CORRECTION: I referred to PMC Bronze, the ammunition we used in this content, as M193 - which it is not. PMC Bronze is a civilian 223 Remington load, not specifically military M193 spec. I will have more content coming out discussing that in the future. That minor difference, however, does not change the point of the video itself in regards to barrel length and velocity differences with 223 (or 556).

@Gabthar

8 ай бұрын

Yeah I was gonna say, those are slow loads for 5.56

@tengu190

8 ай бұрын

Get you hands on an Arms Tech Ltd USR and USR-K. Interesting barrels.

@tengu190

8 ай бұрын

No 24" barrel?

He brought the Covenant Chronograph! WORT WORT WORT!!!

Just as a comparison, When Canada developed the C7, they went with a 20". The shorter C8 (carbine) was 14.5", but the Special forces wanted more velocity and the SFW program made a 15.8" (400 mm). The Canada C7a2 also shows you can reliably run a rifle gas system on a carbine buffer system.

@davidqbs

8 ай бұрын

When NZ adopted the LMT MARS-L, they conducted a whole series of tests. They adopted 18" for the general service rifle. It being the 'best' all-round

@509Gman

8 ай бұрын

It wasn’t just velocity, Colt Canada (or Diemaco or whatever they were calling themselves then) found that their cold hammer forging process gave the best accuracy at that length. That’s why it’s a weird “in-between” length instead of a whole number or an “X.5”

Pmc bronze 223 is 200 fps or so slower than real m193 like Winchester white box from lake city. I have one of the H&R m16a1 repro guns and get about 3250-3300 from Winchester and around 3050 from the Pmc. With that being said I can understand if you tested the Pmc bronze rather then a real m193 for the purpose of it being more reflective of what most people plink and compete with.

@ndenise3460

8 ай бұрын

5.56 m193 is standard 55k vs .223 at 52k so about 7% hotter

@Hornet135

8 ай бұрын

@@ndenise3460 and PMC bronze is on the low end of .223

Question from a friend who hasn't quite kept up: did you guys finally manage to scare the copyright trolls back under the bridge?

@ToastbackWhale

8 ай бұрын

Lawsuit is still ongoing. Most if not all of the original claims have been dropped. Russel posts updates to his socials.

@SinistralRifleman

8 ай бұрын

Last week the court issued rulings on all outstanding motions in GWACS vs KE Arms (KEA). Most of these rulings were in KE Arms favor. In my previous update I had mentioned that what this case started out as over 3 years ago and what the case is now are very different things. What GWACS is left with are allegations KE Arms used a GWACS investor packet or GWACS trade secrets in the development of the KP-15. GWACS’ motion to reconsider is denied. The court previously found that designs of the MKI and MKII are not protectable trade secrets. The court refuses to overrule itself with no new contrary evidence or law. GWACS’ expert testimony is partially excluded. GWACS’ expert cannot testify regarding the (1) the design, manufacture, and features of the MKI and MKII receivers; and (2) implying that KEA engaged in illegal or improper conduct if it relied on the design of the MKI or MKII for its KP-15 receiver. Reed Oppenheimer must testify at the trial. The court denied GWACS’ attempt to keep Reed Oppenheimer out of the trial. The court agreed with KEA that Reed Oppenheimer’s testimony that he declined further investment in GWACS' business is relevant to GWACS’ inability to produce and market its products and whether or not GWACS is able to recover damages for lost profits. Evidence of GWACS’ lapsed FFL and business registration is relevant. The court denied GWACS’ attempt to exclude their lapsed FFL and business registration. The court explained that “KEA has a valid argument that these facts are relevant to GWACS’ demand for damages.” In essence, KEA believes that GWACS should not recover damages for products it was not legally allowed to sell. GWACS’ investor packets will come in as evidence in trial. The court held there are triable issues as to whether Mike Kenney (KEA) ever received investor packets from GWACS. Accordingly, the issue will have to be resolved by the jury. The court has also ordered another settlement conference be held. With GWACS evidence and arguments limited at trial I remain confident of KEA’s eventual legal victory. The case to date has incurred costs in excess of $700,000.00. For a small company this is substantial. For a multimillionaire backed company like GWACS that gets multi-million dollar government grants to develop gunshot location systems, the legal costs are relatively minimal. Reed Oppenheimer testified he was willing to fund the lawsuit, but not fund new tooling for GWACS. The amount of money GWACS has spent on this case would have funded repairs and upgrades to their existing tooling easily or several sets of new tooling. The sum of their actions should be clear; they don’t want to service the commercial market and they don’t want a company that has the ability to make 1000 receivers a day to continue to exist. This is of course unless its GWACS selling those guns to foreign government forces along with their gunshot location systems. If you would like to support KE Arms in its defense against GWACS please consider purchasing merchandise from KE Arms. Code DEFEND2A25 is good for 25% off on polymer lowers Code 2A4ALL will save 15% on most other items. And now KE Arms has listed the remaining 30 KP-15 prototypes for sale: www.kearms.com/black-kp-15-prototype.aspx These are unique pieces that it is impossible to make more of. All serial numbers are under 50. Thank you again to the ongoing support from the 2A Community throughout this lengthy process. The 2nd Amendment is for everyone!

