’m in Australia and I backed the kickstarter, I love Sanderson. I sure hope it’s not the future of publishing because it is super expensive for those outside the US and would preclude most people from obtaining the books. Also given the expense the most popular authors would dominate leaving nothing for the rest.

I agree with you. I also think that we should not forget that not every author might want to do this! Authors might not be comfortable making youtube videos and kickstarters etc. And that should be okay, too. We should not make publishers think that they should make every author do things like this.

You have valid points which I agree on but I don't think Daniel was saying that everyone should do things like Barandon but rather that publishers should change their marketing strategies.

love this take, super important for people to remember that we can be happy for someone like Brandon while at the same time not expecting or pushing on other authors to "DO LIKE BRANDON."

I WANT A SPECIAL EDITION BROKEN EARTH TRILOGY DARN IT! But I agree with you Jess there's no way every author could do what Brandon Sanderson is doing for a myriad of reasons and honestly not all fanbases would react the same way the Sanderson fans have.

The only thing that Brandon did that I wish would exist in traditional publishing is the bundling of formats. The closest I've seen is Amazon's whisper sync but that's a retail company doing their thing, and locking you into their platforms, not publishing companies. The rest is just fun filler that a wealthy author in a who is also staying up on the current social media trends is able to do.

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

YES. PLEASE LET US GET AN EBOOK WITH A PHYSICAL BOOK OR AUDIO WITH THR PHYSICAL BOOK OMG

@JessTalkingBooks

2 жыл бұрын

@@JessOwens random side note but here in Germany, McDonald's has kids books in their Happy Meals and they come with audiobook options. I mean, if a big fast food company can figure it out...

@SarraCannon

2 жыл бұрын

Yes!!! So much this!!

I feel like the same criticism levelled at Sanderson for his books and level of productivity is the same that was levelled at Stephen King at his height. And neither justified, it's just the way they work.

I agree with Daniel that book marketing can be so boring and stale when compared to other mediums. I was so excited watching this video I actually got emotional. Not just because I enjoy Sandersons work and look forward to these novels but because for the first time in a long no time I felt truly surprised and entertained by a books release. I know not every author, advertisement or campaign can be like this. But if we could just add a bit more of this, whatever you want to call it, into the culture of how we talk about books, I will be very happy.

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

True marketing is pretty standard and meh. It was so fun as a fan to watch this video! So if some authors decide to experiment with future releases and do something similar, it would be cool. But the entire industry couldn’t do it

@joelman1989

2 жыл бұрын

@@JessOwens right! Like you I also don’t think it’s realistic to say this will change dramatically publishing or that every author can pull something like this off. But if this could serve as inspiration for publishers, maybe in introducing more innovation or creativity into their process, or even in giving their authors more creative control over their work and release schedules etc. I think it’ll be a good thing.

@CC-of5xl

2 жыл бұрын

@@JessOwens maybe I'm forgetting all he said but wasn't he more talked about having an online presence was the more important part? Basically publishing needs more modern variety. Which I agree with. I don't think I've ever seen a single bit of marketing for a book anywhere in my life. Idk where they spend their marketing budgets but it isn't been seen. The only kind of marketing I've ever seen is from authors themselves on social media. Which is one of the reasons Sanderson has grown. Yes he was already successful but the point is he made the smart move in realizing getting an audience is one thing but retaining them takes constant engagement.

While I agree with you that the majority of authors couldn’t pull off something like this (mainly because most people can’t write 5 extra books in two years), I think there are some things every author can learn from Sanderson’s example. I think part of why Sanderson is so successful is because he is a hybrid author (aka he is both traditionally and self published), and I don’t see many others doing that. I think that’s the real takeaway here.

