Some might wonder what all these switches did in the control room. Some answers here: - Very good article that details each and every Apollo ground control console: arstechnica.com/science/2019/12/apollo-flight-controller-101-every-console-explained/ - Reference (large) document about the Mission Operations and Control Room (MOCR) www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/MCCFamManual.pdf

@blitzblutz

2 жыл бұрын

Is there a way to email you some questions?

4:23 .. That's 1960s for you. A switch datasheet and the example text is "Missile GO/SET" ..

These are the switches you buy if you're spending someone else's money.

6 dislikes are from resistive touchscreens

I have been dealing with these switches for over 20 years, they are used extensively on the control panels on the Washington DC Metrorail (subway) cars and I've repaired them many, many times, I guess I find it fascinating that now people are geeking out over them, don't get me wrong, it's really good stuff, it may be more widely used than most people think.

@breakfast7595

5 ай бұрын

A lot of government tech ends up as private sector hardware. Internet, TOR, GPS, etc

The roto lights were handy, if you don't like the warning they are giving, just slightly rotate them, and the warning goes away.

If you look for similar switches with modern design: Korry switches are used in modern airliner cockpits.

@CuriousMarc

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the tip!

Who needs LCARS, we just need one of those switches labelled “Make it so”

Over-engineered, extremely expensive switch? Awesome!

I worked in a utility plant that was built in the early 1970s by Beckman at an IBM facility. The panel in the control room used the very same lighted pushbutton switches. Hundreds of them. They are very well made, and operated daily to control boilers, chillers, pumps and other equipment. They are still operational today, some 50 years after they were installed. In my time there I could count all the switch failures on one hand.

I have a big box of old parts from 50s and 60s german telecom-equipment. I am 50 years old and I still like playing with that stuff like I was playing with LEGO in my childhood. Plugging and unplugging a "tuchel"connector is just plain awesome. Or rocking an old "Marquardt" switch between it's positions. The smell alone when you open that box is priceless! There is also a box of lightbulbs which sport a bayonet-base which is turned out of solid brass stock.... Happy nerding everyone!

As an instrumentation engineer in the 1970s, I used to specify those switches. Used them for a control panel at the IBM Poughkeepsie physical plant. Also spec'd them for use in jet engine test cells/hush houses at Naval Air Rework Facilities and Top Gun near El Toro. They were more expensive than competitive switches by (say) Square D. But they were also more customizable.

When I was in the Navy, I was trained on the IBM ASN-91 and the test set, IBM ASM-403. The test set had dozens of these switches and I loved them. Ultra-reliable and positive push and resounding CLICK. You knew the switch was really engaged. Thanks for a great video. I wish I could get some of these. They would last longer than me!!

The Rototellite looks like the switches in a master caution switch panel in aircraft. I recall changing lamps in a Grumman Gulfstream-II. And Grumman did build Apollo spacecraft! The switches have two lamps each for failure protection: if one burns out, its indication still works, and you have time to replace it while not losing function. In the G2 the master caution panel alone was an array of 12 rows and 6 columns, 72 switches in about an 8x10 inch panel. That’s 144 lamps. And that switch (or similar) was all thru the cockpit. It was a standard routine during maintenance to replace the burnt out bulbs. Often replacing 20-30 or more at time. And with the rotate design, it didn’t require an tech to replace them. If replacing the lamps required even a screwdriver, it would’ve been expensive shop time to maintain. If both bulbs failed, you borrow a lamp from another switch so they both worked, even inflight. A bag of lamps is usually kept onboard.

@CuriousMarc

3 жыл бұрын

And it turns out the Roto-Tellites were used droves in the Apollo program ground consoles. There are rows upon rows of them in the Cape Kennedy launch control consoles, like this picture for example i.imgur.com/VZTbLxL.jpg . But I have yet to find them in any photo of the Houston Mission Control consoles, where they seem to use Twist-Lite as indicators instead.

@larryscott3982

3 жыл бұрын

@@CuriousMarc Fran just uploaded a vid on Roto Tellite displays.

@larryscott3982

3 жыл бұрын

@@CuriousMarc Fran kzread.info/dash/bejne/hmyY1Kl7nrPKo6Q.html

@CuriousMarc

3 жыл бұрын

@@larryscott3982 Yep saw that, right here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/hmyY1Kl7nrPKo6Q.html . She has the dual color model, nice.

@larryscott3982

3 жыл бұрын

@@CuriousMarc Dual color: Go - NoGo Q: do the examples you have a Rototellite have ‘push to test’?

