My aunt was killed in a hit and run. The guy showed up at the funeral wake. He apologised and assured the grieving family he would surrender to the police. Interestingly, he had gone for a confession as he was wrecked by guilt. His confessor had advised him to do the right thing. Without the confessional seal, he might not have found the courage, and my aunt's family might never have found closure and reconciliation.

@MegaVega2007

Жыл бұрын

May God have mercy on your aunt so she may get to Heaven and may God have mercy on that man

@Matt-1926

Жыл бұрын

Sorry for your loss. Thank you for this wonderful story. God Bless

@bernardevillaw3410

Жыл бұрын

So the confessional seal allows you to kill someone and feel good about getting away with it.

@Jamesmatise

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for that. This is what I've said for a decade or more. He would have never gone to confession if he had believed the priest would turn him in.

@bernardevillaw3410

Жыл бұрын

@@Jamesmatise EXACTLY. No catholic would ever tell the truth or truly repent if they didn't think they could get away with their crimes and evil. 330,000 little boys in France were raped by 3,000 catholic pedophile priests, and it barely made the news, because people EXPECT that from catholics. Those are the leaders that show catholics HOW to get away with rampant evil, and use Jesus to do it. Jesus said child rape was UNFORGIVABLE (Matt 18:6-14), and everyone who supported it will get eternal damnation. That means every single catholic.

People are already unwilling to go to confession. Imagine if they knew there was any chance it wasn't kept a secret and there would be no consequences.

@codename495

Жыл бұрын

So don’t be a rapist or abuser? How is that a hard thing to avoid?

@batglide5484

Жыл бұрын

​@@codename495 the seal of confession is inviolable for all sins. From murder to lying on your resume. Extraordinary sins like rape, murder, and other violence are rightfully abhorrent to just human beings, but the confessional isn't a punitive system where we apologize to mankind; it is where we apologize to God. Aside from the obvious religious persecution inherent in these laws. It is notable that these laws could never prevent any abuse from happening in the first place _and_ there would be no way to know that a penitent gave a confession unless it was discovered after they were already under arrest anyway! This means the laws will not prevent abuse _and_ they will only serve to be used as battering rods to punish priests after a penitent has already been brought into the secular courts for justice.

@aboutwhat1930

Жыл бұрын

In serious cases, especially regardless of when the identity is known, the priest may Listen to the Father and require more for forgiveness of their most serious/criminal sins. Surrender to LEOs, resign or retire from a position of power, etc. Remove yourself from the occasion of further sin and stand up to the consequences of past crimes. Those can all be demanded. And if you don't meet the demand, your cardinal sins aren't forgiven. And catechism says that intentionally omitted cardinal sins may not be forgiven, leaving you in a state of sin. Believe what you will, but the weight of that guilt is immense even if you escape accountability.

@Cklert

Жыл бұрын

​@@codename495 Evidently, pretty hard I imagine. These atrocities have been around since the dawn of history and will unfortunately continue until He comes again. If things were truly that simple, I imagine we would have solved Rape, Murder, Theft, and all sorts of social ills thousands of years ago. But unfortunately, we're human.

@kyrptonite1825

Жыл бұрын

If it’s between a man, and God, then no, the Priest should not be able to tell people things during this convo

St. Thomas says, *adjusts reading glasses*, when people confess, they go before the priest not as a human being, but as Alter Christus. So the confessor only knows them as God knows them. He can, therefore, even in a court of law, swear he does not know what he has heard in confession. The court can’t possibly compel the priest to witness as Alter Christus, but only as a man, and as such he can truly say he does not remember. BOOM. St. Thomas. (Supplementum, Q. 11, a1.)

@orchardofbread

Жыл бұрын

That's awesome

@raymk

Жыл бұрын

This Thomas guy really believes in this Jesus thing alrite

@kevinkelly2162

Жыл бұрын

@@orchardofbread Not if you use it as an excuse to protect child abusers.

@DavidLopez-gv8mo

Жыл бұрын

@@kevinkelly2162 since you brought it up, put yourself in the penitent’s shoes: if you were a child abuser, would you confess? Now if you knew the priest was going to report you, would you be more or less willing to confess?

@bernardevillaw3410

Жыл бұрын

You're confused, because you follow the catholic church instead of Jesus. Jesus said child rape was UNFORGIVABLE (Matt 18:6-14), and everyone who supported it will get eternal damnation. That means every single catholic. Confession is 100% INVENTED by catholics. They just made it up, in BRUTAL defiance of Jesus.

Hey Mr. Horn, My mom teaches Catechism at our church and I help her teach the class. Yesterday, I taught my second class. You see, a group of students had been asking us this exact question (will priests rat us out to our parents/the government). Thanks to God and you, I was able to write some solid notes and was able to give a great lesson that was way more prepared than the first time I taught the class. Everything flowed naturally, and it was way better than just standing there and reading off a paper. Thanks to God, I think they understood and will be more comfortable with going to confession. Thank you again for helping me do this!!

Pray for me about God bringing me a Catholic man to marry. Please. Thanks.

@OrthoLou

Жыл бұрын

Where you from..? 😆 LOL

@faithwisdom788

Жыл бұрын

@@OrthoLou haha funny! But I'm 31 so I'm not in the normal age group I'm assuming for Catholics looking for marriage. You're probably 18-20s 😅

@timboslice980

Жыл бұрын

It's smart to make sure he's catholic. My wife and I were both protestant, I just got confirmed this Easter and she hates it. Truly it's caused a lot of problems being in different places sprititually.

@weopenest23

Жыл бұрын

I feel you girl, I'm 26 and it is getting harder to find a fair spouse ever since I finished college. I'll keep you in the prayers.

@alqoshgirl

Жыл бұрын

I met my husband on Catholic match 10 years ago and we were in different countries. Happily married for almost 8 years with 4 kids. Have you tried catholicmatch yet? Also just be very active in Catholic events. We know many couples that have met like that. Even Trent met his wife through pro life events

To the priest who opposes seal of confession: What are your sins, Father? We'll expect weekly postings in the bulletin.

The violation of the seal of the confessional, even in (initially) very narrow circumstances, would simply open the door to those circumstances and conditions being expanded to include all types of actions that government may wish to control or castigate in the future.

@jackieo8693

Жыл бұрын

Right

@bernardevillaw3410

Жыл бұрын

Your catholic pedophile mafia should go to jail for hiding information about your pedophile mafia just like the regular mafia would go to jail. Nothing magic about either of your organized crime syndicates. 330,000 little boys in France were raped by 3,000 catholic pedophile priests, and it barely made the news, because people EXPECT that from catholics. Oh, if you caread about Jesus, Jesus said child rape was UNFORGIVABLE (Matt 18:6-14), and everyone who supported it will get eternal damnation. That means every single catholic.

@jhoughjr1

Жыл бұрын

It’s why you never talk to anyone. Everyone is a mandatory reporter

@isabellep3444

Жыл бұрын

This fear of imagined oppression ignores the reality of confession being used as a tool to protect and enable child molesters. Ensuring that child abuse is reported to civil authorities is more important than whether a child abuser has a safe space to confess their crimes

@johnlove2954

11 ай бұрын

@@isabellep3444 Nope. Your priority list of crimes has no bearing on seal of confession

Sometimes allowing the breaking of the Seal of Confession is akin to sometimes allowing your husband to cheat on you. I betrays trust and ruins relationshiops.

Isn't it funny they are going after priests who would advise the guilty person to do the right thing. However, the same guilty person's lawyer doesn't have to disclose the truth and would most likely advise the person the options they have to beat the truth, thus doing the wrong thing. This has nothing to do with protecting children. It's all about control.

@Demonoicgamer666

7 ай бұрын

This may not have crossed your mind but most pedo’s don’t want to stop and won’t turn themselves in because they are cowards.

