I don’t know if this is useful, but chapter 7 in The Atheist Handbook to the Old Testament (Volume 2) is all about these types of connections and mythological borrowings in the OT. Here’s the link: tinyurl.com/ycxfmeur Really excited about my course coming out soon!

@icypirate11

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Dr. Josh! I have both your volumes sitting on my bookshelf and I will be signing up for your MVP course as soon as it's available.

@donalddotson-cw5ll

Жыл бұрын

Adams life giving orgasm semen, fertilizes Eve's embryos cells. And she is pregnant. But if he pulls out before ejaculation, or she swallows the semen instead. Then the child isn't even able to come into the world in the first place. People haven't considered to be thinking about the book of genesis origins narratives from this type of the human sexual procreation storyline. Men wrote then selectively chose certain books to correlate into the early books of every religion in the ancient superstitious world. ALL RELIGIONS are based on SUPERNATURAL SUPERSTITIOUS MYTHS AND LEGENDARY FAIRYTALES STORYLINES RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.

@robertmitchell8630

Жыл бұрын

@@donalddotson-cw5ll What kind of God is Yahweh? Yahweh was an ancient Levantine deity that emerged as a "divine warrior" worshiped first in Edom, and later in Canaan as the national god of ancient Israelites and Judahites. The origins of his worship reach at least to the early Iron Age, and likely to the Late Bronze Age if not somewhat earlier. How did an ancient warrior storm God became an Israelite national God.

@DigitalHammurabi

Жыл бұрын

@@icypirate11 🥹🙌🙌🙌

@DeesmanO

Жыл бұрын

That handbook is only worth anything to an atheist Anyone actually trying to learn about God and actually knows what the Bible actually says can refute it because there is alot in the Bible not explained in Canon The nonconacle books have other hints the somewhat finish the sentences of some parts of the kjb Alot of the old testament cannot be understood without reading 1enoch the same way Mathew mark Luke and John are the same story as told from the view of different viewpoints

Some thoughts: * God deliberately created us without the ability to know right from wrong. Then punished us for doing something wrong. * We were allowed to eat from the tree of life prior to our becoming gods. We were banished to prevent us becoming immortal gods who would then have the time to grow to rival him. * God says in the psalms, 'I have told you, you are gods, although you will die as mortals'. * The Christian story is one of God repenting of his decision to deny us immortality and allowing us to become rival gods. * Christians insist their religion is monotheistic. A claim not made by God. He forbids the jews from worshipping other gods. Why bother if there aren't any?

@junkaccount2535

2 ай бұрын

The book of Enoch pretty much answers all of your objections. The little g gods that Most High Yahweh God is commenting on in the Psalms is the Watchers which were bound in chains for corrupting the worship of Yahweh throughout the existing nations God had placed them over at that time. The rebellion of the angels and creation of Nephilim, half human half god, and their souls being demons.

@OdelinSerrano-zu5fo

Ай бұрын

My friend, please research. It's obvious to me that you're as confused as I was. I highly recommend reading Genesis in its' original Ancient Hebrew. There you will find answers. I will correct you on one thing: Elohim is an umbrella term used to cover numerous beings, including angels, demons, disembodied humans, etc. Yahweh, the Creator, is also Elohim. However, there is ONLY ONE of Him. When He said "gods" He was referring to the Devine council whom He allowed to participate in some aspects of deciding things. I saw a video recently that cleared a lot of my confusion. The late Dr. Michael Heiser is known for scholarly contributions to understanding original scripture connotations. He has a PhD in ancient Semetic languages and Hebrew scriptures. I will opine that your current understanding of the Word is inaccurate, as mine was, until I watched Dr Heiser explain things using the original biblical language. Good luck, my friend. BTW, I think part of my confusion can be attributed to the narrative put out by some churches. For example, Jehovah Witnesses say the body and the soul is the same thing. But Christ clearly said, "do not be afraid of those who can kill the body but CANNOT kill the soul. Instead, be afraid of Him Who can kill BOTH the body and the soul...." There are some profound facts about his sentence,, especially the divergence of the body and soul. Take care, my good friend.

@thehundredthmonkey5972

Ай бұрын

Because Yahweh is “the murderer from the beginning” , he is The Deceiver. The True Father is within You and not in religion or or a church or in Old Testament contradictions. Yahweh is the god of this material world, the lesser jealous evil creator that traps souls in the cycle of rebirth. Because he knew our potential he has gaslit us from the very start. He is the archetypal narcissist and he himself is The Adversary the adversary of You.

@junkaccount2535

Ай бұрын

@@thehundredthmonkey5972 that’s just Gnosticism. If anyone has read Genesis, Enochian and Antideluvian period literature, you can very easily see why the Satan of the Bible would want you to believe this.

@sonofman9404

Ай бұрын

Ha, do you mean worshipping gods like Dagon and Baal both of whom whom couldn't stand when thrown down or draw fire from the sky to consume Elijah's meat challenge? Clearly, they are frauds and god doesn't want you worshipping them in vain and reaping his wrath for disobedience.

I promise you don't want to miss the 18 lecture course by Dr. Kipp Davis "Real Ancient Israelite Religions." mythvisionpodcast.com/israelite-religions I'm currently editing two courses with Dr. Joshua Bowen which cover Biblical Slavery and Ancient Myths That Influenced The Bible. Tell me what your favorite parts of this video down below.

@raya.p.l5919

Жыл бұрын

❤Attention sheep here a little secret. After u read u will experience a great power. But if I'm lying u won't feel a thing. The Illuminati aka fallen angels aliens NASA what ever you want to call them in there flying tin cans. Can't get out of lower orbit because of the vacuum. Universe is only 77 thousand SQ miles big breathable air through out space angels have to breath. Mars is only 250 miles away sun an moon are much closer an only a acre big. Heaven is on Mars moon that's what all the thrusters are for space x Star ship try to punch through the vacuum and destroy Mars moon heaven. I cleaned out hell left the light's on. I ripped the soul out the devil after he went dragon just to make it a fair fight. Now u can experience Jesus healing energy all old aches and pains will be washed away takes 30 minutes best to relax and shut yr eyes. Warning it is intense😮

An earlier version has been found in Bronze Age Ugarit. Adam had been one of the gods led by El. Their enemy Horon in form of a snake poisoned the Tree of Life, the source of immortality, which began to spread the poison and needed to be destroyed. Adam was the god who tried first to accomplish that but got poisoned too, before El and the other gods could eventually overpower Horon and destroy the poisoned Tree. Adam was not punished for anything, but rewarded and compensated for his loss. They couldn't change anymore that Adam was mortal now and couldn't stay, but decided to create Eve for him so that they could procreate and live on in form of their descendants. Over 800 years later, the Bible made the story only worse and weirder after all.

@a.jperez202

Жыл бұрын

What's your source for this?

@DrKippDavis

Жыл бұрын

This sounds like bullshit to me.

@metastatic746

Жыл бұрын

@@a.jperez202 Yes, please, source!

@a.jperez202

Жыл бұрын

@@metastatic746 Found it. Its a monograph titled, "Adam, Eve, and the Devil: A New Beginning" by Marjo C. A. Korpel and Johannes C. De Moor.

@reinercelsus8299

Жыл бұрын

@@a.jperez202 Yes, exactly. I found the story in the german Wikipedia, on Ugarit and also on Adam and Eve.

Never give up the path you guys are taking, you are helping the collective conscious minds

@letsomethingshine

Жыл бұрын

I think you just mean wider culture , but yes these are important considerations. A person of a religion has to work a way around the dissonance from the lies they were previously happily told about uniqueness and “unlikelyhood.”

@exploittheworld

Жыл бұрын

Everyone focuses on this kind of stuff, but no one seems to want to answer what is it that Jesus actually said and did that was so harmful or wrong?

@debrapaulino918

Жыл бұрын

​@@exploittheworldThese speakers changed from what you think.

@exploittheworld

Жыл бұрын

@debrapaulino918 what do you mean changed. In what way or from what?

@marionfowler4270

Жыл бұрын

@@exploittheworld For me the worst is summed up in Luke 14 : 26 . It should be considered child abuse to teach kids to hate themselves. It sure fucked up my life.

I think that, to an extent, the story of the Fall of Adam and Eve represents the misgivings of the parent upon seeing their children grow up. Knowledge reserved for adults is kept from the children, the parent trying to make it look more scary than it is in order to prolong that precious time where the child really *is* a child rather than teen or adult offspring. A futile endeavour, one the parent *knows* is futile and ultimately counterproductive. The parent *wants* the child to achieve that hidden knowledge, but not just yet. And once the child has grown up, there's no way back: the child will have to make their own way in the world, and staying at home would only bring suffering. So the parent sends them on their way, issuing dire warnings about what is to be yet accepting the inevitable and staying close enough to heed a call. I think this may well be the metaphor behind the whole motif, its ultimate origin.

