Not sure if its been mentioned, but House Martell probably has a copy of Unnatural History. In the "Princess in the Tower" chapter, Arianne mentions a book on dragons that makes them seem as dull as newts, and would have preferred to have read 'Ten Thousand Ships' or 'The Loves of Nymeria.' This sounds to me like it was a much dryer text than the adventure and romance stories she prefers, more like a scientific treatise. The Dornish would have had reason to want a book of dragonlore back when Unnatural History was written, to better fight any future Targaryen invasions, and Dorne was still independent when Baelor ordered the burning of the book. So the House Martell likely obtained a copy (the one Arianne didn't read, b/c GRRM likes to tease us with supposedly lost knowledge, like Old Nan's story about a crow that Bran didn't want to hear), and would still have it.

@TheDisputedLands

3 жыл бұрын

Nice! i think you are definitely onto something there. 🤯 For sure, do a write and develop this some more and post it in the forums or somewhere where it can be shared freely. 👍 love it.

@alexandergangaware429

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheDisputedLands Unfortunately, I can't really give more to the theory than what I've stated: the Martell's have a book about dragons that is dry and unromantic, and the timeline for the paramount Dornish house acquiring and retaining a tome concerning dragons (and the CofF, as well as the seasons, according to Yandel, which is one hell of a book), and not losing it along with the rest of Westeros, just makes sense. What are the other dry, clinical texts on dragons besides UN?

@TheDisputedLands

3 жыл бұрын

@@alexandergangaware429no youve got a good idea going on, just add the quotes and write everything up as though it is completely clear and concise. Maybe give an intro on the importance of the book from a historical standpoint and also how the martells having this book might impact the plot. Then roll out what you have. You can use asearchificeandfire.com to get your quotes. Then post your topic to a forum. Learn from any comments or feedback you are given.

@made-line7627

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheDisputedLands I love this comment. It's really nice to see a pretty big KZreadr giving another ASOIAF-lover tips and insights into constructing and sharing theories. Really impressed

@made-line7627

3 жыл бұрын

Those are great points! I _really_ want this to be true!

Loving learning more about Baelor, objectively the weirdest and hardest to understand Targaryen King. Well done!

@reddest-x

3 жыл бұрын

Hey Joe! Not sure if you'll see this but... this video really left us hanging, but the livestream appears to be listed as private! I know its been literal years and you probably had your reasons for making it private, but I'd love to watch the stream if it was made public!

If there is a prophecy against you just let it happen it will screw you anyway so at least stop it from becoming ironic

@facetiousbadger

5 жыл бұрын

Or at least channel your obsessions into something more hygienic than chastity belts.

@jessielefey

8 ай бұрын

Right? "My grandson is doomed to kill me?" But maybe if I raise him with kindness, my death will come as a gift of mercy or an accident mourned. If a destiny is carved in stone, play around the edges to make it prettier; don't futilely try to carve it out and make Fate angry at you.

@taylortanner37

5 ай бұрын

Perfectly put but everyone one wants to beat fate even if every choice they make is just rocketing them towards it faster.

@stephenbrady5220

4 күн бұрын

Or God forbid, self fulfilling.

Do you think maybe Baelor had prophetic dreams? When you think about everything he did, it almost seems like he was trying to prevent something from happening. Maybe he knew that one of his sisters would give birth to a son who would turn on the Targaryen family. He could have thought that these dreams were religious and sent by the seven and this could have been part of the reason why he was so committed to the Faith.

@TheDisputedLands

6 жыл бұрын

Killerina YES!!! In fact I do. There is a conversation between lancel and Jaime where lancel mentions baelor had visions. I'm saving this part for the livestream. Good job! 👏👏👏

I love how subtle George is. He doesn't draw attention to his clues and foreshadowing, he just writes it in and leaves it to us to figure it out.

Baylor: half onto a prophesy that wasn’t coming to fruition yet, and totally going about it in a disastrous way because of it

Balor created many of his own problems. He was both stupid and a zealot.

@theblancmange1265

4 жыл бұрын

Stupidity comes with zalotry.

I just love your connection to other stories and mythologies. Nobody does this as well as you. Most theorist only look for clues in the books. You look for clues in the myths. Keep it up!