Okay long rant in bound. Just as an insider of someone who studies self publishing and marketing for self publishing. I'm in a number of author groups who talk about social media and marketing from folks who are making full time money while writing novels. TL;DR: Brandon can be Willi Wonka, he gives me things to dream about. Danile Greene is not a normal self published author and needs to stop with the hot takes. First. I love that Brandon is doing this. The man knows he has a fanbase who can support this Willi Wonka like dream, and honestly, it's fun. He's doing this as a community building thing and I honestly think it's cute. I wish I had the money to get in on some of it, but alas, I have other things to save up for (Like publishing, more on that later). Did I have a panic attack. Yes. Was it cathartic to realize he was okay? Yes. Honestly it made me laugh for the first time after Russia's invasion started. So, I personally don't mind, and I know when folks set up a Kickstarter they can't really stop the ball from rolling. Brandon Sanderson is normally a good diplomat and navigator in making sure he doesn't hurt folks so I don't think he had a lot of choice in when the video dropped. Second, and here comes the salt. I think Daniel Greene has tipped over to becoming an influencer. He's lost his connection to how self publishing and publishing itself works. If this had been Harper Collins (or whatever Frankenstine company they have now after all the mergers) doing a Kickstarter, I would have been pissed off. Those folks are making a killing. The big publishing companies go to book boxes to do stuff like this, they outsource it so they don't have to worry about the stuff they need to collect and find. And for self pub authors? I have several friends who kickstarted books, only half of them ever made their funding. The other half never got close. The only way Kickstarter works is if you have social media campaigns going on, and those cost a lot of time and a lot of money. I'm talking anywhere from 50-200 dollars a day kind of money for facebook adds to get interest out. Most self pub authors spend anywhere between 100-2000 dollars publishing a book (this coming from a question from the '20 Books to 50k' group on Facebook, also from asking several authors I've met.). The ads money alone would triple the amount of the project. So your thoughts on only folks who have a fanbase could make this work is absolutely correct. As for making authors join KZread? Danile is not looking at Authortube at all is he? There. are folks there kicking butt, but they aren't selling their books (at least the good ones aren't, not going to name robotic names). There was a poll done on twitter talking about where a reader will most likely buy a book, and I think Alexa Donne did something similar, and folks found that Twitter and KZread are the least likely areas. Currently, Tiktok is selling books. It's all over the author marketing spaces. It's fun, easy, and doesn't need all the work KZread requires. MatPat from Game Theory did an interesting talk about how KZread is growing up and not a place for unprofessional, and that makes this place intimidating. Third! I think Danile Greene has gotten sucked into his own world. First with talking back to readers when they reviewed his book and now this. He's done self publishing, but he's not like other indie authors who had no following. He's not as bad as some Authortubers but him saying this changes everything. It's intitled. He's an influencer who has the ear of hundreds of thousands. He is not the same as someone like me who is excited I saved a few hundred dollars so I can self publish a book. I wish he would stop talking about publishing like he knew it. He's just proven to be very privileged and not thinking about the folks who have no desire to put our face out there.

this comment is probably pointless... but honestly, i'm just impressed how fast you got this out. and also your skin is glowing.

You hit the key point: staff/infrastructure. Sanderson’s output is massive because he has staff to manage everything else. Even for his KZread channel, he walks into the room, sits down, and talks. No set up, no tech management, no editing. Even publishers could not manage all that Sanderson’s staff puts together. Publishers could, and should, do more for mid-list and debut authors across the board but to expect Sanderson level support is not realistic. Also, and I genuinely do not know the answer to this, does Daniel Greene have a job beyond KZread and his own writing? Most mid-list and debut authors have a day job in order to pay the bills. Even the social media requirements publishers are currently forcing on them are overwhelming for many/most. Privilege influences perspective. It does for me and it does for Mr. Greene as well.

I didn’t interpret Daniel’s video as saying every author needs to work the same way that Brandon Sanderson works. I think his point was that publishers could be making more money for themselves and their authors if they utilized social media and viral marketing to their advantage.

I think you articulated this so well, Jess, and I agree completely. I really enjoy Sanderson and have followed him for many years (including on his podcast with the team from Writing Excuses). But he already has a long established fanbase from multiple mediums. Daniel (who I also like and respect) didn't take into consideration the platform and privilege Sanderson has to be able to raise that amount of money in that amount of time. So it doesn't make sense to say it's the future because there is no guarantee that people are going to be able to achieve that same success even with the effort and resources.

@valarya

2 жыл бұрын

I think the entire point of Daniel's comment was that you have to put in hard work to be successful, and that's true no matter what industry you're in.

@omarhatem9575

2 жыл бұрын

@@valarya Yeah, but as a reader not an author, I would rather have authors just sitting in their offices, on their computers or typewriters, and writing books lol. I don't want the author to become an internet personality. I don't want to get involved in the lives of the authors, or have them promote themselves as the products. I want to read the book, and get on with my life, as I used to assume most people would, but apparently not. Just a personal preference 🤷

@valarya

2 жыл бұрын

@@omarhatem9575 Definitely personal preference. Because personally, I love getting to know my favorite authors. I was on a private message board with Robin Hobb & about 10 other people for years (before she moved to Facebook, this was in the long long ago) and it was glorious. That isn't a flex, just another example of how it doesn't have to be an internet personality. Additionally, I never expect authors to be work-horses and to only sit in their offices and write. It brings me joy that Sanderson was able to throw this little 'secret' at his team, at his fans, and even give us a plot twist in the revealing of the Thing because seeing him have fun makes me like him as an author even more.

Daniel wasn’t saying authors should write more books like Sanderson, he was saying that publishing companies and authors need to utilize newer tools like social media and kickstarter to have more clever/up to date marketing strategies than just using Facebook advertising or whatever. He never said that authors need to write more.

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

I get that he wants authors and publishers to use social media more but it’s still not realistic.

@storykiser

2 жыл бұрын

@@JessOwens yeah I agree with your points about how it’s super not realistic for a majority of people, and I agree that he should have taken into consideration that a lot of people have aversions or mental health issues or just jobs that would make this kind of thing impossible or at the very least difficult. I’m not disagreeing I just wanted to respond that he wasn’t saying authors should be writing 5 books a year or whatever like Sanderson haha since you talked about that in the video.

I've been a fan of Sanderson's since 2010 when I read The Way of Kings. I'm glad he's doing well.