@kudzaimasvingise9163

11 ай бұрын

That's exactly what I've been thinking too

@noorzanayasmin7806

9 ай бұрын

From what I understand to get the knowledge of everything at once is a temptation. No one should get all the knowledge at once because their brain cannot comphrehend it, hence they will perish. So it is not so much the fear that the child will grow up as soon as they know the knowledge but more so knowing everything comes with great responsiblity which they were not ready for.

@projectsantana4400

6 ай бұрын

Like letting a 3 years old make decisions of they gender right. So much love and safety in that.

@john.premose

3 ай бұрын

Yours is certainly 100x better than the orthodox Christian interpretation.

@john.premose

3 ай бұрын

​@@projectsantana4400wow how pathetic that you had to try to insert your invidious politics into it. It's very satisfying that you were completely ignored.

NEVER trust ANYONE wearing a rainbow bow tie ( not even a clown). They are the same 🤡

something I never understood about Genesis, which pretty much set me on my path to atheism starting at age 12, is why Yahweh would put the Tree of Knowledge within the Garden if Yahweh didn't want Adam and Eve to eat of its fruit. If the tree absolutely had to be within the Garden, couldn't Yahweh have put a tall fence around it, or maybe put it at the very top of an inaccessible mountain? Or maybe make the tree all thorny like a silk floss or a honey locust, with leaves like a poison oak, and the fruit all bitter and prickly? It's as though Yahweh _wanted_ Adam and Eve to mess with that special tree and to eat its no-no fruit. ... If Adam and Eve were created _without_ the knowledge of good and evil, surely that would include a lack of any sense of consequences. How could they comprehend that any action is bad if they have no idea what "bad" is?? You've just created the first humans; they've only been around for a very short amount of time; they have no knowledge whatsoever of good or evil, right or wrong; and yet you expect them to behave like knowledgeable and rational adults with decades of life experience?? You're basically telling a toddler not to eat the yummy-looking cookie that you carelessly leave on a small table, well within their reach, then you leave the toddler for an extended period of time all while expecting it to leave the cookie alone. Whose fault is it, really? And using the threat of death on Adam and Eve would've been utterly pointless since they would have had no idea what death was up to that point. Also, if Yahweh is Omniscient, then why was it shocked and angry to find out that A&E did what they did? Hell, why did Yahweh have to call out to them to find out where they were? How can Yahweh be angry at Adam and Eve if Yahweh KNEW well in advance that they would eat the no-no fruit? You created all the right conditions to have your creation disobey your order, then you get pissed off at them for following the script. Seems like a deity that was bored and decided to cook up an elaborate scheme to have something to be angry at. I can only imagine what a conversation between Adam and Eve would've been like after that encounter with Yahweh. Adam: "Wait, _what_ tree did Big Sky Man say was a no-no?" Eve: "I dunno, maybe the one with the scary-looking stuff on it?" Adam: "How will we know if the tree stuff is scary-looking?" Eve: {Shrugs} Adam: "...And then he said 'you will die,' or something, if we eat the scary-looking stuff from the spooky tree? What does _that_ mean??" Eve: "What? I could swear he said 'you will surely make a pie...' Whatever that is." Adam: {Repeats the word "die" several times} "No, I'm pretty sure he said 'you will die.'" Eve: "Well what the hell is that supposta mean?!" Adam: {Shrugs} "No clue. Maybe it's some kind of game, like 'Name That Thing'?"

@KravMagoo

Жыл бұрын

Because the serpent getting into the garden and deceiving them into eating was the plan. YHWH wanted humans to cope with sin...that's why His Son was "slain from the foundation of the world". These three people, scholars in general, and Jews and Christians...none of them understand what's happening in the Bible.

@ethanhenagan8442

10 ай бұрын

Wow…. That’s amazing. You know I heard someone say they were alive for 9 hours. I wish I remember where I saw that at. It was def on KZread.. ​​⁠but I’ve also thought of it this way about the “Lord God” in genesis and how life came about since we know God created man and women in genesis 1. In genesis 2 it says “Lord God” and we know that the fallen angels were on earth during this time. What if that Lord God was actually Lucifer.. and Lucifer had sex with Mary and also Adam had sex with her which made the twins. But one is the blood line of Lucifer and the other ofAdam 😳😳😳😱😱

I was also wondering as Derik asked the question: Why not eat from the tree of knowledge, while later God said, (people perish due to lack of knowledge of His Word) meaning understanding what God's plan and purpose is. "People perish due to lack of knowledge" 😮

@2FollowHim777

Жыл бұрын

Hi, 'KNOWLEDGE ...OF..good AND evil. Only God can know BOTH simultaneously. There's knowledge of 'righteousness'.

@js8270

Жыл бұрын

​@2FollowHim777 So you are either created good or created evil and our predisposition is determined and freewill is rubbish?

“and they saw that they were naked.” And Adam said,”hot damn!” 😊

@davekearney1944

Жыл бұрын

She was the hottest woman on the planet!!

@wilfredmancy

Жыл бұрын

Ha, ha, I think it means they suddenly realised they were totally exposed and totally dead, not up to the task on their own.

@andreatheherbalist

Жыл бұрын

😂

One of the greatest gifts that my life has had was (ironically) spending almost 4 yrs in Iraq. Apart from the war, killing, bombings, shootings, etc., was the chance to SEE WHERE civilization STARTED!! To BE in “Babylon”/Baghdad, Nineveh, Mosul, Kirkuk, etc. was something that I will always cherish and loathe simultaneously. But it opened my eyes to religions and beliefs that I would have never seen had it not been for war and what religion does to people. MANY a relics were destroyed by religious zealots. Why? They believed that THEY were being “righteous” according to THEIR beliefs/God. I only hope that this madness of religion ends one day!

@samreh6156

Жыл бұрын

I have deep respect for you but have to disappoint you concerning religion. I think it's wired into people 's psyche and most won't be able to escape its hold.

@ChillAssTurtle

Жыл бұрын

​@@samreh6156a great many defects afflict us but that doesn't mean we should work to cure ourselves.

@Justin_Beaver564

Жыл бұрын

It's really unfortunate that a lot of ancient history has been lost this way. I still remember the 2000 year old Buddhist statue being destroyed by the Taliban in Afganistan.

@fredriksundberg4624

Жыл бұрын

​@@Justin_Beaver564 Yes. Back in 2001 just a few months before 911.

@wilsontexas

11 ай бұрын

Maybe people are the problem and not religion. They tend to destroy things and think they are right.

Incredible. Just amazing editing.

@jgmrichter

Жыл бұрын

Do you approve of the cringey clickbait title though?

@DigitalHammurabi

Жыл бұрын

@@jgmrichterUnfortunately, to get this type of information out to a wide audience on these platforms, using exciting and tantalizing titles is part of the process.

The Serpent said "Ye shall not surely die." which I've always taken to mean that they would not die instantly but rather that they would then be subject to death - on the day of eating of the tree they would then be mortal, and thus they knew their vulnerability - their nakedness - and had the knowledge of good and evil - evil being death. Disclaimer: I am not for a moment supposing any of this is factual truth but mythologically it is self-consistent.

@germanboy14

Жыл бұрын

So they were created immortal? No where it says this

@frankweiss335

Жыл бұрын

An still Adam lived over 900 years....what did we wrong to live 70 to 80 years😂

@wilsontexas

11 ай бұрын

I take it to mean the serpent was calling God a liar.

@wilsontexas

11 ай бұрын

​@@germanboy14it says it in the bible. Sin and death came at the same time.

@TheUfucks

11 ай бұрын

First off you are right and please belive that till the last breath this is obviously a trick of satan a poor attempt to use fancy wording and book knowledge to explain the easy to understand inspired word of God where does it not say adam and eve were immortal where does it need to say death wont exsist in the last days or after if you allow a man to explain a way a God without explaining a single timing to a function like a heart beat why do they beat how do they know when who designed it how long will it last but my Creator knew all that at beat one can tell me how many times it has beaten so please dont let your lack of education be the devils wedge in your salvation the Gospel was written to confound the wise

For Christianity the Fall is essential and premeditated by God. Without the Fall there can be no Salvation. 🤔

You know, if I didn't know any better, I would think YHWH was the devil. Considering they call the devil, "the tempter".... He puts two people in an enclosure, with the two trees he didn't want them to eat. If someone tells you, "You can do anything, except for X." What is going to be the ONLY thing you want to do?

@jaslanr

4 ай бұрын

Yahweh is not the father of Jesus

@Meowwolfwarrior

3 ай бұрын

That's exactly who he is

@s0cializedpsych0path

3 ай бұрын

@jaslanr YES!!!! Few people seem to know this.... Immanuel is, in fact, the avatar of the TRUE God. God is not "jealous" as God is all. Why would the whole be jealous of the part.... especially when it IS the part, too! We are all God experiencing infinite instances of temporariness. We are sort of like larvae or zygotes... not individually, but collectively. When you die, the part that is you rejoins the whole. At "the end," a new "God" will be born as the old one dies. It happens every time cycle.... and the new "God" will have all of our experiences integrated. Mind you, this is merely the working theory I'm currently forming, based on my own NDE, the NDEs of others, my body of knowledge (I'm an autistic autodidact, so that body is vast and odd), and my studies of different faiths, since then. I'm always interested in exploring it with people who are open-minded and aren't just trying to use my experience to confirm their own preconceptions. The experiences don't fit into the box of ANY religion, and so religious people usually try to invalidate my experience. If you'd like to talk, you can search my name on X and find me there.