A video from Joe and Crowfood's daughter in the same week!! Thank the old gods and the new 🙏🏿

i think baelor saw the destruction of house Targaryen, by the future members (Mainly egg) when they tried to bring back dragons, and they got that knowledge through certain books, such as septon Barths Wyrms and wyverns, which is he burned them. Video intertwines very nicely with joe magicians

Man this and Mr Magician's last video has made me hyped for Fire and blood. 🔥

Holy king Baely, that was incredible ! I have no idea how you're able to be a parent and have a job and just casually pop out these insanely good theories on the side. Cant believe we're finally cracking Septon Barthhhh! I am so excited thank you so much! P.S : I understand the pressure of Patreon but you should consider getting a donation link so we can show our gratitude!

@TheDisputedLands

6 жыл бұрын

Awe, thank you Yohann! That is very kind of you to say! I don't have any plans at the moment for a patreon or donation link, but I may come up with something when we get closer to convention season. Really, it is the comments that I treasure most, and the opportunity to share this. Ive been a fan of mythology for many, many years and George incorporates things in ways that I have never come across before with other writers, so being able to share what I am seeing and being a part of this fandom is incredibly rewarding in itself. Thanks for watching!!!

i guess septon barth had some mention of r'hllor or the valyrian gods in it

Great video. Not enough attention is paid to the Faith and it’s intersection with Targaryen politics and prophecy. I think you are on to something big here.

Woo hoo! Got a Joe video yesterday, and a Disputed Lands video today!

@TheDisputedLands

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching Clint!

Oooooh, interresting! Can’t wait for THAT livestream....!!!

The child Baelor saw who could speak with birds must have been a CotF. Either he saw it physically, and it was glamored, or through visions. Or he saw future Bran.

Oooh! Can't wait for that livestream!!

Another great video! Thanks for this! Also, the sound change when you read quotes is perfect now!

You're killing it!!!So awesome,great work AGAIN &AGAIN!Thank you! Great catch,love this💜💚💙❤💞💖💟💥

I'm watching each one of your videos now. It's addicting :D When Aemon talks about the dragons having three heads, do you think John, Dany, and the dyed-blue hair Aegon (I forgot the name he uses, I'm re-reading the books now) are the 3 heads he's talking about?

@TheDisputedLands

Жыл бұрын

Good question! I think Dany and Jon are two heads, but I dont think Aegon is the other head although I really like his character.

6:09 that's Rhaena not Daena, the one to her right is Daena and the other one to the left Elaena

@TheDisputedLands

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for letting me know, and thanks for watching!

@thebloodyhound9098

5 жыл бұрын

The Disputed Lands you're welcome 😄😄

@zakariaali8864

4 жыл бұрын

If they all looked like that it's no wonder they all fucked their sisters

ps Daena should have Queen after the death of her Brother Warrior King death (the one who finally conquers Dorne.)

@germanzepeda2754

5 жыл бұрын

I disagree it should have been Elaena Targaryen, as bold and fierce as Daena but tempered by shrewdness and cunning. Daena was too impulsive and short sighted.

@allyriastark3508

4 жыл бұрын

@@germanzepeda2754 wtf no Eleana was wack. Daena at least was loved by the smallfolk of King's Landing as she escaped from the Maidenvault and spend time with the common people of the city.

@germanzepeda2754

4 жыл бұрын

@@allyriastark3508 do explain why you think so of elaena.

@sophiawilson8696

3 жыл бұрын

@@germanzepeda2754I pick Daena because she is next in line of brith.

@germanzepeda2754

3 жыл бұрын

@@sophiawilson8696 That is such an outdated and efficient method. It should be the person with the most wisdom and strength of character.

Make it 11 appearances of Unnatural History. It's almost certainly the 'dusty old tome' Doran left locked up with Arrienne in the tower following her ill-conceived coupe. If anyone defied Baelor's orders to burn every copy it would be the Dornish for sure. Also, afaik, it's the only serious text about dragons that was published in a book instead of on a Valyrian Scroll. There's really no other book it could be unless Tyrion isn't the expert he thinks he is, and I doubt that's the case.

That was a superfantasticallyawesome video. I love connections between greenseer magic and targaryens

@majesticmicrobes60

5 жыл бұрын

jimmy wayne dayne yes! Like the targaryens who have one green eye? I’m super curious about that..