As someone who would be required to pay the roughly USD $140 shipping on top of USD $160 for the hardcover quarterly books, and thus won’t be getting them because it’s too expensive, am so hoping that this isn’t the future of publishing bf and that these new books of his get published traditionally so that I can have them some day 🙏🏻

The amount of money raised blows me away. I would love to see Sanderson leverage his power for good. Can you imagine if he had just said "and if this kickstarter exceeds X dollars then a percent goes to charity." Low bar, but still. The 10 million feels especially staggering amidst the humanitarian aid efforts that are currently happening. The man deserves his coin, he is a talented machine! But damn. He is powerful.

@nikkisweezea2388

2 жыл бұрын

The number is large, but they are probably making very little to no profit off of the actual sales. They have already said that, despite the admittedly exorbitant international shipping charges they had to charge, they are taking a loss on that particular aspect. They also made almost nothing off of to WoK Kickstarter after they changed the shipping method for the poster, added in a ton of heavy extras, and paid a premium to make it happen in pandemic times. I expect this one to be much the same.

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

His influence is immense. It is a lot of money and I hope he does donate to Ukraine

@sk8tie

2 жыл бұрын

And don't forget that 10% of his income goes to the mormon church 🙃

@crelgen1588

2 жыл бұрын

@@sk8tiehow dare he use his money to support his faith!

@sk8tie

2 жыл бұрын

@@crelgen1588 i moreso meant that he's a millionaire so

It would be so bad for publishing and authors if this became the norm. We would end up with even more SJM mass produced novels just so they can sell the merch. The gap between those authors and those more marginalised authors would widen, deepening the problems that publishing already have! I feel like Daniel will Kickstart his next self published book and he has the audience to do that. Most writers aren't public speakers, they're writers first and foremost

Brandon Sanderson is on a whole different level, a living superstar fantasy/sci fi author who’s very prolific. His influence can def help smaller authors. Uncle Rick comes to mind. And I hope Sanderson could do the same. That could be more game changing. Also to add this would be sad if this was the future of publishing especially got people outside of America or country of origin of the author. Those shipping fees are expensive. The shipping fee is almost the amount of the physical books themselves. Traditional publishing would make that cheaper and more affordable and more accessible. This also opens the gates for scalpers because if these books never get published traditional and it would be a single run, these books have the potential to be worth so much money. It’s a lot of things to consider not just to the authors lives, well being , skill and speed to write but really also to the consumers. Sure there are cheaper tiers but still.

I think overall this is a net positive. Fans of Sanderson get new work from him, Sanderson gets to control how he wants to publish his own works, Amazon will not receive any money from this... I did take slight issue with Daniel's perspective and how this is absolutely the direction publishing HAS to take. This model would only work for a select few authors who are already established. I would be incredibly concerned if publishing went this route because we all know who would get this sort of funding because we see who gets funded with publishing now. To add another barrier for marginalized authors to succeed? That would be an utter disaster. Another thing that mildly concerned me with pivoting entirely to Kickstarter would be access. Currently, you have to have the means to back it now or in theory you just will miss out entirely. I know he said there is a chance his publisher could pick them up later, but if you miss out it just sucks. I hope at least the ebooks will be available to purchase off his website down the road because I would really hope that library systems can get access. And hell what if you became a fan later on and you've just missed out on four entire books because you just hadn't known about it??

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

Very much a positive on many fronts. I especially love that Amazon doesn’t get money *evil laugh*. But I just don’t see how this could become the norm for most authors because of the money and people needed to pull this off

@johndipietro9301

2 жыл бұрын

Coming to this late, but Daniel actually did an interview with BrandoSando, and one of the positives Brandon brought up is that this doesn't go through Amazon, though it also shares the negative of not going through the book stores (which he sees Amazon as a threat to in the current market), so that was definitely on the nose. (That video actually led to this one indirectly via the recommendations actually)

@stubbornlybookish5555

2 жыл бұрын

@@johndipietro9301 I never considered that. It is quite the bummer that for amazon to lose out, brick and mortar stores have to lose out too. I guess it is another reason why this style of publishing is an outlier and will not be the future of trad pub

as someone who wrote a 410k fanfic in 11 months from 2020-2021, its not that difficult to write at a high volume if youre using it to cope and have nothing better to do than obsess. as someone currently working on original work and entering the query trenches, however, i cannot imagine publishing trying to enforce more than a 2 book/year output from normal authors, bc you cant just draft something and have tradpub print it (unless youre a known name who doesnt care anymore like sarah janet). drafting takes time and emotion. editing takes time and emotion. And with the rate of pay being poverty wages, most authors need a day job to pay the bills, which severely limits the leftover time and emotional fortitude to produce a lot of books, let alone LONG books like sanderson writes. my 410k fanfic in 11 months is a high level of output, sure, but i didn't edit it. i just posted it after combing it lightly for copyedits and typos. if tradpub were to enforce this sort of output, only people like sanderson--people who already have the resources and time to write full time and fulfill kickstarter incentives--will be able to publish with the support of the industry and rise to the top. and we already know that the demographics who usually have that sort of backing are hardly diverse. we'd lose a lot more challenging and necessary stories if this became industry norm

As a bookseller this worries me its erasing bookshops from the narrative

@gracie9658

2 жыл бұрын

I honestly don't think this way of publishing is the way for anyone else than huge names who are already successful. A debut author couldn't do that, and neither could authors who are average.

