The hardest thing in fighting games is being too good to play with your friends but not enough to be a competitive player

@super2thesam

3 жыл бұрын

Kinda get this, feel the same, but also feel like we both have a huge exciting journey ahead of us. I can’t wait for it to become safe again so I can go back out there and get gud.

@drhighpinger7934

3 жыл бұрын

Feel you bro

@pank3245

3 жыл бұрын

I'm in a position where I play fighting games with my brothers. And we are basically on equal ground. We all know how to do the inputs and execute cancels and combos. It all boils down to predicting what we will throw at eachother. So I can basically have the most enjoyment from any fighting game because I have two people that I can play with that are on the same level as me.

@blorgyschmorgy7556

3 жыл бұрын

i feel you bro

@ravantgarde1899

3 жыл бұрын

Lmao facts!!!!

*the hardest thing to do in fighting games is teaching your friends and beating them constantly and trying to not make them rage quit and leave the fighting game forever.*

@invok8781

4 жыл бұрын

INDEED, if you beat them over and over they'll quit and you dont have opponent

@kiirrrkiiooo1658

4 жыл бұрын

Danks EXACTLY 🤦🏽‍♂️‼️

@lemonlimecitrus

4 жыл бұрын

Friend: doesn't like losing ten games in a row. Also friend: can tell when you're going easy on him and doesn't like it. Me: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@mineclon2129

4 жыл бұрын

I mean, its true that you learn by losing, but I don’t think you’ll be learning anymore once you lose for like the 5th time in a row.

@l1fey123

4 жыл бұрын

@@mineclon2129 It took my friend 6 games to start blocking my overheads in MK10

The hardest thing is seriously finding people at your level. Either they're too low or they're way too high. And while losing is a part of the experience, it can still be pretty damn discouraging to get absolutely bodied by someone who is at a much, much, much higher level than you.

@__-fi6xg

2 жыл бұрын

way too high is good, thats where you pick up on new stuff, i dont like winning more than 2 times in a row because it feels like stagnation.

@Diet_Black

Жыл бұрын

Get good kid.

@ofilosofoouumfumante5655

Жыл бұрын

@@__-fi6xg even pro players get destroyed in fighting games

@kaiji4788

Жыл бұрын

True. As a new BlazBlue player, I've accepted that the best way to improve is to get bodied, and learn from getting bodied, and do that for a long time. The question is how many weeks, months I would need to do this before I could reach the "fun" part. I'm starting to ask myself if it is even worth it, and I'm sure a lot of new player think the same. I've heard people say the best approach is to play fighting game because you want to learn and not because you want to win, but my god I feel like this is going to take forever. I really like Blazblue but no wonder most of my friends just prefer Smash.

@zacarnold2970

Жыл бұрын

​@@__-fi6xgno it's not, you might pick up one new thing, but you don't get to play the game, you won't learn shit by watching yourself get bodied.

The biggest barrier for myself was that the in-game tutorials never show you how to actually play a match. They show you piece by piece what your character can do, but then you get into a match with the freedom to do any of the 20 things you just learned any time you want, and you get your ass kicked while realizing you have NO idea how to play the game. Tutorials need to show and explain the gameplay flow of turns/knockdown game/etc

@inv_hana

8 ай бұрын

Yeah combo trials are pretty useless

@robotube7361

2 ай бұрын

This is why you spend time scouring the internet and watch world class players play to learn what they are doing that you arent.

@mrosskne

5 күн бұрын

​@@robotube7361 why should he have to do that? no other type of game has this deficiency.

@robotube7361

5 күн бұрын

@@mrosskne Because its not deficiency. Concepts like footsies. punishing and the feel of the character is not something one can teach you in tutorials. Its something you learn on your own by trial and error. Street fighter 6 actually has a very nice tutorial that explains dome of these things. If you want to get good I suggest you keep playing at the lowest of the lowest levels and once you start dominating then move higher. Fighting games take months and years to master- its not a point and click game. it requires reflexes and executions memorizations etc and once you get over those then you can think about high strategies. The genere is such.

@mrosskne

5 күн бұрын

@@robotube7361 It is a deficiency. If you can learn it from a person, you can learn it from a tutorial.

