I bought a ER25 set with a morse 2 arbor and chuck from them. Extremely satisfied with my set! One thou runout on mine. Your half a thou runout will indrease, the longer the distance is from the chuck. But well worth the money for the majority of hobby machinists! Thanks for the rewiew!

Thanks Ray, I was just considering getting a set of Banggood slightly smaller ER 25 collets, to do small repeatitive precision parts on my Myford ML10 hobby lathe. Now you've shown me the runout, there's no point....I may as well stick with the 3 jaw chuck, which achieves better than 2 thou TIR, or the 4 jaw if I want it 'bang-on'.

Appreciate the upload Ray. I should get this set for small parts, right now I've got a firing pin I'd like to make. Good to have around, you never know when the need arises.

Well looks like some adjustments are in order. Thanks Ray for the review.

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

That's for sure buddy!

You can always recut the 8 deg inner taper to get it running true to the spindle that it is in. They doing all the roughing out work, and then you finish it to suite your machine.

Thanks Ray. I've had mixed but mostly positive purchases from Banggood. I guess that kinda makes sense; we wouldn't call every tool from MSC, "MSC's" as they (just like Banggood) retail for many different manufacturers; which all differ in quality. Comparing concentricity of two tapers is an interesting challenge. I likely would have tested in a similar manner; although I suppose the most pure test (OxTom approved) would be rotating on V-blocks, which would be difficult to do. Very interesting & thanks again!

Really enjoyed this Ray, thanks a bunch, cheeers from Florida, Paul

@RaysGarage

2 жыл бұрын

Many thanks!

Good review Ray. Hope you have a great year.

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Many Thanks Mike, wish you a great 2018 too my friend!

Ok after watching this I thought I would buy a set of the same for the R8. My 1st test was true to the dial indicator the 2nd test was 0.014" out At the base of the collet chuck. After a bit of looking at the cap I found it did not let the collet through to the taper to give it a secure locking. I brought out the die grinder to give the clearance for the collet to lock on the cap taper an hey runs true now every time with each collet. I probably was a little OTT with my first comment but a little time taken to look and to take out 0.010" gives me a perfect result now every time. Also the anti rust gunk they put on is pretty thick even tho you cant see it so it worth a good clean of all the parts.

Hey buddy, if you remember I have the same 10” Clausing. I’ve been eyeballing that same er collet set for a while. I love that lathe but it’s one drawback is the treaded spindle! The MT ID is the only option for unidirectional repeatable use without fear of spinning the 3/4-jaw chuck off. I played with the idea of making a 3C collet nose for it (just for kicks). If I come up with something I’ll keep you in mind. Take care buddy!👊

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Whats up buddy, For sure the threaded spindle is a drawback but like you said it is a great little lathe and threads like a dream! I would like to correct the .0005" spindle ID run-out but want to verify the bearings are adjusted and all else is good then do a little light grinding to get that baby to run zero! I did grind the jaws of my cheap China chuck and got it run just under a thou, not bad for a hundred dollar chuck! I hope all is good with you and your new shop is looking Bad Ass Brother!

Once you get the collets up and running I would be interested on seeing what the repeat-ability is. Good review. Although I have some Banggood products I only use items where accuracy is not a factor. I use ER16 collets for small screws and the like and 3 to 4 thousandths run out is not acceptable.

when you first measured your machine spindle and got .0005 and you put the arbor in its not just subtracting your initial .0005 because the arbor is extending additional couple inches from your initial .0005 runout so you have to triangulate, I am just trying to say you are extending out from your initial spindle error so you will start with additional error thanks for showing your setup

Ray seems we all are having issues with the Bangood ER32 and 25 collet chucks , I confirmed my MT3 taper had all but zero run out, and reground both the ER taper and the face of the taper, only to find the runout only slightly better. I found two parts on the Sharrs tool site of a ball bearing nut. I still have a few of each of the ER collets that are questionable, but for the most part I am not getting less the 0.001 run out across the ER Imperial and Metric sizes ,....... seems nut is the culprit putting uneven load on the collet as it tightens down. cheers

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Yes, Seems like the nut is the issue but all in all we get what we pay for.. I'm not building aero space parts so a little run out is acceptable for most of what we do but I do appreciate tighter tolerances for the better projects!

Thanks for the review Ray!

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks but from the comments looks like I have some adjustments to make! Thanks for tuning in!

Ray, I believe runout can be measured much more accurately without a lathe, by using V-blocks. Start with a test bar sized to fit one of the collets, and first check it for runout using the V-blocks. Once runout for the bar is verified to be negligible, clamp the bar with a collet and MT4 spindle. Put the bar back on the V-blocks, and check the MT4 spindle for runout.

