The key takeaway from almost every PvP player is "it's fun as long as you're winning".

@blondiwithstyle

2 жыл бұрын

PvP games tend to mostly be stomp mode. Either you get stomped, or you stomp someone else. It is very hard to come by close/equal PvP.

@rosssivertson6339

2 жыл бұрын

As Asmon stated The idea of these big epic battles taking place is cool but once you spawn into these worlds what you experience couldn't be further from that. I played back in the days of UO when there were no such thing as pve servers and the reality is that it's just packs of pks "player killers" rampaging around looking for easy targets. And these people went to great lengths to think of all kinds of underhanded shit to achieve it.

@leobrad2199

2 жыл бұрын

Of course. Most people don't want their hard work to suddenly get flushed down the drain, especially if you got jumped or out leveled. Most people can suffer a loss in a good fight, but most pvp'ers are all about griefing and I get that which is why I don't pvp.

@GodwynDi

2 жыл бұрын

@@leobrad2199 Yeah. If they were serious about competing for a challenge, they'd play a competitive pvp game, not an MMO

@styxrakash4639

2 жыл бұрын

Me and my buddy who plays rust with me always say “fun is not created or destroyed only transferred”

To me, the biggest failing of this design is that it rewards griefing, not time or skill. All fights are either ganks or a dude beating another half his level, no skill involved. You can't make a game that caters only to griefers.

@sirachman

2 жыл бұрын

It is a game design problem not a game genre problem. It has been done correctly in a few games like Darkfall. There were huge guilds with people who played together in a world where there was always friendly fire possible. So many people make these videos or posts on forums saying the genre sucks when they have literally never even played the genre enough to have a clue what they are talking about.

@rafaelbordoni516

2 жыл бұрын

@@bobby45825 Dude, chill. WoW PVP has nothing to do with the video, no one here is complaining about PVP or difficult games, we're pointing out that the design proposition of this genre doesn't work. WoW is not a hardcore pvp game, you don't drop all your gear on death and the vast majority of the territory is safe from pvp. If you go to Mortal Online forums and ask around the community they'll call you a casual and tell you "go back to wow". PVP in WoW works because you fight other players for the fight, not for loot or domination. PVP is great, but it's great when it's balanced and the gameplay is good. Spawn camping, ganking and fighting low level players takes no skill and isn't fun, especially when the gameplay is click to auto attack and wait and while cycling through your skills by pressing 1, 2 and 3. Instead of arguing why you think this isn't the case, you're just assuming stuff about us and isn't presenting any actual arguments or facts, you're adding nothing to the conversation. In fact, by bringing up WoW and Dark Souls you just show that you don't even understand the discussion and the arguments, none of them have any of the features we're saying that, when together, makes an unstainable game.

@Jordan-Ramses

2 жыл бұрын

You can, but it bleeds players. Having rpg time based power elements in a pvp game is tarded.

@Rudizel

2 жыл бұрын

Yup, or someone using hacks and glitches like they do in Tarkov.

@Merilirem

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed without griefers the games would be fine. For some reason though people decide to put all their effort into griefing even when there is nothing to be gained from it. The obvious reason is because there is nothing to lose either. Once your on top of a game like this you can generally stay there by just not fighting people fairly.

The fact that Karens spend more money on Candy Crush than neckbeards spend on WoW sent me fucking rolling 😂

@xforcegames3630

2 жыл бұрын

Because those Karens won't let their neckbeard husbands spend any money on "nerdy PC games" but they'll dump hundreds into getting extra striped candies.

@Bollibompa

2 жыл бұрын

@@JWSoul Usually? Lul, what do you even base that on?

@jaytfromsaigon6206

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bollibompa on every single thing that women buy ? And the supplier knows that too. Women clothes are more expensive, utility like razor or toothbrush are also more expensive. That’s why women’s jean don’t have pocket so they have to go get a fucking bag. Get a clue yet? Wake up.

@Bollibompa

2 жыл бұрын

@@jaytfromsaigon6206 Wake up? You have just claimed a whole bunch of things which are factually wrong. How does that support "Women are usually bigger spenders in everything"? Utility like razor and toothbrush... Do you even think before you write?

@jaytfromsaigon6206

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bollibompa not really, but you get what I meant since English is my third language. But the fact that you’re out here asking these questions, you’re asleep.

"Ark is better." "No, Rust is better." Me, an intellectual: "They're both shit."

@aquilleswinkler5051

2 жыл бұрын

i see a hell of a lot more rust youtuber videos than ark

@_ill_gil

2 жыл бұрын

@@aquilleswinkler5051 hate playing rust, love watching rust videos.

@WodaUtlenioooonaaa

2 жыл бұрын

@@aquilleswinkler5051 I believe that's because ARK is way slower on official servers. It's that type of "wait 200h untill it gets better".

@gordieallen6422

2 жыл бұрын

@@WodaUtlenioooonaaa It's because ARK is a statsink-based game and RUST is a skill-based hardcore PvP game. There is no greater adversary than another human being, ergo RUST videos are more entertaining to watch. ARK videos require a person to have a personality to entertain. RUST content entertains on its own because of its volatility. Watch me tranquilize this dinosaur and feed it mejoberries for 8 hours or watch a group of angry 12 year olds scream racial slurs at me in VOIP while I burn down their base. It's obvious which one is going to attract more attention.

@WodaUtlenioooonaaa

2 жыл бұрын

@@gordieallen6422 that's what I said about ARK's official servers. The true fun begins on tweaked servers with different rates, on which you don't feed dinos mejoberries for 8h or modded somehow else. The thing you're describing happens just as much, but just in different places than people would, I assume, expect.

"Their goal is to take over the server and make everyone else quit the game" pretty much sums up a lot of these people I know. The end goal isn't to have a fun fight or show how much skill you have at the game, it's to own the entirety of a server and make SURE that no new players can build up to stop you. You want the bragging rights, you want the fame. Doesn't matter if you killed a dude ten levels under you with shitty gear, or outnumbered a guy ten to one. You just do it over and over until you've made such a HUGE power gap that you can be comfortably bored until the game shuts down because nobody else is playing lmfao

@jlcdavenport6268

2 жыл бұрын

That was all the old school WoW PvP videos. Laintime in GM gear killing people in Greens and Blues...

@OldGorilla

2 жыл бұрын

You know, that is fun to some players.

@Flowilty

2 жыл бұрын

...or they merge your server with one where the stats show other groups will be a good challenge to you. They have people on salaries thinking about this stuff far longer than you buddy.

@Raumplestomp

2 жыл бұрын

South Park prophecies

@Syphaxis

2 жыл бұрын

The only good thing about these players is that dethroning them feels really awesome.

I had a friend who played Ultima Online and all his "fun stories" were just them griefing people into oblivion lol

@marcoswillianl

2 жыл бұрын

Griefing is só fun

@paintspot1509

2 жыл бұрын

That sounds fun to me.

@papadwarf6762

2 жыл бұрын

Yep . Griefing others because they were nerds in RL

@marcoswillianl

2 жыл бұрын

@@papadwarf6762 i dont understand this logic, Getting mad because of a game is pretty nerdish tô me hahahahaha

@jonathanwessner3456

2 жыл бұрын

@@marcoswillianl only for the griefer

An ideal MMO needs to have a multi-faceted approach where casuals can casual and neckbeards can neckbeard.

@organicleaf

2 жыл бұрын

thats hard to balance imho, ik its not a mmo, but look at mordhau, to hardcore for casual and to casual for hardcore with stupid balance so almost noone wants to go hardcore

@Tripskiii

2 жыл бұрын

like albion online. really really good mmo

@Tripskiii

2 жыл бұрын

@@organicleaf literally Albion online did this.

@LaughingJokerProd

2 жыл бұрын

The issue is that one group on average cannot exist so long as the other does. The casual could care less so long as they have their space. The neckbeards unfortunately would see everything as “theirs”, ESPECIALLY, with what the casuals have. Rather than multifaceted, it would really be separate areas, and even then, it wouldn’t stop a Neckbeard from spilling over into a casual area.

@mefi5648

2 жыл бұрын

Well eve online xD

The absolute defeat in asmons face when he gets hit by the reality that shitty free mobile games curb stomp pc and console games any time of the day.