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah if everyone went this route but the thing is everyone can’t. Brandon has his own publishing company. Everyone doesn’t have that money and access and so I think book sellers are still important and will be for a while 🖤

@snickeringpigeon4370

2 жыл бұрын

No it's not. Daniel was saying how important it is for authors to do social media, not for authors to sell their books online (not to mention that Sanderson's books will be available in bookshops anyway, this is essentially a giant pre-order). The model he was suggesting was not removing bookshops from the equation.

I think Daniel's point was that he authors to get more involved with their fans and he believes that that will make them more successful. As far as Sanderson goes I can do without the disclaimer of why you think he started successful. He has a strong work ethic a lot of writers just don't want to do. I'm no Sanderson but if I can work 10 hours a day as a postal carrier and still published two books a year. It's not unrealistic if you write 8 hours a day to write four books if that's what you want to do. There are definitely part of what's Sanderson does that only he and a few people can accomplish at this point. But I do think more authors and should interact with their fans

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

But some authors don’t want to interact with fans and that’s fine. Everyone’s desire of how much they want to interact is up to them. For those who do choose to interact, this Kickstarter probably is inspiring them to experiment with future projects

I think the kickstarter is really cool and Brandon Sanderson is amazing, but I agree that I don't think this is the future of publishing. For starters, even Daniel didn't do anything like this with his own book release lol... and there's a massive list of barriers to stop all but a few from doing it. Maybe there are some elements that others can learn from, but it's not that simple. Brandon can only afford to do this because he has so much capital to put behind it and he already has a whole team dedicated to working for him. Plus, from a practical standpoint, the Kickstarter rewards are EXPENSIVE. If every author was trying to do this, I don't think there would be enough money to go around. I certainly couldn't afford it.

Wait, one more thing The way Daniel essentially said “get over it” in regards to people with social anxiety/fear of public speaking because HE got over it…do people not realize mental health and mental illness operates on a spectrum of severity a lot of times? So f*cking callous to say that. Just because YOU got over what could be absolutely insurmountable to someone else doesn’t mean EVERYONE can do it. This is why representation and education on “mental health” needs to go beyond anxiety and depression, I swear. Just because YOUR social anxiety doesn’t hinder you from speaking up in public spaces does not mean it works the same for everyone, Daniel. Jesus.

@PinkCatsy

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly this moment alone made me consider unsubscribing to his channel.

@bunnybb6901

2 жыл бұрын

pretty sure you're looking too deep into this, he never once bought up mental illness and if you've ever watched his videos you'd know he's not the kind of person to wave away mental illness. It was a video he made very quickly because he was very excited about an announcement from one of his favourite author, he definitely didn't think so maliciously about it as you're insinuating

@britwww

2 жыл бұрын

@@bunnybb6901 I never said I thought it was intentional. But it is upsetting to hear someone use their own experience of working through a specific kind of anxiety to tell others who may be struggling to “get over that.” If that means I’m looking too deep into it then by all means. I still like the guy and support his channel 🤙

@PinkCatsy

2 жыл бұрын

@@bunnybb6901 He literally did, unintentionally, by saying that being anxious about public speaking is not an excuse. I'm sure that's not that he meant but his tone was extremely dismissive.

@AliviaHaven

2 жыл бұрын

I think he meant it more along the lines that to engage with your audience as an author to any measure of success you’ll have to overcome general anxiety about it. You can’t build a relationship with your fans if you never speak to them in any capacity, and having a solid relationship with fans is becoming more and more important to an author’s success, especially with self-pub. I think you’re looking to make this general assessment into a slight against mental health when it absolutely wasn’t. At least i didn’t get that message at all and I’ve been diagnosed with severe social anxiety since I was 16.

So…as someone who’s been looking into crowdfunding to source costs for self publishing seeing this is amazing. No I don’t think it should be the future tho because at the end of the day a kickstartyer is different from an investment from a publishing house. Let people with money spend it and actually pay folks instead of making the struggle for new and upcoming/unknown authors even harder because we have to now also be hugely successful on social media to even meet crowdfunding goals let alone make a few milli out of it.

Yeah most authors don't have the fanbase that Brandon Sanderson does and most authors can't write books as quickly as he does. I feel like most of the authors I read publish one a year at max, but usually one every couple years. But good for him in actually being able to do it.

@snickeringpigeon4370

2 жыл бұрын

Daniel never said that authors should have to push out several books a year. He said that qouldn't be possible. His point was about social media only. Did you even watch his video?

the fact that daniel thinks you can just easily work towards a massive fanbase like brandon's in the snap of a finger or just because you really tried super hard is wild. not everyone *wants* to be a social media star. it bugged me that he basically said "you need to just do it because this is how things are now"

@liul

2 жыл бұрын

Specially when Daniel's books sell because of this KZread fan base.

@ulliquarahyuga7534

2 жыл бұрын

@@liul but that’s the point. He’s right. His books are selling because of his social media platform. You might not like it, but what he said was true. To sell anything to the current generation you need to interact with your fan base online.

@snickeringpigeon4370

2 жыл бұрын

@@liul That's the point, dude.

