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@user-mh9qz4qi1f

4 ай бұрын

nice video

@mokeymokey1035

4 ай бұрын

Unrelated question: what microphone do you use?

@nawrden4721

4 ай бұрын

A good saying. "Balance is boring, Fair is fun."

@thejuiceking2219

4 ай бұрын

okay but seriously, i want a caiphas cain model

@sheakennedy-ordway1156

4 ай бұрын

The king of Australia is canon in 40k. His name is Nate.

Balancing a game is easy. If your opponent plays Bretonia, they automatically lose any other game they play. There, balanced.

@battiger00568

4 ай бұрын

perfect, couldn't of said it better myself, you sir are a true genius

@ivar3654

4 ай бұрын

This should be pinned,brilliant!

@jkbscopes1233

4 ай бұрын

does that mean a bretonia v bretonia battle is a draw?

@whitewall2253

4 ай бұрын

​@@jkbscopes1233 nope, both get marked down as a loss.

@discountplaguedoctor88

4 ай бұрын

@@whitewall2253 Only for Bretonnia. It's a win-win for everyone else.

Glass cannons are always hard to balance because they either win fast or lose fast, and that means even the slightest advantage or disadvantage can rapidly decide the outcome of a fight. That's what in math is known as a Chaotic Attractor

@LinkiePup

4 ай бұрын

Love my Guass

@BrandonGiordano

4 ай бұрын

I'm personally usually very attracted to this playstyle because when you pull it off it feels like you had to earn it with skill. It's definitely hard to balance though

@thejuiceking2219

4 ай бұрын

it also doesn't help in something like warhammer that's turn based, where you just have to kinda sit there and let your opponent do their thing

@thesittingacheroraptor7565

4 ай бұрын

'CHAOTIC'? HERESYYYY!

@sulphuric_glue4468

4 ай бұрын

Tbh the glass cannon does not gel terribly well with a turn based game in my opinion. A glass cannon relies on player skill to overcome its fragility, rewarding good positioning, technical knowledge and damage avoidance with superior power. This just doesn't gel with a game format where you are incapable of reacting to what your opponent is doing in real-time, especially one heavily dependent on dice rolls and random chance like Warhammer. While good positioning certainly plays a part, it usually leans more towards luck than skill, with the battle mostly being decided by your army composition and whoever is lucky enough to go first. The "skill" part mostly comes before the game has even begun. This is a serious problem with competitive Warhammer in general, particularly because army composition depends heavily on how much money you have available to spend on toy soldiers, but especially so for glass cannon type armies.

3:15 fun fact: chess experts agree that chess is actually in favor of white, as white moves first and gets to dictate whether they play offensively or defensively while black has to respond

@jamestipton7872

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, it’s like…..I think 52:48 in favor of white or something.

@justinlast2lastharder749

4 ай бұрын

Depends on the individual. That advantage is turned into a disadvantage when you play against a "Counter Puncher"...it's even more of a disadvantage if the black player is crafty and understands the psychology of it. If you know your opponent playing white considers it an advantage and thinks they are dictating pace, you can use that against them

@shinkiro403

4 ай бұрын

@justinlast2lastharder749 that still requires a skill advantage to exploit, if the players were more on the same level starting first is unilaterally advantageous

@williamhaber7523

4 ай бұрын

The balanced solution there is to play multiple games, alternating white. Admittedly, that’s easier to do with a chess set than two armies and a play table

@loklan1

4 ай бұрын

@@jamestipton7872 it's worse than that, it's 37% white wins, 27% black wins with the rest draws at high level play.

The moral of this video is that I started rambling about balance and decided I would force those thoughts on all of you

@davidmartin9225

4 ай бұрын

We all love your ramblings, please keep making more at your leisure sir.

@Predator20357

4 ай бұрын

That’s why I’m here good sir, to hear a man’s thought on an Expensive Board Game Balance System

@mattg6893

4 ай бұрын

This week I've been thinking about how balance is absolutely necessary for multiplayer games but it can ruin the experience of some single player games. You had good timing for this random rant.

