"Elim Garak, a plain simple tailor who absolutely was not a Cardassian spy." Best. Description. Ever.

@sayjinpat4life

4 жыл бұрын

I always saw him as a spy. His character would have been better.

@DrCrabnuts

3 жыл бұрын

Bashir: “What I want to know is, out of all the stories you told me which ones were true and which ones weren't?” Garak: “My dear doctor... they're all true.” Bashir: “Even the lies?” Garak: *“Especially the lies.”* The dynamic between Garak and Bashir is extremely well done, and is second only to the relationship between Quark and Odo.

@jaksida300

3 жыл бұрын

@@sayjinpat4life If he was a spy, why didn’t he work in a spy shop instead of a tailor’s 🤔🤔🤔

@elimgarak4667

2 жыл бұрын

It fits.

@bgcvetan

2 жыл бұрын

"was not a" could not have spelled it better, not past time.

Watching old episodes I noticed that Deanna Troi being mind raped happens too often. There was even an episode called "Violations" where a very similar scene to Nemesis happens.

@ericnoble5194

4 жыл бұрын

Nx57ytre Not to mention the episode “The Child”, where she’s raped by a cosmic being and gives birth to him.

@NitpickingNerd

4 жыл бұрын

Rick loved that kind of stuff

@Ac3OfWands

4 жыл бұрын

If you're ever inspired to rewatch Enterprise (which ... don't. I was, but am still stuck in s3 I got so bored) you'll notice that there are a significant number of episodes in which T'Pol is, if not outright assaulted, then still leered at, threatened and generally perved on by at least one male character (or an alien in a male body) - what a huge coincidence that Rick co-wrote episodes where that happens!

@arbjbornk

4 жыл бұрын

@@NitpickingNerd "The Child" was a script written for the 1970's Star Trek Phase II, which morphed into Star Trek The Motion Picture. In the original script, it was Ilia who was impregnated.

@robrobinson6338

4 жыл бұрын

@@ericnoble5194 This sounds like an Avengers storyline where the same thing happens to Captain (Ms.) Marvel. She berates them about it in Avengers Annual #10.

Just can't get over how Ira Steven Behr looks like a customisable player character in a video game.

@Jarsia

4 жыл бұрын

thats hilarious

@mmybickers

4 жыл бұрын

Played by a McElroy.

@ryanc5572

2 жыл бұрын

He looks like someone I'd make in Saints Row 2

Gene Rodenberry was not a saint but his constantly evolving attitude even into old age is truly heartwarming. Like my dad used to say, "I don't always get it right but I like to learn."

@epsilonalphaargo1948

3 жыл бұрын

We all make mistakes, but making mistakes is a part of life.

@woogywips

6 ай бұрын

Not living up to your ideals is kind of a defining feature of being human. I make no excuses for whatever he did wrong in his life, but how many better people have had far less positive impact on the world?

@GuineaPigEveryday

4 ай бұрын

I don't know I always got the impression that his refusal to change his ideas was what troubled the early series of TNG, and that he apparently constantly harangued the writers of those first two seasons, because of the principles that for instance the crew of the Enterprise could not be in conflict with each other. He was very protective of the series of course, but I can't say I think that justifies the way he got into a whole ego-trip about it, that it was solely his in every way, he seems to not have been a great dude when it comes to post-TOS stuff.

@werideatdusk

3 ай бұрын

It seems like he got worse in old age- in the TNG era his view of trek became more radical as he insisted there would be no disagreement, ever, between humans of the future... he was drinking heavily and openly sexist in his personal affairs as well as calling for more sexual content on TNG...

Of course Shran is great. Jeffrey Combs never fails to deliver. He was great as Weyoun and Brunt as well.

@digipeeper

4 жыл бұрын

ragingbombast besides Dr. Herbert West. Star Trek gave Combs a ongoing job and a new fan base. Shran is his best work and made him into a action star in sorts. Now if Enterprise had a 5th Season.Shran was to be a regular!!!

@Yora21

4 жыл бұрын

Just watched an episode of Babylon 5 in which he appears as a minor character, and it was still great.

@sevatarlives185

4 жыл бұрын

"Brunt, eff-shee-aigh." Weyoun is excellent, a perfect mix of obsequious and inhuman coldness but the petty bureaucratic superiority in Comb's performance as Brunt is just a joy to see every time he turns up.

@Thirdleg4sale

4 жыл бұрын

Jeffrey Combs in my opinion is the single best character actor to ever hit the tv screen.

@Conchobhar

3 жыл бұрын

FCA

It's a miracle star trek worked out as well as it did

I wonder how much of the Ferengi characters were based on shit Berman pulled.

@socialistether6788

4 жыл бұрын

PMSL, I can just imagine the writers cracking up on the inside gag.

To think about what was lost because of producers like Berman is astonishing

@user-lk7cv8vg7r

Жыл бұрын

Imagine if Garret Wang got the director role, moved forward with Star Trek and was front running Discovery, Picard, and all the new Trek stuff. I bet these shows would have been far more enriching than Kurtzman's Trek.

@heinrichwagner4739

Жыл бұрын

Ron Jones for instance. By far the best composer on TNG.

@TerrenceNowicki

7 ай бұрын

@@user-lk7cv8vg7r He certainly couldn't have been worse at it than Kurtzman is.

Ziyal was 15 years old. Berman would rather have Garak be in a romantic relationship with a teenager than Bashir.

