This is such a complicated topic. MMA folks who train against other MMA folks not only learn how to do this move in a controlled environment, but generally anyone who's trained in BJJ or grappling has also conditioned and strengthened their neck. Plus, there's the awareness that you're not getting out of the hold and so you will tap instead of trying to fight it. In a street situation, there's no control, the terrain is dangerous and your attacker/opponent may not be 100% healthy. So there's a real danger of doing permanent damage.

You are right sir. I was taught the choke hold in the 90’s as a Military Policeman. I was also told it was sort of a last ditch effort to control a extremely violent individual with no weapons. One of the main lessons was you are responsible for that person when they are out. I was also taught other ways to control someone such as joint locks, arm bars and take downs. It seems like today the choke hold is the go to on the street, when there are a number of less potentially lethal and easier hold to use. I think it has been popularized with MMA.

@LOVES-A1911

Жыл бұрын

I worked in corrections and had to control and / or subdue inmates under the influence of various substances, and when pressure points, pain compliance, and joint locks didn't work a chokehold was the last resort in order to gain control, as soon as they were unconscious the hold was released and we were then able to place them into restraints and get them to medical. I'm retired from it now and don't miss it a bit.

Ideally, if you can gain seat-belt control with both hooks that would be the best way to subdue an attacker in a self-defense situation, but if necessary submissions like RNC, arm bars and triangles are fair game. These techniques should be done by people that have trained in a submission grappling style to prevent injuries or worse.

@jasonb9562

Жыл бұрын

Seatbelt is good. Full Nelson is good too.

I have worked the door for many years. Most of the time we are just wrestling them out, but a few times, to stop particularly aggressive people, we applied some chokes. It literally was like 8 or 9 seconds and they were out. In every case; it was very scary, because they were out and increased commotion was everywhere. I don’t advise chokes any more unless it’s absolutely necessary. When they stop, you stop… but keep an easily transitioning hold. We tried Aikijujitsu techniques, but bones can break too. So, we pretty much just grab them, overwhelm them, and take them out while avoid being cracked in the head or worse. You never really know what’s coming, but usually there are clues. We do not want any injuries to the customers. Thanks for the video

With the benefit of hindsight, once you have back control there’s many options other than the choke, but in the event you have no other choice but to utilize the RNC, remember that it takes a relatively short amount of time to put someone unconscious. And also that it’s not necessary to even apply the choke with full force.

I've even seen neck locking techniques referred to as "restraint" techniques. Use your best judgement. Better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6.

A chokehold is like ground and pound for strikers, the striker is responsible for those punching that occurred after the person is out cold, even if initially your force was warranted.

If someone is violent to you, you do what you can to survive. Personally I wouldn’t bother with a choke hold, I would have punched him in the throat.

@ArtofOneDojo

Жыл бұрын

He wasn't violent though. Threats yes, but didn't actually attack anyone.

Choke holds, chokes, and neck breaks/ cranks should all be learned where applicable. Whether or not they should be allowed, well that depends…different arts and/or vocations will necessitate different techniques…is it for sport or military? different circumstances will determine different variations too. The marine is not guilty of 1st degree murder…but 2nd degree murder…probably. It was a terrible accident. 😢

One thing I’ve noticed too, a lot of folks, even trained folks like Michael Bisping, do the rear naked choke incorrectly, putting too my pressure on the front of the neck and airway.

I think this guy didn't learn MA at a school, he was a Marine and learned there to use it in serious military situations. Respect the tap is fundamental in teaching grappling at MA schools. However, I would have a limit in regard to teaching these techniques to children.

FYI, there is a lot of talk about how long he kept the choke hold. The media narrative is 15 minutes. I would hold off until the full facts are given. I agree absolutely 15 min for a choke hold is an eternity. But I think we should wait and see what the real time was.

@ArtofOneDojo

Жыл бұрын

Even if it was only for a couple of minutes, that's far too long. It takes SECONDS to pass someone out...holding them beyond that point is doing quick damage.

@gregory4154

Жыл бұрын

@@ArtofOneDojo I agree completely. You can kill someone in seconds. I'm only pointing out the media narrative, which is completely inaccurate and UNTRUE.