@Matt-1926

7 ай бұрын

@@Demonoicgamer666 Thanks for the reply. No it’s crossed my mind, not seeing how this changes anything? I would agree with you on this point, However in my opinion these most you talk about most likely aren’t the ones going to confession. If they actually go I would think it is precisely because they want to stop. This may not have crossed your mind but if the priest was forced to turn the pedo in then it would guarantee no pedo in the future would go to confession. Meaning the ones that want to stop would have lost this avenue of helping them stop. God Bless

A number of years ago I worked as a contractor for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), locally conducting a thing called the National Motor Vehicle Crash Causation Survey(NMVCCS). I interviewed the drivers of motor vehicles that had been involved in crashes, including those who had been in crashes resulting in injuries and death, and drivers who had been intoxicated with drugs and/or alcohol at the time of the crash. Those interviewed were as often at fault in the crash as not. The drivers weren't required to speak to me; it was strictly voluntary. But absolutely anything they told me was held in the strictest confidence, apart from its statistical significance. The information I obtained was for the purposes of research into the human causes of vehicle crashes and, as such, was not admissible in court -- it was absolutely privileged. If a lawyer, whether a prosecutor, criminal defense lawyer, or civil attorney, tried to get any information from me or my notes, I contacted my superiors, and that laywer got a letter from the U.S. Department of Justice, threatening him or her with legal action if he or she didn't back off. The federal government recognizes that there is just cause for secrecy about wrongdoing in some cases. Any attempts by a government to force priests to disclose what they hear in Confession is grounded in anti-Catholic bigotry.

@bernardevillaw3410

Жыл бұрын

Your catholic church is a pedophile mafia, and the largest child rape cult in world history. Your "confession" is 100% made up by catholics. In fact, Jesus said child rape was UNFORGIVABLE (Matt 18:6-14), and everyone who supported it will get eternal damnation. That means every single catholic. Yes, normal people are "bigoted" against your catholic child rape cult, just like Jesus is bigoted against your catholic child rape cult.

@williamwightman8409

Жыл бұрын

You confuse just cause for secrecy and governmental support of a religion. The public has the right to freedom from religion, especially special waivers to specific religious behaviors.

@PantheraOnca60

Жыл бұрын

@williamwightman8409 You are wrong on all counts. The "public" you are trying to insert into this conversation isn't the public, it's the government, and apart from the nature of human rights, which inherently transcend all constitutions and conventional law, the U.S. Constitution guarantees that religion is free from government interference. There is no "freedom from religion"; that is a slogan and nothing more, coined by militant Atheists. One of the reasons, by the way, for churches and other religious institutions being exempt from taxes is that it prevents the government from using taxation as a coercive means to influence religion. Anither reason is that religious institutions contribute positively to society in a way that no government can. John Adams famously said that Americans must be a religious people for the newly established nation to succeed.

To those who disagree: you can argue all you want, but the Seal is absolutely inviolable. Period. Even in, and especially, the hard cases. It’s good to explain and defend the Seal, but it’s not up for discussion. Every good priest I know would die before breaking the Seal.

@davidbraun6209

Жыл бұрын

The canon on this was issued by the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215, with Bl. Innocent III presiding, mandating the seal (already a tradition, as witness a letter of St. Leo the Great, Pope of Rome, in century 5, to bishops in Italy), further mandating automatic excommunication and suspension from priesthood with absolution most specially to the Holy See for any priest to divulge anything heard in confession, and further mandating as the penance for the priest seeking reconciliation penitential confinement in a monastery for the rest of the priest's life. I don't see that going away, regardless of what secular governments require.

@bernardevillaw3410

Жыл бұрын

HA. Your catholic confesion is 100% invented by your child rape cult. Period. Jesus never said anything about it. He gave the power to for give sins to the apostles, and ONLY to the apostles, and catholics just made up their confession. Period. Jesus said child rape was UNFORGIVABLE (Matt 18:6-14), and everyone who supported it will get eternal damnation. That means every single catholic. Period. You're just looking for a way to get away with unforgivalble evil, and the world's largest child rape cult, the catholic church, is there to support you with their pedophile mafia. 330,000 little boys in France were raped by 3,000 catholic pedophile priests, and it barely made the news, because people EXPECT that from catholics. Puke.

@Hithereitsme32

7 күн бұрын

@@bernardevillaw3410nice but Jesus said every sin is forgivable except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (unbelief); this includes child rape. Gods mercy is not beyond anyone or anything.

An important note on the Attorney/Client priviledge: The exception only exists for IMMINENT future crime. That is, if the client tells his attorney "When I walk out of this office, I'm going to kill Bob." It has to be imminent and specific.

@christopherflux6254

Жыл бұрын

This I believe is the right stance. If someone told me (a Protestant layperson) they were going to plant a bomb at a school that afternoon then I would call the police.

@susand3668

Жыл бұрын

A future crime is not matter for confession. Can't be forgiven for something you haven't done yet! So, it's unlikely that this would actually come up.

Yeah the damage this would do to the faith would be pretty powerful. If I was anti catholic this would be a substantial move to dissolution the people

@codename495

Жыл бұрын

This is the kind of thing anti-Catholics use to claim that we don’t care about abuse, or that we cover up and protect abusers. If someone is reporting abuse to anyone in the church be it in confession or passing it should be immediately reported to the police. For the VAST majority of abusers they cannot or will not simply “ repent and never do it again. Victims shouldn’t be subject to further abuse to protect the abuser. Ever. It’s nonsense like this that makes non-Catholics think that every priest rapes kids, because those that did confessed, weren’t reported and either did it again. Their victims never got Justice or help they got ignored and swept under the rug to protect their abusers. It’s wrong. I cannot understand how anyone would be against this. We as a church need to stop protecting abusers.

As a sinner I can confirm that I dont like my sins to bepublished😅

@joshuarivera2422

Жыл бұрын

If you have a son, and you learn he was violated by someone (priest, family member, etc) wouldn't you have like a priest who knew about this to have come forward?

@kevinfernandez9999

Жыл бұрын

​@@joshuarivera2422no

@markushill8639

11 ай бұрын

​@@joshuarivera2422If the priest who came forward violated the seal of the confessional in doing so, no.

@joshuarivera2422

11 ай бұрын

@@markushill8639 wow, you prefer that over protecting and having justice for your son. Crazy...

@Demonoicgamer666

Ай бұрын

@@kevinfernandez9999 if you care for a pedo’s feeling more than your child’s mental and physical health you’re not cut out to be a parent. In fact god forbid you become a parent.

Washington state also tried to pass a similar bill this past month. It's kind of odd that similar laws are trying to be passed across the country at the same time.

@treeckoniusconstantinus

Жыл бұрын

It's almost like the same people are responsible...

@DorperSystems

Жыл бұрын

“I want to assure you that your shepherds, bishop and priests, are committed to keeping the seal of confession - even to the point of going to jail” - Bp. Daly, Spokane “The confidentiality of the sacrament must be preserved so that individuals are able to freely unburden their souls” - Bp. Etienne, Seattle

Thank you Trent for this clear and well thought out explanation. Logical and understandable. As far as I’m concerned, it’s nobody’s business what goes on between God and the penitent in the confessional. The priest is simply a “tool” of the Church, if you will. Thankfully, many priests are given the gift of “confessional amnesia” when they leave the booth. It makes it much easier for them. Got a funny story for you: About a year ago I went to confession on a Wednesday and confessed a bunch of sins in many different “categories” (Hey, I’m a work in progress, okay?). Anyway, come Sunday the same priest gave the homily and I swear it was like he had taken notes during my confession and he covered each issue in his homily, in the same order. I was shocked! I wasn’t sure what to think. My wife said “close your mouth”, since it was wide open in shock. I told her: “That was my confession from Wednesday…in the order that I confessed it!” She didn’t believe me. Should I feel complimented? Embarrassed? Encouraged? Well, thank you Jesus for the gift of forgiveness of sins…at such a cost. Praise the Lord!

I wouldn't confess with a priest who supports breaking the seal of confession.

