Ok I saw DM reacted to my video. I agree with most of what he said and admit a bunch of weak points in my video. I listen to the audience, so if you guys like it as it is right now and my points are bad, that's on me! As long as you all enjoy the game as is, I guess we're good! Also a commenter brought up a brilliant point, THIS IS why my build guide videos do so much better than my beginner guides, because beginners never watch that content lol. I take the L, gentlemen!

@dwizzle2132

11 күн бұрын

well seeing how you currently have a 56-209 ratio on likes vs dislikes kinda shows how flawed your opinion really is. You advocating for people who arent playing the game which makes no sense. Imagine devs of a game disregarding its playerbase to go make people who arent playing the game at all happy......how does that make sense? If you cant get past level 50 then the game is not for you, this is literally one of the easiest games to level to 50 especially with the latest season.

@alexxortv

11 күн бұрын

@@dwizzle2132 Yeah I get it and I take the L and the lesson 100%. I was wrong.

@TwistedErrors

11 күн бұрын

Yea definitly bad take , like even in PoE there are stuff i still learn every league after around 1.6k h in it , but thats what i love about it , not every part of the content is ment for me , like i was sooooo happy when i first time killed Maven it was like WOOOO , and it was regular one ofc xD never had chance with uber but its fine . One positive thing is taking this negative take on your video as a positive to do better and without to much drama

@LethargicCarcass

11 күн бұрын

No one is necessary saying they like the game as it is right now or that it doesn’t have issues. You are missing the point completely. They aren’t even saying some of the things you said in the video wouldn’t make the game better. You make content for the people who play the game not people who quit after 20 hours.

@philbrake7525

11 күн бұрын

Respect for admitting the L. I would add as a non-streamer/content creator, that this isn't a "steamers vs players" argument. This is a casual vs non-casual argument.

I dont think this guy did much thinking on this topic.

@GeorgeBigglesworth

12 күн бұрын

Zero real thought.

@joemarcucci9136

11 күн бұрын

Just another virtue signalling fraud ...

@alexxortv

11 күн бұрын

Probably the opposite. I was OVERthinking it...

@xoxar1

11 күн бұрын

@@alexxortv No... You talk about Diablo 4 an Blizzard game that have maybe 95%-99% of the playerbase play from Battlenet. You open steam and see STEAM achievements and say only 35% of Diablo player reached level 50. Looks to me more like there is no thinking.

@NeCoNLive

11 күн бұрын

@@xoxar1 you know blizzard gave the stats for season 1 also right? it was nearly the same.

60 Hours : Rookie Numbers

@alexxortv

11 күн бұрын

62 now! Am I valid now? ;)

@DwDiablo3

11 күн бұрын

@@alexxortv yeah id say so :P

This video feels like bait. I don't even know if it's worth engaging with in good faith.

@alexxortv

11 күн бұрын

Clickbait title I'll admit that, but everything I said was my genuine thoughts.

So your whole point is that most people dont even play the game for very long yet we should be making more content for them? If people haven't been playing til level 50 what would possibly make you think they would play 10 different classes?

@Mellow046

12 күн бұрын

Guy has no clue what he is talking about. Looks like a bait video to pull traffic

@alexxortv

11 күн бұрын

I think they are more incentivized to try different classes over grinding the pit for 100 hours with the limited time they have. But DM made a good point, the casuals are likely gone already and won't come back, so focusing on the endgame NOW is the way.

@blueballs11

11 күн бұрын

@@alexxortv but getting a class to lets say lvl 15 doesnt do shit for anybody. wouldnt they just quit faster cause the classes are weak as shit

@Rafaela_S.

10 күн бұрын

@@alexxortv I mean you aren't even in the pit at that point, in fact people that don't reach lv 50 haven't even finished the story campaign even once. The monetary goal of games with cosmetic shops and battle passes is, to keep players playing the games for months or even years. People who invest that much time into a game, are more likely to buy more stuff. So you want them entertained, and since they spend 99% of their time in endgame, that's where the focus must be. As for casuals that leave the game behind after a few hours? From the point of view of the company: "Who cares?" they already paid for the game and would drop it anyway really soon. It makes no sense businesswise, to focus on people that will drop the game anyway. The bigger problem of Diablo 4 is, that it seems like the game also got a problem keeping the players that would invest a lot of time and money, while playing endgame only. Drops in these numbers affact the money blizzard earns, affacts how much they are willing to invest into the future of the game and is therefore the factor that determinates if the game dies or not.

Dude is hoping big streamers react to this nonsense to get his name out there lmfao..

@alexxortv

11 күн бұрын

Of course. I am not even denying that. That was the intention of title and thumbnail. However I genuinely thought people would react better to the content, but I guess I got work to do :D

@dwizzle2132

11 күн бұрын

@@alexxortv lol wow trash content

@Nezmco

10 күн бұрын

@@alexxortv What content?

Bro goes on a 7m tirade off a premise he made up in his head. "Streamers are ruining games because 60% of people didn't get to lvl 50 in diablo 4!!!!" They didn't get to that level because they stopped playing, genius. Do you not understand what player retention is...? Hint, most games don't keep even half of the players until "end game". Your logic only makes sense if whatever game your talking about is the literal only game in the entire world. No wonder you only have 1k subs with brain rotted takes like this.