@moonlight4665

4 жыл бұрын

Well, that adds several more layers of messed up

@KaputOtter

4 жыл бұрын

@Hans Hanzo Garak x Ziyal was implied to be uh, blossoming through Ziyal and Kira dialog, but it was never official. The episode where she dies, Garak seems broken up about it for about 2.2 seconds. And then nobody speaks of it ever again. It was a series of poor choices that felt like falling down stairs.

@simonfrederiksen104

4 жыл бұрын

@@moonlight4665 Considering she was the mixed race offspring of a female native, both dependant on the man, a high ranking official to provide the essentials, she, a former slave once destined to be worked to death - leaving her as a mere teen to bond with an exile several decades older than herself is almost romantic. It's all a matter of gradation. All that would have been needed to make Garak and Zyal the love story of the century is for the Breen, who held her captive, to be ravenous cannibals.

@simonfrederiksen104

4 жыл бұрын

@@KillahMate That sounds about right. It's all about projecting power, having control - I suspect Berman might have hated DS9 because Gul Dukat was so much like the ideal man he wanted to be.

@riftvallance2087

4 жыл бұрын

@@VuotoPneumaNN They make out before she leaves the station in call to arms , if I remember correctly. But you can certainly see how uncomfortable Robinson looks in every shot when hes around Ziyal. Good of an actor as he is there was no hiding that.

I view Voyager as the epitome of a missed opportunity. The "year of hell" 2 parter should have extended across the entire show. The ship should have been nearly unrecognizable when it returned to Earth. There should be issues with diminished personnel, incompatible tech resources, etc.

@gopireddevil

4 жыл бұрын

Battlestar Galactica nailed that aspect of being isolated in space with no resupply or reinforcement.

@Brendissimo1

4 жыл бұрын

Voyager could have been BSG. Imagine a universe where Ronald D. Moore stayed on Voyager's writing staff instead of leaving very early after "creative differences" and eventually became one of its lead writers.

@sethzwicker3631

4 жыл бұрын

@@gopireddevil Yes, that's what they could have gone for. And maybe some sort of factional distrust between the Maquis & Starfleet. They buttoned that up by the 3rd episode I think.

@SimianJack

4 жыл бұрын

All of this was intended for the series, and Berman has gone on record boasting about having stamped out that vision by the end of the pilot. He truly believes Trek fans are grateful for that. In the day, I was so happy with DS9 that the promise of Voyager had me high. I was truly stunned and alienated by the pilot...but just how much I didn't care whether a single one of these characters lived or died. With the ongoing problems that would quickly become evident, I came to hate Voyager with a passion. It was my lesson in the value of having the right person as showrunner. A few years ago I gave the entire series a rewatch and have softened towards it despite the flaws not having disappeared. I've always suspected that Paramount kept Berman precisely because of his aversion to risk. DS9 was not the hit they hoped it would be, and much of the fan base at the time was vocal about their dislike for all its departures from the mold. Voyager as conceived promised to be another bold step, and I'm sure many at Paramount were scared by that. Don't take chances with the cash cow...Berman was their guy.

@arbjbornk

4 жыл бұрын

@@rolandbaldwin I think the original plan was for Year of Hell was supposed to be a season long story line. TPTB would only approve a two part episode.

It’s kind of hard to square the fact that Star Trek had its best run while Berman was at the helm but that berman wasn’t responsible. It’s kind of like katzenberg for Disney fans.

I wonder if Jeri Ryan's contract for Picard actually has some provision that says "no skin-tight suit"

@grifonecoronato

4 жыл бұрын

I read somewhere that Jeri Ryan was crying with joy when she read the script, and Seven's "new voice". So I'm feeling optimistic, both in terms of character- and wardrobe choices!

@Brendissimo1

4 жыл бұрын

I would hope she doesn't need to make that explicit in this day and age, but reality keeps disappointing me, so IDK.

@RJLbwb

4 жыл бұрын

Damn, now I feel guilty of drooling over Ryan that she has passing out to look like that.

@lukebryde594

4 жыл бұрын

That one time travel episode when she was wearing just a regular uniform and she looked just as amazing. It just made me think why is she wearing the cat suit?

@Yora21

4 жыл бұрын

That suit was actually one of the thing that made me drop Voyager and Star Trek altogether. It's not that bad in itself, but it always reminded me that something was really not right.

Ira Stephen Behr, in the doc "What We Left Behind" at one point really expresses how he feels he let the LGBT community down. For people in my corner of said community, the T (I've got other letter, too, but the T is the big one), we will always have what Behr tried to do with Dax, and that oh-so-memed moment of the Klingon just accepting that Curzon is now Jadzia.

@dgcatanisiri

4 жыл бұрын

Dax is good for that - there’s also that moment when she is more surprised that one of Quark’s waiters is female than that they’re in love with him. I know the Trill fall into that awkward “discount queerness” category, but that’s at least in spite of Berman’s efforts to de-gay everything entirely.

@oof-wi7hp

4 жыл бұрын

@Hans Hanzo hell yeah! GARASHIR RIGHTS!

@parkerkrakowiak2990

4 жыл бұрын

Bashir and garak might not have been an official couple but at least we got Bashir and O'Brien

@rozalindachesebro

4 жыл бұрын

I came out as trans last year. One of my best friends immediately decided I needed to see DS9 *because* of Jadzia. The season one episode "Dax" is the one that really got me. "I tried on that ring after Curzon died.... It just slipped off my finger." 😓😢😭

@stunninginpurple

4 жыл бұрын

He seems like he regrets not even trying for Garak/Bashir... but then he and the others go and put Bashir and Ezri together in their fake pilot for season 8. It's like he wants to have his ally trophy but also be 'safe' and not go with where they should have gone. He should have done more, he knows he should have, and even when he has the chance to make steps toward doing more he just doesn't.