@leonardolf6974

2 жыл бұрын

@@liul did Daniel kill your dog? Chill out dude... Second time in this video where i see a comment from you saying Daniel don't deserve his fame.

This conversation is really interesting for me, especially because I am currently reading Lisa Daily's book Become a Famous Romance Writer, which is all about how to do marketing for oneself without spending lots of money and staying within your comfort zone. What I see Brandon Sanderson and many other authors who do reveal videos and use kickstarters is a way to market their books and author brands. I agree with you that Sanderson is going to have more success than other authors due to his name being known even outside of the reading community. Do I think that the traditional publishing industry as a whole needs to market their authors and books better, Yes. To your other point, I do not think Daniel Greene was saying that authors need to write as fast as Brandon Sanderson. Just to learn marketing tricks from him. And while Greene might think that Everyone should do the same marketing types of things, I agree with you that it depends on the author and their comfort level and other factors that are dictated by their life. There are many successful authors that do not have a social media platform and their readers will still pick up their next book when it is announced. Social media is not a necessity for current or future authors. It can help someone build a base that will be interested, but it does not guarantee success. Thanks for promoting this discussion.

More books to read, epic releases, and his reveals are appealing because he knows his audience. As someone who is attempting to write sci-fi fantasy, it can be overwhelming, and I am just eager to see how it goes. I might even get the first tier because I am curious.

my jaw dropped when you said the kickstarter made fourteen million dollars😟😟

@ElizabethNicoleSchwartz

2 жыл бұрын

Same! In one day? That is wild to me.

@mikouf9691

2 жыл бұрын

It's now up to 15.9 million and climbing. Even though it has slowed down, with another 28 days to go, I can't even imagine how high it will get. I bet George RR Martin could have been on or near this level if he could publish the next Game of Thrones back using kickstarter.

I'm surprised people took offence and fell for the sad thumbnail and hints dropped. I'm so used to clickbait that I ALWAYS assume that sad videos are fake now (which is sad itself honestly). If an author truly had something really sad to say they wouldn't tease it for views, they'd most likely come out and say it directly, so I'm surprised people fell for it.

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah- I doubt he’d tease a video announcement a serious illness or something

@Frogface91

2 жыл бұрын

Same. Sanderson isn't known for KZread drama and if something bad had actually happened, it probably wouldn't be communicated via KZread, at least not in a click bait way. I saw the title and thumbnail of his video and grinned, getting out the mental popcorn, wondering what the joke was going to be.

I also saw another author on Twitter point out that most female writers had to become full time child care over the shutdown which point out that this kind of work, not even just the writing but doing extra things like a KZread channel for your writing, come from free time a privilege not every writer has

@moniqueloomis9772

2 жыл бұрын

🏆

Yeah, I'm a writer and I wouldn't want to do this. It's part of why I want to be trad pubbed. I don't have the capacity for all the things self-pubbed authors do. I bow before their greatness but that's not me.

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

Great point! Some people don’t want to do all of this ! Even with a team, Brandon still does a lot and everyone doesn’t want to/can’t

@zoebrugg7594

2 жыл бұрын

Same here.

I think Daniel was trying to incentive publishing industries to innovate like Brandon is doing, but I get it's a privilege Brandon has because he's really successful and already has a fan base.

Thanks for your thoughts! I watched Greene's video just for context and immediately told KZread not to recommend his videos lol. I know it was off the cuff but it wasn't good advice for authors. You do have to promote yourself but this scale is not feasible. Lots of authors do Kickstarter these days but it's because they don't have the money to publish. I'm not a Sanderson fan so the idea of paying so much to make a rich guy richer is...just confusing to me.

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

Self promotion is definitely important but to the level of Sanderson would be a lot of work and maybe some authors don’t even want that

@crelgen1588

2 жыл бұрын

How is it paying "to make him richer"; the riches he earned fair and square off his work. It's literally just him selling and you buying his books. It's not a donation lol

@ceceliaisaac66

2 жыл бұрын

@@crelgen1588 Scroll down to Jen's comment because she explains it well but it's about the profit margin on the boxes. Having run a book subscription service, I doubt they're worth the markup.

Overall, I think a lot of people are overreacting or misunderstanding. It’s understandable that not all authors could do this and they’re not expected too. Brandon is aware of his privilege and utilizing it to give his readers a unique opportunity. But it is a cool idea and it would be awesome if other authors were able to do something similar. It’s a lot to chat about and with recent issues within the publishing industry it can get even more tangled.

UH NO THANK U! I want to read books by good WRITERS not people who are good at SELF-MARKETING on social media. This is not to say that writers who are good at social media aren't good at writing, but these are two different talents and not everyone has both. I don't want publishing to prioritize self-marketing more than it already does. Marketing should fall primarily on publishers, that's literally their job.