Bro you thought you were cooking? It was just a cup of noodles and you burned that… wtf

@noob_gamerson4428

11 күн бұрын

Bruh 💀

Your thinking is wrong because of 2 reasons. 1. The statistic you showed is true for EVERY game on the market, not just ARPGs, it doesn´t matter if you look at the witcher 3 or elden ring around 30% of the buyers don´t even open the game, just because a lot of players don´t play them or finish them doesn´t mean you should reduce the content, because you will sell less copies if you do that. 2. ARPGs are not like other game genres, a lot of the core playerbase has already played 1000s of hours in games like poe,LE or d3, if these players don´t get endgame, they will not play your game at all, look at season 1 in d4 it was dead very fast and casuals could get the seasonal hearts really quick. And these core ARPG players are also the ones that spend the most in the ingame shops so you can´t look only at the playernumbers, you also have to look at the so called MTX "Whales" because they will pay 10-20 times more than the casual player in your game, but they also demand a consistant stream of new endgame content, and if they don´t get it they will move to another game.

No so long as the streamers are providing constructive feedback to the developers which in essence makes the game better in the long run. In that same sense, if a streamer is providing me information that saves me hours (I am a filthy casual) on how to efficiently play the game either by providing me tips, builds, etc. I'm all for it.

Your completely clueless on this topic. Your whole argument is "Most players dont have time to play the game, so the devs shouldnt be spending time developing end game content that they will never play". So based on this statement, i guess the devs should never develop any content for the game ever because most people dont have time to play what already exists. 🤣 The problem isnt the amount of time a player has to play. The actual problem is the quality of the product. Most people decide the game is not good enough to keep playing. Time has nothing to do with it. Streamers have nothing to do with it. I dont stream, have a full time job, commitments outside of work and still find time to pour 100+ hours into a POE league, when its good. Have i versed uber bosses, no, but you bet your ass im glad they exist. Gives me a goalpost that brings me back every league to try and get closer to.

It was very kind of youtube to disable the like/dislike ratio for videos exactly like these lol

@amberow9892

6 күн бұрын

I can see it with an extension... as you might expect, it's 80-90% dislikes.

The answer to this question is time. Each player has different amounts of time to play the game. In this era, many players have almost no time left to play games or maybe have 1-2 hours of free time, while there are many ARPGs with a season system. So they have to choose which games to spend their valuable time on. Games need to satisfy them in many ways and they need to feel like it's worth spending their free time playing. This is probably why so many players just play for a little bit before leaving without even bothering to finish the game.

I disagree with this. The problem is, if you start developing the game based on the players who drop out early, there is no guarantee those players will try to go further or ever play again. If you focus on the small community that plays a lot and keeps the game alive, you actually have a better chance of those other players coming back. The idea is, "Oh, this game is still alive? Quite a few players are playing? Maybe I will try it again." If you focus on the opposite, that community will never form and the game will probably die, at least this is how i see it.

@alexxortv

16 күн бұрын

Then why do hundreds of thousands of players come back each season but still dont play to the endgame?

@kevinmaiapavelka

16 күн бұрын

@@alexxortv I get what you are saying; maybe a 50%/50% development focus on endgame and early/mid-game would be better. However, I still think that if you focus too much on the early game each season, the game will have long-term problems and a higher chance of dying (compared to having a small but loyal community that keeps playing). My point is, the small but loyal endgame community has a much better chance of attracting some of those players. The opposite, I just can't see happening. anyway, great video, made me think.

@alexxortv

16 күн бұрын

@@kevinmaiapavelka Me 2! So thanks for your comment and watching it :)

@Wrex90

12 күн бұрын

@@alexxortv The people who are comming back are those who already reached endgame before. Those who quit before level 50, in most cases won't come back and have moved on. What kind of mental gymnastics is this? Good fking lord..

@whatmaxlikes9977

11 күн бұрын

@@alexxortv nostalgia!!!!! At least in my case - And I like your attitude and the way you handle the comments - respect! :)

L take after L take youre on a roLL

if you have 5 hours a week to play, you should never be wasting it on a loot based arpgs. go play something that doesn't require grinding, this is not a very hard concept. What you also fail to understand is that endgame in both LE and D4 is poorly done, which is why you consider it boring content.

@alexxortv

15 күн бұрын

@@arandan666 how would it be better you think?

54% players of PoE did not finish Act 1, that puts you somewhere around level 12-14 :)

@alexxortv

16 күн бұрын

Wow that's even worse. So what do you think of my proposition?

16 күн бұрын

@@alexxortv well, but this is different, PoE is free, so majority of these are probably just trade bots.

@thomasgreed9581

15 күн бұрын

in poe the top 1% of players spend the most money in the shop, so the devs just make content for the most profitable customers, chris wilson once said that the top 10000 mtx buyers financed the game in the worst times of poe. It is it same with gacha game whales. in d4 a million of casuals finance the game by buying the game, it is not as relevant to blizzard if they play it because they already got the money, and the big mtx buyers are almost always not casuals.

@RumblesBettr

15 күн бұрын

Im 1 of those people. Couldnt get into poe.

@mdouet

14 күн бұрын

That's around the time you see the skill tree for the first time, so makes sense, lol.