@BerserkerLuke

4 ай бұрын

​@mattg6893 Oh my God, this. It kills me when devs nerf something to hell in a single player game, especially something unique. There's no one to bother, just leave it be!

@insaniam_convertunt_scientiam

4 ай бұрын

The best systems lean into the creativity of players. It’s another good reason to give armies traits like speed based, melee focused and all that stuff. Give a lunatic a book of rules and watch the fun.

Warhammer balance is simple, just make every unit's point cost be equal to 10 times their weight in grams

@mariojorge68

4 ай бұрын

Folks who still use the old metal dread: I'm never going to financially recover from this

@mr.god.complex

4 ай бұрын

Metal model users are sweating rn

@wolf2965

4 ай бұрын

Would the cost of Abaddon model include or exclude the arms using that balance method?

@bestnameever1850

4 ай бұрын

necron models being 90 air: you fools are doomed

@cccaaawww8685

4 ай бұрын

Catachans are .55 grams 🗣️🗣️🗣️

Angronbeing banished by a random eldar middle manager is now canon.

@consolescrub4031

4 ай бұрын

Considering the amount of times the Grey Knights have put him on respawn timer. I think old crystallising Eldrad could do it.

Trying to homebrew changes in the name of balance with a group of friends a few years back just showed us how damn hard it really is.

@ShadowFox178

4 ай бұрын

It's shockingly easy to break when you try to modify it too much. You make one character just a teensy bit more tanky and suddenly you just can't kill the bastard. Same goes for buffing speed. I recall some madness of Tyranids at one point being able to charge almost endlessly wiping an army gun line so damn fast. Can't recall if that was 5th ed but I think it was that or 6th.

@twicedeadmage

4 ай бұрын

@@ShadowFox178 It was Deamons, instead of nerfing them we buffed everything else. It was terrible

@Lunch_Meat

4 ай бұрын

Our gaming group got pretty good at making certain kinds of Homebrew rules but they required rules on top of rules or specific instances to make it work (so, for example, we each made our own special characters with special rules and stats but it had to work more like building a character in DnD where you only had so much wiggle room to go beyond the normal HQ unit stats. Or, you could buff or debuff certain units, but only during friendly campaign matches) Even then, it took us a year to really master it so that it was fair and balanced. It probably would have taken us even longer, but one of our older members was an engineer for the US air force who specialized in probability. It still resulted in some crazy issues (turns out giving 4th edition ork flash gitz even 1 extra points in ballistic skill and 2 extra for the nob created an absolute monster unit)

@fuzzyhair321

4 ай бұрын

​@@Lunch_Meatyep it what makes them scary right now

@DeafLord18

3 ай бұрын

Yeah it is. Ran a full year every weekend possible urban conquest event. The second you think of one tweak the exploit peaks around the damn corner.

Me watching an AoS game where Gotrek tables Archaon: "Thank Sigmar the Chaos player actually brought a high value target, otherwise Gotrek would just be an overpriced chaff chewer."

0:27 then there was Brigitte who completely destroyed any balance Overwatch had left.

@5n4k3d0rk

4 ай бұрын

I don't miss the stunlock days of OW...

@justinlast2lastharder749

4 ай бұрын

You see, I avoided this by just not playing dumb Hero Shooters. Same problems pop up in every single one of them.

@patrickiamonfire965

4 ай бұрын

@@5n4k3d0rk​​⁠​⁠though AOE is important in OW even if its stunlock. The game does make it clear which characters can stunlock and how long also these can be avoided. Basically like MOBAs bad decisions leads to disappointment. However there times when the devs did a bad job on balancing but knowing how toxic their workplace is and how normal devs are treated I’m just gonna hold the company accountable for it which they are cause they did enforce bad decisions too.

@LexYeen

4 ай бұрын

Overwatch was balanced?

When everything is op nothing is

@sophiequam4235

3 ай бұрын

The 2nd edition way of doing things

Whenever I try to imagine gameplay with fluff-accurate numbers I end up tormented with visions of one side fielding the kind of army that you’d normally see represented in a high points _Epic_ game, versus roughly one hundred Space Marines. You’d need to be suspended in the air from a harness just to be able to move your units around the giant table you’d have to play it on.