@jaslanr

3 ай бұрын

@@s0cializedpsych0path really appreciate you sharing this. I’ll look you up and we can discuss further

@beccasal5601

Ай бұрын

Yahweh is evil. His real name is Yaldabeoth. Read the apocrypha of John from the nag hamaddi library.

Reading the Old Testament for the first time, I was mystified. Books 1,2 and 3 are, well, I don’t know, but certainly unlike what I imagined. It lays a conundrum in my beliefs.

@john.premose

3 ай бұрын

They are mostly just boring. That's the worst part about them, or one of the worst parts.

Oh..I get it. “Rain Bowtie” great visual pun! Nailed it.

You guys need to see Paul Wallis. His new video today was entitled “Did Jesus worship YHWH?” Paul Wallis has a little bit different view of the Bible and the Sumerian stories. It might give you a new take on your studies. As always love your videos!

@Marsalis_Money

Жыл бұрын

Also consider "ANUNNA Files: Anunnaki Evolution" playlist by Archaix

@susangrande8142

Жыл бұрын

Yep. 👍 I’m a fan of Paul Wallis and his 5th Kind TV channel. I’ve read 2-3 of his books, too; his take on the creation of humans and the “Garden of Eden” and “eating the fruit” is pretty interesting. Plus his take on who Yahweh and the other Elohim were. To me they’re very plausible. I’m currently in a Scriptural Foundations class (grad school level class), and I’m doing an exegesis on the Exodus story of YHWH appearing at the top of Mt. Sinai (Chapter 19, verses 1-20). Sounds like landing in a space ship to me….😑

@TheSweetScience123

Жыл бұрын

"Did Jesus worship YHWH?" Answer: yes

@susangrande8142

Жыл бұрын

@@TheSweetScience123 I don’t think so. Jesus was way more enlightened than that. He was into love, not fear.

@TheSweetScience123

Жыл бұрын

@@susangrande8142 God is Love 1john 4:8 This is Jesus speaking John 17:3 Believe it or not it's still true... No fear just love, we worship Jehovah out of love not fear.

As a Christian, I didn't know biblical scholarship was a thing. As an ex Christian, I am very excited to see a video with 2 bible scholars in my top 5 favorite.

@mnomadvfx

Жыл бұрын

Plenty of biblical scholars ARE Christian, just as many are Jewish or Muslim. The problem is that people of faith tend to find it hard to separate it from their work and treat what they examine objectively.

@PutsOnSneakers

Жыл бұрын

@@mnomadvfx It's a strange combination.... almost contradictory like a person that is professionally a medical surgeon of science during the week and then a village witch magic healer during the weekends... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Oh wait... there are actual medical scientists that are Christians... Nevermind... contradictions do exist I guess it's "normal" with scholars too

@kronos01ful

Жыл бұрын

These people are demons deceivers

@TheSweetScience123

Жыл бұрын

The bible tares down every incorrect narrative these false scholars spew, and I prove it with just two comments. From the start.

@DeWin157

Жыл бұрын

​@@TheSweetScience123Prove it then

The tragedy of the gods is, that they don't die. They just leave empty graves and their torture continues. Humans however evolve, and for a time they find and see the eternally tortured, and then they go on and forget all about it.

Doctor Bowen, Doctor Davis, in conversation what a treat. Thank you.

One of the more delightful juxtapositions of men's fashion I have ever seen

@MythVisionPodcast

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the superthanks my friend.

@JimAParks

Жыл бұрын

I love how you donated a few bucks as a sort of apology for your irreverent and hilarious comment! 😅

Knowledge is power after all

I love this discussion , Derek! I’ve always loved comparisons of biblical material with the greater mythological environment!

@theanimationstation1574

11 ай бұрын

I do too we should all look in to things from all perspective and see what we got don't just take things as people give them

@hammerstone255

11 ай бұрын

So it will go you good if you read my comments 🙏

@scottduke

11 ай бұрын

@@hammerstone255 comments where? I looked but couldn’t see them. UPDATE: I found them finally. I don’t see anything edifying or constructive. They come off as spiteful. But thanks for commenting.

So if YHWH didn’t want Adam and Eve to have that knowledge of good and evil, why even put that tree there in the first place? If he wanted them to stay with their innocence, why put them in a scenario where it can be taken away? Did he need loyalty and their obedience to show off to the other gods that he could be obeyed? Also, as a former JW, I was made to believe that YWHW didn’t lie because they actually did die “in that very day”. At 2 Peter 3:8, i was told that a thousand years is one day to YHWH so since they didn’t live past a thousand years, they indeed died in “that day”. I was hanging onto every word in this video! This was so informative and interesting. Keep them coming!!

@SeekingTruth2023

Жыл бұрын

I studied a long time with the JWs, but never became a JW. I am so happy for you that you came out! ❤ I was a Christian for 35 years, 10 years being in another high control group very similar to the JWs, maybe even more extreme. I left 6 month ago. Isn't it interesting, how each of these groups have an internally consistent doctrine, which they indoctrinate you with? I never came across the explanation you mentioned. My "church" just said, they died "that day", but only spiritually! And evidence for that would be that, when they had to leave Eden, and Eve gave birth to her first son, she said, "I have gotten a man from the LORD." not realising that the LORD had already left them, and they were spiritually dead (not connected to God anymore, not connected to eternal life anymore) So they died spiritually and became physically old from that day on, the process of physically getting old and die. If there was a true tri-omni God, why would he allow so many different doctrines? (Not all can be true at the same time!) And then judge the people when they grew up, for being indoctrinated with a wrong doctrine? Even if God didn't lie in Genesis, isn't it deceiving humanity, when he allows false doctrines/religions to spread freely, and then judge human beings for that? I am so sad for everyone who seeks God with his whole heart, and is confused by the different doctrines, and is in constant fear of being wrong and going to "hell" for that. (Thank you for all the work, Derek, that you spread awareness of sooo many things! I do not agree to everything, (and I don't have to), but I am grateful for all your hard work.))

@germanboy14

Жыл бұрын

Adam was created on the 6th day. The seventh day God rested. So this means Adam would have been by this logic 1000 years old when the seventh day ended. But we know that Adam was only 900 years old when he died. And the Satan incident did happen after the 7th day. This makes no sense at all

Satan's lies... the father of all lies!

@justinb777

8 ай бұрын

Yup🙏🏽

Thank you guys for this wonderful discussion. What a refreshing and erudite conversation. And so needed! I would just question the point of comparison between the Eden narrative and the Gilgamesh narrative. I don't think it is accurate to say that the Sumerian literature is a movement to the city and the Biblical literature a movement away. Enkidu (the primitive man) in Gilgamesh is taken to the city as part of an upgrade package. He is introduced to sophisticated foods, alcohol, women and city living. He is being civilized. This resonant story echoes in Kipling's Mowgli story and Edgar Rice Burrough's Tarazan story. I would suggest that Eden is a developed environment and it is there that the primitive human (Adam) is adapted, introduced to the female of the species, new foods and medicines are hinted at, and an upgrade in the human's intelligence debated over and then actualised. So the movement to the city in Gilgamesh is an upgrade story. I would suggest that the upgrade in Genesis occurs in a city. The "Garden" of Eden implies an discrete walled area with a hard border protecting the enclosed zone from the wider environment. The humans are then exiled from the city, and this is seen as negative and frightening, notwithstanding that it was Yahewh's doing. Consequently their descendants build their own cities. So I don't agree that there is a movement away from the city in the Bible and towards it in Sumerian story. Abraham is rightly fearful of the cities not because there is a negative connotation around city-building but because he is a smaller social unit. As such his tribal culture is powerless in the face of city culture. The city defines the law, not the visiting nomad. However by the time we get to Joshua the Israelites are proud of the cities they inherit and develop. As to the "bombing" of Babel once we read the Bible's Babel narrative alongside that of the Sumerian Enuma Elish it is impossible to see that "bombing" as a divine action. The Garden of Eden story is not a polemic against the source narrative. It is not an inversion of the source narrative. It is a summary form of the Enlil / Enki narrative of Sumerian fame.

@mitchdowning8188

Жыл бұрын

You made a lot of good observations from the literature of those cultures and summed them up nicely! It may be that there are occasional resets of human occupation/civilization to remove old versions of mankind and reintroduce new hybrids. Like in the movie Logan's Run, lifespan seems to be a tool used to keep control. In the original Blade Runner movie, the replicants were given extraordinary strengths and abilities, but were limited to a four year lifespan. There is something in our psyche that recognizes the "spiritual" part of our existence and wants to expand it.

