Thank you to all the pilots who so valiantly demonstrated these techniques.

@justinf1343

23 күн бұрын

😂😂

Great video! I haven't seen these techniques before. They look extremeley effective at reducing the severeness of potential injuries.

...Erik Fair's book, "Right Stuff for New HG Pilots" has a good discussion of crash landings vs. forced landings, what to do, retaining vs. abandoning control of the glider; when; why, etc.

I just got my Hang 2 rating and have never been told this. Thank you.

@adventureswitharizonaart6117

Ай бұрын

LJ teaches us to not crash. I did this at Villa Grove last year and blew out my shoulder. I think it was an appropriate alternative to getting my neck broke.

@garrykennedy5484

Ай бұрын

@@adventureswitharizonaart6117 Hell yeah it is. Hope you heal well. I've been out for a few years now. Unrelated shoulder problems. Tennis elbow. pinched cyatic nerve. Ugh!!!! Sucks getting older.

@adventureswitharizonaart6117

Ай бұрын

I flew with your brother last summer at AJX, but didn't see either of you over the winter at Sonora Wings. Hope to fly with you soon.

Thank you for posting. I wish I had known the way to deals with it in my 1997's hard crash. Well, I have been practicing again on the dune to go back in the air since then. I would like to use the technique for the next desirable one.

Thank you for making this video, thought provoking!

Really good and necessary video. Thank you for sharing. I think the last guy couldn't throw his legs up in the end cause he first hit the wire fence with his feet. Safe flying to all!

@newmikha2

5 ай бұрын

Thanks!! The legs should go forward _into_ the A-frame, over the basebar rather than under, i.e. they go first where the rest of the body go next. If they go under basebar, it's not much of a use. I think I didn't put it properly in the video 🤔 Not very easy to implement, but could be useful for this guy

Great ideas and very interesting. Thanks for the input. Fly safe 🌈🇨🇭

Excellent video. I hope it gets widely distributed.

@newmikha2

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Yes I hope the same too.

Well, interesting and worth of seeing. However, I am not sure about the ideas. For example if you succeed to get your legs and your body ahead of speedbabr you risk your leg gets broken by the speedbar during the crash. And I prefer hitting an obstacle with the glider first (which consumes a significant amount of the energy) than with my body directly. I agree with Mike who proposed making a video about good landing practices and avoiding the crashes. But again, thank you very much for this attempt to the safe landings discussion contribution.

@newmikha2

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Marcel! I agree that it's good when the glider hits the ground first and partially absorbs the energy of impact. Hence "grab the upright" technique. However, the "grab" one is for situations when you see that the crash is gonna be in a second and there is not much time left (grabbing an upright can be done _very_ quickly). The problem is, if you're still in the prone position, there is a good chance that the head will hit the ground or an obstacle first, even with the hands grabbing an upright. Hence the "legs first" one, it is intended for a situation like e.g. a stall, when you've got a second or two, and you see that it's REALLY gonna hurt, so now your goal is to save your very life rather than just health. So yes, the legs can be broken - which is still better than a broken neck. See the guy who's hit a snowy slope on the video - he exercised "legs first" and then walked away without a bruise (I had a chat with him). I really think that flying head first for him there would be a much riskier option at that speed, even with two hands grabbing an upright. The fact that he also went away without injuries is really just a bonus. One more thing - the "legs first" is a very rare thing to use. Just because the preconditions for it are rare - the situations like "I've got time but I can't land properly" are fairly rare - but they do happen sometimes anyway. I personally used it only once in my 20+ yrs of flying

@dernicolas6281

Жыл бұрын

The glider absorbing energy is quite a big misconception.. the energy of your body moving needs to be absorbed. Ideally slow. Like using a long breaking distance (your feet's length) rather than a very short one (your had impacting somewhere). The longer the breaking length the lower the force. Feet forward is a great technique to absorb the energy of your moving body. Your glider can't do that for you. Because it's your body moving which is relevant.

Awesome thanks! Just started my classes and that’s good to know.

I like how he said, "You do NOT want use your head as a break pad."

Thanks for making this, very useful information!

The "throw your legs forward" idea seems to completely miss the fact that hang gliders are weight shift controlled. This is equivalent to saying: "If you're going to crash anyway, pitch down as hard as you can."

@newmikha2

2 жыл бұрын

Not really - there are two examples in the video, at 4:18 and 5:03. The center of mass doesn't seem to go forward at all, but even if it does, it wouldn't do much in one second. It also depend on a harness though, I'm sure that not every harness allows it. BTW I did it once myself, and trust me, the pitch control wasn't something that bothered me at the moment :)

@logmeindangit

3 ай бұрын

I know a guy who, even though a very good pilot, had the nasty habit of putting his feet forward when about to, or entering the final flare, and causing a "whack" landing. I no longer fly, but admit, I had trouble timing my flares, for years.