@idontcare9041

2 жыл бұрын

Same reaction I had. This is even more depressing now that Diablo Immortal is out. We're all fucked.

@odisy64

Жыл бұрын

It's mostly built up by poor people who can't afford consoles or a PC, but their is more poor people than rich people, PC is the smallest group because it's the most expensive but they have the best games.

The issue with a system that primarily involves loot being acquired via killing other people is the idea of Loss Aversion. The human brain doesn't treat gaining something and losing something equally, so when you lose something then that loss feels 2x to 3x as bad as gaining that thing would feel good. When you're killed and someone gets your cool sword, you feel far worse than they feel good and this creates an environment where every interaction between players spawns more negativity than positivity. By and large the playerbase will experience more negative moments than positive ones, and that will cause most people to leave after enough time.

@dudebro2638

2 жыл бұрын

I put 2,500 hours into DayZ and can attest to this.

@bosinclaire7670

2 жыл бұрын

Made worse if said reason they lost said items was unfair.. like 5 v 1 with stuns outta the ass in WoW.. losing there feels bad.. would be even more rage inducing if you lost all your gear too.

@IRSpankz

2 жыл бұрын

Rust is fun as fuck, usually cuz I'm owning. But even getting raided doesn't bother me anymore. I've come to expect and accept it as part of the game.

@reperfan4

2 жыл бұрын

@@IRSpankz Swap that around and imagine you aren't usually owning, but rather usually getting owned

@aquilleswinkler5051

2 жыл бұрын

@@reperfan4 exactly, OP missed the whole point of this video. "Losses don't mean anything to me because I bearly lose"

After everything even today people still have this romanticized idea of having that epic fight on top of a mountain or something, where the moment itself was so epic you're not even mad about losing all your stuff on death. But in reality.... in reality... you're gonna get corpse/graveyard camped by a group of people until you give up and log out.

@chilliewhk

2 жыл бұрын

I have experienced this loads of times.

@Hotshot2k4

2 жыл бұрын

As I watched the video, I thought maybe the solution to this issue would be a forced duel system where you couldn't say no, as long as the game determines the fight is relatively fair. Instead of losing all your stuff, maybe you'd have to stake something(s) of similar value. There would probably need to be all kinds of considerations and exceptions and such, maybe limiting it to one forced duel per hour, no more than one forced duel against a character per day or x days (so you couldn't use an alt account or friend to put you on an hour cooldown), maybe allow you to blacklist a character from challenging you if you lose x times in a row to them to prevent harassment (and a limited number of blacklist slots). There are probably ways to force people to feel the tension of loss, and having it be a real risk/reward experience.

@MrRenanHappy

2 жыл бұрын

Just play Fromsoft games

@00Catch00

2 жыл бұрын

There's a game called Knight Online, theres stricte PvP zone with spots of mobs to farm which u can invade and kill other players and u receive national points that u can turn into items, u don't lose exp or items on death and wars are every week, and there's like 200v200 or more people ( orcs vs humans) but with higher populated servers it's mage mage shit fest, mage parties running rampant just nuking people left and right, it's best pvp in any MMO I've ever played tho.

@jaydiism

2 жыл бұрын

Can you tell me of a full loot PvP system that allows graveyard camping? All the ones I know, have safe spaces where you respawn, and get to store all your loot in those specific cities.

Asmon spoke the truth about hardcore PVP players not being good mechanically. Those games typically attract players who couldn't make it mechanically to play competitive games yet wanted a slice of that PVP experience by claiming they "got gud". Fighting games are where the real hardcore PVP players gather and that's where the glorious battle on top of mountainside that Asmon spoke about took place

@KoeiNL

2 жыл бұрын

There are very few players that want to invest time in a true PvP game. Arena shooters have pretty much died out for example. You wanted to play Q3A and have fun? The first couple of dozen hours in that game will just consist of you get getting absolutely curb stomped.

I loved Valheim, but after having to do some much time wasting from sailing back with minerals or running back when dying etc etc. i just ended up using the fly cheat to move around instead of sailing. and then after hitting the plains i just kinda realized that if i am so eager to cheat for time then i might as well not play it lol.

@Chaostheory1980

2 жыл бұрын

I found I was logging into a second world so when I logged back into my main world I was back at base. So I didn't have to go back everytime. Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. It made the game more playable as a solo or co op. That game is really designed to be played by a village of players really.

@BlaiseArath

2 жыл бұрын

The first time is fun, I loved sailing with my friends and even shuttling ore back and forth, but after out 2nd/3rd "World" we downloaded a mod that lets you travel in portals with Ores lol. Wonderful immersive experience the first time, but afterwards its okay to mod it.

"Hey Jimbo, what would happen if we made an MMO to cater to the 1% of people who are latent sociopaths but who are afraid to be actual criminals in real life? ... I dunno Bobby, let's spend a couple hundred million dollars to find out."

@butterymoves163

2 жыл бұрын

Lol underrated comment

@doomdude3034

2 жыл бұрын

"They do it in the game so they must want to do it irl" Jeez this comment section.

@joxerd

2 жыл бұрын

It doesn't even need to be a PvP game, it just takes Halo Laso and how many people have completed it.

@nickh4354

2 жыл бұрын

@@doomdude3034 shut up weeb

@wholetyouinhere

2 жыл бұрын

I feel like you've just successfully argued in favor of the government funding these games directly.

The paradox of people not having PCs but being able to afford dumping a crapton of money in their mobile game exists in 3rd world countries. It's the concept of thinking small purchases overtime is cheaper versus one big purchase. The effect of bad economy puts people in this mindset and is hard to break out of. -from someone who lives in said country

@SokkingBTtulaj

2 жыл бұрын

Also, technically you don't own anything under oppressive regimes because the state could take everything you own and can't hide under your clothes one day and you won't get compensated or to speak about the injustice. Goons take your house and everything in it and you're on the streets with your wallet and phone.

@aciuschristophores7789

2 жыл бұрын

@@SokkingBTtulaj Not sure if that's quite the ever-present danger :P. Also in these countries its normal to be overworked so not having a lot of free time to play on your home PC. Whereas whenever you're commuting or say some free time in work you can whip out your d-I mean phone.

@sirnubsalot8386

2 жыл бұрын

Oh don't worry plenty of people now in the same situation in the first world now to.

@TheMaw365

2 жыл бұрын

Saving money set me free. You eventually have a big stash you can throw at anything you want when the price is right. Most people live pay check to pay check which is why both debt and freemium games are king.

@SokkingBTtulaj

2 жыл бұрын

@@aciuschristophores7789 It's pretty much a danger because nobody is buying property in undeveloped rural areas and the only place left in cities is where poor people live. Don't forget that it's mostly kids being milked in those countries, not the parents. Time is not the problem. It buying an expensive gaming rig just lose it when the bulldozer appears early in the morning.

I agree with Josh here. Getting into hardcore pvp game even days after launch is a freaking nightmare, when it's difficult to even farm the resources, because others with better items are already there, just waiting to take whatever you managed to farm. It was fun. For a day

It's good that EVE keeps coming up in this conversation because if you look into EVE's history it really is the perfect microchasm of the attitudes of elitists vs casuals in a full loot PVP game. In the early times of the game what mattered was having the biggest and best ships with the best weapons and equipment. But then people started to realize that if they just had superior numbers they could just keep throwing wave after wave of their guys at the enemy and, because their low level equipment was cheaper and easier to produce than the big guys, they eventually took them down. That's why it's the Goon SWARM and it identifies with the bee so much. If you want PVP to succeed in a full loot game, then it needs to be on such a scale and with such logistic complexity that the PVPers NEED the PVE players to do things like handle the logisitics or farm for materials to fuel the war effort. You don't necessarily need them to participate in the PVP, you need them to SUPPORT the PVP. It seems like NW has good systems in place to encourage this type of gameplay but it remains to be seen how it will all pan out.

@federicocappellini3241

2 жыл бұрын

Narrator's voice: it didn't pan out

@jasonwaltman3566

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with you on your point but what EvE has that NW doesn't is consumption. Everything that is produced in EvE is destroyed and that creates a cycle. It would be pretty much impossible to get the NW players to accept gear that is destroyed permanently via any method. Maybe if that was a design element implemented prior to release but now? It wouldn't fly. I'll skip getting into a rant about the other aspects of EvE that I have "feelings" over.

