As Charles Spurgeon said “ Discernment is not discerning what is right and wrong it’s discerning what is right and almost right”

@amydamrau7122

Жыл бұрын

Yes! I have copies of this quote on post-it notes in my Bible. I have been handing them out.

@karenwerner6560

Жыл бұрын

And that’s how the deception happens. It’s almost like the authentic.

@Ann-ig1ss

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this. Very useful!!

@growtocycle6992

Жыл бұрын

There is no one on on earth who has perfect understanding of the word. None of the denominations is perfect. We must be mindful to Jesus's instruction to not disregard the followers casting out demons in his name: a house divided against itself cannot stand. I am not a member of bethel and never even attended there. I disagree with a lot of their choices, but believe they love Christ and have good intentions

@chrisburton8079

Жыл бұрын

@@growtocycle6992 That might be so my friend, but good intentions equals good works and works based theology Is in conflict with being saved by grace through faith in Christ alone

As as a former NAR worship leader, this is the best and most thorough I've heard. I believe this should go to every church in America. Thank you for mentioning the 'burnout' factor and fallout that happens when it becomes unsustainable. Also, exposing the 'prayer-less-ness' in all this circus,(by continuous declarations) is so necessary.

@elishamiyahira4301

Ай бұрын

Hope you are recovering through your deconstruction. Really difficult for me but wel get through

Sovereign Grace, Norton Hall Band, The Gettys, Matt Papa & Matt Boswell, Emu Music, City Alight, Sounds Like Reign, The Corner Room, and so many other wonderful, theologically rich and biblically sound worship artists are out there. We don’t need to continue supporting mega-worship collectives with their questionable theology, me-centered lyrics, and seeker-driven churches leading people to a false gospel. We need more discernment in this area and it needs to start with pastors and worship leaders waking up and realizing what these churches really believe and promote. When we play their music in our otherwise doctrinally solid churches on Sunday, we endorse the source, support them financially through CCLI fees, and let them in like a Trojan horse. Music teaches theology too. There are too many other wonderful options out there to continue justifying this.

@elliesambrook5929

Жыл бұрын

TRUTH BOMB

@ab-gail

Жыл бұрын

Sounds Like Reign. I see what they did there 😏

@lookup7055

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this list.

@MotherRabbitsKitchen

Жыл бұрын

CityAlight is my favorite!!! ❤❤❤

@stevenkuiper3347

Жыл бұрын

Amen!

Music is a portable theology that takes root in our minds. This can be a wonderful tool of the Holy Spirit, or an insidious weapon of the enemy.

@ChanNel-lv6we

Жыл бұрын

Well said

@normgardner4560

Жыл бұрын

And we need to need to be able to tell the difference!

@garypadgett7168

Жыл бұрын

@@ChanNel-lv6we a

@annbrucepineda8093

Жыл бұрын

Someone in our church from Australia pointed to the song, "Above All". I loved so many of the lines but had felt that the last line, "And thought of me, above all." was not sound doctrine. Would that be an example of NAR influence?

@junecleaver493

Жыл бұрын

Go back to the 50s, 60s, 70s. Music dominated the culture. It was great. It was cool, I loved the beat/music. The words totally changed the way we viewed the world.

This is really good content and is so on point with what I struggled to define during the last couple of years until just recently. My wife, kids and myself were in a "non-denominational" church for many years. We all got saved through this church and grew up spiritually in it. This church was launched early on from Baptist roots. Over the years, it progressed from those roots into Pentecostal and then, within the last few years started leaning heavily into these "NAR" sort of teachings. Meanwhile, I was deep into serving along with my wife, even as an elder the last couple of years. A little over two years ago, alarm bells started going off in my spirit. I searched the scriptures deeply and found that a lot of the things I was hearing from the pulpit were inconsistent with the Bible. I didn't know how to deal with this for the longest time. When I finally got the courage to try to talk to our Pastor, my concerns were essentially dismissed and there was no real opportunity for dialogue. I felt like the only way was to either align with their thinking or leave. There was no path for open discussion. After deciding that it was best we leave that church, we were prevented from even attending the home group that we were so deeply a part of. This whole movement and theology sickens me. It is, as you say, heavy handed and abusive. As hard as it may seem, if you are in a church like this you should get away. If you are in confusion, you will be shocked at the clarity that will come from getting out from this kind of bondage. I love Jesus. He is all I need. God bless you for reading this to the end.

@majamaja8136

Жыл бұрын

We thank the almighty God for opening your spiritual eyes to this deceit .

@kimblepope8435

Жыл бұрын

I love that you allowed the scriptures to lead you. That is the key. It is a live for the truth that keeps us from being deceived. Jesus and Paul gave heavy warnings “be not deceived “, and “strong delusion would come”.

@jinimurray4090

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for pouring your heart out. I went to a local church (not committed as you were/different situation) I loved to go to the prayer meetings. The pastor there had spent a LOT OF MONEY SENDING HIS DAUGHTER TO BETHEL SCHOOL. I was very ill with Hashimoto’s So not easily aware of dangers pit falls… this pastor had a guy from Bethel come who had a mission trip going to Ethiopia I went what a farce! I live according to bible - but the guy openly rebuked me publicly. Shamed me - they said there were healings and salvations but I saw NONE! Since the prayer meeting pastor - the last time I went after I prayed scripture- he rebuked me in his prayer after me. This NAR church is glued to bill johnson. The place I live is so far from any decent size town - so I’m Stuck going to another church (the best of all here) and they play BETHEL MUSIC! I feel strongly even tho I don’t understand properly, that the devil was angel of music and today he uses music to deceive My question is I want to go to leadership but don’t know specifically what is wrong. Please can you help me with this? Thank you in anticipation of your support

@user-qz8ng4nk5b

9 ай бұрын

I DO see this NAR movement is a GREAT DECEPTION and Great Falling Away. There....I've said it...

@JacquelineHahn1

7 ай бұрын

I have a similar story watched the NAR and prosperity gospel infiltrate my church and tried dialogue but ended up having to leave. I am now seeing NAR invade Protestant and evangelical churches here in Australia. A good spirit filled biblical is getting hard to find

As a person who has tried to have this conversation about the music at more than one church, I'm crying tears of thankfulness. We need more people with platforms saying no to this music. Thankfully my current church made this decision a couple years ago without us doing more than praying (others did the coversation) but it's been so hard to feel so lonely in caring about this. I'm so grateful for Holly and Doug and a number of others calling out NAR and the churches that teach their false gospel.

