The way Steve reminisces about the poor treatment of Richard and Mark with a smile on his face says a lot about him

@tomdiets5079

2 ай бұрын

Dudes a prick

Steve Grossman (as portrayed in this documentary) is the distillation of everything wrong with the climbing community concentrated in to one person. I am so glad that him and his type are at the end of their direct influence over the sport and there is space for the next generation to step in and move the sport forward independent of these elitist assholes with an over inflated sense of self importance. Good riddance, Steve and his lot... Rest In Peace Ammon.

Steve is an embarrassment to the sport of climbing.

@verg4469_

13 күн бұрын

yup total d bag

Steve, you never would have climbed this…

Steve comes over as an arrogant elitist, who feels he owns it all, not a good look

I can't stand gate keepers like Steve Grossman. They totally put people off to different sports.

@tomdiets5079

2 ай бұрын

They ruin a lot of extreme sports, I don’t understand why gate keeping is such a problem I’m extreme sports. It’s like their being selfish and don’t want to share.

@PirateCommander

Ай бұрын

​@@tomdiets5079 I'm retired at more than one [multiple] 'extreme sports'. We can pass on the LORE (tips and wrinkles, myths and legends), but we are not 'the' LAW (Dictators). I'm out of Paintball, Bungee, Skates and SkateBoards, occasionally I found myself relieved that safety (ropes especially) was a 'thing' in other things I dabbled with that I'm NOT considered expert in, so, yes, there is always going to be a better opinion on every decision you make ... after the fact, but watch out always for anyone EARNING A LIVING out of being an 'expert' on things they haven't actually got a proven [to peers] record in.

I'm totally on the side of Richard and Mark in this one. I've experienced the dark side of cliquishness in the Valley. I've had gear stolen, shit in front of my tent, and being shunned, thank goodness never a fight. Mainly one summer in late 70s after several other good seasons with no problems. That summer, all my partners ended up being mostly Squamish guys and Austrian and German. I was told, being a climber from the PNW, that I didn't belong there. Steve Grossman who I normally respect was a real dick in this story. Isn't it interesting how Ammon (and Kate) get so much credit for doing such a gusty difficult climb and Richard and Mark were just evil noobs. Lets get this straight, first ascents will almost inevitably take way longer than any repeats so the fact that they took so long is BS as a criticism. Grossman, it seems, would only be satisfied either with their deaths or them begging for his personal forgiveness and kiss his ***.

@Sackfullofbadgers

3 ай бұрын

Yeah Grossman sounds like a real loser. I really haven't heard of this happening in any other climbing area. I really think it reflects badly on the people involved and you can guess who they are. Big props to Gabe McNeely,. what a dude.

@ellingwood1

2 ай бұрын

Agreed, that Grossman is a piece of work.

@D_Syno

2 ай бұрын

When is Steve Grossman going to apologize?

@michaelthomson8065

2 ай бұрын

Sad,but true.I understand respect for traditional styles in certain areas,but if your vision is true,just do it.

@Nuttyirishman85

Ай бұрын

The cliquishness is worldwide. I started climbing 3 years ago, so I’m basically an nooby outsider still looking in. I don’t like what I’ve seen so far. The egos and the judgmental personalities are nauseating.

RIP, Ammon. I miss you, my friend!

Ammon's brother seems like a nice dude

5:52 No Steve Grossman, your pathologies of aggression, self-importance and entitlement are what caused trouble on this climb.

steve grossman could never climb wings if steel

Steve Grossman, what a tool. They owe you nothing.

The harassment they received is the kind of harassment you receive from a bunch of losers who think they are in a position of authority. That so call historian in reality is the chief loser.

@wyleFTW

Ай бұрын

He's like a foamer of rock climbing lol

I love Steve Grossman saying, "I was relieved when Ammon and Kate did the route so I wouldn't have to waste time debunking their claims." Like he could have ever climbed Wings of Steel. What a loser.

