That style actually looks similar to Winx club which is a popular and was a popular show. The artstyle was all about the waist but this art style knows how to draw, they made the waist that and does sympathy with the people who attacked them which shows how professional are they

@DuchessCelestia

2 жыл бұрын

yeah, exactly!! it’s a distinct style, and not even an uncommon one

@vanillachocolate1068

2 жыл бұрын

me too I thought of that

@PurpleAmharicCoffee

2 жыл бұрын

I've been drawing in that style for years, and received very little backlash (only a couple of negative comments here and there, but my art was also not very good.) Britney looks like Stella here. While drawing the style, my body shape stayed consistently at potato.

@childeofepickness

Жыл бұрын

@@PurpleAmharicCoffee I’ve been drawing in that style for a while now and my bodies look like potatoes 😭

@ameliaroseillustrations

8 ай бұрын

Bloom was actually inspired by Britney Spears (in case anyone was interested) ✨✨ But yes, I hear a lot of people talk about how the Winx club girls all have the same body type, but they were supposed to be fashion dolls, and most doll brands keep a consistent body type because it’s easier to manufacture. And for people who say that they look like they’re not eating properly, they’re stylised, cartoon characters, not real people!

I think you're 100% right. It's really heart breaking that people would just tear into her like that and make her question her own art style. We should be allowed to draw people in their styles. I wouldn't go drawing a plus sized person as a twig, and I wouldn't draw a skinny person bigger. You can take from reality and stylize it, that's the beauty of art. It reflects reality enough that you know what it is, but it also has a massive chunk if yourself in it. I wish people would remember that the person on the other side of the screen has emotions..

@DuchessCelestia

2 жыл бұрын

yes, exactly!! well said!!

@deerlovingqueer5519

2 жыл бұрын

The way you say it sounds so beautiful!

@justradicles4337

2 жыл бұрын

Yep, I agree. A lot of art is pushing boundaries and exaggerating shapes and features. If it wasn’t done in a way that’s mocking or, as you said, drawing a plus-sized person skinny and vice versa, then it’s fine.

@justradicles4337

2 жыл бұрын

@🍉Suki-tan Hatsune🍉 Yeah, I disagree with using art or any media to shame or mock people. Did I give off the wrong impression or mistype something?

@justradicles4337

2 жыл бұрын

@🍉Suki-tan Hatsune🍉 Alright, hope that’s more clear now

As someone who is plus sized, I’d rather artists have fun than force them to draw plus sized characters, If they want to do it in their own time, that’s alright, forcing them isn’t helpful. As long as when they do draw a different body type, they don’t alter it in a manner to where it’s purposefully malicious. (Ie: purposely making a plus sized character look like a twig or a skinny character a bit more pudgy.) There’s nothing wrong with diverse bodies, the problem is when people feel like artist are entitled to drawing every single body type. (In defense of fellow artists, trying to stylize bodies in a manner to give off the silhouette of that body type takes time, we might not get it the first try.)

@L0rdOfThePies

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah im a fatass and im fine with people not drawing characters like that, i draw Enough of em myself phaha but in some situations theres no reason why a character would be fat, like say if the character was a peasant or a serf from the middle ages or a small victorian boy on the streets, its kinda situation sometimes

@InvaderBB

2 жыл бұрын

@@L0rdOfThePies facts

@Shadow_Link_Corner_Glitch

2 жыл бұрын

Also, I design a lot of characters after myself since I usually draw things that I wish i could be. So of course I draw them with my body type which is pretty skinny since I'm mostly bones.

@katherine_queen5294

2 жыл бұрын

Also another thing is that drawing plus sized people may not always be easy. There are many different body types that fit in that category and people aren’t really taught how to draw rounder body parts well. Like the basic structure that everyone is taught to use is done through sticks. Personally I can’t draw plus sized people and I’m kinda scared to because I don’t wanna make something that shows people in a bad light. Now I also have a stylized way of drawing but I don’t wanna make caricatures either

@InvaderBB

2 жыл бұрын

@@katherine_queen5294 And to that I say, it’s alright. I don’t think people should be putting a lot of pressure on artists to draw different bodies. Since either the artist struggles on drawing that type or they have a stylized way of drawing them. It’s sad that people aren’t acknowledging that, of course there are artists who do use it as an excuse to insult the people they are drawing, however that’s not the majority, and frankly it’s up for interpretation in some cases.

I once got commissioned to draw a middle-aged man, he was larger and balding, so I tried my best to show him as close as possible but in an "anime" style and my client flew off at me because I was making him look worse than he was, so I had to redo the whole thing My take basically is that if people don't study art or draw or even surround themselves in that "style" often enough to understand it, then they most likely don't understand the choices made or what you can do to make the image look like them but in your own style, so they see it as an attack I don't know if I'm making sense here haha

@DuchessCelestia

2 жыл бұрын

omg that’s so frustrating ;;; yeah, that’s a very good point! agreed!

@thatguywithanumbrella

2 жыл бұрын

This reminds me of a movie where an infertile couple make a wish for a kid and they put all things in a box on what they would like the kid to be like. The wish comes true and from the heavens appears a child that they'll get to spend time with for a week or something. He was basically perfect, well mannered, good morals etc. One of his talents they gave him was art, the mom's boss wanted to be drawn. Every thing was fine until the boss noticed he painted her mole on her face, so she got offended and almost or did fire the mom. The kid was perfect, but painting a person exactly as they are was apparently an attack worthy of termination. This is what artists deal with all the time, it's ridiculous. If I saw a drawing of myself that I thought made me look bad I'd just laugh it off, there is no reason to get offended at something that takes a lot of skill and effort, especially if you can't draw yourself.

@justradicles4337

2 жыл бұрын

@@thatguywithanumbrella This sounds like an interesting movie! Yeah, it definitely reflects on how people don’t like to see their flaws. It’s sad that they can’t be open to whatever flaws they have and get angry at an artist who’s just doing their job

@eggstertries

2 жыл бұрын

@@thatguywithanumbrella Ohhh I think I watched that movie in my drama class!! Isn't it called Timothy Green?

@thatguywithanumbrella

2 жыл бұрын

@@eggstertries maybe. I don't remember but it's worth looking up.

It's almost like people forget art styles are almost always modifying how people look normally (yes like you said it doesn't excuse drawing larger bodies as thinner or vice-versa). If they want to get mad at exaggerated body proportions they should stop watching anime, or even consuming any art in general. one I always see go through the ringer is pin-up art which, yes, has unrealistic proportions but the is almost its purpose just how in anime the eyes are almost always exaggerated and big. So if they are so against it because of unrealistic body isn't everything else stylized unrealistic body standards also? An example could be anime eyes, having large eyes is unrealistic along with other things. this is kinda a rant and I hope I got my point across in a non offensive way. Great video as always Celestia.

@Shammrye

2 жыл бұрын

late but i wanted to say I agree. maybe they should just limit themselves to looking at pictures if they are going to get that butt hurt hahahha

@justradicles4337

2 жыл бұрын

I totally agree. Most art, except maybe more realistic-looking art styles, exaggerate different features of the body and it’s normal to do. It creates more visual interest and adds to the look of characters. This artist wasn’t trying to exaggerate in a mocking way or “fixing” body types, so they shouldn’t have been attacked. Even realistic art is stylization to some degree and there’s no perfect way to accurately portray a person, except with maybe getting close with photography (and even photography isn’t perfect). This is not an something to get upset about

Ugh! I hate these body shaming arguments so much because to me, it’s trying to control the way artist’s draw.

@akamesb4540

2 жыл бұрын

Me too honestly, sometimes I fell like if someone who wants to draw plus size is ok and it is better to give greater diffusion to the artist and there work, but if someone does not want to or just is doing something different, something personal it is ok as well, that does not give the people right to be aggressive towards them. I get that in work is another stuff, is what the client wants, but I do not know, for me sometimes this feels like someone is always watching.