@DB-yj3qc

8 ай бұрын

@@SinistralRifleman Thanks for the update, I wish I was in situation to buy more to support the good fight. I've already got 3 KP-15S

Loving my 16 inch faxon pencil barrel. The lightweight upper I put together pairs perfectly with the KP15 lower. Great video as always

That ammo might be a bit under pressured. An M16 firing M193 should produce a velocity around 3250fps.

@jamfd3s788

8 ай бұрын

It’s 223 so yea

@u-wot-n8

8 ай бұрын

PMC Bronze is pretty slow, so yeah

@Hornet135

8 ай бұрын

PMC bronze is super slow. He should redo with Wolf gold/IMI/LC.

@jamfd3s788

8 ай бұрын

@@Hornet135 wolf gold is slow too, Winchester m193, IMI, and PMC Xtac are the mainstream loads that are full power m193

@Hornet135

8 ай бұрын

@@jamfd3s788 No, wolf golf is not slow. Over 3200 ft/s out of a 20”, right on the lower end of M193 velocity specs. Not as hot as IMI, but very close and consistent. PMC X-TAC is weaker than the ones I’ve mentioned. Ironically the hottest ammo I’ve shot is Independence XM193I, around 3350 ft/s from a 20”.

Thanks for the video Karl and Russell.

I keep saying it and haven’t done it, but… I want to test if the 20” barrel gives an advantage in extreme cold above and beyond the usual velocity decrease from a shorter barrel, I think the longer “available burn time” should create more velocity. I shot M4s with M855 at -35° in a previous life, we had soot coming out our muzzles and the bullets were hitting the target sideways past ~400 yards. Unfortunately it looks like we’ll be having a “warm” winter here.

Thank you for the metric conversion at 4:21, the non-American audience appreciates

@userJohnSmith

8 ай бұрын

Fps/3.34=m/s. Divide by 3, multiply by .9- how I do it in my head.

PMC Bronze is .223, not m193 5.56. PMCs x tac is loaded to 5.56 specs.

@mattcomchoc2957

8 ай бұрын

did i miss where they say that's what they are shooting? edit: found it! 2:16

@SkunkCreekRanch

8 ай бұрын

That with which I purchased, it did not. It chronoed right between AE .223 and AE M193 velocities.

Great that you showed the projectiles after velocity changes at the 1:00 mark thank you. My self I use 16" to 18.5" in different calibers, but the .223 Wylde chambered upper is a 16-inch Sentinel forged barrel with a 1-8 twist. it shoots 55-grain ball to minute of squirrel, but it really shines with weights from 62-grain Winchester OT up to the Sierra 77-grain OTM bullet.

In addition, the 5.56 not only from a 20" barrel but ALSO 1:12 twist. This allowed the bullet to upset much earlier in the target. A 55gr FMJ does not do the same damage from a 20" 1:7 twist as from a 1:12. Get some gel and you'll see what I mean. ;)

@InrangeTv

8 ай бұрын

1/14 was even better than 1/12 for 55 grain M193.

@bloodking73

8 ай бұрын

@@InrangeTv 1 in 14 suffered from accuracy issues iirc, just like 545x39 does in general, not quite enough spin

@williamflowers9435

8 ай бұрын

I believe the issue with 1/14 was that the tracer rounds didn’t stabilize properly, so they went with 1/12.