I think it's because they have an entire analytics team behind them and they've realized that creating content for the 5-10% of players who play for thousands of hours is much more profitable than catering to the 85-90% of players who only play for 10-20 hours. And this is true for most games, not just ARPGs like D4 or Last Epoch

Spoiler alert, no streamers are not ruinin any videogame. Videogame studios are ruining videgomaes

The majority of the CoD players doesn't even finish the campaign that only takes 6hs to finish. This season is the first time that I got to lvl 100, and I only play 1 or 2 hours per day. This season was the only one that I really enjoyed playing. Now I don't know if I could make my char to be able to kill the tormented bosses because grinding for glyphs lvls and Master working materials are kinda boring.

Steam numbers are skewed mostly because steam had free to play week last year. Meaning there is people who did not invest $70 to play the game. So quitting/not reaching level 50 before the free week ended is shown in huge percentages.

You had some good points in this video. I played on release of the game. I play hardcore and lost a character at 58 with full renown and all of that jazz. I died to a hard cc I got frozen back to back. I wasn't doing that all over again. We hard to farm renown back if you lost your character at that time. They wanted to waste my time. I haven't been back to the game and have no desire after that. I enjoy LE and MMO's and that's good enough for me.

Have you ever played a game before 70% will never reach the 2 minute mark of your video so why is it 7 minutes long for who is that video for if most people will never even watch that part of the video are you just wasting your time no some people will watch it you aren’t wasting your time cause a few people will still watch just like some people will play end game on Diablo

In my experience, I play D4 about 5 hours a week. And with more end game I can strive for different activities and keep playing the game I like for a months on end, without actually beat it all. I haven’t ever beaten Echos of Lilith, D4 pinnacle content, for example. This season she is the single last thing missing for me to do. And that’s something that keeps me coming back season after season. Being able to do different end game activities every season helps keep the game fresh. The game should be develop for those who come back again and again. The ones how play only a couple of hours, have A LOT to do already.

The statistic is true even for the immense popular Elden Ring which won many GOTY award. Only 38% can progress to the new DLC because the 62% has not defeated an optional end game boss which was not the hardest.

I personally think what you are suggesting would be great for an ARPG which does not revolve around being a live service game with content cycles, but these are very rare nowadays. The last bigger one was Grim Dawn in 2016. Titan Quest 2 might be the next big campaign / non-hyper-endgame focused ARPG. There is an audience for both of those types of ARPGs.

@alexxortv

14 күн бұрын

I'M super pumped for Titan Quest II!! But you think they really wont make it live service? Its the thing these days.

@zZzPLAYLISTzZz2

14 күн бұрын

@@alexxortv Time will tell. So far I haven't seen any mention of live service features regarding TQ2 and steam mentions the Steam Cloud feature, so there seems to be at least an offline mode.

Absolutely clueless

I feel we are at a good spot for leveling atm they honestly just need to give us more options for gaining Glyph XP and fix all the Uniques. Then I'll be happy with the current state of Diablo 4 as a D2 player/fan. Id be even more hyped if they add more to the skill tree and nerf the Barb to where ever other class is at but one can dream.

@alexxortv

15 күн бұрын

@@Vonasta personally I like D4 a lot right now but I’m also not the casual player as a streamer but good to hear!!

I agree with you, and have been saying this for a year. Blasters tear through content faster than devs create it. D4 was intended for casual players, aka middle age people/dads, but the streamers/blasters demand more and more content and talk about how easy the game is but many casuals, are content. Some weak points sure but in general, good take

The lesson here is not to take ONE statistic and then extrapolate an entire theory out of it.

Maby you should putting more skill points in intelligent

Watched the video and reaction on DMs youtube and I think you're missing some very crucial points: Nearly every game in the history of video-gaming needs some sort of "Elite", were other "casual" players can look up to. Let it be Tournament Players for Tetris, Beat em Ups, Shooter, MMOs (Race to World first for example), or Guide-Makers, Speedrunners, Leaderboard-Junkies etc. in ARPGs or other genres. Hell, even Guys like "Let-me-solo-her" in Elden Ring made a name for themselfs by just being really good at their chosen game. Longlivety of a game doesn't depend on the time spend within the game. It just comes down to 3 major points: Is the gameplay fun? How much time/entertainment do I get for my spend money? is there an active Modding/Guide-making/Gameplay-Elite? The "Elite" only reflects, what the majority of players want (so they can make money out of it). If the "Elite" dies, the game will die. How often did you witnessed games dying because of low player count? Probably a LOT! So, by keeping the "Elite" engaged with the game it will pour down to the big "casual base". Also: I don't like the premise, that your point-of-view should reflect the "casual player base", which it doesn't! I know a lot of "casual players" in "over 30 year" clans/guilds, who don't play multiple characters and who don't mind grinding (because its brainless entertainment). Even if end-game-content exists and even if only a small percentage of players even do that content, its a potential goal you can work towards. Videogames compete with every other form of entertainment, because time of potential consumers isnt endless. Thats why many game-devs and/or game-companies try to push their games into "game-as-a-service" category. The more I can bind my customers/users to my game, the more likely is, that they don't spend their money elsewhere. More content usually leads to higher player retention. Thats why most games nowadays have a 1-2 month patch/season cycle to keep things fresh. Devs don't develop (additional) content for people who quit the game after 1-5 hours, that would be ridiculous!

Also (to my understanding) the %s of players beating bosses etc included those who download the game, play for a bit, and then stop playing. Important to remember the number of players who are involved in this data.

He is included when talking to Diablo harcord streamers when he has only played 60 hours and on Steam (people who play months later). He doesn't talk about those who don't have time to play the End Game, he talks because it's difficult for him to get there and he wants fresh content for his stream.