Richard and mark definitely didn’t deserve that. Seems like locals were just pretty insecure.

Steve making it hard to watch this.. Im cringing

Mommy, they’re on my rock again!

I am a surfer first and foremost, but I've climbed enough, and been lucky enough, to have had some exposure to a few climbers who, though they wouldn't admit it, were at an elite level in the sport. I must say that I did catch a whiff of the territorial/ethics thing, not on the receiving end but hearing the chatter around the campfire among the good climbers about this and that. I would also be asked about surfing's localism phenomenon, and I struggled to find parallels amongst the climbers. I always had the opinion that if resources in rock climbing became as scarce as they are in surfing, then climbers would behave the same way and climbing areas would have localism too. Of course the climbers would reject this notion, with the position that climbers are often stewards of nature, had ethics, were more respectful and peaceful, and so on. So I had to chuckle when Hans Florine mentioned surfing... To me, what went on around the first ascent is substantially and entirely identical to surf localism. It is cliquish thuggish behavior that goes far beyond what would be appropriate to the reasons they give to justify their actions. There's a difference between telling someone they're being unsafe or disrespectful of ethics, and using those virtuous motivators as excuses to choose to dislike and exclude outsiders. Most of the time the things that are done are far beyond appropriate for their given reason. You'll have a few real bullies surrounded by a large crew of simpering enablers who just want to belong. Hearing Steve Grossman talk about the route getting chopped reminded me of so many of the simpering enabler type I've known surfing. They wouldn't start anything or lead the threat but they'd be there in the background chattering. And later when they talked about their big goon friend pushing around that kook from down south or whatever, and saying yeah they were being unsafe and in the way, they would all have the same smirk Steve had. Like he was really thinking about the funny stuff that was said around the campfire after the guys that chopped the route got back. Thank goodness I learned long ago that these groups who claim things of nature as their own have built among themselves towers without foundations, and are best ignored.

@userjuha

21 күн бұрын

When you add reincarnation/rebirth to this localism equation you can understand why they turn so petty and their world so small. Imagine Steve looping on births in the same region again and again!

Fuck Steve. I mean that. I started in the 80's and never went to Yosemite back then because of this kinda bs. All anyone had to say was good luck, boys. Good on Ammon!

Thanks for this superb film.

So I'm learning that no matter what extreme sport you personally choose to participate in, there will always be a "Steve," a selfish bully who looks down on people with less experience than him, or people new to a certain area as if he didn't have to start somewhere himself. You'd think after all these years that he would have matured and realized how wrong he was for treating those 2 poor climbers the way he did, but the dude literally couldn't even talk about how badly they were treated without grinning, like he totally supported it and would do the same thing again tomorrow to anyone he decides isn't worthy. Makes me fucking sick, dude is a gatekeeping bully, and seemingly proud of it. People like that can literally completely break a newbies spirit, and make them feel unwanted to the point where they give up all together. Same thing happened when I started whitewater kayaking. A person with 20 years of experience would decide that I didn't belong on a particular river, talk to the community about it, and suddenly nobody ever wants to paddle with you again despite how open you are about being a beginner and wanting to improve. I absolutely fucking despise people like that...

That God for people like.Ammon.Who thru big wall climbing,lives life to the fullest.Arhh mates.

This Grossman, some self-styled "historian", issuing a fatwa against Jensen snd Smith claiming they had to obey his and his sect claiming they hadn't shown enough respect by not doing the "correct" prearation is a piece of shit.

Never did. Never would attempt, but I was always fascinated by climbing. The gang mentality (“we own this rock”) thing caught me by surprise. Very engaging documentary.