@Hornet135

8 ай бұрын

This is fuddlore.

@Hornet135

8 ай бұрын

@@bloodking73 It only had issues with M196 tracers in Arctic testing. That’s why the switch to 1:12” was made.

Great video. I'm glad I didn't go crazy trying to get optics with BDCs tuned to the ammo or worrying a lot about the barrel length. I might just end up buying another upper with the 20" barrel after seeing this. I like these videos, even if they might be "reinventing the wheel". I can't help but notice that you're using the same sling attachment on the butt rather than using the cup-style attachment. I know it's a total non-sequitur for the video topic, but I was wondering if you might consider a tutorial (in similar fashion to previous videos on the topic) covering sling usage for the WWSD/KP15. A manual of arms of sorts. I bought the cup-style QD and muddled around with trying to get a comfortable way of slinging the rifle but I'm not sure if I've done this right at all. Maybe I should have bought the attachment style you used. I just have no idea what I'm doing and would massively appreciate the benefit of your experience fielding these rifles in a thousand times more matches than I've ever participated in.

@509Gman

8 ай бұрын

IME with my KP15 there isn’t a “right”, it just depends on your use. Karl and Russel from what I have seen don’t really have a need to quickly detach the rear of the sling from their rifle, so no need for another part to break or add weight. I often shoot with a USGI sling in the “loop” configuration, so I am often detaching the sling at both ends during cease fires (leave it cinched onto my arm to save time for other tasks during preparation periods).

You need to use a mil spec loadings like lake city. I have avoided buying PMC because going by youtubes like yours the PMC does have velocities at least 100 fps slower. I would rather observed a velocity from the 20 inch barrel 3200 fps or a lot closer to it than what you all observed. You really from the 16 inch barrel want close to 3000 fps. Unfortunately higher velocity ammo like lake city has gone up in price and little hard to find due to an ammo panic buying surge. John Crump says the panic buying is based on false information relative to lake city ammo and likely the IMI is gone due to the Gaza and related conflict fighting.

@509Gman

8 ай бұрын

Lake City themselves have said on their social media that they have made no change to commercial sales

Consistent ammo and not much difference in velocity between the barrel lengths. nice video thanks guys

Well if your frag velocity is 2700 fps with 55gr ball, then a muzzle velocity of 2885 only has a frag range of maybe 50yds (with 0.243 BC). With 3030 fps muzzle velocity that extends that frag range to about 90 yds. I remember real m193 out of an m16 is supposed to be 200yds, but I don’t remember it’s real BC off the top of my head and my Hornady ballistic app is pretty sparse

@ugatobekittenme

8 ай бұрын

People say the frag difference is anywhere from 1700fps to 2700fps, no one knows that velocity it is and probably makes more of a difference between projectile choice

@snpr1022

8 ай бұрын

According to the first chart they showed 193 starts to fragment at 2050 and just becomes more violent as the velocity moves up.

@jacobackley502

8 ай бұрын

@@ugatobekittenme I think you’re confusing the bullet shearing in two with fragmenting. There are some published charts of m193 hitting gel at different velocities. Below 2700 it typically shears at the cannelure into two pieces. Below 2000 ish it stops shearing. It’s pretty well known how it behaves, but angle of attack and other factors like bone or barriers dramatically change performance, which is another reason why m855A1 became popular since it’s more blind to those things. Regardless, PMC bronze isn’t m193, who knows what this bullet does in gel.

@ugatobekittenme

8 ай бұрын

@@jacobackley502 by that logic, 77gr would almost never fragment if 2700 is the "magic number"

@jacobackley502

8 ай бұрын

@@ugatobekittenme Not at all, we’re talking about m193 which is a specific loading. Not about all 5.56.

@inrangetv I see your correction regarding PMC Bronze. I was curious, so this morning I took my 20 inch AR-15 to the farm today and chronographed 5 shots of Federal M193 in Lake City brass and 5 shots of PMC Bronze 223 55gr. My barrel does have a 1-12 twist. Federal M193 averaged 3121 fps. PMC Bronze averaged 2915 fps. That is a significant difference of 206 fps. I hope you will revisit this and use M193, and other loads. FYI, I shot 5 other factory loads that use 53-55 grain projectiles fastest, by far, was Hornady Superformance 55 grain GMX (which as been replaced with CX bullet) with an average velocity of 3209 fps.