“It’s not worth it, if it doesn’t have to happen.” 👍🏽

Thank you for the video!! This is a very good channel!! I'm an old maker.. still love looking at these 😁 Can I ask specific questions.. or do I have to become a member 🤔

@ArtofOneDojo

11 ай бұрын

You can absolutely ask questions. I don't always see everything on here, but I try my best to read what I can. Joining Patreon would make the questions stand out more, but you can always ask specific questions here on the channel. If I see them, I answer them :)

Dearie Dan... Please soon do a follow up video about the more than likely most deadly, and swift action chokehold of them all. The Krav Maga chokehold is what I am referring to. It is done from the thumb, down to the middle finger that is positioned as if you were pinching a penny between them that when the uppercut motion is quickly executed in that same formation of the fingers that you land them on the glands of their jawbone muscle to get them up onto their tippy toes having their entire bodyweight bearing down on those glands due to that formation of the fingers. This video kind of implores that soon video as a type of responsibility to your subscribers, and students across all of martial arts. Talk soon.

My thoughts: a choke hold is wrong terminology. You do not hold someone in a choke as a restraint! You choke them unconsience and move then to a different position allowing them to breathe but you still stay in control if you think they are a threat. A simple cross arm Sankyo lock was all that was needed. A choke takes less than 10 seconds (and I know many varieties. I honestly never understood the standard "rear naked choke" till a middle aged, 5ft 2in woman who was a university Judo champion taught me.) Not 15 minutes, this man commited manslaughter.

I actually commented at Tony Jeffries's channel where he felt that BJJ was more humane in a self-defence situation than striking someone because you could put on a mata leo (RNC), or other type of choke without injuring the assailant with strikes. However, I think there's more risk of serious injury or death by holding onto a chokehold too long compared to taking the back and stabilizing them or getting a full mount and, if need be to control unruly people, punching them (or open hand smacking them as Royce Gracie used to do in the early UFC's) as a way to show them that you are dominant and as a way to break their will to fight back. The problem with choke holds in a self defence situation is that with the ensuing adrenaline dump time stands still so you don't know whether you have had the chokehold on for 5 seconds (which is all a chokehold needs if it's being applied properly), or a minute at which point you have already caused serious injury if not death. Someone on the street who is not trained in martial arts has no concept of tapping out and we are constantly bombarded by messages from internet tough guys about, "There's no tapping out on the streetz", or "I rather be judged by a jury of 12 than..." which gives people the wrong idea about the difference between appropriate force for self-defence, and excessive force and assault in most civilized places. If there are no weapons involved, and you are capable of dominating someone then is a chokehold necessary compared to doing what Ryah Hall, Matt Serra, and Renzo Gracie did during confrontations: just pin them down. But killing or seriously injuring someone has serious long term consequence on the conscience especially if you have an ounce of sympathy and value human life. I would opt to hold someone down for control as the first option, and ground and pound if that option was there and the opponent was fighting back and being unruly. On the mats it is different because there is supervision (be it a ref, or a coach). and generally the person being choked will know how to tap out, or you will recognize if someone goes limp. But, I bet a lot of grappling schools don't even teach students what to do and what to check if someone is accidentally choked out.

@Scorch1028

Жыл бұрын

Personally, I like to utilize "grapevines" with my legs when my opponent gives me his back. I would hope that in a situation like the one where Jordan Neely died, that I would be able to snake my legs inside of the unruly person's, so that I could hold and control them without having to choke them.

theres some holds from judo where u dont strangle id recomend u know theres a reason the guillotine is banned from competition

I think that choke holds are essential, but to use a chokehold you first need to learn how to escape and know all the legality of the chokehold.

I train choke hold but you are trained how long to hold it. It's up you as a karateka y understand the pressure point and how long to hold it.

I dont think you can say lightly about "but the difference is how you choose to use it" as martial artist. I mean, do you want someday you are being charged killing just because you dont know the possibility of consequence of a skill that you learn? maybe from now on people should be warned to not using this lightly on a fight without referee? many other ways of constraining are exist after all

They should be taught under the presumption that they are being taught correctly, which is pretty much in all the ways you said. That should include the practice of changing to something else if one does not get a submission/KO in a few seconds. And, if they submit, freaking let go man.

The guy on the subway was restrained so he didn't hurt anybody.