These are familiar lights & swithches on Boeing and other aircraft. FTW, I had to learn a whole new switch terminology in ground school - "alternate action, rotary action, toggle," etc. Many have pesky little "GE-387" incandescent lamps inside. Hehe, you have a different kind of "GE-xxx" incandescent lamp in your switches & annunciators, but they appear to be just as pesky.

These switches should not be refereed to in the past tense. In the US Navy, we use these exact switches to this day.

@TexasRailfan2008

3 жыл бұрын

Joshua Legleiter wow!

@MichaelSteeves

3 жыл бұрын

And nuclear plant control rooms.

@TooManyHobbiesJeremy

3 жыл бұрын

Who still makes them @Joshua Legleiter?

@ukranaut

3 жыл бұрын

Naturally. Launching a nuclear missile with some other switch would be a horribly bad taste.

@FrozenHaxor

3 жыл бұрын

Does EATON make them today? They make lots of cheap plasticy parts today so kinda counter intuitive for them to continue these up to the same standard.

Similar aerospace switches are still made today. I own an airplane that has several in the panel. Look up Eaton 582 and 584 (also Sagem). The "blue" filters are also still made. They're called, "white-correcting blue" or sometimes "lunar white". Readily available from Mouser (APM Hexseal "Silikrome" is the brand) in all colors commercial and mil-spec.

@CuriousMarc

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the tips! I looked up the Eatons, and although they are formidably expensive ($100 a switch!) and probably very reliable, it’s not quite the same, and they do look cheap although they are not. A bit too plasticky and questionable esthetics for my taste. See for yourself at www.eaton.com/ecm/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&allowInterrupt=1&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased&noSaveAs=0&Rendition=Primary&dDocName=VOL11_TAB06#page8

@alakani

3 жыл бұрын

​@@CuriousMarc Those are the 581 and 586, the 582 and 584 are metal. I'm with you, those plastic ones don't look great. I hope they didn't discontinue the 584

@aritakalo8011

3 жыл бұрын

Also Looking at Safran defense electronics seems to make Series 584 www.safran-electronics-defense.com/aerospace/commercial-aircraft/flight-control-systems/cockpit-systems (under documentation is their 584 catalog)

@lwilton

3 жыл бұрын

@@CuriousMarc Those Eaton lamps and buttons are the industrial control variety of switches, and have been around since the 1960s. I think GE may have made them back then. Definitely not at all the same thing as the military switches.

@NinerFourWhiskey

3 жыл бұрын

@@CuriousMarc That's not the catalog for the 582 and 584! The 582 and 584 Definitely available with MIL and aerospace ratings!!! They're not the same as the 10H series you have for ground equipment, but they're very similar and aerospace rated for commercial aircraft. Dallas Avionics distributes the 582 and 584, including full custom ordering. :) www.dallasavionics.com/cgi-bin/products.cgi?master=install&category=annunciator_switches&man=eaton&url=eaton.html Also Staco makes similar. www.dallasavionics.com/cgi-bin/products.cgi?master=install&category=annunciator_switches&man=staco&url=staco.html

Imagine being a 15 year old nerdy kid growing up in Orlando in the 1960's, 50 miles from the space coast, and being able to buy these switches for a buck each at the surplus shops. Each time the space program transitioned from one spacecraft to the next, they would build a new control room and test gear to support that program and the old stuff went out the back door to many surplus stores within a few months. I had to pump gas at a filling station after school to support my surplus buying habit. What a time and place to grow up!

Very well engineered. They have a good throw & need a definite push; they can't be operated by accident, hence their use in aerospace applications. Saying that, there is also a smooth tactile pleasure their action.

Switches of such quality and responsibility that they could avert, start or end a war....

@TheErador

3 жыл бұрын

This feels like a nod to Hitch-Hiker's Guide...

@graemedavidson499

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheErador There are some buttons on my Improbability Tea Maker best not pressed... I think it probably runs on Windows NP, adorned with the slogan “Where do you want to go today?”

@0x8badf00d

3 жыл бұрын

@@graemedavidson499 Non polynomial?

@graemedavidson499

3 жыл бұрын

@@0x8badf00d yes, Windows seems to be a unsolved problem but I suspect all will become clear on the 42nd iteration

The last place I ever expected to see an Elmo's World reference. My baby sister watched that every day when we were growing up. She's twenty now...

1977 - Just graduated HS and went to work for an oil company. The ship I was on had a control panel for doing the ballast functions. It used switches suspiciously similar to those in the video. During my 9.5 years on that ship I believe I only replaced one.