@RedMarvellia

2 жыл бұрын

Same Sounds like tiktok are the worse than twitter

@delirium5381

2 жыл бұрын

I would be bullied a lot if I post my drawings online😬cause I draw skinny or muscular people. I'm glad I never post my art anywhere.

@akamesb4540

2 жыл бұрын

@@delirium5381 that is sad.

@user-nz8rc6jx3f

2 жыл бұрын

@@delirium5381 and that is not ok. It's not ok to make someone uncomfortable with their art style. They always go on and on with the body shaming towards plus sized people even tho skinny people get just as much hate. I dont think it's fair for an artist to be scared of posting their art just because they dont feel comfortable drawing big bodys, or artist who just dont have the experience yet. And it's not like anyone goes after they ones who only post plus sized bodys so why go after someone for only posting the opposite? That's also body shaming? So honestly I would love to se ur art and I think you should keep drawing no matter what others say. You aren't trying to hurt anyone just because you dont want to/ cant draw a big body. Keep going and keep pursuing any passions you have or get in the future!

as an artist myself, i’ve had people complain that the character i use as my own persona is “overly skinny and i should add more weight to them”. the character is supposed to depict me in a slightly animated style. and i’m actually teetering on the edge of underweight due to some problems, and a really high metabolism. so yes, i honestly think, especially for when it’s just personal art, people have got to stop criticizing everything in such a serious manner when it comes to it. if i’m tryna draw realistic, i will make as realistic the body type that i am able to do, but personal art and art styles are not meant to be realistic :)

@Valkari22

2 жыл бұрын

Man the art community just keeps getting more and more toxic. This same problem applies to race and gender as well sadly, I've had people call my persona who is a depiction of me is "too" white and that I should make her darker. I'm allowed to draw and stylize myself, She's me, I'm her and I'm white as a polar bear! People aren't going to tell me how to draw my OCs that's for a fact. I had to deal with a lot of oppression from my community as a young artist who was into women with devil horns, people who too my face told me to off myself because what I liked didn't fit their cookie cutter mold- I'm not going to deal with this now as an adult because someone wants to feed their superiority complex, ain't going to happen. Luckily most of this only applies to twitter, Instagram and other art sites are pretty chill.

@3u-n3ma_r1-c0

2 жыл бұрын

twig club doe

@childeofepickness

Жыл бұрын

@@3u-n3ma_r1-c0 heck yeah

@childeofepickness

Жыл бұрын

@@Valkari22 that really sucks, I’m really scared to post anything art related anywhere at all recently n it takes a lot of courage to just post a simple drawing of my oc any advice?

@SnoFitzroy

Ай бұрын

@@Valkari22 I love your take on this. I'm not big enough to get backlash for anything but I'm in a similar boat with drawing an OC that represents myself having what to some are "unrealistic" details, as if I'm not literally referencing a photograph I took of my own torso lmao

This whole situation reminded me of a similar story but with more tragic consequences: One artist drew Rose Quartz from “Steven Universe” cartoon with her husband and son, but she drew Rose as a skinny (If I remember correctly, there was no malicious intend behind it). As a result: artist got bullied to the point of almost ending herself (but, thank goodness, she's okay now).

@Universe_SHOW

2 жыл бұрын

Oh god. I feel bad for her.

@L0rdOfThePies

2 жыл бұрын

Oh god i remember that...

@ThePunkina1

2 жыл бұрын

Yep I remember that

@mysryuza

2 жыл бұрын

Whenever I heard about that, it changed my view on how I see art in body types and art in general. Some people are just mean-spirited and cruel as if artists are bad people for drawing something “wrong.”

@Thebeezzkneezz.

2 жыл бұрын

K I agree they shouldn't have gone so hard but I cannot see any way that there was no malicious intent in the skinny quartz drawing maybe she didn't think anyone would care but she made the choice to make her basically the same size as pearl XD Rose quartz is CLEARY plus sized bigger in hight and weight than her husband and the artist made her look like a totally different character if you can't draw a character accurately why draw them at all? With rose quarts it hurt the fans cause they finally had a very large lady to look up to, and she was seen as beautiful in the show whilst being tall and fat She was a huge step for body positivity and to see her be even skinny than pink diamond is shocking ofc were gonna be like "um... why you do this?" they had the right to call her out but not to the extent they did (I never saw the messages / comments she got so idk how bad they were but ive heard of the controversy)

I agree with you to a degree. As someone that is and has been overweight/obese most of my life, Being obese isn't healthy or something to be proud of, it can be debilitating. So I don't think artist are obligated to depict overweight bodies in their work. They can, but they don't have too. Just like they don't have to depict POCs (I'm a POC myself so no, I'm not racist.) Comics set in Russia will probably have a white or mostly white/fair skined cast. Because that's true to life, just like how most cast in japanese comics are asian. Artist shouldn't be obligated to give representation, and if people are so mad about it then why not create representation yourself? Can't draw? Write. Can't write? Then just advertise and promote inclusive content. Now I'm not saying for artist to be racist, ableist, homophobic etc. And they definitely shouldn't erase bodies of real people. But what I'm saying is artist have the right to choose what they draw, and not every peice has to represent everyone.

@mikat_2977

2 жыл бұрын

I just wanna vent a little about how i dont know how the future of my art is gonna go as a 12 yo artist currently (yeah dont reply with idk- youre not supposed to be on yt kid go away or whatever it is soo fucking annoying its overly annoying and this is modern era majority of kids are here anyways) But anyways im a very thin light skinned asian and i like to do character designs a lot. I usually draw self inserts/character with similar traits as i am because im self confident and i like to see myself as perfect(ofc i know thats in my own prespective absolutely but in my own views im already perfect as i am) so thats why i tend to do so much self insert character because of the aesthetics to me lol (to me vampire like pale skin, a skinny young girl's body type and void black short bowlie hair on a girl is the pinnacle of beauty) and it all honestly comes down to me being comfortable being myself and confident of how i am but knowing how people in the media really react to pale skin, skinny/slimmer body types depicted as perfect/beautiful i really dont know how i can get the chance to grow big as an art influencer with only posting and drawing these types of characters that i love because my traits are not seen as diverse or minority and "opressed"(the "" because idk if thats the right word) enough that i wouldnt be able to grow big and be appreciated for the art i wanna share and be known for because of well what i just said. Idk but people shouldnt be expecting artists do draw anything and everything in this world for the sole reason of it. Im totally not invalidating the fact that minorities in the media should start getting represented more as i really really agree and if an artist wants to do that well thats absolutely great! But its not all artist's responsibility. As you can see from literally what i wrote about most in this comment is how i draw my characters the way they are because i wanna represent myself so i feel like if people want representation of themself that are under represented WELL GO AHEAD AND REPRESENT YOURSELF absolutely nobody is stoppinh you and if youre not part of the under represented minority what you should do is OFC if you want you could represent them too by creating your own art AND OR support these minority artists to spread their work on the media and reach more people so more people can see and actually feel more represented

@mikat_2977

2 жыл бұрын

Wow by a little i meant a lot

@bluejae1396

2 жыл бұрын

thank you! I'm so sick of this idea of forcing representation. sure representation is important I guess, but people don't have to cater their work to a specific group, and they aren't inherently bad if they don't. people just care too much about such trivial matters.

@bluebay1031

2 жыл бұрын

@@bluejae1396 Representation isnt trivial by any matter, and more often than not, the people who think so are people not part of any marginalized community. However, I do agree that people shouldn't be attacked for it, and that the main ones who should be expected to include representation are massive companies such as Disney, Sony, etc, rather than dogpiling on small creators.

@bluejae1396

2 жыл бұрын

@@bluebay1031 the message was missed. I was not saying representation itself is trivial.