@Demonoicgamer666

Ай бұрын

Why? if you commit a crime you deserve punishment whether you want to or not in fact a lot of people go intending on being forgiven by god, according to the bible if god forgives you you don’t need to be punished. If you seek forgiveness from god ask him directly through prayer. But if you go to confession I’m not confident that you are sorry because why not again ask god yourself? Or say it person to person? If you’re going to confession I think you’re seeking gods forgiveness but not justice. If we are giving Catholic Church’s special treatment then why not make the entire church a safe space for criminals to confess? If you’re truly sorry go to police first not a priest.

@cosmicnomad8575

Ай бұрын

@@Demonoicgamer666You are confessing to God in confession

Thank you for your attention to this, Trent. Laws like this would accomplish no good and just criminalize all priests, because no priest will be permitted to violate the seal of confession and no abuser would take the chance of having his crimes exposed. Additionally why not force the reporting for other crimes? This is an attack on confession, pure and simple.

I think the best argument is this - if this law is put into place, child abuse criminals will not go to confession and therefore with actually increase the amount of child abuse because of the therapeutic aspect of the sacrament of reconciliation will be taken away from these abusers

@scottgun

Жыл бұрын

That's certainly part of it, but also it will scare off people guilty of serious, but lesser offenses. Really, the point of laws like these are to sow mistrust between priest and penitent and is part of a larger movement to criminalize Christianity. Israel is considering passing anti-evangelization laws. In England, a woman was arrested for _silently_ praying near an abortion clinic.

The Eucharist is God's Greatest Gift. But the sacrament of Confession-Penance-Reconciliation is where I discovered the depth of my egotistically hidden love for Our Lord and Savior deep inside my conscious rebellion. And because Freedom has been a fully conscious obsession since age 7, risking life and limb continually on death-defying journeys to get there, miraculously escaping death on many occasions. As a street kid starting at age 8, inside a radical commitment to being free, at age 11 I had fully processed this commitment and consciously walked away from God’s presence in a total commitment to my criminal rebellion, moving on to child prostitution, on to petty theft and burglaries, and at age 20 facing the Electric Chair, the King's Throne for committed hard-core gangsters, after being arrested as a ringleader in conspiring to commit bank robberies, truck hijackings, interstate drug trafficking and homicide, joining those elite gangsters who had thoroughly prepared to look Death in the face without turning to God for forgiveness, as close as one can get to imitating Satan. And even in that state of pure rebellion, God chose to miraculously cancel my death sentence with no help from me or my lawyers, for I had insisted on being fried in the glory of my rebellion since age 11, why I chose not to escape as an escape artist, looking straight into the eye of my fate. In fact, I had accumulated truck-loads of consciously-held-tight-to, depth-oriented, existential guilt sealed far off in a thick metal tomb, as distant from consciousness as possible (why I resonate with K in Kafka's The Trial, a spiritual reflection), and thereby able, absent that enormous pressure, to find death at surface consciousness enticing, the only perfect solution to the problem Camus identified as the Absurd, what always jump-starts a conscious connecting to an always-present mysterious invitation to cross that only line that matters. And when I was freed from the worst prison in America at age 30 after 10 years, I returned to petty crime, what I had mastered, not aware God was protecting me until age 38 when my daughter was born and I fell to my knees and asked him to raise her through me, knowing all the reasons I was incapable of raising a child in unconditional love (I could not justify in any way harming a child in any degree, including through neglect, what I could not avoid if God didn’t take over. And he answered that prayer). And it has been in a gratitude beyond what human language can describe that liberates me fully from the bondage I chose in aligning with Satan’s Rebellion over a lifetime that I began to sense why I focus first on the Sacrament of Full Forgiveness, an absolutely clean slate, becoming a saint in an instant, the ONLY path to Perfect Freedom in Christ in being FULLY open to receiving Our Lord in the Greatest Gift of All, the Eucharist, to be freed from the mysterious, incomprehensible depth of Sinning in Adam, a totally individual as well as collective mystery of guilt, no separation. Why would any ordained priest attempt to deprive us faithful of that perfect cleansing as so many clerics today set out to do?

Thank God for the bishop withdrawing his faculties to hear confession. I would never want to go to that priest for confession. Not that I have anything terribly egregious to confess I just wouldn't want to go to somebody that doesn't believe in the Seal of confession

What a sad concept that the government wants to stomp on religious rights in this way!

@bernardevillaw3410

Жыл бұрын

GOOD THING the government wants to stomp on your catholic pedophile mafia. Your catholic pedophile mafia should go to jail for hiding information about your pedophile mafia just like the regular mafia would go to jail. Nothing magic about either of your organized crime syndicates. 330,000 little boys in France were raped by 3,000 catholic pedophile priests, and it barely made the news, because people EXPECT that from catholics. Oh, if you caread about Jesus, Jesus said child rape was UNFORGIVABLE (Matt 18:6-14), and everyone who supported it will get eternal damnation. That means every single catholic.

@maxmaximus2608

Жыл бұрын

… to protect children from a predatory organization… what a shame.

@bernardevillaw3410

Жыл бұрын

@@maxmaximus2608 EXACTLY. Catholics made up their confession nonsense, in BRUTAL defiance of Jesus (Matt 18:6-14). Jesus said child rape was UNFORGIVABLE (Matt 18:6-14), and everyone who supported it will get eternal damnation. Got that, catholics? Your silly invention doesn't get you off the hook as far as Jesus is concerned. But catholics love confession, because it's a free pass to commit any evil, just like satan wanted it to be. 330,000 little boys in France were raped by 3,000 catholic pedophile priests, and it barely made the news, because people EXPECT that from catholics.

@kyrptonite1825

Жыл бұрын

@@maxmaximus2608 not even what this law is about, it’s religious discrimination. Also, that’s rich, considering Dems seem to love children. Another thing is some of them actually could be placed there by people like comm-es and so on, although that’s just a theory.

@maxmaximus2608

Жыл бұрын

@@kyrptonite1825 I don’t really care about Dems/Reps. To me it fits the bigger picture that the Catholic Church is protecting sexual predators.

God Bless Archbishop Listecki!!!

The usual "think of the children" move to gain more control.

@coachp12b

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. Always fun to have a bunch hypocrites lecture about morality for the sake of power.

@Demonoicgamer666

Ай бұрын

The same who scream that fraze are in favour of protecting criminals because they went into a box to talk.

don't worry, US gov and other secularist powers will be reminded soon they are human assembly, not eligable to impose rules on divine institutions.

@brianfarley926

Жыл бұрын

It’s coming when they will here in America. And most people will succumb to this gov authority because that is now THEIR GOD

Thanks Trent. Wonderful arguments and teaching.

This kind of laws has exactly zero benefits. Should such a law be enacted, priests would take measures to ensure they are utterly unable to ever identify a penitent. Then what? Will the state mandate all would-be penitents to submit their ID and fingerprints to a public registry? Will it regulate how sacraments are to be administered? Will it send fake penitents to test compliance? Meanwhile, abusers who want to confess their sins (I guess not many, but who knows?) would refrain from doing so; or would do so in a remote town or abroad. Behind a thin veil of “what about the children”, these proposals are nothing but a power grab by those who want a totalitarian state. Or, if you want the historical version, a compulsion to offer sacrifices to the Emperor.

@DavidLopez-gv8mo

Жыл бұрын

Facts

This seems like purely a move for control, if a person commits a grievous crime like that would they even confess it with the seal, and wouldn't they just not go to confession if they thought they would be caught because of their confession.

@eddardgreybeard

Жыл бұрын

In that case you'd just withhold forgiveness until the guilty party turned himself in, and offer the opportunity afterwards.

@PantheraOnca60

Жыл бұрын

@@eddardgreybeard Absolution can't be withheld on the condition of the penitent having to turn themselves in, if I'm understanding your comment correctly.

@eddardgreybeard

Жыл бұрын

@@PantheraOnca60 "Any sins you retain they are retained." He is at his discretion to not offer forgiveness. If a priest cannot ask the right thing be done before he offers forgiveness, what's the point? The priest obviously can't report on him, but he can refuse to forgive. Why wouldn't he be able to demand corrective action take place first?

