So nice to see somebody covering the operation of passenger trains - absolutely well done - this subject needs to have far more coverage! 🙂👍 Whilst I cannot pass comment on other regions, as a general overview and up to March 1966 the Southern typically kept its coaches allocated into fixed formations (usually allocated to services within each Division). These sets could be strengthened from a pool of Loose coaches and where a coaching set included catering vehicles (including Pullman cars) these were not specifically allocated to each set. If an issue befell an individual coach it was normal practice for the set to be sent to Lancing (sometimes Eastleigh) works; sets usually entered works for maintenance (including 2½ yearly varnishing /10-yearly painting) as one. In service, the Southern's mainline coaching sets normally had a guard’s compartment at each end; the Southern did not normally operate mainline services with a ‘swinger’ (coach without guard’s compartment) at its rear. Arguably the most common set formation was BTK-TK-BTK - some trains being formed of several sets. There was a huge amount of mail carried - hence the need for large brake vans. Indeed one Southampton train left Reading with three passenger coaches plus five bogie vans carrying mail. How times have changed! 😃

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the extra info - always welcome

Watching stateside. Quite enjoyable, with lots of good information. Have to agree that getting there should be half the fun.

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

If its not fun, do something else - like painting people!!!!!

A guard is there for the safety of the train. That is why there is an emergency brake valve in the guards compartment. Also a container of detonators and a set of track circuit clips. If the train should fail ( break down) it is the guards duty to carry out the rules of protection. Other duties may be added but those are the primary ones.

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Yes indeed - the chap had a lot more to do (and a lot more responsibility) than just checking tickets. The KZread film "Mishap" is worth a watch showing what Joseph has highlighted here.

When researching formations for a 1980's Scottish region layout I quickly came to the conclusion that anything goes up there! It wasn't at all uncommon to see a four-coach train made up entirely of brake coaches. There's also plenty of examples of four-wheel tankers being coupled to the rear of passenger trains. The cherry on the cake was the random inspection saloon coupled to the rear of six mk2a's. Apparently it could be hired as a private carriage and would be coupled to a daily revenue earning service.

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Hi. Scottish Region did do things rather differently - I looked into it when researching a club project. Tankers, if empty, could travel on coaches in England in some circumstances - certainly not when full. Never heard of the Inspection Saloon tail traffic but I'd buy a ticket for that!!!

@KellinoRail

2 күн бұрын

@@yarslowmodelrailway1 great video. I just read this comment and thought I should mention that the services in Scotland did indeed include full tank wagons in their consist. The service ran between Fort William and Mallaig with the out bound leaving Fort William in the early afternoon and the return working coming back in the early evening having swapped the full tanks for empty ones. Something that I'm sure wouldn't be allowed today!! Keep up the great work.

When I was a kid in the Wirral, we had 1st class, 2nd class and 3rd class, same on Liverpool underground.

great explanation! It's a pleasure to see the trains run through that very wide curves!

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

More of the same coming in future updates!!

This subject is a world to itself, but thanks for this insight

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Just a scratch on the surface really!

Always good watching a Yarslow video 👍🏻

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Interesting update as usual Barry. I always go along with Rule 1, but if I can add some authenticity then I will try to and thanks to your bite size bits I can. I will be attending Warley for both days, so excited, I have never been before and really looking forward to it. Hoping to pick up a few bargains fingers crossed. Regards Chris

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Hi Chris. Hope you are doing OK. Enjoy Warley - bad dates for me. I am sure there are plenty of bargains to be had!

Excellent tutorial with a wealth of information which I found enlightening. Thanks👏

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Very useful information! Now you need to do a video on mixed traffic trains!

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Will do soon

Very informative video. I really enjoyed it.

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your comment

OMG!!!! I have been looking for a video like this for weeks!!!!!! Very well explained!!!!! Perhaps you could do a pt. 2? What carriages went with what trains (just major trains) Pullman, teak, blood and custard, maroon. If you can mix liveries for historical accuracy and also maximum train length. But very very informative thank you!

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the suggestion!

Great video, helpful to idiots like me running gauge 1 trains. Seriously, it’s refreshing that someone takes the time and trouble to explain basics of train formations / diagrams, whatever. Great video, much appreciated!

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Thanks. Gauge 1 - super stuff!!!