I also just can't see this happening in a lot of other genres or in other countries' publishing (which, not having watched his video, I would imagine Daniel wasn't thinking about). For example, literary fiction has massive names attached and many of them would never want to do that level of marketing and exposure (Donna Tartt being an extreme example of that). The readers also aren't nearly as devoted as in SFF/Romance genres. Never mind the additional barriers to entry if you're BIPOC, disabled, not writing in English or writing outside the big English-publishing countries, etc. Thanks for covering this! I saw the hype around his post but didn't watch anything because I haven't read any Sanderson but love hearing your perspectives on bookish news :)

@JessTalkingBooks

2 жыл бұрын

Even Romance has a huge difference in publishing. Most authors don't rise from self to major contracts like Talia Hibbert, for example. I know some writers, like Jennifer Estep did the trad to self change and makes decent money. Both authors spend a lot of time self-promoting instead of writing because they have to drive audience as well. Most authors can't do that, simply put. For a myriad of reasons.

I totally get what you’re saying, but I think he meant simply that more authors should have KZread channels to grow their fan base, which could lead to bigger publishing announcements.

@stardroplet9499

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I think what he is saying is that a new way of publishing and interacting with fans will be needed to succeed.

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

That’s still a lot of work though. Maintaining a KZread channel isn’t easy and I doubt publishing would invest or have people to dedicate to running channels for authors

@hannahblackwellbooks

2 жыл бұрын

@@stardroplet9499 yeah, but I totally get that authors are busy writing, and those that have more success can then hire a team to run their social media. But on the other side of the coin, doing to extra work of running a KZread channel can grow your fan base, leading to more money, a team, and so on and so forth. Also it’s important to point out that some people have an advantage, fair or unfair. Also some people don’t just not like social media, they are against it, like, look at what Facebook has done to America, look at what it’s done around the world, facilitating genocide in Myanmar. So yeah, it’s a super complicated issue. I don’t think Daniel meant anything by it though, I think he meant what most people know: social media is the future in general.

@PinkCatsy

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think Authors should have KZread channels to grow their fanbase. If authors want to then they can. A lot of people saying that KZread channels could be maintained by publishers or teams - celebrity KZread channels operate like that and most of them are not really well loved

I've tried to watch several of Daniel's videos and really wanted to enjoy them because the topics are great. Unfortunately I've been consistently disappointed by the content. He doesn't seem to take care to make sure that what he's saying makes sense. This impression stems from small things like frequent malapropisms and obvious mixed metaphors, but also from the arguments I've seen him make that just don't seem thought through to nearly the degree I see from smaller booktubers. I don't intend to level ad hominem criticism, it's okay if I just don't like him, but I think he could use his platform way more thoughtfully. His take on Sanderson's announcement just felt like everything else I've seen from him, half-baked. This type of publishing is a route that is open to a tiny group of authors, and good for them, but this is not the whole ass future.

I think all authors could learn from what Brandon is doing. Any likeable author would make more money if they had an online presence. I think that's the point that was being made. You want fans? Let them know you. Publishers are taking note and there will be changes.

As soon as I saw his video yesterday, my jaw dropped and it's still on the floor.

As a Book Subscription Box Small Business: Sanderson is only able to achieve these special boxes because he owns his own supply chain. Kickstarter often REJECTS subscription box models because we're not considered "creators" we're consider "curation." Creating bookish subscription boxes are NOT easy. Yes, we have access to wholesale pricing, but often we're playing against economies of scale. Until you're able to sell 100 boxes a week, I'm still losing tons of margin because my wholesale volume is low. Custom covers, custom merchandise, it's all a huge goal and dream but unless you're someone with huge money and marketing like Fairyloot, Illumacrate, or even Book of the Month, it's super hard. Sanderson gets to do this HIMSELF so isn't paying upcharges from producers and so on. Hope this makes sense!

The scale of this is only possible because Sanderson is so big. Like sure, I think there are a lot of ways that traditional publishing could and should learn from this kind of project, but it would be unfair to put this kind of project on smaller or debut authors. Especially since publishers spend their money on big names (look at the Britney Spears deal by S&S) while the day to day workers who keep the actual publishing house open barely make enough to live (which I say as someone who formerly worked at one of the Big 5). I think publishers need to fix employee compensation, and then author advances, and somewhere in there they have to reconsider what readers actually want from marketing. That said, I'm buying these new Sanderson books as soon as my next paycheck hits the bank.

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

So true- publishers need an entire internal reworking!

I think what this who situation is good for and why this would change the publishing industry is not because everyone will become self published but that the publishing industry has to take notes and take advantage of new ways to promote/sell books. It doesn't have to be the author but this could be utilised to create hype and engagement around some books

I just checked the kickstarter and nearly passed out

idk, some authors need to have less social media and less access to fans imo. some can't even handle twitter or instagram and now you want them to have quality produced youtube channels? for me, an author is an author. if you write well, i'll buy and read your book. you don't need to be an influencer or youtube star on top of it. i honestly prefer you not be.

Brandon Sanderson is lightning in a bottle. His path is quite literally impossible to follow. Sure, there will be future authors who will have similar success through various lucky breaks and hard work and may be able to drop Kickstarters that pay out in the millions, but they will be few and far between. For most people, running a Kickstarter for their books would be a massive failure. And I'm saying this as someone who doesn't like Sanderson's writing and I'm over here like, "Can we move on already!" (For the record, most people cannot write like Brandon Sanderson - we have day jobs and have to do things like housework and feeding ourselves and Brandon reportedly writes all day except from 5-10 when he hangs out with his family. He wakes up at 12pm. Who's making breakfast for his kids? Getting them to school? Delivering the lunch they forgot? Who's picking them up from school, getting afternoon snacks, starting homework, making dinner? I hope his wife gets thanked in literally every acknowledgement, for at least three pages.)