I don’t think you guys really relayed the important differences. There is no problem maintaining a consistent dwell time across barrel lengths. According to Larry Vickers it should be about 4” after the gas port. The 2 main differences are: 1. the pressure is greater near the breach, so carbine length gas ports erode faster and 2. Carbine gas cycles faster and thus wears out BCGs faster.

@loquat44-40

8 ай бұрын

I had to increase buffer wt in guns that were overgassed to obtain the right BCG velocity as demonstration by the ejection pattern from 1-2 o'clock to more like 4-5 o'clock ejection. This should at least reduce wear on the extractor and maybe on other parts of the BCG. I have never seen any studies to prove or disprove this.

@bret44

8 ай бұрын

@@loquat44-40I'm pretty sure the information about parts wearing out faster came right from colt during the development of the m4. It's been a while since I watched the m4 videos but I'm pretty sure both small arms solutions and forgotten weapons mention this. Either way, I think modern day parts are pretty beefy and can handle the additional force. It must increase the wear to some degree though because the BCG velocity is higher and after it comes to rest momentarily by the buffer spring, the energy is put back into the bcg and it slams forward closing on the next round with more force than it would have for longer gas systems.

@loquat44-40

8 ай бұрын

@@bret44 Has this been shown relative to increasing the buffer wt to slow down the speed of the BCG? I have not seen that proved. Have an H3 in a carbine in 7.62x39 that was way overgassed.

Thank you for the video. It would be great to see a 10-12in barrel length for comparison.

Thanks, dudes.

Size does matter💥

@PiercedRivetHead

8 ай бұрын

(But not very much)

The original 14.5 I still think is the best all round, it depends what its for of course. For that CQB home defense, all purpose, its a dream gun. Shame I can't own one. Offer some in straight pull, maybe I could...

Could you do the same comparison for mk262 and for m855 or m855a1? Or their commercially simmilar siblings.

I always thought that especially in Afghanistan the best set-up would have been a 20-inch 1/7 twist barrel shooting 77grn for terminal ballistics at distance.

@509Gman

8 ай бұрын

It would have had the best performance possible, but the way that war was conducted it wouldn’t have had a meaningful effect. My experience was that if we took fire we just hunkered down and called in air. If we had to shoot back, Terry was already so close that long range rifle marksmanship wasn’t an issue anymore.

@djjd3027

8 ай бұрын

@@509Gman what did you have and was it sufficient for the task at hand?

Question:do different muzzle devices except silencer/suppressors effect bullet/rifle performance ? And does a moving barrel effect similarly?

The difference between the 14.7" and 20" is surprisingly small compared to what I've seen in the past. I suspect that PMC has chosen to load this "Bronze" ammo for optimal performance in short barrels. I guess that makes sense being that short barrels have become so popular lately.

OK hold up.... was that Molchat Doma's Krishi playing in the background in the last few seconds??!

So with the different ammo choices available, what are your recommendations for the most effective ammunition for each of the 3 different barrel lengths and what twist rate would you need in the barrel?

@angusmotorsports4715

8 ай бұрын

Mk262 MOD1 for everything if you reload or have deep pockets.

@MarkiusFox

8 ай бұрын

I'm not affiliated with InRange TV or KE Arms, I'm just a guy with a Mk.12 Mod.0 clone. The general consensus is that 77gr OTM like Mk.262 ammunition is the game changer in terms of accuracy and terminal ballistics at any reasonable range and any barrel length. USASOCOM and the units under that command have tried Mk.262 in all barrel lengths from 18" down to 10.3", and all saw a marked improvement in terms of accuracy. The biggest downside to 77gr OTM is cost. IMI Razor Core, Sellier & Bellot, Berger, Sierra, Federal, and the original Black Hills all make 77gr offerings.

Thanks for the video. Do you think barrel twist rate per barrel length would affect velocity in any relevant way?

@dirteater70

8 ай бұрын

Nope

@elDoober

8 ай бұрын

ish? if twist rate effects stability and stability effects drag over time, then increased drag will slow down faster.... but if a bullet is tumbling or key-holing on impact then it really is a moot point.

