Quite honestly, I learned more about Balance Cats in Toby’s “abbreviated” tour than any of the factory videos I’ve watched! As always, Toby giving us neophytes all the technical info in layman’s terms. Bravo! Come on lotto numbers!

@yachtingworld

Жыл бұрын

Thank you Christopher!

I sincerely cannot thank you enough for this tour. You used a camera with a proper lense and appropriate angle. The audio was clear, crisp and even. You did the entire thing with little to no cuts. You panned the camera to allow us to see exactly what your talking about (with the minor exception to the guest shower); however, as you said you've already done a full walkthrough before. You gave us angles of her no one else will. You explained exactly what you were looked at and why it mattered. Finally, you stated the price and the cost as she was, why people don't do this I'll never know but thank you! Job well done sir.

@yachtingworld

10 ай бұрын

Thank you for the kind words - that is really appreciated! Toby

even without any performance conditions, just hearing the sound of it moving gently along the water must be a nice day of sailing. cool boat and i really like the layout/setup. the dual helm setup for bad weather feels very smart.

4 knots in 6 knts apparent - _THE_ multi-hull advantage!

@1corinthians15.1-4kjv

Жыл бұрын

Really? A 65ft MacGregor pilot house, which sells for 100k US Dollars or even less, a 30-35 year old monohul, can do the same. You are welcome!

Thanks Toby. Love the boat. Thanks for a superbly informative and informed quick overview. Hope you can get on one in more wind.

@yachtingworld

9 ай бұрын

Thanks 👍

I don't think the solar panels on the roof are "insulated". The big thing is that they: 1) Are of the rigid type which have higher output per area unit compared to the flexible variant. And: 2) That there is airflow underneath them as you pointed out. That increases their output since they are kept at a lower temperature than they otherwise would be at...

@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665

Жыл бұрын

The latest slimmed down silicon PV pannels are flexible ie will roll loosely and have the same output.. and are less prone to crystal cracking... because they're thinner ...they use less material so lighter and cheaper. 🤞🏼 The next step is to compound weld them with a organic molecule as they have at cambridge uni after 3d printing the layer on top.. This boosts the conversion of near infra red light into Si usable blue light energy...result. 30% boost to whatever area of treated panel. Keeping them cool and harvesting the huge volumes of heat by using HPV panels is still where existing Si based pannels fitted to RVs and boats should go ..to power water heating/storage and or energy generation by heat pumps or im waiting for someone to try a small stirling engine as an aux generator fuel ⛽ free option. Impressive alternator outputs .. we are getting closer to the compact hybrid power systems... leave the mechanical drive to the electric motors at 97% silent efficiency and run the multifuel ICE backup on any fuel. Plus you get regen under sail. Toby.... Could you look into the situation with the supply of Basalt fibers for boat building in Europe.. Carbons too expensive very un green and as recent events may have highlighted prone to sudden impact catastrophic failures. I know Windelo use it but the. Russia and Ukraine were big suppliers. And Mafic the Irish based source has been bought out and moved to the US. Its a material that would help a lot of people wanting to build and repair/improve their existing boats.. but its hard tracking down uk/European sources of building material.🤔🧙‍♂️⛵ Then theres all the other composite alternatives being developed to get away from the GRP and Carbon fiber pollution and hidden costs problems. Correction it is university of Texas Austin where they have developed the energy spectrum shifting organic and silicon compound.

@angela1984a

Жыл бұрын

@@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665 Are you talking about that Titan submersible here?

@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665

Жыл бұрын

@@angela1984a That one the verdict is very much out on ...till some proof either way. The fact the front was a titanium half dome doesnt exactly inspire confidence. Given differentials of expansion and contraction.. Im not a fan of materials that suddenly and catastrophically fail. Real world tech equipment gets miss handled, dropped bumped ..left out in the sun....and exposed to unpredictable combinations of variables as well as good old human failings. But from seeing carbon component failures/ crashes and reading about the way its failed in prosthetic legs when it goes it goes very dramatically, sometimes in more than one place. The other point is Carbon fiber has a very high environmental impact/ production cost and the raw materials are very much a direct Product of fossil fuels. The whole vacuum bagging infusion methodology result in tons of single use plastics being used In composites construction is also an issue, forward looking manufacturers and customers are begining to look at alternatives. Though this is nothing new as some GRP sandwich hull constructors developed some notable alternatives early on. Interestingly basalt is used to produce hull moulds for high end racers because its more stable and resistant to abrasion and shock impacts ... Mix it with hemp or Linen and you can produce parts that are within 5%wt of carbon but more resilient. The fact that the RM Pure range of high end electric ribs use this in their hulls points to its ability to resist repeated groundings and impacts involved in marshaling regattas etc. They also use a rim driven centerless retractable drive .