The hardest thing in a fighting game is online play with a terrible connection.

@WangerZ3291

8 жыл бұрын

+Baked Sale that is true, so very true

@JohnSmith-yi3oi

8 жыл бұрын

a connection so bad that the game froze for 5 seconds and suddenly you see "ROUND 2. FIGHT"

@PikUpYourPantsPatrol

8 жыл бұрын

+Baked Sale Fighting games are hard because 90% of people online are cowardly spammers, they create a spam combo that is inescapable, I might as well drop the controller, unless they fuck up, I'm defenseless

@PikUpYourPantsPatrol

8 жыл бұрын

bennymountain1 Dragonball Raging blast 2

@PikUpYourPantsPatrol

8 жыл бұрын

bennymountain1 even in street fighter 4, they jump on your head with Bison or shoryuken spam with ken or ryu

"It is possible to make no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." -Captain Picard

@ElricWilliam

4 жыл бұрын

"Mistakes are only personally learning steps" --myself

@kleomenis456

4 жыл бұрын

HAHAHAHA!

@petercipra5616

4 жыл бұрын

Thought that said Captain Toad for a sec

@MichaelHarto

4 жыл бұрын

"you are a mistake" -your mom

@charliericker274

4 жыл бұрын

Did he say that after Data lost to that cocky space chess master?

I realize this is an old video, but the idea that “you have to lose a lot at the start” really just reflects that the communities are small and have few new/low level players compared to many other games. Imagine playing league of legends and when you’re new there’s just not enough other bronze players for you to play against.. so you have to learn against platinum or above players. People would probably feel the same about lol as they do most fighting games

@baresize

2 жыл бұрын

this is a very good point

@JesseLegend149

2 жыл бұрын

You'll learn quicker when you fight someone that is better than you.

@xidjav1836

2 жыл бұрын

@@JesseLegend149 this is the same sentiment as "Get gud bruh" the "learn from your mistakes" only applies if you fight against someone equally shit as you and have less moments of frustration over not playing the game.

@teaalc

2 жыл бұрын

@@JesseLegend149 Yeah but you'll be more inclined to quit too, which is not a good business model when you think about it

@xidjav1836

2 жыл бұрын

@@2ch921 it's not about complexity or how hard it actually is, it's about who you fight or learn against, like no shit you can't learn from your mistakes if against someone that optimized to the point you cant play to even process or make a move. If your learning, its a snowball of learning from vague mistakes to pinpoint mistakes to know how to do better. You ain't learning if every move you choose is a mistake. Me and my friends snowballed to super platinum mostly by practicing against each other as shitty players learning from vague mistakes to learning how to read people. Plus you ain't dropping it if people are at your skill level instead of matching a bronze v Diamond

God, a very simple feature that would make fighting games much easier to get into would be the ability to *slow down time* in practice mode. For a beginner, it's really rough to learn combos because you first have to memorize the inputs and then you have to learn to execute the combos in the appropriate rhythm. It would be sooo nice if a beginner could slow the game down to the point that they can read and execute the inputs at the same time. In the same way a musician slows down a piece they're learning, fighting games would benefit tremendously from this feature. Shoot, this is actually a feature in real fighting lol. First, you gotta learn how to punch with good form, and you practice that in slow motion to train muscle memory. Another feature that would be nice is ripped straight out of rocket league. Most fighting games have some kind of combo practice mode, where you gotta execute a combo to clear a challenge. In rocket league, they have that mode where you practice hard shots, but the kicker is that users can craft and upload their *own* practice shots, creating a community where people are actually sharing the ways that they practice and lifting the skill base of the entire community. Do that for fighting games too! If players could upload their own combos for people to mimic, or blockstrings they practice *against* to get better at escaping, it would be tremendous.

@mysticmonogatari

3 жыл бұрын

What's cool is Uniclr has the feature where you can slow down time in practice mode. I used it a couple times when a combo got to complex for me and it was satisfying to see my combo go from only able to do it in slow mode into seeing it being done in real time. I don't know any game which does the latter statement but i think it would be cool if we did had a share community tag in game where you can share combos instead of just looking at combo tutorials on youtube or seeing that one guy on twitter post specific combos.