You just uploaded a video without doing proper research. You should add in the video title "in my personal opinion" Many people's opinions are wrong, so we can accept your video better. 😅

You can't rely on Steam numbers. Not everyone who plays Diablo 4 uses Steam. Lots of people use the Battle Net software to run their game. However, the Steam numbers do give you "some" indication of the underlying player behavior. Making content for the minority of players is still a fair comment to make and I'm curious how the devs could improve on this. Also, I agree that trying a new class is way more enjoyable than end-game grinding loops.

The problem is that players that can only play a few hours every week should play in the eternal realm because if the play seasons they probably will never reach lvl 50. But every streamer say that they have to play seasons and blizzard doesn't want them to play in the eternal realm because blizzard wants to sell battlepass. Blizzard should make a battlepass for the eternal realm so these players can collect all the cosmetics in the eternal realm. Eternal realm players have been asking for a way to do the battlepass in the eternal realm. And they asked streamers for build guides for the eternal realm. But the reply is why would you want to play in the eternal realm? Perhaps its because they never reach lvl 50 in the seasonal realm because they can't play that much. They get to lvl 40 and then the season ends.

I would like to see the analitics of who spends money on the in-game shop. That's where their money is really coming from. Also, I wonder the percentage of people who beat Elden Ring? Game content and end-game content shouldn't be necessarily tied to the casual gamer alone. At the end of the day, I suppose it boils down to the intent behind the game for the devolpers and publishers. Make money, tell a story, challenging gameplay... that all drives what gets devolped.

you make some good points but your forgetting all the people who own D4 on the blizzard app. I dont have a lot of time to play but i have at least 2 x 100 characters every season in D4, i didnt even complete story in Epoch as its too complex, and forget POE. The road to 100 should be fun and endgame needs fun, i agree the road to 100 needs more content but if you make a game with 10 heroes you would end up with a mess.

@alexxortv

15 күн бұрын

@@darrylhe fair point bnet doesn’t have the stats but since last epoch reports similar things I’d say empirically the result would be the same. D4 is adding a new hero. They might end up with 10. why a mess?

@darrylhe

15 күн бұрын

@@alexxortv so D4 or other games release a game with say five heroes then have time to develop new ones and generally make a good job, ie necro D3, summoner Dungeon defenders, but and only my opinion of you try to do too much in one go like you said make a new game with 10, you can end up with an undeveloped release that gets forgotten about not long after release. I would love to get into Last epoch but I'm older generation and don't want to spend my game time watching videos to attempt to understand the mechanics of it. D4 has it's complexities but I can happily follow a build and build a good hero, but I do agree about streamers, I often wish they would think more about everyone than their own personal preference.

@alexxortv

15 күн бұрын

@@darrylhe agreed on all accords. Then again what game is finished on release these days 😅

I think for future videos comparing similar "welcome to the game" achievement numbers. Whats about the big games like GTA or Skyrim? What do COD metrics look like? How does it look on other platforms ? The sample is too small. Dont forget the BattleNet metrics also. This feels a little like clickbait controversy without comparison or personal experience from the tumultuous year of additional development. By the way im also a dad gamer, Im a teacher with a kid and have 2 characters to lvl 100 this season alone plus i havent been able to play in 3 weeks. Theres just a lot of assumption and youre going after the people who are doing alot of hard work to make the time i have to play more fun for me. I can see youve responded to similar comments youll do better next time best of luck

Brother, there was literally no end game to begin with, if you knew that this entire video wouldn't have even been a thought. This game is already catered to the casual player, end game content is constantly being reworked with the casual 5 hour a week player in mind.

0:58 - not necessarily true. I have 3 characters lvl 100, but I levelled them all playing on battle net. I moved to steam like a month ago and I didn't unlock the 50 lvl character although I am playing barb lvl 100. I think steam does not unlock this achievement unless you reached lvl 50 playing through steam.

@ucam0858

15 күн бұрын

Did you move ur account from bnet to steam? How is that?

@meehowmeehow8938

15 күн бұрын

@@ucam0858 I just bought diablo 4 on steam and I run it through steam only. I believe the achievements are only unlocked if you unlock them while playing on steam. The fact that I don't have the achievement of reaching lvl 50 but I have the achievement of reaching lvl 100 proves it I guess :D

All the people, who are part of ARPGs, have different viewpoints. Devs, casual or blaster players, ... Noone has the whole picture, sadly and therefore it is very improbable, there will ever be a game, that is able to cater all groups. Plus, we as consumers do not know, how the developing teams are divided between endgame content and the thought process of optimizing the experience for casuals. To add to the latter topic: Playing the campaign, absorbing the atmosphere of D4 is an amazing experience. Already is. With all the imbalance and other flaws that get apparent only after you've played dozens of hours. I, as someone who already sunk several hundred hours into D4, think, content creators are good for the game. Because they are the people, who, firstly, have enough understanding of the game, its contents, mechanics, to, secondly find bugs/ flaws, thirdly generate interest via streams, vids. And as a fourth point are very useful/ helpful with their output for people like me, who play the game for a long time. I am not able, to say, how good or bad the state of all people involved is for the game, i lack too much statistical knowledge, that Blizz will never share. So we all can just do best guesses, what would or would not be good for the game.