@christamathias233

Жыл бұрын

You are not alone. I've done a lot of church shopping with the vast majority of them using NAR music...but there are a few who understand the problems with music from Bethel, Hillsong, etc. Hopefully, more folks will seriously reconsider their positions in favor of the music if we are going to be honest about worshipping in Spirit and in Truth.

@Broken_Berean

Жыл бұрын

Definitely not alone.

@paulc7190

Жыл бұрын

I disagree.

@victoriagubrud2373

Жыл бұрын

I actually had to find a new church that doesn't sing this music. I just left one that did and I brought it up to the worship leader and he kind of blew me off saying that even if the ministry doesn't worship God the song still does. I couldn't accept that and chose to leave even though I was actually in the choir.

@Bishbud

Жыл бұрын

Why are we even listening to a false gospel?

Alisa, I was a worship leader in a large church being trained to take over the role of music director. I sang mostly Bethel and Hillsong, elevation etc. God awoken me to this and I tried to work out how to compromise and stay in that church. The conviction from God to remove myself from these churches completely was so strong. I knew as much as I tried to reason and compromise to sing "just" the songs from bethel that were doctrinally sound, it was not ok. The fact of the matter is if you are influencing babes in christ and in a position of authority like a worship leader is, you are responsible for where you lead the sheep. And leading anything to bethel, hillsong, etc etc through playing their music FULL STOP, its an abomination in the LORDS eyes. There will come a time where you will have to make your choice and walk away from NAR I believe its the great falling away.

@user-qz8ng4nk5b

9 ай бұрын

I'm thinking this VERY same thing. So I'm researching NAR. I knew something didn't set well in my spirit. So I asked GOD to show me truth. HE IS.... Actually, what I see is...the foundation of the movement is the love of money and power...promised by the Q movement...and dare I say...their God is #45.

@shyloh1980

9 ай бұрын

ANGELICCOOKE, THAT WAS NOT GOD WHO OPEN YOUR EYE ON BETHEL MUSIC. THAT WAS SATAN !!

@nonyabidness5708

9 ай бұрын

Whoo.... I'd be careful labeling things an abomination that are not clearly delineated in scripture. That's very concerning behavior.

@Angeliccooke

9 ай бұрын

@@nonyabidness5708 lol you're deluded

@Perktube1

8 ай бұрын

What's the falling away? People leaving the church or people leaving the NAR church?

I've been to a church exactly like this. My son's went there and didn't ever invite me to mother's day dinner and the "apostle" took over my mothers car payment loan and he was late. He disrespected me and my mother so much and taught that to my son, I believe. My son will do anything they ask. They have turned him against me. It's been terrible and I could go on and on about that cult. I pray for me and my oldest son's relationship to be restored to the way it once was and more importantly his relationship with God. I miss and love him and his children, my grandchildren I love and miss them so much. My youngest son went there too and that's another story but I'm thankful for our relationship and my little grandson from him. Thank you for this video. God bless and keep you all.❤️🙏

As a former Mormon I found myself in churches that were beginning to adopt this theology and was thinking... I just left this lie and here it is again in bright new shiny packaging 😟

@domblack6288

Жыл бұрын

Right. Joseph Smith added to the text of scripture just Brian Simmons did.

@nccrchurchunusual7990

Жыл бұрын

If there is a way to control ppl and get their money.... there will be those wolves in sheep clothing- the church is a target. It's wrong to drawn ppl to church with amazing music that mimicks worldly concerts only to teach false doctrines from pulpit. Also the music has become so entertainment oriented, manipulating ppl emotions & emphasizing me me me- worship is about Him, not the musicians. Roman's 8:16 says God's Spirit speaks to our spirit- not our emotions & feelings as they vacillate all over the place. Also, the Risen Christ is the head of His Church and the ministry of the Apostles & prophets continue thru the written Word so we dont need people in those positions. God grant us discernment...wisdom to lead

@HisServant77

Жыл бұрын

Unfortunately lies know no bound of religion or denomination. The devil loves to get at the people level and introduce lies at the very person's level. So no matter where we go we will always face something like lies and false doctrine that needs to be exposed and corrected.

@BM-fz9yc

Жыл бұрын

Girl saaaaame! I escaped Mormonism when I was 13. I recently was going to a charismatic church that used TPT and found the origin story of how it was written and my alarm bells were going OFF. I tried to warn people but they were just not hearing it. I told myself the SAME thing. It took 13 years to escape a church influenced by a false prophet there is no way I’m doing it twice!

@jinimurray4090

Жыл бұрын

@@BM-fz9yc GOOD FOR YOU!!!! Do you read Chuck & Nancy Missler ? Get some of their books. Soooo good I wish I could connect with you I live in a Mormon owned town they control police courts everything I believe God has me here to be a light I witnessed They trumped up loads false charges threw me into solitary … no representation… finally afte I had to fire my $10,000 lawyer ( I found out he was working with the court against me) went to court alone and the judge screamed at me Why are you in xxxxxxx we do t want you here. Get OUT WHEN ARE YOU LEAVING!!!?? There’s more but Later I asked ( a stranger is that judge still here in the court? No the stranger replied “All of a sudden he went ‘funny in the head and took early retirement. I’m still here. (Alone - very alone but Hoy Spirit comforts me) thank you - please help me/others how to help LDS.

Music is the universal language and can be a powerful tool that folks can use to draw others...like the Pied Piper. I grew up WOF, spent 20 years in the New Age & later got involved with Bethel through a satellite ministry, before the Lord pulled me out of the darkness. The problem with using Bethel music has to do with their theology which is blended into their music & mostly flies under the radar. If you aren't familiar with how Bethel redefines common Christian terms, you probably won't see much of a problem with their music. If you are familiar with Bethel/WOF (now known as NAR) theology you will hear the message of their music loud and clear, sung by oceans of people who have no clue what they are saying or doing. Thank you for being willing to discuss this issue. Many churches find folks that take issue with Bethel music divisive. However, those same churches that are labeling folks as divisive have little understanding of WOF/NAR theology as a whole, therefore they can't fully understand the problems in the music. This problem makes it very difficult to find a church that does not play Bethel, Hillsong, etc.

@MrsKeane25

Жыл бұрын

Excellent reply.I totally agree

@mstar4150

Жыл бұрын

Spot on

@saraz9017

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. As a worship leader I finally started to figure this out. I realized the Christian worship music industry operates as a network. All artists and main worship leaders end up writing songs with each other and crossing over theological lines with bethel, hillsong, Catholics etc.