@Lunch_Meat

4 ай бұрын

I can't remember which edition it was in, but at one point in time there were alternative white dwarf rules for "movie" Space Marines that was basically built specifically to feel more "lore accurate." Pretty sure it may have been the proto-kill team game, and it was awesome

@kglguy

4 ай бұрын

4th edition epic tried doing more lore accurate marines. A marine army in thatcsystem wasn't that much bigger than a 40k army. You really felt like a single company of marines could take a whole city. A lot of marine fans complained that their faction didn't feel very epic, though.

@megan00b8

2 ай бұрын

Lore accurate 40k be like My army: one random unnamed custodian. My opponent: 50000 guardsmen, 200 tanks, 300 artillery pieces, specialised squads, heavy equipment and weapon emplacements and an entire simulated command structure. At that point I may as well just download some mods into Rimworld or Skyrim (depending on which kind of autistic I feel like today) and experience my one guy without waiting a day for each turn to take place.

Part of it I think is the use of the D6 rather than a D10 for balancing. You can’t make a unit slightly tougher than another, you have to either make that infantry unit be as tough as a tank or add another layer of rules which make everything even more confusing. It’s paper spaghetti code.

Another big factor in balance is balance across skill levels. Certain playstyles, like the hit-and-run of Pancreas's beloved Eldar, are always going to be more successful when both players are highly skilled than when both players are complete novices, since a good player gets a lot more out of movement tricks than someone who doesn't know how to avoid enemy fire, and so the army's weakness of relative frailty (which the novice will very frequently blunder into) will come up less frequently. So, do you balance for the pros? Then the new Eldar players will just get stomped. Do you balance for the novices? Then the top tables will be nothing but knife-ears flitting about. And while the latter might not bother our host much, it's probably not an ideal situation for GW, or most of the player base.

@PauLtus_B

4 ай бұрын

I feel that is often forgotten. It's basically a trade off between reliability and potential. But even then that's assuming there's only one way to be a skilled player and not multiple potential ways to be good at a game.

@merccc1

2 ай бұрын

Simple. Balance for the pro's. NEVER EVER balance for the lowest common denominators, the high end pros usually reveal the actual balance. Then, as GW, the company making the game. You should make solid quality sources online, with products like codex's and so on, that properly teach the novice's how to play that race and get the most out of them. That way you can make quality fun mechanics no matter what skill level and new players at least have a chance. The good players will still have advantage as they may be better at utilizing the strategies and recognizing when to do different things, but the novices will have a general right way to go about things until they master it. Instead they just get the details of the army and have to figure out how they play them completely from scratch... I mean, why is the rule book not filled with this for each faction included instead of an over abundance of lore that you could do in it's own book for the bulk of it. We only need a bit... This also would allow players to look into and understand their opponents general playstyle, but maybe not have all the specifics like the codex would have.

The thumbnail made me imagine if GW decided that heavier models were more overpowered and now I'm thankful tha Warhammer is mostly a rules shitshow instead.

@The_cestelin_Holland

4 ай бұрын

Ha

I see Pancreas is handling Dogehammer's victory well

Kinda reminds me of Chaos actually. Whenever something is nice, something comes out of nowhere to give you the finger.

I feel like 40k is partly hamstrung by the sequential turns, as opposed the players taking turns to activate a single unit, just by the scale of the game. Letting one player activate 2000 points worth of models in seqeunce can lead to some really feelsbad moments, sorry your positioning was off, you have very little you can do as its my turn, say goodbye to half your army. This then only gets worse on player twos turn, if the first round was bad enough, it can be really hard to dig yourself out of that hole. Slightly besides the point but I do also find concurrent turns a lot more dynamic, i get to see what my opponent is doing and react to it a lot faster, and the opportunity cost for any activation vs another adds a fun element

@minibotas9496

4 ай бұрын

Wait, I’ve been playing with a friend of mine in TTSimulator for a bit… and you’re telling me that I got the most basic rule wrong? We’ve been taking turns to activate one unit (plus *supporting* character, if any) at a time, no wonder I kept thinking to myself “how does one get tabled on round 1?”