I feel this quote is apt here, "Local Man Ruins Everything"

I love how when he mentions that gay characters “don’t exist” there’s a big ol shot of Q

@dimsumboy22

3 жыл бұрын

Q wouldn’t be gay. Or anything.

@darkwolfe23

3 жыл бұрын

Q isnt gay there just like all living beings, inexplicably attracted to Patrick Stewart

@benwillems8584

2 жыл бұрын

Q is most likely omnisexual, as when he was depowered he could have chosen to be a bug or something, which could also include mating while he was conscious in that body Remember, the Q only look human because that is how he wants to be perceived at that time I would have loved a Q episode where they encounter him on a Klingon ship, prostetics and all.

@Garvey64LIVE64

2 жыл бұрын

It's not like dax or another female trill kissed on screen or anything. Wonder how that one got by him.

@kramermariav

24 күн бұрын

I mean..does Q have a gender at all?? He always appears a John de Lancie, but, like wouldn't we all

Garrett Wang should come back and direct an episode of _Discovery_ or _Picard_ to fix this injustice Berman gave him.

@celinak5062

4 жыл бұрын

+

@MarcusMIDI

4 жыл бұрын

Agreed!!

@bastardofreality5368

4 жыл бұрын

Or talk with Seth Macfarlane.

@illustriouschin

4 жыл бұрын

ST Picard should have been ST Hugh with the Borg and Romulans going on adventures.

@Wannagobackto1980

4 жыл бұрын

Well he already has the last name going for him so yeah...... Sure!!

I have so much respect for Ira, the absolute resolve and conviction is so inspiring

"Risk is our business" -- James T. Kirk Amazing work.

While not as important an issue, he also fired composer Ron Jones for writing music that was "too good". So, for about 13 years, all Star Trek TV music was that bland wallpaper of generic chords. I know it's not as bad as his mysogeny, homophobia, etc. Just one more thing I hate about him.

@lkeke35

4 жыл бұрын

And I knew at the time there was a reason I was so f*cking exasperated with these shows. I could tell they were holding back on the stories but had no idea why. After the first couple of seasons I hated Voyager completely, although I liked DS9 just fine. I hated most ofthe movies too, which also held back on the story.

@johnhoppin7928

4 жыл бұрын

I actually don't have an issue with that creative choice. Minimalistic music certainly has its places, and I feel Star Trek is one of them; it really helps convey a certain vibe of thoughtfulness and sparseness.

@qwellen7521

4 жыл бұрын

You just know that the enterprise's theme was Berman's idea

@florianhoppe4159

4 жыл бұрын

Word. I don't have hard feeling on the other shows, but Voyager will be always the Worst for me, because of a single eisode in the last season, that I really really hate: Friendship One, which imo. is the worst episode ever.

@voltronik9141

4 жыл бұрын

@@florianhoppe4159 Oh that wasn't good. I'd also add Threshold, when Janeway and Paris evolved

27:14 Oh Wang... It wasn't a missed opportunity. It was a stolen opportunity.

@oof-wi7hp

4 жыл бұрын

EXACTLY

There is a huge part of me that feels dreadful, knowing that for my viewing pleasure and fandom and finding solace in Star Trek when the bullies got too much at school - the very people who gave me a safe haven and taught me how to be the best me I can be, had to suffer so dreadfully for their art. In a funny way, it makes me feel even more like the cast are total heroes for dealing with all that, in order to bring us trek.

@quadnine7814

Жыл бұрын

What you love about Trek are likely to be mostly the things the writers, cast, and crew fought for.

I love the Star Trek quote screens, out of context I could have easily have mistaken them for some thing official like a blue-ray or dvd extra documentary.

@oof-wi7hp

4 жыл бұрын

they are SO good right!?

Roddenberry saying “I came to the conclusion I was wrong” shows a level of humility, understanding and open mindedness Star Trek has been missing for so long.

@jakekaye817

4 жыл бұрын

Roddenberry at least could admit to some of his mistakes. I'm not sure Berman ever has.

@TerrenceNowicki

7 ай бұрын

It's still missing, frankly. Any support for representation from Kurtzman is suspect because he's one of the biggest hacks in Hollywood whose decision-making seems motivated more by cynical optics and marketing than good ideas or genuine belief in anything. It's no coincidence that the best new material generally seems to be whatever he has the least to do with, and whenever something he let someone else handle is more successful than projects in which he was more hands-on, he displays the same petty, Berman-like attitude when asked about it (for example: his continuing dedication to a Section 31 movie nobody wants while constantly brushing off questions about letting Terry Matalas have that Legacy concept of his which excites even the cold, dead hearts of Mike and Rich from Red Letter Media).

God all of that and you didn't even get to how he treated Gates McFadden.

@oof-wi7hp

4 жыл бұрын

how?

@MrCaerbannog

4 жыл бұрын

It was wasn't Berman who mistreated McFadden, it was TNG's original showrunner, Maurice Hurley. Not that it would surprise me if Berman was a dick to her as well, but Hurley was the one who replaced Crusher with Pulaski for the second season.