Hi Ray, I bought a very similar cheap collet set of ebay, same accuracy issues as you, probably worse. Try grinding or just re cutting the taper of the holder with it mounted on the lathe, mine came up really nice and it was very easy to do. I checked the outside of the holder was co-centric first. It would be interesting to see how hard the inside of the collet taper is. Also with the collets, mine had tiny burrs that i just cleaned out and that fixed up the rest of the accuracy issues. Now i get pretty good performance. It was cheap so i don't mind if its not perfect. Good luck with the set. Cheers

Thanks for the review. I had an offshore r8 collet kit like that and no two collets had the same runout. Drove me nuts. You may want to double check the spindle taper. Clausing has been known to go with weird sizes for their parts. My 12" Clausing has a 4-1/2 Morse taper in the head stock.

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the info, I did check the taper of my spindle and it is MT4, made double sure knowing Clausing did use 4-1/2 in some lathes. Thanks for tuning in!

Fair review. Appreciated.

Hi Ray, Half a thou is quite a lot for spindle run-out. Given that it's an ex-school lathe, I'd suspect a bent spindle due to a crash. It would be interesting to measure run-out with a known good test bar at various distances from the spindle nose.

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Paul Compton Hi Paul, I agree and will have to do some more testing since the spindle run-out is now keeping me up thinking about it!

@zephyrold2478

6 жыл бұрын

Testing only at one point does not say anything about runout of the spindle, as Paul says the way to go is to test with a good known test bar

@gangleweed

5 жыл бұрын

Hi, I would not be concerned with the taper in the spindle running out as it doesn't impact on the running of the lathe at all. When I do any between centres work I always hold a piece of material in the 3 jaw chuck and cut a centre that I know is going to run dead true. Been doing that over the last 60 years. That is a common practice by most turners I've ever worked alongside.@@RaysGarage

@planemaddan

5 жыл бұрын

Going off 2 dead centres is a little bit different to the topic of the test of the collet. The way you point out to me seems the tailstock is the factor?

Ray I'm of the same opinion. Most of us are using these sets for small work. Things that .005 run out isn't a problem. Now if someone is needing tight run out then you need to spend the big bucks. I use one of the plate type adaptors that I mounted to a backplate and it works well, again a lot of run out is as much from the collets as the adaptors

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Hello James, I was expecting much less run-out from a collet set but hopefully I can still find a use for them! Thanks for tuning in!

You should have added witness marks to your spindle, collet, and end-mills, that way you would know if the outage was being transferred in the same plain or not. Your half thou may have actually been taking away from a worse inaccuracy in the tool.

@frankmora8336

6 жыл бұрын

Agreed Fred, not an accurate review. I have bought from Bang good and Im still waiting for delivery 35 days now. How long did it take you MAN?

@funfordturbo

6 жыл бұрын

yes the proper way would be to add witness marks find out the worse and the best run out configuration, take the average and subtract the .5 to find out the true error. also it bothered me that he didn't move the indicator in and out of the race surface as a control.

Happy new year, Would you consider lightly skimming your morse taper and then the taper in the collett holder ?

You are way kinder than me!! I would say anybody would be better off buying a good drill chuck and using that as the run out would be the same or less.

@turningpoint6643

6 жыл бұрын

LOL, you said exactly what I was thinking Brian before I got to the comments. I do have drill chucks that will do better than that as well as a couple of 3 jaw lathe chucks that can do well under those numbers. To be fair the spindle taper in the lathe is still an unknown since only the area at the front was checked. But I think I'll stick with my Bison ER's. Randy Richards 6 jaw makes my collets look bad.

@chevy1986

6 жыл бұрын

bcbloc02 yup exactly. Considering it was less than 100 bucks. I think i would be more than happy with that. I wouldn't expect any decent TIR on that Chineseium at that price point. Garbage really.

@aubreyaub

6 жыл бұрын

Could also stick it up your clacker. Jeeez, you blokes are Good. Hey!

@turningpoint6643

6 жыл бұрын

So what's that supposed to mean aubreyaub?

@aubreyaub

6 жыл бұрын

Saying that you are full of yourself, your own importance, your opinions. edit: But I think I'll *stick* with my Bison ER's

Interesting thanks Ray.