I very much agree with you 100%, but too add my 2 cents, I think one of the reasons people went mad over the original tiktok is how Britney as quite the history of being mocked for not exactly being the perfect hour glass shape. It’s a known fact that for a decently long time, when Britney was really in her prime in fame, it was pretty common to see people blatantly shaming her for her weight even though, looking back at it know, she’s thin and was even then, people just had that ugly mindset about judging a woman by her weight. Even though the attacks to the artist were in no case okay in my opinion, I can definitely understand why they did it and where they’re coming from especially with Britney’s history. (English is not my first language forgive me for any mistakes!) Have a wonderful day ^^ hope my 2 cents helped

@DuchessCelestia

2 жыл бұрын

ohhh, that’s interesting!! i really appreciate the perspective - i never followed celebrities much, so i honestly never knew that. that’s really sad to hear, honestly ;;

@AngeliqueSe

2 жыл бұрын

@@DuchessCelestia I agree!! I was always very sad for Britney getting so much hate over such a dumb subject, which wasn’t even true!

@Jenskieez

2 жыл бұрын

true, this issue isn't black and white. even though the harassment to the artist was very uncalled for. i can understand where they were coming from because i know britney herself struggled with her weight and appearance during her career

@justradicles4337

2 жыл бұрын

Oh wow! Good to know. I didn’t know about that. Attacking someone is still bad, but I can definitely see why it can rub some people the wrong way. If someone did have these concerns though, they should have told the artist in a calm and respectful way.

@theorca3451

2 жыл бұрын

@@Jenskieez I don’t know I feel like they don’t really have the right to berate someone and speak for someone else. Once again not all art has to be realistic proportions and that’s kind of the beauty of it. It’s unique and it’s not real.

What bothers me about these types of situations, is that people go after one specific artist, who just happened to cross their way, instead of criticizing the general problem. That, and attacking someone is just always wrong. People should try to look more deeply into where the problems (like with representation) are coming from and what could be done to improve things without making innocent people suffer. Like with different body types, I think a common problem is just that many artists don't know how to draw them. Most learn how to draw one body type and then only use that. It's kinda like same face syndrome. Not everything is done with malicious intent. People really need to chill more.

Honestly, the entire thing feels baffling to me. And all it really does, in my opinion, discourages artist to draw different body types in their respective styles and post their personal stuff online because of the said bullies.

as a plus sized woman, i don't think people should be forced to draw plus sized characters when it comes to hobbies and having fun. like professional is another story, but i have a habit of feeling more comfortable drawing hourglass shape figures because it's something I wish i had honestly, and i'm not proud of my weight. i swear there's a problem with just about anything in the art community sometimes, just let artists have their fun

@qwaychou8561

2 жыл бұрын

Same here, i tell people that i live vicariously through my drawings of pinup girls because i wish i could wear what they wear or do what they are doing. My absolute passion is drawing pin up girls.

@skyesfallenxx

2 ай бұрын

Hey I know this is old and a lot has probably changed, but I want to say that drawing your own body type and your own self, and depicting it in nice or cool situations, can really help your self esteem. I've struggled with being fat most of my life, it's just the truth and not me insulting myself. But recently I've been drawing my body type and making OCs with my body type, and it's really helped me to see my characters that I already like, in desirable situations. Just a small thing that could help if you're willing to try it out. Everyone copes differently with low self esteem but I genuinely think this method is underrated.

I'm an artist, I'm overweight, most of my characters are skinny (not even in the same manner, but whatever). Am I bodyshaming myself?🤣🤦 (This is not because I don't want to/enjoy draw overweight characters, btw. I love drawing curves! It just happened)

@kitkatmelon

2 жыл бұрын

Same lol

@angelofpizza

2 жыл бұрын

same 🥲

This is interesting discourse for sure. Ultimately though, if you proclaim to be an artist or art appreciator, yet shame artists for their preferences or style in content, then this degrades the inherent value of art all together. It’s trying to play both sides. Do you agree with that, Celestia? If art becomes controlled by politics, then what’s produced isn’t art but just censorship

@DuchessCelestia

2 жыл бұрын

agreed completely, and that’s exceptionally well put!!

Ngl I feel like so many of these problems boil down to the fact people are going about it with the wrong mindset: destroy, not create. The want to destroy people who make personal content in a skinny style and potentially harm people who's only crime was drawing something "the wrong way", but aggressive campaigns like this don't incentivize anyone to draw these realistic proportions, if anything make it terrifying to be an artist on anywhere. But I feel like maybe people should be instead create more content on their own or support content creators, it might inspire people to draw these body types and contribute to a loving community, because regardless of whether you think showing more body types is the "right" thing to do....if people terrorize everyone who doesn't draw body types exactly the way they want, it won't change any minds or make the idea more widely accepted.

I've actually been harassed like this before bc j draw larger chests (mainly to represent myself and my gay attraction to women) and get called things like predatory and body shaming and I even have people make fun of other stylistic traits in my work. It honestly feels like people never wanting any individuality in artwork and just want carbon copies of hyperrealistic art or you're not allowed to be an artist without getting attacked:(

@L0rdOfThePies

2 жыл бұрын

Lmfao imagine those people finding out that women with big boobs are real, they'd be outraged af 🤣 But yeah I get that I've been told all my life that the way i wanna draw is wrong, anything other than realism or anime work for me has sorta segregated me alot..

@chichichichichichiOwO

2 жыл бұрын

That reminds me of people hating on this character called Uzakichan. She was a college character who was short but stacked with big eyes which reminds me of old anime art styles that would draw eyes , especially female eyes, as really big. People then started calling her a child and made for p3dos and hiw that body shape didnt exist. Actual people with that body type started posting pictures of themselves out of anger being told their body doesnt exist.

@JewelWildmoon

2 жыл бұрын

@@chichichichichichiOwO Omg yes I even remember someone with that body type legit posted a picture of herself cosplaying as Uzakichan lmao

@chichichichichichiOwO

2 жыл бұрын

@Jewel Wildmoon yeah and she even posted it under the comment that was saying "no adults have this body" or something like that and multiple other cosplayers too and that's such a power move

@JewelWildmoon

2 жыл бұрын

@@chichichichichichiOwO Holy shit yeah I remember that 🤣🤣

No one should force themselves to draw "Diversity" in bodys. there art there time NOT yours.

@sailorstar3148

7 ай бұрын

Exactly and if they get offended by that then they should make their own diversity that they’re complaining about.

@mrpickles-hb6zx

2 ай бұрын

@sailorstar3148 hoping that suicide rate of yours goes up to 80%

her style looks a lot like the winx art style.... no one is hating on winx because of "body shaming" this whole drama is just stupid honestly :(

@user-nz8rc6jx3f

2 жыл бұрын

Look I bet there is atleast one person on either reddit or Twitter who's complaining about winx lmao. Everyone is offended by everything really.

@mm-qp5lv

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-nz8rc6jx3f tbh yea

i'm an artist that takes traits from their own body and inserts them into my own art. i am underweight, so my hips do stick out a bit more(to me). so i add it into my own art. then the legs usually get very thick, so you get thick thighs and thick calves with me. and i am trying to add a bit more diversity to my own art. but seeing this happen on an app i use frequently makes me question my style and become slightly frightened of being attacked. my account is relatively small, so i do not believe i would be attacked(always a possibility though!). i agree entirely with you; sometimes art style is just that: an art style. and yes, there is always a possibility that the "art style" would be problematic, most sometimes it's just an art style.

my style gets A LOT of hate for having a super small waist with a big chest area 😅

@user-nz8rc6jx3f

2 жыл бұрын

I do that to but the only reason I do that is because I've always been a swimmer so I was ur typical skinny but also with a big bum and chest. I have hip dips that has always been my biggest insecurity besides my face. I don't swim anymore and I got depressed for a while because of family problems and even my grades where worse than ever so I gained weight (not much but I have a belly and my skin is like an orange on the back of my thighs) but I didnt change my style, why should I if it's what I like to draw? And honestly there will always be atleast one unhappy person but why let them ruin it for you? People are way to sensitive and judgmental today u cant satisfy everyone just remember that

You really did put everything super well into words! It really shows THE reason why many artists get discouraged to draw because of people like this. Literally the unnecessary policing for something someone probably does for fun is wild to me. Even when you do something justice and maybe add your own take on it, someone is gonna be pissed about it even when the thing you did wasn't even harmful at all. Like they would make a whole seminar bc how DARE you drew a skinny person with slightly exaggerated proportions, but then won't even consider people out there drawing plus sized people as skinny as a problem... Not to mention how unconsciously we could be doing the same thing ourselves and the whole cycle repeats... Somethings just never change unfortunately... 😔 And it's sad, it should be common knowledge too. I guess it really all comes to how privilege and being anonymous on the internet for the most part doesn't let people resolve issues like these as they should be. At least that's my take on it. Let me know what you think, I'm quite curious what y'all have to say on this topic 🤔

@MewMira

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. I've become really anxious about drawing characters of groups I'm not part of, because I always worry, that someone will get angry with me and accuse me of doing harmful representation and being a terrible person, even though I was trying my best to do it right. But whatever you do, someone is always gonna be offended.