Saw the title immediately had to click 👍

Good info as usual, guys. Sinistral just likes punishing the ROs with his muzzle blast... much prefer a good flash hider, personally.... here's a test for ya, what kind of flash hider outside of a suppresser is most efficient, across ammo selections? Sticking to 5.56...

would like to see a 500 meter test with these barrel lengths. how easy or difficult it is to hit the target

@509Gman

8 ай бұрын

The only effect it would have with a known distance target is the shorter barrels would require a slightly greater come-up on the sight; and an imperceptible-to-the-average-shooter increase in wind drift, maybe. Where “faster=better” comes into play with accuracy is that a faster bullet can minimize the effect of errors in range estimation on an unknown distance target. Mechanical accuracy (all else being equal) is nearly unaffected by barrel length (if anything a shorter barrel is stiffer).

I SBR’d my KP15 for 300blk and sort of regret it, because for a 5.56 upper I’d be back at at least 16” for efficiency

@moseywhales9127

8 ай бұрын

Just put a 5.56 upper on it

@KlaustheViking

8 ай бұрын

I personally like my 9” 300 BLK for a “truck gun” sort of weapon and easier with my plate carrier. Lighter weapon for heavier armor protection, for me (I got steel plates for now, but may go for that composite stuff that I forget the name of it).

@AtlasJotun

8 ай бұрын

@@KlaustheViking UHMW- ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene. Basically made of milk jugs, I just call them plastic plates. I'm in the same boat though: Have steel. Am lazy. Want plastic.

@KamikazKid

8 ай бұрын

You can still perform at range with a 300blk shorty, get yourself some of Liberty's 96 grain animal instinct and you can get 2500 fps out of it and be flat shooting out further than with 220 grain subs. 300 blackout rifles are really flexible because they have such a wide variety of ammunition, don't skip out on the supers made for it you can stretch the legs more than you'd think.

Will you be doing M193 on a 10.5" barrel?

What's the maximum length barrel you could get before the muzzle velocity starts decreasing as it gets longer?

I'd like to know at what point in barrel length does the velocity peak.

A little older of a video although I'd like to see what happens with pistol length ARs, 8, 10, 12 inch barrels could be good stand ins. 8 Seems to be the low end of what I've seen (and what I have actually) But that info on the speed dependency of 77 grain being lower. I know M855 was designed to get faster velocities from shorter barrels, but that was for 14.5 with the M4 IIRC (but I could be wrong)

Hey funny man, muzzle devices? We know there are some that lower velocity, are there any that raise velocity? Like if you have one of those short barrels and you’re going to pin and weld a piece of pipe on the end is there something better? I lean to the shorter lengths myself.

@InrangeTv

8 ай бұрын

No. Muzzle devices have no appreciable impact on velocity.

@sixoffive

8 ай бұрын

If I come up with one I’ll call it “The Afterburner”

i like a 14.5" personally. the 16" doesnt give enough more to be worth the extra length, and if you really want velocity, you want a 20". i'd love to see this same test redone with actual m193, as well as something like 62 o2 77 gr otm

Is there a big enough difference between 18" bbl with a rifle length gas system vs 18" with mid length gas system to pick one over the other in terms of reliability?

What's the temperature that day this was shot?

Would have been a bit more interesting if you used joules and percentage changes between them. Recently Capandball made a similar but way more comprehensive comparison between different bullet speeds on the 45-70 and related cardridges. Highly suggested

@mikecavossa6450

8 ай бұрын

😅 more interesting to who?

@jordank9166

8 ай бұрын

Joules lol, this is America.

Is the PMC bronze used in the video marked as 5.56 or .223? I have some of that ammo marked as 5.56 and I thought the box quoted velocity seemed a bit low but not terribly. I think the box said 3120fps but I didn’t see what barrel length they tested out of. I’ll stay away from that in the future just because the price of that stuff vs Winchester white box is pretty much the same but the Winchester gives you proper 5.56 velocity as far as I know.

So... At what barrel length, do we reach diminishing returns for muzzle velocity I.e how long can a barrel get before it ...just doesnt add any velocity

You can't hide it from me, I heard Molchat Doma in the background at the end of the video.

I wonder what a 40X Remington with a 27" barrel would make for velocity. Maybe over 3200 fps?

In what length of battle does modern 5.56 ammo have a full powder burn?

“77g is the way.”

Does a muzzle device change velocity significantly?