Your logic is so flawed on most of these topics it makes me think you have no idea how D4 works in the first place or you haven't actually played D4 in the last 3-4 months. Either way, clearly did not think a lot of this through.

someone explain the concept of live service games and their longevity to make money to this guy! Lol

I think we, who still play the game, need more content, not the ones who left even before hitting 50 lvl. Same was in wow - never streamed, yet always wanted endgame and raids, not another pet or squirrel to kiss.

I don’t agree with this at all! Bettering the end game only makes the game better for everyone! Especially titles like Diablo where there is a player base that grinds the end game and grinds the seasons. If that is not there, you kill the series.

Well us non streamers have a life outside of games like you said, so we can’t play 8-12 hours a day as a job. I still have fun with them but I can’t play those hours and most players can’t. I still do get to endgame though and getting to 50 on Diablo 4 is very quick now, but most people still play D4 on battle net while steam only tracks steam players.

Good points and based. The whole race to end game because that's where 'the real game starts' is a toxic shitty meta in arpgs and mmos. Look at elden ring, no one says you need to race to endgame because the devs made the game fun from the beginning. Devs should learn from that. Elden ring has massive player retention considering its difficulty

People who didn't make it to level 50 have stopped playing the game. They beat the game by finishing the campaign and they've moved on to their next game. They aren't likely to be coming back. The people who are still playing now are the ones who have hit 50+. They are the ones who will keep the game alive. It makes sense that new seasons and updates are for end game. The people who dropped the game might pick up the expansion, beat it, then drop the game again.

If you have no endgame, no streamer will play the game more then few days, and game dies because people just wanna play whatever they see is a popular thing now. So it kinda make sense for developers to focus on endgame, even if they have data proving most players cant handle anything hard.

@alexxortv

16 күн бұрын

Thats what I mentioned towards the end of the video. If it's really just streamers keeping the endgame alive as a sort of marketing. And I get it, but then for anyone who actually plays it, there is constantly new content added (endgame) which the regular will NEVER see himself :D

15 күн бұрын

@@alexxortv regulars can watch streamers to do it, thats the point! :-) Before they get better.

So I think we are kinda overinflating how much dads with one free hour after their 80hr day and 400 wives and kids, necessarily care about the games they play. Like do you think that dad is buying a season pass? Not likely. They don’t have the time to finish it. Do you think that dad cares, if it takes him a year or two to get their aspect? I think he’s just happy to have a game to play that’s pretty low commitment. So the reality of the situation is that the people who spend money in these games are the people that engage with these end game systems, which is why so much emphasis is out on them. If the endgame sucks, then all the money goes to another game.

If you think the people who play 10 minutes and then quit is "Playerbase", then your game would be dying. No one is designing a game for those "playerbase". Without streamers no one would touch the game after the 1st season, because most people don't bother checking the update after that shit launch. The streamers playing the game to show people how it got better are what brought the number up.

Paragon boards suck. It totally hinders you on respeccing. I don't like it much. Until armory can save builds...paragon feels horrible. (I'm one that likes to try new builds every few days)

@alexxortv

12 күн бұрын

You and me both, brother. Paragon seems a bit odd. Also not very "exciting" to get +5 willpower on lvl up ;)

Why do you think your LE endgame guides have more views than your beginner guides? Because the casual gamers aren't watching content creators. I have 3k hours in Division 2. Done both raids (which have less than 10% completion on PSN last time I checked) they stopped focusing on endgame and now the game is dying. Enjoy the engagement. 👍

@alexxortv

11 күн бұрын

That argument just ran in my entire point lol Thanks for that perspective. You're right. I didn't make the connection yet, but that's it. Damn. Thank you!

'Dad' (I dont have kids but I do have limited time) Gamer here - Streamers make my 6-8 hours a week I have to game 1000000000000% more efficient, without them i'd never make it to end game or Pit 130+ or w/e I make it to. The time they spend to research and streamline things is the only reason I am able to, or do at all play these games. I am a min/maxer at heart, and I'd go insane without their guides/content.

35% are not getting to lvl 50 with 1 character out of 5 - let's add more characters. Less than 1% of humans are playing guitar with 6 strings, let's add more guitars with more strings. This video was made out of frustration. Nothing more to say.

Gaming is a business, lets not forget that.

Many "influencers"/youtubers play Path of Exile, Diablo 2, Diablo 3, Grim Dawn, etc... yet those games have not been "ruined". So, what's the explanation? I'll tell you what it is: Diablo 4 sucks when compared to "better" games. It's NOT the fans/players that are to blame, it's the garbage games. People that blame the fans for the failure of garbage games/films has gotten tiresome. Also, if it weren't for the "influencers"/youtubers/streamers, D4 would have died long ago. Don't get me wrong. Season 4 has been a HUGE success for the game thus far. Yet, there are still many aspects that need to be addressed. Tempering sucks. Gem shortage sucks (for multiple characters). Too much RNG for EVERYTHING sucks. No Loot Filter sucks. Glyph leveling via Nightmare Dungeons ONLY, sucks. However, there are some aspects that D4 does right. Multiplayer/coop (but, needs a LOT of work to make it more 'multiplayer/group-centric). Cross-platform is one of the biggest boons for the game. The game runs pretty smoothly (lag spikes can still be horrendous). Like I said, there are some aspects that are good, but there are MANY other games that just do it so much better. There is a REASON that most people don't finish the campaign: it's boring with only decent moments. Also, Diablo 4 can't decide if it wants to be a MMO or an ARPG. This was apparent with it's launch which resulted in a great launch. However, because it was targeting a more-casual audience, the game had no longevity and failed so hard for 3 out of 4 seasons. Season 2 was okay, but not great. Season 4 changed the formula BACK to more of the "old" ARPG (non-MMO) style of play, which is why there has been a huge resurgence in players. However, I believe that Season 5 is a HUGE step backwards to the old formula that didn't work. We'll see.

