"Being a good scientist, I changed a lot of things at once." YES, my new motto!

@routtookc8064

6 жыл бұрын

I love some good nerd jokes.

@urrick33333

6 жыл бұрын

yeah that was very funny

@loganthesaint

6 жыл бұрын

I’m not even close to scientist status and I love it also.

@RustyPetterson

6 жыл бұрын

I don't know or care about the subject matter of this video, but as usual I love them anyway because of humour like that. Brilliant!

@tablatronix

6 жыл бұрын

Its called variable optimization!

Three videos in a week **** yeah!

The idea of the diode action is intriguing, I'll have to check that out on my Aerowave. When I told a welder friend that I had a TIG machine with 32 knobs and switches, he replied he didn't know any welders that could count to 32. I'm not sure I can anymore.

Haha, love it! "Being a good scientist I changed a lot of things at once". Sometimes I do wonder nowadays.

@DCFusor

6 жыл бұрын

I'm a scientist and I'm sometimes guilty of that one. It often results in holes in my foot. Hey mon, I'm a holy man now!

Glad you did this video, helps de-mystify some of those tig adjustments. It would be super helpful to match up the various wave configurations on the scope with the metal being worked on: e.g. aluminum vs. bronze etc. and talk about why certain metals require different configurations.

Thank God it wasn't a tumah.

@piotrnod6489

6 жыл бұрын

x\D

@gregfeneis609

6 жыл бұрын

Or a 3ma

@TheDutchGuy110

6 жыл бұрын

only try to realize the truth... There is no bathroom

"Being a good scientist, I changed a lot of things at once." I need more people on this earth with your sense of humor, Tony. I'm gonna be randomly breaking into giggle-fits because of that line for days.

I like how you own your mistake and don't just sweep it under the rug. One thing about documenting mistakes is that other people might learn from them, no matter how "dumb" they may seem.

@johnpossum556

6 жыл бұрын

Mistakes ARE the best teachers. That's why Ave has a bunch of _teaching videos._

Would be curious to see what the old welder shows up as with the new setup. Maybe 4 videos in one week??? One can only dream :D

I got nothing important... Hey that square wave looks like Batman...

@GeneSimonalle

6 жыл бұрын

That's all I could see to. The Dark Knight is a welder?

@elitearbor

6 жыл бұрын

He went way overboard on safety gear, and somehow forgot goggles. And a cape? I worry that it would catch on something. Can't be OSHA approved.

@ssgee1

6 жыл бұрын

I was just going to say the same thing

@TheAmpair

6 жыл бұрын

Batman? Batgirl maybe?

@MiggyManMike

6 жыл бұрын

He's the welder we deserve, but not the one we need right now.

Hi Tony. Glad you got it worked out. Electronic tech of sorts here. One thing your demonstrations shows, cooking off your torch tip... You are demonstrating the reinvention of the electron wheel. Essentially, the reason for DC straight and reverse polarity. While cooking your tungsten that arc would be handling light gauge sheet metal as tenderly as lotion on a baby's butt. Increasing the frequency will be your tool to avoiding cooking off tip or material, at the respective lack of penetration. Remember your arc welding 101. DC reverse=highest possible penetration. DC straight=electrode melts and turns red while puddles form on top of that thick plate. But you are on track. Looks like a very handy torch you just need to familiarize yourself with and how it acts on what materials. Just keep in mind preserving the tungsten or work material will always come at the cost of lack of penetration.

@1:50 The humps in your waveform (Batman's Ears) are from "ringing" in the coils of the inverter. When you change the current flowing through an inductor the collapse of the magnetic field gives you spikes like that. Trivia: This is how an old points-and-coil ignition system worked. The spike was the high voltage pulse that zapped across the spark plug.

@carguy3504

6 жыл бұрын

a+++++

@kilianstumpf5048

6 жыл бұрын

Correct for the ignition, but he captures the current in the system and the current should be smoothed by an inductance... maybe the probe wasn‘t correct synchronized...