@batglide5484

Жыл бұрын

​@Eddard Greybeard because that would violate the seal of confession. You can't require someone to disclose their confession in order to recieve absolution. A priest can recommend that a penitent turn themselves in, but cannot require it as a term of absolution.

@joshuarivera2422

Жыл бұрын

​@@batglide5484 well, according to the Catholic Church they do have they keys to heaven, so why not?

Hey Trent! I’m a recent convert as of this Easter and I love your videos, I listen to hours of you a day while at work. My family however is old southern baptist so you can imagine the displeasure at this conversion. My dad just sent me “The Trail of Blood” by J. M. Carrol and I know it’s Baptist successionism but it would be killer if you made a video rebutting it as I’m pretty new to all this and could use the help. I don’t know if you ever struggle to come up with ideas for how many videos you make but I hope my idea makes the cut! Thank you!

@PuzzlesC4M

Жыл бұрын

If you don’t get a response from Trent, try David Anders. I’ve heard him talk about it. But, yes, a COT video debunking that would be epic.

Thank you.

Then why would people ever go to confession if they knew priests would go straight to the police

@wynbrown5985

Жыл бұрын

I think that's the governments agenda to stop Christianity.

As Catholics we believe that we encounter Jesus Himself acting through the priest in the Confessional to forgive sins. Would we expect God Himself to disclose to authorities in some fashion? If the priest is His extension/instrument, why would we expect that of the priest?

@danielhaas9469

Жыл бұрын

Read the old testament mate that is excatly what God does. God punishes Ahab by sending a deceiving spirit to Ahabs prophets. God is a God of justice my dude and of course mercy. But why would you want a criminal walking around the streets?

@nickmedley4749

Жыл бұрын

@@danielhaas9469 I’m not sure I follow your point exactly. Sure when His people were in imminent danger He sent prophets, but He has a vantage point we don’t. Notice He doesn’t turn in criminals by personally going to the police/authorities, because He’d be an intrusive, even tyrannical God that doesn’t respect our capacity to make mistakes.

@danielhaas9469

Жыл бұрын

@Nick Medley the point I am making is since God is a God of justice he enforces his laws by various punishments. Some of which included death. So, if a person committed murder then that person's life was forfeit and sentenced to death. What is essentially being stated from Trent and by extension the Catechism is keeping secret crimes done against humanity. Is this really what God wants? No, as is written expose the work we have done so that what is done is done in the light. For those who do things in secert are in darkness. It is a call to change our perception on justice and true repentance and yes that could mean serving jail time for serious crimes down to paying a small misdemeanor payment. If God sent to David a prophet to tell him of his crimes done in secret and then spares his life but takes bathsebas son as well as splitting the nation in two by his own sons which one is showing justice? If God did not punish David he of course is still justified to do so but how would we know of his justice if he did not. As is also written: God uses vessels to for judgment and punishment to demonstrate his mercy on the vessels God chose to demonstrate his mercy. In this way God shows us he is to be feared and also revered

Well said

Public sin may lead to excommunication, in which case we would receive knowledge that it had been confessed by way of the lifting of the excommunication... but that's about it

@davidcatabui2018

Жыл бұрын

Public sins that are punished with excommunication require public repentance for the excommunication to be lifted

@drigondii

Жыл бұрын

@davidcatabui2018 well, that wraps that up

Patron saint John Nepomucene was tortured, imprisoned, and killed for not revealing confessions of a Queen to the King. I cannot imagine being a priest and not being 100% behind the seal. do not give confessions to a priest unless you know they stand with it. it's insane

I believe a priest shouldn't absolve someone that confesses to a crime but wants to get away with it. The 8th commandment states to not bear false witness, if someone intends to not get caught in their crime, they obviously intend to break that commandment.

@djo-dji6018

Жыл бұрын

You can fool the priest but not God. One is not forgiven by God if the confession wasn't sincere.

@tafazzi-on-discord

Жыл бұрын

@@djo-dji6018 Please read John 20:23. The priest's forgiveness IS efficacious as long as you don't lie, as far as I understand

@djo-dji6018

Жыл бұрын

​@@tafazzi-on-discord You basically repeated what I wrote.

@tafazzi-on-discord

Жыл бұрын

@@djo-dji6018 I can sincerely say "I committed this crime, I truly repent, I regret it and I'll never do that again but I want to get away with it"

@DorperSystems

Жыл бұрын

@@djo-dji6018 The fear of Hell is enough to make a confession sincere.

It's truly sickening to see foolish men who are supposed to be shepherds so ignorant of the faith and their own duties. Breaking the seal brings heavy consequences for the priest's soul as well. The expectation is that if someone approaches you and says that you must break it or die, the priest must choose to die a Martyr, rather than break the seal of confession.

The government definitely should not be allowed in our confessionals!🕊️✝️🤯

If I were on the jury and part of witness testimony includes the accused's confession to a priest - NOT GUILTY ON ALL CHARGES.

@codename495

Жыл бұрын

So you would ignore all of the crimes committed, all of the victims pain, suffering and lifelong trauma because you didn’t like how the abuser was caught? What is wrong with you.

@theurzamachine

Жыл бұрын

​@@codename495 Yeah I would. If the prosecution were concerned with those same matters, they should back off.

@johnlove2954

11 ай бұрын

@@codename495 Yep. The people who ignore procedure and try to trap criminals to get justice, are actually just getting revenge and would not apply the same if the situation changes. Like the #MeToo crowd

It just seems like it going to lead to slippery slope. What is there to stop them from later on adding more things that a priest have to report. Beside this law is so self defeating. If the person in question did commit the crime then they just won't go to confession if they knew they going be reported. Second problem with this is that the priest could simply choice not to follow the law. After all how can you even enforce it

Hey Trent, could you do a video on celibacy and the assumption that celibacy leads to sexual abuse?

My favorite Hitchcock film was "I Confess." (1953)

This, like taxing churches, means the state gets to control which religion is practiced. And religion is not merely worship, which advocates of these short sighted pieces of legislation. Sure, it may seem incremental at first, yet in all cases of history, it becomes overwhelming. And, even with reforms, the control never goes away.

Bring back anonymous confession.

@coachp12b

Жыл бұрын

It never left.

@jendoe9436

Жыл бұрын

Isn’t that already a thing? Most places still have private confessional booths and it’s pretty easy to find other confessions at different parishes. There’s even circuits of evening Confessions where different priests are brought in to hear Confessions. Anonymous confessions are definitely still a thing.

Why dont they allow the seculars to do this? The lawyers and the doctors for example. WHy are they singling out the religious?

@codename495

Жыл бұрын

Because doctors are required to report abuse, as are lawyers in every aspect other than in a specific case they are currently defending. If a rapist tells his lawyer point blank “ I did it, I’m sorry I don’t plan on doing it again. “ the lawyer cannot use that in his defense case,if the rapist says” I’m going to rape someone after this appointment” the lawyer has to report it. Confession is for temporal absolution not avoiding prosecution in the here and now.

@akak8299

Жыл бұрын

@@codename495 doctor-patient confidentiality. Doctors can never be forced to disclose the medical condition of a patient. Same with lawyer and his client. No lawyer has ever testified against any client in as far as his confession is concerned

@danielhaas9469

Жыл бұрын

@@akak8299 and that is a problem...what then are these lawyers defending? But rather protecting the guilty of a crime they confessed! See the irony with your logic?

@codename495

Жыл бұрын

@@akak8299 Nope! There is no such thing as doctor patient confidentiality. There is HIPAA that protects agains identifiable information being published but if a child goes to the ER and in checking the kid we find signs of abuse, neglect or other crimes ( and they teach us what to look for) we immediately inform the police. Adults with intact mental faculty can stop us from reporting signs of abuse, children on the other hand cannot. If you bring a human under the age of 18 into my ER and I find even tentative signs of physical, emotional, sexual abuse or neglect I will and have happily called the police, told them what I found and turned the remaining investigation over. I’ve never known a nurse male or female who wouldn’t do the same.