@mikebarbee2217

Ай бұрын

Don't throw your feet forward. Learn how to land correctly. Throwing your feet forward is a good way to break your legs. And not flying into objects on the ground is easy if you know what you are doing. Flying a hang glider is like driving a car...not everybody should be driving a car!

Very well done. Thank you for making this!

@newmikha2

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks buddy!!

Perfect video, brilliant idea!

Very informative. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for posting. Excellent Idea!!

I flew seated, then supine until the new trend was prone position. Went back to a gentle training hill to learn the new position, glider nose raced ahead and punched into the ground dart bending both uprights and dislocating my right shoulder severely.....still bothers me 35 years later. Total number of logged flight was over 300 before I gave up this incredible sport due to loss of several friends in fatal accidents and my right shoulder would often partially dislocate on final landing approach. I won’t go into details on other accidents nor my midair collision with a hang gliding friend in 1981.

The best possible instruction

Something I didn't see mentioned is that allowing your self to swing through the uprights while holding onto BOTH down tubes will often result in a spiral fracture of the humerus bone which was for a long time one of the most common injuries in hang gliding. Only holding one down tube is a great technique. A note of caution on the "bad ass" technique: moving your legs forward can constitute a large weight shift forward which can result in a dive just before impact. A lot of care should be employed with this technique so that you don't unnecessarily increase your velocity before impact.

@newmikha2

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Milo! Agreed. Yep maybe it was worth to mention this - we just assumed everyone in the sport knows this kind of fracture anyway. But yeah might still have been worth reminding. On legs forward - the pilot goes upright and lifts the legs in front of him, but on itself it's not supposed to move his centre of gravity forward. It becomes a "throwing" only at the impact, which it is throwing the pilot forward through the A-frame. The balance of the glider could be disturbed though (if not already) when the pilots goes upright - so yes if the pilot decides to do it early enough then it should be done with caution.

@snakedike

4 жыл бұрын

My technique of choice when I was learning to fly was the bull dozer. I would punch through both down tubes on a bad whack which both absorbed the energy and softened the airframe. It was expensive but actually worked pretty well as I was never scratched though I crashed a lot :-( But it hasn't always gone well for other pilots. So I believed a more senior pilot almost 20 years ago who told me to let go and go fetal. When I finally got the chance to try this out, it resulted in my worst injury since I started flying in '83. It went pretty much exactly as you show in your first example. Actually crushed the top of my Kevlar helmet on the keel and messed up my neck for several years. I am so glad you are sharing these better techniques and hope people get a chance to think about them before they are needed.

@HVYMETL

3 жыл бұрын

@@snakedike please explain what "punch through both down tubes" means. thanks.

@snakedike

3 жыл бұрын

@@HVYMETL This is not really a technique. Is more or less what people do instinctively if they have not been trained in these better methods. Essentially, hold on tight to both uprights near the middle of their length where they are vulnerable to side loads. Your hand position when flying upright is about right. When the glider impacts the ground you push into the tubes with strong arms and body until they snap . This both absorbs the energy and it weakens the air frame. It seems to work. When I was learning I was always a bit too anxious to get the next level and went through a lot of down tubes but was never injured doing this. I suspect people with weaker bones or joints are increasingly at risk of shoulder or elbow injuries. So I'm not recommending this but it is far better than swinging through and hit the keel or having your nose plate land on your neck.

@Theworldofhanggliding

3 жыл бұрын

@@snakedike I landed in a corn field and snapped my right upright in the way you described. BUT ! I think the upright was specifically designed with a "max snap load" in mind, because it was an upright for my Icaro Piuma - an entry level wing. The other day - funnily enough, and I don't know why, I thought about the crash scenario - I checked out my friend's WW T2 uprights; carbon fibre and profiled. These things just won't give, (almost) no matter how much force you put behind them. So for profiled uprights (carbon or aluminium, I don't think there'll be much of a difference), I'd advise against "the bulldozer".

Great little video, think ive done all of these landings except plow into a static caravan

Thank you so much

Wow I was never told this thanks so much

Great video

seriously good value video, will probably use it one day.

@newmikha2

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks!!

Миша, ты молодец! Несёшь свет просвещения безопасности в тёмные массы ;)

@newmikha2

Жыл бұрын

Спасибо :) Вроде бы даже иногда вижу, как есть толк от этого видео - по чуть-чуть, но идея откладывается в головах

😀😀👍👍👍 good tutorial

I have been searching for years of a safer way to crash! I think several of my fellow flyers would still be flying or at least still alive if they had used this technique

@newmikha2

5 жыл бұрын

Ohhh it was exactly my motivation when I was making this video :(

The guy that hit the trailer did throw his legs forward but they caught on the fence in front of it

I wish I had known this in my major crash of 1997.

