I own the very first Lagoon 440 (hull 1). Previous owners took this boat around the world. It DEFINITELY shows its age. We have most of the issues you mention. I do hold a lot of regret, as the previous owner was not as honest as I think he should have been about the boat's condition. And we have spent a lot of money repairing/upgrading our "bluewater ready" boat. This boat has been sailed VERY hard, and our beginner experience didn't see some of the signs that we should have caught (nor did our surveyor). However, having done most of the repairs myself: I am very confident in this boat and know all her systems. However... All that being said: I have been on other production makes of the same year (Leopard 43, FP Belize) and many of them feel way "older" than my catamaran. We went on a sailing school charter on a 2012 Leopard 44, and the interior was definitely showing its age. It looked as bad as our boat (which is 8 years older), and it felt more like a toy than a $500k yacht. I also think it's a little unfair to blame a toilet or hatch used on numerous models of boats on Lagoon. Every production boat uses Jabsco toilets. So in my opinion, all production boats have issues. But what's the solution? Spend TWICE as much on a Outremer?

@TheSailingFamily

Жыл бұрын

Yes. A Lagoon is not designed to be a Blue Water Boat. If you want one, you need to pay twice as much. Having owned both a Lagoon and an Outremer, I think you hit the nail on the head there. Yes.

@meatmwax

Жыл бұрын

@@TheSailingFamily Well you guys also proved that Lagoons can cross oceans and survive storms in your 380. Love your videos! Especially your video of you guys sailing in 50 knots and just enjoying the wild ride! I would have been a lot more tense! haha Also really like HH catamarans. Been on board a few. If we could afford one I'd get one! Maybe in a few years when there are used 44s on the market! Until then, I'm reinforcing bulkheads and building my lagoon into a floating tank!

@TheBelrick

Жыл бұрын

Or you could spend thrice as much on a privilege cat :)

That Generator isn't from Lagoon, that model isn't even an option so the charter company put that in aftermarket. Lagoon uses either Fischer Panda or Onan. It's usually Onan on the 42. The electric toilets work better. You need to maintain the toilets, pumps and valves every year. Leaving windows open isn't a Lagoon fault. The boat is clearly very poorly maintained. I've got friends with the 3 cabin version of the 2017 42 with electric toilets who maintain it very well, and it's in prestine shape. No bad smells in the heads aside from the smell of sea water, which is common on all boats that have seawater heads, no water coming up from the drains etc either. Wear and tear on woodwork is normal for all boats. The 42 doesn't have bulkhead issues. In 2019 Lagoon changed all the bulkhead materials in production, their mast rear boats, like the 40, 42 & 46 don't seem to suffer from bulkhead problems. The best source of information is on owners forums. I'm looking at buying either a 40 or 42 since I love being on my friend's 42. Lagoons are built to a price point, and if you want them to be blue water live aboards you need to spend money to upgrade various systems for that purpose. Almost every cat I've been on creaks, some flexibility in the two hulls is actually designed into them, too much is a bad thing though. Usually it's in relation to the rigging being too tight. Rather than spending over $1 million plus on an HH, you can get a 2017 Lagoon 42 in good shape for around half of that and invest another $100k in sails, rigging, batteries, solar etc. Replace hatches, valves and pumps, do a bit of maintenance, and have a great blue water cruiser. It's all about how you option and maintain them.

I do boat repair and restoration and have owned many boats over 60+ years. I have not owned or been on a Lagoon, but have watched over 100 walk throughs and tours from both brokers and owners. (I have no life, :) Lagoons are mass production boats built to a price and offer amazing value for money. Comparing one to a Voyage, which is a small, boutique builder is a bit silly. But let's address your specific issues. Genset is obviously not a builder issue. I also bet that the poor drainage is a result of the pipes not being clean. They are small and even small buildup or clogging with something would prevent proper draining. The scupper pump does sound a like a design flaw, but not one I've heard from an owner, so I suspect poor mainenance again. The worn wood trim and flooring is definitely a result of charterers not taking care of the boat. I've never seen that kind of wear on ANY tour of a Lagoon. You liked the Corian on the Voyage? You could replace every surface in that salon and galley for a couple thousand dollars. Windows - seriously? You are blaming the fact that you left the windows open during a squall on the manufacturer? For me that completely undermines your whole review. If you left your windows open at home during rain, would you blame the builder? LOL The water leak does sound an actual builder issue, but perhaps not a design flaw. Hard to know without taking a closer look. Lagoon's bulkhead issues with the 450 are well documented at this point, and I would be interested to know if they also apply to other models. There are 3 things about the 42 that would help it in this regard, even if their bulkheads are built in the same way. 1) The boat is quite a bit smaller, so any structural members are smaller and would therefore be relatively stronger, assuming they use the same materials and techniques. 2) The 42 has less sail area - ~ 1000sf versus ~ 1400sf. Less stress on everything. 3) The 42 is quite a bit lighter - 26,000lbs versus 33,000. Less mass = less stress on everything. The crap bulkhead design that doesn't work on the 450 MAY be OK on the 42 and smaller.