It's exceedingly confusing, if not downright misleading, that around 8:06 you equate the meaning of 'corridor' with 'vestibule'. For the railway that I model (and for which my family worked), the LMS, the terms 'corridor' and 'vestibule', when used to describe coaches, were mutually exclusive, indicating two distinct types of coach. Both, it is true, had connectors on the end of the coach allowing passengers to pass from one coach to another whilst the train was in motion. But in LMS usage 'vestibule' coaches were gangwayed open coaches with vestibules at either end; the central portion of the coach consisted of passenger seats on either side of an aisle; there were no separate compartments, although composite coaches would have a barrier with a door in it between the sections for the two classes (which were still designated first and third on the LMS). 'Corridor' coaches, in LMS usage, on the other hand, had a corridor going down one side of the coach with separate compartments, each entered from the corridor by its own door, and having two sets of passenger seats, facing each other. At different times during the existence of the company the LMS leant more to building vestibule or corridor stock, as described here, but both types were built throughout the life of the company.

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Hi. I would agree that there is much confusion, often caused by terms we use as modeller that differ from the terms used by railwaymen. Also, terms used differ between companies. The LNER (and others) use the terms "Gangway" and "Non-gangway" to determine whether the coach has connections to adjoining vehicles. "Vestibule" was a term used originally by the LNER in lieu of the word "gangway". BR used it to describe end door stock as opposed to side-door designs. The term "corridor" means a side corridor that connects internal compartment but not neccesarily to another vehicle. Where the LMS used "vestibule" to describe a coach with a central walkway with seats either side, the LNER used the word "Open". I am indebted to Steve Banks and Clive Carter who clearly defined the LNER usage of these terms in their book LNER Passenger Trains and Formations [Ian Allen Publishing]. I was brought up on a diet of David Jenkinson & Bob Essery (I modelled the MR for a long while) and so, having feet in both camps, am happy to accept that there are differences we need to appreciate for our own chosen era and area.

@ewhurstgreen

Жыл бұрын

I can only comment on Southern practice and terminology where the terms Corridor and Non-corridor were used. Inevitably terminology will have differed with other railway companies. On the Southern, vestibule usually referred to the internal circulating areas close to external doors - normally at coach ends and sometimes towards the middle - for example 64' Bulleid stock where a TSK had six external doors. When it came to (say) four coach corridor sets Southern practice normally placed the internal corridor along the same side of the first two adjacent coaches before swapping sides for the second pair. Sets were typically BTK-FK-TK-BTK although many were later reformed to BTK-CK-BTK On three-car corridor sets the sets were normally formed with the 1st class adjacent to the lower numbered BTK (became BSK in 1956).

Very interesting and thanks for the info. I use Dovetail Games's Trainsimulator as model railway in digital form, evidentally I haven't been using enough brake coaches in my passenger trains.

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

a verey enjoyable trip to yarslow

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Another reason why there could be a set up like your Wisney(?) Branch service formation, is that the composite coach is added during the morning and evening rush-hour, while for the rest of the day the train runs with a single brake coach. And it just happens to be easier to shunt the composite on the back of the train.

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Good point Neil. (The train comes from Wythesney)

Thanks for the info. If the loco is required to apply the coach brakes, what is the purpose of the brake coach (other than to house the guard and parcels)?

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Hi Charlie. The guard also has access to the vacuum brake as well as a handbrake, used when the coaches are parked, detached from the loco. The guards space was mostly used for parcels traffic - have a look at coach drawings and note that the poor guard often got a very small space for a desk, chair and store cupboard! He didn't get a lavatory or a stove (as in a goods brake van) but he may have had steam heating if it ran through the train.

@charliecroker7380

Жыл бұрын

@@yarslowmodelrailway1 Thanks for the useful info, I do enjoy your videos.

@chrisredding6673

Жыл бұрын

The Guard was (and still is) the "safety man". He has a quiet life when all is well, but a whole raft of rules to follow when things go wrong (protection /detonator placement / track circuit shorting etc).

@jackx4311

Жыл бұрын

@charliecroker7380 - one vital reason for the brake coach is to allow the guard to be able to apply the brakes to the entire train in an emergency. For example, if one of the passengers is taken seriously ill on a train making a long journey with few stops, the guard would inform the driver so that he could stop at the next station, even if the train was not booked to stop there, where a doctor and / or ambulance could be called. He could also use that brake to stop the train if he saw a door left open, or saw a passenger fall out, or if he noticed a 'hot box' - a wheel bearing which was overheating, and in which the oil was catching fire. HTH

I know this is for British specific. But i model commuter trains of the 20s and it does bug me to see orths mix mashing or puting multiple diners and observation cars when in reality 1 or 2 diners/ cafe cars at most and other than named trains tail cars were moot. Most my trains consist of coaches and combines with occasional a cafe car or a baggage car thrown in. Milk is possible if it is a run through from a branch line and that would be on a dedicated head end car. A RPO could also be added if it was a branch or more significant train.