Why would someone repent of child abuse and continue to raise or be a guardian to the child in question?

Priest's aren't going to go along with this!

I believe in line with the Church on this. That said, I know a priest who attempted to use the seal of Confession to protect himself. Three women came forward accusing him of sexual misconduct in the confessional (I was one of them), and part of his defense was, "it was in confession, so I can't discuss it because of the seal." The seal is there to protect the penetint. Its not there to allow the confessor to abuse. I think more public discussion about what the seal actually is and is for is a good and needed thing. (Yes I reported the abuse to the diocese he was in, yes I reported it to the police).

@Hithereitsme32

7 күн бұрын

A priest can’t forgive sins that he was a part of

You know what happens when you break the seal…. Just saying.

Just tell the penitent to "turn themselves in; that's all a priest can do.

@codename495

Жыл бұрын

And they won’t and their victims will still be there getting abused further.

@annmcerlean5017

Жыл бұрын

@@codename495 That's not the fault of the priest; confession is a sacrament; the "moral law is higher than any civil law"!

@davidcatabui2018

Жыл бұрын

@@codename495well if the priest assigns as the penance to turn himself in and he doesn't, his sins are not forgiven anyway

@EmberBright2077

2 ай бұрын

​@@davidcatabui2018 I'm pretty sure he can't assign a penance that breaks the seal of confession.

@davidcatabui2018

2 ай бұрын

@@EmberBright2077 you may be right about that

I understand why the seal of confession is inviolable, but why arent priests allowed to delay absolution unless someone turns themselves in?

@jameslonogan1799

6 ай бұрын

Making self-snitching a condition of absolution makes the Seal of Confession meaningless. "Oh, I'm not gonna betray your confidence. I'll just coerce you to betray it yourself!"

Well then, the priest should also be required to start the confession,with the Miranda warning..

Ok, so now I have more question. Why are there some Reserved Sins like apostasy, physically attacking a bishop, and previously abortion? Can we just add molesting children to the list? What about murdering a nun?

I’m glad Trent is having success on KZread, but the adds are ridiculous. This piece is 16:42 minutes and there were SEVEN advertisement break ins. Guy can’t get a word in edgewise and it’s maddening to try to listen to.

Umm the Priest is honor bound to hold to the seal of confession otherwise we can’t truly confess our sins to God if the Priest will scandalize us because he feels like it

This is nuts. The priest should just make turning themselves in to the police their penance. That way the criminal would burn in Hell for what they've done unless they truly regret what they've done and turn themselves over to police.

@davidcatabui2018

Жыл бұрын

I was always taught, though I've never tested it myself, that if you go to Confession with a sin like stealing something valuable or a large amount of money your penance will probably be to give it back

@nathanieldrain907

Жыл бұрын

Canon law says you can't make disclosing your sin to anyone as part of your penance.

@davidcatabui2018

11 ай бұрын

@@nathanieldrain907 where?

I'm starting to think that Orson Wells was prophetic when he made 1984 the more I was these things.

sorry guys , if its bit long just touching main points The confessional secrecy is dogmas of the Church, since ancient times and accorded the same honor and status by States around the world. From time immemorial until now. Its the unction for the soul of those in grave sins, following Our Lords command before ascension john 20:23" Who so ever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and who so ever sins ye retain, they are retained" .Our catholic church is a place of refuge and forgiveness for sinners. It's not a conduit to snitch on sinners howsoever grave.. according to Justice dept, only 20% among females ages 18-24, and 32% among others report the sex abuse to the authorities but the fact is those who were seriously impaired pursued the cases, as and when it occurred, fear of reprisal or being ignored are mere excuses or perhaps it can be construed as consensual. Most of these abuse cases was based on "repressed childhood memories". In grand jury reports (Penn state, years ago) you would often find out of 300 clergy cases only 2 are alive . These are priests long dead who obviously cannot defend themselves . It is for parents who are bound by legal custodial rights to bring the cases to Law enforcement as and when it occurs. "On August 16, 2010 the United States Second Circuit Court of Appeals in a case reversed the conviction that relied on claimed victim memories of childhood abuse stating that "The record here suggests a "reasonable likelihood" that Jesse Friedman was wrongfully convicted. The "new and material evidence” in this case is the post-conviction consensus within the social science community that suggestive memory recovery tactics can create false memories" The ruling goes on to order all previous convictions and plea bargains relying in repressed memories using common memory recovered techniques be reviewed". Besides, hundreds of felons, some even on death rows have been exonerated in USA and other countries due to advances in technology pertaining field of forensic science, which only proves beyond reasonable doubt that eyewitness/victims testimony should not be the key determining factor in convicting anyone for sex crimes which are prominent in the cases which have been exonerated. There was case years ago in WSJ, when US govt, flew a heart surgeon for a terrorist, who had a heart attack and the bill $75.000. yes, you cannot deny human rights under Geneva convention- terrorist or not.. .Similarly in matters of soul, we have confessional which is bound by seal of secrecy and forgiveness thereof for the repentant even for hardened criminals . Can the US govt deny this final unction for their souls?. Its just not privacy ir Confessional seal, its also basic Human right issue.

I believe in the absolute seal of confession; however, I believe that in the case of child sexual abuse by clergy, too many bishops and priest-administrators hid behind a claim of the seal when they were discussing the abuse with perpetrators when NOT actually acting as confessors. Hence, the attempt by legislators to weaken the seal. It seems to me that a better approach would be to allow trial judges to disallow bogus invocations of the seal.

Why can't we say: "Government has no authority to impose such a requirement of the ministers of a higher power who is God?"

The SOUL and IT'S ETERNAL LIFE; far out weighs a person's Physical limited life here! Especially when one realizes what This life; Is ALL about; making it back Home! Forever! With it's ETERNAL CREATOR!!! This IS Exactly what distinguishes us from All other life forms! Those who jeopardize this; had better realize they are Putting their own Personal ETERNITY! If One doesn't Believe in GOD; they Most Certainly WILL WHEN they Stand Before HIM; as We ALL WILL! BELIEVE OR NOT NOW! (As I was writing this; I was falling asleep. My hand was on my phone and when I looked up at my phone; this is what I saw! 16:42 16:42) !!!! I just looked it up! And I'd say; pretty Amazing!!!

The more important question is, whose side is Holy Trinity God taking? The Bible needs more books.

Nice and early for this comment.

“Sleazy defense attorneys?” That’s not nice. It’s not fair either. There are Catholic criminal defense attorneys.

I am going to say this and has had the unfortunate role of being in a similar situation. They are situations where its right and appropriate to inform others about someone else sin. That doesn't mean everyone should be informed but it means some people should be informed. They are people who would go to confession and not be genuinely repentant, its naive to think that isn't the case. so you might argue that a priest who hears the sin of inappropriate behaviour would say for a person penance they should go to the police and tell of the situation but would the person actually do that. some would, others would say no I don't need to do that. Then what happens if a incident occurs following it. you are indirectly responsible because you could have chosen to do something to prevent it but chose not to. There is even precedent for this biblically. Consider the story of David and Bathsheba. God was not shy about letting people know what happened. I am not saying that someones sin should be broadcast in the same way but I am saying that we have to put God's law and the honour of his name far above our own sense of privacy and decency. If a person told me of a sin they had done confidential and by keeping it private I would dishonour God's name I would have to inform them of that situation and say that I could not in good conscience keep it confidential no matter the situation

Another person who is not obligated to report child abuse (or other crimes) is a spouse.

@emersonb.5399

Жыл бұрын

That depends on the state. In some states only certain professions are mandated to report; in others all citizens are mandated reporters and that includes spouses. Spousal privilege only applies to testimony in a court, not to reporting crimes to the police, and it does not apply to domestic and child abuse. Even if the spouse isn’t a mandated reporter and can’t be charged for not reporting the abuse, they can still lose custody of the child.