@roseyborealis2690

2 жыл бұрын

Even being anonymous is a luxury rn, if someone decided to dox you, it gives these people the info nessasry to cause harm. Like getting people fired or even swatted.

Most of the crituque ive recieved on the body types of my characters actually came from my mom. She was a larger woman, and she often expressed her jealousy of my skinnier, hour glass body thru insults, which also carried thru to my art. She would always comment if she thought my characters has too skinny of a waist, or too large curves, saying "real people don't look like that." of course they didn't. I was a kid who hadn't fully developed my skill and still couldn't get proportions to look right, no matter what body type i was trying to draw. Looking back at my old art, i made the heads way too massive and the hands way too small, but my mom never commented on that. She only commented when i drew girls with bodies similar to mine saying that no one looked like that. I think that's why i'm so passionate about body positivity, because as a woman who sees my body type represented and praised all the time, it only took one person close to me to make me feel terrible in my own skin, so i can't even imagine someone of a different body type without a lot of representation feels. and i dont think its the job of artist doing it for fun to fix the years of media that lead this problem into existence.

It really bothers me when I see this type of stuff because its like people completely forget what "styelized" means in the first place, its not made to look "perfect" or accurate, the more cartoony it'll be the less realistic itll be and its like the idea bothers people to no end, I've seen it countless times, an artist I love got a lot of hate from 1 person just because they drew a character in their style that was stylized. Theres a difference from erasing body types and just simply drawing, how I draw myself isn't perfectly how I look like in real life but I keep most of my parts from my body but just change it to how i'd draw it in my style. It bothers me cuz I feel like people aren't allowed to draw cartoony, if you draw a character with a wonky body or something your art is seen as weird. I really look up to artist that have those really expressive wonky styles because its amazing to me and inspires me, but it sucks when I see people be mean about it for no other reason then "it looks weird" like,,,,thats the point,,,,

As a plus size woman who is an artist, I'm so glad that people are defending people who can't/or don't know how to draw plus size wemon. I honestly think that as long as they try to make chunky people chunky its fine. ITS HARD AS HELL to draw plus size characters and make them look good like one line can be the difference between someone looking like a plus size model and jaba the hut lol i would know I've tried to draw myself many of times! Draw what you want but as well do try to draw plus size wemon when its required. but most of all have fun! and if you see someone getting bullied like this stand up for them or send them a kind message cause you never know how much they need it.

honestly i think the whole artwork isn't that bad. yes of course, the waist is quite skinny and all but compared to the original it's not *too* far off, it's just a stylised drawing with the artist's flair and flavour in it. if the artist had decided to draw an actual, plus-sized person and make an artwork that depicted them as being very thin, i'd understand the anger. but honestly i don't think Britney is plus-sized or anything similar. so yeah i think this just got blown out of proportion

I agree with everything, besides the point that profetionals are obligated to creat diverse stuff. Becouse that would lead to token characters that are only created to check a box. For example, if I write a book, and all my characters are girls, but than I get told I HAVE to make a male character too, otherwise I'm evil and hurting peoples representation, than I will just brute force a male character in that I don't like, my readers most likely won't like, and who is with a 70% chance some sort of stupid stereotype becouse I didn't want him to be there to begin with. In my opinion, people should creat diverse character casts because they want to. Not because they have to. And if they don't want to creat a diverse cast that should be okay to! (Unless it's a comission work, or a job where they bring someone elses vision to live.) Just becouse they feel more comfortable creating characters similar to themselfe, doesn't mean other people aren't allowed to go wild with their own character cast! TLTR: don't force people to include diversity just for it to be there, or we will just end up with blant stereotipical characters that no one likes. I think it's called "forced diversity" in big media.

@theaceofspace6110

2 жыл бұрын

This

@midnightwalkers8077

2 жыл бұрын

Tho we need to distinguish “forced diversity” and actual forced diversity I often see People calling a character just existing and being POC or LGBT “forced diversity”.

@aniflowers1998

2 жыл бұрын

@@midnightwalkers8077 true. But those people are eather not verry logical, or think the characters exetution could be better, I think

@bluebay1031

2 жыл бұрын

I both agree and disagree. With people like Jackie or yourself, who are/would be professional but are small time indie creators, the dogpile and expectation is unwarranted. While the frustration is valid, its not helping anyone to place huge pressure on small time creators. However, with massive companies like Disney, Sony, etc, that *are* made up of a team of various creators and where the restrictions tend to come from higher ups rather than the artist just wanting to draw a certain way, I think the expectation is warranted.

@aniflowers1998

2 жыл бұрын

@@bluebay1031 I think in those cases it's less expectation, and more of wishing for artistic feedom for those big creator teams? Becouse the actual creators do WANT to creat those things, they just have a hard time getting to do it. So people don't really need to expect or force them to do it, becouse they alredy want to do it. In those cases, the expectations sgould be on the big suit man that run the companies, not the creators working for them, to give their creators more freedom. You know what I mean? I'm bad at explaining my thoughts xD

Great video as always, keep it up! God the original tiktok of this showed up on my feed before i saw anything about the controversy, it's really disheartening that this is the thing people chose to home in on bc when i saw it I literally thought that art style was gorgeous 😣 while yes, artists have a power to portray more diversity in their work, that includes thin bodies too even if they do oversaturate the field atm. Also ppl are allowed to just draw stuff without thinking abt these things; not everything an artists makes is a sociopolitical statement :/

I don't understand the entitlement of some people. And that's all it is - entitlement. Who are you to tell someone what they can and can't do with their free time? If you don't like their work, then move on. This may be a harsh opinion but trying to force someone to draw the way you want them to is pure arrogant entitlement. Sorry for the rant but this is something that really gets on my nerves. And I have been body shamed. I'm not overweight nor have I ever been but as a 16 year old girl I was told by my teacher in front of my entire physics class that I need to put on weight because "guys like girls with a bit of meat on their bones" after I was turned away from a blood donation for being underweight. People forget that body shaming goes both ways and when I point that I'm normally told to shut up. But that's a completely separate issue :)

The only type of body type erasing I will do is when I get around to making a persona for myself. Because I am uncomfortable depicting it too close to reality

Firstly, I want to say I completely agree with you! Secondly, I just want to say that I love your content. I want you to know that you're an incredible creator and to never give up!

@DuchessCelestia

2 жыл бұрын

SHHDJFJFJ omg thank you so much!! that means so much to me!!

Once upon a time cartoon and caricature were cool.... Now? Artist doing it stylized: "That's too exaggerated! That that this aint right! You're shaming!!" Artist doing realism: "This lacks character!!" It seems the more advance we get, the less chill we become....