@eliconnon2778

4 ай бұрын

@@minibotas9496 yeah that's impressive, but if you do want a system that works like that and can use the same models, look up one page rules:grimdark future

@thejuiceking2219

3 ай бұрын

my solution is give units d&d style initiative and reactions for initiative, each unit has a number from, say, 1 to 10, if your number is higher, you go first, so something like an eldar harlequin would have an initiative of 10 and be able to go first almost every time, while something like death guard or necrons would have an initiative of 1 and have to wait for everything else before they can act as for reactions, i'm not sure how that would work, maybe give them like a reaction roll, like say a harlequin during an opponent's movement phase can roll a die and on a 4+ they can move a certain distance or make an attack, or maybe allow them to suspend their current movement and wait until the opponents moving before making their decision

I think one of my favorite things about GW balance (or lack thereof) was back in 8th them going "well of course we can't balance things before public release, our playtesters are only able to play a whopping 4 matches a week and don't believe in trying to stack buffs nor do they intimately understand whichever army they're playing" and not realizing that their incompetence was one of the biggest problems with their attempts at balancing armies

@jamestipton7872

4 ай бұрын

Did they really only play four games a week?

@johndunn1625

4 ай бұрын

@@jamestipton7872 I can't remember exactly how many they said the play testers would do, but I do know that the number was laughably low

@justinlast2lastharder749

4 ай бұрын

It's insane to me that we are already on 10th Edition when 8 was only released in June 2017. By the time anyone other than KZreadrs and the few very rich players had even purchased all the Rule books, 9th Edition released.

4:30 a triangle would've been better to show it, same layout with toughness top, speed bottom left strength bottom right and the closer you are to them the speedier, tougher or stronger it is. it adds a scale to it rather than specific categories, instead of "x army is fast and strong" it's "x army is fast and strong but can still hold a line" or "x army is fast and strong and will get absolutely shredded if a light breeze comes its way"

Just so long as we never go back to 6-7th ed balance where the balance was "what was the newest thing GW released?" I tried playing Nids during that period just to see if I could win. It was possible, but nobody liked playing against 3 (minimum) flyrants and cheap chaff to hold objectives while they were unable to kill the flyrants.

"But...but I should have won. Thats not fair! I never expected that!?!" "Yup! Thats 40k son....the real 'Game Of Life'.

Some armies, like Tau or Knights, are just inherently skew lists. Either the matchup can beat them or it can't, there's little in between.

Lore IS gameplay; you're 100% right. Tom Francis, the guy who made Heat Signature, Gunpoint, and is working on Tactical Breach Wizards, made a video on game development where he went into how fundamental the imagined context is to the fun of a game. Without the story and fantasy; it's just poker without betting. A meaningless slog of statistical dice rolls. Even chess is a fantasy of knights and kings; imagine if the chess pieces were just named 1, 2, 3. Hell, even regular playing cards have diamonds, hearts, kings, queens, etc; even without deep lore (and there used to be; the face cards used to be named for specific mythological figures) it's still flavor at the very least.

As of today... We are officially out of your content! XD We've been listening to them during rabbit cage cleaning days here on the farm. Amazing stuff to listen to with our brain while our body goes through the motions. Keep up the great work! Hope you have a great day!

love the video Pancreas NoWork could do video on cites of sigmar

What bores me about warhammer, the total war warhammer games anyways, is that all the army comps start to feel the same with different models What is really the difference between a bunch of red guys really good at melee sprinting at the empire army thats 75% artillery and a bunch of green guys who are really good at melee sprinting at the dwarf army thats 75% artillery?

@JetJaguarEnthusiast

4 ай бұрын

You can boil them all down to unit types, but that's how Total War games work in general. All melee units are melee units, and all artillery units are artillery, the difference is in how they function and what type of melee/artillery they are. You can expect "Red guys" (aka Khorne) to excel on the charge, not rely on any sort of magic, and to have high attack with lesser defense. You can expect "Green guys" (aka Greenskins) to have poor leadership, high numbers, and that's just infantry. There is a lot of variety with monstrous units, swarming with da waaagh, etc. You can play Greenskins and Khorne the exact same way, but it's not necessary or advisable, really. With the artillery it mostly just relies on the way the artillery shoots, but I'll be real with you I don't play Empire enough to really know any of their artillery except the Helstorm rockets. I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong, but I hope this can help you enjoy the game at least a little more. Ultimately it is a lot about aesthetics. Although I do love the druchii melee and ranged infantry play style, truly I play them because I am an edgelord who loves the evil elves.