@trishrandall5031

Жыл бұрын

@@emersonb.5399 That undermines the whole point of spousal immunity.

Trent should interview Fr Rohr and Fr James Martin in one video… Jkjk don’t do that Trent (or maybe do)

The seal of confession is there to ensure that the penitent doesn’t have that sin used against them. However, it’s tricky when a penitent confesses the same sin over and over again.

@johnf6002

Жыл бұрын

Doesn’t our Lord say not to forgive another seven times but 77 times? :)

@jendoe9436

Жыл бұрын

At that point, more guidance and a spiritual director may help them. I suffered from the same sort of sins for a while, but on the advice of my confessor and research I find myself avoiding that particular sin as much. Humans are creatures of habit so it makes since we will struggle with the same stuff for a while. It’s when the penitent has no desire to change their ways that the confessor may need to step in and revoke absolution. It’s a tricky process as some people suffer from severe scrupulosity, which could actually be a sign of nonspiritual issues like OCD. Some are also very spiritually sensitive, hence extreme care is needed.

@djo-dji6018

Жыл бұрын

​@@johnf6002 Sure, but don't forget that not all sins are equal and that a valid confession requires that the penitent admits his sins and promises to do all he can not to commit them again. If one repeats the same grave sin over and over again that may mean he's not taking his promise seriously.

@monicag.k.tambajong

Жыл бұрын

​@@djo-dji6018some grave sins could be caused by addiction or other mental health issues, so we need to discern carefully and mercifully on whether or not the penitent actually cares about his/her promise to sin no more. Remember the story of St. Mark Ji Tianxiang. His confessor refused him absolution many times, believing he didn't have enough contrition because he kept confessing that he smoked opium. Later it was found that he had an addiction to the substance (granted, people back then didn't have much knowledge about addiction and the Priest was just acting on what he knew to be correct). All I'm saying is, sometimes there are reasons for confessing the same sins over and over, other than not enough contrition.

So if a priest was legally forced to reveal sex crimes against children confessed in the confessional. It would then lead either to the person going to prison or the person not confessing in going to hell. ..... I know we're talking about pedophiles. That's a win-win. If you want to make the slippery slope argument then I'd agree but with just pertaining to pedophiles I don't know if I can get myself to be behind protecting them

@Hithereitsme32

7 күн бұрын

So you want people to go to hell? That’s awful and deplorable

@Hithereitsme32

7 күн бұрын

Maybe you don’t and I am just reading it wrong

@Defender_of_Faith

6 күн бұрын

@@Hithereitsme32 I don't want to people to go to hell. A lot of people will end up in hell. If pedophiles end up there so be it.

Wow, this is a tricky topic! While I'm a committed Catholic, I'm not sure I agree that priests should always keep the seal of confession without any exceptions. Going back a bit, did you know that some of the Gunpowder Plot conspirators confessed to a priest named Fr Henry Garnet, SJ? He told them not to go through with it, but he still kept their secret. It's crazy to think that if the plot had succeeded, so many innocent people, including an 11-year-old prince, would have lost their lives. Poor Fr Garnet paid the ultimate price for sticking to his beliefs. What do you think about this example?

@amask99

Жыл бұрын

Look, I understand it's very dramatic and might makes no sense if you take God and thw afterlife off the equasion, but if God is in charge, it certainly changes perspective

Answer: No. Duh.

A confession is a confession to God. Not the priest. You are not confessing to the priest. The priest is acting in persona Christi, you are speaking to God while the priest listens and through the powers instilled by Jesus he absolves you. A priest has no right to discuss your sins because he is simply there to listen in and absolve the penitent. We cannot allow priests to speak about confessions they hear, as it is basically a private conversation with God!

Please tell me if I am mistaken. I thought confession was public in the first few centuries.

@gunsgalore7571

Жыл бұрын

You aren't mistaken.

Yeah no. That MN law is wildly unconstitutional for one. His analysis of government interest is ridiculous. Attorneys, psychologists and other prodessions have near absolute immunity from reporting anything other than a crime that is about to be committed (which is unlikely to happen in confession given that you only confess sins you have ALREADY done. Secondly, the seal of confession will turn people away from the Church. Or people will just use the Protestant version of repentance. Namely, just saying "sorry, God" and moving on with your life.

Didn't Jesus say "Who's sins you shall forgive they are forgiven. Whose sins you shall retain they are retained"? Why cant confessors use the option to retain sins until the person confessing has self reported ?

@user-rw1oe8zd6k

Жыл бұрын

I think when Jesus said that He meant that confessors can retain sins if they have good reason to believe that the person is not fully repentant, not fully sorry for their sins. I don't thinks that it's a way to make people go self-report.

@PuzzlesC4M

Жыл бұрын

@@user-rw1oe8zd6k The convicted child predators rarely committed a sin just once. Many made a habit out of it. Why was it so easy? Some of us looking in from the outside fear it might have something to do with abuse of the confessional.

Obey authorities or governments . The canon law protects their own. Imagine the apostles who had the authority to bind and loose. Compare acts chapter 5. Annanias and Sapphira situation,was it a seal of confession , Peter was straight and pronounced their sin and judgement,both died within same time. No such testimony is in the church.after the deaths of annanias and Sapphira the whole church feared, no such slap on the wrist s and go to a pychiatrist and we keep it quiet amongst the respective families. This guy opinion is totally human speculation. No such sins would be under any seal of confession.

1. Priest are not detectives. 2. Where do we draw the line on what a priest needs to tell authorities, today sex abuse, tomorrow what? 3.Another way the Government controls There are more reasons but

I'm a lawyer (soon to be advocate, different country and a non-Catholic Christian) and the same thing was playing in my head the whole video. Advocates are not to report on the past crimes of their clients. That advocate-client confidentiality is near-absolute. Both legal protections (advocates and priests) are an extension of the right against self-incrimination, and a way for you to get necessary services directly related with your offense (legal representation and absolution from the sin respectively) without worrying that your words will be used against you. If that protection can be afforded to advocates, then why not priests?

JMJ, O HOLY SPIRIT PLEASE HELP ME. My dear friends IN THE LORD AND GOD JESUS CHRIST, as Catholics we all should laugh at some of the Catholic priests, and some of educated and intellectual people, because they are using their finite mind, in the presence of OUR ALMIGHTY GOD JESUS CHRIST, specially from the rich countries, why are they thinking so, are they greater than our ALMIGHTY GOD, I am politely and little arrogantly wish to tell them, you all may be spending the time and money have gain your education, and you all May be a doctors or scientists, we As believers in the MIGHTY OF MIGHTY GOD. We don't care about your proud and education, because you don't and can't find medicine for sin and worries, these are the most cruel things causing all kind of sickness to the people, and you will never find a solution for the above problems, it is impossible, the owner of the human beings body and life is in THE BLESSED HANDS OF MIGHTY GOD JESUS CHRIST. some unbelievers MAY not be agree with this truth, however all GOD LOVING CATHOLICS, will never deny this TRUTH. The priests should understand, your education didn't authorize to forgive sin, MIGHTY OF MIGHTY GOD JESUS CHRIST has breathe and anointed you to forgive in THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF SON AND OF HOLY SPIRIT, please don't forget this. MAY THE ALMIGHTY AND MERCIFUL GOD AND SAVIOR LORD JESUS CHRIST BLESSED, AND OUR BLESSED HOLY MOTHER GUIDE AND GUARD EVERYONE, AND PRAY FOR THE stubborn priests to open their hearts and be humble reverence to OUR GOD. AMEN.

EVERYONE deserves respect and protection from abuse not just kids or children.

@codename495

Жыл бұрын

Right?!

Wait...I agree the Seal of Confession should never be broken, but...a priest in the Roman Communion is not allowed to require confession to the authorities for crimes as part of penance? That is literally the most appropriate penance the priest can give; it's the one I would prescribe if someone were to confess to me.