I like the style. I have gotten into trouble also for females body types. I enjoy drawing the hour glass shape and door shape.

the whole thing is even funnier and more stupid thinking that britney has an OFFICIAL music video where she is portrayed as super overly thin, sexualized anime character xD means her style is even CANON if you can call it that to a real person. I am obese person and I can't understand the chubby people go rampage. Yes, some have medical condetions. But I think the whole "be proud of who you are" campagne is the wrong way, because you will ALWAYS suffer health issues in some way if you are obese It doesn't matter how much you like your body, it doesn't matter how much you support being chubby (or I will say obese since a bit chubby I am not talking about) but obesity IS just as bad as smoking, and you can't argue against it, yet people draw skinny characters as obese, not only as fetish but ..because? But if you turn this around, they go suuuper mad. it's the same thing with black and white. You got a black character that you draw white, they go rampage. You got a white character you draw as poc, they will hype you. Regardless of what is canon and realistic for the character itself. And I as artist have no sympathy towards "we are a bullied and excluded minorismn group so we can demand". Art should be free to express. I remember an artist cot canceled because they drew not even a poc character white, but the light made it appear lighter than the original color-picked-color which is totally normal. I even know dark skinned POC people and if they stand in full sun their skin shine super bright white, yet this person got harassed, canceled on all social media accounts. she even apologized, they didn't take it , she had to delete their art accounts, she had suicidal thoughts and there were countless videos uploaded after "how to properly light up darker skin" (which was always stupid because they only picked a few values higher, but this is not realistic xD) Sorry for going off topic but it's basically the same type the community does nowadays. Like, let's just look from the other side: Japan has a very sick way of pushing underweight. You have official weight charts that shown full tall women should be only about 30-40kg (you can google it), that's why most anime characters and style have super skinny girls with long legs (same with guys). America has countless cartoon stlyes just (and they still do) doing exactly that. If its the flintstones, if its disney characters (LOL elsa?) the girls mostly have this stylized super tiny waist and fat hips -thing. yet nobody complains. But if a tiny artist does it and uploads in social media they go nuts.... the ONLY way this rant here would be justified is when britney would have been underweight and really try hard to get some pounds on yet people draw her so skinny. that would be the only thing I would think "hm okay its a bit respectless". the rest, the art community never sees the mirror, that they act more antisocial than the artist itself

@mysryuza

2 жыл бұрын

As someone who is mixed, I don’t personally agree with the black and white being the same as weight in this argument, as the black and white thing brings up more about blackface, erasing poc representation, and poc appreciation. However, I do see where you’re coming from though. I’m kinda on board with your opinion about the skin lighter coloring thing. What I find sad is that people are posting “how to do it properly” but not paying attention to how this artist got harassed despite apologizing and had suicidal thoughts from it.

@okienvm

2 жыл бұрын

@🍉Suki-tan Hatsune🍉 break the ice

@mayo_d

2 жыл бұрын

man i was gonna agree but then you brought up the white and black part pls what 💀

@chickennoodlesoup2569

2 жыл бұрын

@@mayo_d I mean it’s true on twitter tho. Like I don’t support changing a characters skin tone (unless it’s cosplay or self insert, cause those are different ) but I’ve seen multiple people change a character (not their character) from white to black and get praised.

10:48 that quote solves pretty much every unnecessary art and fandom drama ever and imo, diverse body types really depend on the artist's intentions. I sometimes draw super stylized art (like mlp horse feet and bodies that use a big long 8 as a basic shape) and barely any of my characters have super diverse body types (mostly cause I can't draw those bodies well yet) even though I know people who are overweight and they see no problem with it. representation is really important, but we shouldn't be harassing hobby artists for it, we should be harassing big companies for it, and for them to do it well.

That’s a amazing art style! It’s both anime and cartoony it’s so cool! Your art style is also amazing!

The tiktok art community is absolute trash. Every single week there's a new artist being hunted and berated for some petty thing. People on tiktok legitimately belive that a cartoony and cutesy art style IS THE SAME AS CP if ever used in a suggestive manner. Actual children have been told to kill themselves and have been doxed for having an out of the norm art style. People get called racist for no drawing POC characters, but then also get told to not even bother trying if they can't do it "right" Which..in most cases what these people mean by "right" is..honestly really stereotyped. I've seen people "fixing" other artist POC ocs by taking all said ocs and giving all of then afros, regaurdless of if the hair they already had WAS a poc hair style or not. Having an art style that doesn't focus on features makes you racist on tiktok because it could result in you drawing a nose too small. It's. So gross. The tiktok art community legitimately does nothing but harm artist. Several people are afraid to even try art because of the community.

I honestly wouldn't be as disappointed if it was actual professional artists/semi-pro artists correcting her. My problem is most of these people who bash and hate on artists aren't probably even artists themselves. If an artist with experienced body type drawing comes for the artist for "exaggerating" then it's fine for them to correct/question why the artist did so in the right way. My problem is when these no artists people start hating on artists for no reason, like white washing, body shaming, queer baiting, drawing naked men and women etc. I think those people who take the time to bash an artist for no good reason need to touch some grass. Why has it become SO DAMN APPARENT for people to hate artists for their hard work? It just infuriates me. Especially when you know people in the past during pyramid times would probably view this as art? And as you mentioned, the artist here did nothing wrong even if we can relate to the hate. I think the art is absolutely gorgeous and should be looked upon with love and respect for the artist, not hate and unreasonable lashing

This kinda applies to a lot of arguments surrounding creative work. The author does not need to cater to every single individual’s need’s. As much as we all like to feel appreciated it’s just way to much stress to put on somone. You can get caught up in all the things other people want and lose yourself as well as all the joy you felt doing the thing you love doing. Don’t do this to people. The reason they started doing these creative things in the first place was probably because It gave them joy. You can’t expect somone to throw away all of their feelings and time so that you can have something that would mean infinitely more to them if they had actually enjoyed making it. Bottom line here. Give us some space. Let us be selfish once and a while. You are viewing this work. Probably for free and bashing my head in because YOU aren’t proud of the work I made FOR myself. This is my turf. YOU Get out. MY TURF MAN.

Aww, that fox is adorrrrrable

For what I know about the entertainment industry, if you work in a big company, character designers usually give lots of variations on the character's possible design, but the people higher up make the final decision. If you look at Riot Games concept art on many female characters, there is quite lot of different ideas, but the people higher up have chosen the most generic and conventionally beautiful version of them. On the smaller teams, I'm sure the character designers have more power, but in the end it is a group project too.

It's ironic how many people complain about how winx club's style wouldn't let the organs fit in the torso while there are series like Phineas and Ferb where Phineas head is so big it wouldn't naturally be able to allow the body to maintain the weight, without considering how the heck does he dress up, in The Fairly OddParents it's the same deal, and there are toys such as the Pin&Pons which sometimes fall themselves due to the head's weight. Cartoons aren't meant to represent reality, just as it is they never did

I don't think she did anything wrong either, though if Britney had a problem with the way Jackie drew her then that's a different story and that's between Britney and Jackie. Since Britney's the one being drawn, it's only fair to let her have a say in how she should/shouldn't be drawn, regardless of artstyle. Just putting that out there.