Crowfoots Daughter I had heard of your new videos but had never checked them out till now. This was an amazing video and I actually learned several things that I had not heard from anyone else. I really enjoyed your comparisons and knowledge of your topic. I will subscribing. Thank you.

My answer : I assume the connection between ravens and dragons is that they both blended spirits. Ravens and Cotf , wyverns and humans making dragons. Also hope this amuses you , misheard you reading as “ both Baleor and Rhagear had access to the same racehorses “ 🤪

@TheDisputedLands

6 жыл бұрын

Thunder Clap you're on the right track! Btw, I did say racehorses... they totally had access to the same racehorses.😂👍

@eric2500

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheDisputedLands Well didn't they?

Never thought about Baelor that way!

For me his actions especially which are connected to the ravens and converting whole westeros to the faith of seven is something which would crash the domain of the "ice" element over the people. The things which are suggested here seems some way he wanted to weaken also the fire element. Probably he also read some prophecies but his faith formed his view in a different way, and wanted to favour the smallfolk and normal humans the most.

Another great video, thanks a bunch!

Prophecy is so fickle and can fit a lot of people

Baelor brought his own problems on himself.

Brilliant! Nice find. As I said on Joe's video, I'm really looking forward to the panel talk on this. The lineup for it is great and you all work so well together. Can't wait to hear what you found about Baelor's other actions. I kinda dig the hanging.. make us work for it ;)

Thanks to everyone!

@ursaber

4 жыл бұрын

All that would have been avoided if Baelor had fucked his sister and given birth to a son and legit heir to the throne instead of a pretender. Or if Daeron was the one to wed Daena. Why were Baelor and Daena married and not Daeron? Was Daeron gay or something.

@BLooDCoMPleX

4 жыл бұрын

The video is set to private.

@TheDisputedLands

4 жыл бұрын

@@BLooDCoMPleX oh well, crap. i cant change the settings of other channel's videos. Im sorry you missed it. I will edit this post. Thanks for the heads up!

I know the video is 4 years old but this is actually a original theory. Which is why I follow asoiaf channels

Ok I am 100% convinced of this. Amazing work!

I saw you on live chat with Robert & Night's Watch Oath. You are terrific!! I'm subscribed. Can't wait to see more sweetie!!👏🐺🐲❄🔥📚❤

Very very interesting! I loved it ♥️ I can't wait to see stream!

You sooooo left me hanging!! But thanks of course for this, great job as always!

Self Fulfilling Prophesies

Hell yeah!

I feel compelled to acknowledge your amazing familiarity with the lore. Didn't know you had your own channel but I know you(r work) through having dissected LML's portfolio. And when he gave enough shout outs to you for catching things in the text even he himself had missed, for me to know the name Crowfood's daughter, I must tip my proverbial cap to you m'lady. I feel blessed to have so many amazing kindred spirits who appreciate and dive deep into the utterly massive world GRRM has created for us. I love that he gives us things hidden implicitly in the least likely of places requiring the reader to puzzle out the things he wishes us to know about the story and doesnt just state it explicitly with several cues as does so much contemporary media. I think that the writing style provides much and more to be considered. Limited 1st person pov has lead me to question alot of the reading. From smaller considerations like Sansa proving herself a unreliable narrator in terms of misremembering the Hound's kiss, to the fact that the Maesters (especially Pycelle) have biases and agendas that they when speaking to us would convey as the honest truth. That being said I think the text of Unnatural Histories has something that the Faith fears, and that Jaquen is trying to find(hence why he kills Pate and dons his face) what this is eludes me still but GRRM has stated that at least partial copies do still exist in Os. Cheers and look forward to hours of watching your channel!

I know this is way late but I was rewatching... As the Dragons, Wyrms and Wyverns: Their Unnatural History is the only work named, the other two nameless fragments are likely to also be from this work but have lost their context to the point that it is unidentifiable to a lay person as still being from Unnatural History. As GRRM has on more than one occasion said the unnatural length of the seasons has a magical origin, it invites readers to connect Septon Barths works together and they all share the same unnatural origin. Plus it's important to note Barth was a blacksmith's son, so why was he allowed to be studying in a library rather than working as a blacksmith apprentice? Most likely he was researching Valyrian Steel. The knowledge of how to create Valyrian Steel was lost after the doom, so trying to find to clues about it would likely have him reading about all types of Valyrian knowledge and history. Maybe taking him down a rabbit hole the magic involved the unnatural steel could be from the unnatural dragons which could be from the magic the created the unnatural seasons etc, which comes from a magic source that was involved in the Doom. 🤷‍♀️

Good video! Thanks!