Some of our older (turbine engine) test cells at work have beautiful lighted switches. Over the years they transitioned to toggle switches and LEDs, followed by PLC touchscreens. We definitely have a lot more data available on screens now, but the old manual lighted buttons look cooler.

Brings back memories of the 70's working on aerospace/ naval tape recorders...

This is absolutely amazing. Many things are still better these days, but what they engineered during the Apollo era is something else. And indeed, modularity, we're starting to loose that these days unfortunately.

Just one more aspect contributing to my amazement at how many engineer-hours must have been spent just on laying out and specifying all those configuration options. A logistical challenge on top of everything else!

Who would have thought that something so simple could be so complicated (all the different permutations of switch types, customisation, lenses, housings, letterings and so on)

Very awesome! I would love to see a comparison of one of the neon switches next to one of the incandescent ones. It seems wild to me that they offered a neon option, although maybe neons were more reliable than incandescent bulbs? Or perhaps it was something as simple as just getting the voltage level that works best with your setup. It's awesome that they had that option though!

@CuriousMarc

3 жыл бұрын

The neons were the high voltage option. People liked them because they were much longer life than light bulbs I think. They can only be used with red and orange color caps...

I wish all the switches in my car were like this. I'd feel like an astronaut every time I turned on cruise control

@lwilton

3 жыл бұрын

You would have a sore thumb if you did that very often. They aren't easy to push.

@anonymousarmadillo6589

3 жыл бұрын

@@lwilton You can surely adjust the spring tension

@lwilton

3 жыл бұрын

@@anonymousarmadillo6589 Nope. Designed to work the way they did for reliability. Normal switches could false-activate under extreme acceleration and/or vibration. These don't. I guess you could have ordered specials with different spring and toggle mechanism, but as far as I know nobody did.

@anonymousarmadillo6589

3 жыл бұрын

@@lwilton Wow, yeah, its understandable. No one wants an itchy finger setting off a nuclear war lol

@lwilton

3 жыл бұрын

@@anonymousarmadillo6589 And nobody wants engine vibration pushing the canopy eject button.

When I was in the Air Force (SATCOM/Wideband) from 1985 to 1993 these switches were used widely.

These remind me of some avionic switches I got in a AWACS survalence plane panel. They're split like these on the front illuminated but more square. I'll have to dig it out now!

Great video that compliments Fran's video or vice-versa. Both of you are great!

The more I learn about these, the more I want them. It makes no sense, because I know that modern switches could be better, like LED or even OLED touch screen on a button. But there is something so nostalgic and even romantic about the quality of engineering and the attention to detail of these. Maybe it is that this sort of approach is not really done today too. I mean on the other hand I guess you would not need to have a slide out caddy to change a LED indicator either. But there is that ingenuity of mounting switches from the front of a panel side by side that we have lost as well. Thank you for the video.

I got a couple of these switches surplus over 35 years ago and said to myself - "I'm gonna build something with these someday" and they are still in my parts bin! (But they feel so gooooood to actuate!)

Admit it Marc, between the AGC restore and now these switches, you're self funding an actual lunar excursion aren't you?

@CuriousMarc

3 жыл бұрын

A few more wires, a rocket engine, some cardboard and duct tape, and I am almost there!

@djpablish6270

3 жыл бұрын

@@CuriousMarc could you please do a rewiew of the agc (Apollo Guidance Computer) of the apollo 11?

@CuriousMarc

3 жыл бұрын

@@djpablish6270 We did better than that. We restored one to working order and flew a landing with it! In no less than 34 episodes, playlist here kzread.info/head/PL-_93BVApb59FWrLZfdlisi_x7-Ut_-w7

I always wondered how these worked. Superb video--as always!

there's some pretty cool switches still available with customizable keycaps and lights. but nothing seems to have this sense of style any more!

GREAT BACKGROUND MUSIC TRACKS!! Really pleasant with the aesthetic of the old catalogue sheet printouts.

this kind of content is why youtube is amazing

Very illuminating. ;) At one time I had a catalog for something similar. Insane levels of customization.

I had some of these when I was a kid. I liked to buy surplus electronics at the San Jose Flea Market. That was in the early ‘70s.

Awesome video sir! Nice shout to Fran too, she rocks!

I want to thank you for providing this detail. I like to build CNC machines on my KZread channel, and I wanted to have my control panel look like a vintage Apollo control panel. So I'm in Inkscape drawing the images, then I will export them into my software, and when done... it will have that retro look. 🙂 Having them lit and unlit helps me to make my graphics look more realistinc. This should be a fun project when finished!