Great documentary

Got copletely hooked by this documentary

@jameshowat1396

2 ай бұрын

😉

Remarkable video

Fantastic film. Brilliantly made story

I was a total novice on El Cap once and was jugging slowly/inefficiently out of a belay station on the Nose when Hans Florine (the 2020s version with gray hair) and his partner jetted up to the anchor I just left. He looked at me, smiled and said "you gotta get faster with that". Honestly if I got to that skill level, some of it might get to my head and I wouldn't be so kind to a slow gumby jeopardizing my NIAD ascent. Hans really is a super nice guy and emblematic of modern climbers (kind and non-confrontational). Steve, on the other hand, represents a mentality that has thankfully died off in the Valley. There are enough climbers out here that you can't possibly know everyone, and no one person has enough influence to shit on/cut down the ropes of another.

Amazing.> thank you!

As a climber of 15 years I’ve seen allot of gatekeeping, I believe this was a major reason for the backlash they received.

It's always nice to see petty jealousies get put to rest. Respect to both parties of climbers for persevering and achieving their objective. Some people are talkers and some people are doers.

It’s seems to me, that it’s a free rock anyone can climb. For the clique of the valley climbers I say,kick rocks, you don’t own El Cap…they can climb anything, anyway…

@robertedwards3822

16 күн бұрын

I would add that the whole Yosemite world would be 1000 times better if everyone were more supportive of each other rather than acting arrogant and saying “I was here first, and you have no right to be here.” Bottom line is, anyone who has the courage and fortitude and skill to climb that rock has the right to be there.

Outstanding

I enjoyed this film. Didn't get the Grossman vibe at all. What's the big deal? I am a surfer and I get it when a good wave is forming and people compete to get it. The rock is just sitting there. You can wait five minutes and do the climb with no need to compete. People criticize surfing but they don't understand the fleeting nature of it and the forced time table of Go Now or miss it. Sometimes that leads to crashes and poor choices in the heat of the moment. I love climbing because it is the opposite. Just wait a little bit and the climb is all yours. Some people I will never understand. Ron Kauk comes off as such a cool thoughtful guy. I have met him and he is exactly that, a total cool cat. Grossman could learn a thing or two from him.

Climbing is such a soulful experience, I can't understand anyone who would treat a fellow climber with violence and animosity. It's an art when people climb. Fuck the "local" mentality.

I’m not a climber or mountaineer, but have participated in my share of extreme sports through my lifetime. I admit before I knew anything about it I was astounded by Honnold’s‘s first free solo, and therefore got very hooked on the observer level and started watching these videos. My take away from a non-participant perspective. I would add that the whole Yosemite world would be 1000 times better if everyone were more supportive of each other rather than acting arrogant and saying “I was here first, and you have no right to be here.” Bottom line is, anyone who has the courage and fortitude and skill to climb that rock has the right to be there.

Total respect for the people who have climbed the route. The rest? Insecure posers. No body owns these faces. As long as damage is not being done you either can, or cannot, see a line. You either can, or cannot climb the line. The rest is schoolyard politics.

I've been climbing my entire life, I first came to Yosemite (from Norway) in 1981, and on that visit I used a _single_ placement comparable to what both the first and second ascensionists had to do for _every_ move on that slab. The route was on Quarter Domes and I needed a single piece of aid to reach into the bottom of a perfect splitter crack, so the only option I found was the smallest size RP, placed sideways between two quartz crystals on the surface. It did hold my weight (I'm 59 kg), but when my climbing partner Dag (who was about 3 kg heavier) followed, the RP came out. I'm just trying to image doing stuff as insecure as that, for move after move and pitch after pitch, and I realize that I really cannot image what kind of mental fortitude that would require.

Wow!! Horrible treatment… and sad how they blame the people being disrespected! Smh

that UPS driver is a bad ass

Elitist a-holes f up every sport. El Cap is an amazing formation as well as those who have climbed it whether free or aid

RIP Ammon

Too bad the locals didn't see the vision when Ruchard and Mark chose their line.

This guy Steve is mentally ill. He's consumed 40 years of his life hating over a lie he told himself. It appears that his entire identity revolves around that. To me, it strongly suggests that Steve has thrown away his entire life over envy and jealously. He come off like a very disturbed man to me.