@Lone_Wolf_91

2 жыл бұрын

Good input with pve sourcing the pvp.. Or what ever system that helps pvp'ers to keep hardcore without much of a pain by losing their shit. Rly like it thx

@HallyVee

2 жыл бұрын

Ark has a fairly strong PVE element.

@immatoll4375

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I think the same. Also "Albion Online" is a perfect example of a working PvP game that is almost good balannced. If New World would just have been a 3rd Person Albion Online it would have been perfect. Instead it does almost everything bad in direct comparison. e.g. in Albion Online even a small group can dominate against a bigger group or as solo player you can mostly get away from a horde of players etc. Stuff in New World do not work at all but should.

This played out 21 years ago. Asheron's Call had a dedicated PvP server called Darktide. When you made a new character and logged in, max level characters would be waiting to kill you and loot you of your starter gear. Then they'd camp you until you logged. The problem became this: Darktide had all predators and no prey. The server population just grew smaller and smaller, until there were just handfuls of players left.

@Solarcloud

2 жыл бұрын

This is not true, DT was one of the most popular servers in the game?? The server was amazing.

@randomperson-cq6lb

2 жыл бұрын

Not true i can vouch that i only spawn killed for 12/7 they still had another 12 hour window to get stronger :)

@LuciusC

2 жыл бұрын

@@randomperson-cq6lb lmao well I'm sold

@pashley1411

2 жыл бұрын

The Darktide/Asheron Call game population declined over combat hacking, not pvp. If you were on Darktide, the intensity was part of the draw; it was the alpha pvp experience when pvp was new. And if I recall, DT's numbers were similar to the other 4 non pvp servers. Asheron's Call's brilliance was important towns, so while in open world pvp the aggressor almost always outnumbers the defenders for a quick gank; in AC a (defenders) town, with instant portals, the defenders often could call on numbers, and make a good and interesting combat of it.

@stefanadrian1977

2 жыл бұрын

I remember that game I was 6 or 7 years old I quit the game because someone kill me for no reason 😂my father use to play that game more.

The thing is - nobody wants to be at bottom of food chain for 90% of time. People daydream of farming others and then sudden realisation hits - they are unhappy because they farmed bottom half of community to death. And at some point there is nobody to farm because biggest fish rarely challenge eachother unless its guild thing.

@bofasofa9399

2 жыл бұрын

??????? you PVErs are so weird

@Skyblade12

2 жыл бұрын

Yep. Start with 100 players. Bottom 50 leave because they're getting camped indefinitely. Then the bottom 25 that are left leave. Then the bottom 10. Then the bottom 5. Then the bottom 2. Then the bottom 1. Then it's just you and the one guy camping you, and you leave. This is how it goes every single time.

@serafina2643

2 жыл бұрын

@@Reapermodus That's you, but that isn't everyone.

@gervoh

2 жыл бұрын

@@Reapermodus Then you're the 1% that will stick around, casual Jimmy will leave and find something that's fun instead.

@smalltimeexplorer3544

2 жыл бұрын

@@Reapermodus People just can't handle competition. Full pvp mmos are my favorite, Tibia, Albion Online, Eve. Some of the funnest times I ever had was playing full loot pvp games.

You made a great point about, “gamers feeling like they wasted their time” I think this is why osrs does so well. Everything is always relevant but power creep becomes an issue.

Well said about player's time. Whenever i feel i'm wasting my time, i get frustrated, i stop and go do something else. That's one of things that bothers me in WOW too.

@yankokassinof6710

2 жыл бұрын

yeah i sadly dropped wow after 3 months and a 5 year desire to be able to finally play it...and when im able to the game just wastes my time, i was pretty upset but oh well i got late to the party

Even a game like EvE Online -which is pretty hardcore - has systems in place to make sure that if you're just remotely cautious, you won't get absolutely obliterated every single time you exit your hanger. People don't want a no man's land PvP experience where there's no way to safeguard your 300 hour loot treasury

@Mr-R.R.

2 жыл бұрын

@@infernalz1337 haha exactly

@arrogantbandit1

2 жыл бұрын

When I tried EVE I had a pretty cool experience. Warped to an area apparently run by some group. Missed their warning to turn around so they obliterated me. 15 minutes later I got a message apologizing for killing me when they noticed I was new, told me it still was a restricted area and to be careful in the future. Then gave me a bunch of credits to set myself back up. Triple the price of the ship they blew up.

@Mr-R.R.

2 жыл бұрын

@UCB5o2yJOa0-UlIqmzwoF7nQ I'm not arguing against the point. I agree with it actually. But I'm saying that even in a game as hardcore as EvE, what you've explained happens less often if you're wanting to be cautious. You know what you're getting yourself into when you enter certain areas, but even so, there's systems in place to help against total obliteration every. Single. Time. This is what rust would be like if were a MMO or the old version of New World.

@Mr-R.R.

2 жыл бұрын

@@arrogantbandit1 this happens honestly more often than not. EvE players aren't you typical hardcore Pvprs. Most of the community actually has honor because there's reward in it.

@zheldor651

2 жыл бұрын

That magical moment when you learn to mine 50 km off of warp-in

In Ark: Survival Evolved, the PvP has dudes min/maxed to be PvPers with insane movement speed and Melee damage. You're out gathering some stuff and in a split second you're getting bonked on the head, knocked out, stripped clean, and killed for free.

@joshthehomesteader229

2 жыл бұрын

And being offline raided and wiped because after months you finally decided to sleep for 6 hours....

@stikdude22

2 жыл бұрын

@@joshthehomesteader229 yeah you need to have a solid tribe to be able to not only be in to defend but to be able to rebuild because everyone will be wiped eventually. Arks real problems r meshing and ddos so I hope ark 2 can fix the fundamentals there

@joshthehomesteader229

2 жыл бұрын

@@stikdude22 yeah the meshing and ddos were a bitch. I still like the game messing around on single player or private servers but all the BS on official servers just killed it for me and pretty much my whole tribe.

@tiraud105

2 жыл бұрын

Your only chance in ark is talk to mega tribes and associates. Id some times let bobs build on my servers and even defend them when griefed. But not many mega leaders are/were like me lol

@joshthehomesteader229

2 жыл бұрын

@@tiraud105 our tribe associated with the space cowboys on our servers they were pretty chill, at least the reps we dealt with on our servers, but even being allied with a mega tribe didnt save us from meshers. And taking or moving to servers was broken with all the foundation spamming or spikes at all the spawn points.

Hardcore PVP is popular, but just not in an MMO style game. Warzone, Fornite, or any battle royale style game is hugely popular, but the items you lose don't take a long time to get back. You can simply hop into another game, gear up and fight other player very quickly.

The problem IMO is that most of the "casuals" have real life obligations like working and earning money to feed themselves/families thus has no time to grind/practice in a game like Hard Core Full Loot MMO. And when character's strength and/or player skill is proportionate to the invested time - *which everyone has 24 hours a day equally* - these "casuals" are guarantee to get smoked against hardcore hardcore gamers/NEETs who spends their time in-game longer than them (some literally all the time except when sleeping). So they quit when they realized that any *very limited progress* they could've make will always set back to zero before it can get anywhere meaningful. This's bad for the game's long-term survivability because these casuals happens to have bigger purses than the hardcore gamers/NEETs by the simple fact that they actually have a job and can afford to spend more money. While the hardcore gamers wouldn't spend as much due to time and effort were... ahem... invested elsewhere that won't earn them enough money for that. This's also the reason why casual games like those mobile games are popular nowadays as it takes minimal time investment, so little that you can play it in-transit to and from work. Time which, allow me to emphasis again; *everyone has 24 hours a day equally*

@sc_cintara

2 жыл бұрын

It's much worse than that. These are "forever" games. So the person that started playing a few months (or years) before you has a few months more of 24-hour days than you. No matter how hard you play, they will always be ahead.

@Gamerad360

Ай бұрын

You can easily fix it, by making the npcs grind for you. Also by making pvp optional.

Everyone loves to gank until they get ganked.

