Thank you for the video. I just used this method, after watching the video. It took me 2 days, with the help of some friends, to run 3600 ft. The video answered many questions I had before getting started, and made the job go much more smoothly than if I had just "winged it" Thanks for the video.

I don’t know if anyone has commented on this yet, but I’ve found a fatal flaw in this method, trying it myself. Around 1:08, when he starts running through the first joist, you should create a small loop right at this point; and create a small loop for each bay as you go along. Otherwise, it is extremely hard to avoid kinks once it is all run down the line and you try and create your loops after the fact. I’m using 1/2” oxygen barrier pex in 16” bays, and, “Oh my word, the kinks!” Ambient temp is in the 60°s here. Tried using a heat gun to soften before looping, and that just made the kinks more severe! It will take a little longer to get setup on the front end making a loop in each joist bay at the outset, but you will save yourself *so much frustration* over trying to do your loops later on.

@JMSessink

2 жыл бұрын

So something like this in each joist |➰|➰|➰|➰|➰|➰| Makes sense! That will save me some trouble when I go through with this in a few weeks. Thanks (and thanks Joe)

@InfinityCleaning

2 жыл бұрын

@@JMSessink , yeah, one mistake I think I made was drilling holes that were too small for the tubing. If I had doubled the size of the holes, I imagine the kinks wouldn’t have been such an issue. I definitely recommend playing around with both methods a bit before committing to one or the other.

@davidperalta5280

Жыл бұрын

@@InfinityCleaning thinking you could avoid most kinking by creating opposing twists every other joist bay. Such as odd number bays, left crossed over right, even number bays right crossed over left. That way the twists cancel each other out. Similar to when you coil a cable and want it to lay flat.

I wish I seen your video sooner. Much easier method of running PEX than how I installed ours. Great tip!

Wow! This is amazing! I'm really grateful for your explanation and very impressed by the time and energy you must have put into this model. I really appreciate it and I just subscribed. You're awesome!!

Joe that helped a ton with being able to visualize the install!

Great idea on how to Place the pex. thanks for making it so simple.

Tried this method on 6 zones and it worked flawlessly. Since you are pulling from the reel all the time i think its a time saver because you arent pulling slack through all the loops...you are establishing the loops as you go.

i have put an addition on my house and we are doing this very same thing . thanks this is awesome information the best yet. 2 thumbs up thank you

Thanks for making this model and explaining a good method!

Brilliantly done! Thank you so much for a superb and explanatory video.

Without a doubt, an excellent primer for anyone doing this first time.

Thank you so much! We are looking into heating system options for the 1858 Victorian we are buying. It currently has a boiler and hideous baseboard heaters. I was considering modern radiators, and might still for upstairs, but this would be wonderful on the first floor without having to disturb the old wood plank flooring. Love!

Thank you so much. Makes so much sense.

Great video Joe. I used this method on most of the floor joist installs in my house. The problem I'm having is thermal loss across the rooms. What I mean is that the floor on the side of the room where the loops begin is substantially warmer than the far end of the room (farthest from where the loops begin.). By the time the water has travelled half way through the loop of tubing, it has lost most of it's heat and for this reason, I'm considering my next two rooms to run the pex down each bay, cross into the next bay, and then back down that bay and so on, leaving a single tube in each bay. Once I get to the end of the last bay I'll bring then back through in the same manner so that each bay has 2 tubes. The difference is that the middle point of the loop will be at the far end of the room. This should allow the hotter water to get further across the floor before losing the majority of it's heat. I hope I explained that right. Either way, I'm hoping this method will minimize the thermal effect I'm having with the rooms done in the manner you explain here. I'm not sure if anyone else has experienced this problem. Maybe it's just me - lol - but it's something I want to avoid when I run the loops in my next rooms. I know this video is old - I remember when it was new. That's why I did mine this way. But I just figured that anyone considering this method may want to consider this thermal loss effect I experienced and, even more-so, I'm hoping others may read this and give their opinion on what I'm considering, especially if they have already tried my idea and whether it did or didn't work. Either way, even though my setup has issues - this method was an absolute gamechanger! It is genius in it's simplicity and the fact that Joe took the time to create a scale model to "show" us how to do it is awesome! I think it's a shame that Joe doesn't post more videos as he clearly has a knack for it. I know I certainly benefitted from this one. Thanks Joe.