@stefantrethan

6 жыл бұрын

I don't think it's caused by ringing on an inductor. My best guess is the ringing at the rising edge is actually a control loop oscillation. The switching frequency of this inverter must be tens of kilohertz, while the waveform we see has about 70Hz. This means it is constructed by the welder out of many switching periods of the inverter, much like a digital amplifier, and you are not looking at individual switching events at all but rather the overall result including all the imperfections of the control loop. When you make a control loop that is fast it often overshoots after quick movements, you have to compromise. I have no explanation at all for the peak at the end of each pulse. Part of me thinks it must be intentional because there is no reason why the current would go up like that. I design switching power supplies every day, but not welders, so I know what switching waveforms on inductors look like. I hate it when people claim to be an expert, I'm just saying I am not some crazy guy who wants to disagree with you, I have good reasons why I think your explanation is insufficient.

@Dragonmastur24

6 жыл бұрын

I would have to think so too!

@sorcyo

6 жыл бұрын

Elizabeth Greene and I learned something agaaaaaain..... even reading coments on This old Tony videos makes you learn stuff ....... this channel is DANGEROUS

Dude. One of the coolest vids on KZread in a while. Good on ya, from Boston.

Tony is setting the bar pretty high releasing videos so close together lately. Love it!

Hey! We all learn something new every day bub. I, for instance, have been learning immensely from your channel! Thanks for being AWESOME!

Thanks Tony. Three fascinating videos in a week. Christmas and birthday rolled into one.

Tony, making mistakes like that, fixing ‘em and showing us what you did, is how we learn to troubleshoot. You have nothing to apologise for and deserve credit for being an enough to share your journey.

Love this follow up. Makes sense of everything and gives me closure. Very nice

Tony I love your take: good, bad or indifferent. Thanks for sharing.

Another great video Tony. That is how we learn. I appreciate man that can say I don't know once in awhile way more than the owns that already know everything. Thanks again this video taught me a something about the current probe as well as what the functions of the TIG Power supply are doing.

Hey Tony... I don’t think you should apologise - as a non Tig welder type person (if I could get a HTP here in the UK I’d get one!) and as an old Sparky (in all sense of the word) I very much enjoyed watching the mysterious working of one of these new fangled do all welders! I very much like the humour that you put in to your videos, they often make me laugh out loud (literally!) please keep the vids coming - I’m sure they take up a lot of time producing but they come across very professional. I offer wonder what line of work is with range of knowledge of the engineering side and the electronics that you get involved with. A big thanks for sharing. John 🇬🇧

@lodgecav490

6 жыл бұрын

Hello John, just to let you know you can get the HTP221 here in the UK, it is made by Stel in Italy and is sold in the UK from 'Equip Centre' in York and is badged as a Stel AC/DC 221. The HTP is just a re-badged version of the same welder. It has the advantage of being dual voltage as well. Just thought you may like to know.

@onlooker251

6 жыл бұрын

Lodge Cav - Thanks for the info. I’ll start saving my pension or reducing my beer a wine intake to subsidise a purchase! 🤔😋 John

@eflanagan1921

6 жыл бұрын

Whoa whoa ,easy on that radical move stuff !!!!!

HI Tony, I love the videos! .... In regards to why there are those spikey leading and falling edges in the waveform, it is pretty simple. A square wave is simply the addition of multiple sine waves of the correct frequency and amplitude. The frequencies that are added are the fundamental (80 Hz in your case) and then integer multiples of that frequency (harmonics). The spikes simply indicate that the ratio of all the added sine waves are a bit off. It looks to me like the fifth or seventh harmonic is a bit strong but you could only know for sure by looking at the signal with a spectrum analyzer. This sort of thing (strange spikey bits) is pretty common in high current / high power / low frequency systems like your TIG welder.

The waveform now looks exactly like I thought it would. You get an increased voltage before and after switching the polarity, to keep the plasma alive while the pixies change direction.