@invertedpolarity6890

8 ай бұрын

No.

@TheKajunkat

8 ай бұрын

no effect. the muzzle device is there either to suppress sound, flash/light or reduce recoil. Using muzzle breaks on AR platform is kind of debatable how much they help due to the small amount of recoil generated. However, they are a true pain in the butt to anyone standing around you at the range due to a portion of the muzzle blast being directed towards the side. Some ranges have banned muzzle breaks for this reason.

I like my barrels like I like my coffee... Hard black and at least 20" Or wait... Maybe not coffee I'm thinking of... Just making jokes for engagement Maybe Karl will see this like my last blathering for engagement on these videos

@JaykPuten

8 ай бұрын

Also if anyone is listening... IDK much but I hear 223 Wylde is a good chambering if you switch between 223 n 556

Is there a reason that there seemed to be a downward trend in the FPS of the shorter barrels?

@509Gman

8 ай бұрын

Shorter time for the burning powder to impart pressure upon the bullet.

All hail the algorithm

300y is 274m if you wondered

Hey! I need my muzzle brake! I'm a delicate flower!

Soo... 20"=1550 J 16"=1419 J 14.7"=1390 J About a 2% increase of KE 14.7" to 16". Fairly minimal as its only 1.3" of barrel. 16" to 20" is about a 8.5% increase in kinetic energy. With 4" of barrel that makes sense. But what I see is the 10.3% energy difference between 14.7" and 20". While it may not look like a significant change in velocity (about 5%) the majority of KE is based in the velocity, so a small amount added can lead to quite a bit of downrange effect. KE=(1/2)(Mass)(Velocity)^2 Though I'm a 20" AR barrel simp, so take what I say with a healthy amount of trepidation.

No no no. number crunching needs Paul Harrell delivery stylee ;-)

Well, I got my brake for free. I also like the look of it. So I'm keeping it on there, even if it does make the report obnoxious. Lol.

carbon freefloat triangle handguard for a 20" 1:12 using only xtac m193 when?

I get good velocities in my 14.5 gun shooting ADF 69. grain and 77. Grain ammo

I use a 40" barrel so I get the most performance for home defense!

👍👍👍

😮

I use lighter bullets for shorter barrels it helps get back some velocity.

@000Mazno000

8 ай бұрын

But heavier bullets rely less on velocity for lethality

@ToastbackWhale

8 ай бұрын

Heavier loads that are less velocity dependent tend to perform better in shorter barrels.

Further evidence that 'what ammo' is just as important as 'what gun'. It's the flying rock that does all the work.

PMC does not make a Bronze 5.56, only 223. Therefore no, you didn’t use 55gr M193, you used 55gr 223. This data is flawed because test barrel lengths for 223 Rem is 24” and test barrel lengths for 5.56 is 20”. 223 Rem needs a longer barrel to achieve the same velocity as 5.56. If you had used M193 spec ammunition you would have had a ~200FPS velocity increase from the same respective barrel length.

Considering a .223, but I love my 300AAC, and with an 85gr penetrator or TREX round it hustles at 2550. 230 gr solids go through some impressive materials. .458 SOCOM is next step in the chain, or 7.62NATO. Getting the most from a single chamber is my preface. Same for all my designs. Everything that can serve more than one purpose is highly regarded.

You didn’t mention twist. The 20 with a slower twist would show more gains. I wish I could still buy 1:9 barrels.

@InrangeTv

8 ай бұрын

What? Twist rate does not effect velocity in any practically significant way.

@user-jr9jd1gm9m

8 ай бұрын

Del-ton still does 1:9 twist barrels, I'm waiting to see if I can get one of their 20" chrome lined barrels with that twist on a Black Friday sale

I think your description of the ballistic coefficient as a measure of how the bullet "beats wind" is a bit inaccurate. It's the measure of the bullet's ability to beat air and how efficiently it travels. I would say that the bullet's mass is more of an indicator on how it will beat the wind as a heavier bullet will resist the wind easier than a lighter one.

Military divers that are of the sneaky type use rebreathers. If on pure oxygen the diver needs to stay above 24 feet anyway. The 32 foot seal on the batteries is sufficient for that purpose.

@InrangeTv

8 ай бұрын

Good to know.