A lot of really good information, Thanks!

It's a production boat built to a price point. Also, it's like comparing a rental car to a owner operated vehicle.

@craigme2583

Жыл бұрын

No that's not right, it's not fit for purpose. A rented boat will still be subject to every day stresses and bend in the middle. It's not what's on the can....

Great video!

Great video! Thanks a lot

Great honest review. I am still considering the Lagoon 42 but it was well worth noting specific issues.

@BFSailing

Жыл бұрын

They are beautiful boats and they use space so well. I think some people are better than others in being able to keep after water problems and keeping wet things off surfaces. For us, we expect to use the boat heavily and, while we will take care of it, we know we won't be perfect in protecting the boat from all water. You certainly have to consider your own usage amount, type of use, and frequency of being exposed to wet conditions to make an informed decision. Good luck in your search and thanks for commenting!

@angela1984a

Жыл бұрын

@@BFSailing Many sailing KZreadrs are going in the performance multihull direction. Here's a couple that have made several videos about why: The Sailing Family, Young Barnacles, the O'Kellys, and of course Sailing La Vagabonde. Others on KZread have chosen performance oriented monohulls. Here's three: Sailing with Thomas, The Duracell project and Sailing NV. Those routes seem to offer a lot of advantages safety wise... Full disclosure though... I haven't sailed a second in my life. ;-)

In my opinion, your head issues were maintenance issues, an easy fix if the marina cared.

I'm not a Lagoon owner, dealer or employee, so no skin in the game. I'm a very experienced boat owner/sailor for more than 40 years with professional training. The joker valve and drain issue, and a poorly working generator are just bad maintenance - so I would blame the charter company and careless charterers, not Lagoon. Neither is the hatch a Lagoon issue - I think it's a cheap shot. The materials would wear better if selected for ruggedness rather than looks, but to be fair - the fact that you left your front hatches open says more about you than it does about Lagoon. A Lagoon or other production boat under the management of a caring and thoughtful owner would fare much better. These boats are built to a price point and to sell at boat shows, and to look good on charter company brochures. Someone who buys these boats used needs to do a lot of work to bring them back to ship shape, and that includes cosmetic finish work. Moorings and Sunsail have a "phase out" stage they put the boats through at end of charter, where they do a lot of that for the next owners. They will remove their charter company branding and correct every issue found in a survey. However surveys do miss things; and anyone who buys a used boat is going to find things that need fixing, and they're also going to want to make changes to make it more suitable as a private boat. Also - anyone who buys a boat should not be "all in" on the price - they need to have a substantial budget in reserve for repairs/upgrades and allow extra time to make it right.

Thank you

I think you missed the point on most of the issues as they‘re either problems that Lagoon has nothing to do with (3rd party, maintenace, negligence) or are not a problem of the 42 but of other Lagoon boats (bulkheads). What we didn‘t like on the 42 (the 46 has the same issue as well) is that they‘re creaking like hell right from the factory and that the sailing performance is somewhat abysmal. But hey - they‘re rather reasonable in terms of pricing so you get what you pay for… 🤗

@slo007

Жыл бұрын

Not sure about reasonable pricing... they used to cost 300-400k new.

@ladykay8

Жыл бұрын

Anything that is "creaking like hell" is not something I want to be on!

@spaRTan3246

Жыл бұрын

@@slo007 Yeah yeah - the good old times when a Model T was only $825… ☺️

@spaRTan3246

Жыл бұрын

@@ladykay8 Exactly.

@denhackle8020

11 ай бұрын

@@ladykay8 How do you feel in an airbus or boeing over the atlantic ''creaking like hell'' for at least one hour???