@BenSolomonIM

Жыл бұрын

Well said Paul. Love the work you do on your YT channels. 😊

@morbidclash

11 ай бұрын

I hope you ain't basing this info off the already false debunked Zach stitch translations...

@mikeschmidt4800

11 ай бұрын

​​@@morbidclashid you debunk them yourself or are you simply trusting the work of others? If so, why do you have faith in their work? By asking this, I am in no way defending the work of Sitchin nor defaming it. I am simply curious as to why you say what you say so definitively.

@mikeschmidt4800

11 ай бұрын

​@@mitchdowning8188if you're interested in resets of humanity have a read of The Navigator Who Crossed the Ice Wall.

A British scholar, Gordon J. Wenham, noted in his Word Biblical Commentary, of Genesis 1-15 (published in 1995) the polemic nature of the Garden of Eden account. His observation being, that Genesis 1-11 is in response to, and in refutation of, Mesopotamian creation of man myths. These refutations consist of a series of _inversions_ by Genesis' author, as regards the Mesopotamian creation of man myths. So, according to Wenham, to properly understand Genesis 1-15, one has to study the pre-biblical Mesopotamian creation of man myths, in order to know what it is that Genesis' author is refuting.

@DanzigDevilock

11 ай бұрын

Michael Heiser comes to mind, he interprets the scriptures in that bias….He is an expert in ancient languages

Thank you for releasing this discussion, keep up the good work

One thing I've wondered about that I don't think I've seen discussed is if Eve ate first and then offered the fruit to Adam, was her eyes fully opened when she offered it?

@christophercarter2720

11 ай бұрын

No there eyes wasn't open until Adam ate it cause God gave him the law not her

@ambrechristos8295

11 ай бұрын

good reflexion !

@veniqe

11 ай бұрын

​@@christophercarter2720😂

@mootal2812

6 ай бұрын

After eaing the fruit, Eve sensed that she screwed! up! So he offered to Adam to share the blame... As nothing was said about the fruit was tasty or any good...

Great interview and explanations. Loved seeing this.

Myth of Adapa is a must read! This was one of my favorite conversations on your channel, I am trying to make a giant database of ancient primary texts put in audio form with the translations in CC and comments, but because I like listening to these more than reading. But the Myth of Adapa was one of those that stops you and makes you go look it up to try and understand it better, really fascinating stuff. There are others like "Dialogue between a Man and his God" that are great too at seeing early things like the Book of Job, and "lord give us our daily bread" ideas. (from Old Babylonian period)

@malahkhesus482

Жыл бұрын

How would I get all these videos saved to an external drive to use offline in the event the internet goes down which will happen down the road very soon

@nostalgicbliss5547

Жыл бұрын

interesting

@deuceonethousand

11 ай бұрын

Good to see people looking into the origins of religions. Sumerian is tho oldest written history still known to mankind. After their city civilization complexes declined Akkadian then Babylonian civilizations grew. Centuries later some of the regional tribes became tribes of Judah. They didn't have an old testament. Their scholars spent their time in Babylonian libraries studying ancient texts and over the centuries changing the names of heroes and major characters to their own ethnic names. Religion was created by humans to control others and pretend God gives them authority. Gnosticism was knowledge from the same ancient libraries with the original stories and history of the world. In order for a new religion to be built in Rome of course those old libraries had to be destroyed. The largest was the burning of the library in Alexandria Egypt where the Gnostic and many other mystery schools spent time with the ancient texts. The history has been covered up but it is actually still there if you search diligently

@TimelessTexts

11 ай бұрын

@@malahkhesus482 yeah that was something I've been worried about too, I think both physical books, there are tons of companies that can do that cheaply now and in good quality, and/or a flash drive, faraday cage it just in case too. I don't admittedly feel like I am anywhere near the database to warrant that yet but working toward it every day.

@TimelessTexts

11 ай бұрын

@@deuceonethousand For sure and luckily, almost supernaturally, we get surviving texts that really show us what we need to understand how much of this was copied by earlier sources. Though to be fair, what do we call the aspect that these newer religions "copied" things but really they improved them and updated them for our day. We get critical that they fall short of our modern thinking, but they were on the cutting edge of progressive morality back then. For example, I am working on the Zoroastrian texts now like the Zend Avesta, and there is so much like forgiveness of all your sins once you join that we might put on Christianity, but also so much weird stuff that we have to say that there was a reason they gave up these faiths for the newer religions. That they were more relatively better, more logical, less stuck in weird ritual, and more applicable and universal that what came before them. I sometimes joke that someone like Moses or Jesus would be like "wait you still do what we said? you mean nothing changed in thousands of years? how have you not adapted the higher conscious and better understanding of reality into something newer?" Like Moses overcame the weirdness and evils of the institutionalized Egyptian religion to make something new, then Jesus did that with the Jewish tradition he experienced in his day. Idk if any of that makes sense, but I wonder if we take the orthodoxy or logic of it more serious that any of these figures even meant to

And for whatever reason views arent showing up on this video. Letting you guys know

How can any believer hear all of this and still argue for the existence of their god? Really? 😏

@joh1109

Жыл бұрын

"the existence of thier god "as in the gods of religion and mythology? I can definitely argue the existence of a god called the sun that definitely does give life and definitely can kill every living thing on earth if it decides to not shine it's light 💯

@elitedrumlessons6174

Жыл бұрын

There are other biblical scholars that have specialized, studied, and commented on all the stories that were discussed today but came out with a different take than these scholars and have remained steadfast believers. So before you continue in your arrogance, please realize this fact

Imagine if the experience on earth is a testing ground for the human apprentice.

@Animalis_Mundana

11 ай бұрын

We gotta choose, recognize here. If you choose the world and this "life" you choose evil, you reject good. We've fallen, below.

@kaycees1111

10 ай бұрын

I have thought of this exact thing many, many times. Who knows😮

A Jewish chat sight, I came across recently suggests that, the tree was a sacred ceder tree, and the fruit that grew from it, was a just grape vine, a grapevine has grown up and twisted around the ceder tree, and had grown grapes, and the ceder tree is very biblical stuff, like this tree is a scrid ceremony tree, so because this grapevine had touched the ceder tree, and gained some sort of interaction with the ceder tree, it has become not to be touched, it's actually the ceder tree that is not to be touched, so the grapevine had become, part of this too, complected because of the ceder tree, a natural grapevine had touched the ceder tree, so became untouchable obviously, so it was said you can't eat that grapes growing from there, you can't eat those grapes because of the ceder tree.

10:41 Genesis 11:4 , And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. The built the tower because of pride and fear, and so God punished their Pride, with the thing they feared.

@mootal2812

6 ай бұрын

Looking at today's sky scrappers...nothing seems too wrong about that...

It seems to me that Yahweh's greatest fear was that his homunculi now had the ability to judge him and his creation and we all know Yahweh doesn't seem to like to be judged or questioned, like any other narcissist. He then went on to make them and all their kin suffer forever for the slight of making the correct choice, like any other psychopath.

@udthetrader3956

10 ай бұрын

Every vilan was once an innocent mind, hence Yahweh being aggressive to other gods was due to the betrayal from his own people hence claiming his inheritance by force which is the Earth

@Thor-Orion

7 ай бұрын

I always said if a humanoid sky daddy was real (I want to be clear I believe in a higher power, just not a humanoid one) I wouldn’t be allowed in heaven because I would fist fight him for making pediatric cancer a thing. (Edit: before anyone asks, my higher power is what I call The Grand Architect, the easiest way for me to explain to people what it is in my estimation is the singularity immediately preceding the Big Bang when all the mass and energy currently comprising everything in the universe was compressed down into a tiny volume of space-time. The concept of the highest creator god resting after it finishes creating things actually makes a lot of sense but they don’t actually go far enough; because once the Big Bang happens the mass and energy is no longer unified then the grand architect stops existing as an omnipotent entity but it does continue to be omnipresent through everything that has ever existed since everything’s mass and energy was once part of that singularity)

@goeegoanna

7 ай бұрын

​@@udthetrader3956 If Yahweh is eternal and unchanging then it was never innocent. If Yahweh is a psychopath now, then it was always a psychopath, yes? Villain isn't the right word in this, I don't think, monstrous titan suits better. Were the people not Canaanites? They were El's people, he created them didn't he? Yahweh claimed them as his own, while blaming all them for his own failings. He got angry at other gods because his 'own' people betraying him? He murdered them all, who betrayed whom? This makes the other gods, the people and everything else scapegoats for his psychopathy, yes?

"God": 🔥Who told you that you were naked?! Adam: 😕 Why didn't _you_ tell us?! I don't see _you_ walking around in the buff!

The serpent is prometheus because he gave them the gift of knowledge. It's funny because how did the serpent lie.

I love this newer style of video! The content is great but the visuals and music help elevate the mood. Reminds me a lot of @GnosticInformant's great videos (which MythVision turned me on to!).