@stephenbinion6348

8 ай бұрын

@@InrangeTv Oops. Autoplay put my comment about Ian’s video about the HK underwater pistol on your, the following, video. 😂

@frozennorth3426

8 ай бұрын

@@stephenbinion6348😅 I was wondering if something like that happened, or if I Seriously missed something in the video

Hey Karl! M193 should generate 3,250 fps out of the muzzle from a 20" barrel. That PMC stuff ain't M193. Also, from a 20" barrel AR M855 will hover at 3,150 fps at the muzzle (62.5 gr). As for lethality with 55gr, the maximum effect is 130 meters or less from a 20" barrel. This all falls in line with the thinking that most battlefield engagements resulting in casualties (with small arms) is usually 200 yards or less. I have never thought a 16" (or less) barrel length was a great idea due to reduced sight radius, velocity, and reliability. 20" is and always has been optimum, especially if you want to use M855.

@drtmi8789

8 ай бұрын

Oh look. A NAZI supporter.

@Bojangles6

8 ай бұрын

PMC bronze is .223, not 5.56. The pmc xtac is 5.56

Good comparison and concise explanation. Based on these results...I conclude that I still prefer 24" barrels.

That 20” was disappointing. I was hoping for >3150 fps.

Does barrel twist effect velocity?

@InrangeTv

8 ай бұрын

No.

@alexbrokholm4883

8 ай бұрын

@@InrangeTv no even at longer ranges? If I shoot 77 grain with a 1/12 twist AR at 400 meters, will the velocity will be the same as in a 1/7 twist?

@InrangeTv

8 ай бұрын

@@alexbrokholm4883 1/12 won't stabilize 77 grain projectiles, so this is an irrelevant question. That said, twist rate has a practically irrelevant effect on bullet velocity.

@alexbrokholm4883

8 ай бұрын

@@InrangeTv okay, thanks

It’s not icepicking. The bullets still yaw.

Seems like ammo is more important then a couple inches. But that is more money over time as well.

947m/s 3100 ft and above. Original FMJ .. and explosion .. small far east people.. fast heavy stopper. No need elephant skin 20” penetration . 10-15 ” Job done.

A cold barrel is still key.

...or go with just a more efficient (for range) cartridge, also suitable for antelope/deer, like 6.5 Grendel or 6mm ARC, assuming you can make or find these scarce varieties of ammo.

Click bait for a sales pitch. I like it!😂

I keeo it 20" like god intented

Why no data readings from a 12.5 mid length barrel? Many data has shown that 12.5 has similar velocity as a 14.5 and adding a mid length system you have a better dwell time and not as much force in the internal components like it would in a 10.3

@bloodking73

8 ай бұрын

They probably didn't have one

PMC Bronze is not M193. M193 data would be more interesting.

@jacobackley502

8 ай бұрын

Yeah m193 does about 200fps more than these loads.

@foxtrotunit1269

8 ай бұрын

Weaker ammo is what most ppl use regularly and stockpile, and or would use in a worst-case scenario (bad logistics, etc. - 2020 ammo shortage) Having data on the worst performing (but realisticly available under bad conditions) ammo is more useful to know.

@goUkraine

8 ай бұрын

Correct. This stuff is not M193.

@loquat44-40

8 ай бұрын

@@foxtrotunit1269 weaker ammo is good for training. You want at least 300-500 rounds of Nato spec ammo put aside for SHTF. 1,000s are not needed with a semiauto rifle if one bothers to aim. Penetration of armor is also better with the nato spec ammo.

Winchester white box m193 is much more powerful. You’d be averaging 3100 fps from the 16” and almost 3300 from the 20”

@InrangeTv

8 ай бұрын

That's fine, but also not relevant to the point of this video.

Wow, a whopping 5% difference 🙄 yeah im gonna stick with my 13.7 and use that saved length for a supressor

@bloodking73

8 ай бұрын

The were using underloaded ammo, the 20 inch should produce 3300 fps, 3000 fps is much lower than it should be

@sethrich5998

8 ай бұрын

@@bloodking73While it is true that different ammo will yield higher velocity, the percentage difference in performance between barrel lengths is relatively unchanged. Also in some ways it further proves the point on effectiveness of shorter barrel lengths, simply using m193 in the shorter barrel yields similar velocity to .223 in a longer one. Ammo choice has just as much to do with it as reasonable changes in barrel lengths.