Yes , a lot of money if a ship has these issues , everything can be solved and a lot of these issues are due to failed maintenance, design , general quality. But to repair it takes time and again money. In a boat market ,as it is now, with falling prices a difficult decision .

great video :)

@BFSailing

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

Other than the known bulkhead issue (which has been addressed on later models) everything you complained about is maintenance related. Everyone knows charter companies do not do proper maintenance. And even with proper maintenance, it’s a boat. It never ends. You seem more like an HH guy…. Here’s a secret…. Those need constant maintenance too. 😂

great review, thankyou

Did you ever make a review of sunsail?

I have been sailing a 2001 Voyage 380 in the Eastern Caribbean for the last 17 years where there are lots of catamarans. It seems to me that after the 2008 financial crisis, the quality of the big 3 production cats took a big hit. Even more so is the maintenance at the charter companies. I am based in St. Lucia and am appalled at the condition of boats coming out of charter. Most of the work including fiberglass is done at the dock. Buyer beware and have a good surveyor.

@BFSailing

Ай бұрын

Billy, thanks for the comment! We love the Voyages. We think they are great, rugged boats. Congratulations on yours! The Voyages we toured were in Sopers Hole in the BVI. There is a Voyage Yacht Chartesr base there that does only Voyage Cats. They were ALL in fabulous condition even after being in bareboat charter service for over a decade. I agree with the points you make and I do think that some of our observations could be related to the maintenance programs of the charter companies but we were comparing 13 year old Voyage bareboat against 4 year old Lagoon bare boats managed by Sun Sail in Tortolla. The Voyages certainly looked older and they were more utilitarian but the condition of the surfaces and equipment on board seemed to be in much better shape than the Lagoons. It's possible that maintenance contributed to a lot of this but our gut told us that, even with good maintenance, the Voyages were in remarkable condition after 13 years of charter services. That can't be all maintenance differences, can it be?

Everything is related to the boat.it reflects the quality of the build. The main issues are the bulkheads. It all reflects the builders incompetence in building skill and choice of materials.

Some of the issues that you mentioned are not directly related to Lagoon. The reality is that everything in life is made to a budget and if you accept the limitations that the budget has delivered and you modify your own behaviour with regards to caring (in this example) for your boat. I recently sailed 1,000 miles on a Lagoon 42 and the owners were meticulous in taking care of their boat and so I never experienced (or saw) any of the issues raised in this video. In my opinion, the Lagoon 42 is limited with respect to galley function and cold storage for a larger crew and the noise from the auto-pilot (or rudder - I never got to the bottom of it) in the aft port cabin. Most production sailing boats use marine plywood with a veneer top for woodwork and there really should not be anything wrong with this if you take care of it, yes the veneer can easily scratch - but would your prefer more plastic? Or would you pay significantly more for solid hardwood? The Lagoon 42 that I was on had electric WC’s and a defined instruction how to use them - there were no smells in any of the heads. Like everything in life, treat things as your own and you will invariably get the best out of things. Treat it like you are renting it and it’s not your concern and invariably things will get damaged and will break. PS - The bulkhead comments were a cheap shot, Lagoon have dealt with that issue quite admirably.

@craigme2583

Жыл бұрын

Admirably?

@kodiak7

Жыл бұрын

Dealt with the issue by sending out their legal dogs. Allegedly Getting various parties to settle behind NDAs and removing their publicly stated issues. A company I would never trust.

@tlevans62

Жыл бұрын

​@@kodiak7 that's what every company does to avoid liability law suits. If you're not in the manufacturing business, you'll not be aware of it. Just like automobile manufactures, their lawyers etc make sure these things are handled. They have offered repair kits and inspections through authorized dealer networks. Same as an automotive company does with recalls and service notices.

@jimdiamond8246

Жыл бұрын

Lagoons are over priced junk and that's a fact .

@tlevans62

Жыл бұрын

@@jimdiamond8246 you're clueless, and that's a fact. Literally hundreds of them are out there circumnavigating the World. But thanks for your detailed & well argued "brainfa*rt". 🥱

There are too many issues with Lagoons for us to seriously consider them, if the bulkhead issues were not enough there have been numerous reports of discovery of infusion voids ( in a balsa cored boat FFS ) in the structure of the Lagoons. Hiding structural members behind veneered ply is a negligent practice whoever does it and unfortunatly Lagoon are not the only ones doing so.

Thanks for the review....i think you are the first one who directly pointed out this problems.

@BFSailing

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the feedback! I do think it's a characteristic of used Lagoons that is a little overlooked in the market.