So what was the serpent's intention in upsetting Yahweh's intention of keeping the human specie innocent? Was he so misguidedly well-intentioned as Yahweh who wanted human specie innocent for whatever purpose? Why not a possibility Yahweh was well-intentioned but the serpent sabotaged his plan for whatever reason... meaning the human specie was but mere pawns in the whatever conflict between Yahweh and the serpent.

7:24 The best lies are made of the truth from a deceptive context. In Hollywood, the saying is, It's a great story - AND it has the "added advantage" of being true.

@SkyeSage17

11 ай бұрын

False prophet's profit on ignorance and distorted truth

Excellent! Well done! Thank you! ☀️

I am studying different Religions thank you very much, Blessed Be.

@mz.yumyum1461

11 ай бұрын

Since you're studying different religions what might be helpful to you is to see that people have been lied to for centuries at this point about Yahweh!!! Remember yahshua taught how to be a set apart one and follow the way, Christianity and Catholicism are just the hijacked teachings of yahshua!!! That is European made, that is not what it really was meant to be and most people don't even realize this because they are so instilled with the traditions that they have been taught throughout so many of their ancestors lifetimes!

Dr. Josh and Dr. Kill are always an instant click

Thanks guys. You have reaffirmed my belief in my Christian faith. Every point you make, it makes sense in my mind on how it fits in God’s design. It aluminates the fact that there are those that see with their eyes but can’t see.

@shayalynn

Ай бұрын

For real. They miss the point. That God made mankind in His image, after His likeness. That was their intended purpose, to reflect God’s nature and character (His moral integrity, love and goodness). The Hebrew words used for good and evil is tov and ra, which actually means (tov) functional aka something fulfilling its intended purpose versus (ra) dysfunction. Tempting and testing are two different things. Tempting always has that which is bad in mind, while testing can be used for an opportunity of doing good. God having foreknowledge of Adam and Eve’s choice does not make Him immoral or wrong. Especially since He had a plan for salvation and good to come out from it. He gave them an opportunity to choose to trust in Him and abide in His love or to choose another path. The only other path is death, but by allowing this to be a choice, He is permitting freewill, not robotlike humans who can’t love. Love must be a choice.. it cannot be demanded. It’s a two way street and its foundation is trust. The Greek word for trust is pistis, often translated as faith but trust is the best definition for it. The serpent didn’t force Adam and Eve to do anything because he couldn’t. All he was capable of doing was planting a seed into their minds to distrust God, which is the foundation of all disobedience. It was established as a firm rule that every tree would create produce according to its kind, and that its seed would be in it. A dysfunctional tree cannot produce functional fruit nor a functional tree produce dysfunctional fruit. The quality of the heart is often compared to as a seed being of one or the other type, which will eventually grow and bear fruit of its kind. It makes no sense for anything good to be expected to come out of the promises of the serpent. No special wisdom was given except a small truth, they would personally/intimately experience what function AND dysfunction was. They would come to understand personally what it was like to live AND to die. That’s because they became dysfunctional, which is why they hid themselves from God and felt ashamed. It was a portrayal of a guilty conscience which pushes US away from God, not the other way around necessarily. The Lord obviously knew where they were but said it for a reason, almost testing them to see if they would admit to what they done and be repentant. Instead, Eve blamed the serpent, Adam blamed Eve AND God “the woman which YOU gave me to be with has given me the fruit and I ate of it.” It didn’t benefit Adam or Eve one bit by blaming each other and even God. They both had to face the consequence, as well as the deceiver.

@stuartcox4907

Ай бұрын

@@shayalynn yes, and God has taken all excuses out of the way. Because the plan of the cross was before the foundation of the world according to scripture. Before Adam and Eve sinned, the plan of salvation through Christ’s cross was laid. First came the law to show how we are separated from a holy God, then came grace, free to all who believe.

@shayalynn

Ай бұрын

@@stuartcox4907 Exactly. People will still find ways to blame God though. I guess it’s the human nature inside of us but it’s still frustrating. Many don’t understand that God wants to help us. He has sent us a Helper, the Holy Spirit because it’s not good (tov) for man to be alone - without God.

@Mythvision Podcast. One question that comes up for me. In the story where the snake took the plant from Gilgamesh, does the snake 🐍 represent any mythological entity? There’s so much symbolism in these stories, it’s weird that the snake would be just a snake.

@kathy1154

Жыл бұрын

It's a reptilian/dragon, like all the "gods" and "angels" reptiles.

To all of the people that are healing their Religiously traumatized emotional minds, through all of these wonderful hard working Religious scholars, and social workers emotional support videos. Please remember to be as thoughtful, and non judgementally kind as you would love for people to be to you. As you are trying to share your new found freedom from the emotional traumas that your past addiction to being Religiously addicted had caused you to be. To be able to help the other people that are still Religiously addicted. Remember to be a non judgementally kind, caring, sharing, concerned emotional support person for them. Because EMOTIONALLY RELIGIOUS traumatizing THOUGHTS are very hard to work through. Even with the ability to get any types of professional help through any of the professionally trained therapists. Once we become Religiously emotionally self hypnotized. We're not able to see it. And the people that are healed from their Religious addiction is probably going to be the only truly caring person that the Religious addict will be able to reach out to. Explain the importance of the addict to at least try to change all of the people, places, and things that caused them to be in that Religiously addicted/Religiously hypnotized situation in the first place. We are the healers for the world that we're trying to build together for the future for our own babies. We must stay lazer focused on our missions for world wide healing. Because we're currently addicted to being addicted to creating far more advanced weapons systems of mass extermination. We have to at least finally try our very best to become a civilized species. One addict at a time. Addiction to war is the most important addiction to try to heal from.

Did Adam knew what it meant by the term die.

God literally repeats that the snake was right. Regarding "being lime god knowing..."

The snake and the goddess were consorts in antiquity snd the snake was the symbol for wisdom!

@lenniebarrere4586

Жыл бұрын

Eve may have known about the snake being the symbol for wisdom and she trusted what it said! I think she intuited knowledge would be helpful for humanity! She so looked at the fruit which looked ripe and ready to eat and she surmised it was good.

Josh and Kipp are among my very favorite scholars! Thanks for getting them on together! This was great.😃

I would like to see them address Anne Marie Kitz's essay "To Be or Not to Be, That Is the Question: Yhwh and Ea".

@ashurdraco1510

Жыл бұрын

Well actualy EA is the Satan there Enlil is the Elohim of bible, simply because Enki tought Adapa the secrets also of magic... it was beloved creation of Ea, next came Enlil the wrathful and destroyed it all proclaiming himself a god... a false god... Yehova of bible, Thunderer and Flooder...

@tangoray1095

Жыл бұрын

Ea ea ea… you faka!

Great discussion and looking for more...!

This new format is great. Keep up the good work.

You three rock. You educate me and make me better.

These stories reminds me of some thing a professor of mine said. He talked about when he called Mosaic theology, which had to do with Israel as a loose confederation of tribes wandering in the wilderness, and Davidic theology, which was focused on the king, the capital, city, and the temple. He said the first represented a more harmonious existence among humans, and between humans and God. There is no king, and God’s presence is represented by the tabernacle, a portable building that moves from place to place with the people. However, the people want a king so they can be like the other nations (i.e., the nations that take their queue from the Gilgamesh epic. Died grudgingly gives them a king and their second king. David decides he wants a capital city and a palace, because that's what the other nations have. David wants God to have a big temple/Palace too, but God refuses. However, David’s son Solomon builds the temple. Now, God is associated with the monarchy, and to access God, the ordinary people have to come into the city where the elites live. I'd be curious what your guests would say about whether what I'm talking about is a part of the same movement as what they're talking about in Genesis.

In that day you will go from an immortal to a mortal being. If someone wants to interpret that to mean something different to a transformation of status, then they are the ones lying.

One thing I found is the hebrew for naked and hebrew for cunning are the same if not very similar. "They were both naked and had no shame" statement is the end of that chapter and then the next chapter starts "The serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field". Sounds like a lot of lies going on in the garden when I think bout the situation 😅

The way I read the story of the "fall" is that Yahweh did want them to eat the fruit. He told them not to in order to entice them like Tom Sawyer, saying he wanted to paint the fence himself to entice the other kids to do it for him

@kathy1154

Жыл бұрын

YHWH wasn't even around during the garden of Eden. He doesn't show up until his encounter with Abraham.

@DrKippDavis

Жыл бұрын

Depicting this story as "The Fall" is a totally Christianised idea that is absent from the original text.

@2FollowHim777

Жыл бұрын

No, just truth was said. No 'in order to'. Just facts, like Trump.