@vram1974

3 жыл бұрын

The best in game tutorial I've come across (imo) was in Dead or Alive for PSOne. It showed you the combo and it showed the correct button presses as you were tapping them out.

@bananacakesmckanzee7290

3 жыл бұрын

YES

@stird.dragon9954

3 жыл бұрын

Skullgirls 2nd encore have the 2 options you just mentioned, in training mode you can slow the game and it comes with a "challenge" mode that teaches you combos for the character you want. Sadly the game is not that popular. Edit: the game also have other features in the training mode like hit and hurtboxes.

@supremechaosbeing2696

2 жыл бұрын

Smash bros (ultimate) may not have the most reliable training mode unmodded, but it can slow down the game!

The hardest thing in fighting games is trying to teach my friend how to play, so I'll have an opponent Update six months later: My friend still hasn't given up and now he's pretty good

@yellowslotcar

5 жыл бұрын

i agree

@zinelabidineaouidi3359

5 жыл бұрын

Then ur friend beats u and u get salty...

@kiw2792

5 жыл бұрын

@@zinelabidineaouidi3359 F

@BakaMangaka

5 жыл бұрын

@@zinelabidineaouidi3359 F

@Mrjmaxted0291

5 жыл бұрын

This is a cosmic feel.

The hardest thing about fighting games is trying to calm my friend down when he hits himself for losing in fighting games

@gamergamer7508

4 жыл бұрын

Jesus that's a bit far, is he doing ok?

@alex-vl7yf

4 жыл бұрын

gamer gamer I do it, a lotta ppl do it

@grndragon7777777

4 жыл бұрын

😬

@nxt6341

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I can understand him

@RodrigoRamirez-kv7vp

4 жыл бұрын

Everytime I lose I hammerfist my knee

the hardest thing is finding someone willing to teach you who has the patience to actually teach and not just say "you just have to get good." god please teach me.

@breakdancerQ

3 жыл бұрын

get good nub.

@stird.dragon9954

3 жыл бұрын

get good nub.

@jenishpokhrel2409

3 жыл бұрын

There's nothing much to teach. Just look at the command list and learn. Also get good.

@zylokun

3 жыл бұрын

@@jenishpokhrel2409 Got it. Don't even bother.

@AVeryBoredMouse12312

2 жыл бұрын

@@zylokun right I have no clue how you play or why your bad, but I can tell you the first thing in any fighting game you _need_ to learn is the movement and the defensive options. Don't worry about flashy combos or how to cancel attacks, just learn how to not get hit first. For example, in skullgirls I spent a lot of time labbing out how to zone and how certain moves moves my characters about with a team of fukua/squiggly/robo fortune. I still have a lot of issues with the blocking and advanced guarding though...I have gotten a lot better at it though ever since my cousin decided to start constantly rushing me down because he noticed XD regardless, after that is learning when it's your turn, basically a lot of that comes from trial and error, but generally a good run of thumb is a simple jab after a block string ends, which often is hard to identify in a game like skullgirls. I honestly can't help you until I know what exactly the problem _is_ TBH and I be pretty mediocre, just really good at identifying mistakes

If you want fighting games to keep the "trial by fire" approach to difficulty where the majority of your learning is done through failure, then the genre will remain niche. That's the trade-off.

@shadowangel6359

2 жыл бұрын

Mostly because throwing someone into fire and just telling them to push through it as quickly as possible doesn't make it any easier. It just makes them burn more.

@hoodiesticks

2 жыл бұрын

@@shadowangel6359 Exactly. It's really not a great environment for learning, especially if you're new to the genre.

@shadowangel6359

2 жыл бұрын

@@hoodiesticks At best, I can imagine having a tutorial for basic mechanics and then tutorials for each character would help to better understand their mechanics and how to use them to the best of their abilities. Just because other fighting game veterans became great through trial by fire does not make trial by fire a perfect mindset to train newcomers to the genre.