I did the badass technique once. Really good, just a few scrapes

@newmikha2

4 жыл бұрын

Glad to hear you're ok buddy! When did you do it?

@alejandrovenegas1240

4 жыл бұрын

@@newmikha2 I guess it was 2015 :)

I like it! Wouldnt work with a powered harness though. 😕

@ericoschmitt

4 жыл бұрын

Not the "throw legs forward option" but the first one could reduce damage since you wont have 20kg harness crushing your back directly. But probably a broken arm.

At 1 min 54 seconds.....the pilot risks a severe shoulder dislocation.....that happened to me but with the right shoulder since my right held fast to the upright bending it just like seen in this video..........

Thanks. Very enlightening. I dont fly yet. What I always think is: Adjust hang lenght to NOT coincide the wing front tip with the neck. It makes sense?

@saleplains

Жыл бұрын

its kind of inherent to the geometry required to fly the glider. a shorter hang strap provides less control. i think it doesnt hurt to look at techniques to avoid injury during a crash but probably hurts less to focus on techniques to avoid crashing in the first place.

The first thing you do when you know you're going to hit is slow down! Push the tube very close to the ground, as long as the speed is slow the chance of injury is greatly reduced!

@newmikha2

Жыл бұрын

Ah, if you can slow down, you don't need these techniques :)

@bangzhuqiao

Жыл бұрын

@@newmikha2 I've tried it and it works until the last thing you do is push! But at this time to grasp good, early stall late slow down ineffective!

@newmikha2

Жыл бұрын

@@bangzhuqiao I was about to wright about the stall, but you did it already. Well, I guess we agree then that pushing in stall is not something that would work, eh

In my days there was none of these mamby pamby advice tips or fancy instruments. We'd just tie our flat caps on our heads with a big bungy or elastic band and uprights were made of 2" conjuit tubing as we kept bending the posh ones. I happened to hold the endurance record in the air with an unbelievable flight of 26 seconds from a mere 1,500 hill. We never had one of these new fangled Ventimeter things to see what the wind speed was, if our kilts didn't blow up over our heads then it was safe to fly. we didn't know what a bloody altimeter was, all we had was a stop watch. I'm told now these supa dupa machines have got a thing called a kingpost so it sounds awfully complicated. Aye you young uns don't know you're born, now where's me clay pipe ?????

interesting video but illogical. I find it best to make the best decision of wind direction and slope then do everything to flair and slow the glider, At the last second if it,s not working let go of the frame and ball up. You could break an arm from the sudden twist if you hang on.

@newmikha2

5 ай бұрын

Thanks. If you can flare, you don't need this (yet). The sequence starts at the moment you marked as "if it's not working let go of the frame". Just, there is no reason to "letting go" helplessly and fly head first into the keel or a ground - do a bit more and get a chance to walk away with less injuries. Sure an arm can be broken, that's exactly what's advertised at 2:01 . Grab the upright with both hands, it will help greatly to keep arms okay. But even if not - a broken arm is still better than a broken neck, eh?

When you crash an aircraft, the aircraft is expendable. You are not. In unlandable situations, General Jimmy Dolittle taught his pilots to place the fuselage between two trees and break off the wings. He did this several times and walked away. A hang glider offers similar ways for the aircraft to take the blow. As Michael shows here, bend the downtube on impact and slam into the undersurface of the sail. It's a trampoline! It's a safe place. It will save you. Feel that downtube. It's hot. That's the energy that would have broken your arm. You dopes on paragliders are SOL.

Fly suprone!

Or you could fly supine so your feet/legs are always forward.

@oneshortstory

5 жыл бұрын

not an option :P

@JonMcG

5 жыл бұрын

OR , Wear a Helmet at ALL times just incase of a meteor strike ..... Seriously ?

how bent is that upright before the crash? 4.44

@newmikha2

Жыл бұрын

Well spotted, it is not quite straight indeed.

one hand or two hands = arms broken or ripped with aluminium, legs forward= legs broken , they re no way to avoid bones to break if people are too weak for that sport ! I wasnt weak ... 2 times i broke my left arm with the trapeze .

@newmikha2

4 жыл бұрын

Well, I'd say you had a chance to go away without injury in both incidents. I'm 24 years in the sport, 3-4 comps a year - and no single broken bone in my life.

@cyrilmailletwebmaster

4 жыл бұрын

@@newmikha2 we cannot have the same potential as you, specially in hangglider ... the question of why this sport is so dramaticly unpraticated is fast answer , and you know it well

@copperlark5400

3 жыл бұрын

What do you mean by weak? Strength to carry a HG?

