"carefree wandering," or xiaoyao 逍遥 as we say in chinese. thanks for sharing this stimulating discussion!

@professorrshaldjianmorriso1474

Жыл бұрын

also: interesting point around the 1:02:00 mark about Heidegger's philosophy-of-being being a simulated system, a mere language game, a matrix, which does not represent or describe the actual world/actual being. I would respond by noting that for Heidegger language itself "is the house of being. In its home human beings dwell. Those who think and those who create with words are the guardians of this home." Hence, his philosophy cannot be dismissed as mere simulation, since it deals directly with the house/dwelling of being itself.

@JJONNYREPP

Жыл бұрын

Baudrillard on Simulacra and Simulation | with Georg Moeller of Carefree Wandering 1542pm 2.4.23 this simulated discourse - as most media manipulated events seem to be.... the childish must remain in control it would seem... i am very much bored of this dead end. and i think the theory was created to instigate such an impasse... i used to own the book this chat is based upon as i did various other scholastic discourse... this also refers to the erasing of the immediacy of the moment so a new environment can claim to be instigating said moment, cultivating a "lesson" - thus validating it's own existence. as simple folk do with cameras or video creation or when looking in a mirror... and these simple processes are used, also, by society to have you justify your existence though not everyone wants to be photographed or videoed. though they exist, right?

What a great and thought provoking discussion. I think a big part of depression wave and alienation today is trying to engage or to find "authentic" communication or authentic connections and bonds, and contanty finding gaps within the virtual. Thus the constant overdrive for communication and perfromance is at an all time high since authenticity is limited. But as you point out at the end Johannes the "real' puts a limit on it. I would further add that this is a Lacanian "Real" contrasted to ideaology fo self-identification of the virtual (that there is no original) and that can also be termed as the social or sociality , which when it rears its head is almost nightmarish when you take into account the dystopian aspects of virtual existence, such as the continuity of work and free time taking the form of the virtual profile as to present a spotless, non-problematic "perfect employable" self that can be hired in the workplace. These polarities are worth exploring in more detail and I think alienation in that respect is not an outdated sociological concept.

In Analects 2:12, Confucius says, "The gentleman (noble man, ideal man) is not an instrument (or tool... or machine)."

The Borges story in question is called "On Exactitude in Science" and it's a very compact one, quite brilliant.

@diegocolomes

Жыл бұрын

More exactly: "On the rigor of science".👍

@maxnadeau759

8 ай бұрын

Thanks for revealing this! Super interesting to mull over

Once again, thank you good sir, for the courage to think out loud in dialogue. Socratic in its best sense. Great guest. Cheers to you both!!

The human mind, as a world itself, does not represent the world, which is actually just an environment. It's actually so, that the environment becomes the shared world as the representation of our minds as worlds. Of course this leads to the kind of symbiosis, where is difficult to show or name which was what first but that isn't a very interesting philosophical problem, and it presupposes a pure mind-world or either a pure environment and some mysterious first move from the one side or the other which all leads to the metaphysics of the worst kind.

The initial quote from Ecclesiastes is not from Borges! It's not even from Ecclesiastes! It's a fake quote that Baudrillard ironically attributed to Ecclesiastes. You were duped by the simulation! The Borges story he then goes on to talk about is Del rigor en la ciencia.

I just had a thought. Is not the way GPT derive meaning in words Heideggerian in a way? In the language-model words or tokens (parts of word) are assigned there meaning only from there positional relation to every other word in a fictitious high-dimensional (I think slight more than 6000 dimensions) universe. E.g. male, king, emperor, bull might have a similar position in one of the universe dimensions, mening that the words have a correlation in that dimension, we might interpret this to mean that they are all male (the actual model of course don't have meanings attached to the dimensions, they are just correlations in one dimension). But for the model there is no male or meaning, only the positional similarity in one particular dimension. The words don't have any mening in themselves they only get their meaning through their relation to every other word in the universe. Thanks for an interesting conversation as always.

I'm in agreement with your guest. Baudrillard's exposition of the hyperreal is not something to be feared. It is something to be recognized and understood; a mediation of experience, an additional layer of Dasein with all of its own problematics and complexities. Authenticity in such a modality is more orientation than reality, channeling Gadamer, one might say... hermeneutical. Fantastic discussion. Thank you for sharing.

I like the term "overcoded" if I think of the map and the territory.

@jordanaugust4329

9 ай бұрын

DnG explicitly talk about that term in AO. The overcoding of flows

27:57 on the rice futures market being a simulacrum, I think an even better example would be Tesla stock, where there is essentially no possibility of getting a majority share or earning dividends (the utility or use values of the stock are therefore 'virtual') yet people still treat Tesla stock as though it has real value (which of course MAKES it have real value) Of course, the stock price is influenced by the sales of Tesla cars, (the original sign perhaps) but again it is up to debate whether the material production or second order observation of Tesla itself is the key element in "making value" here

Johannes is truly a hero

Fantastisch! (btw the drama queen's name is pronounced "Bodriyar", the two ll's become a y)

Surely a large amount of the function of the price of rice futures would be determined by the expected rice supply and demand which would be dependent on real parameters such as weather, amount of rice planted, past rice demand and so on. A proportion would be purely virtual and based on the biases of traders but not the whole thing. Or have i entirely misunderstood the point?

Many of the aporias alluded to and promoted by Baudrillard regarding language can be illuminated by a deep understanding of Wittgenstein ‘ tractates and philosophical investigations these two read as one philosophical dialectical text.

what is a profile it's certainly nothing more than some assignments of linguistic structures and signs structure to validate or represent a human soul. so it's not something out of this world it's just formal assignments which can get back to it's natural essence eventually . so what we are getting afraid of more is about loosing the trail of the ethical truth eventually which I think we can't the virtual is self explanatory and will be overshadowed by the existential truth .

Georg has quite a funny listening face

Dear friends let's bring the eastern to the a.i.Like zen koan training for machines.No human has self combusted from a koan ever.

Indeed a drama queen. Not unlike the drama queen of German idealism--Neitzche.

It's funny to hear your guys who couldn't futures markets. Without futures markets people wouldn't risk their money and you wouldn't have enough rice for anyone. That's kind of a blot blind-spot for philosophers who but never had to risk their own money.

@JohannesNiederhauser

9 ай бұрын

I’m risking my own money as I’m self-employed and I studied economics as an undergraduate. This sort of an apology doesn’t hold any more in times of high-frequency and derivatives trading, with players betting purely for the sake of profit.