Good to know Ray

I purchased an MT3 version from Banggood without collets for my Atlas lathe. The collets were purchased separately on E-bay as a 19 piece set. I also purchased an R8 version collet holder for my Bridgeport mill. I found a high run-out (0.006" typ) on the lathe if I just hammered the collet holder into the MT3 taper, but if I used a draw bar (M12 for my MT3 version) it was about 0.001-0.0015". On the R8 holder I found two interesting things. The drawbar was almost too short, and I had bad runout (.015"). Upon inspection I found the collet pin in my spindle was bottoming out in the keyway on the collet holder before it fully seated. I machined the keyway longer and achieved 0.0015" TIR, and the drawbar fit better. I did notice a lot of swarf in the collets, and some seemed to have a ridge at the far end which could account for some issues. It may require a bit of work to get it optimized, but the savings might be worth it to some people.

@RaysGarage

5 жыл бұрын

Interesting Bob, several others mentioned the swarf in the collets being a problem and will have to check mine out! My mill was missing the collet pin in the spindle and have never replaced it so that has not been a isse with me. Thanks for sharing this info! Best Regards, Ray

Hey Ray, thanks for the info. This set might work for me, I'm not making parts for nasa.

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Hey Denny, I agree and hopefully the set will come in hand for some projects! Thanks for tuning in buddy!

I'm sure you are right about the tool as I have some of their stuff and there is allot of room for improvement. But unless you did it off camera i would have liked to see you test your machine a little better. Because the taper on the tool hits on many more points, it would have been nice to have a measurement of eccentricity both at the mouth and several distances inside the spindle. Testing for run out in one location on a taper does not eliminate the possibility of a point within the spindle not being concentric with the mouth of the spindle. That would cause wobble as well as non concentric. Good video.

Good Morning Sir, You have done avery usefull collet chuck with taper shank, its very very easy to operate a lay man. Thank you, Regards.

@RaysGarage

5 жыл бұрын

Many Thanks and thanks for tuning in! Best Regards, Ray

There is a chance that the runout of your lathe mandrel might be greater that half a thou at the small end of the taper which would give you misleading results.

Good honest review. Thank you

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks Brian, and thanks for tuning in!

Hi Ray, Question please? Did you check the tightness of the contact point on your Mitutoyo Indicator before you did this test? 2nd A Chinese MFG ing Rep when questioned about quality stated Cost or Quality. To which I responded,.... "I was taught the objective of Mfg'ing is/was a product that is acceptable to specifications, in a reasonable amount of time, for a justifiable cost."... Apparently the school of thought now a days is you pay, then see what they send... (kind of like the Lottery)

And so you lucky. Recently I bought in China the collet chuck ER 32, after mounting the cutter length 100mm, the beating us the end was 1.5 mm.

Ray, I use the ER32 collet system all the time. I use it with a hex er32 block in my six jaw for most things, run out is OK. If I can find a square er32 block, I'll put in my 4 jaw for Zero run out.

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Hey Herb, the 4 jaw is always the winner for accuracy, thanks buddy!

All of the ER collet chucks I have from China have the same problem: the nut has insufficient relief. This results in different runout each time you tighten it. After increasing the relief, all sets meet specifications. YMMV.

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks Paul, starting to sound like the nut is a big problem here!

@whidbeyman

6 жыл бұрын

Ray Caniglia I wish that I had take photos before I machined out the relief, but the defects were pretty obvious: the interior relief was actually eccentric, i.e., off center, in each case. This is why tightening the nut has such a variable effect on runout.

I would have liked to have seen you put some of your expensive ER32 collets in the holder to see if the holder could be used. It might just be the collets themselves that are not accurate enough. Good review. Fair as far as I could tell.

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Jim Milne It would have been a good test but this is the only set I have.

For the price I think, as you said, for the hobbyist they are a pretty good buy. I'm thinking I might see if they have anything I can use on my heavily modified HF mini lathe. BTW, I finally got around to using you grinder upgrade. It works greats and I wish I had see the video years ago. Thanks again.

Thanks for the review Ray. I am thinking of some 5c collets and collet blocks from banggood, probably would be ok for my use and less that 1/2 the price of my local chineseium importer.

@J0Gu7

6 жыл бұрын

MSC 5c collet blocks $57 Same as bangood only shipping

you say that adding the 1/2 thou into the error. as when you add the collet holder it is further out so the run out may well increase

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Martin M6LKD very true!

@n8thgr8

6 жыл бұрын

You're right the further out you get from the spindle, the more amplified the run out becomes. I'd test it in a vise in the mill using a coaxial gauge.