@NitpickingNerd

4 жыл бұрын

Also Terri who played Jadzia told some interesting things about him

hell, even married with children had some gay characters in the early 90s! i had heard berman made terrible story decisions but i didn't realize the extent of his terribleness.

Can I just say I love how you use Q's horrific post apocalyptic court when talking about the worst aspects of Berman's views

The pause in the line "two individual...cups" matching up with Seven's speaking style is an entertaining uncoincidence.

I just started watching Enterprise and I laughed out loud at the shower gel scene. It's so ridiculous.

I've heard several people mention Rick Berman in a bad light or reference him negatively over the years. However, this is the first break down of how awful things could be working under him. Yikes. Good video.

The quotes on the interface screens is brilliant. To say nothing of how damn good the video is.

That last season of Enterprise was when it really got good and it was obvious that the story arc was going to be way longer and it was cut short at the end. My mom and I would watch it together and we just always thought it had finally hit its groove and had just taken longer for some reason - I had no idea it was because of this guy.

In the 80s and 90s, Berman thought he was in line with the liberally-conservative times. That's debatable, of course, but by the 2000s he was definitely behind the times and he completely failed to grasp that.

@HerrSpuzzmacher

3 жыл бұрын

By 1992 there was no socially conservative facade to hide behind. He was behind the times from the beginning.

@FredrickTesla

3 жыл бұрын

@@HerrSpuzzmacher you guys have no idea what it was like in red states, or basically any town with less than 5000 people in it. I knew people who stopped letting their kids play with other people's kids when they found out their parents watched Ellen after she had come out. And these weren't outlier religious nutjobs, they were the social backbone of the town and they talked. These people were real estate agents, teachers, and doctors. People forget that the internet wasn't common in that time. You've Got Mail bombed in most interior states due to people not understanding the premise. People forget states like Arkansas, Kansas, Oklahoma, were still banning rock stars from performing due to 'satanic imagery and themes' long after TNG was over. There was plenty of television markets where conservativism was still king, and all it would have taken was a few churches talking to each other to ruin TNGs ratings in like 1/2 the country.

@jasonfenton8250

2 жыл бұрын

@@FredrickTesla Those attitudes are still around. Less than five years ago I was living in small town America and my boss started going on a rant about how "they" are trying to destroy European cultures with immigration. I doubt closeted white nationalists would be fans of gay people on Star Trek.

Scathing expose on Berman and his poor treatment of the franchise. Damn this went IN.

"Criminally underrated Voyager" might just be the actual biggest if not the only hot take you dropped on unsuspecting viewers. xD

@nopejoeandangie

4 жыл бұрын

@@dwc1964 when you start dating the head producer Branan Braga lots of great things can happen for your character!

@ACETYGRA

4 жыл бұрын

@@filrut I enjoyed Voyager but on the other hand there were times it felt like "Diet TNG"

I had to keep pausing the video and getting up to pace because of how validating this video is about all of my feelings about certain aspects of Trek as a series that I've never been able to put into words; this was a masterpiece, and I thank you for it. I love the franchise so dearly, and this was so, so good and important.

@jamesdavis1201

2 жыл бұрын

AGREED!!!

"The less Berman, the better it is." In case anyone wants to know why DS9 is the best of Star Trek.

@ladytr0n

2 жыл бұрын

I just rewatched DS9 (the last time I saw it about 10 years ago in my 20s) and realized for the first time how the female characters, especially Jadzia, have been treated in a super sexist and misogynistic way. Really broke my heart.

@akmi1931

2 жыл бұрын

I wouldn’t say best but definitely 2nd and the one I’d binge watch again given the chance

@Claramata

2 жыл бұрын

Binging DS9 in 2022 I definitely think it holds up the best out of all the 90s trek shows. Probably because it plays with serialization

@optillian4182

Жыл бұрын

@@Claramata I've started watching it recently and I'm now at the 3rd season. It's pretty good.

@persononinternet2

7 ай бұрын

I’m watching DS9 for the first time, the premise is amazing but the writing is so cringe. Series-long story arcs are a welcome change from TNG, but there’s way too much inconsistency in characters, and unbelievable plot lines. It also feels like everything is so spelled out for the audience all the time, like there’s no subtlety in anything. I don’t wanna be a hater, I’m genuinely puzzled at how people can like it as much as, or even better than, TNG. Oh ya, and Bermans’s a total dickhead.

What stuck out the most about Berman's run as producer was how the Prime Directive was handled. Under Gene it was used to prevent interference in the cultural development of alien societies; but Berman only saw it as _"do we save these people from a preventable death or not?"_ and state how wise and advance the Federation was for letting people suffer and die pointlessly. It really comes off as an insane case of the haves and have not's if you think about it. _"They don't have warp tech? They let them die! Good for us!"_

@celinak5062

4 жыл бұрын

+

@MsSissiePooh

2 жыл бұрын

That’s why the ENT episode, “Dear Doctor”, pisses me off so much, because the series was set in a time before the Prime Directive even existed, and an alien society that was in danger of dying out could have been saved from a preventable death, but it didn’t happen.

@aolson1111

Жыл бұрын

Uh, the prime directive is inherently about letting people suffer and die pointlessly. The federation can cure any disease and eliminate want, but they refuse to do it. There are probably trillions of deaths per hour in the galaxy that the federation could prevent, but they don't. Gene is also the guy who though it would be a good idea to allow captains to unilaterally genocide entire planets, which is very cool and totally not insane.

@michaelplunkett8059

7 ай бұрын

Like the UN.