@Babygirlly555

Жыл бұрын

I don't Daniel Penny should go to prison over this.

@thatcomicdad1687

Жыл бұрын

@@Babygirlly555 you're right he shouldnt

Politely if chokes were to be cancelled, then what about guns? If one has a license to carry, then they can do more damage than any blackbelt of any style

That guy on the subway was clearly untrained. His choke was sloppy and that’s also why it ended tragically. Any white belt out there would’ve known that and let go after getting control.

I will still use chokeholds especially with so many more drifters and homeless in my city.

In police work yes I think chokes are likely to go the way of the dodo. I think their use in self defense will likely be looked at with heavy scrutiny. In judo or bjj or MMA no I don’t think they are going anywhere. These are things that have been there since day one. I think that is part of the interest (it is for me) I do think they should be taught openly but with emphasis on it being a “mat only” thing. Any teaching of it in self defense (which I support) needs to have the legal moral and ethical standards attached. If someone does not want to teach that stuff then they need to look at what they are teaching and maybe teach it as a sport only thing. Responsibly is so important. 15 minutes is too damn long. I’m surprised a trained Marine would do that on the subway.

Definitely has some baggage with it now. Also folks who get in trouble with it seem to be KZread commandos mostly.

I really hate to jump into the conversation, but there's corrections that need to be made. The narrative the media pushed was 15 minutes. However, multiple witnesses say it was only a few moments. The recipient of the chokehold was a very mentally unstable individual who was threatening multiple passengers. The individual giving the hold called for help and the police repeatedly, and was assisted. He was also a licensed Marine Corps. martial arts instructor who had to asses the situation and make the judgement call, which he believed only a chokehold would be proper. In my and many others opinions, Sgt. Penny is innocent.

@ArtofOneDojo

Жыл бұрын

Making threats and attacking are not the same thing. Even if it wasn't 15 minutes, it was still FAR longer than it needed to be, and people were telling him to let go after the guy stopped moving. Sgt. Penny should have known that holding a person in a choke far after they pass out is extremely dangerous. I don't know how I feel about punitive action, but he's certainly not "innocent".

@furrybogard9724

Жыл бұрын

@@ArtofOneDojo I don't want to be political, but why is he being made such an example out of when the very same thing happened only with a reversal of races? And the person who used a knife for self defense had zero charges brought against him. The attacker died as a result just like in Penny's case. Regardless of whether he was right or wrong the fact they could very well put him in prison for what could be the rest of his life while a black man goes free for killing an attacker is horribly unfair. They should just make self defense illegal in any situation at this point.

@ArtofOneDojo

Жыл бұрын

@@furrybogard9724 I don't want to get political either, but I think it's questionable whether it was self defense or not. Penny snuck up behind Neely and put him in the lock, I saw the video. Neely may have been making threats, but he didn't actually attack anywhere. There is of course a question of feeling in danger, but it's not so cut and dry it was self defense. And again...he's using a technique that's not meant to restrain a person, but put them out. I'm speaking only about this particular case...he used a technique that was already dangerous, making the first move himself...a pre-emptive strike, and held that hold FAR too long. 15 minutes or 5 minutes, it's too long. There are valid points on both sides but in the end Penny initiated the physical contact, using a deadly technique, and now he has to face potential consequences for that.

@ArtofOneDojo

Жыл бұрын

@@furrybogard9724 For the record, I'm not advocating one side or the other, I'm just saying the self defense claim is not so cut and dry.

YES allow them. Next thing you know they will taking the guns away from the cops. and if someone dies.. well.. they decided to fight the cop. Not a smart decision

@ArtofOneDojo

Жыл бұрын

Eh, I know what you're saying but not really a fair comparison. You can release a choke hold after a short time once the person is out> You can't temporarily shoot someone and then unshoot them when they are submitted. Also, number one rule of gun safety is never point the weapon at anything you're not immediately read to destroy. That is not the case with a chokehold or submission. I see the point you're trying to make but I think these comparisons are too different. Also, there are people who have been injured by cops that weren't fighting. Different topic altogether.

Please do not cancel choking, until Musk chokes-out the Zuck!

@ArtofOneDojo

11 ай бұрын

Maybe they'll choke each other out and then they can tweet about it later :P