@IntuitiveCoachTheresa

Жыл бұрын

Yes, in my experience as "head prophet" In a NAR based ministry (they came out of it the first few years I was there), I found that it was VERY difficult to help people see this deception, because their HEART has to be WILLING to see it, to come out of self worship. Shows like "Chosen" also are NAR based, the "self worship" doctrine.

@judybooth110

Жыл бұрын

The Song BECAUSE HE LIVES I CAN FACE TOMORROW and many other songs are so beautiful and have touched my life. I may not believe every thing the person who wrote song but that does not keep me from singing that song.

Prayer declarations are simply refashioned law of attraction for the Christian church. It really is a New Age teaching and has no place in a Christian's prayer life.

@IntuitiveCoachTheresa

Жыл бұрын

Straight up.

@paulc7190

Жыл бұрын

Nope.

@ryanjamesc9996

Жыл бұрын

Facts! 👏🏻👏🏻

@TBird5790

2 ай бұрын

Not correct.

@robertburke9920

Ай бұрын

Are not prophets assigned to correct rotten seminaries? Rotten pastors? Rotten church leaders? No? Well, enjoy the page-turner novel "Where Do We Go Now, LORD? - Burke." Enjoy.

Refreshing to hear this. The backlash against these false prophets are underway.

Music is the most powerful thing in the world, and it permeates our mind and spirit without us realizing it. I have been a Christian for more than 40 years now, and yet if I hear music from my BC days, I can remember the lyrics perfectly. These are songs that I sang from birth through age 20, and I am about to turn 70. It is the easiest way to memorize as well. Put true Scripture to music, and sing it regularly, and you will have so much Scripture hidden in your heart. ❤

I’m late to this conversation, but as a long time resident of Redding, there are many who leave true Bible teaching churches to go to Bethel because of the music. The music does suck people into the Bethel doctrine.

@dessyedeeclark1144

Ай бұрын

Wow. I have some extended family living in Redding. Time to give them a call.

As a new Worship leader of our teeny Church this issue has been on my shoulders since I started so this video couldn’t have come at a better time… thanks for posting it… keep up the great Kingdom work! Shalom from Florida 🕊🪔🕊

Thank you for this!! Very timely as I just moved close by to Bethel and meeting many who attend there. Have been praying for discernment in my interactions with these lovely families.

I LOVE your discernment!! I am teaching a women's class this summer at my church about TRUTH, why it is important and why we need to be discerning and how to be discerning. I came out of Mormonism, so TRUTH is so important to me.

@nathalynhaynes9397

Ай бұрын

Thank you for allowing God to do that. I am looking for a study for our women's ministry and "truth" resonated. 😊

I came out of these churches after being Roman Catholic. God gripped my heart, and I KNOW that I accepted the death, burial and resurrection of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in fourth grade. I'm now 56 and didn't get out of these outfits until the plague happened in 2020. I was one of those people that prayed for Olive. Why? Because James says that the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much; however, at the same time, I told everybody that it's God's prerogative if He wants to do this. I think it's amazing that God protects us wayward little sheep with the desire so intense to learn about Him that we will go from venue to venue until we finally understand that it's all revealed right in front of us in HIS WORD. This is hard to listen to because I GET what these people are falling for. The Charles Spurgeon quote is 💯 . I'm convinced that God had a legion of angels protecting me so that every time I learned something ridiculous, I didn't adopt it but kept seeking. If you don't think that God goes after the one sheep, I can probably declare that you are sorely mistaken. 😪😪😪😪 I love my Daddy.

The more "they explain" the more alarm bells are going off. Thank you Alisa, thank you LORD. Stay in prayer and in the LORD all.

Why? There are so, so many beautiful old hymns that have been packed away that should be sung.

@GLRDesignsdotcom

Жыл бұрын

👍 We still sing them at our church, and in our home! 😃♥️

@jezzamobile

Жыл бұрын

New songs bring $royalties & celebrity to their 'composers'. Explains a lot.

@nanabear6640

Жыл бұрын

Your comment echos during Christmas time especially. How POWERFUL Handel’s Messiah all these HUNDREDS OF YEARS LATER! I pulled out old Hymnal this morning to play Noel and then noted Count Your Blessings and others. STILL powerful. The church I sometimes attend, has Bethel’s influence and Bill Johnson speaks there annually. I have only one critique as I appreciate they go after healing, miracles, the prophetic and do emphasize Bible study. I don’t like songs that don’t use Jesus name and I don’t feel I’m being fed meat. For those hardened against Christianity I see they can and have permeated hardened hearts.

@melindamercier6811

Жыл бұрын

Bethel and such aside, and to be fair, new Christian worship and new hymns can be just as beautiful as beautiful old hymns. There are terrible old hymns as well as beautiful hymns written by people whose theology were WAY off, lol. What matters is content, not time period or style.

@sharoncolumpsi5249

Жыл бұрын

Melinda just out of curiosity what do you consider a terrible old hymn?

Doug really caught my attention when he talked about NAR beliefs inducing anxiety. I was instantly reminded of my experience with YWAM. I just couldn't understand why God wasn't talking to me like everyone else claimed. I would get up at night, pace around, flip my Bible open randomly and read whatever verse my finger happened to land on, desperate for a personal message from God. Everything was so mystical. Many leaders, after making decisions, would claim that God told them to do it, freeing themselves from any personal responsibility for their own decisions. To question the decision would either be to question God, or to call them a liar by saying that God never spoke to them, so nobody questioned. I have seen this abused many times. I'm so glad that God rescued me from that movement, especially before I was diagnosed with cancer 4 years ago. NAR/WOF have nothing helpful to say to the sick, only that sickness can never be the will of God and that you just need to believe it and have more faith. I didn't know what the outcome of my battle with cancer would be, but I knew that whatever happens to me in this life, God has an infinitely better place waiting for me. I am thankful that the Lord allowed me to survive that difficult trial in my life and it was a very humbling experience that caused me to learn many new things about God's character that I had never understood previously. I didn't know whether I was going to make it or not, but strangely, more so probably, than at any other stage in my life, I felt a peace that can only come from the Lord. I didn't know what was going to happen to me, but I was okay with that because it wasn't up to me. I knew that I was in the best possible place; in the arms of God. I no longer had any anxiety. I had learned that God is sovereign and He uses situations like this to grow our faith.