Hi Ray,point well made.The prices that banggood charges are good,So thought that i would order a set, ordered my set and had the same problem.....i kept relocating the collet until i got the lowest reading and it improved considerably like two and a half thou...it works for me .......I do a lot of small tooling mostly machine parts Well Ray .keep up the great video's ....Till next time......Thanks.......Ray

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks Ray, I am thinking about playing a little more to make both my Clausing and this ER32 collet set better, just a little nervous about grinding my spindle!

Nice Job Ray.I like that indicator base how it sits on the ways Who makes that.

@RaysGarage

4 жыл бұрын

Hello Ernie, here is a Amazon link to it but you might be able to find it cheaper form other outlets. www.amazon.com/NOGA-Nogaflex-Magnetic-Base-NF1033/dp/B0006J49TS

Maybe you spindle error helped compensate the runout, so actual runout is 3,5 thousand's. Not 2,5.

Get a chunk of round stock, thread it to your spindle tpi then put your own 8 degree taper in it for those er32 collets, it will be more accurate and a good project to video and post.

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Great idea, thanks! I am needing a spindle thread protector so this would be a two in one solution!

I picked up an MT3 to ER-40 set off ebay for $180 with 20 collets. It had less than .004 runout. I made a screw on chuck for my Craftsman lathe. Since it was made on the lathe, it cancelled most spindle runout.. I get less than 0.002" and with fiddling, near 1 thou. A screw on chuck removes the need for a drawbar and you can feed stock through the spindle. My ER-40 dies up to 1".

@ScottHenion

6 жыл бұрын

Making a chuck was a fun project also.

Hello Ray, It would be interesting to see what the run out on an MSC set would be. I would expect it too is made in China even though sold at many, many times the rate. Good real world review and people can make their own choice whether it fits their needs. For me and so many others it isn't a choice between but that I would just have to do completely without otherwise. Take care. Doug PS might be worth a follow up video on how it could be tweaked?

If you're a good machinist you can regrind it to make it match perfectly with your spindle.

It is seriously important to make sure the lathe spindle bore is clean and undamaged if you want to do this comparison. Also, the further you measure away from the spindle nose, the worse the reading will become because reading will be multiplied. Run-out between the collet chuck and the collet could cancel each other if they are rotated that the one error cancel the other. If the bore of the collet (or chuck) isn't parallel to to outside (besides run-out between inside and outside), you will never get rid of the problem. Only regrinding might solve it.

@pieterbotes8938

4 жыл бұрын

Hi Brother, I made this comment for the benefit of readers who might not know these facts. I suppose many people won't worry about run-out or other inaccuracies. I do and so are many other people.

@RaysGarage

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for taking the time to share this very valuable information, I know most all my viewers read all my comments and will find your information very useful! Best Regards, Ray

Not quite Dang Good then? hahaha. Good to see the video Ray !

i to went and bought the er40 collet holder,but then i bought a collet scroll chuck.which is a better solution for me.i feel better now paying over $300 au for a set of er40 collets.you sometimes do get what you pay for.this was before bang good came on the sene though.maybe check out the scroll chuck too,my deal came with a backing plate that you had to machine yourself to fit your lathe.i think it came from the usa.

@geoffreyward4743

5 жыл бұрын

Scroll and Pinion Design

The error in the spindle is also multiplied-with distance it may not be the case here but it also could have some affect.

@RaysGarage

4 жыл бұрын

Yes for sure and after more testing I found the error in my spindle was only at the outer end, so most of the runout was from the collet chuck, I also checked how the MT4 seated in the spindle which tested good!

I use my banggood set as a convenient way to hold different sizes of drills and mills in the milling machine. I don't use them in the lathe.

@RaysGarage

5 жыл бұрын

Great idea Billy, thanks for sharing!

I bought a set of 11 (1/8 - 3/4) ER32 collets with really nice metal case for $71 + $13 shipping back in December 2016. All collets were 0.00025" TIR or less(except 1 @ 0.00035) including spindle+CT40 holders according to my 0.0001" graduation Brown&Sharp dial test indicator. Most Chinese collets are 3-4 times this which is probably why Shars seems to have raised the price considerably. With a few minutes spent clocking the collets I was able to achieve an average of 0.00015" TIR @ the shank of my tools. Holders were Shars ER32 CT40 holders w/3" projection which held 0.0001" runout well without clocking. IMO Anything over 0.0003-0.0005" of TIR @ shank is unacceptable and a good example why the stock Tormach holders require attention out of box so I would suggest going with a 30 taper spindle before investing in "TTS" holders. That said, my Precision Matthew rebrand R8 collets hold well under 0.0004" TIR @ shank...