@LoanwordEggcorn

9 ай бұрын

@@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665 ​ @angela1984a Very briefly using Carbon fiber for a submarine is an inappropriate use of materials. Carbon fibers are strong in tension and relatively much weaker in compression. A submarine is subject to compressive forces. Therefore it's the wrong material for a sub. Carbon for boats is ok, but fiber reinforced plastic composites in general aren't great for the environment. Basalt fiber is cool, but about the same strength as S-glass, so not a great improvement at about double the cost of fiberglass. Plus it still has the problem of needing plastics. Stirling engine efficiency is single digit percent so not really useful. Also works better with higher temperatures, which a heat pump won't give. Actively cooling solar panels and/or using the heat for something useful is a good idea, but probably not worth the added complexity. Which is why no one does it on boats as far as I've heard. Heat pumps are a great idea for homes or boats, and a boat has an ideal heat sink/source in the ocean/water it floats on.

The more cats I see, the more convinced I become of the forward centre cockpit floor plan as a good alternative. So many lines running across the roof, along the sides etc. Lovely boat indeed, not a criticism just a comment.

@LoanwordEggcorn

9 ай бұрын

If you mean the forward helm like Chris White designs, agree. It also has great visibility forward and is well protected against the weather, at least in Chris' designs. This boat seems to have very well managed and maintainable running rigging. No lines in tunnels.

Thanks again from Canada, another awesome job Toby.

@yachtingworld

11 ай бұрын

Thank you!

Wow, amazing boat, thank you !

Egads. They broke the ‘no hard suitcases on a sailboat’ rule!

Excellent review. Thanks for your attention to detail

i hope can buy this catamaran

Groovy sailboat.

Toby, I like to see you review of a Balance 526!

I am increasingly being drawn to a performance CAT for long term aboard sailing. What a pity there was so little wind. Pop over the pond when she is on the other side Tony and do a video. If you are too busy I will volunteer for a small fee and a return ticket.😀

@angela1984a

Жыл бұрын

One big advantage with a performance multihull is the amount of boat speed you can get in light wind conditions. If they were on a condomaran like a Lagoon instead - would they have been sailing at all or just bobbing around?...

@1corinthians15.1-4kjv

Жыл бұрын

@@angela1984a You know that for a fact, out of own experience or just because the sailing experts tell you so? Well, I do not know anything about Lagoon, but FP 50 Saba, a very popular charter catamaran, has easily clocked above 20 knots speeds and has in many occasions done full Atlantic crossings in 200 miles days in average. Show me a performance catamaran, which can outperform that! Please! Here is the next thing, which people like for instance Seth, "The President of HH", is not telling you: All performance catamarans and indeed also trimarans has a lot less tolerance in their load caring abilities, before that promised performance goes out the window. To be precise, a cruising hull is always wider and can carry more load, before the performance diminish, than is the case on a performance catamaran. This means, in real life, when you load a performance catamaran with all your gear, provisioning, diesel and water and toys and so fort, that performance is at the slowest cruising catamaran level anyway. The comical thing is, Seth and his family even owns an Outremer 52 and in a video he even plainly admitted, that his family cruising loaded performance catamaran did not perform at all, but still that same jerk, and many like him, troll the internet to advice people like you to pay a premium for a performance catamaran. You are welcome!

@angela1984a

Жыл бұрын

@@1corinthians15.1-4kjv What do you have against Seth?… I watched some of those Sailing Family Vids and IMO he seems like a decent enough bloke… Are you referring to that red Outremer 51 Archer here? Didn’t they sell that boat? And in what video did he admit to that? I do remember them ’racing’ Sailing Zatara’s Privelege 585 from Haiti(?) to Australia. And their Outremer did win that ’race’ - didn’t it?… And yes - I don’t have any personal sailing experience, so everything I’m writing here is based on my own as well as others understanding of physics. So why am I writing this? Because I prefer a world where people _sail_ instead of motor around by burning fossil fuels. It is as simple as that. And finally: Yes. Weight will of course impact displacement and wetted surface area. You would guess that someone that is contemplating dropping ~0,3-1+ million USD on a boat would take that into the equation, but hey - what do I know right… ;-)

Dual mainsheet vs traveler? (ts:5:22) The dual mainsheet is simple and robust, but is it perhaps a bit more clunky to use? If you had a choice, would you opt for it or would you always prefer a traveler?

@mtrezaie

Жыл бұрын

I would go for traveler any day. But maybe it is my personal preference.

@TerjeDahlT

Жыл бұрын

Reading up on the subject, I see one can actually have a "bridle" setup that acts as a traveler: Instead of the sheet being attached to a car that runs on a track, you attach it to a block that runs along a line. And then you also have additional lines which controls the position of the block, just as you would with a car. That way you would still have the more or less detachable setup shown on this Balance, but with standard separation of sheet and car control. But I suppose for the Balance, running the traveler control lines up to the winches is a lot messier than the double sheets german style.