@jaelanderson6263

Жыл бұрын

Thank you what a beautiful testimony. I'm trying find church & seeking peace. These false churches nar cause anxiety. I'm glad for this podcast & what you said. Making what real faith is more clear. Thank you. Praying I get back peace I once knew. 🙏

@shadowprovesunshine

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for sharing, lymphoma survivor here. The Lord spoke to me through so many people during that time. Still processing it really.

@davidwireback8621

7 ай бұрын

And I don't believe you were ever in YWAM . At least not the one that Lauren Cunningham ran. They would never teach you to pop your finger on the Bible and begin to read looking for guidance. Now I know there are people out there that was a guy told me to do this and God speaking to me about this and it might not be Guard at all. and what I know why weren't they would never teach that the leader ship has complete authority over you and that you can't question them. These two authors have been deceiving people about NAR . There is no organize group and they claim there is. The Bible clearly says that there is a five fold ministry which includes apostles and prophets.. we would never cheat that people in this position have supreme authority over your life or that they cannot be challenging anyway. Even the apostle Paul himself who had the authority to write new revelations to be added to scripture. Send it if he or anybody else preach the gospel different than the one that he had already preach let them be anathema. So you see the gospel the word of God is our supreme authority not people. Just because some people misapply some principles of healing or authority in God doesn't mean it's false

@jillthereckless5949

3 ай бұрын

What a gift that it doesn’t depend on us! We can rest in His will. I hope you are doing well.

I was involved in this movement for two years. It wasn't fun. I am thankful for this new book in helping people to sound the alarm about the NAR. Don't let experience be your guide. Only the Word of God is infallible.

Yes TPT is still on the YouVersion Bible app......still. This whole topic is important to talk about!!!! I trained in Bethel Sozo healing ministry and my eyes were opened wide in the training. Being a worship leader for 4 decades, it is very sneaky and infiltrates more than many realize. My degree is in Biblical Studies and this teaching is what i would refer to as Emotionalism. I have learned so much because of this eye opening and now I have a KZread channel combating misuse of Scripture. Keep talking about this stuff, Alisa.

The music is like candy leading hearts to unsound theology…as well as to new age practices. Been heartbreaking to witness firsthand. Thankful for the work you 3 are doing! Praying loads!

I'm so glad this topic was brought up. When I mention this to some of my family members, they just tell me I'm being legalistic.

@DomsVidz

Жыл бұрын

Legalistic or religious are words Commonly used. Where Jesus never spoke against either. Mat 23 Jesus uses the correct word. Hypocrite. The Passion translation loves to use religious in a negative context and use this word 100s of time when other correct translation don't even mention or hint to these words

@paiger6058

Жыл бұрын

@@DomsVidz Wow! That's pretty wild. That translation is sounding more and more terrible to me. I do not own a TPT bible and I never will.

@markshaneh

Жыл бұрын

@@DomsVidz Also the passion is not accepted as a “translation” by peer approved biblical linguistic scholars. ✌🏽

@jonahhanson38

Жыл бұрын

Same

@kellydarrius

Жыл бұрын

@@DomsVidz "Religious" and "hypocrite" have become synonymous in our modern culture, and I believe it is well deserved. Most so-called religion is simply a deification of a glorified version of self.

I wish I could like this a hundred times. The NAR is so dangerous BECAUSE it’s so sneaky. I have a wounded past with this movement that I didn’t even know about until I stepped away.

I thank God for all of you in bringing the truth of this movement to light. In 2014 I was headed to Bethel as I was involved with many believers who followed the teachings of Bill Johnson. But, by the grace of God that part of my journey was divinely stopped by the hand of God. Today, I have been brought out of the NAR, WOF, Name and claim it teachings and have been growing deeper in my knowledge of the word of God. What is so disheartening is that many are turning from the truth seeking signs, wonders and miracles. I have yet to find a church home here in my small community that is truly biblically based. Many blessings to you all!

Thanks for covering the passion [translation]. So many church folks have been deceived by this heretical work. Keep up the great work.

@izuix5629

6 ай бұрын

timestamp: 44:50

Alisa... Thank you SO much for this episode! The more I learn, the more I realize how subtly this movement HAS influenced so many people I know. I too must raise my hand and say that for a number of years I simply nodded my head to what was being preached, or sung, or prayed and I was not like a Berean, studying the scriptures to discern if these things were truth. God in His amazing grace has pulled me from many false ideas that were espoused through these modes. Thank you to Holly and Doug for your research, your charitable exposure and for the book... I ordered it! I truly want to share this episode with many friends... praying to have wisdom if and when to do so. & for receptive hearts.

@kyrielovesthelord

Жыл бұрын

Be brave! The sheep will know His voice!

@c.greystone9825

Жыл бұрын

Yes that’s true. Instead of NAR (which adherents don’t call it that way), it’s just a different label such as neo charismatic, word of faith, health and wealth (Meyer, Prince, Copeland etc) new reformation (Sondergard).

My son’s widow is wrapped up in the Bethel cult and is influencing my 11 year old granddaughter. Pray she will be protected from it.

@prov2.3-5

9 ай бұрын

Father, praying that the Truth sets them free from all deception

@rachelstudley266

8 ай бұрын

I suppose she is influencing your grandson with good stuff. As long as I see a positive change in my grandchildren I will believe it is God.

@MavMin

8 ай бұрын

@@rachelstudley266 there is nothing good coming out of Bethel, Redding and those like it.

@TBird5790

2 ай бұрын

@@MavMin Abosolutely incorrect.

@MavMin

2 ай бұрын

It is a bed of seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.

My mother, born in 1920 would call this “name it and claim it.” This kind of thinking has been around a long time. Just dressed up differently from one era to the next.

@raevj

2 ай бұрын

Yeah, based on The Law of Attraction principles that have been around quite awhile under many different names.

Glad to see Alisha going on record - thanks for posting this.

As a worship leader for many years, to sing or not to sing these songs has been a question I have asked myself and others in the church for some time now. It’s a tough one, especially when some of the songs do not have anything doctrinally unsound. I think keeping away from all appearance of evil is wise.

@DunderMifflin_ThisisPam

Жыл бұрын

I don't worry about it too much. Because if you throw out all Bethel music you have to throw out Phil Wickham, who has written a song with Bill Johnson, and so then Kari Jobe, Chris Tomlin, and on and on and on. Pretty soon you just have Sovereign Grace (hello, huge controversy there with CJ Mahaney) and maybe the Getty's, but if it's guilt by association then we all have to go.