@graveperil2169

2 жыл бұрын

the fear of gank adds the spice

@ricardoferreira4345

2 жыл бұрын

I used to be ganked at the begining when i started to play Albion. I got angry a lot of times and left for some days and come back. After some time i start to learn how to gank and i killed and get killed a lot of times. Gank is a part of the full loot game. The "spicy" and the adrenaline of being ganked while you are doing some content or even transporting gives a lot of adrenaline when you are playing. I tried others MMO after i played Albion (1st time i played a full loot pvp game) and i just cant anymore! Doing PVP without get the others gear just feel boring, you almost fall asleep. The adrenaline that gives you is what makes this type of game a lot addictive.

These are the real “you think you do, but you don’t” type of games

@Rexwizord

2 жыл бұрын

literally EvE

@klaykid117

2 жыл бұрын

For as out of place as that quote originally was, it's become one of my favorite quotes. Another thing to go along with that is Junior game designers who try and make their game as realistic as possible which basically makes it super unfun

@PhyreI3ird

2 жыл бұрын

It really could be fun having a game with the danger of losing all your stuff, but there's never enough consequence on the part of the killers/thieves to make it have a believable, engaging end result. Or even anything short of tedious and mind rottingly boring. Idk if it's possible with these kinds of games, so I think you're right.

“Whenever you lose your stuff to someone else it’s not some glorious battle on a mountaintop” man for real

I remember trying TERA online's open PVP servers when the game launched in america. The game's classes were so poorly balanced that the most powerful class would just camp the same areas and keep killing and ambushing players who wouldn't be able to see them coming. It would just become this loop where you werent able to progress any further because these players would literally never leave that area and lots of people would just make a new character on the non-PVP servers.

Josh double barrel Hayes: Flexing muscles and lifting weights. Asmon: Eyebrow wiggle

@mr.serperior7002

2 жыл бұрын

bro every time he watches josh's video he becomes more nervous i swear

@michaincerti3210

2 жыл бұрын

@@mr.serperior7002 good

@jordanallen3078

2 жыл бұрын

@@mr.serperior7002 straight men tend to get weird around other men that happen to be sexy. They're scared that merely noticing a sexually appealing man, that might mean they're gay. Silly hets. 🤭

@bronntoise

2 жыл бұрын

@@jordanallen3078 Damn, nice psychoanalysis

@jordanallen3078

2 жыл бұрын

@@bronntoise Can't tell if you're bring serious or not. That wasn't my intention. It's just an observation based on decades of experience with hetero bros. 😆

Watching Asmon cringing during the 'finance' section was pure... gold!

@PhoenE

2 жыл бұрын

I see what you did there

@JL-zg5bk

2 жыл бұрын

pure bald*

@coryspann5774

2 жыл бұрын

Pure asmonGOLD??????

@trd-

2 жыл бұрын

I C

I think it would be cool as hell if there were a wildy in New World with a few nice resource spawns deep in the zone. Similarly balanced to OSRS where you don't feel like you have to farm there, but the incentive exists for adventurous people willing to take a risk. You also keep players that are interested in full loot pvp happy and able to find fights.

I will never understand wanting to play a game by touching a tiny screen.

I feel like runescape did full loot PVP well. It was only in specific zones. There was also mini games like capture the flag where when you die you just respawn, no item loss.

@RRapierre

2 жыл бұрын

I played those lol. I guarantee you players didn't play Soul Wars, Fist of Guthix, Stealing Creation, Castle Wars, Bounty Hunter just for PvP. That's barely true. Those games were popular because the rewards were fuckin amazing. Remove the rewards shop and everyone stops playing. Heck even in Duel Arena, people and scammers didn't play for pure PvP. They did it to get your shit or to bet. You had people cheesing the combat mechanics or changing the duel settings without the opponent noticing in order to steal your stuff with the least amount of fighting

@ruukinen

2 жыл бұрын

@@RRapierre I defo played Castle wars just for the enjoyment. The fact they had rewards does not preclude the fact that they are fun.

@Pickysticks

2 жыл бұрын

@@RRapierre Wildy was plenty popular. And optional.

@zeikers

2 жыл бұрын

@@RRapierre this is completely untrue. Clan Wars was more popular then all of those game modes and there was zero rewards. If you were a real RS player you’d never say castle wars rewards were good lmao

@Cbd_7ohm

2 жыл бұрын

@@RRapierre castle wars had shit rewards

Well done to Strife for making a video to show he's jacked.

All this is very true. One member in my clan across several games played for the sole purpose of “Trauma”. it didn’t matter if he got the loot or if he died, as long as the other person lost something valuable, died, or became pissed off.

@alejandrorivas4585

2 жыл бұрын

Thats the kind of person I genuinely think needs fucking therapy

@acemaster3339

2 жыл бұрын

It makes the genre. Harder to enjoy

I never watched any of your content before, but I just wanted to say that I appreciate you keeping in sponsored spots from the original video, and even linking to their ref links in the description.

I remember when I played PlanetSide 2 (online FPS with many hundreds split in three factions that fight for control of areas over a large map) I always joined the faction that was in the worst possible position. It was fun holding back sieges against the other two factions and using choke points to defend from attackers because there were 3-4 times more enemies than allies in a specific base/control point.

@Air4563

2 жыл бұрын

Not sure if you have played recently, but they added a new faction you can play as called the NSO. You are basically a robot that does exactly what you described: join the faction that has the least pop on a given continent. Would recommend checking it out again, especially during the summer event!

@arforafro5523

2 жыл бұрын

PS2 is not an MMO tho, yea you got your upgrades and weapons to level up and equip but for the most part new players are not in a tremendous disadvantage when joining a fight and you dont lose anything once you die. PS2 works like a bigger Battlefield match with some extra added strategy first and foremost.

@sjwoo13

2 жыл бұрын

@@arforafro5523 uh. Ps2 is definitely an mmo lmfao. Massive. Multiplayer. Online.

@TheLol33656

2 жыл бұрын

@@arforafro5523 It is exactly an MMO then, it is just not really an RPG

@faone.3404

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheLol33656 r/whoosh

The problem is time sink. Many MMO's don't give you the enjoyable experience unless you devote time in front of a PC in your home with internet. Compare that to a simple 23 minute hulu show or 45 minute series. The great thing about WoW debut was that progress in its quest system was something you could do fairly quickly.

I came back to this video specifically because now that NW has been out for 5 months ish, we can see how Josh was absolutely correct. The player base has dropped significantly. Yes lots of that is due to bugs and poor game performance, however on my server, the player base itself is struggling to even get along within the factions. There is infighting and constant bickering. Add in new twitch streamers looking to build viewers based on conflict, and it's pretty much a toxic shit show, complete with, "(faction) is just the worst and we need to teach them a lesson", narratives being promoted. It's getting rather pathetic. Josh pointed out that hardcore PvP communities are not great for sustaining a MMO forever game, and he's right. Even after the server merge, the more casual players remain unflagged, and the sweaty Eddy hardcore players get bored very fast. I like the idea behind NW, but if compelling content, (PvP related or otherwise), isn't added soon, the server populations are just going to fizzle out. Will NW survive? I have no idea. No Man Sky turned things around, so who knows what's possible.

@ikikaera3402

2 жыл бұрын

I think comparing No Man's Sky to MMOs isn't that viable. No Man's Sky is primarily a singleplayer game and no matter how many players were playing it at any given point, your experience would be unchanged. Whether it's 10 or 100.000 players, you'll experience the game as it was meant to be. Now looking at New World, it becomes basically unplayable once the player number drops below a certain threshold. You will not be able to engage with most of the content and you'll be forced to pay for a server transfer once your server starts dying off. There's people who have had to pay multiple times because their servers keep dying. That server transfer is also a double edged sword. While it is a solution, it also makes the same problem even worse because now you're losing players even faster and a remaining player is forced to make a decision between; - Quit the game - Play on a dying server and be unable to engage with most of the content - Pay up 15 bucks to play on a (for now) populated server And the fact that New World is in such a state is pushing people away from giving it a try. It's the price of a full AAA game which many aren't willing to pay for an experience that they're not sure will last much longer. With No Man's Sky, not only was it significantly cheaper you could also "Yarr" it in order to give it a quick try and see how the game's progressed. Like it? Buy it. Don't like it? Uninstall and move on, no harm done. I really hope New World can succeed too, but the odds are stacked very high against AGS. Will they make New World their first success story or will it be another one for the large pile of failures that this studio has amassed? Who knows..