@LoanwordEggcorn

9 ай бұрын

The dual mainsheets seems like a more elegant solution. Simpler to rig, no traveler to wear or fail, far fewer deck penetrations, and is fully prevented at all times, upwind or downwind. It's basically like a 3-d sheet lead for a mainsail boom. You can use it to adjust angle of attack, twist, depth, etc.

Great video and cool boat! I’m never going to buy a brand new cat so I guess it doesn’t matter, but I would be really interested to see a forward cockpit design from Balance.

@bigbopper143

Жыл бұрын

You've missed the whole point of the Versa Helm 😂😂😂

@jackjmaheriii

Жыл бұрын

I know it’s the centerpiece of Balance, but it’s kind of a gimmick and the least interesting part of the brand. I’d rather have one excellent work station than two compromised versions. Even now, conventional dual helms are on their way out because they’re an unnecessary holdover from monohulls. In 5 years everyone in the live aboard space is going to have in-salon options.

@bigbopper143

Жыл бұрын

@@jackjmaheriii The design of this brand is centered around cruising couples who require the saloon to be dry and free of ropes and rigging. The versa helm isn't a gimmick at all and increasing sales of Balance Catamarans prove this beyond doubt.

@jackjmaheriii

Жыл бұрын

HH and Gunboat disagree. Those brands too racy for you? Then Leopard, Windelo, and Bali disagree. Balance makes a premium product, Burman is as thoughtful as they come. But the fact of the matter is, the whole segment is moving their wheels forward and Balance is lagging a bit in this area.

@angela1984a

Жыл бұрын

@@jackjmaheriii HH seems to be doing both forward and more conventionally placed helms... See the new 52 for example. And Outremer isn't doing forward helms.

Is it performance catamaran? What’s expecting speed at 20 TWS?

@angela1984a

Жыл бұрын

I'm guessing Balance could provide polars and a ballpark estimate for your second question.

@LoanwordEggcorn

9 ай бұрын

@@angela1984a Yes, they have polars.

The only thing I really know about sailing is stretching both sides of the mouth with your index fingers and saying: ‘I was born on a pirate ship.’

Terrifying trip line hazard @07:47 That has to be corrected or one day someone somewhere is going to trip on that and go overboard. Nightmare.

Why do you quote the amp hours of the battery because it's meaningless unless you also quote the volts? Why not just quote the capacity in kilowatt hours?

@davidellis2021

Жыл бұрын

@@Marco81323 There are lots of 24v systems. There will soon be some 48v systems.

@davidellis2021

Жыл бұрын

@@Marco81323 Lots of lithium installations use actual 24v batteries. I think he just doesn't know/understand and is just repeating what he's told. To be fair to Toby he does do good boat reviews, but I wish people would stop quoting amp hours. I'm sure you're right that they're 12v batteries - probably. But in any case kilowatt hours are much more relevant to battery capacity. To my knowledge the only car manufacturer which quotes amp hours for electric cars is BMW, and I think even they have given that up.

@LoanwordEggcorn

9 ай бұрын

Most boats use 12 Volt systems, so that's implicit. Agree kilowatt hours can be more useful.

It's a shame they seldom sail in wind.

@gps831coast

Жыл бұрын

I've seen some promotional videos under sail with engine running. Fake fast

@angela1984a

Жыл бұрын

Kind of difficult to have wind speed on demand - no?...

Very nice boat, increasingly I do not like the helm position though, which have some obvious downsides. The main one being, that in bad weather conditions after sunset, light has to be off in the entire living accommodation above, cockpit, galley, dining area and all, or the captain will be incapable of looking out at all and would steer blind. In the tropics that could be 12 hours every single day. I don't even know, why people has not brought up that very obvious fault in the design. The only multihul design for a cockpit, that I have seen so far, which has no obvious downside to it, is the Windelo take on the forward cockpit helm position. I don't like the HH take on it either though, because they have gone back to the obvious drawbacks in the original Chris White design, which is, that all of the forward living accommodation is taken to be one big indoor helm position and still they got to run out in the exposed forward cockpit, when they need to adjust the sail plan. Basically, those boats got one huge compromised living space as a result, just as this Balance design got, but for other reasons.

@LoanwordEggcorn

9 ай бұрын

Most passagemaking is done on autopilot, and most people dim the salon lights at night. Every helm location has different compromises. Chris White's forward helms are so far inboard from the gunwales that they're very well protected from most of the weather. Most people don't change sails or even tack or jibe very often on long passages. Tacks can last hundreds of miles. Actually changing a headsail requires going onto the foredeck regardless of where the helm is. Things like a sock for dousing an asymmetrical spinnaker can be managed from the cockpit.