@arlyssepena-furlow2040

Жыл бұрын

@@DunderMifflin_ThisisPam I disagree. My church manages not to sing Bethel music and we are doing fine. In fact, we had a wonderful praise time this morning prior to hearing the message.

@Weissguys6

Жыл бұрын

Don’t you copyright fees to play their music? This is supporting a false gospel. No good.

@mstar4150

Жыл бұрын

I would strongly encourage to not song their songs. My personal experience was that my former church sang songs from Bethel, Hillsong, Elevation and I loved them so much that I started listening to their sermons as well. This is where their deceptive and false teaching crept in and it almost shipwrecked my faith. I know that many songs are "fine" but it can lead people to listen to the pastors of those churches. God bless.

@JamesAllen-CoffeeAndTeaMan

Жыл бұрын

I think the tradition of singing "songs" for worship needs to be reviewed. I love what IHOP is doing in the sense of allowing them to be led by Holy Spirit to create new heavenly sounds.

I love how these two intelligent people discuss the topic so calmly and always with the Bible in view. Thank you!

I can’t thank you enough for this podcast! It was so eye-opening! I am purchasing the book as we speak and am already sharing this podcast with others. Thank you!

Thank you so much for this episode, Alisa. I am a pastor, and I can hardly stomach CCM music any more. We are so, so careful what music we sing in our worship services, to the point that a large majority of our songs are driven by older hymns (perhaps with more contemporary tunes, like Indelible Grace). I would love to see you tackle the whole Christian music scene, because the problem is wider than just the NAR movement. So much of music today is driven by the church "worship" band model. And so many songs are me-focused rather than God-focused. ("I praise you God because you accept me the way I am!") It's a message that leads people down the wide path that leads to destruction! I think you are uniquely qualified to speak to this issue because of your background. I believe that churches and Christians need to learn discernment, because the more these songs are elevated to "viral" status, the more they will dominate Christian thinking and beliefs.

@lcollins4313

Жыл бұрын

Pastor Spencer Smith did some documentaries on music. He’s a Baptist Missionary. Documentaries are well researched, well done and well received. There are 3 presently and he’s creating a 4th. All can be found on YT. MessedupChurch also covered some of these high profile churches, Hillsong Christmas cabaret .

@MarcVesseur

Жыл бұрын

I, I, I,I,I,I, 6 times you use that word in your comment. I think, I believe, I would and so on. How many times does David refer to himself in relation to his worship to God? So why can’t the people of God nowadays sing about their heart, their longing, their awe, their lips, when praising the Lord??

@TBird5790

Жыл бұрын

@Bill W - Does your "worship" service has any life at all? You can hardly stomach contemporary Christian music? That is a very closed, negative perspective on all the thousands of songs that are written by people who love Jesus and want to worship him with all their hearts. They use the talents that God has given them to write music that expresses that love for Christ. You can hardly stomach that? I feel sorry for you .

@johnf.1969

Жыл бұрын

I miss the old hymns. Someone said "they codify the Word of God , edify the body of Christ and Glorify God"

@judysoroka2392

Жыл бұрын

Hear hear. I find that most pastors I’ve spoken to think regarding bethel music just think it’s a non-issue. I can barely stomach the “worship”at times at our new church when we left an Alliance church that has totally gotten into NAR etc. May God bless you and your flock as you teach truth and live truth.

So appreciative of this teaching! I’ve been involved in worship as a leader and a support musician for 25 years. I have had some difficulty with this movement but couldn’t put my finger on why. Now I understand more clearly!

Thankyou Alisa , Holly and Doug for this really helpful and insightful conversation. As a songwriter who was in the NAR environment for over a decade , I have realised how much my song writing during that time was influenced by the theology that was subtly infiltrating my thinking and understanding about what I believed to be true. I realise now that if I am going to write songs that express any aspect of theology or philosophy , I need to be sure that my written expressions are faithful to sound biblical understanding. Music is such a wonderful gift from God and most of us are wired to respond emotionally to it and that makes it a powerful medium through which to influence people emotionally and help them disengage their minds from the actual words they’re singing. Maybe that’s why I compose more instrumental music than I used to. ! Some thoughts are just to challenging to articulate. Praying for you guys in your ongoing ministries to us for which I am truly grateful. 🙏

I really appreciate this conversation! Thank you for helping to expose their beliefs. Even among the most solid theological Christians, so many try to justify listening to Bethel and singing their songs in church. It’s is such an important topic to understand!

@TBird5790

Жыл бұрын

You do realize that a lot of their songs are not written by Bethel songwriters (and not Hillsongs either) don't you? Just keep throwing out anointed worship music because Bethel sings them in their worship services. I would get a balanced perspective by watching some Dr. Michael Brown's videos. A blessed brother who has been in ministry for 50 years or so. But he is charismatic, so if you bristle at healing and the Holy Spirt moving in Christians today, well, you may already have your mind made up about that too. I hope not. because he is a very knowledgeable and theologically proper teacher. Thanks. I watch Mike Winger, who is very thorough, and shows such grace, along with The Remnant, Dr. Michael Brown, Alisa Childers, and Jeff Durbin, a Calvanist, who is a very good, and also compassionate pastor.

This is so important. We are dealing with this on an individual basis and with worship. Thank you all so much!!!

Wow! This was such a great video in its layout and discussion. I began investigating NAR, Bethel music and like churches (ie Hillsong, Elevation, Maverick City, ect.) when on the drive home from church my 13 year-old asked me about the theology of a song we sang that morning. I knew it was written by Bethel (i.e. Brian Johnson) and that I didn’t agree with them on several theological issues but hadn’t looked into them. Within 9 months of reading, watching videos of sermon clips and analyzing their music I discovered what you laid out in a very concise 1 1/2 hour presentation. Well done, I am recommending this video to quickly get an understanding of the issues with NAR and Bethel.

Alisa I’m so excited to see how much your channel has grown. I remember working a few of your concerts and y’all where so nice to everyone. God bless

Very insightful, thank you everyone. I would love a part 2.

This really brought together everything that I've been seeing for a while at our church. We're stepping up our search for a new church.

Thank you. Being an older individual I have been a part of the "word of faith" movement and gravitated toward the NAR for a portion of my walk with the Lord. As I have grown and followed on to know the Lord He has been causing me to question much around these movements associated with the Christian church; even going so far as how I have prayed over the years. Lately the Lord has caused me to be cautious around the "decree" and "declare" forms of prayer. This is not a form of prayer I have actually practiced myself; but have been associated with many who have and do. The church my husband and I have returned to have echoed the same sentiments surrounding Bethel and Hillsong music. This has really helped me. Again, thank you much! God Bless! Will be getting the book.