We had this discussions years ago on private Ultima Online servers. It was always the cycle: new server -> a lot of players -> players are getting strong enough to kill other players -> retention because couple "reds" are killing newbies and role playing players -> new server

To add further to the "guy stealing your sword" thing, it's bad enough that it only takes 3 seconds for that guy and his two friends to mug it off of you, but even worse is how long it took YOU to acquire that sword through grinding in the "regular" game. If I played a game where it took me hours every day to farm this one ultra rare super sword for 5 days and one PVP fight where I got unfairly ganked by 3 guys made me lose it, you can bet your ASS I would quit forever. That's not thin skin that's absolutely shitty game design (in my personal, subjective opinion).

I literally just watched the video now here Asmon is

@krackalgleason4746

2 жыл бұрын

Same

@z0dman83

2 жыл бұрын

Doesn't that imply that you are at Asmongold house, at his desk, on his pc ?

@thegamingfish547

2 жыл бұрын

same was thinking “this would be a cool video to see asmon’s thoughts on

@tomasjonsson7141

2 жыл бұрын

Same i started watch this dude thx to asmon =)

@TrwuKiNg

2 жыл бұрын

@ Just Some Guy without a Mustache Didn't expect to see you here...

My issue with PvP is time. To be good you have to put in the time and practice. But if I only have few hours per week I will never catch up to someone who has 10+ hours per day of practice. Nor do I want to spend months of spare time playing a game just to be ok (i.e. still routinely spanked). Enjoy your PvP, but fun trumps frustration every time.

@SereneAncalime

2 жыл бұрын

My most funny take is that most people calling for PvP games claim they want it to be skill based yet most so called MMO or Open world RPGs PvP games skill has 0 impact and it's just all.about your numbers even the ones they try to point to as oh we wish it was like this

I think haardcore full loot makes sense in sessions. You get into an arena, there you can use all you get,, and after that you get some ingame currency for example based on how long you survived and which items you had at the end of that session. And that you can use to get better in the rest of the Game, which is mostly pve. Like honor in WoW, just with earning, crafting and looting beeing implemented in the BG.

turn on KZread : asmongold reacts to new mmos. turn on tv : asmongold reacts to news. turn on window : asmongold reacts to nature. opens fridge : asmongold reacts why are you eating trash.

@Bear-form

2 жыл бұрын

Asmobombed

@-Nick-T

2 жыл бұрын

same, but i binge and smile

I remember my first MMO. It was Ultima Online, way back at the beginning. I was a brand new first-level character. I had a sword and no armor, just newbie clothes, and I walked a few steps out of the gate and was ganked by four players who were farming newbs brand new characters for the 1 gold or whatever you get to start out with. That sucked. And they did that to so many brand new players. After a while, their bags got full so they just threw the stuff all over the road, as all they wanted was the gold. I wonder how many quit the game without even trying it that day.

@valravnsshadow9422

2 жыл бұрын

I remember being in a guild where we would kill people and then resurrect them under the condition of locking their items and porting them to our abse area to go farm trees and shit for us. We'd keep them prisoner and wouldn't return the items until they farmed a certain amount of resources for us.

@vissermatt1058

2 жыл бұрын

@@valravnsshadow9422 so u instituted slavery.... wow what a fucking advertisement for this shit genre

@nulltheworm

2 жыл бұрын

I was one of those new players. I quit the game instantly. The following year, EverQuest came out. I made friends in game, adventures, took on vampire lords, and then slayed some dragons. And I enjoyed it. Because nobody made it their goal in life to ruin my time and effort.

@lewsee5562

2 жыл бұрын

@@vissermatt1058 If I was that "prisoner," I'd just delete my character and make a new one. If same thing happens again, then I'll quit. Hardcore PVP MMOs really bring out the worst of people huh

@martinabernathy205

2 жыл бұрын

@@nulltheworm I made some friends in Ultima Online but after a few months, we all moved to Everquest. UO was so toxic that, for all its faults, Everquest was like a breath of fresh air. I stuck with Everquest until WoW came out.

Thank you Asmon for your commentary on this because this has been a problem my gaming friends have noticed over time; when they quit, I'm less motivated to progress in whatever we're playing because of that, which causes me to jump games and essentially waste time. Such as Valheim or WoW Shadowlands for example , where the progression gets a little bit grindy. It's a fools wish to think i could ever complete worthwhile, valuable content for my character without friends understanding I'm new or without friends playing because they know the games have become these monopolies for poor game design built on microtransactions. Where mobile games seem to differ is they allow you a streamlined path that is much more acheiveable over time but requires an even harder grind - and much pricier mtx cost on the player if they want to get further faster. Money grabs and weird design. It's why I enjoy story driven games where it's literally up to me and the world challenges the game delivers to ultimately conquer the game and make the progression in a realistic fashion; like dark souls- where, once I'm good, I can enter PVP and be relatively on par in a fight even if I'm casual

@yankokassinof6710

2 жыл бұрын

if you ever consider single player retro metroidvania, play Timespinner on Hard+ difficulty, game isnt the most amazing combat wise but story is super well done with the progression, i payed the equivallent of 2 dollars in my country for it (10 R$ BRL) its just super worth it, 12 hour playtrough

Idea - Faction Proportionate Balancing, aka Conservation of Ninjutsu more players in a faction on a server, reduced xp/loot/"honor" ratio; past X faction population ratio, ratio reduction affects combat or something

Don't mind grabbing gear in Valheim. It is the skill deprogression that was killer, because one mistake would remove hours of progression. I wouldn't even mind it if it was for the current weapon I was using, but losing mining/tree cutting progression, sneak, and other things that take a lot of time to level became exhausting if you didn't just game every battle.

@mranderson4001

2 жыл бұрын

Just cheat. It’s a sandbox

@rahn45

2 жыл бұрын

Losing 10% of all your built up stats certainly hurts when you're at 70 points in stuff compared to being only 10 points in stuff. It's a little silly when the more careful you are the more punishing the game is to you dying.

@MartinWoad

2 жыл бұрын

@@rahn45 The problem is that people spend too much time worrying about not dying instead of spending it on focusing their efforts not to die. Just learn from your mistakes and think less about how the system works underneath.

@vinrenu1389

2 жыл бұрын

I believe there is a mod that fixes that. To me the skill loss really killed pvp on the multiplayer server I play on. We had great fun with duels and pvp-tournaments but players would not attend anymore because of skill loss...

The thing about phone games that generates so much money is the fact that anyone can be anywhere and still play. If you were heading out of town for a vacation as long as you're not the driver you can play on the trip, on the destination and even while using the toilet.

@MonsterTeegs

2 жыл бұрын

Not to mention EVERYONE has or gets a phone in their teens, if not by the time they're an adult. These machines are basically given away for free at this point so of course games on them are more popular than games on something that only adults with steady jobs can really afford.

@DarthZ01

2 жыл бұрын

If you cant use your pc on the toilet your setup isnt hardcore enough.

so when i opt out of pvp inside towns in new world, does that opt out status apply out in the world or just in and around towns?

conquerors blade is an amazing game and i got decently far in it with a guild (i dont think there called that in the game.) the only reason i stopped playing after 3 months or so is the fact that the gear permanently breaks after a while. so if i was going to a battle i would take worse gear and only keep the best gear i had for the hardest battles because every game would cause permanent damage to the gear until it broke and then i had to get all new gear. it was a real grind to even get the higher mid tier gear. i havent played it since 2019 so maybe it changed but idk. at least in wow i could get the best gear and keep in the whole time until better gear came out 6 months later

I like the section where asmon talks about Rust in relation to these FFA full-loot MMOs. Crafting survival games, whether it's rust, arc, or even Minecraft, have what these people are looking for by default, but if you log onto any number of open servers, you'll find so many anti-griefing measures that eliminate these mechanics. 1 out of ten servers will allow something like total anarchy. I dont think there is dedicated development of PVP centric MMOs that could develop answers to the problems of griefing in these PVP style games. Answers that aren't simply removing the style of gameplay these PVPers are looking for or just nullifying the point of that style of gameplay.