Let's not forget that the people watching the KZread vids and Twitch are the 30% who make it past level 50 and play end game acivities. Because they're the only ones who care enough. Also, I would wager that most of the 60+% who stopped playing are most likely not ARPG fans to begin with.

If people arent doing the content available, why would anyone make more content for people to not touch? The devs should focus on keeping their player base, the ones who play longterm. Not the people who play for 20 hours & never pick it back up. That doesnt even make sense

tldr: endgame players buy microtransactions, streamers encourage endgame players I think the best place to look for more info on this topic would be path of exile and wow and ff14 which focus on the long term players who spend the most money which would be endgame players poe ninja alone is a great tool for seeing the sheer numbers of people who stay or go during each league/season content creators arent necessarily the focus i think but rather the players who plan to stick around because those are the players who buy the cosmetics content creators who make streams and guides keep those players engaged over long periods of time with videos to inspire content grinding and guides to help grind more efficiently creating a community of people trying to tackle the challenge the devs put out many games have player drop off even the more casual ones, one such example would be against the storm, its a city builder i play off and on that has a less than 50% achievement rate for completing a normal mission, the problem with using achievement % to illustrate this point is that most players who download a game launch it once and close it forever after maybe an hour all that said i absolutely agree that more ways/classes would be more fun that grinding one class for hours and i feel like many modern games are so obsessed with endgame they make the early game sooo boring theres no motivation to get through it no matter how fast the top players can

1. Steam is not a representation for player numbers or achievements (like the achievement example which only 35% of players achieved) because most players play it on Blizzard Launcher. 2. Diablo was always a ARPG Grind Game with only one rule: kill everything thats red on the screen to get better loot and repeat that 1000s of times.

Because like 80% of all gamers are really not "gamers" in the old sense, but rather just passengers on the hype trains and slaves of entertainment consumerism created by the huge corporations. They buy the currently hyped thing, play for a day or two, then jump back onto the hype train again to buy the next product... Just like tourists in the gaming world. Catering to these types of players will ruin the game.

I think you just have to accept that player retention is what it is. ARPGs have a niche audience that wants to grind like crazy, and return for every season. The mythical dad-gamers want to play the campaign and then they are done. So it makes sense to make content for the crowd that actually plays the game rather than trying to pull the quitters back in. More content is good, but it should serve the game, not fishing for player retention. Because if the game is good at the core, player retention will be good.

99% of the people playing the game still have the achievement for hitting level 50. The 65% of players that dont have it quit. The content will never be for them because they dont play the game.

You need to put some numbers to the percentages. +10 million copies sold. 1% are still 100k gamers for the hardest content and 35% are about 3.5 million gamers over Level 50. Today AAA games like D4 are on release made for the average 5 hr/week (~75%) audience. And after they sold millions of copies they switched to the "end content audience" and started developing the end content. They will accept the backslash because of the streamers. They are not ruining the game they are helping them unintentionally. At first, they might be negative and demand features. But they will still bring the audience back to the game. This might be the cheapest way how they can release a not-finished game. I think this point of view would have been a better video topic! :)

This video feels misguided to me. I think you started with a conclusion and worked backwards from there. The stats and examples you bring up are both not unique to diablo 4 and also not enhancing your point. You do have some valid criticisms of the game, but those were only tangentially related to the main idea. Also, I would try not to blanket "gamer dads" as being incapable of reaching and enjoying the endgame of long term RPGs. I know plenty of people with busy lives who love raiding in MMOs and grinding uniques in ARPGs.

I have 500sh hours in this game and so whatever weight. my opinion holds is irrelevant maybe but streamers are not ruining ARPG's simply because theres only >20 that are known compared to the 10,000s of players on the game every day or at least when a season comes out. despite their flaws, blizzard has a nice little medium and once you actually reached the END GAME you just do the same thing over again and again 1000 times until the new season. The only way to make the game better is really to add more MMO components and social components to the game at least in today's age.

People have endgame sickness now. I loved D2 because you can play it in many different ways, challenge yourself etc. Now its "endgame, where is endgame, what endgame?? endgameeee???"

@alexxortv

15 күн бұрын

@@wojciechgiza9277 Gaming Culture definitely shifted a lot in recent years

@LuketheGamerDuke

14 күн бұрын

Which is a major reason why D2R is still so popular. It’s incredible how basically no studio has been able to recreate that gaming experience

@deenman23

12 күн бұрын

play grim dawn,has even more different ways to make a character than d2,endgame is cool and all,but you can spend most of your time lvling different builds

I’m not so sure I completely agree with the achievement awards from steam. Most people play Diablo or all blizzard games from the blizzard app directly. You cant claim results fully from steams numbers alone. The fact that D4 has had a rough start is evident, it is getting better. Let’s hope devs realize their mistake and fix season 5 or the numbers might be super low then. It does seem every other season I has been bad. As for the title I do believe that streamers have a direct impact on the games economy, and greed takes over the players in the AH style environment. But if you want something bad enough then put in the time.