@siluda9255

4 ай бұрын

Volound has being calling that out for years

@PhilosophicallyAmerican

4 ай бұрын

If you are playing all factions the exact same, that's on you.

@therealfsh

4 ай бұрын

@@PhilosophicallyAmerican i dont, its just when the best army comp for khorne is 15 melee infantry units 2 cavalry units (possibly missile) 2 monsterous infantry units 1 giant guy And the greenskins its the same thing, but instead of army abilities you get "waaaagh" and some spells, its hard to see them as very different and entertaining factions

@matt_9112

4 ай бұрын

That's just RTS natural limitations. SC has very different faction compositions, you get three factions, because otherwise balance would be a mess. AoEII has loads of factions but the tech tree is build around 90% same basic units, with upgrades and only some unique stuff making the difference (and still hard to balance).

13:26 I heard him say simple and easy, and immediately thought "Those are the same thing," THEN PANCREAS, THROUGH TIME AND SPACE, KNEW I WAS THINKING THAT. My goodness

@justinlast2lastharder749

4 ай бұрын

Simple and Easy aren't exactly the same thing. Flat Wall Drywall Texture is a simple design. Orange Peel or Knockdown is a more detailed Texture. Flat Wall is also the Hardest to do. Orange Peel and Knockdown aren't simple, but they are easy to do.

This is why the Sons of Behemat is the peak of balance. No weapons, no hundred model types to individually tweak. There's six models total, and they all brought their favourite big stick.

This should be required viewing for all gamers everywhere. Brilliant work my dude, brilliant work.

I think the problem is that these game companies want to actually balance rather than make them feel like they are balanced. The feeling is more important than the actuality on this

6:49 i just realized who the strongest god in warhammer is, THE DICE GOD😂

with the grain of salt that I'm someone who doesn't play the game but loves watching battle reports. The game's balance problem seems to come more from the way content is released than the actual rules. Unlike a videogame the rules of the game are a separate product from the game pieces themselves. Because of this gw is not incentivized to make fixes to the core mechanics because that devalues the rules product leaving most changes to only be in point values to the point of ad mech becoming a horde army. if revising stat sheets or adding new weird traits to units was normal within editions I think we would see an immediate improvement in the game's balance at least in terms of matchups being less predictable. instead of buffing the shooting power of an underperforming unit, give them something wacky that only works under certain circumstances

The tournament turbo nerds don't have much room to bitch about balance in my eyes since they deliberately break anything they can in order to squeeze out any advantage they can. Not to mention that thanks to them people have forgotten that this is a toy soldier game, the rules are what we say they are. 2 examples. 1. The old bodyguard/line of sight thing. Everyone agreed that it was a broken, stupid interaction that shouldn't work that way but everyone kept doing it, and putting up with it, for months until daddy GW changed it. 2. I once saw someone online asking if they could put a certain relic on a certain character. He wasn't sure because the relic said it replaces an astartes chainsword, but the astartes character in question was equipped with a chainsword. If you need that degree of handholding no one can help you. Stop taking the toy soldier game so serious and most of its problems disappear.

Really cranking out the content this year. Nice!

love ur videos keep up the good work and can you make some videos on chorfs or grand cathay emperor (or maybe just some stuff in cathay like tigermen)

Something that I do love about “bad balance” is when you beat the op character, faction, meta building or whatever you have, with the obvious bad one. Sometimes, intentionally creating an underdog makes it very challenging and rewarding to play as. And if you ever get worn out, just play the OP one for some easy fun.

@MrSeventyAce

4 ай бұрын

I agree. Warhammer is a social game and players can always talk beforehand and agree not to use certain units or tactics that would make the game unfun. Also, its good to have villains and underdogs, especially in a game that is based on dice.