@TheCounselofTrent

Жыл бұрын

Requiring someone to tell other people their sins in order to be absolved would de facto break the seal. It would also be a slippery slope. For example, should a priest require someone who confesses adultery to tell his spouse? Requirements to tell other people about sins would lead to many people not going to confession.

@OrthoLou

Жыл бұрын

​@The Counsel of Trent I DO think a priest should tell an adulterer to tell their spouse, in order to be forgiven. Why should that spouse be kept in the dark? If the adulterer doesn't do this and wants to keep it a secret, have they truly repented? If a murderer wants to just get away with their crime and live on, while the victim's family never have peace, have they repented? No, if a priest hears that someone murdered or sexually abused someone, the penance they give should be to turn themselves into the police and face the proper consequences. An Our Father and Hail Mary just isn't gonna cut it.

@OrthoLou

Жыл бұрын

​@@TheCounselofTrent you've helped me grow in my faith a lot, but talk like this REEEALLY makes me wish that Protestantism were true... And I know I can't be alone there.

@evanlang5088

Жыл бұрын

Why would you wish protestantism were true. There's so much more beauty in the Catholic Church, the holy Eucharist, the priesthood, etc...

@whitevortex8323

Жыл бұрын

@@OrthoLou Thats what purgatory is for, temporal punishment, there is no need to require, key word require the person to tell other people their sins. It would be good if a person would turn themselves in, but it should not be necessity. God will deliver temporal punishment either way, on earth or in purgatory. In addition, you would also have to make some arbitary line for when a person should have to tell other people their sins. Should a person have to tell others their sin for e.g. speeding on the road, (a sin that is also breaking the law) lusting, (a mortal sin) Furthermore, I would argue there are other possible ways which you can help repair your crimes instead of turning in. As well as this, what if the punishment is death penalty, are they supposed to go die. Finally, God is Merciful and Just, He will repay us all accordingly. I rest my case.

Child abusers don't stop and can't stop. It is not something that is as simple as saying I'm sorry I won't do it again. These People are deeply troubled. I get all sides of the argument, but If the priest knows identity of the confessor he should have an avenue to turn them into the authorities.

@DavidLopez-gv8mo

Жыл бұрын

Then they wouldn’t confess. Honestly they probably don’t confess anyway.

The more and more I listen to these arguments I start questioning my Catholic faith and whether I amon the right side of the fence. Sometimes I feel with what I believe now and what does the Catholic church believe day after day are growing apart into an extent I find it difficult to recite the creed of the apostles. I'm so troubled.

@coachp12b

Жыл бұрын

If all you watch and listen to is anti Catholic media and videos it’s no surprise. That’s the point. It’s okay to question. But our faith is a gift from God. And yes Catholics believe you can lose your salvation. Guard and protect your faith like the precious gift that it is. Pray and read the Fathers and maybe take a break from worldly media. After all the “prince of this world roams like a lion seeking someone to devour.”

@Matt-1926

Жыл бұрын

I just started listing to Edward Sri's podcast "All Things Catholic". I would recommend you give it a try. No argumentation he just goes over the gifts of our faith. It's really made a difference in my life. God Bless

“ No institution in our society…” but father the church is not of our society, it’s of God. Your whole argument is grounded in error.

FIRST!!!

I think the argument fails on it's face. It's secular. "Just because it's a religion..." I guess I'm just some lowly Catholic.

@djo-dji6018

Жыл бұрын

I agree.

I guess what I’m not understanding is that , Confession is ultimately for the pertinent to recieve Absolution and know they are forgiven by God. God is a just God , and there are also temporal consequences to crime. Christian’s will go on and on about how the BLM is wrong ( rightly so) and how many of these so called victims should be paying time bc they did the crime and got themselves into the situation, but we don’t want the most egregious evil to be punished, and children protected ??? I’m not understanding why once the penitent has recieved absolution, they shouldn’t have to pay the temporal consequences!?! Ultimately what matters is their soul. They got that taken care of by repenting …. So WHY would we then , put the child at risk …. They could’ve been contrite but we DONT know if they are going to do it again. We all know in order to truly recieve the forgiveness, we need to have the right dispositions .. But again, that’s not even really for the priest to know. Only God knows. A priest is not going to truly know the heart of the confessor no matter how hard he may try… I just have a feeling if it was any of y’all’s children being raped , you wouldn’t be saying what your saying.

@daughterofyeshuaa

Жыл бұрын

If someone could help me understand 😃 because it’s very hard to see the good in potentially putting Gods beloved children at risk.

@heynowyourearockstar6479

Жыл бұрын

It's up to the priest to decide the penance

@jendoe9436

Жыл бұрын

Because things like the justice system are more of a secular or world issue. God’s justice is true justice, but man’s justice does not always follow. God is also merciful and does give us a chance to rectify our mistakes. Sometimes secular justice is just punishment with little room for mercy or compassion. There are things like plea deals and re-evaluations of course, but that may not always be the case. The issue with requiring confession of a crime for absolution is that it can lead to really bad outcomes down the line. There was a Saint (can’t remember his name) who was a confessor for a king and queen. One day, the king demanded the priest tell him what his wife had said during Confession, but of course, the priest refused. For this, the king had him executed and the priest took that confession to the grave. Now let’s say a spouse assumed the other was cheating on them (adultery). If the cheating spouse confesses to a priest, then that’s where is stays. One might say “well shouldn’t the priest be obligated to tell the cheated spouse so they can mend?” Maybe, but what if the cheated spouse decides to harm or even kill the cheater? What if they slander the cheater over things completely unrelated to the adultery? What if the cheated spouse themselves was a cheater and looking for an excuse to put the blame on the other? Heck, even personal issues in a marriage could set people off and that would unleash a whole slew of problems! In regards to the criminal part, what if the killing was an accident but a mob justice won’t listen to courts? What if the justice system does come out with a verdict but someone decides “that’s not good enough!” and takes matters into their own hands? Does their criteria for justice thus override the state’s? And even God’s justice? It’s easy for us to see grave, bad things happen and demand for maximum ‘justice.’ But how far will it go? By what standard is a police confession warranted for absolution? What about in governments like China and North Korea that kill people who don’t follow their ‘justice.’ We have to be careful with letting ourselves become the full and only judges of stuff like that.

@Matt-1926

Жыл бұрын

*_I’m not understanding why once the penitent has recieved absolution, they shouldn’t have to pay the temporal consequences!?!_* I just wanted to point out that from a Catholic point of view they do have to pay the temporal consequences. We believe that you are forgiven in the confessional but the temporal consequences remain. We can take care of those temporal consequences in this life or we can take care of them after we die. This would be the Catholic teaching on purgatory. There isn't a huge doctrine about purgatory but it is called the purifying fire and from my understanding that purification in purgatory will be much more difficult and painful than taking care of that temporal punishment in this life time. Like you pointed out later *_Only God knows. A priest is not going to truly know the heart of the confessor no matter how hard he may try_* Yep God knows what is in our hearts and God will also know exactly what we owe for that temporal consequences. Only God can know if we satisfied that temporal consequence or not, in this lifetime, so I think we should leave it up to him. To me purgatory actually gives me greater understanding that God will do what is right. If you really think about it. Here on earth the "temporal consequence" of sexual abuse is 6 years and 3 months. Compare that to a life time of pain inflicted on that child. Is that a just payment/temporal consequence? Hope this helps with the understanding a little better. God Bless

Romans 4:2 KJV "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what says the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that works is the reward (salvation) not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on Him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describes the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputes righteousness without works"

The Sacramental Seal is a promise of confidentiality by a group or sect of people. It is of course immoral, and often dangerous, for a priest to conceal a crime thereby abetting in its continuance. The public has a right to freedom from religious crimes. Religions are subordinate to the will of the people, generally considered to be the laws, judges, and the courts of the people. Freedom from religion and religious crimes is a fundamental human right.

The priest sounds like his god is the government not our Lord himself. Like a communist.