I understand that there are people who are extremely negative, envious, violent, dishonest ............... but I don't understand how it is possible for the majority of people in one climbing community to take on such a character and abuse two people just because they are good climbers and mind their own business. Is this typical of the American climbing community, or things like this have happened elsewhere?

@AvalonDreamz

Ай бұрын

Because of elitist weasel turds like Steve Grossman who was probably just jealous of them. That is how he sounds anyhow. 🤣

the dick mesuring contest that went on and on on Supertopo for years finally got a break when El Cap Pirate did the second ascent but Steve G never shut up and continued to prove he was the king of jerks at his chosen profession of gatekeeper of his inflated ego. Before the Pirate flew to the great beyond he also did an amazing job of holding his shit together after nearly severing a foot on his other jump that did not end well yet in hindsight not as bad as his l final flight RIP Ammon

I'm just happy to have an El Cap film that "doesn't" include Honnold or Caldwell

Aww someone’s poor ego got shattered. If it was so important, why didn’t Steve go prove his theory 30 years ago. Instead he let it eat brain cells all that time.

I’m not a climber….no dice but this was a great documentary. The old wrinkled historian comes off like such a huge Dbag. Embarrasment to the sport.

After watching Alex Honnold Docs. For 2 days... I can't understand the petty b.s. of some holes drilled in a mountain big enough that their route may never be repeated...

43:23 I understand an incredibly idealistic young person, who is unbelievably naive due to a lack of life experience, having this attitude about two other people’s lives… but guy has got be 60 & he’s still this irrationally upset? I can’t figure out if he really is that pathetic, or if still having that kind of hatred at his age over (let’s be really honest here) a goddamned rock, is just incredibly sad.

Jealousy is an ugly trait, no one owns anything especially not other people! If you disagree with their method just move along and do it yr way, yr own route. Get over yrselfs😂 big babies.

Thank god the paddling community is chill

So sad. Egos gone wild

Ammon!

This is the embarrassing part of extreme sports, the people that do them are these chill acting people acting that try and put off this live and let live attitude but they totally don’t live by this motto.

So no condemnation of the shit-throwing and bullying bt this Grossman.

John Bachar once offered 10k to any climber that could follow him around for a day. Steve, I’m sure the climbing community could rustle up 20k for you to do the 3rd ascent of Wings of Steel-without drilling of course. It would be good so you can get your facts straight, from a historical perspective.

💪

Grossman is a disappointment. Typical bully. Find yourself in a 'community' and then protect your membership in that community by viciously keeping others out. What gives you the right to decide who gets to climb any rock they want in a national park? These parks, and the rocks in them, belong to all Americans.

The balding guy with the earring is still so angry and bitter, it comes as really childish.

No one had a complaint when Tommy Caldwell spent years bolting and working on the Dawn Wall. No one said a word. Why these guys?

@johndough1218

15 күн бұрын

Good question?

Reminds me of Baseball purists. Horrible gatekeepers desperately clinging to the idea that their way of thinking is the only right way.

Alex Honnold.

I couldn't finish this. Babies.

People find excuses not to climb a route. Curiously, most routes that are avoided are desperate, be they beautiful or ugly. Not like this climb is isolated way out in the back country. This stuff about outsider and insider is total crap. Anyone trying a climb is a CLIMBER.

Lol all these old timer gate keepers literally kept the sport from progressing. Props to them for shitting on all those guys and sending the fcking route. All those idiots couldn't dream of sending that thing.

There are those who can't who teach, and then there are those who can't teach but make up a bunch of nonsensical rules to impede others, IOW Steve. I'm sorry, are you really going to remember how many holes you drilled on a first ascent?

If you can't join em' try to beat em' ?

How childish.

