You forgot the greatest anti-tank weapons the greater good has at its disposal, the Londaxi Tribalest.

@InvasiveWargaming

7 ай бұрын

True. A critical error.

I’ve found that tau path finder rail rifles can be a surprising source of anti tank

Perfect timing. I am about to start a new crusade with friends and the biggest thing I am worried about is the tank spam guard army I will face

@jamesmoriarty7796

7 ай бұрын

I have skyrays now because someone banebladed me to death in a tournament. T13 was just the end of my list. No more.

Can't wait to hear about my beloved Fusionskeel!

@ToastedMap1e

7 ай бұрын

oh

@InvasiveWargaming

7 ай бұрын

I’m so sorry

@jamesgibson9564

7 ай бұрын

Where does the fusionkeel stand?

Nice vid. Would have been nice to see how non-overcharged CIB’s compared too.

I definitely find that having Kauyon as our only detachment is pushing T'au towards a volume of fire angle over quality.

@gabrielblyde2176

7 ай бұрын

I've certainly been using a lot of breacher teams with cadre fireblades with the enhancement that makes the kauyon take place in battle round 2 for larger quantities of fire. I'm interested to see how my strategies will change when Mont'ka comes up

One important thing regarding broadsides is how slow they are. While its easy to hide them its also easy to hide from them. It also makes them more susseptable to deployment mistakes since if they can't see anything it will take them half the game to fix that Crisis on the other hand are much faster, almost omnipresent if you take coldstar commander, and you almost always should on cyclic unit. Hammerheads are a middle of the road option in this discussion. Another thing to add is that hammerheads are so stupidly big that a melee unit that didn't get too high above the requirements of their charge won't be able to consolidate into anything after clearing it, and that combined with it's surprisingly high resilience to melee profiles makes it a good screening unit... It's not exactly the most useful fact in current meta, but it is something that is a good thing so I would count it Meanwhile crisis suits with coldstar are so f

@fendelphi

5 ай бұрын

I also want to point out, that compared to the other 2 options, a Hammerhead is a very cheap and effective investment. For just 130 pts, you get a very mobile Railgun and 2 Seeker Missiles((D6+6)+(D6+1)+(D6+1), or 11-26 potential damage), which with the Hammerhead's special rules and while being guided(can hit on a 2+ even while moving, and can reroll either one hit or wound roll per turn), often means 1 enemy tank destroyed on the Hammerhead's first turn. Basically, if your opponent does not destroy it early(if they get first turn) or does not hide their big stuff well, there is a good chance that they will lose a big monster or vehicle very soon. A single Broadside does not have the same alpha capabilities((D6+1)+(D6+1)+(D6+1), or 6-21 potential damage, if you take the Seeker missile option), so you will probably need two to ensure a kill. That is 180 pts. On top of that, they are far less mobile and need to use the Heavy Keyword(not move) to get to 2+ to hit while Guided. They generally also require 3+ to wound against most transports and a lot of medium tanks(T8, T9 and T10), while the Hammerhead's Railgun still wound on a 2+. A small unit of Crisis Suits is now 200 pts, and it might not have enough CIBs to chew through a heavy target. 27 shots is not bad, but hitting on 3+ when guided and then requiring 5+ to wound, means only 6 shots on average actually wound. If half of them are saved(a 2+ SV target, which becomes a 4+ after AP), you can expect a total of 6 damage dealt on something like a Leman Russ. Of course, with Kauyon(which without a commander, is only available at turn 3+), the number of shots means easy way to generate additional hits, but those extra hits still have to deal with the high toughness and saves. On the other hand, if a Railgun rolls a 6 to hit during Kauyon while guided, it is almost not worth it to roll the dice afterwards(21-36 potential damage form that weapon alone). In short, the Hammerhead is cheap for what it does, and it does it very well. The Broadsides have overall better sustained anti-tank weaponry(once Seekers are fired), but is far less mobile(you can hide from them) and are quite vulnerable to things like Plasma weaponry or Melta weaponry(Toughness 6 profile). I would say that overall, they are better as "anti-elite" and have "Good" anti-tank efficiency. Crisis Suits "can" assist in the anti-tank role, but you have to specialize and invest a lot of points to make a dent in high toughness targets, and you have to get a lot closer. They are much better at other things.

Great video. I tend not to build lists using math hammer but I like to see it when you explain it. You do a good job describing the relationship but also keeping in mind other factors. Thank you for the great content. Keep it up.

Perfect Vid. My Opponent for my upcoming match is World Eaters with Angron, KHORNE Lord of Skulls and Daemon Prince. This will definitely Help

I'm very new to 40k and have been mathhammering hard trying to figure out what I can field to deal with my sister's daemons when we try our first 1k point battle against each other. Staring 3 or 4 T10 4+ 4++ monsters in the face that can delete any infantry within 30" was a great motivator to find something that could deal with them. My math hasn't really involved any seeker missiles because I haven't figured out the cost/benefit ratio of one-shot weapons yet, but ignoring those, the Sun Shark Bomber is pretty promising despite the late arrival. Broadsides just don't have the average dakka to table Be'Lakor or a Keeper of Secrets in less than 2 rounds with 9 suits taking up almost my entire list, whereas 3 Sun Sharks can do the job needed in half the points thanks to their mortal wounds ability putting a thumb on the scale. Efficiency wise, they're still pretty specialized. They don't outperform the Broadsides outside of the higher toughness decent invul targets, like greater daemons or knights; even the Hive Tyrant is still better served by Broadsides.