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Its all about "your era, your area". The GER "Cambridge Beer Trains" were 5 coaches with a buffet in the middle, serving businessmen travelling to meetings and so the train provided a breakfast service. If the catering only covered some of the journey, the kitchen/dining/buffet would be marshalled at one end for easy removal - see Steve Banks's website for loads of details, especially the 1920's.

For Charlie, I think the purpose of the break coach is to enable the guard to stop the coaches if they become detached from the engine. Like the vid. 🚂🙂

@patrickporter6536

Жыл бұрын

Brake

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the Like Ken!

@EllieMaes-Grandad

Жыл бұрын

Should coaches become detached, air/vacuum pipes come apart, then everything would stop automatically, in a fast and furious manner.

@kenfox7917

Жыл бұрын

@@EllieMaes-Grandad sorry Mike, I'll get something right one day, according to the law of averages. Best Regards. Ken

And it must be continuous brake through all the coaches. Second class was abandoned by the MR all third class was improved and the two classes were 1st& 3rd into the mid sixties I believe

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

..until we adopted "Standard" - yukk!!

@highdownmartin

Жыл бұрын

@@yarslowmodelrailway1 1956 Third becomes second. Customers. Standard. Train station. Indeed yuk

Interesting video. Are these "rules" internationally applicable?

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

I can only speak for the UK in my area and my era. Some rules are universal in the UK but I have no international knowledge. I can imagine that some countries have fewer rules than others!!!

@tomsmaerklintrainlayout6742

Жыл бұрын

@@yarslowmodelrailway1 Thanks for your response. I can imagine that some of these rules are universally applicable (like for flammable goods etc.), so far I have no British freight trains, just a couple of Orient Express passenger trains.

Just a tad confused... I follow the vesibule = corridor coach explanation, but is it also known as a composite coach? Or does composite merely refer to the 'forced' combination of first and second class passengers in the same coach?

@gs425

Жыл бұрын

Composite does indeed mean mixture of classes in the same coach.

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Yes MaboPete, "Composite" means a mixture of 1st & 2nd or 1st & 3rd in old money. Vestibule coaches had connections to other coaches. The Gresley non-vestibule "Lav Composite" coaches on my Coastal train have corridors to allow access to the lavatories but they do not have vestibules and corridor connections to the adjoining coaches. Thats where it gets very confusing - especially as we refer to "Corridor" coaches when we mean "Vestibuled".

@MaboPete

Жыл бұрын

@@yarslowmodelrailway1 The light bulb has come on now - thank you very much for explaining it like that. I wasn't considering the 'through connection' between the coaches.

@MaboPete

Жыл бұрын

@@gs425 Thank you - it puzzled me and never quite got an answer 'nailed'...

@gs425

Жыл бұрын

@@MaboPete Its a pleasure Peter. We have a good online model railway community.

Very informative overview thank you! 🙂 Rule 1 exception being slip coaches (sorry - cough) 😉 (Still needed to start out behind a locomotive of course) BTW BloodandCustard website has interesting coverage on the 1956 abolition of 2nd class thence 3rd class immediately renamed 2nd class.

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comments

@z526gaming9

Жыл бұрын

wellllll pedant time. the statement was a locomotive that's vacuum fitted, you can have air brakes. of course all of this only really counts after 1889 so if you model era 2 before then you're on a railway by railway basis as to who thought they could get away with ignoring the board of trade and their recommendations. Also if you ever got busted riding without a ticket that came in with the same act of parliament is that gave us regulation of continuous braking for passenger trains. Remember the good old days when you could get away with no ticket without a fine not have to give your details to an agent of the railways over the matter if caught and get mangled in a crash caused by lack of or insufficient provision of braking capacity... what a time to be alive...

One correction, sir; you say the loco must be able to apply the vacuum brake throughout the train - but it was perfectly legal from the Regulation of Railways Act (1889) for air brakes to be used as an alternative. The LBSCR used Westinghouse air brakes on the 0-6-0T Terriers, and the LNER on their 4-6-0 B12s.

@yarslowmodelrailway1

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the clarification Jack. We make the assumption that everyone used vacuum but, of course, that was not the case!