In all fairness, immortality is the kind of spell that you only need to cast once

I love when chat tries to nitpick baumi and he gets all sassy

but baumi, invoker can invoke 10 spells. it reads that as a kid he knew 10 spells minimum then started purging them from his mind and the immortality spell was among them.

8:45 Valve didn't know what exactly to do with talents at the start, but figured it out over time. I hope that applies to innates and facets as well...

@Green13Gaming

Ай бұрын

some heroes got screwed by facets and inates, like kotl, who either gets solar bind or relocate, relocate being his old shard

@KitsuneFaroe

Ай бұрын

​@@Green13Gamingrelocate got really buffed though.

@Green13Gaming

Ай бұрын

@@KitsuneFaroe it still sucks compared to the other facet all kotls are, is the regular ability solar bind and the old ags shard, he didn't get anything, but I think that this is the case for a few heroes, I'm sure valve is just trying something new and will flesh out the facets as time goes on

We heard you liked attacks, so we put attacks in your attacks so you can attack while you attack

@IExistSometimes

Ай бұрын

I can't tell if gunslinger and bash attacks are correctly triggering double trouble, because I'm doing some maths and I think this should be going infinite but it doesn't look like it is, it looks like it's high but finite (though this might be because of jakiro's slow projectile speed)

The moment I saw the change I knew arcade and ability draft would have so much fun with my boy

My buzzword of the day is distill. I think my favorite innates distill a hero's most unique characteristic into a simple ability that the hero's playstyle and other abilities can ping off of. Thus making the hero more unique, and the other abilities more straightforward. Also I like what someone said "facets are level 1 talents."

just skimmed over invoker's lore. stuff in quotation are what dota fandom wrote exactly. "He could command no fewer than ten spells" -> at least 10 spells. Most spells he learned(probably all of them other than the spells he has in dota) he "would practice then purge from his mind forever" Mentioned immediately after the one above was the longevity spell pointing it out as "one such spell", which means he used the immortality spell once and forgot it immediately. (It is also in the forgotten spells tab of the spells section of invoker's lore) No mention of what the 10th spell is. I still think it is invoke even though the more I read further the more the lore says it isn't. Edit: I'm stupid, just read another comment here saying invoker does have 10 spells he uses in dota, three for each for quas, wex, and exort then the 10th is deafening blast.

If I recall correctly invoker has learned and forgotten hundreds of spells in his life time as he just needed to cast them once and be done with them, with the immortality spell being one of them. Cuz invoker does have 10 spells he uses in Dota 2, 3 in all his flavors and then deafening blast.

On the note of the windrunner ultimate, I would expect that its projectiles would trigger the double-trouble etc only when one of them hits an enemy and becomes an attack (as happens with maelstrom), unless it disables normal attacks while it's going, in which case I imagine mothing would happen.

my head cannon on the invoker quas wex and exort being a spell is more like that their an incantation step he made to remember multiple spells. He optimised his spells to be caterrozied into three components and those are quas wex and exort. hence the invoke step being required to use the actual spells.

The silencer could make an improvisation by replacing gust with new crippling fear's aghs where the ability becomes a toggle ability

Medusa is not objectionable to me for the level 0 mana shield, but most others are, and another innate would probably be cooler I think. You are right that having to pick mana shield level one isn't a bad thing, though it would certainly weaken medusa, but that isn't a bad thing necessarily. But Geminate Attack for instance doesn't define weaver, and should not be the innate at all. It's a decent attack modifier that works well with strafing and kiting, but it doesn't define weaver, it merely fits with weaver's defining abilities. Weaver is defined by mobility and difficulty in being tracked. Both shukuchi and time lapse do this, and I suppose level 0 shukuchi wouldn't be bad, but I can think of better. Increased mobility at high health for instance is a basic but fitting idea. Encouraging indirect engagement as weaver always has and boosting weaver's best and most vital trait: mobility, while stressing that weaver suffers from getting caught out. I think an Innate should always provide not what a hero is missing, but what a hero does well already. Level 0's often provide an early game advantage that no hero really had before, by having two abilities at level one, but medusa received significant drawbacks to that advantage that kind of negate it, making her not as problematic for me. Other heroes often don't have that.