@Erimgard13

Жыл бұрын

@@kathy1154 That's not true. Genesis chapters 2-4 use the divine name YHWH repeatedly. Every place you see "LORD" in all caps in those chapters is YHWH in the Hebrew

@germanboy14

Жыл бұрын

​​​​@@Erimgard13 the names were added by multiple authors. Abraham didn't know the name according to Ex 6,3. So God introduced the name first to Moses

In genesis a major theme is that God was pretty much scared to death that humans would achieve the same intelligence and immortality like him. Even in the new testament Jesus is always telling them that they can be just like god. I used to be confused by that. How can mortal humans be like a spiritual god? It doesn't compute if you look at it through a supernatural lense like that. But if you look at it from a technological lense. Then it makes sense. Of the ones calling themselves gods only have that power because of superior technology. Then that is achievable. All mortal humans would need to be gods themselves is the access and understanding of the same technomancy that the gods are using. A true universally supreme supernatural being would have no fear of being dethrowned. Its power doesn't come from technology that mortal beings have access to. But if gods power wasnt as supernatural as we are lead to believe. That opens the possibility for us to figure out how god is doing all this stuff and start doing it ourselves and become our own gods. For god to even fear that we will become just like him, hints at the reality that gods power isnt magic. Its not something only god can do because hes god. Otherwise god wouldn't worry about humans becoming too powerful. The source of gods power must be something tangable that we can learn to do for god to even have a reason to worry. People say that you can't just become a god. But apparently you can because it is directly stated in genesis. Humans gained the knowledge and the gods got scared that if we get the immortality too then we would be our own gods. So god like power must be achievable and it must come from technology rather than inate spiritual ability. If it were that then we would only have the spiritual abilities we were given and not be able to achieve more. So i dont think they were talking about spirits when they described gods. The fears and decisions god makes dont seem to come from a position of someone who knows all things and can do all things. What it seems to describe to me are beings who's ability seems to come from the technical know how they have, and they are worried that if humans had longer lives, eventually they would figure out the same things they know how to do. Look at how much people like Einstein and Tesla accomplished in one human lifetime. Now imagine if they had a 5000 year lifespan to continue improving and building on their work. Yeah we would have god tech by now. Just look at what humans can do now compaired to the bronze age. The things we can do now would have been attributed to the same things gods do back in the bronze age. Now let's ask how we achieved all these things. Was it through spiritual means like prayer and meditation? No. People have been doing that for thousands of years and never got an inch closer to god's powers. But just in the past 200 years, when we began taking a technological approach. Well that moved us much closer to god's abilities and the effect is snowballing. Through technology we have already achieved many of the things that in ancient times were exclusive to the gods. The spiritual approach only kept us in the same spot. But the technology approach has pushed our ability closer to god's. Therefore god is not supernatural, god is technological. The evidence is overwhelming. God directly stated that we can become like him. Spiritual things never got us closer to that ability but technology has. So god must be using an advanced technology that we too can eventually develop and also use. Even if you do take the spiritual approach, it still himts that we also have the same ability, but can't develop it because we don't live long enough. But even then you cant rule out the possibility that god is using some sort of technology to enhance natural ability. May be god has an x-com psi-amp. We don't know.

@wilsontexas

11 ай бұрын

You have a hypothesis but I dont agree with your assumptions or conclusions.

I've never understood the threat of death. If nothing dies in the garden of eden, how could Adam and Eve comprehend the threat of dying for eating the fruit. How can someone who doesn't even know they are naked understand what death is?

@mrfabulous4640

Жыл бұрын

It seems me the opposite actually. Death can easily be understood as ceasing to exist (they know they exist). But why would they have any concept of clothes to cover one’s body, when everything is that way and nothing wears clothes?

@DrKippDavis

Жыл бұрын

Why do you think that nothing dies in the Garden? Where did you get that idea?

Something that just occurred to me, but I’m sure there’s a whole body of literature I’m unaware of. Might the garden of Eden story about eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil be about trying to explain human consciousness. So people understand we are animals but somehow different than the other. We have some sort of social/moral codes that other animals don’t seem to.

@ImmortalSociopath

11 ай бұрын

To add to that, could it possibly refer to naturally occurring plant psychedelics having a role in creating human consciousness? #burningbushwasdmt

@angelbaaldepeor3688

11 ай бұрын

Yes like hoarding other animals in big warehouse's in order to kill them an eat their death flesh truly amazing. Cheerios.

@leelukatelanddigital

11 ай бұрын

Yes! I’ve def listen to documentaries and discussions on this. It was the best way they could explain our animalistic natures / emotions. Remember these people were making sense of knowing the self. Doelow the pilot man always says the Bible is a book of behavioral science.

@adrianaslund8605

11 ай бұрын

I think Jordan Peterson had that exact idea. Make of that what you will.

@rationalpear1816

11 ай бұрын

@@adrianaslund8605 no one knows what JP thinks about the Bible, not even JP himself.

God never lies

I never thought of this, but if there was a worry that we would live forever, if we ate from the tree of life, why stop us from eating from a tree that would make us surely die? That almost seems like we were immortal before eating from the tree of knowledge, and God wanted to keep it that way until after eating from the tree of knowledge and then he was worried we would become immortal?

One could even say the serpent freed humanity from a life of ignorance and tyranny.

@paulavery5889

11 ай бұрын

No he didn't. It's a bullshit story but I think the real point is that our intelligence although advanced is limited so that's what makes us vicious. So that's true. But the stories are fiction.

@michaelgomez6624

11 ай бұрын

😂 😂

@uns70ppabl35

10 ай бұрын

Yes. We can see serpent as an image of death which freed us from this false world and opened our eyes for the other worlds.

@niamushi2033

10 ай бұрын

The Serpent is a trickster, what did he take away from humanity? He was a liar from the very begining!

@uns70ppabl35

10 ай бұрын

This is what Yahweh wants you to believe.

Josh and Kipp have CORRECTLY noted Genesis' Adam and Eve in a location called Eden, are probably recasts of En-Ki-Du and Shamhat in the Epic of Gilgamesh, in this video. _What is not so well known_ by many, is that En-Ki-Du and Shamhat encounter each other at a watering hole in a location called the EDIN (or EDINU). I quite accidentally stumbled across this revelation while perusing the internet back in 2003. I had read several different editions of the Epic of Gilgamesh by different authors, and was astounded to discover an edition mentioning EDIN/EDINU as where En-Ki-Du and Shamhat met each other. I had never encountered a Gilgamesh edition before, having this word. The edition? Professor Andrew George. 2003. _The Babylonian Gilgamesh Epic. Introduction, Critical Edition and Cuneiform texts._ 2 Volumes. Oxford University Press. London. (The Two volumes are available for $565.00 at Oxford Publishers) If others are aware of another, earlier edition, having the word EDIN/EDINU, I would like to know of such, with thanks for sharing. Apparently Genesis' author, via _assonance_ (words that are similar in sound but having different meanings in differing languages), heard EDIN, meaning "wilderness" in Sumerian, and most probably, via _assonance,_ equated it with Hebrew `EDEN, meaning "DELIGHT." I have Professor George's abridged paperback copy and nowhere does one find the word EDIN/EDINU in it (cf. Andrew George. _Epic of Gilgamesh._ Penguin Classics. 2000. Paperback edition). I e-mailed Professor George about this anomaly, and he graciously e-mailed me back, saying he had substituted the Sumerian word EDIN/EDINU with the word WILDERNESS in his paperback edition.

@MH3GL

Жыл бұрын

Interesting find... 🤔 Thanks for sharing.

@questor5189

11 ай бұрын

Very good research, considering that Hebrew and Akkadian have proto-semitic roots, but Sumerian does not. Nevertheless, parallels remain, and Abram was originally from that region. Thank you so much for this information.

@angelbaaldepeor3688

11 ай бұрын

God bless his soul.

@mikeschmidt4800

11 ай бұрын

I do wish that someone more talented than myself would weave these ancient texts of the world together in hopes of finding a great mosaic of sorts. I have a hunch that these tales are of the same story with varying perspectives and intermingling with various entities or gods. Would they all be the same God? Could Shiva and her ilk be the so called fallen? Why would Samyazel and the rest of the third of angels betray their God and think they could defeat him? So many questions and at the core of them is the true nature of God or the supreme ruler of the angels. What is he exactly? Living or ethereal? Is he capable of losing such a battle? Are the fallen pure evil or liberators of mankind?

@questor5189

11 ай бұрын

@@mikeschmidt4800 All valid questions. I wonder many of the same myself. For decades I believed YHWH to be the one true Living God and viewed all others as counterfeits. Like you, my ongoing research indicates a common thread within every ancient culture or religion. Strikingly, the ones that share similar moral teachings and virtues could quite possibly be serving one and the same god or goddess, albeit under different names. Another thing that I have noticed is that, while revelation is progressive, each of the world's major religions was at it's purest at it's inception. Concerning the character of the God of Abraham, one must not overlook the character of a hard-hearted people desperately seeking a tribal god they can call all their own. Preconceived notions can interfere with accurate perceptions of the Divine.

I just started watching. Just a thought: so when Adam was given the breath he "became" a living soul. So when this breath is taken away, and he is mere flesh, wouldnt his soul die and he is spiritually dead, no? This was, what I learned in the 35 years being a Christian.....