$1.4 million, sheesh

The saloon looks too small and spartan for me. I like the overall hull layouts though and that helm, well, it's helm porn!

Cool boat, although the no flush hatches policy, makes the entire lineup look very dated...

They used the space in a strange way, I don't like these raised beds at all, I understand that they used the shape of the hull and put a bed on that part and used storage under it, but again I have the feeling that on other catamarans of the same length, maybe the video is deceiving me, the space layout is better A big plus is the cockpit with helm adjustment

@LoanwordEggcorn

9 ай бұрын

Athwartships berths are pretty common.

Why do 99% of the cruising cats look like ugly lorries?

For that money you could buy a Seawind 1260 and have enough money to cruise for the rest of your life.

The boat looks unfinished. It resembles something done for presentation purposes by a naval arch.

@angela1984a

Жыл бұрын

Looks like any other modern cat to me. What's different with this interior compared to those on Outremers for example?... Also: The interior finishes on these boats are pretty much customizable. If you have they coin they will build whatever interior your heart desires.

@LoanwordEggcorn

9 ай бұрын

I find the interior design to be clean and modern. I am one of the many people who like that. Understand people have different tastes.

Ugh. Another silly Catamaran. I can't stand the Bucking Bronco Corkscrew Motion of the damned things in not infrequent wave Conditions and frequencies. It doesn't seem to affect Trimarans, but Reviewers never seem to mention this truly awful Flaw with two hulls. 🤔😡

@angela1984a

Жыл бұрын

And some people can't stand the way monohulls roll in certain anchorages...

@brownnoise357

Жыл бұрын

@@angela1984a Not generally a problem with a good displacement monohull with a decent below the waterline Hull design, but a fair point. some are too light and have slammy flat bottomed hulls, generally those overemphasised for Sailboat Racing rather than Cruising. I did get rather intrigued by Catamarans after the adventures Rosie Swales had with one. I liked Catamarans, but rapidly found out they hated me. So tried a Trimaran, and all the Catamaran issues simply disappeared, and I almost bought one, but thankfully did a deep dive into the Cost of Ownership, and tbh, it also applies very much to Catamarans, and I simply didn't have that much money to chuck away every single year, plus issues li,e being unable to get a Marina Erth when needed, and easy access to Haulouts at reasonable cost Annualy, as I'm a stickler for annual Haulouts, for full inspections and full Servicing to keep everything on the boat happy, including me, there are no excuses Not to be done with a Monohull. One guy just bought a Catamaran, and it hadn't been out of the water for 15 years ! How typical is that of Catamaran owners ? Hopefully Not Very. The other thing I really don't like with a lot of Sailboats, including Monohulls, but appears to be Far worse with Catamarans, is the huge amount of Plywood used in their Construction. Plywood = Termite City Restaurant.If looking to Sail the Tropucs, Florida, Caribbean, Mediterranean, etc, do you really want to have your Boat Eaten out from under you ? There is a builder of Monohull Boats who recognises just how serious the Problem is, Not one atamaran Builder is, as far as I'm aware. Island Packet had so many Owners with Termite Problems, they now build Termite Proof Boats. Guess which Boatbuilder is building my next Sailboat? Best Wishes and Fair Winds. Bob. 👍⛵️✨️✨️✨️

@angela1984a

Жыл бұрын

@@brownnoise357 AFAIK Balance and Outremer don't use plywood in their construction. But yeah... Performance multihulls are pricey...

@1corinthians15.1-4kjv

Жыл бұрын

@@brownnoise357 Alubat?

@1corinthians15.1-4kjv

Жыл бұрын

Well, the good sailing experts, should I say honest, all will concur, that all boats got compromises and also therefore downsides. There is many things to consider, when you want to buy a boat. I would love to own a catamaran or trimaran, exactly for the amount of space and stability at anchor, and that is because my dream is to sail the tropics and I know, that 90% of the time cruisers spend at anchor anyway. I am however a Dane and here in Northern Europe all together multihuls are absolutely useless, especially because there is not that many calm anchorages and many marinas do simply not accommodate multihuls at all or they will pay the premium, if they can even find docking. Another thing is, in a multihul you can kiss goodbye to much of the archipelago sailing and all the canal sailing in Northern Europe. Therefore the only multihul, which are build here or indeed sold here in some numbers are boats like the Danish Dragonfly, a trimaran with foldable outriggers, so that they can be docked at a monohul space. I don't enjoy keeling much in a boat, by the way, so that is also another thing for me, which would favor a multihul in my dreams for sure. I have been a commercial fisherman on the North Sea and I can tell you, when a boat keels, you can not do much, just sit there hanging on for dear life really. Not fun at all!

Hatches really ruin the exterior look...especially for a boat of this cost. Disappointing for sure.