@looneymar9153

2 жыл бұрын

@@shadowangel6359 no amount of beating up the AI will teach you the habits, preferations and gimmicks of a real human being you're inevitably going to verse. It's been put very precisely in another core-a video that fighting games are a speed algebra+geometry competition multiplied by a battle on a psychological level. No tutorial or a training mode will ever teach you the latter - arguably most important - part

@shadowangel6359

2 жыл бұрын

@@looneymar9153 And no amount of losing to human players without being taught what you did wrong or no hint to how you can improve is no different. Your point, exactly? Can't necessarily build a house when you don't know what tools to use, what tools you need, or how to use the tools you have.

You cant spell life without an L

@Trey-wl5mx

5 жыл бұрын

The L is also the first thing in Life

@Trey-wl5mx

5 жыл бұрын

No wooosh here you goober

@ONIGIRIKINGU

5 жыл бұрын

Wrong comment here dude. I was supposed to post this in someone else comment

@shoganai2545

5 жыл бұрын

suigintou101 then delete it?

@ONIGIRIKINGU

5 жыл бұрын

@@shoganai2545 why I posted as wrong. No need to

One of the hardest things about getting good at fighting games is in my opinion finding people near your level. Yes getting bodied by pros and wiping the floor with scrubs is a part of the learning process. But playing someone of your own ability allows you to think while you play because you are at equal standing with your foes. Conversely playing against someone who you are beating because they don't know what they are doing will usually put the winning players head in to auto mode and getting beaten by a expert most of the time means watching your character get combo'd while you look on in frustration. There is no way to really solve this problem, the ranking systems in most fighting game don't mean anything. I've lost to 400pp ryus and beat 2000-3000pp dudleys. The only real way to find people at your level is going the extra mile and looking for them on the internet or through your friends. Alot of people won't go this extra mile. Does that mean its up to the developers to fix this problem? Maybe, or maybe not. In the end fighting games take dedication,.

@CoreAGaming

8 жыл бұрын

+munnypantz This is true, and I do think developers are working on this. The Capcom Fighters Network seems pretty serious, but we'll have to wait and see.

@YamadaUA93

8 жыл бұрын

+Core-A Gaming i have to tell you a 2 little storys. 1)In our city we have a comicon like event. And we have a very little tournament in tekken 6. 2 weeks before this con, one man find me and asking about some tournaments or people that playing T6. I tell him that in our event we have a tournament. I was the best in our little community, but i dont know how to make jugles in Tekken. But i playing with smart, and punishing enemy mistakes. That guy (he play as Steve) just go in and beat everybody exept me. Just because i lose to a man that spam Asuka reversal. For this i was just not ready. Steve win this torunament and only after this he teach how to play tekken correctly. 2) I buy USF4 several weeks ago and in our country SF franchise is known but unpopular at all. So i just can find people that can teach me some things and i can play with offline to practice. And i cant play with anybody that more far from me than France. In USF4 i set up player rank in search like "Same". I found just guys with 2k pp that just killing me all the time. PS. Sorry for my bad english) PPS. I from Ukraine.

@CoreAGaming

8 жыл бұрын

Yeah, hopefully the Capcom Fighters Network thing can help people find each other to play locally.

@SylemGistoe

8 жыл бұрын

+munnypantz this, for real. I think being able to find an environment that cultivates the player properly is a huge part of the entry barrier to fighting games. I think it's bigger than "oh, it's so hard to press the buttons right!". Someone living in the middle of nowhere, or just an unpopular fighting game location may never get to play people in a casual friendly real-life environment against more evenly matched opponents, where they'd get feedback on their performance. A player in such a dead zone has little options besides jumping straight in to getting destroyed online by seasoned players (potentially, depending on how good or poor ranking systems are) and trying to analyze how best to improve off replays by themselves. Even being able to have faces to look forward to meeting and beating can keep a new player invested in the game. The fighting game world's a big ocean, and no scrub is an island.

@t4d0W

8 жыл бұрын

+SylemGistoe I get the dead zone concept of not being close to an offline community and how difficult it can be. However especially in the anime community I have heard of guys who pick up the game, aren't close to a scene but go a far reaching events and improve drastically over time. And these people really have to make twice the effort to lab up hard since they have no competent opponents so they have to watch videos and grind tutorial modes. I was chilling in an Xrd stream and some of the folks were talking about going to big events and such. And one guy wrote down simply that if you are passionate about the game and you are in a "dead zone" like situation, *make an concerted effort to come out to the big events*. You don't have to compete at a high level (of course) but treat it like its the only place where you can get as much matches as you can for your game in a few days. So what if you are free in the pools when it is the only time you can get to experience fighting someone who understands the meta game. I think the problem is people aren't taking advantages of every opportunity that are presented to them. Capcom Fighters Network may be doing the SFV community a huge favor but at the same time, people should make the direct correlation that if you don't have many options, then take online losses even against good players who are character specialists as a good thing. And be meticulous at addressing those losses rather than accepting the loss as it is.

