Would love to see a episode or two on anchor, release and finish. Specifically for barebow.

This, together with your tension and direction video, is the key to successful barebow shooting IMO.

what ive been using is a pushing mentality to try to prevent creep im pushing my bow hand hard into the x and then focus on essentially pushing my elbow in the opposite direction. the tension and direction video was highly inspiring

Jake, what I teach my Barebow students is similar in that you are oh, so right about expanding through the shot. That doesn't solve the primary problem of not having a signal of when to loose the string. The clicker reinforces the necessary expansion and gives a signal to shoot. we have learned that the conscious mind can handle two thoughts at the same time (not just one as was what I was originally taught) and this is the only point in the shot sequence that this division of attention occurs. One channel is focusing on the continuing expansion and the other will dwell on aiming if you let it ... but the problem is there is no signal that tells you when aiming is a s you want it. (Think about what criterion you use for a good aim. Is it clear? Is it definable? Usually it is neither.) So, what I teach is this. If you draw , anchor and "get on" your point-of-aim (POA), your arrow will be moving in a random round and about pattern that starts with fairly larger oscillations and then these oscillations over the next one half to one and a half seconds (an estimate of an average) the magnitude of the oscillations gets noticeably smaller. (You have settled into your shot.) If you just keep expanding and don't shoot, in a few more seconds the oscillations will get bigger and bigger as you fatigue. You want to shoot in that short "quiet zone" because that sight picture tells you that you are being still, a necessary condition for consistent accuracy. So, the procedure I have my students follow is to treat that first quieting of the movement of the arrow point as if it were the click of a clicker. So, the procedure goes: draw anchor, acquire your POA, and then watch the arrow point for the transition to smaller oscillations and shoot when you see that. Once you have the desired alignment on your arrow point with the POA (I favor the point just touch the bottom of the gold) focusing on the movement of the point (for the next 0.5-2 seconds) actually prevents over-aiming of the "continuous trying for a perfect aim" variety and dumps that task onto your subconscious as you expand and loose when the oscillations diminish. You might want to try this. I have had a number of archers who found it helpful. (Note If you have memorized your sight picture, visualizing that just before you raise your bow is the only instruction your subconscious mind needs to perform its function of aiming while you concentrate on expanding and looking at arrow point oscillations, just as pre-shot visualization is the instructions your subconscious follows in Olympic recurve.)

Good topic. And very true on incorporating expansion for barebow IMO. One question that comes to mind is when to release so it's consistent. For recurve you've got a clicker to signal. But, for barebow it's probably more difficult to determine just how much you've expanded. I've also a question on finger pressure on the draw hand when pulling between recurve and barebow, e.g., position of ring finger

I went through all that creep, target panic, snap shooting when I switched from recurve to bare bow because I no longer have the clicker to help with expansion. I eventually got through it forcing myself to take time to ‘expand’ so great, great sharing of you experience and suggestion!

I got panic target sindrome but after follow what Jake explained .. its WORKS ! Thank you Jake regards from Jakarta Indonesia

Hey Jake, we were just talking creep at the club 2 days ago! Really enjoying your journey into barebow shooting as I’m sure many others are and the fact that you’re figuring things out as you go along is part of the attraction. One question that came up recently - Does stringwalking have an impact on tiller and should tiller be set up specifically for stringwalking?

Hey Jake, I’m glad you’ve come over to BAREBOW!

Jake, this is the everlasting topic for barebow, great choice! Expansion is the solution for creeping, that is solid truth. If it only was that simple. Unfortunately, it is not 😔 Even best world BB shooters suffer from it. Sometimes it even works in training on better days. But then the competition comes... everything goes down the drain. A clicker is a miracle device 😉

Good thought Jake. Thank you.

Well done Jake, your videos make me think a lot about my own shot process and even when I don't agree with your ideas, they promote thought and discussion. From my experience the only way to stop creeping forwards is to not stop going backwards, too many archers talk about the draw, release and follow through as is they are separate things, my draw slows right down as I reach anchor but never stops, then as I release it flows into my follow through, one long action.

Thaks Jake. Loving the barebow content. Keep it coming.

Jake Thanks for your videos they are always intuitive. I shoot primitive and we are not allowed to string walk or use and plastic nocks yet still a lot of principals still apply. Creeping, target panic, follow through, inconsistencies in arrow spine and weight present another set of challenges. Yet thank our again for your dedication.

This makes me think of snap shooters. Many people dismiss this form of shooting as ineffective until they actually meet someone who does it flawlessly. Creeping is completely bypassed because the shot goes off as soon as the anchor is hit. A solid consistent snap shooter is hard to come by though, it takes much more practice and effort to stay accurate in that style.

@Jake , just watched this again to remind myself re follow through/finishing the shot as have been dealing with target panic and poor release for the last month. Thank you 🙏🏹

Thanks for sharing...I love how you’re open minded 👍🏻

Again, this has been a HUGE help with my shooting. I play a game in the backyard, where I throw a tennis ball and shoot it with a JUDO tipped arrow. This game helps with unknown distances, as I'm a string walker. Your shooting tip, has helped me follow through and hit the ball on a regular basis. I'll be passing this tip along to others at the Berrien Springs, MI. CTB Rendezvous, this weekend. Thank you, sir!!!