@DragN_H3art

Ай бұрын

I initially thought they could make Weaver get Haste when Invis, but that is probably way too broken...

i think valve still works on these facets and innate. some heroes like wk and bara really had interesting facets, which makes their gameplay different. and i think innates shouldnt be anability such as bara//ww/oracle etc

Village sorcerer academy: you could become immortal, or, you know, CAST A FIREBALL! Its a really awesome fireball, or some puny eternity of longevity. (then they rofl about those who fell for it)

Yo Dawg, I heard you like attacking, so we put attacks in your attacks so you can attack while attacking.

well isn't invoker genius is also because he can also summon meteor, tornado sunstrike wall of ice and all big spell making him the fearsome enemy

Rubick don’t steal spells. He literally learn them from watching someone casting it, but If he want learn another spell he have to forgot the previous 🤣

If I remember correctly, the Quas, Wex, and Exort are basically mnemonic devices to help him recall the spells, and because MAGIC they actually empower him?

i would say meteor is on the same general level as immortality if hes actually pulling it from space and not just conjuring a burning rock in the sky.

34:10 RadiantWisp: passive soul suck is the title

Tbh, this patch is fun and kinda refreshing. make me and my friends happy and want to play more. this patch make me enjoy dota once again like when i play dota for the first time. And idc if it’s good or not, if im enjoying it, it’s good enough for me.

Its really funny to me that despite being called Invoker and ostensibly being the mega smartiest wizard ever, he actually only performs Evocation and has not been witnessed invoking a single fucking thing

Sick artillery build

Bro needed side gunner

I 100% agree with that facets/innate/talent/shard/aghs diferetiation. In my opinion: Innate: extra ability, active or passive, that have only 1 lvl (=cant be skilled up) and the hero always have it (it may also scale with hero lvl) Facets: two versions of an ability that the hero already have, the ability should be still recognisible, but it may work slightly different with each facet Talet: just "boring" stat upgrade of an ability - more dmg, lower cd, extra cast range... nothing new, only the stuff the ability already have gets upgraded a bit Shard: new effect on one ability - talents makes the abity do the same stuff a bit better, shard makes the ability to do something different, something "more" Aghs: powerful upgrade of an ability (have to be much stronger then shard) or completly new ability for the hero (have to be much stronger the innate)

They should have made the facets function as wholly separate heroes. That could have made it easier for custom games.

Speaking of powercreep. Dota is surprisingly suffering from it with each patch. Originaly you had stats (prerework) 4 abilities and scepter that upgraded ultimate for some heroes. Then they added talents, then they reworked stats so that they give more things, then they added shard which gives/upgrades an ability and now facets and innates which literally means a hero has at least 5 abilities and either an upgrade to one or just straight up 6, without even taking shard/scepter into account.

Imagine this build with marksmanship and fury swipes

"fireballs are as difficult to invoke as immortality" Maybe cuz the spell demands to be in a spherical shape, which would need a lot of focus cuz fire is a very chaotic element that tends to try and consume the air to keep itself going, but then looks like it's just spreading outward... Mana is its fuel, and the air keeps the combustion going. Finally, if that's the case, how come Lina just throws them like they're easy to make? Is it because she holds a much greater affinity to fire than pretty much any other "mage" in dota?

@dom7899

Ай бұрын

one thing most seem to glance over is that his "fireball" is a literal meteor not just a small ball of fire, his sunstrike is a blast of plasma from the sun. would also point out that most heroes in dota only have 1~2 "spells" since not all abilities are spells (like spear of mars is literally just him throwing his spear for example, or for literally all PAs abilities are all physical feats) with "accomplished" mages only knowing 4~5 spells

Not getting maelstorm with this early on made me feel uncomfortable xD

was there a whops sound edited in?

Admittedly, a spell called Chaos Meteor wouldve probably eaten someone's immortality with 1 cast

Double head goddamnit

Next patch Medusa will start with Mana Shield and the other mana stealing thing I forgot the name. Because you always level it up first.