Berman had us all thinking that it was Terry Ferrell's fault that she left at the end of the 6th season and Jadzia Dax didn't appear in the series finale montage. Poor Worf totally forgot his wife.

@IvoJim

2 жыл бұрын

I’m glad I wasn’t the only one offended by that travesty lol. Ezri could never replace Jadzia in general, but it’s COMPLETELY ridiculous that Worf’s fond memories of DS9 are of Ezri and not the love of his life.

@katmatally

2 жыл бұрын

I really hated that they didn't include Jadzia in the final montage. She was so important to us and to Worf!

Sela's story gets a pretty good conclusion in Star Trek: Online of all places. Denise Crosby did the voice acting for Sela and Tasha and it also gave a tiny bit of closure to Tasha and Castillo.

@madelinevandongen1192

4 жыл бұрын

I believe they also had Garrett Wang return as *Captain* Harry Kim - he finally got some promotions.

@shoesncheese

4 жыл бұрын

@@madelinevandongen1192 they did! Captain. He was better written in the game than on the show.

@ET-gh4qv

4 жыл бұрын

Not to mention the amount of care, canon lore *and* new material and outright love the devs poured into the Romulans was just amazing. And pulling directly from Diane Duane's classic 'Rihannsu' books? Awesome.

When it comes to female actors in skin tight outfits: The female characters in Babylon 5 aired at the same time did not, and they were mostly much more popular than the ST actresses in skin tight clothes.

@marlonbryanmunoznunez3179

4 жыл бұрын

So True. And not only that, clothes that make sense for their characters: Ivanova in a military uniform that made sense and reflected the traditionalism of the institution, Winters dressed with that Gestapo like 40's vibe or Delenn in stately robes reflecting her "Crystal spires and togas" fictional culture. What a remarkable series Babylon 5 was!

@tankermottind

4 жыл бұрын

@@dwc1964 I found speeches like that one to be just about the weakest part of B5. JMS' dialogue tended towards the stilted, with people talking at each other rather than to each other, and the speech scenes in that episode and the one where Ivanova fought the Omega-X ships brought out the worst in his writing.

@ET-gh4qv

4 жыл бұрын

@@marlonbryanmunoznunez3179 And while Trek *repeatedly* kept dodging and shying away from any actual LGBT representation except in the most torturous context, Susan Ivonova could look right at Delenn and say 'I think I loved Talia' in "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" with no ambiguity over what kind of 'love' she was talking about. That scene is *still* electrifying, and one of the most memorable (to me, anyway).

@jasonfenton8250

2 жыл бұрын

@@tankermottind JMS really shows the duality of show writing. His writing for long term arcs and plot stuff is great but his dialogue is consistently robotic. Attempts at humor in B5 were especially cringeworthy, I say this as someone who loves B5.

I remember reading an interview Berman gave regarding his time on Trek. He "lamented" the fact that there were no gay characters featured during his tenure. Reading that, whilst knowing the decisions he made during that time, made me want to vomit. I could feel the lack of genuine remorse seeping off the page. It's a shame that because of him Star Trek was behind the times in term of LGBT representation.

@KaputOtter

4 жыл бұрын

@@nonyabidness8676 I've seen more than a few people defend the same tired old, "it was a different time" excuse too. That's what I like best about this video, I appreciate the highlight on other instances of television LGBT writing. Star Trek didn't have LGBT because of "the times", it simply didn't have it because Berman was too much of a coward. "Lamented" my bippy.

Jeffrey Combs is fantastic in every thing. campy serious funny just nails it every time for me. love thst guy. seen all his movies reanimator to enterprise.

Sometimes I lie awake and think about the beautiful relationship Garak and Bashir that could have been. I might write some fanfiction, I've never done that before...

GOOD DAMN! I knew Berman was a hack but I had no idea he was a monster!

@Claramata

4 жыл бұрын

I had heard of his treatment of the female cast members. I want to say that Kate Mulgrew was told by Berman to wear a padded bra and she told him to fuck off essentially. Like Mulgrew was shitty on the set sometimes but in that case she was 1000% correct

@danielmclellan1522

3 жыл бұрын

@@Claramata If I remember correctly, she got the role partly because Genevieve Bujold had been considered for Janeway, but Bujold walked after "one of the producers" insisted she pad her bra.

"Shran is the best" -- 100% agree :-)

Good video. I'd be interested in a critique of J. J. Trek. Abrams has most of Berman's problems (plus some extra problems he picked up as a protégé of Michael Bay). The main difference is that, under Berman, there were people like Piller, Behr, Moore, and others to challenge Berman's nonsense, while Abrams was unchallenged. I'm not familiar with Discovery but, with Picard, it seems that fellow Michael Bay protégé Robert Kurtzman, like Berman before him, has had his influence diluted with a much broader team of writers and producers including Patrick Stewart, Michael Chabon, and Rod Roddenberry.

@det.bullock4461

4 жыл бұрын

Discovery has clearly been compromised by the original showrunner abandoning it at more or less half the first season: first half is interesting ans sets up a few thought provoking stuff about PTSD, then in the second half everything was due to evil doppelgangers and manchurian agents. The second season apart from a couple of largely self-contained episodes is mostly Terminator-style time travel nonsense without really a point. The protagonist background of a human adopted by Vulcans is explored a bit beyond cheap family drama only in the first season. It suffers from Kurtzman's MO of using science fiction as a bag of clichés rather than a genre with something to say which is so incredibly disappointing because the cast and the character concepts are great but they don't really do much with them or at least not as much as they could. PS: also there is this tendency to create 9/11 terrorist analogues that for some reason have better weapons than the US analogues, how in all the circles of hell did a fragmented feudal society like the Klingons manage to out-fleet the Federation this badly? Even accounting for the Feds being pacifists they surely have the industrial capacity to churn out enough Constitution class ships to at least avoid being steamrolled that badly, after all the better physical prowess of a klingon means nothing in deep space combat and the Feds should have better tech since they don't treat their scientists like dirt.