@youngknowledgeseeker

Жыл бұрын

In my opinion, and I could be wrong, the difference between a living soul and a dead one, per scripture, is consciousness. We were dirt/dust, dirt and dust don't think or feel, with God it is possible, however if we lose that animating energizing "breathe" of God, we are just dirt/dust again. The countless years that passed before you were born and you "remember" nothing of it. I think we return to that nothingness in death...and I think the Bible as a whole suggests this. Jesus said of the dead he would encounter, "they are sleeping". PS - In fact, in the Bible, both humans and animals are referred to *as* souls as opposed to *having* souls. (Over the course of time you can see the word "nephesh" aka soul, eventually develop multiple meanings as you read further along the Bible, but originally and most anciently you *were* a soul not *having* a soul). When men and animals were dead they were dead souls, when alive they were "alive" or "living" souls.

@kos-mos1127

Жыл бұрын

Adam and Eve are legendary figures rather then historical people. Looking at what their names mean will inform one of that. Adam’s name translates to red earth Eve’s name translates to be. Adam is a personification of the Earth or Ground while Eve personifies the force of existence.

@SeekingTruth2023

Жыл бұрын

@kos-mos1127 Yes, I agree with you on this. I am atheist now, but still fascinated by the bible. Actually, if they were not the first physical human beings (connected to God), there is also the problem, that Adam could not have committed the first (oringinal) sin, due to which we all are said to be sinful, deserve death and and die. So the while concept of that would fall to pieces. So all the sacrifices, including even a human sacrifice (Jesus) would have been unnecessary. This is a whole other topic though.

@SeekingTruth2023

Жыл бұрын

@youngknowledgeseeker thank you for your reply. Yes, this is practically what I had learned all these years. Though, as a Christian, I didn't hear about the soul existing before the body exists. What is the soul anyway? As far as my knowledge of the brain is, consciousness requires a physical brain. And if you mean, this consciousness might be the soul, I tend to agree. On the other hand, when the physical brain stops, the consciousness stops. So I am not sure about the soul before or after physical existence. But this is a complicated topic. When you write, we might return to nothingness, I think this is what I think as well.

@SeekingTruth2023

Жыл бұрын

@boriscuduco I see your point. But Genesis 2,7 speaks of the breath of life, blown into his nostrils of Adam and he became a living soul. So this seems "spiritual" in a way.... I don't think Adam was a historical figure, so the interpretation would be difficult anyway.

Alright! Two of my favorite Bible scholars.

21:56 When a father knows their child did something wrong, a good father gives the child time to confess. A bad father reprimands them immediately. God knew what they did, and instead of saying, I TOLD YOU NOT TO DO THAT! instead, with love, He acts as if He doesn't already know, and askes questions, that will motivate them to stop hiding, and confess what they did, and they did stop hiding, and they did confess.

The mythology is interesting in its own right, but I find myself keeping one eye open for the psychological pay-offs if you will, in the emerging myths and the evolutionary adaptation of one myth from others to become more pervasive and persuasive. What I took from this wonderful discussion was an interesting speculation about the motives of the biblical authors, for doing an about face on knowledge as a bad thing and tying ideas beliefs to morality vis the imperatives. Obedience to god (or those who profess to speak on his behalf) becomes a moral imperative vested by the fruit in knowledge, but that knowledge is specifically, of good and evil. Putting aside the problem of obedience being demanded and disobedience predicated as bad/evil before they could comprehend why they must obay... (ignorance was never an excuse). I'm rather perplexed at the aetiological outcome of nakedness as the artefact of the knowledge of good and bad. They knew they were naked? Srsly? Didn't they already know that? I mean, its about as much a revelation as realising you have 10 fingers. So what? What the author is implying is more to the point that they relized it was BAD/WRONG to be naked. This is where the psychology and motive aspect comes in to my hypothesis. Since we are social creatures concerned with gaining each others acceptance, we have a strong emotional investment of approval. How we dress factors into this, but never so much as how when and why we undress. The social mores around this are strongly linked with sex and vulnerability. Getting naked often evokes a sense of anticipation and vulnerability for approval or rejection. I think knowledge of nakedness in the garden is associated with good and evil as a trope that borows from our existing anxiety about or attractiveness or aproval for showing our bodies, and using that as a psychological trigger for good/bad or right/wrong. The evolution of mythology as more pervasive religion favors the aetiological narrative that uses our psychological predilections against us and makes us beholden to a moral imperative. Don't be naughty, don't be disobedient and don't eat that fruit, or you'll become self concious about showing your body. We were already self conscious about nakedness for natural psychological and sociological reasons, so atribuing knowledge of nakedness to knowledge of good and bad, was a very effective move for the evolution of a more pernicious religion. Just my speculation though. Any thoughts?

@ThA_-DevineSunchild

Жыл бұрын

Bro that was extremely incredible...that's my thought incredible immensely

@skepticusmaximus184

Жыл бұрын

@@ThA_-DevineSunchild Thank you very much.

I have noticed a number of comments in this video about Eden's Serpent. The Eden account explains WHY mankind does NOT possess immortality. The Mesopotamians also sought an answer as to why mankind does not possess immortality. The Mesopotamian account is called Adapa and the Southwind (as correctly noted in this video by Josh and Kipp). Is there a Serpent in the Adapa account? Yes! This serpent-god is called in the Sumerian version Nin-Gish-Zida, in the Akkadian version Gish-Zida. In Sumerian legends Nin-Gish-Zida is god who can take on different forms, as a human being with two human legs and feet, with a beard, with two dragon heads erupting from his two shoulders, and also as a four-legged dragon with two horns, two wings, four feet, and serpentine tail, with a scaley body. He is considered to be a vegetation diety, he at times dwells in the underworld and at other times in heaven as a gate guard to Anu's heavenly abode. Nin-Gish-Zida, on behalf of Anu, offers Adapa bread of life, conferring immortality, which Adapa refuses to consume, for his god, E-A of Eridu said don't eat the bread of death you will surely die! So, by obeying his god's warning, Adapa refuses to consume the Bread conferring immortality and loses out on a chance to obtain immortality for himself and for mankind. Adapa did not realize E-A had LIED to him, not wanting mankind to be immortal. Why the lie by E-A? Man had been created to provide daily food in temples in the form of produce from the god's city-gardens in the Edin, so that the gods would not starve to death. If man became a god (an immortal) who would then care for the gods' gardens in the Edin? The gods would have to return to the earth to bear back-breaking toil in making and clearing irrigation ditches to water the gardens of Edin, A task the gods abhorred, hence why they had created man to do the dirty work, and relieve the gods of physical toil for their daily food. So, Mesopotamian myths have a serpent deity, able to take on a human form, being able to talk to man (Adapa), a serpent-deity, who, on occasion, looses his human legs, and takes on instead, four dragon's feet (A two-legged Satan in the book of Revelation is called that old serpent in Eden) and Satan can also assume human form like Nin-Gish-Zida. Eridu's serpent, Nin-Gish-Zida, contra E-A's warning to Adapa at Eridu, "not to eat or you will die," mirrors God's warning to Adam, "don't eat, the bread of death, you will die" is denied by Eden's Serpent, "You will not die."

@mrfabulous4640

Жыл бұрын

What is the source for all that you claimed?

@WalterRMattfeld

Жыл бұрын

@@mrfabulous4640 Eden's Serpent, Its Mesopotamian Origins (2010)

@karlmarcs31

7 ай бұрын

You're making a big mistake to attribute the snake to Ningishzidda. ALL THE GODS ARE SERPENTS. YAHWEH is depicted as a coiled serpent. I know you're trying to draw a parallel to Satan, but "That ancient old serpent" doesn't say their is only one serpent. It's pointing out a SPECIFIC ONE that is ancient. It's intentionally vague. The word for arch angel, Seraphim means "FIERY FLYING SERPENT". THEY ARE ALL SERPENTS!

I was always taught that Adam did die in the day he ate of the tree. To god his day is 1000 of our years and Adam died before he was 1000 of our years or before one day of the gods was ended. I always had a hard time reconciling that, but then as you get older you find out that a dog's years is different than ours and we live longer than them. This is similar to the gods day being so much longer than ours and was probably why humans thought these people were gods and worshipped them.

@mrfabulous4640

Жыл бұрын

Tag.

@germanboy14

Жыл бұрын

Adam was created on the 6th day. The seventh day God rested. So this means Adam would have been by this logic 1000 years old when the seventh day ended. But we know that Adam was only 900 years old when he died. And the Satan incident did happen after the 7th day.

Derek your videos are top notch❤

This is absolutely fenominal. Thank you all. We desperately need ancient studies to understand this.

@nocturnaljoe9543

Жыл бұрын

@nelg3334 You never heard of fenominal? Pfff!

@nocturnaljoe9543

Жыл бұрын

@nelg3334 How dare you insist, that this made up word exists? I cannot believe it!