@cyrilmailletwebmaster

3 жыл бұрын

@@copperlark5400 strong and resistant

How about flaring, and landing on your feet.

@newmikha2

11 ай бұрын

Hmmm yeah that's right, how about that 🤔

Would you allow me to translate it to portuguese? It would be easier if you could send me the file without your voice.

@newmikha2

4 жыл бұрын

Sure, we can do it - it might take a while though. It's a relatively simple thing to do, but I'm bit busy right now, so will do it in a few weeks if you don't mind :)

@ericoschmitt

4 жыл бұрын

@@newmikha2 ok thanks! But only if you have the file without voice, otherwise I can just download this one and record over it. My email is ericoschmitt@yahoo.com.br

@newmikha2

4 жыл бұрын

No problem, I will prepare a version without voice for you - like I said, in a few weeks

@ericoschmitt

4 жыл бұрын

@@newmikha2 thanks! I have to say I'm not 100% sure about the second technique (feet forward), dont you think that if one has the time to do that you may as well have the time to prepare a propper landing? Maybe that is useful if you have to land uphill with a tailwind? or on a tree? Although for tree landing I've read advice that you should stay in your harness and only unzip after the glider is secure on the top of it, so the harness protects you from scratches. Plus, with feet forward both arms are locked behind the bars, coldnt that break both arms? A friend of mine has broken one arm while crashing with one of his arms in the "normal landing position", twisted his bone and shoulder. I guess the first technique would have spared him from injury. But not the second!

@newmikha2

4 жыл бұрын

​@@ericoschmitt Absolutely, if there is a time to prepare a proper landing - then the proper landing should be exercised! But there are situations when there is a time, but still crash can't be avoided. For example, a stall on landing (shown on the video). I personally have jumped with my legs forward only once in my 20+ yrs of flying, when I missed a small paddock and the only option I've got then was landing on a tree. So yes it's used rarely, and sure normally there are much better options than that - but it's good to have this trick under the sleeve

Good to watch but looks like thy had gliders to waist to make a couple of those videos,, when it hit it is not oftten you have much time to think,, so far everytime I have got it wrong I have come out unhurt and also my glider,,, best thing is pray it never happends,, stronger upright are said they break peopels wrists but me I go with them every time as they break your fall without any doubt.

@willswingwilly1950

5 жыл бұрын

In 30 years I had only one incidence with a landing injury , You are perfectly right , it's the time and mostly a few more things going wrong at once ! I never went flying worrying about how to brace my self or how to use my safety devise . As a rule be careful when using more than 2 new unknown things in your flight like the Glider it self ,the Harness, the technical equipment or at a new region :)

@petethewrist

5 жыл бұрын

Yes you are dead right thank good we do after a lot of hours to to the point where the only new things are site, new site and new landing areas, by the time we have had lots of hour our experiance seems to get us through,, thank god,,,

How about actually flaring on landing 🤔😁

@newmikha2

Жыл бұрын

Ah, flaring works perfectly if it's actually in time after an actually good approach. These two "if's" sometimes are not aligned exactly well, you know :)

Seems like not too many schools teach this anymore. Why?

@newmikha2

4 жыл бұрын

Well, in the Eastern Europe the schools & instructors are teaching it, as they always did. Maybe not all, but definitely many. Like the video says, it's a common practice over there

@alexmark1982

4 жыл бұрын

Michael Karmazin yeah, here in the states, I guess, the general mentality is “don’t put yourself in such situation.” But you never know. Thanks for the video!

lol at the boomers who think this is safer than paragliding lmao

@newmikha2

3 жыл бұрын

I was once in a joint hg/pg comp. Same or similar tasks, i.e. the same air. 50 hg, 150 pg. Every day there was a reserve, and overall a few broken bones & compressed spines, all coming from the same side... guess which one :-/ So yeah no thanks.

@meow121.5

3 жыл бұрын

@@newmikha2 i heard the same story from a boomer on a shuttle ride up. guess what I saw when I got to the lz? a broken downtube lmao

@newmikha2

3 жыл бұрын

​@@meow121.5 So in your story, the guy has saved a bone by breaking the upright. Think about it - where the impact energy would go has he missed the tube. Now, imagine he's got the same crash on a PG, eh

@meow121.5

3 жыл бұрын

​@@newmikha2 consider the vast amount of aircraft in aviation history built with prone position cockpits lol. it's lunacy dude.

@newmikha2

3 жыл бұрын

@@meow121.5 ...and the vast majority is build with the rigid elements around the pilot. Taking the stats above, this seems to be more important. Neither is safe though, both types are a huge compromise, I think we should agree on that?

Not sure what was more painful , the accident itself or listening to the narrator . Video very good , very informative , but perhaps re edit with someone who won't make you want to purposely crash your glider into a rock. ;)