You have just remined me i have a whole bunch of these in loft I bought a long time ago. Can't remember which manufacturer or series they are, but I do remember trying to look them up back in the early days of the internet and not finding much info

Probably the grandfather to the more Modern Korry switches used on many types of Commercial Aircraft.

I have been collecting these since the 1970's and have literally boxes of them.

Those are wonderful switches and lights. Rock solid. You used to be able to buy them almost by the pound at surplus stores. I once got a full desk console (desk and all) with three 22" wide panels about 16" high of those things arranged on top the desk, for, I forget, maybe $30 in the 1970s. Say the equivalent of maybe $150 today. Thing must have weighed a couple hundred pounds. Like office desks of the time, it was solid 18 ga steel sheet with rounded corners welded together everywhere.

Damn the price of those things will get insane on ebay. As I am in France, I will try to find some of the Sagem ones.

Great era! very nice components and robust as well.

I saw the thumbnail and was like "hey, those are those Fran switches" and I was right

Awesome info! Great engineering behind this! 😲😲

These are really cool. I've been working on a miniature Apollo era flight director console for the past month, imagine making these look "real" at 1 : 12 scale

@CuriousMarc

3 жыл бұрын

Only you could achieve that feat! Looking forward to seeing it!

Those are like the over-engineered predecessors of the modern ubiquitous Chinese stackable modular switch block things: light separate from button separate from one or more actual switching modules

That was the first Elmo’s Show reference I have ever come across since I watched it as a kid 😂

ok... this video is AMAZING. I'm in love with them too now!

Very informative - Thank you 👍

Absolutely loved the production!!! Apollo control panel next???

Very nice! Good content, keep it up 👍

The indicators at the end of your video look like the indicators above the monitors on the EECOM station where there are a lot of status indicators.

this is the best video of the day!!!

@CuriousMarc: I have some of the buttons with lights but no switches for them to activate. Since I do not have anything to use them in, I could send them to you if you are interested. It would be my contribution to your channel, which I have enjoyed.

@CuriousMarc

3 жыл бұрын

That would be very awesome, as I have switches without buttons to actuate them! Contact me via my about page: kzread.infoabout

I love these videos.

Wonderful video! Any chance you might have extra front lenses you would sell or provide a link to a vendor to buy some? I'm looking to use these in a project but all of the switches I have are engraved with text that I don't want.

You and fran got me addicted...

Simply Gorgeous.

Switch gear from the GoGo years . 1972 the shares in many of these companies were worth far less than compared before the Apollo landing.

Sempre achei impressionante os esforços para se obter tecnologia nesses períodos.

Reminds me a lot of the modularity of arcade switches, very neat

Kudos to Fran for kicking this off, but watching Marc really go into depth and do actual research is so much more interesting.

We must be super geeky to like these things. I wish someone would take some Mission Control film and explain what the stations are and what all the switches do.

Oh God, quick how do we enroll this guys into retro switches anonymous, I'm really worried about him... 😬

@acmefixer1

3 жыл бұрын

The 12 Step Program! 😱😱

Very good mr noodle!

That's why Jetson got "push-button finger" - talk about heavy throw - lol.

YOO THESE ARE EPICCC

Thx Marc

The Chinese switch maker offers a stackable contacts switch so it's not limited to a few microswitches. But the more you stack, the harder it is to press the button!

alright, between you and Fran, /someone/ needs to wire up a split indicator one so that pushing it toggles which half is on. doesn't even need to do anything else, it would be so satisfying all by itself, especially with the orange/green split. also, do you have any way of printing/etching those new old stock lenses, (someone you know have a laser cutter?) or are you just thinking about putting a label in behind the blank ones?

Astonishing

God knows how many hours I spent in panels viewing these from the back side.

@FrozenHaxor

3 жыл бұрын

Did the bulbs go out frequently?

@EvilSandwich

3 жыл бұрын

Do you know if MSC still sells them?

@Ascania

3 жыл бұрын

@@EvilSandwich They are still on catalog. flamecorp.com/Safran-Electronics-Defense.php

@acmefixer1

3 жыл бұрын

@@FrozenHaxor The incandescent bulb's lifetime varies inversely with the 7th power of the voltage. So if you run a 6V light on 5V, it would last many times longer. The subminiature bulbs came in all different voltages and lifetimes depending on use. I would replace them with LEDs.

I remember working on Perkin Elmer mask aligners back in the 1980s (semiconductor manufacture) and I'm pretty sure that they used a bank of this kind of switchgear. Perkin Elmer did work with NASA on various projects including Hubble. The aligners were revolutionary in their time, but were a little "user hostile" as was typical of process equipment of the era.