What you are seeing is a combination of holder runout and collet runout. I wish I would have seen your video before I bought an R8 set and a straight shank holder plus 1mm-20mm set of collets. Mine are worse that yours. Also, the shank of the straight holder is out of round. I trued the straight holder to 1 thou, but you can't true the collets. I will be using them to hold odd sizes in a quick indexer to make angled faces on round stock. I learned a lesson with that buy.

@RaysGarage

5 жыл бұрын

Hello Roger, I am also told that the collet chuck nut is a big problem with these imports. i have not touch these since this video but need to dive deeper to see if i can get them to run truer.

Good review Ray, will be interesting to see in future vids...HNY

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks Chuck, I do need to play around with this set a little more, I'm sure I can make it better!

Would be ok for a machined part that never had to come out of the chuck but for finishing a part as a second operation I wouldnt use them. Would love to see how a high dollar MSC set compares. Happy New Year Ray ~ Richard

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Hello Richard, I agree but still have to correct my .0005" spindle run-out then I would have a better starting point for the ER32 collet set!

My dial arm & dial can be moved ie. side to side to get top dead center then i can zero.

Are your spindle bearings adjusted? Thought I saw some lateral movement when you installed er32. Hmmm

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Tom Semo I did check the spindle bearings after posting this video are good, I still had 1/2” thou runout on the ID, I’m sure the lathes days in high school were rough!

I think you're too kind withdrawing your lathes error from the best result. This holder isn't under 3 thou (0,075mm) which in my opinion is pretty much worthless. I'm looking for a flanged collet chuck for my lathe, with these sorts of runout i'd be better off with my 4 jaw chuck and a quality ER16 set for the really small diameters. I think there is a case to be made for a quality holder with a set of chinese collets, you'll pretty much have a 2,5 thou advantage over this set up. When it comes to the collets you might also be able to mix it up, I only have a few sizes I really care about, certainly not all from 2 till 20mm need to be perfect for my use.

my bangood mt2 er20 3/8's collet has 0.010 run out the rest are .002 or lower.

Did you check the inside of the spindle in several different spots? What is the outside runout? It might be able to be reground on the inside

@RaysGarage

4 жыл бұрын

Dik Hed ID spindle runout is only at the outside end, the runout lessons the deeper you go into the spindle. Yes, the spindle nose can be regrinded to run zero or close to it.

You should probably grind your lathe MT4 in any case. Errors tend to increase drastically the farther away from the initial error you go. After that, grind the collet, and you are only left with the inaccuracy of the collets themselves. Maybe you could grind those as well, but I have no idea how. You need to make them bind properly with the collet chuck first, which is problematic without something in them... A catch 22, if you like, :-)

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

I agree, the MT4 needs to run true but am a little nervous about grinding it, something i need to take my time and do right then everything else after that should be a breeze! Thanks for your comments and for tuning in!

I ordered some of the carbide inserts from China. I was surprised at how fast they got here.

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Hopefully the quality of the inserts was better than the run-out of this collet set!

Informative video thanks Ray. My Chinese collets claim a much better accuracy, I'll need to check them out. Happy New Year.

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Happy New Year! Hopefully your set will have less run-out than these, thanks for tuning in!

I'll stick with my 4 jaw. I've got 5C and ER32 collet blocks I can chuck up for small parts and the 4 jaw can adjust all the runout to zero. You can also chuck that one you have behind the neck and do the same thing if you want accuracy.

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

That's for sure, you beat a 4 jaw for accuracy! Thanks for tuning in and commenting!

When you buy these cheap collet chucks, buy the square mount chuck for a four jaw lathe chuck or the round shaft and use it in four jaw chuck. You can get close to zero runout. Amazon has them.

@Ukracer

6 жыл бұрын

hy1802d you got a link mate?

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Great idea, I can use the 5C collets the same way!

Although I have had pretty good luck with Bangggod products. This doesn't seem like a very good deal. I have a Chinese mini-lathe with a 3 " 3Jaw chuck and it is about 0.002" TIR. I was taught that you used collet chucks for better accuracy and the ones I bought from Shars were much better; by almost an order of magnitude (X10). I would return these myself as not being up to par..

@dougankrum3328

6 жыл бұрын

...Up to par.......You'd have to have sort of 'specs' from the Mfr....

@robertmalsbury8477

6 жыл бұрын

I agree, BANGGOOD needs to find a better supplier on this one. One with specs!

I rebuilt it, but never check the spindle.