@TheNewton

2 жыл бұрын

The greifing has to be embraced to the extent that the more you grief the easier it becomes to get griefed. Almost all games go the other direction trying to suppress grieifng that the meta becomes using specific griefs/exploits and shuts down new players who cannot access the same power level of grief.

At 28 years old... I'm officially too old to really invest in games. Feels bad man.

@MalonzeProductionsGaming

2 жыл бұрын

I turn 28 in a few months. Welder full time. And art hobbies on the side. I still play video games. I havent lately because i havent found a game worth playing. If i play i want to put hours into it. Have a reason to play every day. I thought i found that in conan exiles but i had way to many drama issues that prevents me from returning. (Example. I hate wipe servers. I join a server and ask if they wipe at all before i grind a bunch. They said no they dont wipe. So i grind for 2-3 days for alot of shit. Only to wake up to a discord message saying they are wiping. I wrote a 2 paragraph post on how that is misleading and i was pissed off cause im losing all of that work I did. After saying they dont wipe. i got banned for bein"toxic" fuckers)

@mranderson4001

2 жыл бұрын

Pokemon unite is only 10 mins or 5 min matches. If u got or will have kids, I’m sure they’ll love it too

@sjwoo13

2 жыл бұрын

Nah. You're too poor. If you were rich and didn't have to work anymore, you would definitely still be playing. Unless you find no more enjoyment in games which is a different story.

@mranderson4001

2 жыл бұрын

@@sjwoo13 yo, chill kim jong un

@MalonzeProductionsGaming

2 жыл бұрын

@@sjwoo13 i dont think that has anything to do with it. Some people are poor and all they do is play games. Some are so rich they dont need to work. But you have some who CHOOSE to do other things then video games. Then they complain they cant or dont have time. Its like. Dude. Make time. There are many people who have full time jobs and family and still mythic raid in wow. The only exception i think is graveyard shift. Unless its part time. When i part time graveyard it was amazing. I stayed up all night on my days off cause my nights were my days. So i could raid all night till 9 am then sleep till 7 pm and go to work

Full loot is fine if they have a high security and low security area. High security missions might involve stepping briefly into low security, with a warning for the player. They might learn how to evade enemy players that way. Eve online handled it pretty well. If it were medieval game, you might spec stealth and vision skills or get a fast horse whatever, in order to evade danger.

@Gamerad360

Ай бұрын

Exactly

There was this korean mmo called rf online that did the pvp very well. It was small but it's a 3 way against races, so even if you're a new guy, you have a 3rd of the player ase to defend you in those pk zones.

@nhifuu

2 жыл бұрын

Rf would have been better if enhancing wasn't as gay as BDO lol

"I've never played a first person melee combat game that I thought was good" Meanwhile me with almost 3k hours in Chivalry...

@xursed7990

2 жыл бұрын

@@alextyler5631 mortal online 2 is pretty much that. Asmonbald hates it but I honestly love it. 100% worth checking out.

@windwalker000

2 жыл бұрын

Is beyblade still the only way?

@kimhunter6733

2 жыл бұрын

Hasn't played vermintide

Hardcore PvP MMORPG seems interesting at first glance, but the reality is that the inflow of new users is stopped and the game is ruined as existing users frequently slaughter new users. Age of Conan was like this.

@coloneltungsten

2 жыл бұрын

I was guilty of exactly this in Mortal Online and you are correct. That is exactly what ended up happening.

@acemaster3339

2 жыл бұрын

Why can't hardcore games not be like this? Why do egos ruin so many otherwise good things?

Pvp is always fun, until you get smoked and stand 0 chance and on top lose gear that either cost a ton of time or money to obtain. If that happens you instantly lose interest. The key is finding a way to maintain balance, value the time put in and time lost. A layered issue that I don’t have an perfect answer for it but pvp is objectively fun. It’s the systems that ruin it or lack thereof… players will always exploit the systems to their advantage and nothing will change that. But to be honest competitive and balanced systems with the focus being on FUN will usually triumph

Telvar in eso is a good example of a currency that is gained thru pvp and also risked thru pvp. An alternative to gold in a way could be used as an incentive rather then weapons and items. Telvar works with a multiplier, the more you carry on you, the more you can gain from killing an enemy.

If you depend on your players to make the content, and you only attract a destructive playerbase, you can imagine the content you'll get

@ellescer

2 жыл бұрын

destruction is beautiful just look at eve

@michaelanazodo7231

2 жыл бұрын

Beautiful content

@youtubeistryingtocensorme

Жыл бұрын

@@ellescer fuck EVE. Why would I ever play a game where I would have to use an Excel spreadsheet to be successful

I played EQ under those rules.... People didn't leave planes of power until LDoN even then it was LFG pop you in and pop you back to PoP... I only killed 2 people out in the wild one was a gold seller that had 2mill plat on him and the buyer that had 3 plat on him... After that I never left PoP without my pocket Druid following me.

Full loot is fine in some areas of the map. It also shouldnt be full loot drop either maybe if you go into those zones with battle gear but if you go into those zones with harvesting or farming gear then you shouldnt have to lose your gear, maybe a small amount of what you gathered but as a vendor equivilant, not in gathered materials.

Small bit, but I thought it was cool that Asmond watched the ad portion. Also interesting to see a reaction video that agreed with the first video and expounded on its points. In theory, I like the idea of first-person melee, but I have to agree that at least the gameplay Asmond didn't like that came up in this video didn't look very good.

As a eve online player I love the full sandbox game and that most everything is player built and when it can all be destroyed it really makes you join with others for safety as well as taking down the larger stronger player. But you are correct it takes a type of player base. But I love the fact that for the most part I'm not "safe" when playing.

@ellemnist

2 жыл бұрын

i think thats what people are missing, some people in eve love the full on hardcore pvp. While some people want to spend most of the time playing space trucker. Or space industrialist. and just save up for that pvp encounter. I do love the mantra of only fly what you can afford to loose. Which eve does give players a chance to do so. You are only loosing that one ship on that encounter. You still have your saved up resource and other ships on low sec space. Loose that frigate? no problem, just go back to mining or pve to get it back.

@youtubeistryingtocensorme

Жыл бұрын

You’re a sado masochist. I refuse to play a game that requires me to use spreadsheets to be successful

Idk man, Albion Online is fantastic but they have areas to PvP where you don't lose all your loot also. Oldschool RuneScape is also struggling a little right now because of the lack of PvP updates. I quit playing OSRS because all I wanted to do was PvP but to get to that point you need to grind hundreds of hours to build a decent account. The great thing about Albion as a PvP'er is that you don't have to do much PvE at all if you don't want to as the silver you earn from PvP can be used to buy Tomes which will progress your gear.

@phantomvulpe791

2 жыл бұрын

I don't play pvp in osrs but if I recall a ton of players fight in wilderness or pvp servers

@Anger

2 жыл бұрын

Well, for Albion online majority of people will go to the full loot PvP zone. Because the exp and drop is double compare to the safty zone. It's not even worth anytime stay in safty zone. You may be killed by others, but in long-term you get more exp and drops.

@LoadingMeerkat

2 жыл бұрын

@@phantomvulpe791 A ton of players used to fight in the wilderness and PvP servers. Of course there's still people there but there's a heck of a lot less people there than they used to be. I contacted a staff member at Jagex (people who made RuneScape) to do something about the barrier to entry for PvP and gave them ideas to make it more accessible but that was like a year ago so I'm not sure we'll see those changes.

@LoadingMeerkat

2 жыл бұрын

@@Anger Ye that's true but those safe zones are perfect for learning how to PvP or have fun while gaining at least some fame and silver. You can also get good PvP gear in Albion for quite cheap compared to other MMO's so it isn't as big of a deal if you do die.

@phantomvulpe791

2 жыл бұрын

@@LoadingMeerkat there's another pvp mode but it's an arena but uhhh...I never done it but that shit has some shady gambling going on there best avoid them

I can't get on board with games that combine PvE progression with always-on-PvP. Opting into PvP is akin to participating in a sport: everyone is focused on the (somewhat fair) competition and takes time out of their lives to participate. Getting jumped while trying to progress in PvE is like walking down the street to work and having some rando throw a brick at your head. There's nothing desirable in the experience for you and the vast majority of people have no desire to start preemptively chucking bricks at people themselves and will choose to walk a different route next time instead. But hey, everyone needs to play what they like. I'll certainly spend my money on stuff that gives a sense of progression or sportsmanship.