I draw myself as an more hourglass type of body to exaggerate myself because i have an smaller waist compared to the top or my bottom and even tho I'm chonky i exaggerated it because it would better fit the way i draw myself but i do know how to draw normal chonky people with an thiccer waist so i don't really see what's wrong with exaggerating- Heck for 3 years i didn't even draw necks

EXACTLY, like I can even give a story from personal experience about a similar thing. Just let people draw exaggerated body types of characters or real people if its the persons actual body type, just exaggerated. I once got in a really dumb argument on a discord art server for now showing "diverse body types" on a page I posted to the art chat of me literally just drawing one of my OCs in different positions and perspectives so I could draw him more/better. My OC is a skinny twig man and my exaggerated style kinda makes him look even more twiggy, this person replied like "i love the colors and positions but maybe try more diversity in the body shape" so I replied like "thx, but what do you mean about more diversity in the body shape?" and they started going off about how i drew a basic skinny man and how i should draw more diverse characters... it was a page specifically filled with one character who just happens to be skinner!!! Plus I actually make a comic for fun in my sketchbooks that use my OCs and I have plenty of different body shapes and characters in there, so I showed this person some panels with honestly my favorite OC whos this short dwarf girl with a heavier body type and they kept arguing that I was perpetuating "the stereotype of dwarves having heavier body types" or something along those lines??? people confuse me and this person was just bashing my art style for exaggerating twig man and dwarf girl T-T

i get so much whataboutmeism from all of this we artists shouldn't be shamed for the type of characters we draw i remember one time someone told me that my character can't be uderweigth because its "unhealthy" while completely discarding the fact that one of the core elements of the story is starvation

For any artists here who feel as if they keep the same body type, or even have, "same face syndrome." Try using different shapes for your body guidelines, and maybe saving a bunch of photos of models with unique body shapes, and practice stylizing that. As for Same Face Syndrome, try using expression charts/boards, learning different facial shapes, eye shapes, and learning how to give expression, and facial posing can really change up your faces! This is just a guide that has helped me, and a few others, so if it doesn't help you, there is nothing wrong with you, I promise. Everyone learns differently 💖💖

This issue has gotten to the point of shaming thin people for existing too, tiktok is just where people go to find those to bully honestly People shouldn't be forced to make every and all minds of content. That's ridiculous

im an aspiring comic book artist, and i try to include as much ethnic diversity in my drawings as possible because i think there are lots of beautiful people the world needs to acknowledge. but as for body type, I don't draw a lot of plus sized characters for the sole fact that I draw mostly action and it's reallyy hard for such active characters to NOT be slim.

I personally feel like people on the internet shouldn't be holding others accountable for their feelings...if someone hurts your feelings in a post that isn't even about you you just need to block them so you don't see their content..... and that's it. Only people being harmful on purpose should be held accountable for what they're doing. We need to stop putting each other down just because our views are different. Everyone has different opinions and we need to stop using opinions to hurt each other. STRANGERS OPINIONS SHOULDN'T MATTER TO YOU!!! If you're letting them matter then you're just hurting yourself.

I fell in love with your channel !! You structure your videos so good and I enjoy hearing them while I draw or do chores (😭) Keep up the good work ! I honestly wish there were more channels like this that give a more neutral style to their videos, but sadly all the more popular ones aren’t which means I or others take longer to find great channels like this !!! You definitely just earned a new sub .

I am working on trying to bring the KH series to life as an animated series, mostly to give Tetsuya Nomura and his fellow Devs a well earned and well payed vacation between future installments of KH. And one of the things i am doing is drawing the Disney characters in my own style. Granted i should try drawing the classic variants first, i will most certainly do that during my future character concept art. But more to the point i want them to fit a consistent artstyle so that it can keep animation costs relatively affordable as i don't want to skip the events of any worlds visited in the games, while still making them reminiscent to their classic style despite my more anime inspired artstyle. My depiction of Alice is a fan favorite (mostly off site when i show friends in chats on discord or if someone on a dating site wants to see my work) to people both on and off deviantart and the biggest change i made to her was her outfit trading her solid blue dress and apron for a puffy short sleeve top and a two tier ruffled skirt with leggings, mary janes and her classic ribbon. It is just line work and no color yet, But it was so subtle and still fit her stylewise that even in an anime style it has been praised by a lot of people i have shown it to. But my Queen of Hearts needs major work as i am not used to drawing characters with more muscle and especially not adult characters. I wanted to depict her as Brawny and militaristic, while still regal and able to rock high Heels. But the only Burly body typed anime woman of middle age that i could find for reference to try to model the Queen of Hearts after was a character named Hadenya from Yes!Pretty Cure 5. It was very poorly done, not helped by my attempt at designing a regal dress for her, being very flat and dull. I recognize i am going to need to work hard to practice different body types to get the desired design i was aiming for.

I think there were a lot of nuance missed in this video. I am a really thin girl(82 pounds and 5"1) and seeing people draw thin characters(like Jinx from League of Legends for example) with really wide hips and a big butt, because it is the "trendy" body type right now kinda hurts ngl. The problem I had with the Britney drawing was that she has a really narrow waist AND really wide hips. Britney has more of a stereotypical hourglass figure, not a pear shaped one. So I think your argument about her body type not being changed and just being exaggerated doesn't really hold. I understand why people are upset: There are always "trendy" body types for different eras and art made during that era only seems to represent those body types. It is slim thick body this time so people are frustrated whenever they see someone changing an artist from early 2000's body type to the body type of the present era. Now, that frustration and anger is valid, but was it directed to the right thing in a right way? No, of course not. Attacking the artist won't do any good. People should have been able to have a normal conversation about the issues they had with the artpiece. The artist probably didn't even think that hard when she was drawing Britney in an exaggerated slim thick body. She probably did it instinctively because all we ever see is that kind of body when we see sexy characters.

WHATTT HOW ARE YIU NOT BLOWN UP RN YOUR SO UNDERRATED!

@DuchessCelestia

2 жыл бұрын

ahahahaha thank you so much!!

Well, at the first glance sounds like a typicall drama you would find on Twitter. But if anything, this video is a good example how to handle said dicussion. Aka Showing bouth side of the argument. Explaining there view's on the matter. And pinpointing the issue at hand. With an idea of the resolution.

@DuchessCelestia

2 жыл бұрын

thank you!! i’m really glad to hear that, because that’s exactly what i hope to achieve with my videos.

This is basically forcing someone to not draw in there style

Its 100% about intentions. If they take a plus sized character and make them skinny then yeah they probably aren't about loving your body as is. But drawing skinny people super thin and cartoon probably doesn't have malicious intent

I can't believe we even live in such a coddled and privileged society that this can even be considered an issue worth discussing. Think about this. There are people on this planet that are working all day, families starving, may be imprisoned or enslaved. And on the internet, people are getting attacked for drawing a fictional character wrong. What the hell is this generation. :/ I find myself wishing the internet didn't exist more and more. XD

@3u-n3ma_r1-c0

2 жыл бұрын

we have too much freetime :/ ... or something liket hat

As someone who IS on the rounder side of body types I feel like attacking an artist for not showing diversity is much worse than if they arnt (let alone if they are doing personal stylized work) because I would rather people not feel scared to not depict diffrent body types/ to be forced to

personally, as an artist who is going to trade school to be a story boarder. i do not limit myself to one body type or hair type and people applaud me for that when in reality it’s just because i don’t want to draw one thing forever. i get board of art so easily. no one should be attacked for not wanting to draw certain things. not wanting to improve is another thing but there is a difference between that and just wanting to draw thin people. i diversify my art because it keeps art interesting, makes me more attractive to future employers, and it’s fun. afro hair, yes so much fun, new skin tones, of course. i diversify and it’s purely for selfish reasons. just putting that out there bc not everyone diversifies for the masses. and before you call me racist, i’m native american and know what racism feels like. this isn’t how i think when i’m designing characters and such. when i am designing characters i take into account personality, representation and how motivating it would be to draw.

This feels like people misunderstanding lighting and stuff, a stylised image is not supposed to be realistic and not everything has to look like MK11.

I'll be honest, my art style isn't fully completed yet, i don't make plus sized characters for how they end up looking, (quick note I'm only 12 so as i said my art style isn't in the right placeing at this time), but it makes the character look off or ugly and i don't want ppl to see pkus sized ppl in that way, however when it comes to drawing my friends who are plus sized i feel so sad that i can't give them the drawing bc i think it looks ugly and it obviously is. But this is just me tbh, there's other things and other reasons for this type of thing so I'll just leave it here.

@desiree7633

2 жыл бұрын

The fact that your 12 and your saying this shows maturity. I'm not an artist but I do like to design clothes. When I was younger I faced the same problem but I kept sticking with experimented and I found a way that worked.