The Unimax series 9 is also very similar to the MSC design. The mil-spec MSC (and several other totally different switch designs) can be found on ebay with the search term M22885.

@CuriousMarc

3 жыл бұрын

Right on both counts! Thanks for the tips! The Unimax 9 looks like an almost exact copy, I wonder if the switch modules are compatible.

@anomaly95

3 жыл бұрын

@@CuriousMarc For the Unimax, it would make sense if MSC licensed their design to satisfy the second-source requirements for MIL/government contracts. Strangely, neither Switchcraft or Staco made a compatible switch, and both are/were huge switch companies. Both do make avionics switches similar to Fran's indicator though.

@anomaly95

3 жыл бұрын

@@CuriousMarc Also, just a guess on my part: The M22885 might be a US/NATO mil-spec designation.

@CuriousMarc

3 жыл бұрын

@@anomaly95 I managed to snag a reasonably priced Unimax on eBay. I am curious to see how compatible they are.

@CuriousMarc

3 жыл бұрын

And the answer is, the Unimax contact blocks are indeed compatible, bulb color filters look the same, they look physically similar from the front. Otherwise everything in the Unimax is quite inferior to the Twist Lite. Action is both annoyingly stiff and somewhat imprecise, the lettering and plastic for the lens is poor, the diffuser is much thinner and lamps are closer, so less uniform, the button does not twist and is much harder to pull out, you have to pull both the lens and the diffuser to change the lettering, and it's a quite difficult operation. No tactile nor visual joy in that Unimax switch. It's a Twist-Lite lower quality ersatz. I'm going to save the filters and contact blocks and put them in my incomplete MSC Twist-Lites bodies.

You need to set up a split window switch with Magic and More Magic.

@MLX1401

3 жыл бұрын

This seriously needs to be done.

Inspiration for the Enterprise Bridge switches? Colorful blinky switches.

Marc, where did you obtain your switches? are they still available somewhere?

Hi Marc, could you please share the MSC catalog? It's fascinating.

Next level Awesome!

Awesome switches

I love these switches! As a child of the Space Age I thought the NASA control rooms were the best imaginable playground. In college there was a pile of old electronics equipment in one of the Computer Science Department labs. Some of the equipment had switches like these, and I'm sorry I didn't scavenge some. I did grab a bunch of those bulbs and I still have them. Now I just need a switch to put them in.

amazing

Absolutely excellent content, Marc! Please make more pushbutton videos if you can! Everything has now become digitalized and automatized and PCB-lized and I find the human-machine interface has suffered immensely in the process. In particular I find tactile PCB-mounted click switches an abomination, I am looking for a good push-button type replacement that could be also panel-mounted and shallow enough for portable projects. In the past year or so I have been researching pushbuttons, illuminated pushbuttons and other mechanical switching for some of my projects. I managed to get a box of Isostat switches made in Poland by Unitra-Eltra (under French license, I believe) and two boxes of illuminated pushbuttons made in Czechoslovakia, under license from PYE Telephone Manufacturing Company Limited. Hopefully one day I will get to make a video on both. Thanks again for sharing! Matthew

Those front lenses look really high quality. So much so we can see finger prints on them! (oh no)

There is a scene in the movie The Andromeda Strain, 1972 i think. In the scene where the recorded announcement voice is discussed, there is a wall mounted switch panel, with illuminated push buttons in a grid gang array. The illuminated push button remains depressed after being pushed, similar to a 1A2 key system telephone. The porn: remote electromagnetic release of the depressed button, with the OG boop sound. If you already are on to this, you are a nerd.

Heeey, it's super Fran. Nice plug, she has one of the coolest channels out there with super niche bits of electronic history.

amazing tech

These would be amazing g in something like a DeLorean converted to electric ⚡️

I've never thought these switches are so complicated.

Good video buen video thanks friend

Your Roto-Tellite could have been used onboard an aircraft judging by the 400Hz

I wonder if they make leds that fit like they do to retrofit old pinball machines

We also use this switch at Paris Le Bourget on the old Falcon 10 simulator. The computer is a PDP 11-45 and all have been working since the 1970s. acsst.free.fr/IMG_20201130_235732843.jpg

@EvilSandwich

3 жыл бұрын

Do you still have the old DEC terminals too? :D

@F-BTSD213

3 жыл бұрын

​@@EvilSandwich Currently we're using a VT100, at the same time for the SP-1 (for the visual). The old PDP-11/45 in action (photo taken last night. I modified my previous post by adding a photo of Switch;)) acsst.free.fr/IMG_20201130_235650042.jpg