Any decent 3 jaw chuck should repeat to 0.003" I don't see the point of these. As you said a collet should be easily repeatable to under 0.001" and these aren't. If you need $5,000-10,000 worth of grinding tools to fix this, you might as well get the good set at the start. I appreciate you guys experimenting with this. When I have to fill my new shop and make choices on the budget, I can see it will not be on the low $ end. Thanks Ray. Just an observation, the collets are likely metric. I saw that they (er 32 collets) have a 1mm range (Haas channel did a demo on them) and 1/2" = 12.7mm so you use a 13mm collet and have to squeeze 0.3mm. For the 1/4" you use a 7mm collet and squeeze down to 6.35mm, thus the higher draw in to tighten.

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Hello Barry, I can't agree more and was expecting much better accuracy form a collet set, hopefully I can mess with these and maybe get them better since you can't hurt broken!

I have a 12 inch atlas,,, is mine a number 4 also,,,was under impression it was a 3

@RaysGarage

4 жыл бұрын

Hi George, I tested my spindle with a MT4 center coated with sharpie and got good contact on the entire taper. Yours could very likely be MT3.

Enjoyed Ray! ATB, Robin

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks Robin, This new tool gives me something to play with and try to make better, maybe!

@ROBRENZ

6 жыл бұрын

Maybe think about getting a boring bar with a CBN insert and hard turning the Morse taper in the spindle to get it to run true. Then mount the collet body and hard turn the collet seat taper so it runs true. Then you can see if the collets themselves are junk and just replace them with a higher quality set

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Makes me real nervous grinding or cutting the ID of my spindle, something I would have to take great caution doing!

To take an accurate reading you have to adjust the stylus of the lever type dial indicator that it's as square (perpendicular) as possible to the surface being measured. To explain what I mean: If the surface being measured is say at a 10 degree angle, the stylus also must be at as close as possible to 10 degrees when an actual measurement is taken. It's fine if you use the dial to get something centered in the lathe when the angle wouldn't matter. The standard plunger type of dial works on the same principle. You can't take an actual reading if the dial is at say a 5 degree angle. An actual reading can only be taken if the plunger shaft is perpendicular with the surface being measured.

@pieterbotes8938

4 жыл бұрын

Me again brother. I'm familiar with these facts because I'm a toolmaker (Red Seal) for 45 years and I'm also a qualified metrologist (26 years). Metrology and tool making are closely connected as far as tolerances and accuracy is concerned. So, I share it for the benefit of all the viewers who might not know these facts or don't think about it when using a dial indicator.

@pieterbotes8938

4 жыл бұрын

It's a pleasure to share this info with your viewers, brother. I know about these things because I'm a qualified toolmaker (Red Seal) for 45 years and I'm also a qualified metrologist (26 years) - two trades that are closely connected as far as tolerances and other finer detail is concerned.

@RaysGarage

4 жыл бұрын

Hello Pieter, Thank you for sharing this very valuable info for all viewers to learn from! Cheers, Ray

Who's magnetic base is on the test indicator please? I like the fine adjustment....

@TheMiniMachineShop

6 жыл бұрын

Never mind it's a Noga and mispriced $63 should be $113 on Amazon ordered it! www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006J49TS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Yes that is the correct Noga mag base indicator, you will love using this little guy!

@TheMiniMachineShop

6 жыл бұрын

It came today and LOVE IT! Thanks for introducing it to me... Cheers

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Dave M Awesome Dave! 👍

One does have to look at the cost of tooling as compared to quality/accuracy. "For the buck" much of the BangGood stuff is just fine especially for the hobby and small shops. I was expecting a little better for the set though. Nice review.

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks Buddy, I'm thinking about grinding the ID of the collet chuck for a little less run-out but not much I can do with the collets...

amazing how ones standards drop when it comes to a low price. If you bought it next door you would take it back. Yes a collet is made for accuracy! Test your 3 jaw and you might be better off. Keep testing and adjusting and you might convince yourself that this is a good buy. Use a cheater on the spanner and it might be good.

Nice video.

Funny how we both reviewed basically the same set on the same day :) Yours look a bit better then mine but are still pretty bad.

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Just watched your review, excellent job! All in all we both came up with the same conclusion, way too much run-out and the quality of your set is just bad! Thanks for tuning in!

@GaryGrumble

6 жыл бұрын

I saw your review. There is basically poor quality control on these tools. Two reviews; same story.