@BrokenXDI

2 жыл бұрын

@@desiree7633 yeah I'm trying that out still, i can't seem to get it right, only on rare occasions though-

@BrokenXDI

2 жыл бұрын

@Peter Pan i- I'ma need you to shut it right there, while yes for me it can be disgusting to see when it has gone overboard a bit but that's just me feeling weird about bodies and etc, howeved they aren't exactly non good looking either.

@BrokenXDI

2 жыл бұрын

@Peter Pan hmm.

I'm really glad you mentioned representation of _thinner_ than """normal""" bodies too. My baseline weight is a lot lower than average, which doesn't seem to have an impact on my health (every time I get vitals taken at a checkup, or anything like that, the doctors say I'm fine, and my partner who works in the medical field agrees with their assessment), however, yeah, you can see the topography of my lower three pairs of ribs if I stretch my arms up. This isn't something I see represented very often unless, like you said, the character is shown to be sickly or explicitly unhealthy in some way. My solution is to simply make my own art that represents this. I repeatedly depict my self-insert OC with little lines on the side of his chest, exactly where my "rib dips" are (I don't know what to call it). I don't want other artists to feel forced to represent that if they don't want to lmao. Anyway, that Brittney art is REALLY good and I super love that artists style. I'd love to see more from them.

I definitely agree with you. Although I think it can be a good thing that people are advocating for more diversity in art, I also think it can be a bad thing when that sort of representation is FORCED. People are allowed to draw whatever they want-- if someone doesn't like what an artist is making, then they should just not look or interact. No matter what, there will always be a difference of opinion amongst humans and people need to just learn to respect that, even when they don't agree.

I don't even. Its baffling how people got upset about this, like did they never watch a cartoon with exaggerated proportions before? Also to add onto what you were saying, an artist shouldn't be made to draw a character with a particular bodyshape unless they are getting paid for that work by a client or are paid as part of their job. As if the artist is drawing for fun, then they are drawing what they enjoy drawing, the fact it said is mindboggling but not surprising.

totally agree! one thing i might like to add is that sometimes (imo) stylisation or, more accurately, exaggeration of certain features can be harmful/offensive; on rare occasions you will see someone exaggerating features to an extent where it veers into negative stereotypes and sometimes even fetishisation (see rcdart)

i cant agree surprisingly. if an artist (no matter if they are a pro or not) doesnt want to draw stylized body types, no one should force them to do so, at best they just miss out on money opportunities if the buyer wants that specific thing. yes I agree you would be a better artist but that decision should come from them themselves and not a lynch mob or a buyer (to pay and literally force them to do so i mean). if someone wants body diversity from artist and feel bad when their favorite artist doesnt draw your body type then why not.... oh i dont know, be that kind of artist yourself. the only responsibility a pro artist should have is pleasing their buyers that should already know what the artist is capable of because they saw their work before they asked to buy a commission and also discussed it before proceeding

The moment I saw the image on this video my first thought was....oh it's a Winx style drawing...cause that's what it reminded me of...I mean you can see so many concept art for dolls and just about almost all of them have a tiny waist and wide hips....I didn't know it was supposed to be Britney Spears and when you said it was it only reminded me of how celebrities looked back in the early 2000s.

@mehkarma2772

2 жыл бұрын

I'm answering the questions here as someone who does art: 1. It really depends on what and who it's for. If it's asked for in a commission then yes it's a style. If it's for themselves it shouldn't matter. But if it's an art about someone and that's not their body type then no it's not okay. This situation was really just out of hand and really wasn't necessary. Since this is from one of Britney Spears' old concert shows and she was and still is a really thin woman. 2. Now unless it's for or about someone or something, no artist do not have an obligation to commit to something except for the art itself. Everything is an inspiration of someone else's work and an art style is just the same. Just about almost every cartoon is exaggerated in some shape or form. But is is not an artist obligation to oblige to someone else. That's just how art is...not everyone is going to like it...and if the artist and or their customer like it who cares? But I do think that every now and then an artist can create some diversity...if the artist feels like it. It could be that some if not most artist only know how to draw in one type of way. And I'm not going to lie...I am one of them and that is because the influences of my past and what I grew up drawing. Because everytime I draw something else I don't like it. You can't expect an artist to just draw what everyone else around them wants them to draw if they don't enjoy it when it's a hobby...that's how you get artists block and lose the motivation to do art.

idk it still feels a bit iffy to me since britney doesnt really have a particularly small waist… like stylization is supposed to exaggerate features to show how they are unique, but it seems like the artist MADE her have an excessively small waist, when there wasnt a super small waist (for irl human proportions) there in the first place. like yeah ultimately its not That big of a deal, i just wonder why the artist chose to perpetuate a kind of art style that has been considered harmful for women in the past due to how unrealistic it is (and there is a major difference between depicting something like eyes unrealistically vs body types unrealistically, since what is seen as an ideal body is such a big thing in at least western culture, causing a lot of mental health issues when the unrealistic standards cant be met)

@caysy9156

2 жыл бұрын

Did you seriously ignore literally every point in the video

@twiinkk8170

2 жыл бұрын

Are you dense or stupid? The whole point is to exaggerate. Ofcourse that waist wouldnt be there, or couldnt be there. Thats the whole point !!! Nobody is looking at heavily stylised art and saying "damn..... if only I had legs like her",, because they know its not real. Do you think woman are stupid? Do you think the internet as a whole cant see the difference between reality and fiction??

@violetjade64

2 жыл бұрын

@@caysy9156 nope! i actually watched the video and considered every point. i didn’t have to agree with the conclusions in it though! that’s why i tried to bring up my perspective, one that wasn’t really addressed in the video, to continue the discussion :)

@caysy9156

2 жыл бұрын

@@violetjade64 oh alright! I get it, we all have different opinions :) in my opinion it isn't harmful as it's very clear it's exaggerated and not meant to look realistic, no proportions in that drawing was! but i definitely understand why you'd feel worried itd continue the harmful standards

As artist i could tell them, "if you want me to draw some specific kind of body shape just pay for it...simple and easy" sometimes is good to draw different body shapes, but for reasons of Learning or for payed commisions, any other way, i am free to draw things or people in the way i want. Art is one of the few places where humanity can be free... Please, don't let never ever again hateful people bann artists for their personal or aesthetic choices

as someone who by social standards is considered over weight i personally think it would be more offensive if everyone was forced to draw plus sized people you can draw whatever you want and have fun with your art the only thing that i ever get upset about is the little girl shows where all of the characters are skinny and curvy it used to give me serious anxiety

Just found your channel, super underrated! I’ve been binge watching your vids whilst drawing

@DuchessCelestia

2 жыл бұрын

omg im so glad you like it!! ;u;

I, personally, am plus sized. I’m a chubbier lol. But I see absolutely no problem in drawing characters thin. However, if someone draws an obviously plus sized character with a three inch waist, might make me a bit angr lol

Like hearing that artist talk about her experience with that it actually hurt hearing her feel bad for doing fun art for herself like as though she no longer allowed to have an hobby

In my opinion I think of it as an art style. I can see how some people would see it as body shaming tho

The fact ppl are basically saying that drawing a skinny character is body-shaming is body-shaming all on its own ngl

I feel like artists who draw for fun should be able to draw whatever they want however they want.

1. No artists has any obligation to represent anyone. 2. For character designer it is indeed recommended to know how to draw different characters of different body types, ages, races etc. because that's very useful in their job. That being said... 3. Even a character designer has no obligation to represent anyone. That is because... 4. Your body image issues or self-esteem issues are *YOUR* responsibility. I know it can be hard to deal with them and overcome them - because I was there - but unless you take responsibility of your life you will never get over yourself. If you have issues with yourself, the "representation" will be only temporary solution that won't change anything long term. Working on yourself, on the other hand, will require more effort (I mean, ANY effort in comparison to crying for "representation"), but will also become a long-term solution. 5. There are biolgical reasons why certain body types are considered attractive. For example, certain hip-to-waist ratio in women is pretty universally considered as attractive all around the globe - even being slighty overweight didn't negate that fact. Point is, you cannot redirect it by drawings nor "shame" people to start liking different body types. Biology is a biology. 6. As a obese person myself, I'll say obesity should never be encouraged. Period. That being said, nobody should be a dick to obese people for no reason.