@bigdumbanimal23

2 ай бұрын

Hi TJ, did your modification work better? It seems to make sense.

Hi Joe, great video. I was looking at ultra fin but than saw you product. Can you tell me why yours is better. Can you please also give me guidance on how you would insulate the bays. I have a few ideas on it but curious of your thoughts. Thanks so much, Erik

This is a clever pattern. Thanks! However, I wonder as others have how to avoid kinking at the end of inter-joist space.

Good luck pulling pex and forming a loop as shown in 4:14. If your joists are 24" oc maybe, but 16" oc forget it. Form your loop before you go to the next joist. There's videos showing it.

Very helpful thanks!

Great explanation!

Hi Joe, I enjoyed the video. One question and one comment. Question - Does using these transfer plates which makes contact between the PEX and the floor create sound? Sound similar to the contracting and expanding ticking noises that would be created from using straight stables. I found transfer plates that go the opposite way, where the pipe is compressed into the heat transfer plate from the bottom and only the back of the aluminium plate is touching the floor, what are you comments on these style of plates?

Joe, I tried to run my pex tubing in the way you described in your video and I found it to be problematic. First, you run your pex through all of the 4" holes, then turn and run your pex through the 12" holes back to the manifold. This means you have to pull the pex through all of the 12" holes each time you want to pull a joist loop. Each hole offers increased resistance and it can be very difficult to pull, especially if you're doing a zone that's far away and has additional resistance the pex needs to go through even before reaching the zone. A much better way is to go through the 12" holes *first*, create each loop as you travel through the 12" holes, and then go back to the manifold straight through the 4" holes. In other words, go through the first 12" hole, with the end of the pex make a good sized loop for that bay, then put the end through the next 12" hole, make a loop etc. Each time you need more pex you simply pull the first loop bigger, then the second, third, etc, in an iterative fashion instead of all at once. This way you're only pulling pex through one hole at a time, instead of 9+ as shown in your model. This also completely eliminates the chance of the pex kinking when you attempt to pull a loop.

@joestagg72

7 жыл бұрын

you got it backwards run through the 12" holes from your roll first then the 4" holes goes back to the manifold. If you are still having trouble email me and ill give you my phone number to call me.

@sidaphongsavanh6770

7 жыл бұрын

Joe Stagg lo. .

Check out my other videos that I made when I installed radiant heat under my master bathroom. One shows me twisting and pulling the PEX down the joist bay like I talk about in this video. They are not the greatest videos but I hope they can be of help to people. Here is some information about the aluminum double heat transfer plates for radiant floor or ceiling installations. These are to use with 1/2 inch PEX tubing with an outside diameter of 0.625 (5/8) inches. The plates are 24 inches long and 12 inches wide with two groves roughly 8" apart. So each heat plate transfers a total of 4 linear feet of heated PEX pipe. I have installed many of these plates and found that the double plates cut down on installation time. The way they cut down on time is that when you are putting your first row up using one side of the plate, when you make the loop going back it goes much faster because the plate is hanging there ready for the pipe. FYI We found that a pneumatic (1/4") crown stapler works the best because they are powerful enough to penetrate the thick plates and it enables us to use short length staples so as to not penetrate the floor thickness. If you buy 2 or more boxes we would be willing to throw in a 1/4" crown stapler for only $30 this includes shipping, let us know if you want this offer. Plates start out at $2.95 each and then depending on the quantity you want we will start to discount them. These plates should be placed close together when by an outer wall or where heat losses are great, and can be placed further apart in interior spaces where heat losses diminish. If you need assistance in figuring how many double heat plates you need for your project, just let us know we will help anyway we can. We usually package them 100 per box so we can fit them in a large box to offer economy shipping. This means a better price for you the buyer. we also sell different box quantities, contact us if you need a substantial amount or an odd number. To help you compare to other suppliers, one of our 24" long double plates covers 4 linear feet of pipe, and there are 100 plates in a box so that makes 400 linear feet of heat transfer. One other factor to consider is that the width of our plates are 12". Compare that to 4 to 5 inches with other manufactures that sell the single plates. Your getting increased heat transfer with our double plates. After scraping off the paint, the actual metal thickness of the plates are .018" or 25 gauge. Our plates are coated on both sides to protect from corrosion as compared to most un-coated aluminum plates. Colors may vary. These are factors to consider when choosing a manufacture. Shipping occurs within three working days of cleared payment (usually PayPal). If this is inconvenient let us know and we will try our hardest to serve you the best we can. E-mail me your zip code for a accurate shipping charge. We can custom make single groove and double groove plates various lengths up to 24" and widths up to 12". We also make heat transfer plates for 3/4" Pex tubing. Contact us if you need a substantial amount or a smaller quantities to sample. Please don't hesitate to ask us any question you might have. Here is a quote we got the other day from one of our satisfied customer about our double heat plates. (Just installed yesterday, seemed less time consuming than other plates I have bought.) And another Joe, they arrived yesterday and I have been installing all day. Thanks for an excellent product delivered in a very timely way. If you ever need a reference, I would be happy to oblige. -John H. (1-12-2018) And another. Joe, can you send me another 130 plates, these are working so well i'm going to do an additional area. Kyle H. (3-17-2018) MADE IN THE U.S.A. twisting