Balance is one of the reasons I enjoy Blood Bowl. They don't care if the teams are unbalanced, to a degree. It creates a more casual atmosphere if one player goes in knowing they're probably going to lose, but if they do pull off a victory the bragging rights will be huge.

the exit is to make everything so broken that everything cancels itself out

Wow, only an hour out and over a hundred comments. Pancreas getting popular!

you rambling on is exactly why i enjoy listening to you

I finally caught up with the current videos, thanks for the great content. I'm waiting for more, because I have a lot of Old World figures to paint.

Playing the Sons of Behemat( aka giants) the only real problem with my army are their saves.

This mans commentary is so good I can watch an entire video on the balancing of a game I've never played

top notch vid my friend, 11/10

To be fair, the whole point of war fare and military might is to be as overpowered as your nation can afford. So even if any war game is one sided, it is by default being realistic

As someone who has 400 hours in total war my perspective may be a little off but it seems pretty much impossible to balance Warhammer. You pretty much have to do balance changes as the game develops and even then, you have to accept that it will never be truly balanced without taking away what makes all 500 factions special.

Trust me, I know how hard it is to balance and keep things very interesting for different army types or just general game balance in all. This mostly stems from my own personal passion project of creating a TTRPG Wargame and also with helping in some game balance for a friend in a few weapons. Even writing down game stats and ideas in a doc to see how well each individual character works and feels while trying to keep that Identity there. Hell, I have a passion project that is for a Card Game that is a bit hard to follow and even Sci-fi, Fantasy and Superhero one that is hard at times to figure out a good balance as it is very much a near impossibility to do with a large diverse cast that plays differently. The way I found it was simple, make it as fair and balance as possible while giving a few off the road picks that are not good in a Competitive Environment, but fun in the most casual of areas, which also at times leads to frustrations. Though due to them being off the beaten path for the Super Elite Sweats, they might find it hard to play against or with those picks from how little they have to play against them at those levels. But if you can bring them in with a very or decently solid team, it can work, though you need to be playing smarter than them to win. (gunplay in games are different as that can be easy, these are characters/army units I am talking about) This is mostly ignoring the terrain and how it is set up along with the rules that are to follow for them. On terrain aspect. We have all see and been there with the maps that are very good or extremely shit. Where the cover doesn't give you much help if any when you are the attacker or if you are defending it. Where the map doesn't compliment any form of the characters, players or units play except for the most bare bones versions of it to be called a Game. From Solo/Co-Op game campaigns to Multiplayer maps for local, LAN and Online Play. From Casual and Competitive. These maps are hard or tricky to make and balance them out if you have 30 different units, player actors (that is what they are called for game coding) and vehicles. Do you make the maps, all, be suited for the players only? Do you make all the maps be suited for vehicles? Do you make them half and half? Do you make them be specialized for only a handful of unit and player types, mirrored? Do you make them be specialized for only a handful of unit and player types, asymmetrical? Do you make them be specialized for all of unit and player types, mirrored? Do you make them be specialized for all unit and player types, asymmetrical? How big should the maps be? All of these are asked for each map and more over for each mode. To be frank, it is on a per dev and per game thing. The weapons follow the same format as well. Balance for a decent but mostly fun game. Bullshit is still bullshit, but that happens in most cases. I am not going into details about the game projects that I have as a passion project as that is still in the works. When I get them to near completion, I will post or talk about them lol Anyways, keep up the good work! Hope this is a bit of an insight for game and balance creations from an Indei dev/gamer.

3:16 Chess is not what you get if you want perfect balance, (Queen OP). Perfect balance gets you Checkers.