We need the like-ad from miki again, that was soo funny, didnt expect her at all and she just says "Like the Video, motherfcker" 😂

No bloodthorn is crazy

Rich of you to say that, how many spells do YOU know?

26:11 What have you been looking at online Baugette-San?

My propose is to give passive abilities like fury swipes, or witchcraft, or jinada, or greate cleave into innate abilities, then scepter that upgrade ultimates, then shard that take upgrade abilities, then aspects which gives you new abilities and finaly talents which improve existing abilities or ultimate. For example: kunka: innate tidebringer, instead of tidebringer you get tidal wave, then scepter give you fleet (3 ships), shard improve torrent make it torrent storm. Then everything is sounds logical and right?

@VasiliyOgniov

Ай бұрын

On the other hand, Torrent and Storm are two very different abilities. One is pretty precise AOE stun which synergises with his mark, and the other is essentially a second ultimate with insane crowd control potential. You can't just go and swap one with another, because they both are useful in different scenarios. Also, "passives as innates" wouldn't work for heroes with multiple passives like Leoric, PA (previously), Anti-Mage or PL. One could argue that this is a bad design, but I actually don't mind them. Not to mention that it would be straight-up copying the homework from League by this point. I personally think that we already have some sort of consistency. Its not as strict, as Boomi suggested, but at least for me its there. Like "Scepter is a big upgrade, Shard is a small upgrade, Innate is a suggestion of playstyle, Fascet is a role/abulity choice, Talents are Fascet on the go" its not 100% accurate, obviously, but that's the jist of it

@vladdarkcat8682

Ай бұрын

​@@VasiliyOgniov, for us who played 4 K hours it is obvious, but for new player it looking strange why the same upgrades doing the different kind of stuff andd whete the developers logic andd how new player should remember all this stuff

he didn't know soul suck gave him hp. jesus,..

About the lvl1 abilities ingames, LoL already gets rid of the choice between abilities for some characters. Zeri and Azir are characters that can't realy function as a playable character if their Q or W ability is leveld up respectively. I agree with you, but i think your example was not very good. Anyways, keep it up with the great content, Baumi!!! S2

does jakairos damage malus affect procs like mjolner or headshot damage?

@MashThat5A

Ай бұрын

Yes. It also works with bloodthorn

But in dota he invokes 10 abilities though, not 9?..

34:45 Invoker has 10 invokable spells (QQQ, QQW, QQE, WWW, WWQ, WWE, EEE, EEQ, EEW, QWE), not 9. Then orbs + Invoke (4 more spells) and Cataclysm (Aghanim's Scepter uprage for Sunstrike) could be considered (and probably should) another spell. I wouldn't consider an EMP upgrade (by Aghanim's Shard) as a separate spell. So I would say he knows 15 (or 11) spells at total that he can use in Dota 2. Then there are the spells from his lore like the Immortality spell.

@nightcaller92

Ай бұрын

I would say that Quas, Wex, and Exort aren't so much spells in the same way as all the invokable spells, but just ingredients for the spells, the same way you'd gather ingredients for a meal. Similarly, I think Invoke is just the act of mixing those ingredients into a cohesive spell, like the act of actually cooking the meal

Man.. Now we'll never know what Soul suck does

Would have liked to see lightnings with tons of attacks😢

If you suck at Jakiro, your enemies get Double Head

i think innates should reflect the core idea of the hero, their *shtick* So the innates that skill one ability at level 0 are fine, it's just that Valve kinda spammed them without thinking Like, i'd argue that Rubick's innate should be level 0 of Spell Steal, that would be awesome Invo could get his whole arsenal at level 1, since he's the gigamage, and his lvl 1 stats would limit his ability to abuse that anyway i'd also really love stuff like OD's Essence Flux being remade into an unupgradeable passive that he just constantly has, while his Actual passive gets replaced by fun stuff like Osmosis There's also a case to be made about stat-related innates, like: Medusa's innate being 0 str Ogre's innate being 0 int Tiny's innate being 0 agi Before they came up with Universal heroes, they could've made Void Spirit the only Universal hero with his innate

try huskar with Storm ult. his skill cant kill him and u can use skill with 1 hp

The ability limit has been pushing custom games to their limits for a long time, but soon that will also apply to normal Dota.

in the case with centaur retaliate, u attack him with around 60 damage each time and he deals more retaliate more damage than u. which mean even though u are using satanic it didn't life steal much due to low damage and since u are constantly attacking him, his damage is greater than your life steal. low damage high attack speed satanic heal less than high damage low attack speed.

it sucks to forget about soul suck

Should have bought mkb that build deals soo much dmg

Baumi!!! How the tf do you play Legends of Dota?? It’s been out of service for a year or more!!