Amazing thank you

Thanks!

Hi Joe Great idea. I'l be using it for sure. Questions: I have a small Kitchen that I am renovating. I'm changing it to a galley style so there will be no room for a radiator. It's above a bedroom in my basement. I'm wanting to install radiant heat this way so I'll be ripping down the basement ceiling shortly. I'm assuming it's not necessary to run the cable under the cabinets (or is it?). If not, how far away from the cabinets should the cabling be. The total square footage of the kitchen is 150 so it's small. Also, running the cable from the manifold which will be in my furnace room (approx. 20ft.) through a bulkhead used for the supply and return of rads in other parts of my house. Can it be loose or do I need to open up the bulkhead and affix the cable somewhere or do I need to fish the cable elsewhere away from these supply pipes (cast iron I think). One more thing, I can't seem to find anything relating to being able to individually regulate the temperature of the room once installed. Is there such a thing?

@joestagg72

6 жыл бұрын

I am probably not going to have the best answers for some of your questions, but I will try. I dont see any reason you would need to put heat pipes under your cabinets, but I would go close to them. As far as the bulkhead question, as long as the PEX pipe can handle the temps of the cast iron pipes I would say go ahead and run in in there loose. You could always open it up later if you needed to affix it due to noise or other issues. As far as your regulating the temp in that room, I am not sure if this would work but look into the idea of putting a separate pump or valve for that run and have it run off a thermostat in the kitchen. If I am off on any of my advice i'm sure someone smarter than I will chime in. Thanks for watching and good luck with your project.

very smart. sure its difficult . but work wise its smarter.

Hi Joe, do you think I can cut this in instead of return of my baseboard to sort of harness residual heat of the water coming out of baseboards? Sort of hijack the return pipe? Or separate zone is a must?

Great video, does it matter the type of flooring above? I have floating hardwood and under it is a cushion.

@joestagg72

7 жыл бұрын

They recommend installing foil faced insulation below the heat plates to force the heat upward. I would say the fact that the foil faced insulation is better than the cushion the heat will go up through the cushion with no problem. Thanks and good luck to you.

How do you deal with bridges in the joists

I like the idea, but if you have blocking in your joist bays, which I do, this method can only be used in between the blocking, and not the full run of a bay. Also, drilling new holes for each circuit can be significantly more effort depending on the layout of the floor. I'd call this an alternate way, but not necessarily a better way to run your pex. Also, how do you feel about using a single 7/8" thin wall pex run rather than, rather two 1/2"? Saves alot of time and material as long as your joists are 16" oc.