@gonzalocianci6105

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, i have been plaing rust for some time and a couple of years back when You found a naked and You were naked You could be like "ey, do You wanna be a team?" But now it's intant agresión, it's preventive agresión(?)

29:08 I recognize on some level, a game is always going to be there to relax and waste time, but I don't like it when a game makes me feel like it's going out of its way to waste my time and effort.

on tibia, a whole guild transfers their alts and some main characters to a server dominated by other guild only to wipe that guild from the server on a war and claim the server, it usually costs U$20.000 to do the whole transfer services and powerleveling supplies until the guild take the server when the guild dominates the server, they start charging the guildless players real money in order to keep leveling their characters, and only the dominant guild players are able to share the best places in game to make money to buy tibia coins and sell in real life as a neutral guildless you cannot join on world bosses, cannot do quests without paying, and check this, you have to pay to the guild if you want to livestream on "their" server

@famaffe

2 жыл бұрын

How do they enforce that though? I mean what can they do if I decided to do a world boss or stream the game? I’ve never played the game so I don’t know how it’s possible to force people to pay real money. Let me know!

@loval9924

2 жыл бұрын

Its a open world, if they see you there you are dead, if you dont do allí they said you are constantly in target like a gang and cannot do anything... Hunt leveling quest nothing, when you llave protección zone you are dead xd

@Zdekoms

2 жыл бұрын

And this happens even in No-PvP servers, they wont let people hunt if you arent part of "dominando" guild lmao, dogshit game. But makes money for some

@josecampos7157

2 жыл бұрын

Somewhat similar in Old School RuneScape wilderness pvp clans had Venezuelan gold farmers pay for "protection" at the revenant dungeon. But eventually they got fed up with their "protectors" and starting taking over servers and killing anyone from the pvp clans. The things you do when you need to play to eat.

@famaffe

2 жыл бұрын

@@josecampos7157 I dont even see how a game that functions that was is even alive. I would have quit that game in a heartbeat

I’ve thought about a “soul-chain” mechanic that could help with games like these. High-level mythical items farmed in a dungeon or PVE instance gets tethered to your players soul and can’t be used by any other player and can easily be tracked down within the world.

@zuterwer1835

2 жыл бұрын

Nice idea. Only that you're removing the full loot aspect. You're again going towards a more casual playerbase.

@cadeconville1563

2 жыл бұрын

@@zuterwer1835 I'm trying to think of a system where all of the other loot is, well lootable. And the only thing that stays with you is something you had to skillfully attain not craft or just find in the open world. It's just a hard system to try and balance for casual vs. hardcore players. As Asmon says the reason the games die is because the casuals are stepped on and pushed out. There's nothing wrong with playing that way obviously but this is the crux of game design, how to keep the most people happy.

Played all the full loot games over 15 years and you are both absolutely right on with your analysis.

All they would have to do is keep the factions balanced set limits based on how many people are playing and evenly distribute players on to factions by making faction that have to many people unavailing to select similar to a full server

tarkov is a hardcore pvp game and it's actually quite good, but obviously it appeals to a different kind of player

@hunter123207

2 жыл бұрын

I love tarkov, but you basically have to hate yourself to enjoy it

@uWAVES

2 жыл бұрын

It's instance based, not open world. That's why it works. When tarkov becomes fully open world map-to-map travel, we'll see how the player base stands when 90% of people are just going to be camping extracts.

@doncare8

2 жыл бұрын

@@uWAVES I actually think its going to continue to be instance based maps because i don't think they will get rid of the timers of the instances. you will just reach another area and have to wait for more people to load into that map. .. god map to map travel is gonna be a cluster fuck when they implement it. they might have to redo insurance so when you die you don't fucking cry after the next day

I always play Hardcore whenever I play Diablo games, but the moment I die, after however many weeks or months, I quit. I return every now and then, because I enjoy the thrill, but losing all your progress is just too much of a gut punch.

@slimfastsubaru2043

2 жыл бұрын

Played d3 hc once died to a lag spike at 2:36 in the morning pushing 122 . With the trash servers of blizzard how can anyone hc

@peterbabicki8252

2 жыл бұрын

@A Bell Ah, smart thinking.

dayz was amazing. Back in the day I played with a clan and working hard for everything and when things get dangerous your heart was pounding

MMOs need to be designed with seasonal resets in mind especially hard core pvp mmos. I think the biggest issue is gaps in progression between newer and older players with the only breaks given to causal players being new expansion releases or paying to bypass progression altogether.

"when a game makes players feel free they're wasting their time, that's when they quit" PoE did this with the latest round of nerfs and I gotta tell ya, I'm loving my time in FFXIV.

@RRapierre

2 жыл бұрын

@@roccoheat8662 you realize combat isnt the only thing in FFXIV? Lmao most people's goal is to hit max then collect, then glamour. 80 in all classes and 80 in all DoL/DoH, then do all raids, then get all minions and mounts, then glamour yourself, then maybe glamour your house. Just look at Asmongold himself, he's a man who lives for his mount collection. He's the guy who collects all of a Rust server's horses and shows his collection to xqc. Asmongold watched a video on stream about FFXIV player hierarchy, Idk what it's called but it's on his channel. Players who play for the combat were near the bottom of the pyramid, and players at the top were the ones who spend real money to glamour everything because they did everything, and splurge on house parties in their end-game crafting guild/FC. MMOs aren't all about PvP, anyone who thinks that will always be disappointed. Also, PoE is almost nothing like WoW, RS, ESO, or FFXIV. PoE and Diablo are ARPG, where combat is 90% of the content on 8 abilities lmao. Of course people who just want to fight play ARPGs, FPS, Battle Royales, MOBAs, etc. People forget that the latter half of MMORPG is RPG, and if combat-only players shit on other players who just want to RP as a fisherman quartermastering for his questing guild, then they're pathetic. Let them fish

@johnnyveng4014

2 жыл бұрын

@@roccoheat8662 yeah but the flask nerf broke my PoE addiction.

@RRapierre

2 жыл бұрын

@@masterpain7742 Lmao fucker WoW barely even have housing. FFXIV has a different endgame than WoW. Endgame in FFXIV is completionist house with max mounts and minions and all glamours for armor and house. You can't complete the game without completing your house because a lot of items for your house are from extreme loot pools. Endgame in FFXIV is not raiding. Fuck off

hardcore pvp mmo's biggest issue is always going to be zerg guilds. This by itself ruins any kind of pvp mmo unless there's some kind of safeguard against it. Personally I enjoyed being in the smaller guilds who fight the zergs and win but for most players they wont enjoy that and will just join the zerg guilds which eventually kill their servers cause people will either join them or quit or leave the server. It is hard to make an mmo that doesnt turn into this type of situation. Zergs will ruin every new MMO that has aspirations of siege combat including New World and AoC especially on streamer servers. Only real way to try to make it work is instance based combat with maximum participant limit per side but that in itself kind of defeats the goal of those games.

@kapeecoffee

2 жыл бұрын

Have you played albion?

@artfiguretheone7129

2 жыл бұрын

@@kapeecoffee fuck ARCH. only noobs

@kapeecoffee

2 жыл бұрын

@@artfiguretheone7129 join good small pvp guild not big zergs

@kapeecoffee

2 жыл бұрын

@@KorakBrosepf if you play albion for a long time you will know which places are for small groups,solos or bigger groups

@NOFOCKYOU

2 жыл бұрын

@@kapeecoffee I've played older pvp games like Shadowbane, DaoC, warhammer online, vanguard, wildstar etc. And there i played in the smaller higher quality player pvp guilds but like the game that stands out for me that people are trying to replicate is Shadowbane even tho alot have never heard of it. There u could literally destroy people's towns and NPCs that take weeks to upgrade. And there when ur guild of like 30-40 people gets zerged by 100-200 people u were kinda fucked. This is going to happen in like any siege pvp type of game because u cant stop people from zerging and people who don't want a challenge will always just go with the zerg.

I played 5-6 years on few free ultima online servers. Adrenaline rush during pvp was amazing. Since then I played many different mmo's and none of them can give you that feeling.