@ThA_-DevineSunchild

Жыл бұрын

​@nelg3334 the valedictorian of his class over here🥱

@ThA_-DevineSunchild

Жыл бұрын

​​@nelg3334odern day whiz kid ..ohh I'm very sorry I meant jizz kid

@ThA_-DevineSunchild

Жыл бұрын

And I believe that word does exist someone help me out

A garden is a cage. Like a cage with a lock and key. Go to the origin of the word garden and it will tell you so. The garden of Eden seemed more like a genetic experimentation lab to me than a city. What are your thoughts?❤

@tusaniabigby9715

11 ай бұрын

Are you ok ?

@lm-wo6vx

11 ай бұрын

Are YOU okay? This commenter made an observation and invited feedback, but you proffered a quippy insult. Offering a well-reasoned response would have been appropriate in a comment section. Childish playground putdowns quelch inquiry and hinder dialogue.

@ajadamsv9208

11 ай бұрын

Please expand your thoughts behind your hypothesis. I’m unsure where you are going with it.

@palehorse24681

11 ай бұрын

​@@ajadamsv9208expand what? They made an observation and explained the reasoning. What do mean?

@ajadamsv9208

11 ай бұрын

@@palehorse24681 I’d enjoy more understanding of the observation of the genetics lab in their opinion. The conversation was started I was curious about the supporting evidence

When my daughter was little and wouldn't stay in bed I lied and told her that spiders come out of my orchids after 9 pm to hunt. She stayed in bed after that, and it was a very necessary lie for her sake and mine, she's 13 now and no longer believes in orchid spider time. Do you know the age and context of this fruit lie? Not that I'm trying to protect yah way, but what if they were kids and the fruits were glass ornaments on the tree, or liquor filled, or auawasca or something. I told my stepdaughter that blackbears will likely eat her after dark in new jersey, because I didn't want to risk her sneaking to the magical creek and finding the highway. Adults for control and compliance to remain less than in a hierarchy, then that lie is BS

You know what’s so great about this is that people in the ancient world are able to live with the idea that their god might not be morally perfect or the only one in existence and were able still to maintain a bilateral sense of faith in such a god. And yet today there are people who get uppity the moment someone calls those ideas into question as though their faith were so ephemeral or fragile they couldn’t believe if not everything is perfect according to their opinions. It’s one of the rare things I genuinely think the humankind has devolved in.

He's not a bad god, he's just written that way.

We are still dump, when we change in an other dimenshon of live then we will start being the real person God want us to realise who we really are """" Dying is just wake up """ ❤ 🎉 😊

So if Adam and Eve did eat from the tree of life, could have God simply reverse the effects? Why was it so important to remove them from it, could he also simply remove the tree from the garden? So many plot holes!

@samreh6156

Жыл бұрын

That's not how people thought when these stories were created.

The Bible Project has an interesting interpretation and themeing out of understanding. I wonder if these guys are familiar, would be interesting to have them interact

I wonder if this "leave urban life" has anything to do with the Exile ending and returning to Judah. The returning exiles saw urban life in Babylon as evil (not to mention Greek metropolitan life in Judah and Israel) and molded the mythology to reflect that. Judahites were the more pastural of the two kingdoms, and they held the lion's share of the edits and modifications for the Pentateuch.

I enjoy this channel because i get to hear from a few of the people I read. I'm getting more and more frustrated at the hypocrisy going on the past couple of years. Please, set a standard. I'd love to be confident and donate!

@Erimgard13

Жыл бұрын

you uhhhh wanna get more specific than that lol

@DanzigDevilock

11 ай бұрын

I agree other channels like Inspiring philosophy, their videos kinda prop up each other…..this channel is different in a bad way….idk maybe it is me and I dont get it

#1

Perhaps what we would classify as Aethereal entities would be more akin to the Sphinx. Favoring tests and trials, there is after all a missed parallel of the Garden and the Gardener, well semi missed. Could make that comparison to Destiny's in game mythos which is probably intentional. The guy who wrote that did write the foundations of the Halo series which is awash in biblical iconography.

Love your work. Never stop

Wow... the dynamic trio.... 🫶🫶🫶🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏👏👏👏👏👏👌👌👌👌👌👍👍👍👍🌹🌹🌹🖖🖖🖖🖖🖖🖖🖖🖖🖖🖖

I’m slaving in my garden, just like a post-fall Adam. This discussion made time fly. Always grateful for extra-biblical interpretation. Never disappointed by Drs Josh & Kipp 🙌🏻

@DrKippDavis

Жыл бұрын

The pre-Fall Adam was the actual slave to the Garden. The post-fall Adam became a slave to the uncultivated earth.

@rhecb

Жыл бұрын

@@DrKippDavis Jeg er neppe uenig med deg Professor

@DrKippDavis

Жыл бұрын

@@rhecb Du er smart.

This is one of the best discussions on this channel... and I've watched most of them. Thanks!

Also, the way started sounds like he’s speaking more of a trickster god and then a creator God

Wow, I enjoyed this, thank you!

Loved this. Great seeing two of my favorite scholars in this discussion.

The Serpent is Ea. In the Sumerian version of the Garden, Ea has crafted the male and female human as servants for his brother Enlil. But Ea plays a trick on Enlil. He has made the pair fertile and Enlil didn't want them self replicating. He was very annoyed when he found out. In fact the noise the humans where making during copulation is why he wanted to drown everyone. Apparently these first humans were screamers. I don't think Ea lied to Adapa. I think he thought that his half brother, Enlil, would poison his favorite human in retaliation for the trick he played on his brother in the Garden.

@cyberscapes

11 ай бұрын

If the knowledge of good and evil is one of the things that separates the gods from the animals, then the serpent seems to be more than an animal. It doesn't seem impossible that the serpent could be the Jewish Satan (not to be confused with the Christian Satan!). As a heavenly servent of Yahweh, Satan knows good and evil, and Jahweh did assign Satan the specific task of testing humans' characters. As for the serpent's pre-Hebrew origins, on the other hand, it would make sense for the serpent to be Ea.

@ImmortalSociopath

11 ай бұрын

​@@cyberscapesI always wondered about that, because in Job, it never says Satan is evil or the enemy of God. Just that he's tasked with testing Job. Honestly their banter makes it seem like they're friends.

@lll2057lll

11 ай бұрын

​@@ImmortalSociopathsatan is the one who opposes God, the book of job is a trial in front of the angels. satan who accuses job of obeying God but not in vain, but because of everything that God has given him. Pointing or "acusating" Job of that, satan tells God to take everything away from him and so he does. the book culminates that satan who opposes God, loses his opposition to God in front of a human who is less than the angels who were the main witnesses of the event. The story Is a panoramic View of Jesús Christ.

Write your own book and story. Your creation your rule.

After they ate they became a threat because they had the knowledge so to also become immortal they would start to think for themselves & teach others. It seems in this narrative that's why they got kicked out👍

I absolutely love your videos man, great job for real those two are very knowledgeable. 😂 I was raised in a southern Baptist community where my mother crammed the bible into every circumstance possible as reason for the existence of God. It took me dying twice to learn the truth of Yehovaeh as I've come to know him. He came to me first as Sutekh, then As Haru-er, finally as himself. He is Seth the last human to bear YHWH's reflection. As Adam was created in his own image Soo too was Seth. Both Satan and Christ dwell solely in our reflection, two opposing sides of the same coin. Two paths yet none should be chosen. It is only by being that one can truly live. Perhaps I am different, though I do know there is a most high, in the same way I know that the earth is what birthed us. There is no room for error when faith is replaced by knowing. The most high is not One God above all or in sole existence. The most high is found in not one, yet all religions. It is fragmented into many pieces as humanity has attempted for thousands of years to explain the unexplainable, as each individual experienced the divine they attempted to encapsulate it and describe it in human context. Yet as humans differ, cultures and times differ as well. Each one is told to live in a certain fashion by the most high, for reasons that apply specifically to that individuals life and place in the world and they take that knowledge, which was meant solely for self application and growth and try to apply it to others. It becomes commercialized and monetized at which point the truth is lost to them and they continually spin in circles of insanity all they're own. Religion in my experience is beating that same dead horse doing the same thing, saying the same thing over and over expecting it to have some profound affect with each retelling. In truth these individuals have lost the path and are basically performing rituals the same way over and over expecting different results. Definition of insanity. All religion does is attempt to control mankind with a moral compass that is dictated by politicians and so called religious leaders. We are Divine by birth right. We do not need any to intercede for us or reach the gods for us. As it was written "God is I AM". A truth quite plainly hidden behind mythos and poetic prose of the erra in which it was written. It is Art that can only be understood by those that have they're eyes opened by experience, sometimes if the near death sort. Be blessed brother and keep it up. Mad love man 😅 sorry for the story though perhaps it needed to be said for others.

@susanmullins7713

6 ай бұрын

Well maybe or more confused😳

Bottom line: biblical stories are so much more interesting as literature than as theology.

There seems to be a movement happening about people who do not want Yahweh to be God and that is because they don’t want to be judged as a sinner