@joestagg72

7 жыл бұрын

I'll agree this does not work better for every situation. To answer you about 7/8" pex. using the traditional 1/2" with heat transfers method is probable going to be a more uniform heating than using one 7/8" run with heat transfers. I just have not worked around the 7/8" method to know which one i would use over the other in certain situations. Thanks for your interest and comments.

Joe, you begin by threading yellow cable thru holes drilled 12" in and moving to right before turning corner, threading thru 4" holes and moving to left. Am I correct in thinking that boiler/heating apparatus will need to be located at site where threading began?

@joestagg72

7 жыл бұрын

yes in my diagram that's where the boiler would be But that can be changed depending on your setup.

I'm looking at switching from radiant baseboard heating to radiant floor heating. I'm doing a major remodel of my three story home in Incline Village NV. Thoughts? I'd also like to use a heat pump.

Is there a problem with crossing the Pex tubing over itself. Should a physical separator be fashioned so they don't touch?

Thank you for the video. If the Pex tubing is 1/2 in. why not drill holes 3/4 inch. Wouldn't this be a big enough hole. Thanks

@joestagg72

7 жыл бұрын

Im sure it really doesn't matter I figure it just puts less stress on the pipe when you are turning after the hole.

What do you do if there’s joist blocking in between joist bays?

I am just learning, but how do you separate ZONES using this method? I have 7 zones that I want to control... ty

Anyone have experience doing this in a very cold and damp basement? Will condensation be an issue? I want to heat the floor above but would prefer not to heat the baseent.. so weondering if vapor barrier and insulation is feasable or not in such na damp environment..

Our upstairs has hardwood flooring that was nailed into, and through, the subfloor. How can we install pex radiant with heat shields if we have a bunch of nails tips in the way? Thanks - and BTW - great model!

@trashpanda2396

5 жыл бұрын

I've done 2 jobs with tips of nails from flooring above and had to use a cut off wheel in a 4" grinder to cut them off flush first. Not fun but it's the only way we could think to do it. Good luck!

Joe, Do you make these plates in narrower widths? The distance between floor joists on my home is typically 12" but sometimes as little as 10".

@joestagg72

5 жыл бұрын

Mark Hooker yes we can custom make to whatever width you need. Email me at staggradiant@yahoo.com and I can get you some prices.

@CC-jy4gr

4 жыл бұрын

@@joestagg72 are you still selling this in canada/

Please Please comment if this helps anyone out. I would appreciate any feedback good or bad.

Kink the tubes?? Looks easy with strings.

@joestagg72

6 жыл бұрын

Make sure you try the twist that I talk about at the 4:20 mark in the video. if its cold when your doing it, It does makes it harder. You can try heating it up a little with a heat gun before you twist and pull.

@michaelwhouse46

5 жыл бұрын

Joe Stagg jjj

Is anyone using 3/8" pex tubing for underfloor heating. It seems as though it would be easier to thread through the joist bays. I read that the 3/8 could carry enough heat to do the job. Only problem is the pressure drop but I don't know how significant of a drop that would be. Thanks!

@joestagg72

6 жыл бұрын

We have in the past made some heat plates for someone that was using 3/8 tubing. So if you end up going this route and would like to look into buying some of our plates, just let me know. Good luck and God bless.

@say_goodnight7342

5 жыл бұрын

It's not about pressure, it'd about volume really.

Can I run 160 degree water in a radiant loop with PEX? How many BTUs can it deliver per running foot? Trying to piece in a replacement for (roughly) a 10 ft baseboard radiator I will be removing in a kitchen remodel. Was considering a kick heater but the customer has a lot of animals in the house so figured that will clog up with dog hair all the time.

@joestagg72

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry I am not able to answer your questions.

I love radiant floor heat but if the power goes down your screwed. Has anyone developed a gravity system that would work with an outdoor boiler system?

@drew812w

6 жыл бұрын

Brad Lee besides a fireplace or stove, any other heating system won't work without electricity......

@bengoerzen712

5 жыл бұрын

Not sure if you've dealt with this yet or not, but there is a lot of thermal mass stored in the boiler or hot water tank where the water is supplied from. ALSO an interesting thought - radiant floor heating is a great opportunity for PV Direct - running solar panels to a heating element right in your water tank. the tank and system act as the battery.

why is it twisted and not just run straight?