@ashleynovels

2 жыл бұрын

I hear that but he wasn’t an overnight success. He started trying to get published when he was in grad school and then worked as a night manager at a hotel for years. So this success is 20 years in and I think like 15 years after he was first published

@ljcarey011

2 жыл бұрын

@@ashleynovels Oh, absolutely. And people want to pretend you can replicate all that by doing a Kickstarter. The "future of publishing" took decades of hard work and some lucky breaks in between, plus lots of other people working in the background. No one who isn't at the level of Sanderson or Scalzi is making money off a publishing Kickstarter.

I do believe it will change some things, and I do believe that publishers should take note. I believe Brandon Sanderson can be the catalyst to really bring about change that will benefit the author. Like a comment said before that about authors having more control. I really hope this gives authors the motivation to take more control of their works, and that it shows publishers they need to loosen the reins on authors. If I get to the point of publishing my book, I keep leaning towards self publishing if I don’t find one that would give me the level of control I want.

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

I think many authors are inspired by seeing this !

So glad KZread recommended this video! You got a new subscriber today. Thanks for your thoughts! I look forward to more of your videos!

Completely agree! This is just not a realistic take. There are the already extremely popular authors who could do this as a special treat for their fans, such as Brando Sando, Maas, King,... But that's maybe 0.0001% of the traditionally published authors, we're not even talking about self pub authors who couldn't even dream of putting that amount of time and money on top of their day job into this kind of thing. As a self pub author himself you would think he'd know this. The other side: if everyone would be doing this, what would then be the difference to what's being done now? Nobody would stand out anymore. The whole point is that this is something special. And YES to your point of him really disregarding people who don't want to be on social media. 'I had anxiety and see what my full time job is now!' because we all know that everyone suffers and deals with difficulties the exact same. If you want to write, you become an author. There should be no pressure to then also become a public spokesfigure. It's great if you have that natural charisma and want to do it like Brando Sando, but it's also great if you don't feel like doing that and stick to writing. I really don't like how he put so much pressure on other people and acts like there is no legit reason to not do that.

Yes, I agree with your points. It's really easy to underestimate how much work Dragonsteel is going to be doing. There's currently 65,000 backers. Sending 4 PRINT books to 65,000 people means coordinating the printing, shipping, and customer service for 250,000 copies. This is a publishing company. Most authors are parents with day time jobs. We can't set up publishing companies at that scale on the side. Most authors run out of time after sending off a few dozen promos.

Imagine if Sanderson put his clout and money to start up an imprint like Rick Riordan to support upcoming authors. Just imagine if the most successful authors would think to pay it forward to fresh talent and maybe focus a little less on what is essentially a vanity project. 🤔

@snickeringpigeon4370

2 жыл бұрын

How is giving your fans more book with almost zero profit a vanity project???

@moniqueloomis9772

2 жыл бұрын

@@snickeringpigeon4370 Zero profit? Almost? Then how the heck *are those bills being paid? 😕

I feel like a prophet - I was on a Worldhoppers video a year ago complaining that if Sanderson wasn't going to let people edit him, he should self pub since he's one of the only authors who has the base to not need the support that traditional publishers give their authors 😹 But saying that every author could go this route seems... naive? I guess I'd have to watch that video to understand his argument

@brees3

2 жыл бұрын

Really just Daniel's perspective. Brandon certainly isn't saying he thinks this is the future of publishing. I think Daniel is a little short-sighted since this is the path Daniel himself is trying to use to gain momentum as an author.

@bookslikewhoa

2 жыл бұрын

@@brees3 Ah, sorry, should have defined my antecedent better for "his" - I meant I haven't seen Daniel's video so can't fully assess his argument in that video

if this is the future of publishing i guess reading won't be a hobby of mine anymore because i certainly can't afford to buy 4 books at once, especially before i even know anything about them...

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

People willing to buy books before knowing anything about them probably only works for a well established author

You and Daniel both make really good points. We can't expect every single author to have a massive KZread channel and kickstarter just to sell books. But I do think authors need to get current with the times. Mark Twain traveled doing speeches. Authors doing the occasional livestream is a must in today's market. Or at least posting to Instagram or a blog on a weekly basis. Building a relationship with people is usually a good idea if an author wants hardcore fans. Brandon is just doing this better than almost anyone else.

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

I’ve seen some authors talk about it on Twitter and seem to be inspired by this, so that’s exciting ! Because there’s definitely other authors I would back if they did something similar

I think Daniel Greene meant more that more authors should engage their audience like Brandon, ie how he did the announcement. Maybe I'm wrong though! Either way I think he mostly just got excited and hyped and put an off the cuff video up immediately, rather than a considered take. You're totally right no way this would work for everyone, or even most.

Brandon Sanderson's first published book was the seventh book he wrote.