Also what is the thought of how to best group broadsides, because I’ve always done 2 groups of 2 but don’t know if that’s best or not

@ToastedMap1e

7 ай бұрын

2 per unit is the ideal amount due to playing around battle shock , you can do 3 if you want to get greedy with buffs

@fendelphi

5 ай бұрын

1 per unit is generally not enough to knock out a tank or transport in a single activation, and you have to deal with battle-shock once you are below half your starting wounds. 2 per unit are immune to standard battle-shock(you can get to half unit strength, but not below it). 2 Broadside suits also have enough firepower to fairly reliably destroy a transport or tank in a single activation. 3 per unit is expensive(270 pts), they take up more space on the board(harder to hide or find good firing angles where every model can see the target). You have to take battle-shock tests if reduced to 1 model, and you might end up overkilling transports and even tanks quite often while at full strength, making them overall less efficient for their points.

How many wounds would the Crisis suits suffer from Overcharging the CIB? (On Average) I think that needs to be mentioned. Since they're expensive and you might only have 1 or 2 rounds of shooting before the suits start blowing themselves up. You're most likely using 1/4 (Coldstar+6 Crisis) of your army to eliminate maybe an 1/8 of your opponent's. (A Tank-like unit)

What were the calculations done for efficiency rates?

To caveat my comment I would like to say I dive on your videos when they pop up in my feed and this was no exception. I do appreciate all the hard work you do for the Tau community. I think you massively did Hammerheads wrong. I understand your stated assumption that you were going to ignore all special rules but for a comparison of our best anti tank/monster with the only targets being considered being tanks to then ignore the +1 to hit tanks/monsters that the Hammerhead gets drastically changes the analysis. Also there was no mention in the section other things to consider of the hammerheads 2 seeker missiles (which also benefit from the +1 to hit tanks). When running numbers myself I looked at the damage over three turns to include the use of seeker missiles but to not mention them at all is odd. I actually ran the numbers myself just to check, and while our numbers differ slightly, it does look like you didn't include the Hammerhead's +1 to hit. The assumptions I made was: - no observing - the hammerheads had Twin SMS - ignored one use Seeker missiles - you didn't include the Hammerhead's target Let look at the Leman Russ (using your base numbers), if you include the Hammerhead's +1 to hit it's percentage against the best goes to 112% becoming the top choice, against the Land Raider the Hammerhead jumps to 125%, even against the wraithknight with its 4+ inv save the Hammerhead with +1 to hit would jump it to 90% I couldn't tell because our numbers came out slightly different, were you including devastating wounds for the hammerhead against the units with a 4++ inv save (star weaver and wraithknight) ? You mentioned breachers are normally better targeting other targets, but the same is true for crisis suits. The crisis suits are great against light vehicles but their efficiency takes a huge hit against T9+ targets (when they start wounding on 5+). I think at that toughness its Broadsides and Hammerheads that should be the choosen options to help out against those targets. Last oddity it that you said the broadsides are easy to position because they are small while hammerheads are hard to move, and while the size comparison is true its the base movement of 5" vs 10" and the fact both can't move through ruin walls that makes the hammerhead much more mobile. Overall I think to complete the analysis you should of at least included a second percentage in brackets next to the Hammerhead stat when firing at a Vehicle (the whole purpose of this analysis) as well against the Broadsides when they are stationary and another when they have missile drones.

@InvasiveWargaming

7 ай бұрын

Really good points. I did include devastating wounds on rail here, and also seeker missiles where they could be reliably shot as essentially as often as primary weapons (eg stormsurge). But yeah, the hammerhead should get a bit more of a nod

@fendelphi

5 ай бұрын

I agree. For 130 pts the Hammerhead has very high alpha potentiel right on turn 1, and the mobility and accuracy to be a threat. If you knock out an enemy vehicle right then and there, that is 130 pts well spent. Broadsides tend to rely a lot more on the deployment and even who gets the first turn. As soon as they move, they lose the benefit of the heavy Keyword, so they will be hitting on 4+, while the Hammerhead hits on 3+ while moving. It also has the ability to negate 1 bad roll per turn. And for damage. Assuming turn 1 damage potentiel, the Hammerhead sits between 11-26 damage with its Railgun and 2 Seeker missiles. A single Broadside's turn 1 damage potentiel is 6-21(Heavy Rail Rifle + 1 Seeker missile). The Railgun of the Hammerhead wounds on a 2+ against T7, T8, T9 and T10, while the Heavy Rail Rifle wounds on a 3+ against T7, T8, T9 and T10(most transport and support vehicles, as well as quite a few tanks and walkers). You would need 2 Broadsides to make them reliable at anti-tank, and then we are talking 180 pts in investment. The Broadside becomes overall slightly more reliable if the target has a good Invulnerable save, and is generally better at dealing with Elite infantry compared to the Hammerhead, but otherwise, the Hammerhead is a much better Tank-hunter.

Huh. Its really pleasing to me to see the broadside taking so many top slots

can you show us the equation your using?

Out of curiosity, I know it’s a tangent but does anyone run Farsight by himself?

@PackOfPureWin

7 ай бұрын

Yes. For just 90 points comong out of Rapid Ingress, he usually pays for himself and then some and opponents tend to overcommit to killing him afterwards.

@avozsaj

7 ай бұрын

Pantheon Studios Australia did a video or two about running him solo, you can check that out.

@InvasiveWargaming

7 ай бұрын

Really good resource that guy

Why no Gun Rig? S 20 AP -5 Dmg D6+6 with devastating wounds and twinlinked. Seems like woth at least a glance.

@fendelphi

5 ай бұрын

The issue with the Gunrig is the poor accuracy. It will only hit 1/3 of the time. If it does hit, though...

Nothing on the piranha? 55 points for high mobility, 7t, 7w nearly twice as many seeker missles per points as broadsides and their main gun while not a rail rifle has decent damage and ap.

CIB being the best weapon since 7th edition is actually annoying. I want weapon diversity, not one weapon to rule them all.