What a wonderful episode. So full of thought-provoking simple wisdom, discernment we can receive through The Holy Spirit, by staying true to God's Word and not looking for the big neurochemical blast of being in a wooshy worship service. While I was listening I started imagining different lyrics to "Oceans" in which "may Your Will be done" and "we are so easily fooled" played heavily... Thank you Alisa, and your two guests, for such practical and valuable thoughts and evidence that we need to be Bereans in our navigation through these times. "Prophets" in my humble opinion, are often Predators, whether or not they know it themselves, and I have friends who are so dramatic about their faith and spiritual life that now I wonder if they're into NAR teachings without even knowing it... I'll continue to love them and pray for them, and for all who are trapped in this melodramatic presentation of a twisted gospel... It will be a rough road for them to return from these teachings, may it be God's Will that they do, because HE will keep them and heal their psychological wounds from their experiences! We love and worship The Great Physician, and He can heal wounded hearts better than ANYONE! PRAISE BE TO GOD for He is Mighty and ALL we need.

Thanks for covering this topic Alisa. It's so so so important!

I had the unhappy experience several years back of attending a local, unaffiliated church that was just then starting to trend toward the NAR. I spoke privately with the pastor and one associate pastor about my concerns over Hillsong and Bethel songs finding their way into the worship sets and was essentially blown off. The pastor more or less said he wasn't interested in the doctrinal positions of the writers of the songs we sang. Shortly thereafter, one of the other associate pastors started dropping Bethel's name into his sermons and preaching obvious NAR doctrine. The Sunday on which he told the congregation that they needed to be more open to the miraculous, including raising the dead, as a normative experience, I saw which way the wind was blowing and left.

@ryanehlis426

Жыл бұрын

Sad watching you religious people reject the moving of the Holy Spirit 😢

@jenkinsbrigade9862

Жыл бұрын

@@ryanehlis426 We only reject false holy spirits -- you know, like the one that Benny Hinn wishes offered a holy ghost "machine gun" so he could "blow (John MacArthur's) head off." 🙄

@ryanehlis426

Жыл бұрын

@@jenkinsbrigade9862 I love Benny Hinn and John Mac :) I have benefited from Both there teaching very much. They both should not be speaking about each other.

@dennis9879

Жыл бұрын

What's wrong with raising the dead, or casting out demons? I don't trust NAR either. But Jesus said to walk in his footsteps. He did these things, and we should too. I have done both these things, and haven't been to church in 20 yrs. To much corruption and deciet and lies in EVERY DENOMINATION. But miracles r common around me, because I walk in Jesus footprints. Wake up, ok.. Now most tongues is demonic when tested by 1 John 41-4. So beware of that. Benny Hinn s slaying in spirit is mostly demonic also. That guy disgusts me. He needs exorcism, to get rid of false religious spirits. Most of NAR are full of Lucifers spirit, pretending to be the holy ghost . That's a fact. False religious spirits. Jesus says, many will be cast into hell, saying we cast of devils, raised the dead, why are we on hell? Because they used lucifers fake religious spirit, and refused to test and cleanse themselves using 1 John 4:1-4. Benny Hinn will never test himself. He is foul and gross. Period. Same with all denominations. Gross and foul. ALL OF THEM.

@fnjesusfreak

Жыл бұрын

@@ryanehlis426 Actually, jenkinsbrigade FOLLOWED the moving of the Holy Spirit. If there was a spirit moving in that church it was absolutely NOT the Holy Spirit.

I have been so blessed by this. Thank you Alissa fir helping the body of Christ

Very very very very very very very good!! Easy and good to follow information. It shows the many many dangers and negative influences NAR has. Thank you thank you!!

Grateful for this discussion. I'll share it with my NAR friends!

This was so helpful and timely as my husband and I have had alarms going off during discussions with close family of ours and this puts words to things they are gravitating towards. It has started to create some strain but We will pray for them and are determined to stay true to our convictions but maintain loving relationship and not let enemy cause divide.

Whoa thank you for this! It made me take a deeper look at what I’m actually saying while singing these worship songs; I no longer want to support something that leads so many souls astray! Thank you for shining a light and opening my eyes 🫶🏻

This is the exact quote from Bill Johnson: “Music bypasses all of the intellectual barriers, and when the anointing of God is on a song, people will begin to believe things they wouldn’t believe through teaching.” 😬

@jenkinsbrigade9862

Жыл бұрын

Another shining example of Bill's "experience trumps doctrine" ecclesiology.

@robertaanderson4809

Жыл бұрын

I have tried to find that quote before. Do you mind sharing how I might find that.

@paulc7190

Жыл бұрын

The ministry of the Holy Spirit is so lacking in any church .. Bethel has been bringing back the standard, of which I have been blessed, healed and delivered through all forms of The Spirit.

@ryanehlis426

Жыл бұрын

@@paulc7190AMEN!

@7748bassfisherman

Жыл бұрын

@@paulc7190 Blessed how? Healed of what? Delivered to what and from what?

Thank you Holly, Doug and Alisa!! I've got your books and find them beyond helpful in my relationship with God!! Loved the podcast and hope to see the three of you together more often.

This was fascinating and so helpful - thank you! I especially found the discussion about declaration “prayer” interesting, as I used to be part of a church that taught this.

The likes of Bethel teach another "gospel." I've been sounding the alarm on this topic for over a year now as well. Thank you for addressing this.

Thank you for sharing this. I’ve been praying for a friend who does not understand about the issues with the music. I can’t even share this video with her because her head is firmly planted in the sand.

Love these guys and the content is badly needed. Ty

Great interview! Thank you so much.

I agree with much of what you've said. However, as long as the lyrics of the song appear to me to align with Scripture, I feel free singing it. I don't care who was involved in producing the song. I'm singing it as a way to glorify God. At least that's my intent. I don't want the anxiety that comes with worrying about the personal theology of every songwriter. I'll just humbly pray that the Lord will accept my worship.