The test has a fatal flaw , the ammunition you are shooting has a powder charge designed to fully burn before it exits a 14.7 & 16 inch barrel and therefore limits velocity in the 20 inch barrel. I reload 5.56 with the original powder designed for the 5.56 cartridge " BLC2 ". It is a slower burning powder that builds higher pressure because it is designed to have a burn length of 18 inches for maximum velocity. I chronograph my range loads often from my 20 inch M4 style rifle at velocities at and over 3,350 & 3,400 FPS. The additional velocity of 400 FPS makes a big improvement on terminal performance at all ranges. So your results are misleading and inaccurate.

Finally, someone understands the impacts of barrel length on ballistics. The M193 and M855 were designed around the 20" barrel. The M193 was designed for a 1:14 twist, changed to 1:12 to improve performance in Arctic conditions. The M855 was optimized for the 1:7 twist. Many military and commercial rifles are rifled at a 1:9 twist, which gives acceptable accuracy to the expected effective engagement ranges which were a maximum of 500 meters for the M16A1 and 700-800 meters for the M16A2 (thus the requirement to penetrate the M1 helmet at 880 meters). Most infantrymen cannot acquire a target, much less engage it under combat conditions at much over 350 meters. Studies by the Germans, Soviets, British, Israelis and Americans all showed 99% of all infantry combat occurs at 500 meters and 90% at 350 meters and less, even in the desert. Israeli troops were dropping their FALs and Uzis for AKs in 1967 and 1973, even in the Sinai. The complaints about the performance of the M855 in Iraq and Afghanistan began after the universal adoption of the M4 carbine and the 14.5" barrel. This video gives one of the reasons for those complaints. Of course, instead of going back to a 20" barrel, which given the AR15 design is not difficult, the Army adopted the high pressure M885A1 which can't be used in some of the infantry carbines and rifles of our NATO allies and coalition partners.

magnitospeed, so that's what all the anime girls have on there heads

So have your barrels like Bruce Lee... Fast and like water... Not like Bruce Lee Roy from prison... Big and slow... Though both will still hurt you bad I'm a fight... Just one has a 1" punch (from 20"s) the other a 1' hulk smash (from 13.5 pinned n welded)... Still gonna mess you up cus you probably ain't gonna need that distance* *Not good advice, I'm an idiot, not applicable to people in flatter lands in the south, or less urban areas, message rates may vary, coupon expires when you switch to .308/7.62 NATO

Well technically your using 223 PMC bronze is 223 loading, not M193 5.56 it's 100 feet per second slower versus actual M193 5.56

@InrangeTv

8 ай бұрын

Velocities will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, but that doesn't matter in regards to this video in which we used the same ammunition for all 3 barrel lengths.

@ThomasBrucefye

8 ай бұрын

I think the issue is you're saying m193 and labelling on screen m193 when it's not. @@InrangeTv

@cutedogsgettingcuddles9862

8 ай бұрын

@@InrangeTv Russell, you have faaar more patience for the "well akshully" crowd than I ever could. Thanks for doing what you're doing.

@SkunkCreekRanch

8 ай бұрын

There’s so many variables…. The velocities I get from that same load from a 16” are nearly 100 fps lower than what they’re getting.

Well Karl. You apparently flucked up by calling .223 loading M193. 🙄

@InrangeTv

8 ай бұрын

I pinned a correction, put it in the description and changed the title. Additionally, I will have another video discussing that pedantic difference in the near future, and it isn't even the point (or relevant) to the results in this video.

Based on some of the data I've read 17.5" looks pretty much the same as 18" in terms of velocity, it's just splitting hairs though

What do you think makes a bigger difference when it comes to range and drop... Muzzle Velocity? or Projectile Mass? I want to see a chart, like a supply/demand chart, where I can see where the two curves overlap in the middle. Cuz I imagine, heavier bullets take more energy to reach the same speed, but they'll hold that speed better, despite the slight increase in air resistance. Where as lighter rounds don't need as much energy to get up to speed. So my question sort of translates to, using the same amount of energy, where is the optimal mix of muzzle speed and projectile weight?

algorithm

And that’s why the 5,45 projectile is better than the 5.56. Not velocity dependent. Why not change the 5.56 bullet shape?