D3 turned into 5 Hours to max level 1 character, then all other alts, were 15 mins to max level The rest is just gear farming That meant to realize the game, to get to play the 4 player meta that was the pinnacle of multiplayer ARPG (its just math's, the numbers only add up one way) My friends who cant put the hours in, could be playing 4 player within 30 mins of starting and helping to push GR's as monks or barbs yes the DPS always had to put the hours in , but you have to realize the supports could be in full action within an hour !!!!!!!! That last bit changed ARPG's forever yes they couldn't play any solo builds for hours, but they were in the game in less than an hour with friends That means there are 2 ARPGS now The solo players slow looking for items forever, D2 Types who play alone And the D3 ROS Endgame they created with the 4 player instant endgame push 1 AOE 1 single target 2 support, (its maths) They bottled trying to make the D3 endgame, too complicated basically

Its simple. Guides and Walkthroughs are ruining any RPG type game.

This actually gave me a headache. You want to make games for the people that stick around. Those 65% got what they wanted from the original purchase price but the 35% sticking around are the ones that are paying for the progression through cosmetics, expansions etc. The end game content is important because I can almost guarantee you that 35% is gold for Blizzard. Blizzard may make questionable decisions when it comes to games but they know how to make money just fine. Imagine if Blizzard made WoW for people that only had 1 hour a day to play. I am a full time working family man but I can understand that games shouldn't always be made for me. I'll play the games when I have the time to and if I don't have time then I won't play.

what did i just watch....Streamers are ruining my KZread experience

endgame content is for the people like me that stick around and level characters past 50. i'm not a streamer but i grew up playing arpgs. streamers have nmothing to do with it, never did. every game loses 60% or more of their players eventually. An arpg with no endgame will fail even harder. The people like me who play arpgs for the endgame will have nothing to do.

This is just my opinion- casuals have all the content they need and the game isn't growing like it did at release. The base game had no end game content with season 0 and1. look how that turned out. You need goals to strive for to keep bringing dedicated people back to these games. That's why POE is so popular as you have a lot of benchmarks you can shoot for. Yeah Just beating the campaign and doing some basic maps is what a lot of people end up doing but most of those player will never return or really put much time into the game anyways for it to matter. Most of those wont spend money on teh game either as they really never played it to begin with. The people that do return have done the end game systems and found it to be fun and worth coming back to. That's why you need an end game. Now I do think there should be more things to do when leveling up for sure. The league mechanics should be structured more liek POE so low level players can do them if they choose to. But you you still need to keep expanding the goalposts too or people wont come back to the game. That's been the state of diablo for like 3 season tbh. Season 4 sort of shows why you need an end game, if anything.

steam isnt the main platform for d4. people got the game to review bomb it. people buy the game on sale and then dont play until they have time. people buy the game and then reliase they dont like it. so many reasons why using acheivement numbers as your base is bad.

Lmao so far off base it’s funny! Also using steam to get statics on a game where probably close to 90% of its player base IS NOT ON STEAM. I’m pretty casual player based on your description, and yet I have multiple characters at 100 this season and love making them stronger which IS ONLY POSSIBLE IF THERE IS ENDGAME. More Endgame means more options for players like me to have more fun.

Ppl not making it to level 50, aren't going to invest more time testing out other classes. Games like BDO exist, where the bloat alone, scares off new players. Same w/ POE. If you can't get to level 100, you're not that interested in the game, and more interested in something else...be it priorities or whatever. Endgame content exists for the hardcore players and ppl that actually enjoy the game...these are what support the developers long term. I don't see sub 50 hour players, dumping hundreds in cosmetics lol. Streamers aren't ruining the game, if anything, they're keeping em alive.

so you want the devs to cater to the people who play for less than 50 hours then quit forever? rather than the dev cater to the ones who repeatedly come back to the game? that would be like a company that sells meat catering to vegans.. maybe focus on the core player base rather than focus on the people who just dont care in the end, like do you think someone who never got pass lvl 50 in d4 will come back to another season and go let me read the patch notes and stuff? nah they already forgot about the game.

With your logic it makes no sense to deliver complete games because the majority of people will never finish them anyway. The reason for delivering more content even if only a minority will ever play them is that people who still play have a goal to accomplish.

I don’t think this guy knows about Path of Exile. Tell you what, play through POE, experience its success firsthand, and then come back and make an argument against end game content.

who plays DIV on steam anyways

@alexxortv

14 күн бұрын

Me ;)

Who do you think is buying the battle passes each season? Who do you think the portals horse and armor skins are for? The 'penny anti' club of causal gamers already paid all they were going to when they bought the game and quit. The whales and streamers keep the community alive and thriving.

Don't base your info on steam for D4 because most players are playing through battlenet

I do agree and don't at the same time. I agree that content for KZreadrs in games in something different than for regular people. But I do not agree that you cannot reach it. I play like 6, sometimes when I have more time around 8 hours a week. And I find Diablo 4 boring. And to put that in perspective. I have all diablo books, I was playing each Diablo game so far, and in Diablo 2 and 3 I have many, many hours (school and university times). You can easily reach level 100 in diablo in a week or two. Season is few months. So that means, even playing as little as you said, you should easily get to the endgame. And I do no feel that Diablo 4 delivers when it comes to even how games feels even for a dadgamer as me. With all my love to Diablo lore, I prefer LastEpoch or PathOfExile, when I feel that I have really something to do, and I can chase something. In Diablo, you get very good gear very early and then what is the point of playing anymore? And about lat game and grinding - it is true for Diablo. In games like PoE or LE you have some items, that change your skill completely. And that is worth to grind, at least for me. Chasing 5 or 10% of additional DMG is not.