I'm super happy and super pissed that he could write so much so fast. XD I have a far more difficult time writing that much. Time and discipline aren't factors. My brain just isn't there at this time. I want to be prolific so much

I side-eyed his video HARD!!! Then I tried my best to move on with my life. This is something only someone like him can pull off... So... 🤷🏾‍♀️

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

😂😂😂

Politics aside, I agree with you. And as a unpublished writer, school and work focused, mid-twenty year old… this worries me. And I worry that I’m never going to make it if this is where publishers want to go.

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

Don’t give up!! I think at the end of the day this is just another avenue authors can choose to go in addition to trad publishing or how people typically self pub

I swear…Daniel Green opens his mouth and I just get more irritated…

@zoebrugg7594

2 жыл бұрын

He wasn't as irritating a while back.

Brandon's announcement was so exciting and a great distraction from everything that's going on, I just wish the timing were different. I know he already had everything planned and I suppose I don't blame him for going along with it still, but it felt surreal to pause the donation stream (for Ukraine) I was watching in order to look at the kickstarted and note the insane difference in the willingness of people to give money. 14+ million dollars is an insane amount of money and I kind of wish he'd take just a small fraction of that and donate it maybe, since he even mentioned Ukraine in his stream.

Glad you made this. What DG said really makes no sense when you think about it.

I wonder if, given the outrageous success of this Kickstarter, Sanderson will set up a turnkey "Kickstarter design" package for authors who want to do something similar. Like, for a set fee his team will handle the editing, graphic design, logistics of fulfillment, etc.

@JamesHice

2 жыл бұрын

I'd guess it'd be unlikely for them to do the work (Brandon seems to enjoy keeping them busy already) and that it'd be more likely they'd share their process and help other authors and author teams know what helped them be successful.

I think Daniel Green was speaking of publishers supporting their “a list” authors in this way. I’m a board gamer and board game publishing dabbled in kickstarter like 10 years ago and after a few years it became clear it was a viable way to sell board games and it went from people who were self publishing to major publishers using the platform and now basically all board games are released through kickstarter and the industry has exploded. It could be a great way to release “special” editions with the “swag” as stretch goals to those who back the kickstarter and then release a standard edition the traditional way after the kickstarter is fulfilled. This is basically the board game kickstarter model. Backers get a more premium edition of the game than what will be sold at retail and there are stretch goals for extra “exclusive” stuff. I think that model translates very well to book publishing for already established authors. Just look at the success of fairyloot, illumicrate etc. with long waiting times to get into their subscription service. there is a market for it and kickstarter is a way for publishers to capitalize and broaden that market.

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

Publishing definitely should get more creative. My thought is if publishing did this for their “a list” authors then they’d have even less money and time for mid list authors

@sketchpadangel

2 жыл бұрын

@@JessOwens that’s such a negative mindset 😔 that’s like going to an office job and thinking that if the company offers better training for their executives then they automatically will provide no resources for new hires. That’s not how it works at places that actually want to be successful.

Oops, just heard you mention MJS! But, I’ll leave my thought anyway. Michael J Sullivan has also had much success in using Kickstarter to fund the publishing of some of his books. His message has been that incorporating a “blended” strategy in publishing may be best for both authors and readers. (Highly recommend his Riyria books! Love me some Royce & Hadrian ⚔️)

Hey Jess! Great to see you jump on this! I didn't see the 'this is the future of publishing' comment as 'everyone should write this fast' per se, but I still disagree with Daniel's comment, because of the earlier point you raised about tiers and not everyone being able to be top billed. If Dragon Steel combines the control of self-pub with the muscle flex of traditional, why should he use kickstarter and suck the air out of the room for all the small creators struggling to get their first dream project to come true, let alone their ... 245th? There's my negative Nancy to your chatty Cathy. 😘😆

You are so right! Agreeed, there's already a lot of pressure on authors to market their own books and it's hard work, and not everyone wants to be doing marketing.

Not a fan of Sanderson, but really appreciated how you weighed into this topic from your standpoint as a fan and with a balanced appreciation of the implications and everything around his announcement, and Greene's video. Plus everything is happening so fast, I also appreciated how quickly you put out this video--thank you!📚📚📚(By the way, I love the special edition of Winternight in the background!)

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

🥰🥰🖤🖤

I'd actually love to see more authors do this. Especially if you have a steady readership. I'd love to pay in advance for a book from a fave author that I don't know what it is and the book is a surprise at my doorstep. The hype that will happen when the first secret book lands will be epic and this is where I agree with Daniel, publishing would be idiots not to take note of this phenomenon. I, a Jemisin fangirl stan, would kill for this. I hope Orbit is paying close attention. And this leads me to another tangent, Bey changed music with surprise album drops. Authors should do the same. Consumers love being surprised and established authors should consider this.

@JessOwens

2 жыл бұрын

I am desperate for Orbit to do something like this for Jemisin!!

@GM-vr4eb

2 жыл бұрын

And not just a Kickstarter. It can even be a regular pre-order. But the book is a surprise. And merch. Goddamn I would love Inheritance Trilogy merch. My kingdom for a Nahadoth hoodie