Really good, fair review. Skippered a 2 or 3 year old Lagoon 40 in Europe last summer and while overall it was an awesome trip and the charter company were professional and accomodating, I did notice some of the same issues, including the head waste backwash and scupper pump/head flooding issues. Literal exact same rather unsavory experience. Do feel that some of these issues will be exacerbated on a charter vessel due to the high useage, as you say. You could argue that charter vessels should be better maintained for that reason, thus limiting such issues, but we all know that often isn't the reality. Bulkhead issues and delamination can't be argued with and I'm definitely aware of the bulkhead horror stories but believe this has been addressed in newer models, though I could be wrong on that and it certainly doesn't help owners of older models. Disagree with you on outward facing windows however as I think this could constitute a hazard to those moving about the foredeck. I guess "hazard" on an ocean-going sailing vessel is a relative term, but a hazard nonetheless. If I recall, those windows are situated very near the forward storage lockers so also potentially an obstruction, albeit minor. Just my 2 cents. Fair winds and following seas!

FFS….it’s a 5 year old charter boat..you will never be satisfied with any boat you ever own. Good luck.

i have sailed quite a bit, mostly monohulls, but if I was in the market for a catamaran, it wouldn't be lagoon, or even leopard.. the one catamaran I've researched extensively is Privelege. Yeah, they're more expensive, but I've watched quite a few videos on how they're built. It takes 18 -20 months to build one..not 18-20 weeks. they're not punched out quickly, and very very few are in a charter company...If you're serious about a cat check out the hull and deck construction videos of a privelege catamaran...

@mattclark6482

5 ай бұрын

Ditto, I probably haven't done nearly as much research as you, but I've come to the same conclusion

Breaking free, I have not heard so much excretement and lagoon bagging for so long. So you had a "FEELING" that Lagoon was not the boat for you. Wow such factual detail. The boat you were on was a charter boat, you said yourself many of the issues were ones of maintenance, Fory crying out loud, many many charter companies are renowned for failure to maintain their fleet. In regard to water ingress, you are only guessing how this may have occurred. Once again they are a charter boat, no one, particularly the charterer's care if water gets in the boat - why - because its not theirs. Agree that I would not have a 4 head boat,it is not needed but they can be converted to storage and laundries. Finally if you are going to make these types of videos here's something you may want to consider, facts. I have owned two Lagoons, both were not perfect but I would go back to one in a heartbeat and have sailed many of thousands of miles in them in all conditions.

@BFSailing

Ай бұрын

Greg, thanks for you comment, even if you might not agree with our preferences. I even agreed with your observations about the nature of charter vessels until we got on some Voyage charter vessels that had been in bare boat service for over a decade and they did not have the wear and tear that our chartered 4 year old Lagoons had. They Voyages definitely looked older because they were 13 years old and chartered their whole life....but they were still in better condition then the Lagoons. How would you explain that? Do people that bareboat charter Voyage yachts feel compelled to take better care of the boat they don't own than the people who charter Lagoons?? I am glad you like your Lagoon and you are sailing. I hope you are enjoying the water, I truly do. They are not for us. We would choose a Voyage and would have if there was one we could afford on the market when we purchased.

Wait till the bulk heads start to rip away from the hulls

I agree with you. I would not either. And!…………..they are still not cheap. I can’t afford to pay a quarter to a half MILLION on a boat only to have structural problems. No thanks. I have follow a number of lagoons in the cruising circuit, with considerable and serious structural problems. , My Cal ll-46 is 52 yrs old, NEVER a structural problem. Even still has the ordinal engine, and it’s still crossing oceans!!! Yes it’s a mono but come on. 5 yrs vs 52 yrs?! Maybe some other “bottom end cats have similar problems, but when the “bottom end is a quarter to a half million dollars………….no!

I agree with your observation that if you are relying on a boat to keep you alive on a blue water crossing, Function far outweighs form.

What sailboat do you recommend?

@BFSailing

Жыл бұрын

We have not chosen one for us but that decision is coming soon. A brand we know that we like very much is Voyage Yachts, especially for the early 2000's time period. They seem very rugged and solidly built. We toured some that had been in bareboat charter service for 12-14 years and they were in far better condition than 5 year old Lagoon we chartered.

From a non-Lagoon owner perspective the bulkhead issue while bad seems to have been handled well by Lagoon. Another large brand has window leak issues and hasn’t been nearly as forthcoming with help. Also salon windows opening out could be an issue when tacking and you forgot they were open, let’s not ask how I know.