This rant really helped me with a major event I have going on. I used to draw twiggy characters because it was easier for me to do, and I had a sec insert character. My art teacher told me it sucked because it didn’t match my body type (I’m a slightly muscled slightly chubby person), and that I was insulting myself by drawing myself skinny. I’ve changed my art style multiple times to match it and she said “well now you need to keep the skinny drawings for people who are ACTUALLY skinny.”, and I’m just a 13 year old hobbyist. This rant really made me feel better 👍

The art community of tik Tok and Twitter infuriates me, in my opinion, as long as you aren’t being down right disrespectful with you’re drawings, draw whoever you want, however you want, and whenever you want, people need to understand that they are not owed representation, if an artist wants to draw things, let them, you are NOT owed representation and the artists, professional or not, are NOT responsible for giving it to you

I hate “art fixing” draw your own characters if you want something to look some way don’t attack other people’s art I love drawing curvy flowing dresses with big hips and chests I do it for fun if I was a fashion designer I would draw more body types but I do this for fun

@user-nz8rc6jx3f

2 жыл бұрын

Atleast dont haras someone for something you think need to be worked on, like just be nice and give constructive feedback instead of just sh*tting on their art

Disney is a really good example of having a bad diversity of body types. I really think a big company like that with many young kids looking up to them, should take the responsibilty to portray all body types.

@GrayMajik

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, they have been putting in a lot of effort more recently to depict more diverse races and cultures, but all of the characters still have the same sort of body types. More things need to be focused on if they really do want to finally put in the effort to create more diverse movies.

@bolognesechipz5163

2 жыл бұрын

@Peter Pan you do know that all people are built differently and only giving really skinny representation can be harmful?

@bolognesechipz5163

2 жыл бұрын

@Peter Pan ngl this was kinda funny but dude have you seen like any disney princess ever? Those bitches be having 0 ribs, this shit is what causes eating disorders

It’s almost as if people forget art is supposed to be fun & freedom

i love the skelly kitty drawing

A bit off topic, but I wanted to share this I'm trying to improve my art and start drawing more different people, but looking at my old art (and more recent art too) I noticed that the characters almost always have really thin arms, but also disproportionally thick legs and are also generally slim. I think it's because that's what I look like, I'm very thin (because genetics, yay) and people often told me how thin my arms are that I don't eat enough or something, but my legs are not that thin and look a lot thicker than my arms. For some time it's been difficult for me to change that because I often take reference from what I look like just because it's easier for me to do. And I didn't even notice it at first, but now I'm thinking about what would've happened if some people took it the wron way.. It's sad honestly

I'm a fat and brown artist myself, and I very firmly believe that we can draw whatever we want, so long as we stay within the bounds of the law. If that means someone only wants to draw particular frames, sexes, races, etc etc etc, then honestly who really cares? No one is obligated to cater to you unless you pay them to. Trying to censor art over something as trivial as a wasp waist is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen and I'm glad I stay away from that angry clock app. Gen insanity over nothing

I love Jackie! I love her artbook!

People usually have little problem with someone depicting a body of an existing character as something that is not considered to be 'attractive' in the general society, it even gets praised for diverse body representation. But usually the same people will be hypocrites when it goes the other way around with someone making the body more up to beauty/sex appeal standards. If you think one is cool, the other should not be your concern. And while I can understand people who prefer to have 'lore accurate' body types for the already established characters, it's still none of people's concerns what artists that don't work for a company or big project draw unless it's meant to actually be offensive.

I personally think that exaggerated features can be an artstyle choice and erasure of body diversity depending on the person who is being drawn. I personally don't think the artist did anything wrong as i quite literally looked on google images and found an image with a similar body type so the artist didn't really change her body to be rude they just have an exaggerated artstyle. (sorry if this doesnt rlly make sense)

I get not liking it when people change body types, genders, races, or heck even species (I don’t like it either) but it’s not something to attack another person for unless said person literally hate made it saying said art is superior because it is more like them. Like my favorite character in media is Cayde-6 and I’ve seen people make female version of him, all I do is think “That’s not it chief,” and move on same with female characters being turned to dudes it just annoys me. It’s just fanart and taking it personally and trying to destroy someone for such a silly thing seems immature to me. Making things with hate or the thought that the changes you make on a piece make your art better then the original; those are the issues and those can be made without even touching body types. I guess if I have a point it’s don’t be an ass and assume malicious intent. We can all stand to be a bit less confrontational

Okay as someone who is chubby, I will say it is so fucking hard to draw fat people. The artstyle of Little wait slim figures is very easy to draw. but if they are doing anything harmful like drawing a skinny woman as a skinny stylish woman thats fine if they draw a chubby woman as a chubby woman thats fine. people dont dictate your style you grow and change that style

You deserve a follow for this

With my art style I can almost never get a heftier body. And because of the lack of experience it makes it 10 times worse. So most of my characters are just a little bit chubby or really skinny because I cannot draw big round shape.

@Vivster-

2 жыл бұрын

It's because of the framing that I use whenever I Do draw people. I make shapes and I can almost never use the right shapes and this is entirely because I do not know how to draw other body types.

If you want an artist to draw something specific, pay them to do it. If you don't, then let them draw whatever the heck they want. Artists don't owe you anything and its not their job either.

Honestly, it feels like people look for reasons to be offended these days…

A bit of a similar like issue as with the caricatures. While caricatures are meant to be humorous and commentary art, many also find them very offensive and caricatures are also called "mockery pictures" in some languages. Many old caricature artists have now ended their career or switched to a more realistic style because nowadays people get so easily upset and angry about caricature drawnings. There has also been talk about that the old trend of satires, caricatures and grotesque is dying and their time is over after centuries. And there has also been talk that this ongoing change is about that "our human society has now growing up from child to adult" and we should not be worried. But I’m worried if this “growing up” means this narrowing of tolerance so that only hyper realistic and non-symbolic art is allowed. Because there should also be tolerance for stylized art as well.

let people draw what they want and what they can. is forcing an artist to draw something they don’t want or can’t in a character really in good faith?

Nobody is required to do anything they don’t feel like doing. If someone wants to draw only skiny people with or only over weight people, if they only want to draw black people or only wanna draw white people. So be it, they’re the ones drawing it, and it’s for them to enjoy and them alone. Does that apply for webtoon artist or cartoon makers? No, not really, artist who show their work to TV or webtoon (stuff like that) should have SOME kind of diversity because it can affect people in real life, but if it’s say on Tiktok and they’re doing art to pass the time, then it doesn’t matter who or what you draw. Instead of throwing a fit cuz someone doesn’t draw what/how you want, just find someone who does draw what you like, it’s as simple as looking up what you wanna see and following the artist

I personally think the issue as a whole isnt black and white, because the reasonability of expectations differs depending on who you are, so I both agree and disagree. With people like Jackie or you or me, who are/would be professional but are small time indie creators, the expectation is unwarranted and the dogpile and shaming is disgusting. While the frustration is valid, its not helping anyone to place huge pressure on small time creators. However, with massive companies like Disney, Sony, etc, that *are* made up of a team of various creators and where the restrictions tend to come from higher ups concerned about making things "palatteble" rather than the artist just wanting to draw a certain way, I think the expectation is warranted, and if said companies continually claim to be diverse without actually showing it beyond tokenized versions or just implied diversity (like with Disney) then I think its reasonable to be called out on it. However, those fingers should be pointed at the company itself, rather than the individual artist(s) who was just following instructions and trying to get their paycheck.

I wonder how those artist will react to cartoons/anime. They're gonna get a heart attack 😅

@ELCORZO_2001

2 жыл бұрын

Same if they saw my art