If only baumi buy upgraded witch blade :)

Invoker know more spells but because of that he was dying so he had give a lot of places in his mind for the immortality spell to not die

baumi respecting venomancer's gender for pride month i see

Nooo splitshooot? *Megamind face*

i mean the reason why medusa needs special treatment is because she gets special _distreatment_ with her whopping 120 base health and 0 natural strength. that doesn't just make her special among her fellow heroes, that makes her special next to _almost every other unit in the game._ you might be able to compare some level 1 heroes to a player-controlled lane creep, but comparing medusa to a creep, even the humble dark troll skeleton summon, is an absolutely _scathing_ insult to that poor lil creep and frankly just makes you seem like some anti-creep bigot. it'd be less insensitive to compare 'em to some dried animal droppings, because even literal shit is closer to the durability of a neutral summon than medusa! like, just imagine. you're playing naga or alch or whatever, and you just finished up your radiance. you hop into the jungle, and which would you rather see: the normal jungle camps, or every creep replaced with a medusa with no mana shield? trick question, if it was the latter all you would see is empty camps and the giant pile of gold you're now mysteriously sitting on, because all those medusas would fry before they even entered your vision range i'm honestly kinda surprised you even approached the topic from that angle, because mana shield is one of the few innates that actually _feels_ like it has to be an innate. like, a lot of the new innates are just kinda random passives that could function as skilled abilities as shitty as the ones from the olden days of dota, and even the og innate ability that is stone remnant could be something earth spirit has to blow a skill point on after waddling around level 1 with a shit q or w. but mana shield? dumb luck? blood magic? those alter fundamental, _innate_ rules of how heroes and even units in general work in dota 2. like, mana shield might differ from the other two in that it doesn't _technically_ flat-out remove a stat from medusa, but this iteration of it was introduced in tandem with the complete remove of her natural strength, so the intent and design is pretty clear. medusa's mana pool is, for all intents and purposes, also her health pool, and while you _can_ buy items to give her an actual health buffer? it doesn't change the fact that you're tossing away gold to get something that literally every other hero gets by _being level 1_ and gets even more just by leveling up to me, it's kinda like asking why an ability that makes a hero's autos use ammo and forces 'em to reload after using it all up, or an ability that sets a hero's movement speed to 0 permanently but can be used as an innate blink, or etc. etc. is given for free at level 1. because, like, why _would_ you skill an ability that makes you literally unable to move without mobility spells? why would you make your hero disarm themselves after a set amount of attacks? sure, there's probably some _benefit_ to doing so to balance out the loss of such fundamental capabilities, but wouldn't you try to delay needing to skill that type of stuff as long as possible so that you don't have to play around the drawbacks 'til they're relevant? innate abilities might give heroes free power out of nowhere, but they also mean they're _forced_ to go through whatever hoops that power is locked behind. there's no avoiding it. that type of innate means the corresponding hero plays differently from the rest of the cast, even without any abilities skilled, and that is always something fascinating

your suggestion about cohesion is interesting, but I think it comes to problems balance-wise. I think right now it's like "this change/new ability is worth around 1400 gold, so we put it on the shard. This change is worth around 4200 gold, so we put it on the aghs.", and similar behaviour is applied to talents and stuff like that - the devs consider when you would reach that power shift and how much you should "pay" for it and then balance around it. While that's not the most cohesive thing, forcing the cohesion you're talking about onto the system doesn't take balance into account at all. And I'd rather have a balanced game than a super cohesive one.

Baumi forgets to suck...souls. Silly build.

so youre basically a boomer

Second 2

Press like if you skill W on level 1 Venge.