@carolinefransen468

Жыл бұрын

I totally agree

@peterkincaid6406

Жыл бұрын

I pray that WITCH GOD RE VEALED TO ME 36 YEARS WHO REVEALED OUR SPIRITUAL QUEEN MOTHER JEZEBEL IN WHOSE WOMB OF WICKEDNESS ALL WERE BORN IN HER WOMB OF WICKEDNESS.....AND ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO CAME FACE TO FACE WHO WHAT AND HOW YOUR SPIRITUAL QUEEN MOTHER JEZEBELS OPERATING OVER BETHELS CHURCH. !!! ??? WHY IS THIS LADY ON LEFT DESTROYING AND CON DEMMING THAT IN WHICH GOD SAYS THAT HE WILL ESTABLISH GODS KING DOME UP ON EARTH. IF ANY ONE DOES NOT WANT TO BUILD HIS BODY OF CHRIST. UPON EARTH. THEN PLEASE FIRST GO PULL YOUR CAR APART. AND PUT IT TO BUILD IT UP. YOUR CAR. YOUR WAY. NOT .. GODS !!! IF ANY ONE DOES NOT WANT TO PLACED IN THE EXACT PLACE WHERE GOD DESIGNED YOU TO FIT..... THEN PLEASE THROW EVERY WORD DOWN. AND DO IT YOUR WAY. AND NOT YAWEHS !!! DESPITE THAT.... AS I SAID 10 PLUS YEARS AGO !!! GOD BLESS. AMEN. JEZEBEL IS ALLLL OVER BILLS *" CHURCH !! HEY. HOW DID JESUS BUILD HIS CHURCH. FIRST AS GOD TOLD. SHOWED TO HIM. HIS APOSTLES. THEN HIS PROPHETS HIS LIVING STONES IN GODS ORDER ... IN HIS CHURCH WITCH IN FACT JESUS SAID HE IS RE TURNING TO BUILD HEAVEN UP ON. !!! GOD BLESS. AMEN !!!

@with.the.y

9 ай бұрын

Agreed.

@LindaRamsey-it4ug

9 ай бұрын

Agreed

@rachelstudley266

8 ай бұрын

Agreed

Really great podcast. I'm not a Bethel attendee or do I know much about their school of miracles, but I want to focus on an important issue. Two pastors from Bethel were mentioned repeatedly in this podcast by both Doug & Holly. Before writing their book, or even before creating the podcast, did either of the three of you call or sit with Bill Johnson or Kris Vallotton to speak to them about their personal perspectives? Or did all the perspectives come from the interpretation each of you made about what you may have read? In studying scripture, which you mention in this podcast as well, context (full context) is necessary to understand and interpret the truth being presented. I believe the best way to that full, honest context is to speak directly to those who originated the thought. I realize that we don't have the writers of the Bible that we can easily access to ask for context, but the Holy Spirit leads us into the truth of the Scriptures that He authored. But, Bill and Kris are accessible. Perhaps the second podcast that youo mentioned twice, should include either of those 2 men (or both). I'd really like to hear their perspectives on the matter.

@marisoljacobo3085

11 ай бұрын

Definitely agree!

@janadominika

7 ай бұрын

Very good point,I totally agree.

@melissajoy7823

5 ай бұрын

I'm glad they did this video. A lot of people can really relate to what and who they're talking about, me included. These so called leaders, Bill Johnson and Kris Vallaton and the local pastors that follow their teachings mostly are never open for discussion.

@ajwerth7558

4 ай бұрын

Mr. Johnson’s and Mr. Valloton’s “perspective on this matter” isn’t secret. They post many many videos of their preaching and teaching and opinions. If we can’t trust that what they say in these public utterances reflects their beliefs, there’s no point in having private conversations.

@dessyedeeclark1144

Ай бұрын

I recall listening to other theologians who HAVE had private c onversations, and have invited public discussions. Holly and Doug were very prayerful about all of this and didn't merely leap to judgment. I will try to find some documentation for you. You might find some evidence of this respectful disagreement by reading about Dominion theology.

Thank you for this insightful podcast. You really cleared a few things up for me.

This was insightful. Thank you!

Thank you for this important interview.

Great video. And I love that you didn’t lump all charismatics in with the NAR movement. I’m not trying to discredit everyone in the charismatic church. It makes it easier to share videos like these and put this info out there with out there being a place to “brush it off” just because someone may or may not believe in the sign gifts for today.

Excellent interview. Thank you so much for having them on.

Thank you for bringing to the light more clearly things we may have questioned as being unbiblical, but not studied and been bold enough to define!

I grew up in a traditional Pentecostal church and then as a teen was introduced to my current church, which began leaning heavily on NAR teaching. I'm now in my 30s and am really examining some of what I've been taught. I want to thank you Alisha and your guests for revealing your concerns in a very humble and loving way. Too often when I hear Christians confront other Christians with different beliefs, they do so in a manner that's arrogant, condemning and or just plain rude. A very well done podcast.

@jeffdavis7543

9 ай бұрын

Rebecca I definitely agree with your comments. I've prayed for spiritual discernment since my salvation pilgrimage began, and that discernment is accomplished by studying your bible, with reinforcement spent in your prayer closet. Trust JESUS and look for His return.

This was excellent. Thank you.

Thank you so much for making this video! My family and I left an NAR-influenced church in 2020 and I’m still working to detangle some of the false teachings in my brain. This was very helpful!

Thank you for this vitally important warning, presented with your usual clarity and devotion to following correct philosophical principles. I'll be ordering both your book and Counterfeit Kingdom to give to my church leaders and worship leaders. I'm also praying for God's will to prevail!

Thank you Alisa for exposing the TRUTH! 🙏🏾 God bless you & your ministry

@jeffgarner3178

Жыл бұрын

She Slandered a Church.

The part about having to learn how to pray is so true. My husband and I both noticed they we needed to learn how to pray after coming out of a church similar to these churches.

Thank you for bringing this issue to light!

Thank you Alisa, Holly and Doug 💜

Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. II Timothy 4:2‭-‬4 NKJV

Thank you for this! I have been trying to find resources that speak to the "new prophets" in particular. It is like all of a sudden God is "speaking" to these random people on KZread about so many things. Makes no sense and yet they have thousands of views! I will look up the authors so I can learn more because not many people are addressing this issue.

Thank you so much for this teaching, it’s really helped clarify things for me.

Timeless and priceless!! Thank you.

I read the book discussed here (Counterfeit Kingdom) and it gave me so much clarity and put all the pieces together of what was taking over our church. I tell everyone I can to read it! Best thing we ever did was read through the whole Bible on our own (with the Bible Recap reading plan). Best way to spot counterfeit is to know scripture for yourself! Thanks so much to these authors for all the research and work that went into exposing this false teaching.

The passion translation sounds alot like how Joseph Smith wrote the book of Mormon.