Do not do this. You will kink your pex if you are working with a standard 16" floor joist layout. The part at 4:18 is the problem because the pex (even pex A) does not have enough flexibility to go from straight to looped. I learned the hard way.

At 5:37 you talk about taking advantage of the straight run at the 4" mark. I don't see how over 14 1/2" you can make enough contact to make it worthwhile.

@joestagg72

6 жыл бұрын

jinxer3006 For most applications it may not be needed. If this wall were to be an outside wall I would do the extra work to ensure this area had as much heat as I could offer and install transfer plates where possible.

Where can I get these plates

Why do you have to keep twisting please exsplain

Seems like it would be hard to get started with possible kink just getting it through each bay

@joestagg72

5 жыл бұрын

At first you will want to take your time, tell you understand how to pull and do the twist I talk about. I talk about how it is handy to have a heat gun available to warm the pipe up, definitely in cold temperatures.

@AsG_4_

5 жыл бұрын

@@joestagg72 you've done this method before ?

@joestagg72

5 жыл бұрын

adam G yes

Certainly an easy way to install but not recommended for an even transfer to the room above. The first few bays can be warmer than the last few. This is why the more difficult installation (every other track on the feed and same on return) is most commonly recommended

@joestagg72

4 жыл бұрын

Jesse Vennard if I understand the method you are taking about the difference is very minimal. Feel free to email me. I wouldn’t mind having a conversation about this. And thanks for the comment

Can you do this with 3/4 pex?

@joestagg72

2 жыл бұрын

I would say no.

Joe- Where are you located. Any interest in a job in or around Glassboro N.J? Thanks.

@joestagg72

7 жыл бұрын

We don't install anymore sorry

@CC-jy4gr

4 жыл бұрын

@@joestagg72 why not?

I have hardwood installed with thousands of nails petruding so I have to grind them off I assume.

@joestagg72

7 жыл бұрын

ya i cant think of a better way other than grinding them off.

@unimogdave

7 жыл бұрын

This would be my concern as well, while might follow this process, my pipe will be a couple inches below the floor and then likely a noise and fire rated insulation below, to protect the pre-man joists as they are a fire hazard.

@mudbutt7224

4 жыл бұрын

I believe it's called a hanger

wont work, last run will be cold , it might save you a little money, but it wont work, you have one run going 1000 ft in a 20x20 room, do you think it would work?

@joestagg72

7 жыл бұрын

Let me educate you just a little bit. Nobody would suggest anyone using a 1000 ft loop. 300 is a max typical length for a loop to and from the manifold. at about the 5 minute 20 second mark I stop half way through my model and say to go as far as that roll will take you. I assume most people are using 300 ft rolls because they are easier to handle. Some of these supply places will give you a zone and pipe layout of your house for free. For a 20' X 20' room you would need 2 loops of around 300 feet and would need approximately 120 of my double heat transfer plates.

@user-io3hy4zb4s

6 жыл бұрын

Joe Stagg nicely said. Frank and honest is a good way to deal with naysayers.

How do I create zones with this method

@thenexthobby

Жыл бұрын

Use manifolds for both supply & return for each run of PEX

What is the maximum temp of water you can run through the pex? I built an open system boiler and my water got up to a consistent 170+ degrees and stayed there about 6 hours without restoking the burn chamber. If I have excessive heat, above the normal 120 degrees, do the transfer plates do much more than I can get with the pex ran under the floor between the basement joists? This is a retrofit on a 40 year old house.

@joestagg72

4 жыл бұрын

WaterStreet Woodworks Thanks for watching my video and commenting. Sorry I don’t have answers for your temperature question. But most everyone will tell you, you would be wasting your time if you were not to install heat transfer plates of some sort. Thanks and good luck on your project.

I would really like you to answer the questions that were asked. When you answer some and not others seems like you are dodging.

@joestagg72

7 жыл бұрын

Not sure what you are referring too. I check and reply most to my e-mail and more often if you have some questions and or want my number to call me.