@U014B

2 жыл бұрын

That's exactly what I figured, but I wasn't sure.

I have no idea what you are discussing but I still love your videos 😁

@vinny142

6 жыл бұрын

Even Tony doesn't know what he's talking about half the time, that's why we love him :-)

Tony no problem coming from a prof. who taught electronics in a vocational school it's good to hear how others solve the issue. You do know you have a dual trace scope you can compare two welders at once smile, smile.

The nerdyness on this channel and its viewers is awesome!

Idk if i can handle all the videos from you this week my head is going to explode. Great content as always.

I have been tossing around the idea of building a welder, this just goes to show how much effort and knowledge it takes to build the kind of welder you now own. Some things are worth the money.

Thanks for dropping by back at ya. The overshooting is most likely the response time of the big FET transistors that are quickly switching at 40amps. There is enough impedance in the system that it's acting like a little shock absorber so the reactions are delayed. We see it all the time in my day job work switching 300Amps really fast.

Very good video. We can argue for hours about something we think we know, but seeing it in the scope takes all the doubts. Thanks

I was entertained. I learned something new. Keep them coming.

Well, my prediction was right... I had no idea what was going on in the first place. Thanks for clearing this all up. And serious kudos for manning up to your mistakes. It's best lesson we all can learn from this video.

I could smell the ozone listening to that thing buzz away. Thanks again for the awesome explainers!

You are awarded bonus points for the thumbnail. I like what you did there.

well, it is good to see somebody, who has got so much experience, can also struggling sometimes. nice video like always!

Totally awesome, Tony, it all makes great sense. And that was a nice demo. I'm a little surprised they have a current limit/control fast enough to do the positive and negative parts of the waveform independently, but obviously they do. Since nothing is perfect, yeah, you have some ringing and overshoot. I wouldn't worry about that one bit - it takes finite time for things to respond. Some energy is stored in magnetic fields etc as well, it's not a big deal. Most scopes have an invert button if you don't want to flip the probe, FWIW...

Glad you shared yr musings - helps in relation to thoughts about modifying my very low price scaled ac/dc tig - there's no frequency adjustments, so I think to one day change that - . You help in respect of a little more familiarity with test setup even if it might be easy enough - we shared your 'hands on' - z kool man. Tak - thanks

No need to apologize or feel like you have to walk away with your tail between your legs! That is part of LEARNING! Great that with all the HELPFUL comments, you were able to show us what your welder does and the waveform looks like. Thanks!

Thanks for inviting us along for the journey!

That waveform looks great. Don't worry about the ears, they're just an artifact of the clamp meter coupling the signal. I'm glad you got it straightened out

That is the kind of question I ask myself and then never do an experiment on. Thank you I like your roller coaster.

Tony... you are awesome!! Im watching you for long time... And you never failed to entertain! And educate!! Could you do video about taps and dies?

Tony! We miss you! Make more lathe/mill build videos. Also, the “it’s not a tooma” quote was funny.

Tony...you can't spoil me with this many videos in one week

These were two really cool videos. I did not understand a single thing you outlined here but the videos were cool and I assume showed off some cool stuff.

Great follow-up on an interesting Fab video. Keep em' coming "raw"

Excellent, now I understand even less 🤓. Still planning to watch more of what you do. Thanks for the information.

@jessehigley5283

4 жыл бұрын

Now now now, that's not quite true. What is true however is that you know more about what you yourself are lacking knowledge of. If that makes sense...

Not everyone knows everything at once Tony! It's helpful to all the rest of us as well when you explain what went wrong. And all of us prefer more TOT videos anyways

@mikesportsman1811

6 жыл бұрын

MrSidiox... Ditto to what you are saying here. That is exactly what I was trying to convey in my comment, but you said it much more elegantly. Best wishes, Mike

from the bottom of my heart, Thank you!