Fantastic interview!

Wow! This is eye opening. Thank you!!!!

This conversation is so timely for me. I have been attending a church in Snohomish WA called PURSUIT NW (watch KZreads) for a couple of years now and I’ve been so concerned with the direction the church is going. The church has grown from maybe 500 to now over 2500 in two years. I for one am totally exhausted. They have had Bill Johnson come. The church has rented the Angel of the winds arena in Everett Wa for Easter. Guest speaker will be Benny Hinn for an Easter evening healing Service. I’m having a difficult time because my wife and daughter are so sold on it. ✝️

@jessbecause7

Жыл бұрын

I know exactly what your talking about! I watched Russel during Covid, it was really great!! Then he stated talking about going on tv and very soon after the preaching went down hill. Then he announced Benny and also during a sermon he said he was in support of a few ministries that all should avoid!! Red flags flew all over like crazy!! What happened there 😢

@annalangenderfer2508

Жыл бұрын

Your concerns are valid. Lead your wife and daughter away from the dangers of these leaders and save your family from corrupt teaching. Praying your family can get involved in a Bible teaching congregation that you all can grow and serve in!

@prov2.3-5

9 ай бұрын

Praying for you Michael for wisdom and grace in addressing this with your wife and daughter

@dessyedeeclark1144

Ай бұрын

I went to church in Snohomish, Everett areas in the 90s... saw some roots of these errant teachings even then. Be strong and lead your family to spiritual safety.

@michaelc.fischer2439

Ай бұрын

@@jessbecause7 Wonderful comments. Thank you for support. Please check out the wonderful teaching from Pastor Cary Green at CornerStone Bible Church in Lake Stevens WA. Real Expository teaching. ❤️✝️

I just finished the Counterfeit Kingdom book recently. Its very good, definitely recommended 👍

All kidding aside Alisa, I want to thank you for all the truly informative interviews you've sponsored pertaining to the Progressive Church and related topics. I've benefited so greatly. Just received your new book ("Live Your Truth ...") and can't wait to dive in. God bless you.

Thanks guys. 🙂 I've ordered Holly Pivets book. I've prayed for the last 15 years to know the truth. His been correcting my steps ever since.

I wonder how Holly and Doug feel about Lifeway publishing their new book since Lifeway also publishes and supports many NAR/WOF teachers and musicians?

Hi Alisa, enjoying every part of this discussion, I'm in agreement all the views expressed. Blessed by your content. God bless.

Super great and informative podcast, I listened to your podcast for the first time yesterday and now, I'll continue listening and sharing 🤗thank God for your teaching 🙏God Bless you all 💞

Thank you so much for drawing attention to these concerning teachings and the problematic Passion Translation.

@crystalfarrow7304

2 ай бұрын

Agreed! AMEN!

Praise the Lord! I have been praying about the music for over two years since the Lord opened my eyes. Now, praying true Christian Churches create your own music. If you are gifted write it and sing it. That is my prayers.

@spencergroup

Жыл бұрын

Your prayers are being answered. As a singer/songwriter/musician, I have started writing music that is more Christ-centered because I have issues with a lot of the music being played in churches today.

@jillianmathews3749

Жыл бұрын

@@spencergroup praise the Lord!

This was amazing!!!

LOVE this convo

Two of my favorite podcasts are Alisa Childers and Bethel sermon of the week. It grieves me to see division growing in the body of Christ over misunderstandings and misinterpretation. The verse that comes to mind is Proverbs 18:17: "The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him." If this all you've heard about Bethel, this is what you'll believe, but you can't really know a person or organization until you've been with them a while. I hope Alisa and her listeners get to know Bethel for themselves.

@austinrumpel2281

10 ай бұрын

I agree. I love Alisa’s stuff and Bethel. Been very positively impacted by both of them.

About 2 years back, our church decided that we would intentionally avoid all Bethel music in our very modern worship service. We exercise caution with music from some other sources. It’s not our intention to be legalistic. But rather, to the very best of our ability to use songs that reinforce right theology. You are so right - music is catechism. Just as we would avoid music written by a known Mormon, or known Muslim, or known worshipper of Ra, even if a particular song or psalm generically offers praise to God, we want to use songs that teach right theology, written by people who stand on the Word of God as our first and primary source of what is right to teach.

SO many people try to pray in this decreeing manner which makes me cringe as a humble requesting posture is what we have patterned in Scripture. Let's try to correct this, CHURCH! God help us!

thank you for your hard work and great topics.

This is so fascinating. My dad had prophetic schools growing up, and most of these NAR ministers spent much time in my home. ( I only know because I Googled what NAR is and was like, oh, those are all my dad's friends that I grew up with. lol) We spent time with their families, and they were an intricate part of my life. It always makes me want to defend it because I knew them. I saw how much time they spent in the Word and their heart for the people. Always a heart that was/is chasing after Jesus. I love that Francis Chan and Mike Bickle recently got to hang out, find commonalities, and build unity. I wish there was more of that in the church. Ironically, I now go to a "seeker-friendly" church that some may call progressive or woke? And yet I've found the same thing as growing up in the prophetic...they absolutely love Jesus and his word. I feel torn and never feel like I belong in a church community because there always seem to be sides or teams. I love the work you do. Grew up on long road trips listening to your dad, "don't shoot the wounded; they need us more than ever. They need our love no matter what it is they've done". Lol. P.S. I never comment on anything. I loathe debates or conflicts. I am throwing in a different perspective. ❤ Also, love the natural grey grow out!

@hannahkroon5233

Жыл бұрын

And you did so with such grace! 👍 On that.

@inchristalone25

Жыл бұрын

But which Jesus do they love? Some people believe Jesus affirms them as being gay.

@hannahkroon5233

Жыл бұрын

@@inchristalone25 I would ask a slightly different question... How do you/they define love? Love for God has to result in obedience... Obedience to his revealed will according to His Word. Add or take away from that and you end up with a God after your own making.

@inchristalone25

Жыл бұрын

@@hannahkroon5233 That's exactly what I was trying to say. A good example of a church that is creating their own God is Elevation Church. It's become more like a motivational speech and feeling in love with God. Romantic love is obviously way different than submitting to His will.

@yochg911

Жыл бұрын

Thank you Ms. Bass... your experiences are appreciated. The important things is "what spirit are we of"... and "are these practices and experiences Scriptural?" There are many things that have changed over the decades and discernment is required along with a much deeper look at the practices many have embraced in the light of scripture.