Take a course in statistics so you can understand the steam achievement system because this was embarrassing.

D4 was ruined by the game designers who decided how the game was gonna play not streamers...

so your argument is streamers (players) are ruining the game for people who haven't reached level 50 (non-players). You can't say that people who haven't reached level 50 are still players, it's just not possible to be part of the group of people who are keeping this game going past it's initial launch and not have reached level 50. So I don't play NEAR as much as streamers, but I usually come back and play each season for a while. This season is the first I've gotten a character up to 100 and enjoy the new loot system. I still think they have work to do on the end game and then I come here and you want them to not even worry about the end game? Seriously? The process of leveling to 100 is perfectly fine (now) if you aren't even participating in the game to that level you aren't the target audience of people they want to continue to spend development time on who will continue to play and spend money on the game. The fact that they have dedicated players who continue to play the game means they will continue to work on it and continue to make improvements, some of which will make the leveling process better for people who are so casual to have not reached 100 yet. That's what they did for me and why I was able to reach level 100. If it weren't for streamers and other players in the end game grinding away for gear and continually pushing the package you wouldn't have had loot 2.0 and Tier 1 and 2 Helltide leveling because they wouldn't continued to have been developing the game.

I will be honest, if you don't have enough time to make it to the first monolith boss in LE after 5 months or getting over level 50 in Diablo 4 then arpg's are not right genre for you. I will never play a mmo for example simply because I don't have the time to play that much, I also wouldn't ask them to adapt the game to my lifestyle I just move on and play something else which is better suited to the time I have to my disposal. People with not much time are better off with a story game or a genre that isn't very time consuming to play. I don't think it's a good idea to build the game around people that barely play the game, also I think just because they don't play much doesn't mean that they don't enjoy the game.

D4 sold 10 million copies ... Steam all time peak players is 39,599 .. This argument would be valid if all the players were on one platform.. You can't judge 10+ million players base over 39K steam players.. So no ... Streamers are not ruining ARPG's

Bad take. People aren't not making it to 50 because they suck and cant handle it, they are quitting because they dont like the game. Nothing you can add to the game will help those players other than making a different game. New content is also not being added to the game for those players anyway, and it doesnt need to be because they still have plenty of content remaining should they decide to come back and play more. New content is and must be added targeted at the players who actually stick around and played through all of the old content and hence NEED the new content. This idea is as dumb as if TV series' producers looked at their watch metrics, found out that viewership drops off after the first 2 episodes of their TV series' and so they decided to keep making different versions of episode 2 over and over again instead of progressing the story.

Okay, bad takes all around. Being a guy with limited time to play and surrounded with similar games.. I've got 3 months to progress my seasonal character. I'm easily getting to end game, if season is fun enough to keep me engaged. Its already easy enough to get there. And no i dont want to play another class, i'd rather play another class on another season... but thats just personal. Now, i also have plenty of friends who only play through story line. That's all they wanted and that's all they're doing with every single game. And I'd say that's the majority of the people i know.. there's no way to bring them back for another season. They just don't care. Sure, they might play through expansion again since story continues, and that's about it. But I'm 100% sure, if you're diablo fan with limited time to play, you're reaching end game within a month or two. If anything there should be better balance in game. If someone's been running sorc with their home-brewed build, it's very likely they're getting brick walled before pit level 60, which causes them to quit the game. I mean, i could keep going with this, but overall, I'd disagree.

yeah doood,its tottaly streamers ruining games,its not a well known fact that streamers are the ones developing them and making them dogshit

Yes.

Xbox made the game free for people with game pass. The numbers you are seeing of people not playing the end game are people who tried the game out for free, didn't like it, and went back to playing COD. The people who do like the game are bored with the limited content available in the endgame. Those people are buying skins and season passes and need to be catered to for the game to continue to be profitable. This is not rocket science. This is the standard behavior of a publicly traded company. People staying for new content = more money. No new content = less players staying = less money = dead game. By the way, I do not stream. I play solo. I'm bored of the endgame content.

@mousinius

15 күн бұрын

he said steam achievements

Players who don't have time to play will not play more, because they don't have time. It does not matter how much content is put in the early game. The reason why part of players don't go over level 50 is the system are bad, no rewording, and the character progression is so dumb down it hooks ppl max to level 50. With respect IMO you totally missing the point with your logic. Peace Mate!

no one plays d4 because blizzard ruined it, its worse then D3, and the reason D3 failled in long term was bugs and the DLC, D4 had no diablo in it we mostly saw lilith or her demon father not only that but the cliff hanger they left us with at the end bro i preordered for 90$ i thought id be getting a better well written story with good mechanics in the fights engaging open world content, but yet blizzard couldnt deliver, and what they did deliver from that game budget was just updated graphics.

Steam numbers are not valid, most players play over Battlenet because the Steam release was waaaaay later...nevertheless the core game of D4 is still crap. Blizzard released a unfinished boring game with literally no endgame content. This is not the streamers fault.