@luska5522

4 жыл бұрын

@@det.bullock4461 Klingons have superior military tecnólogy against the Starfleet exploration vessels.

@edwardwood6532

4 жыл бұрын

@@Pixxeria I am still concerned that Secret Hideout has some control, and secret hidout means Kurtzman influence.

@CaptainPikeachu

4 жыл бұрын

Who's Robert Kurtzman? You mean Alex Kurtzman? The person who took over Star Trek and steadying the sails after Fuller left behind a broken trail that he had to salvage? The same Alex Kurtzman who is pushing forward a safe environment for his cast and crew to work in after abuses from the people Fuller left in charge? Not to mention Kurtzman actually facilitating and hiring groups of diverse writers, directors, producers, and crew members? Kurtzman's "influence" didn't dilute, HE was the one doing the hiring given the contracts put HIM in charge. If anything, people should be thanking him for keeping modern Trek alive and steady through all the changes.

@ShadowMuppetX

4 жыл бұрын

@@CaptainPikeachu I love all of that about him. I just wish the end product wasn't so terrible.

I've noticed that most of the haters of the latest treks love the Berman version

You missed a major early landmark gay TV character - Jodie Dallas on the comedy "Soap" (1977-81). Although not well known today, the show at the time was an extremely popular cutting edge parody of daytime soap operas. Billy Crystal played the openly gay character who, throughout the series, dated various closeted male characters. It might also be argued that Crystal's career was launched by his portrayal in the show, an amazing fact considering the homophobic climate of the 70's and early 80's.

@luckycharms5406

4 жыл бұрын

Yes! That show was pretty funny!

I have watched most of TNG with my 10 year old daughter. She has called sexist bullshit on the show numerous times.

@Seal0626

3 жыл бұрын

Good for her.

Rick Berman: "That looks like something from a furniture store." Writers: "Ok boomer"

@ashknoecklein

4 жыл бұрын

The bridge is pretty cozy I gotta say

@snowblood74

4 жыл бұрын

I've seen a whole picture gallery of every day objects (can opener, shampoo bottle, electric razor...) reimagined as space ships and they looked badass. Don't see why that should be a problem xD

I wish you'd addressed the absolute shitshow that was the entirety of Chakotay's character because it repulses me how white people get away with writing the most disgusting things possible with Native American characters and it should be common knowledge, I believe. But overall, CHRIST this was cathartic

@ericnoble5194

4 жыл бұрын

Jo Geller It shouldn’t be surprising, seeing as the creative team of Voyager got their input on Chakotay from a white guy pretending to be a Native American.

@jogeller5731

4 жыл бұрын

@@ericnoble5194 The worst part is that 'Highwater' had already been exposed as a fraud by the time of Voyager - and yet Berman still hired him!!!

@wolfgang7850

4 жыл бұрын

Wasn't there a scene in the first two episodes where Chakotay and what's his name are trapped in a cave, and the other guy says something like "Cant you turn into an eagle and fly us out of here?"

@Ser_Salty

3 жыл бұрын

Let's just pretend that native american culture was disrupted in World War 3 and most the records kept of their culture were terribly inaccurate 21st century and earlier accounts. Not as a way to get Berman out of hot water, but as a way to not hate undisputed hunk and good boy Chakotay for it.

THANK YOU! I have been waiting DECADES for someone to break down all the behind-the-scenes douchbaggery of Berman! Your video was thorough and thoroughly frustrating!

I didn't know about Kim almost getting written out. The stories of the retool I read always started with either "Kes was feeling stale" or "Jennifer Lien auditioned while she was nursing but had weaned her baby by the time shooting started and Berman seemed to feel cheated by that." I do know that Troi was almost written out after the first season of TNG because the writers didn't know what to do with her as a psychiatrist in a world where Roddenberry was adamant that people are too perfect to need therapy, but after Crosby quit and McFadden was fired they realized that it was very bad optics for the show to remove or replace all three of its leading women from the first season to the second. Also woah, Keating wanted Reed to be gay? I thought I heard that the writers were trying to suggest it and Keating hit the ceiling about it. I also heard that they started out developing a friendship between Reed and Mayweather that they completely dropped because "someone complained about having to work with a black man". Has someone been feeding me a Dominic Keating smear campaign?

"... a four-breasted, oversexed hermaphrodite..." That sound like something straight out of the Mick Rory/Rebecca Silver play-book.

@subotaur5019

4 жыл бұрын

"Three was plenty"

@bettyblue1986

4 жыл бұрын

Don't you be comparing Rick Berman to critically acclaimed romance novelist Rebecca Silver.

I went on the Trek Cruise this past March and got to hang out with Garrett Wang some. He is a riot. It really is a shame Harry Kim didn't get better exposure. And a promotion.

It's funny that Berman was against taking risks when a line from one of the Star Trek movies he produced is, "Risk is part of the game if you want to sit in that chair." (Though with Ronald D. Moore and Brannon Braga having writing credits, Berman didn't write that line, but he signed off on it)

I just want 60s swinging gay space communist Star Trek back ...