Being that the most "welding" I've done was inside a carbon arc lamp movie projector this saga has been very fascinating to me. I'm not even sure these welders would supply clean enough current for a good movie watching experience. But I never had an oscilloscope handy to see what it was doing. I just trusted that it was set up properly when the technician serviced it.

Interesting stuff! Even with a square wave one tungsten balled up more than the other- I think it is heat transfer more than current flow. Great videos as always

Hey TOT, I saw your scope flip the waveform for a brief moment and that would have me to believe that the scope might be triggering on the negative half of the wave. This would lead to it looking like your clamp is upside down, If you want it to look right you can probably fix it by tinkering with the trigger polarity Love the new 3 vids a week format ;)

Loving the IKEA RF Åtténjuåtörs! Awesome video

Thanks for the follow up :-) The probe got me as well, used to reading "10 mV / A" and "100 mV / A", going on the routine can lead to failure...

Love this man, very cool seeing thing in action, even though you can picture in your head. Seeing is believing

Learned something new, thanks Tony.

Thanks for the vid as usual! And what are you building!!! Can't leave us blue balled and out in the cold!!!

Tony, we all are learning; that is why I am here; to learn great things and the great professional advice, especially multidimensional scientific problem solving. Can't wait for the next video; how about making a tool post grinder? Thanks, Joe

Hi Tony, I do a lot of work with inverters for motor controls. That spiking on the leading and trailing edge of the pulse, could be ringing caused by the fast switching of the output IGBTs (transistors). It doesn't look like typical ringing, but I'm not familiar with welding inverters, so there could be some special circuitry that's causing those artifacts.

Being a good scientist... AVE would thoroughly approve I do believe! Awesome as always

Glad you got the demonstration working. That setup makes sense. - Eddy

Wow, nice test jig, man! Nice analytical thinking to all involved!

New vid - Thank you sir, made my day!

Great vid! I don't think flipping your clamp made the difference, but the range selection was the key. I must get my labscope out and do this too! GREAT to see the waveform change as expected. A question you didn't get to is about pulse levels. Since getting my inverter, setting background current to something like 40% and 100 amps, I would expect a partial pedal of 50 amps to bounce down to 20 amps, but I don't think these welders do that! I think 50 bounces down to 40, and the 40a is a fixed current based on background knob setting (x) max current setting. I was expecting it to maintain the "percentage". Thoughts? Cool that you have indepentant En and Ep current shifts, never seen that before! Thanks!

About 3:50 you mentioned the peaks, that is called overshoot. In a perfect (non-existing except in a textbook) world, the waves would be square. But the actual physical components can't do it. The wiggles on top and bottom are called ringing (an impressed frequency on the voltage). Every square wave will have that. It's unavoidable. But not an issue. The overall voltage is close enough to what's advertised. Congrats on getting it to look right. An negative on top isn't an issue either. IT"S AC!!!!!! That's what's important. Good work, man, good work.

this is for arc starting on clean surfaces. On a clean surface that is molten for a while the work function of the electron is changed. That means it has a easier time leaving the rod then the metal, so you get a turn off on the half cycle. This is why electrode size, type and also the symetry setting can be important. Ultra clean = goes out. its like boiling water in a super clean container kind of

Regardless of content, your videos are pretty dog gone entertaining!!! Keep em coming!

Awesome love this stuff! Thanks Tony

Great video. Next step is to play around with using higher cleaning duration at lower amps while keeping penetration amps at max. Would love to see the effect on both maintaining tungsten sharpness and the puddle. Maybe even do a cross section and etch?

The output side of the welder is basically a bulkcap charged to some known voltage by the input side of the welder(ac line voltage input). The bulk cap is discharged into the work piece via a full H-bridge this maybe built from mosfets or BJTs depending on the welder. A microcontroller will control the current via PWMing the transistors in the bridge on and off. But it may need some time to react to the change in current flow at the abrupt points(corners of the waveform). These bat ears are called overshoot and undershoot. There is also the use of large inductors in series which can make the over shoot worse. They like current to remain constant and will spike voltage to keep or drive the current flow. The inductor makes for a nice constant current output(the main area of power transfer in the waveform). It just kinda makes it hard to design around those corners.