@craigme2583

Жыл бұрын

Handled well? They were forced to...

@1sailfast

Жыл бұрын

@@craigme2583 Agree. In my opinion they were publicly shamed into it.

@Sagan_Starborn

Жыл бұрын

Thank you Colin from Parlay revival. If it weren't for his agitating and defending against the fact his boat was storm damaged, they would never have fixed the bulkhead problem and people would have died at sea.

Lagoon are very badly built, all glued no taping of bulkheads and and and I owned a Switch 51 for 13 years with no issues!! Cruising with no toolbox opened for weeks except maintenance

Talk about biased. The 450 is the only one with the hull issue and leopard has even more issues. In fact, they all have their histories. And comparing a plastic/glass interior to wood of any kind and expecting the wood to wear better than the glass, is just ridiculous. Wood requires more care, no doubt. Then again, an all plastic/glass interior feels like a hospital or prison cell.

Agree with you. Most Lagoons are sold to first time buyers. Be happy, be safe

Kind of a hack job on your review. As a former owner of a Lagoon 42 I can assure you it is a very good boat at that price point. We sailed approx 15,000 miles on ours over a 4 year period and yes that included a fair amount of blue water sailing in up to 12+ft seas. The boat never let us down! Sure, as with any production boats there are issues but the boat I really wanted was 3 times the cost. The issue with the generator is not a Lagoon issue. It is an aftermarket add on. The heads had smells because they most likely needed a new joker valves. A $5 part that should be changed at least annually. On a charter boat with who knows what went into the head I would think these should be checked every 3 months. We never had any issues with the shower drains so can’t address. The bulkheads are NOT a known issue on the 42 so why even bring it up??? Um, leaving windows open in the rain will result in water getting into places you don’t want it to. As a side note, the front windows need to be completely sealed with all latches or they will leak. Again, I’m sure charter users pay attention to this issue. However, as you found out water will run to the lowest level and that is the closet in the owners suite. Just close windows properly when it is raining, wide and dry if water gets in and it is a non issue. The escape hatches is not a Lagoon issue, the recall impacted several manufactures. Finally, doing a review on a 5 year old charter boat is really not an appropriate comparison. As with all boats regular maintenance is required and a charter company is not where I would go to find proper maintenance! Trust me on that one. Lagoons are far from perfect. Just double the price and you will maybe find what you are looking for but at the current price point there is a reason the Lagoon 42 is the most popular catamaran in the market today.

@shanemichael3925

Жыл бұрын

With that being said,👍.

@chrisparker9886

Жыл бұрын

Lagoons are just not a quality boat, this has been common knowledge for years! 😂

@Paul_C

Жыл бұрын

Not only that, he actually knows why he won't buy one: Basically he only is interested in the hire boats. Anyone knows a hire boat at 5 years get sold. The main problem hire boats, they made the money by skipping maintenance. They rarely maintain their fleet, they problem-solve only when something is broken, drop in a repaired unit and Bob's your oncle.

@TheDiverJim

11 ай бұрын

Key word: former. Ask Nahoa’s crew about their 42’s bulkhead issues.

@dougydoolittle5255

Ай бұрын

Isn't the 450 the only model with bulkhead issue? ​@TheDiverJim

Lagoon lousy reputation confirmed. Definitely not blue water yachts.

Having seen the construction quality or lack there of on lagoon boats compared to other manufacturers I not only think the interiors won’t age well but the actual structural integrity of the boats will not last the passage of time. I’m not just taking about the bulk heads but ever single corner cutting, penny pinching, material skimping aspect of how they build boats, from the poor quailing design choices leading to water ingress into important bull heads, to the poor choice in glue, poor application of glue, lack of proper glass work, tabbing, reinforcing, drainage, poorly placed holes near structural components etc etc etc. when compared to other manufactures Lagoon seem like fly by night cow boys looking to make a quick buck.

Video of cracking lagoon kzread.info/dash/bejne/fZ6eq86JqL2fcs4.html

@spaRTan3246

Жыл бұрын

Stop comparing different models… 🙄

@jimdiamond8246

Жыл бұрын

It's funny how some people won't accept that there are some major issues with lagoons .I've spoken with 5 boat building companies south of the equator and none of them would ever sail a Lagoon in the southern ocean .lagoon is built for a price yes but I think it's over priced for what it is .