Really helpful video!

Just started archery with Barebow and have been pouring over your videos. Firstly, thank you, your videos have helped me tremendously. Secondly, I would love to see a Q&A with a panel of barebow archers, answering submitted questions.

Solid assessment. ~FM

Thank you! I’ve been trying to shoot an adaption of KSL with BB for years. Your video’s have put it in a easily digestible form. I now push and try to set off my clicker, which isn’t there. More scores are way up and the bad arrows are 7-8, not 5-1! Thanks Arrowchucker

This video has helped me get through creeping and target panic, to become a better shot.

Very true. I also noticed them barebow archers doing this *creeping* or letting it down and wondered why are they doing this. Obviously you are right -to get more comfort

I’d like to see more about barebow content. I’m interested in how to zero in before starting to string walking.

@gilomonster6020

4 жыл бұрын

A couple of options: Option 1. Set your nocking point so your point on is at longer distance say 50m. This is a good long distance shot for barebow field competition. You can then string walk down from that under the knock point on position for all of the shorter targets. The only problem with this option is that your string walks for the shorter distances will be quite large. This can cause tuning problems where your arrows will act weak and kick off to the right on the larger crawls. Some higher quality limbs can offset this issue, Uukha limbs are awesome. Option 2. Set your nocking point much higher for a shorter point on (35-40m). This will make your shorter target crawls much smaller but you will need to hold over for the longer targets. Pick your poison : )

Great, honest, personal assessment of BB creep. Especially like the emphasis on how incredibly SMALL the BB expansion is, even compared to clicker draw. This is often lost or muddled when the instructor/demonstrator tries to demonstrate "follow- thru" with a big action. I know you are trying to illustrate continuity of back tension, but it sends a visual message of "big pull".

Hi Jake, you are bringing things up that i have been dealing with like creep, thanks for your thoughts,. One thing you should deal with is holding the shot while aiming, i have always shot too quickly, and when i slow down i get more accurate, but seeing as the whole shot cycle becomes a single action re training to hold your shot for longer is really difficult, i find, often my fingers will just release the string without my mental control, and i get false releases, i try counting but that does not work well, so i am trying different methods of slowing my release down without getting creep, if at the correct anchor point, i get my jawline in my thumb groove everything is fine good groups and accurate, but shooting too quickly and focusing on that allows creep to get in, i have tried a re curve anchor point ( central on the nose) and that gives me improved accuracy, but it does not feel right as i have used the jaw line as anchor for so long now, anyway thanks for the series and welcome to the dark side of archery, Barebow... bless you.

Woah... you really inspire me to do barebows.. 👍

Great advice for good Barebow shooting. I appreciate your point of view when changing from Olympic Recurve to Barebow. Can you share your thoughts on BB anchor and alignment (form geometry)? I have found this challenging as Recurve feels more in line with under jaw anchor string on the front of the face as compared to BB with higher side anchor and higher bow hand position.

Nice narrative on creeping .. quite helpful .. maybe a "dead release" I see in most BB archers is the result of creeping .. in the past I shot olympic recurve and just shifted to BB .. I guess the benefit I got from shooting Olympic recurve (shooting through the clicker) is having no creeping problems ..

It's the way the body works. You have probably seen this with the clicker- if you think you are pulling slowly through the clicker, you are really holding still. If you think you are holding still then you are creeping. Shooting high poundage for FITA you have to execute the shot quickly so you are more aggressive with the pull through the clicker, the expand. I don't do barebow so I don't know the process for executing the shot but I would think you would still be aggressive with the expansion in order to maintain proper back tension and that will counteract creep.

Thank you. I am super interested in more barebow content. I participated in a 1440 round today. Apart from a new anchor point to get to 50m with 32lbs my biggest issue is creep/loss of bow arm pressure. Had the same issue during the indoor season. I am considering using clicker during training. Any thoughts and ideas are greatly appreciated.

"Finish strong!"

Hi Jake, what are your thoughts on face walking compared to sting walking! I tried to string walk but Personally found that face walking ended up being more consistent for my style of shooting!

I was having a shoot earlier today at our club. Talking to one of the barebow guys on this very issue and I wondered if once a week having a session using a clicker would help. Or even training with a clicker for 30 odd shots at the start of each session?

You actually could use a clicker on bearbow to train on continuing expending. Just try to ignore that click sound.

I've seen a lot of videos of barebow shooters, and even some top level shooters and it often times looks to me like they have a dead release with the follow through of the arm as an after thought to get to position. So would a dead release be a bad thing?

Hej, reducing creeping is based on some experience with clicker from the past - could be. But what about newcomers into archery without Olympic recurve phase? Is it possible to perform well (avoid main pitfalls) in barebow for a complete beginner?