You know what makes balancing a game really hard… Underpaying and overworking your rules writers because people will still buy your fomo plastic anyways If GW wanted to have a better game system they could easily accomplish this but they prefer to skate by with barely increasing (and often regressing) levels of bace balance and overall fun Funding for a better game isn’t worth pitching to shareholders when you are essentially a monopoly in the market and you can demonstrate doing it wouldn’t just eat into your profit margin needlessly

A very nuanced look at game balance. Well done! 🙏🏻💙

love the Rimword music playing in the background

Here I am watching a video about balancing rules of a game that I damn know I'm never going to play

As a Custodes fan and player, you’d have to be delusional to say they aren’t directly matched with Harlequins. 19:21

I can appreciate the uneven circles in that venn diagram

6:51 i have a story to describe balance of dice: 5 hellblasters of mine where shooting at basic sisters infantry (10 shots of overcharged plasma) and wounded 9 times. the sisters player failed 7/9 of their saves. this happened twice. in the same game. no hellblasters died to hazardous. what did the sisters do to piss of the dice gods? who knows

@thegrandnope7143

4 ай бұрын

they were playing Sisters of Battle, they're cursed by design and in lore to get their shit rocked

The fun thing is that as a war game balance itself can lend itself to the lore. Like for example when a new faction is introduce it should stand a higher than the existing factions because it implies they observed everyone and made counters to their strengths. Then comes the rebalancing where the old armies adjust, like modifying an existing unit somehow to level the playing field.

I like your work. 👏👏👏👏 Would love to see you do more Battletech content.

Tldr competitive warhammer is a meme because balancing is not priority 1-10 for this game, and the faster the community comes back around to that fact the healthier it will be.

just watched some lorecrimes, And then bam. Pancreasnowork! Its like Eldrad set this up for me.

lol as someone who played alot of chess no even chess is unbalanced. One player going first literally decides the entire meta, whoever goes second has to react to that and play more defensively. its that big a difference tournaments are usually multiple games at the top tables and both play both sides

@Appropriatenamenumbervalid

3 ай бұрын

But you can play aggresively as black

@Duncecap64

3 ай бұрын

@@Appropriatenamenumbervalid aggressive is relative and again that's based entirely on how white chooses to play things like open game Sicilian for example are considered very aggressive fast-paced games however that doesn't mean that black isn't still having to react to the first move that white does just what it chose to react with was a very aggressive move to start with.

@Appropriatenamenumbervalid

3 ай бұрын

fair point.@@Duncecap64

I want a warhammer joke dataslate update where GW changes all factions to be “lore accurate” for a couple of weeks. I:e: eldar get war speed movement across the board. T’au guns have 200” of range. Proper horde armies like the skaven and tyranids can effectively fill the board with units. The basic Guardsmen hit on a Nat20 while custodes hit on anything that isn’t a Nat1. And the leagues of votann are completely unbeatable in every aspect because until there’s lore for them their all canonically primarch levels of powerful.

When they cut the Fate Dice in half, as well as butchered the Phantasm recently I really felt the pain. As well as She Who Thirst's laughter at my dismay.

@ICantThinkOfAFunnyHandle

4 ай бұрын

12 fate dice was miserable to play against, 6 fate dice combined with every other nerf feels like a bit of an overreaction from GW

@trongucang7811

4 ай бұрын

@hinkOfAFunnyHandle while it's true that for any other armies, a nerf of that magnitude would most definitely cripple them, but in the Eldar's case, it might finally make them balanced (and that was after countless nerfs, including core rule changes which ended up crippled several other armies) 10th ed Aeldari index at release was absolutely, mind-bogglingly broken it took that many nerfs to finally rein them in (people still win tournaments with them btw).

Once played a tabletop game where you vould build a caster who would die if they casted a spell that was too powerful. They could have a familiar that could roll the save vs death instead saving the caster but risking a piece of expensive equipment. Then you vould have a defender making a single creature or item unable to die for a turn, once per turn. They changed the rules that match to the defender unable to select magic items in others possession.

Another problem we have is some intern or old GW staff hates certain armies. Aka the (insert unloved child here army). Question what benefit does the psychic keyword give? Oh only against the keyword?

The thing that kinda keeps me from being interested in the tabletop game is that the rules feel like they’re meant for huge games with big units. But the dice rolls and unit sizes are tiny. It almost feels like it’s trying to be different games.

Those rules for Cain and Gotrek need to be a thing.

Thanos would not like tabletop Warhammer.