Yes! When something feels like a waste of time you stop doing it obviously! That's what I did when I tried the sightseeing log in ffxiv. I felt like it was a waste of time, so I stopped doing it.

As much as I like PvP, it tends to ruin games if everything is based or balanced around it, Especially when it comes to mmos.

@Notorious224

2 жыл бұрын

True, only P2W pvp games will thrive.

@holy8782

2 жыл бұрын

It can spiral down very quickly. I still remember a mmo I played where you need to do this chain to unlock your special ability. Of course, this also is an open pvp zone and people can kill you the moment you load into the area. It got really old really fast when you load in to see 4 people instantly attacking you.

@itsatentaquil3152

2 жыл бұрын

Cough *Destiny* Cough

@frankskive

2 жыл бұрын

Eve online being the exception to this

@rickroll9705

2 жыл бұрын

same i love pvp in mmos but the mmo design isnt really that good for pvp, look at current wow, you have to grind weeks or months to play something in legion all you had to do was just queue and play your char. Eve? big ships kill you first sight. runescape? dude has 1000 consumables. Albion? zergy af. Gw2 is the only fun one nowdays and even FFXIV you can just hop on nowadays and be happy.

The only bad experience I had in a hardcore pvp mmo was Albion online when there was literally a horde of BR's waiting to gank me in a red zone, I quit that shit pretty fast.

@artfiguretheone7129

2 жыл бұрын

Albion is awesome. Never played hardcore PvP, but when they released Faction Warfare and i was in Thetford we rose from last place to first in one season because we came together, made a discord (no other faction had one, i asked) and had help from RAQ. It was an awesome game experience.

@escarretada

2 жыл бұрын

Yes that is one of the few mmorpg left

@youtubeistryingtocensorme

Жыл бұрын

I quit Albion within five minutes of playing it. Didn’t encounter anybody

archeage actually did a really good job of the hardcore aspect in my opinion, and it had a large playerbase too, the hardcore pvp was more centered around ocean pvp content and faction vs faction.

@youtubeistryingtocensorme

Жыл бұрын

Large player base according to whom? Its nowhere near PvE mmos.

@brendon96068

Жыл бұрын

@@youtubeistryingtocensorme maybe not but a game doesn't need to have wow peak numbers to have a large playerbase, bdo is one of the currently most populated mmos despite being pvp, ashes is also heavily inspired by archeage as that used to be Steven's main mmo

pvp in tibia has best drop mechanics you drop your backpack and theres a chance to drop some or few pieces of equipment, but you can buy blessings so u dont drop your items. the blessings doesnt work when you kill too many players and get red skull:)

Thumbnail: when you beat the boss but the music doesn't stop

“I hate when people bring in facts.” I love based sarcastic Asmon. (“You mean, Asmon?”) When the purpose of a game is to get others to quit, you get a majority of toxicity in a community. A Tolkien-esk realm mmorpg with that level of toxicity requires a special type of degenerate tribalism for which the world might not be ready to tolerate.

I feel there should be an item in pvp games like wow where it’s optional, that permanently turns pvp on for the player but gives massive bonuses that makes the risk worth it , only one in the game and you have to kill the player to receive the item. Nobody knows who has it so he’s not spammed, only people will know thru socializing or seeing him in person they maybe a pointer on his head or something. Maybe even sent into a 1v1 dial when someone Argos him so you can’t gang up, 2v1 since he has op weapon. Idk just a little concept

Yeah I play casual pve WoW content. My guild is progressing through heroic still. Highest key I’ve done is a 17. A hardcore pvp game like that sounds like a nightmare.

I think many of the players that gravitate toward these kinds of games are the type that would stick around in a long-dead game (or forum, for that matter) just they can be the king of their own private molehill. They're not the most skilled players out there, but they know that if they just stick it out long enough they will gain bragging rights simply because the truly competitive-minded and talented players will move on to the next big game.

I remember playing Ultima Online when i was a child and if u die and lose all ur gear, u can easily buy basic gear to go pvp again, farming the best was not mandatory to enjoy pvp, and the people wearing the best looking gear and going pvp with that was like gods of the servers. The success of UO (imo) is that if u were a good player u can win pvp with cheap gear against a bad player with full farmed gear.

@sirachman

2 жыл бұрын

@@thevoxdeus That is a game design problem. It can be fixed and was in many private servers. It was also done great in other games. The issue is that many people seem to think it is impossible

@randomanon8408

2 жыл бұрын

@@sirachman How was it fixed? You state that it's been solved, but declined to remark what the solution actually was.

@kazineverwind5267

2 жыл бұрын

@@thevoxdeus The failure of UO was the release of Trammel. Then suddenly there was no reason to go to Felucia when you could just grind dragons in Destard safely.

@sirachman

2 жыл бұрын

@@randomanon8408 People have written huge essay length blog posts and made hours long videos about it. The point I am making is that people share an opinion without doing any research or playing any of these type of games which were good. There are so many specif things needed to solve these issues, new player protection, incentives for legacy players to teach and guide new players, lots of horizontal progression, gear that doesn't give massive advantage, fun fluff items crafting and quests that allow mmo progression without building excessive pvp power creep, territorial capture/claim/buildup/loss/war/siege mechanics that are balanced well to incentivize an active community, and so much more.

A game like that needs a world building dimention You can't expect any player to be online all the time and offline your stuff gets destroyed If you find a way to give player created things more permanance (witouth cluthering the world) and a use to other players it has a chance You'll also need a friendly aesthetic to encourage good behaviour Or make enemy npcs deadlier than other players forcing them together but you'll need to maintain a decent player base for that

Even Minecraft as an option to turn dropping items off and it's a game that is actually well desinged around losing items as resourse magment is a huge compent of the game desing.

These games remove the social contract that creates a functional society. That is the point. Philosopher Thomas Hobbes described what a world like this would be "which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." Why would this be fun?

@reperfan4

2 жыл бұрын

It would be fun if you were at the top of the food chain. But for the 99% of other people not there...

So Old School Runescape, the pvp system & clans do the most fucked up shit you can think of, also illegal, just to win and make the competition join them or quit.

@Froggeh92

2 жыл бұрын

In a nut shell why anarchy sucks lol

@baconsoup8346

2 жыл бұрын

reason why laws exist.

I'd say if you want such a game you would have to try and copy the gameplay loop of a rogue like. I think I actually played something like that once. It was a top down "RPG" where if you died you lost your character. But the gameplay was really fast paced and a bit bullet hell like. If you got to a certain point you could unlock new classes to begin as. This way even if you die you keep some progression

ive played albion on and off since the beginning of it, and i really liked it, but after countless times of goin solo to just chop wood in black zones and getting killed by hunting groups over and over i just stopped. few hours you chop trees, you get killed and you loose a loot worth a day.

The problem with people who want this is that they imagine a hardcore PvP experience where they can dominate like, 80% or more of players, either because they’re not trying to PvP or they’re much lower level. In a game that draws those people and has hardcore no flagging PvP, especially if it’s centrally focused on it, those players who aren’t good just aren’t going to play it. So you’re really only going to be playing mostly similarly skilled players and that’s not as fun to a lot of them as trolling low level and bad players.

@raspernor11

2 жыл бұрын

It's 100% why MOBA smurfing is a thing. You don't FEEL like you are in the top 10% of skilled players if you only play people of your own rank, and it just ruins it for everyone else involved when you are out of place in the ranking.

I’m so so sad Last Oasis died like this. It felt like it had one of the most unique game mechanics ever and could of grown into a juggernaut. It started off with 60k players, now it’s just 300. I hope that a last oasis 2 comes out that isn’t full PVP or that a new dev makes a game with massive walkers that you could build homes on, the stability of combat on a mech going 20MPH while people are boarding you etc. Man, I miss that feeling.

@RageofHades

2 жыл бұрын

And now it has private servers. Which is something it should've had to begin with. Darkside is about to unleash its private server of LO. So don't be afraid to look it up.

14:23 suddenly getting flashbacks of that scene in HunterxHunter XD

There certainly is a loud group of players who claim they want hardcore PVP in every online game. But the player numbers don't lie, majority of people don't want that. Games with PVP only keep dying or have tiny player numbers.