I think this was a really interesting video to me personally for a number of reasons. These are just my own observations but we have JK who's shot thousands and thousands of arrows by expanding through the clicker at elite level for years and years. A Pro in other words! The expansion must pretty much be a programmed movement by now unless its a concious effort to do that and not automatic. However it seems from looking at the video that aiming off the tip of the arrow stringwalking at a target adds some stress and takes the focus away from even holding the draw steady never mind expanding so maybe some concious effort to expand is required????. If the focus switches to aiming then is that why the creep sets in?? Leading to momentary loss of alignment, and depending how extreme especially for amateurs like me... collapses, plucks and then TP. Even for JK who has shot more arrows before breakfast than most shoot in a week he got some creep. 😯 With all that experience and and expanding through the shot in the Olympics finals on a recurve. As a BB shooter I ve been given advice to practise with a clicker to get the feel of expansion and then take that to my BB shot. But it seems that itself does not do the trick if JKs video has anything to go by. Surely JK has the feel of expansion absolutely nailed by now whether its subconcious or concious. He knows what he is doing. But he was still showing creeping on some shots?? If the clicker training works for BB then there should be no creeping with someone so experienced. But it seems that isnt so??? So maybe there is no cross over from clicker traing to BB....Confused 🤷‍♂️ So my take aways are to not let aiming distract your focus but to concentrate on keeping building pressure and expansion and then follow through. The aim needs to be relegated right down the pecking order. Could be totally wrong though. 😆 Jake what do you think? And what are you thinking during your good and bad shots? Where is your focus? Are you conciously expanding and is that where the problem lies because you can't give total focus to 2 things at once? Would be interested to know.

I just focus on elbow back & keep pulling from Al Henderson. My mind stays on the back end of the shot.

This is just an opinion but I think that the root cause of creep in this shooting style is the combination of string walking & the rather uncomfortable anchor point most barebow shooters use. This anchor form may have some built-in disadvantages and may not benefit from the bodies strong points. I only shoot barebow but I think there’s a mechanical advantage to the common Olympic anchor...

I shoot barebow and my draw length is 26 inches. I'm 5'5" so I can't draw a heavy weight for extended shooting (like a '900' tournament). What is the strategy for predictable results at 40, 50, 60 yards?

Sometimes I feel like I'm over expanding. So how do you know where the proper anchor point is to start expansion from? And how do you find the consistency in expansion so you are repeating it exactly the same length every time?

@JakeKaminskiArchery

3 жыл бұрын

Have you seen this video? kzread.info/dash/bejne/aWloxMyxlJTTqLA.html

Jake, just a FYI Square will not give a credit card account to anyone who sells bows and arrows. I tried to get an account when I owned south shore archery they refused me because I sold arrows and bows

@JakeKaminskiArchery

3 жыл бұрын

Good thing I’m a “sporting goods dealer!” Ha

How different it is selecting arrows for string walking from those of olympic recurve?

@gilomonster6020

4 жыл бұрын

Stiffer arrows are required due to the kick up the bum that the arrow gets when you walk down the string. Do your bare shaft tuning at around 20m with your crawl for that distance in place. When your bare shafts land with your fletched arrows with your crawl being used then your arrows are stiff enough.

@yannikessarios2103

4 жыл бұрын

Tuning a BB involves a bit of black magic, as the bow behaves differently at different crawls

i was shooting next to an Olympic recurve archer at my club and watched how he finishes with the clicker expansion and i decided there and then to pretend i have a clicker and pretend i have an arrow release too. I said, well I can't have the hardware for it but I can try install a software version in my mind that works a bit like that. mind game is acknowledging that you have a domain in your mind that participates as little or as much as needed to your shooting cycle, no matter what the "device" is, it's mind over matter.

4:05

Creeping, wow what a notion. Having just discovered this idea, my brain fundamentally rejects the notion. It is simply antithetical to how I've looked at the 11 steps of the shot process and how I've intuitively as well as kinesthetically developed my shot process. Creeping, as a shot process strategy is a movement pattern that undermines release and follow through, it seemed to me.

@JakeKaminskiArchery

3 жыл бұрын

Agree, but as you fatigue from holding the bow back your body starts to lose the tension you have built up naturally and is difficult to feel. Combatting that with "adding" tension will stop it and most likely not actually have increased tension as the shot goes on. Its just a perception thing IMHO

Yes more barebow lol

Fearing an inconsistent draw length, I too often attempted stopping at a precise bone-contact anchor point & releasing. Disaster! Creeping big-time, target panic, let-down of bow arm,/grip push, loss of aiming focus, lots of plucking, lots! I do much better when I come to a short pre-anchor point, stop there, then just continue slowly drawing backward to God knows where until the arrow slips away. This may clearly be a total loss of a very specific draw length, but It achieves much better vertical grouping than doing the opposite. I suspect adding this unknown additional draw length is so short a distance that it amounts to little more than a clicker expansion move. Whatever, the results are much more consistent and there’s instantaneous positive feedback of “good release”!

Don't be a creep will stop you creeping lol

Bypass the blabbing, 4:00

Illusion.Sorry. The overextending is much less harmful for a shot hten creeping and the clicker helps a lot in training but is allways between your sholderblades