I've been trying to make a space warship table-top game. Balancing has been immensely difficult, especially with the lance-destroyers. They keep out-ranging ships and the only solution i have is to increase the cost. production has stalled until more people help playtest

@specs.weedle

4 ай бұрын

Good thing you mentioned needing more playtesters on a youtube comment section where potentially interested people might see it. I’d like to try it out.

I played Warhammer 2nd edition in the 80s. I don't remember balance being a major issue, but it had a lot less big monsters and artillery. Its those big, single pieces that are hardest to balance.

One thing that makes 40k horrid at balance is new editions. Every time they start to get close. Kaboom. New edition breaks it all.

Thank you for the video.

I think space marines exceplify the problem between lore and table top the best as shows/book/games paint even a single marine as being able to best a planet or hordes of what ever is thrown at them but on the tabletop an equal point cost of Gaurd, the ones that lore wise are paper sheets to everything else, can kill/beat the equivalent point cost

You make really good points, and it's a pretty fascinating topic, but let's face it, the balance of point values per unit and overall battle point limit is the challenge of army building. Part of the strategy side of the game

You missed an opportunity to say that your patreons "are the balance to your checkbook".

I think the key to this is internal balancing. If you can play any combination of an army’s units without it being bad against everything and not have an indisputable God List in any faction, the balance between factions basically solves itself because you can make a list that can counter the others

I like how OPR handles balancing.

Personally I just try to get good st the game and have fun despite if it unbalanced or not.

4:50 Radar chart with extra info in one area can work. Flourish Studio's what I use for that kind of stuff.

18:05 fun fact, in German, the Knight in chess isn't called the German word for Knight, it's called the Springer. The jumper

0:19 oh I guess they really brought Hanzo back to basics with the last patch

I am one of those people who gets interested in a faction based on rules. I was looking through OPR army builder and noticed that dwarves could have potentially 20 dudes with power fists and I thought that sounded awesome since power fists were A4 AP4. I also got interested in playing Slaaesh daemons because that harp apparently counts as artillery. I want to run a list with at least 3 of them and see what happens.

Nice video !

My main army is orks, and all I know about balance is that I miss looted wagons and being able to mob up :(

20:20 I mean... he's able to body Archaon in both tabletop Fantasy and AoS, that's pretty lore accurate

I think your choice of Topics for a Vid on your day off, was balanced.

Warhammer taught me my favorite playstyle; fast annoying encircling swarms. Even if it's not that useful on tabletop, it usually trips people up when there's like 6 Emperors children with jump packs in each direction

Anther issue is when an Executive decides they want to push a certain faction or model and busts the entire game that just got somewhat balanced

i just noticed the rim world background music

Reminds me of how in Dominions 5 (now 6) there's something like 86 different nations across 3 ages. It's a nightmare but also very satisfying so I don't really mind the obvious imbalances because that nation is most likely to be ganked by 2+ others anyways. (and possibly even come out on top) Makes the world and game interesting. Thankfully if something is busted (Nazca or Mekone for both sides of that spectrum) they usually will do something to bring it in line but are also willing to let things sit for a while.

I’ve developing my own mini wargame(s) for a few years now. One thing I consider when making stats, abilities, and even core rules that you sort of touched on is player shakeenery. “How will an enterprising player break this thing over their knee like Bane?”

Me totally understanding: "Um... yeah!"

"I'd rather have fun than walk a tightrope." This was written on my soul from birth.

Is that rimworld music!? FUCK YEAA

In a competitive scene if people agree that one army has an advantage over others perhaps they should get a points boost vs certain factions so they can bring in one or two tools that might bring them into balance.

Glad you took your "day" off. Still a good video.

Pffftttt nobody ever won a game of Risk by camping the whole game in Australia. It SEEMS like a great idea but it’s not because the first player who has a little empire will rush you and kill the like 38 armies you’ve gathered in Indonesia

I think it would be fun to have games that aren’t balanced. Just take a force of ultramarines and throw a horde of irks at them and see how long we can make the ultramarines last

You gonna give your opinion on the Old World Tabletop rules soon?

"And there go the beginner ranked players, fighting to the death over 4 extra armies" - said in every single open rank online Risk game.