Wwwoooooowwwww!!!! Great Job!!! You have Really Nice original and well researched teores. I 'd suggest tô improve your microphone. Keep the good Job!!!!

Such a good video, thank you! Wishing you and your loved ones a "Trevlig helg!" meaning "nice weekend" in Swedish. Hugs & sunshine from the lands of the Vikings 🌞N

What a great video you and Joe should do a podcast.

This is such a good ASOIAF channel

@TheDisputedLands

11 күн бұрын

Thank you so much!

I wish I knew about this channel 4 years ago

Maybe he foresaw the disaster that is Aegon IV & his fathering of House Blackfyre?

I can't wait for Fire and Blood p.2!! I want to learn more about the Dragon Knight.

Rheagar was Azor Ahai who dies from the beginning of the story.

There is such a story in history of my country too. It is instead, like this, after nine sons, a daughter was born to the king. This princess was too beautiful and it was outwardly claimed that she was locked in a tower to be protected from men. But, in reality, it was to prevent the prophecy that the son born by her will kill his uncles to become the king. However, the princess luckily had a maid pregnant at the same time. She just swapped their babies, and claimed that she had a daughter (who was the maid’s child) True to the prophecy, the prince (despite all attempts of his uncles to kill him) survived and killed all uncles except two.

I heard a theory that Daemon wasn't actually son of Aegon, but Baelor. Some assumed that Baelor locked his sisters, because he didn't want to be struck by their beauty... And if he failed? If he went there and had sex, or even raped, Daena? Maybe she escaped but not because she was so defiant, but because she was fearing for herself? And than she escaped with Aegon, who probably gave her an ultimatum, that he would help her escape only if she went to bed with him.

@jmpabd872

Жыл бұрын

There's no way Baelor raped her.. He isn't physically and mentally capable of that. I kinda lean towards Baelor being Daemon's father but I think if something was going on between Daena and Baelor it was 100% consensual

@Sienisota

Жыл бұрын

​@@jmpabd872Didn't he walk barefooted into Dorne? That isn't something a physically frail person can do. He might not had board shoulders and a fighter's body, but he is still a grown man against a smaller woman. With sworn loyal, physically powerful warriors around him. He wasn't a cripple, nor mentally dull (simply a fanatic). Not saying I think he forced her. Simply that the reasons you presented to point against it, don't really work.

@jmpabd872

Жыл бұрын

@@SienisotaYou are probably right.. He physically could do it but just as George said Baelor isn't capable of it

"Corn! Corn!" Mormont's raven.

Sad the prophecy live steam is unavailable now.

Your videos are most impressive. You should be proud

Again the only one who can still teach me shit I don’t yet know. Any chance u can post the livestream to some sort of podcast and not just KZread?

@TheDisputedLands

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks Josh! Using a podcast format like itunes is more involved to set up. The livestream will be available on Joe's magician's channel and you will be able to view or listen to it afterward if you aren't able to make it during the live discussion. I can post a link on my channel when it is available.

@joshtabb

6 жыл бұрын

Will def try to check it out! Such a shame podcasting is such a pain. So many great content creators out there but Most of us can only consume KZread in certain situations. Have you checked out anchor podcast? I think that is designed to make it much easier.

@TheDisputedLands

6 жыл бұрын

I haven't, I might have to check that one out!

❤‍🔥❤‍🔥❤‍🔥❤‍🔥❤‍🔥❤‍🔥❤‍🔥❤‍🔥 awesome vid

End of your video,the proof of last point was Jeor,who was murdered and Jon,also murdered...CAW CAW📬📭✉Who will I cryptically squawk to now? CAW CAW??

@bryantaylor9874

3 жыл бұрын

Google 'asoiaf corn theory'. It's a wacky theory, with an incredible amount of research backing it up, claiming that the different ways the crows can speak are clues of an important event about to happen. He does a better job explaining it than I am but trust me it'll blow ur mind.