@ 12:26 gives me pucker flashbacks about hooking

I am cursed to do just about every hobby. Most people obsess over 1-2 hobbies but I rotate non stop. What I know is anything that has this level of dedication where it becomes someone’s entire identity you then have terrible behavior more often. Anything that is dangerous , cave diving , motorcycles, climbing , it’s always got this larger group of douche bags attached to it.

Steve Grossman is a waste of earth's gravitational pull.

Steve is a foamer

This is a very confusing documentary unless you already know the backstory. Who is “we” and who is who and what did the climbers do wrong?

@johnwaters4566

Ай бұрын

Agree. I don't know anything about the story and it completely didn't make sense. Very poorly explained documentary. What was the controversy.? What a lame video.

steves attitude makes me way more angry than any youtube documentary has a right to what an absolute clown

Its funny all of the comments are from people that don't know Steve we're not in the valley then and learned to climb in a gym not Yosemite. Freedom of speech is not acceptable in the new order . Yeah Mark and Richard got it pretty bad. I was at the meeting at the Rescue cache. By the way people Steve has go e on plenty of cliff Rescues in the Valley helping save lots of climbers. Good flim.

Then Alex Hannold comes along and scuttles up that sucker no rope...🤣

@Leitros-kj4qb

12 күн бұрын

Not Wings' that will never be free soloed.

Wow...I had no idea what small-minded snobs some of these 'big wall climbers' can be. Can't they just be happy for someone else's success? It's just a sport, not a religion. Get over yourself.

There's a lot of poop 💩 involved with this sport, I think I'll stick to bowling.😮

No one talks about the religious prejudice? The first ascent pair were Mormons. Ammon was brought up a Mormon.

@MidLifeCrimper

2 ай бұрын

Seems like a reach idk

@mikes3756

2 ай бұрын

If you read the book Camp 4 it talks about how the other climbers thought Mormons were weird

@tomdiets5079

2 ай бұрын

Honestly, they evidently didn’t want to make it about their religion or they would have said something about this, they did say that they didn’t climb on the sabbath. It’s not being prejudice because they aren’t talking about other religions they just decided to not bring up religion because it’s a freaking climbing documentary. If you think this is religious prejudice I think you need to relax and stop thinking everyone and everything is about religion, not everyone lives like you and I’m saying this as a religious person myself.

@wyleFTW

Ай бұрын

​@@mikes3756well yeah they are weird so what?

@mikes3756

Ай бұрын

I was repeating an explanation of why they were disliked and ostracized by the regular climbing community and why their climb was considered by the community as illegitimate

By just talking about Wings of steel and not showing it in a schematic or something I got bored by 4 minutes. As a non climber

@noahroach4931

3 ай бұрын

I understand that, but you would have to know a fair amount about climbing I think to maybe understand exactly what’s going on up there.

@jacobthayer236

2 ай бұрын

I'm not a climber, and I thoroughly enjoyed it to be fair.

@tomdiets5079

2 ай бұрын

I’m not a climber and was hooked to this film, but I will say the guy Steve is the problem with sports like climbing and surfing. The gate keeping they do in these sports is ridiculous, I can understand they love their sport but that’s not their decision to tell someone what they can and can’t do in a state park, it’s just stupid and makes them look arrogant.

@coresurf22

2 ай бұрын

💯% @tomdiets5079 same for a National Park😉

Envy much?

Pretty boring documentary really.

all the more reason to pack heat.

STUPID ACTIVITY!

I detest anyone who says El Cap……

@HeatherSZ

Ай бұрын

El Cap

In the end , what was highlighted is that the two men that ascended it for the first time are honest good humans , well done And that Steve Grossman is flawed human who suffers immensely living in his own , a skin that is full of malice , jealousy, anger and lies

Sounds like alot of climbers are jealous there not good enough to climb wings of steel?

Yeah look at this man still excusing his behaviour because he insinuates they had to go up there and rescue them, still so telling lot of shit even after all these years.... Be honest, you were JEALOUS........AND STILL ARE....