@alanasmith9444

4 жыл бұрын

Something something Iain M Banks' Culture series.

@TheRunningLeopard

4 жыл бұрын

Hell yeah

@celinak5062

4 жыл бұрын

Electric swing and solarpunk

@kazmark_gl8652

4 жыл бұрын

Having watched the first episode of Picard. nothing would please me more than to see my beloved gay space communist star trek again.

@nonsensepoem

4 жыл бұрын

@@alanasmith9444 If for no other reason, do it for the ship names.

Also the 70's sitcom Soap had a main character in almost every episode who was openly gay.

Damn. I grew up my whole life watching and loving star trek while also being told that homosexuality was a sin. Maybe if I had been able to see star trek as it should have been, I would've figured out I was gay before my 20s.

@Krystalmyth

4 жыл бұрын

Hence the intent behind the censorship. It turns these people on to know they can control children sexually. Its their fetish.

I've never watched Star Trek except Voyager in passing as a kid. But watching this documentary made me wanna check out all the good Star Trek incarnations. Very well done. I wholeheartedly enjoyed watching this.

@interdimensionalsteve8172

3 жыл бұрын

Next Gen is on Netflix! Go, watch :)

Now that i understand the 'contributions' Berman has made to Star trek, it definitely explains why enterprise turned out the way it did. I mean, Archer becomes a good captain as the series progressess but you'd think from the start, he would at the bare minimum, be able to put aside his grudge against the vulcans and not require such an obvious character arc to begin to at least tolerate Tpo. Its hard to believe that he was chosen to command the ship out of anything but nepotism since its hard to believe that out of all the humans on earth he was chosen to command such an amazing piece of technology. It contributes to this weird feeling of enterprise having been Americanized, what with the country music intro and the way that the way the federation is portrayed its as if it consists soley of America as apposed to other countries.

I have to admit I'd always blamed Farrell wanting to do Becker for Dax not being in the last season and now I feel bad for never looking into it. And I hate what was going on during those years of Next Gen, but I'm glad I know now. Great video.

As someone who's only watched the series when they came out, this has been very enlighting. Thanks.

Rick Berman sounds a lot like the Point-Haired Boss from Dilbert.

@lewisfraser4153

3 жыл бұрын

I was more reminded of the boss from Office Space. Obstructive to the point where you want to beat his mullet off.

I heard about his mistreatment of Terry Farrell but apparently Berman was obnoxious across the board One of my few problems with What We Left Behind is acting like her leaving was just a contract dispute, maybe they had to shut up about Berman to get him to appear and to keep the peace with Paramount

@michaelplunkett8059

7 ай бұрын

She should have sent him the tackiest cheap fake flowers from Kmart with the Variety headline of her Becker casting.

To make the case about not showing gay characters in Star Trek even worse: in Babylon 5 "Divided Loyalties" in 1995 ( granted 4 years later) one of the main castmembers was revealed to be Bi-sexual (maybe even homoxexual but that can't be confirmed). And to add the show acknowledged same-sex-marriages exists in its time. (To be fair they weren't allowed a transgender main character being transgender)

Voyager is criminally underrated

despite knowing about most of this already, its still so infuriating and depressing to see it laid out at once. i hadnt heard about "blood and fire" and it doubly pisses me off because of how important and impactful that episode couldve been, but instead we didnt get a hiv allegory until "stigma" in friiggin 2003

Yeah ... I couldn't articulate at the time, but looking back, I remember noticing that the franchise had gotten progressively more "Cheesecake" by the time Enterprise rolled around.

I really appreciated this video. Every time you talk about Star Trek I can hear your passion and affection for the property. As always, thank you for the great video.

Absolutely love your analysis! I haven't even heard some of these damning quotes, though as a huge Niner and Terry stan, that part of the story was familiar. The one thing I'd argue really is how much "Rejoined" should count as valid LGBT+ representation. I get that they did try to push a little of "oh well Torias and Nilani were a man and woman in love!" but the episode explicitly said Jadzia and Lenara were also in love as themselves; not just their past lives. You definitely misspoke in saying that was the only reason Jadzia was in love with a woman (especially since there are several other episodes we see her showing attraction to women!) I think it also deserved mention that "Rejoined" featured Trek's first gay kiss, and it was done truly beautifully. The cast and crew behind that episode did a really good job, and while it wasn't everything I could've hoped for, I think it deserves more credit than you mentioned here. Of course, worth clarifying that everything good about "Rejoined", like most wonderful about DS9 and Trek in general in the Berman era - the greatness was in SPITE of him, not because of him!

Flash forward to the end of Picard Season 1 and they get to hint that Seven is also Bisexual, a big middle finger to Berman.

When others left as co-producers mid-6th season, Voyager lost continuity and canon. Fans knew it was Berman & despised him at the time. Fans also had other theories with regard to what happened with cast 3/4 cast shuffle and why Chakotay & Seven abruptly became a thing, pissing off every other fan relationship contingent.

Garak and Jadzia are two of my favorite star trek characters. Its sad they didn't get more shine.

@luckycharms5406

4 жыл бұрын

YES!

@MsSissiePooh

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed…

Huh. So it was Berman who added the T&A. I noticed it at the time and was really annoyed. Seven was an AMAZING character played to perfection. She didn't need a catsuit to get you to pay attention. Ryan's performance did that all on its own. And I feel T'Pol was one of the very best Vulcan characters and using her for sexual titillation was insulting.