Thank you for this vid! Have asked a cpl of other amazing women to do one on him because I have wondered if there was any symbolism with Arya on his statue when her daddy lost his head

This guy ws weird,he went to Dorne to free his family that was captive,but he did so with almost no guard,and walked barefoot al the way to Dorne,talked to the Dornish Prince that agreed to free the captive,however Baelor entered the room full of snakes that bitted him all over,but in the end he managed to free the captive and survive all those snake bites...Blessed or Mad none can answer.

_Why_ did Daena sleep with Aegon the Unworthy? She had so many other choices when she slipped out. Why did she let _him_ of all people slip _in_ ???

To tell you the truth I always kind of nodded off during Baelor parts. Considered him kind of boring and strange (a Targaryen worshipping the Seven?!)... Good video.

Daena didn't escape from the vault to have a relationship with Aegon lmao.

@TheDisputedLands

4 жыл бұрын

Daena escaped three times which led to her pregnancy with Aegon's child. Thanks for the feedback and thanks for watching.

Because they were trying to imitate warging? Maybe maesters are the humans equivalent to the weirwood net?

What if Balor had dragondreams of Daemon Blackfyre akin to Daenys the Dreamer and Viserys I and tried to forstall it? Instead reading a paper prophecy, with his recieving of dragondreams contributing to his madness and his religiousity

Is there any way you can contact Joe Magician and ask him to put back the livestream? I was so hooked!!

@TheDisputedLands

4 жыл бұрын

I dont think so but we might be able to do another one on the same topic!

@ApplesOfDyscord

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheDisputedLands Oh!! That would be so awesome!!! 😍

Baelor = Balor? But Daemon Blackfyre is not Lugh the Many Gifted.

Where can we watch the livestream tonight at 7pm?

@TheDisputedLands

6 жыл бұрын

Here you go! kzread.info/dash/bejne/mZemyaufns6Weqw.html

Tease.

I wonder where Septon Bart got his information, if his sources are still in the palace library, shouldn't maesters be able to reconstruct the Unnatural History somehow?

🔥💯

The link to the video for Targaryen Prophecy Livestream says private, I would love access, I'm very new to Fandom, please advise

@TheDisputedLands

Жыл бұрын

Hi there! JM changed it to private, but if you go to his channel there is a different prophecy livestream on his channel page. I just never removed the link after he changed it. Thanks for watching!

The livestream video is on private :(

@TheDisputedLands

4 жыл бұрын

Oh no! I unfortunately cant change the settings of videos on other channels. Sorry you missed it!

@StankoAx

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheDisputedLands Hahah it's alright, I'll just binge all of the other videos on your channel :D

I would definitely climb the maidenvault to have a cup of tea with you ;P Not creepy at all right...................

I think I've watched the livestream forever ago. What was the conclusion?

@TheDisputedLands

3 жыл бұрын

We talked a lot about how Alysanne, Jaehaerys and Barth could have been influenced by prophecy. How many of the weird edicts baelor put out were a response to prophetic dream or prophetic prophecy. And how septon barth probably drew similarities between the control of ravens and the control of dragons. Ect

@dylangiebel9651

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheDisputedLands Awesome. Thanks for your great content!

I think it was about Bloodraven

Great vid but audio has a bit of an echo

@TheDisputedLands

6 жыл бұрын

Robert Mccune yeah, my audio needs work. 👍thanks for watching and welcome to The Disputed Lands.

112

Be there or be square

Baelor was among the worst Kings in the whole story. Batshit crazy. Although in a different way than was typical among Targaryens.

First

Perseus is a homage, not a shout out. Lol

nice research. GRRM stole everything. just mix n match. The end of ASOIAF is in the history books for sure.

9:20 Biased much? In both cases the daughter was locked away, to avoid accidents.If he was going to die by the hand of a grand son, then he better be of the right blood. Wake up already , one was a king the other a god. Both had duties. You think they would allow just anyone to succeed them? By locking th daughter away , they made sure the prophecy would b fulfilled, but by the right man! Balor locked his sisters away, once he learned of the dangers on incest. He reasoned, correctly, that prayer is it s own kind of magic, that faith might be enough to quicken an egg. Maybe it would have been, but Balor had no faith, just fear. He went after Barth's book, he knew how dragons were created, or thought he knew, and it scared him. He saw his duty as a targaryen, but he wanted nothin to do with it.

Are you recording from the next room, buy a fucking microphone, please.