Enjoyed ! Now onto how the adjustments actually affect a weld bead.

Glad you got it figured out, entertaining as always. ;)

We may bark at wrong tree,the band width of the current probe is too low for sqwave edges A. Wide band current trans.(Pearson) or volt.pickup at few inch of the ground lead is better, You may want to connect a neon lamp across scope probe if that make you comfortable. The switching artifacts may too fast to show at that sweep rate, you have done a great service To us all,thank you!

I found some older videos (Injection Molding, Bending how-to) etc... and came to find a recent video in which you might actually still be reading comments... I just wanted to let you know that you earned a subscription thanks to your great sense of humour mixed with... wait did I just get a bumpy red underline on Humour? Who's in charge of spell check around here? Anyway, enjoyed the videos, and even more so thanks to your style. Of course, if after watching more of your videos I find that your style changes, you will be unsubscribed pronto! Have a nice day!

Mr. Anthony I would love to see a any air rifle videos but really enjoy all the other stuff to....👍🏻

Great video Tony!

Actually those wave forms look fairly good for something like a welder. I have seen a lot worse on some switching power supplies. The overshoots are generally caused by all the stray inductance in the circuit, which include things like the wiring, transformer leakage inductance and the HV start coupling network.

glad you got it all sorted.

Those peaks are something called Gibb's Phenomenon, and are classically seen in square waves. It's generally an overshoot from a fourier approximation (adding in more and more sine waves in order to build up a function approximation). I'm not sure in your case if that is exacerbated by equipment, setup, or just signal processing and physics being their usual neat selves. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbs_phenomenon

Great followup. All is now right with the universe and we are now safe.

This is what's great about the collaborative internet. We can all contribute a little and then we all get a whole lot back. Thanks for the update.

The peaks are transients/overshoots during switching and stabilisation. It is to be expected. In high inductance circuits they are quite hard to avoid. Nothing to worry about.

2:30 got Rhett & Link's song "My OCD" stuck in my head for the day.... thanks.

I'm glad that you got it cleared up :)

Everything you do is way above my pay grade.

@UncleKennysPlace

5 жыл бұрын

It's then time to raise your pay grade.

You have the BEST Rollercoaster on youtube !!!

Hi Tony, at the end I understood only 10% of your explanation but I had 110% of fun :D

Tony, I look forward to your humorous approach to sharing your knowledge. I would like to see you do one of your episodes on the lowly file. I could use some schooling on when to use a single cut or a double cut, what a mill file is, and why the heck is the TPI for a bastard file different according to the file length? Thanks.

Thanks for the ride! It was interesting.

Nice. I love a simple answer.

not reading the manual as a defence? Something about haste comes to mind. But we all do it and thanks for the honesty and the heads up on this stuff.

The IKEA part was pure genius.

You do some interesting stuff Tony!

Nice one Tony, glad you sussed it out.

Thanks for being curious !!!

There is a constant current power supply after witch goes an h bridge and a filtering inductur should go. When the h bridge flips polarities the constant current supply does its job by increasing the voltage, and output filter puts some delay in the feed back loop... thats why the overshoot on the leading edge, trailing edge - ouput filter inductor works the same way like in the dc to dc boost converter, thats why the trailing edge spike.

Glad i could help and give something back to you :)

Nice follow up - thank you !

The leading and trailing peaks on the waveform represent the welding power supply switching into, and out of, current regulation. Current regulation switches on right after polarity reverses. And switches off again right before polarity reverses. The 'switch on' peak is a little longer duration than the 'switch off' peak. That's because for this power supply the current regulation circuitry takes a millisecond or so to 'capture'.

Pretty cool when a tool does exactly as advertised, even though 99% of its users can barely if at all tell what it's really doing.