To boldly go where noone has gone before...except where Berman did not want them to go.

RIP to Roddenberry, such a wonderful mind.

Deep space 9 vid when?

this is one of the few videos on KZread I can’t stop talking about & sharing to every trek fan I know

the themed quote frames are a nice touch

I'm reminded of how in Babylon 5 they also wanted two women be in a relationship but had to settle with hinting at it instead. While we're nowhere near where we need to be, we have made some progress.

Thank goodness for Behr. DS9 is my favorite series.

Trek fans pissed at Discovery because of “diversity” forget that Gene Roddenberry was the original Hollywood Social Justice Warrior.

There was a big feeling at the time that the Rejoined episode of DS9 was an attempt to keep up with LGBT representation in Babylon 5, especially Ivanova and Talia's relationship. And while B5 was being daring for the time, the elements they toned down (Delenn was originally going to be male-presenting and transition to female-presenting in the Chrysalis at the end of series 1), and the general lack of gay characters outside of the Ivanova/Talia subplot (and how that ended) show how far TV has come in 25 years.

I feel so stupid. For so long I though Discovery and Picard were just stupidly rushed and overly expressive but come to think of it they are pretty good. And I honestly had no idea about why Terry Farrel left the show. Fuck Berman, honestly. Star Trek could have been so much better, I'm amazed so much of it still came through despite of him.

Roddenberry had been a figurehead since 1980 when he became a consultant. Yes, he had some more clout on TNG, but no one at Paramount saw him as more than a Head Writer, definitely not a showrunner.

I'm so happy that Berman is out of the picture.

he also hated the original series and it's cast. every time they were brought back they were always written as out of touch has-beens with the new crew acting as the more competent ones.

@MsSissiePooh

2 жыл бұрын

Rick Berman is the embodiment of the phrase, “this is why we can’t have nice things”.

Berman whining about how DS9 was just sooooo difficult because of the serialized nature, when he had nothing to do with it, was peak bullshit for me.

Absolutely phenomenal work! And has also finally cleared up for me why so many fans of Berman-era Trek (I do NOT refer, here, to ALL fans of Berman-era Trek, of which I must count myself a number) are so aggravated in their dislike of new-era Trek movies and shows. It seems we're just finally getting what Gene wanted to give us all along! Thank you for this!

Berman had defenders? I remember being on the Usenet newsgroups when DS9 was on, and everyone hated Berman and Braga. Contrast this with Ronald Moore, who was on DS9 at the time. Many wanted him to work on Voyager to improve the show from just mediocre. You will probably recognize the name Ronald Moore - he would go on to become the showrunner for Battlestar Galactica.

@dataportdoll

4 жыл бұрын

I dunno about the past, but these days he definitely does. I mean look at chuds like Lore Reloaded who lump Roddenberry and Berman'[s time together. NO ideological differences there!

Re-watching Enterprise recently (for the first time since I first saw it) and you can tell every. single. episode. Rick co-wrote even without looking at the writing credit. They all feature at least one man (or alien inhabiting a man's body) being a disgusting creep towards T'Pol! The man isn't even a screenwriter for goodness sake - I'm sure that same behind the scenes book (50 Year Mission, highly recommend) had someone involved in the show complaining about that very fact, and watching the episodes he "contributed" to in Enterprise I can see why! His misogyny infects every story he writes.

Thankfully this video still lives. Thank you for creating it and to those that keep it alive by sharing on all the platforms.

I would like to point out that Roseanne had several gay characters as well. I don't know what year it was running and it has been too long for me to remember how well it was handled, but I remember it being a thing.

More reason for having a diverse writing room...and production team. This isn't about affirmative action or some other "SJW" initiative...this is about an untapped wealth of story telling. It's so arrogant to think in this vast universe we assume alien life is exactly what a white cis Male might think they are. Thank u for this history RC...I would hope to see better from this growing ST Universe on CBS.

@CaptainPikeachu

4 жыл бұрын

This is actually one of the reasons why the Short Treks series is actually one of my most favorite things of the new Trek era content. Sometimes on a show, it may be hard to step out and do something new and different and weird, but with the Short Treks stories, they can try and experiment with new and different kinds of stories and different ways of how to tell that story, not to mention training a new group of writers and directors and crew members. It's a great space for younger storytellers or new storytellers to cut their teeth and try their ideas, much in the same way 80s/90s Trek had their open submissions that brought in the new talent into Trek.

YES season 4 of Enterprise is the best one, it was sad it didn't get more seasons considering how good it got at the end.

Your rundown of gay characters on TV prior to TNG overlooks one very important one. Soap's Jody Dallas, played by Billy Crystal, was the first gay main character on a prime time TV show in 1978. True, many have expressed issues with how the the character was portrayed as the series progressed, but his inclusion was a breakthrough that , predictably, cost the show advertiser support and caused some affiliates to refuse to carry the show before they'd even seen an episode.

Watching this (during my first whole DS9 run), makes me want to watch the Orville again.

I'm not a Star Trek fan, so this is all news to my ears. stopped to say: wtf with the catsuit?

I remember seeing Roddenberry and, Micheal Dorn (dressed as worf) and some Irish actor (not Sean Meany) singing an Irish drinking song on set. Truely, the best of times.

@masere

2 жыл бұрын

It's the Irish guy from Up The Long Ladder. Picard joins in singing at the end. It's on the outtakes on KZread.