@justinmaxwell1608

6 жыл бұрын

Rolingmetal I watched your video as well and your set looks like seconds

@ToreDL87

5 жыл бұрын

@@GaryGrumble Yeah the way they do it is they control it, then sell the subpar shit for low prices, and the good shit for higher prices (80 bucks and up). To put it another way, 20 bucks is worth a thou.

I know this a two year old review and I have seen others test. Not very good results from anyone. I did wonder on the 1/4 test if the results would have been different if the mill cutter could have been set deeper in the collet.

@RaysGarage

4 жыл бұрын

Results would have been the same, I am going to try and grind the chuck with a tool post grinder and see if I can get rid of the runout!

Can you re cut the it?

Could, please any owner of "real branded" collets publish a measurment to compare the quality?

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Hello Milan, That would be great to see if good quality ER32 Collets have zero run-out but don't think I'll be buying a high dollar set any time soon! Thanks for tuning in!

@wallyblackburn

6 жыл бұрын

I just did a quick and dirty check of my set from Poland (Bison brand). Not Hardinge, but maybe a step above Banggood? These are R-8. Results: Bridgeport spindle 0.00015 TIR, Collet chuck 0.0006 TIR, Drill blank in 1/2" collet 0.0012 TIR. I suppose one could try collet in different positions in chuck to minimize...

@siliconmcleod

6 жыл бұрын

I have a real brand, Maritool depending on your definition of real. It is a straight shank to ER32, I get 0.0008" TIR on a carbide end mill, 0.0005" on the taper of the collet chuck. The chuck and wrench was about $100 delivered and collets are about $20 each. Really good for the price.

@MilanDupal

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your evaluation.

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks a bunch for this information and some pretty good results there!

There are on ebay some great china sellers(seems like factory direct) you need to buy peace by peace but I had some hits and some misses. Some collets where great some where very bad. Banggood is not specialized for this so I assume they buy bulk and not so great tools. I would recomment to look on ebay alternative sellers who are selling only tools. They at least might chrck what they sell.

You never check the run-out of any spindle w/o running the machine to warm-up the spindle, and let the viscosity of the spindle oil find thermal equilibrium.

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the good advise but unfortunately I still have .0005” run-out on the ID of the spindle after running the lathe for several minutes.

@algirdpatrick5048

6 жыл бұрын

Checking the concentrically of a collet is best done with a pin-gage which is usually within .0001 of true dia, depending on the grade. In a pinch, a dowel-pin (US only) can be used. It is imperative that the " pin " inserted into the collet runs the entire length of the collet to prevent any distortion of the collet. That will result in a false concentrity reading. Considering your Clausing is from the 50's (if not earlier), came from a trade school and has a gear-driven spindle - .0005" TIR isn't bad. Gear drives aren't kind to spindle bearings. My favorite lathes are the Hardinge, LeBlond Regal and the Clausing in that order. Just out of curiosity - does your machine have the foot-brake ?

Confused, you keep saying "thousandth" or variations but your indicator is marked as being .0005". Doesn't that mean each larger/longer mark is .0005"?

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Hello Russ, This is a half a thousandth Indicator (.0005") so each line is half of one one thousand of one inch, each larger line is one thou or one one thousand of one inch. I hope this clears this up for you and thanks for tuning in!

Thanks for showing these collets,,,you’ve given me enough reason not to get one

The chuck is amplifying your spindle run out

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Hello John, I agree and more testing is needed as well! Thanks for tuning in! Cheers, Ray

actually you are introducing more than .0005 runout, because of the length. If it is wobbling, even a dead nuts tool will increase runout with tool length. Trigonometry is working against you. Think of holding a broom handle and moving your hand in a 1" arc. Does the end of the broom handle move just 1"? no. Its movement is directly related to the tool length. The only place on that lathe that you will ever have .0005 runout is directly where you measured it on the spindle nose taper. Also, did you torque the collet nut to e.r. specifications? Or just randomly tighten it to what you felt like? This is *crucial* on an e.r. collet of any brand. And the torque spec for e.r. 32 is 100 ft. lbs. You should verify you aren't the problem before blaming the tool. Not saying that it isn't the tool, just saying the whole setup is wrong to accurately check runout.

@RaysGarage

5 жыл бұрын

Makes great sense to me and very possibly could be me, I will have to play with it some more. i have not touched the set since this video. Thanks for the tips! Best Regards, Ray

@chuckphilpot7756

5 жыл бұрын

Ray's Garage Depending on how rigid your clausing is you may be able to hard turn your spindle nose taper with the machine itself instead of grinding. A cbn wiper insert would be best. But you would have to be pretty confident with your machine, .0005 could be bearings or an alignment issue just as easily as the nose taper being warped.