I kept waiting for the argument that would show a rational reason not to require priests to report child abuse. It never came. The other examples cited were violations of the US Constitution. No such right exists for priests. The State has an overwhelming interest in preventing child abuse, and nothing about catholic practice rises to the level of overriding it.

@asdfasdf3989

Жыл бұрын

Should priests have to report murders they heard about in the confessional?

@DavidLopez-gv8mo

Жыл бұрын

With a screen you don’t even know who the penitent is, so…

@KestyJoe

Жыл бұрын

@@asdfasdf3989 yes absolutely

@KestyJoe

Жыл бұрын

@@DavidLopez-gv8mo disagree

@asdfasdf3989

Жыл бұрын

@@KestyJoe What about adultery. Should the priest break the seal for that? Also, you disagree that priests don't know who is behind the screen. Do you disagree in all cases or just some?

As an atheist, I find the secular argument weak. Kudos for recognizing that everything has a cost, and there will be cases like attorney client privilege or privacy in our own homes where the cost of giving those up is not worth reducing child abuse. But make no mistake, that IS a cost of those things. Likewise there is a real cost to not requiring priests to report child abuse. The question is if that cost is worth it. From a secular perspective, the answer is probably no. Your beliefs about souls, which is particular to your own religion, does not trump the rights of children to not be abused. You are free to believe whatever you want, but you are not free to harm others with your actions, no matter the sincerity of those beliefs. You are basically valuing saving the souls of child abusers over stopping child abuse. Which may be the correct choice assuming the correctness of your religion, but don't expect someone who hasn't bought in to that to find your position understandable or palatable.

@DorperSystems

Жыл бұрын

My religion is right though.

@misterkittyandfriends1441

Жыл бұрын

Your comment is confusing. But it seems like you are saying that priests should be required to do this. 1. Even if this law was passed, it wouldn't be enforceable without further imposition - the act occurs in private between two people, often anonymously. Priests would break this law. Law enforcement would not be able to compel them to gather information on the confessant or otherwise provide material to help the police locate them. Passing laws that cannot be enforced weakens the rule of law. 2. If priests opted to go along with this (it wouldn't happen), people would stop going to confession, rendering the law void and directly harming people. 3. If there is no functional freedom of religion, and the government opts to intrude to this extent to generate serious harm for potential trivial gains, then you should be very concerned in general. You might be forced to attend a mosque in the future. You also mention saving souls over stopping child abuse - but only by actual repentence of the act could somebody be forgiven. The child abuse already occurred. The priest at worst would help them take steps to get help or to tell the family. So child abuse is not furthered, but a civil punishment for a crime already committed is not triggered (by the priest). Essentially, this would probably not reduce child abuse by any significant amount but would cause significant other harm.

@DorperSystems

Жыл бұрын

Also, this same argument can and has been made against encryption and privacy, many times by Congress. What is your opinion on banning chat services that cannot be read by the government due to encryption? Services like Tor are primarily used for illegitimate purposes like distributing 'p.

@codename495

Жыл бұрын

@@DorperSystems nice argument derperman. As a Catholic I can absolutely agree with the atheist in this case. Predators, rapists and abusers rights to absolution are fine, but they should not in any way escape punishment in this life. You’re literally claiming the abused ( innocents) have less right to safety than the abuser. No. You are wrong.

@djo-dji6018

Жыл бұрын

​@@codename495 Can someone sincerely repent but then try to escape the material consequences of his actions?

This is a very weak defense of client privileges. Yes, a law firm should be held accountable with the knowledge of a crime committed by thier client. What therefore does justice mean then? Get the best defense attorney so they can get a no jail pass? That is a major issue with our justice system. Innocent people are in prison for crimes not committed and criminals are walking because a defense attorney was able to cast doubt knowing he truly is guilty. If a person comes up to you and says I murdered or I abused somebody, would you not call the proper authorities? The Chruch is not above the law of the nation it belongs to. Freedom of religion is the freedom to believe in the true God or whatever false God you choose to believe in without persecution by the government. However, that doesn't mean that Priests or Pastors can withhold information that can solve a crime. Your hyperbole of the government spying on you in your own home is not equivalent.

@DavidLopez-gv8mo

Жыл бұрын

Make me

@danielhaas9469

Жыл бұрын

@@DavidLopez-gv8mo make you do what?

@tiagorodrigues3730

Жыл бұрын

Leaving aside that the Church belongs to no country, and thus isn't beholden to any mortal sovereign, be they king, president or prime minister, you would have to show that the damage to religious freedom would lead to at least *one* just conviction of an abuser, and I am fairly thoroughly convinced that is literally impossible.

@danielhaas9469

Жыл бұрын

@Tiago Rodrigues what does this mean to you based on your comment that the Church dosent belong to a country? Everyone must obey state authorities, because no authority exists without God's permission, and the existing authorities have been put there by God.Whoever opposes the existing authority opposes what God has ordered; and anyone who does so will bring judgment on himself.For rulers are not to be feared by those who do good, but by those who do evil. Would you like to be unafraid of those in authority? Then do what is good, and they will praise you,because they are God's servants working for your own good. But if you do evil, then be afraid of them, because their power to punish is real. They are God's servants and carry out God's punishment on those who do evil.For this reason you must obey the authorities-not just because of God's punishment, but also as a matter of conscience.

@DavidLopez-gv8mo

Жыл бұрын

Can’t obey the authorities when they pass unjust laws

Confessing sin to a preist is unbiblical.

@djo-dji6018

Жыл бұрын

It is indeed biblical. Two passages among several: Leviticus 19:20-22 and John 20:21-23.

@eddyrobichaud5832

Жыл бұрын

@djo-dji6018 John 20:21-23 we don't see no one going to a priest and Jesus is the new covenant with a new alliance we go to Jesus for forgiveness and to the ones we sin against. No where in the New Testament did you see someone going to a priest.

@user-rw1oe8zd6k

Жыл бұрын

@@eddyrobichaud5832 Here's the thing: going to Jesus is the right thing to do, but since Christ is no longer with us physically in this world, Jesus gave the power of forgiveness of sins to the priests. During Confession, the priests are in persona Cristi - they are representing Jesus Christ. Thus it is still biblical.

@eddyrobichaud5832

Жыл бұрын

@user-rw1oe8zd6k No, it's not biblical it's a false doctrine. No man is made to hear sins after sins .... only God forgives if you have faith that He forgives. We can forgive people who offended us. But when we sin or offend someone, we ask the person we offended and God to forgive us. Why a preist, ? Useless.

@user-rw1oe8zd6k

Жыл бұрын

@@eddyrobichaud5832 If this is so, then why did Jesus tell His apostles that whoever's sins they forgive are forgiven? It seems Jesus wanted people to go to the apostles and their successors.

Trent, this is dishonest. The priest that was dismissed was specifically talking about the " Catholic church". Hence, your own body of ecclesiastical priests and bishops who we know when people come to them about these issues the priest or bishop get tansferred. How does your canon law deal with the very institution that is causing it?

Everyone who agrees with this video should be forced to tell the victims of sexual abuse that it’s a good thing that authorities weren’t told, right to their faces.

@johnlove2954

11 ай бұрын

Lol, do you know that if sexual abuse victims are men, they are discriminated as hell by law. Can you tell that to male victims that their abuse is less important?

@peterwallis4288

11 ай бұрын

So if Priests had to report, do you think anyone would confess?

I applaud the priest. It exposes the deeply immoral practice of the Catholic Church. What is the greater good when it comes to not protecting children? Disgusting!

@scottgun

Жыл бұрын

It seems you didn't watch the video. Do you support the government secretly recording in people's homes randomly to catch child abusers?

You should not hide criminals from justice. If you hide pedo’s from justice are disgusting, if they will not hold themselves accountable you must because pedo’s will not 9 times out of 10 hand themselves in despite sometimes knowing that they are wrong. You’re arguing keeping secrets is more important than keeping kids safe.

@gloopdevyoinky9271

Ай бұрын

It is more important dude. That is exactly what we are arguing