Others have tested the same set on KZread and gotten really horrid results... so it's pure chance what you get... I wouldn't recommend it to anyone :(

Garage has a heck of an echo. You need more machines in there to muffle the sound. :)

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Hill Top Machine Works Yes I do, maybe a surface grinder!

Have to agree with the other posters. This is no better than a decent 3 jaw chuck. But your spindle probably makes it a bit worse. You aren't the first person to find this out.

Ray thanks for the review. By clocking your original run-out error can be either additive or subtractive over all so it can actually help. On these inexpensive collets you have to fiddle with them and clock them to their best setting every time for any hope of any accuracy but most of us are not building the Space Shuttle in the basement either. I to have some of these offshore collets and one will be OK and the next one will be wonky but for the price, yeah you can't beat it if you work accordingly. I wonder if there is some size you end up using a lot it might be worth dropping the money on a proper collet, would be curious to see if a "good" collet would run acceptable in the Banggood chuck. Happy 2018 Ray.

For what you paid for you're getting allot!

Rolingmetal did a review today on the same kit his also was very bad.

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Hey Jim, I just watched it, his set was a lot worse than mine but both had way too much run-out for a collet set!

On a MT knocked with a tap of the Engineers friend how true do you want it to run? With half a tho at the spindal every move out will make the run out worse. I love piss pot Engineers that can talk better than they can make parts.

No good! I'd send them back. I picked up.an import set from MSC a few years ago and they are dead nuts on. Old saying goes, you get what u pay for in most cases. Ray send them back. If you paid with PayPal you are protected. I'd get my $$$$$$ back and try somewhere else.

Sorry, I can't take any findings you indicate with any degree of confidence. The cheap chuck does run out without a doubt, but the VERY first thing you should have done was to check the fit of the chuck taper to the taper in your spindle, using an indicator blue , taking it that the spindle on the lathe was a better quality manufacture than the Cheap chuck and the taper you showed had only 1/2 a thou run out. Turning the chuck 180 deg and getting a different reading should have immediately told you that the taper was either sitting tight at one end or the other. BTW, it only takes a very light grind with a tool post grinder in the ER taper bore of the chuck while in the lathe spindle to make it run dead true, no more than a couple of thou at most.

@RaysGarage

5 жыл бұрын

Honest assessment and might have to revisit this at some point. I have not touched or used these since this video. Thanks for tuning in and for commenting! Best Regards, Ray

ER collets are not meant to be tigthened with the tool not all the way in. You need to make sure the full lenth of collet is engaged before tightening it. If you don't your tool will not sit straight, nor not hold it propperly. See kzread.info/dash/bejne/iX-dzc9vk7SxmJM.html for a good explanation. And also a comparison to good name brand holders and collets.

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

Excellent video on ER Collets and learned some great info but as a hobby guy I don't think I will be making the investment into this level of machine tooling, would be great but don't see it in my near future. Thanks for the link and for your comments! Best Regards, Ray

How do they even grind these collet holders that they have such a high runout? WTF is their grinding setup? I'd understand an error in the taper angle but such high error in concentricity? LOL they're doing the grinding ass backwards

Best 'Bang' for Your Buck........so you get maybe 50% duds and mis-fires......?

just regrind the arbor with a cheap die grinder rigged on the toolpost, like a doing a 3jaw chuck. its already bad, cant hurt it.....

@RaysGarage

6 жыл бұрын

My thoughts exactly, cant hurt broken!

@vettepicking

6 жыл бұрын

when I buy china tools I just see as a kit of cast parts I need to make good.

well that is not very fair way to test the run out. If the machine already has .0005 run out at the machine then the farther you measure from the machine the larger runout is going to be, its not that simple just to add the run out of the machine. You have to know the length of the hypotenuse of the runout on the machine then calculate the angle of the runout and then you can calculate the runout that machine creates the farther you go off the chuck.

@RaysGarage

4 жыл бұрын

You are 100% correct, thank you for sharing this information!

@zeomarmob

4 жыл бұрын

Ray's Garage after viewing your and other reviews about tool holders from China I got paranoid, I went and checked all of mine out. But for my surprise mine were almost perfect, I have .0002 run out at the machine and .0003 at the tool. But I have hsk63f tool holders.

@RaysGarage

4 жыл бұрын

@@zeomarmob Great results, sounds like you have a nice set. Many committed saying that the collet nut could cause some of this run out.

0.003" runout is the advertised value for a SHARS imported 3=jaw chuck. Your ER-32 collets should be appreciably better than that