5:20 "get bodied by pros over and over again" Not the best way to convince new players into the genre.

@user-kg6lf1op2l

4 жыл бұрын

It's the truth though.

@alexanderredhorse1297

4 жыл бұрын

@@user-kg6lf1op2l that is wrong. studies have shown moderate success and loss increase the most skill over time. constantly getting destroyed or destroying others has resulted very little skill increase. look it up

@Rex-golf_player810

4 жыл бұрын

@@alexanderredhorse1297 yes there is such thing as baby steps and it works but there is that point where you need to lose to learn to get better though There is one point where you must be pushed and conditioned skillwise and mentally as well

@user-kg6lf1op2l

4 жыл бұрын

Guess you don't understand what he means by getting bodied by pros, ill explain. If a pro bodies you over and over again you are most likely with the pro and by getting bodied he will make it obvious what your weaknesses are and how to adjust. Once you do this ( will take time ) you keep asking and keep receiving until you are able to get a couple hits on them and actually defend there stuff sometimes. Then when you play your friends or anyone that isnt a PRO you will feel more comfortable than them and in most cases out right destroy them.

@Bothrops_Asper_89

4 жыл бұрын

It's how it works. You get better by learning through defeat. Improve, change your strategy, learn how to counter, etc. Back in the days of MvC, i knew this guy who won by spamming Megaman's blaster and thought he was good. Then comes someone else who schools the shit out of him by doing a death combo with Wolverine. Learn how to do the inputs, how to combo and adapt to the different characters. And you can only achieve that by getting your shit kicked in repeatedly until improving.

The hardest thing is when someone asks "Are you okay?" while being 3 stocked.

@tigergames7849

4 жыл бұрын

Sounds Terryble.

@manuelx379

4 жыл бұрын

@@tigergames7849 terry-fic joke

@rollingthunder7978

3 жыл бұрын

Geez, that sounds Terry-fying

@Foxy_Playz05

2 жыл бұрын

“No i’m not okay, I just got 3 stock-“ *BUSTER WOLF*

@FloreyXE

9 күн бұрын

The hardest thing is when someone asks "are you okay?!?!" Then proceeds to yell "BUSTER WOLF!!!"

Hardest thing? Making my fingers make the controller do what i want to do instead of stupidly missing that 5 input

@dcmkflylo1603

5 жыл бұрын

Same. I've been maining Skarlet in MK11 and while I can land her 270~% damage combo in practice almost half of the time, in actual battle I either miss a button so it does less damage or I drop the string entirely.

@mr_miyagi5003

5 жыл бұрын

DC, MK, & FlyLo You’re probably rushing, stay in practice until you can hit it 9 times out of 10, or even better 10 out of 10.. What I do when learning a character is learn their moves, strings/combos etc and then whack it on very hard in practice mode and keep playing until I can take 3-4-5 bars of their health before they can take one of mine, then I feel ready to go practice online in casuals against real people

@tylarjones9281

5 жыл бұрын

@@dcmkflylo1603 Stop playing MK.

@dcmkflylo1603

5 жыл бұрын

@@tylarjones9281 No.

@moose7145

4 жыл бұрын

@@dcmkflylo1603 To add on to what he said, you are also under a lot of pressure outside of practice mode. Especially in some ranked matches, and even more so at tournaments. Even if you're playing at a small tournament with close friends, if you're playing with people who are your match, you're going to feel the pressure at the highest level and mess up a lot more than you normally would. Basically, do what the guy said and practice enough until you get it 9/10 or 10/10 of the time. It'll limit the input errors in these situations. Decision making will end up becoming your only enemy later on if you truly overcome this part of it all. Good luck bro

I have a weird stage fright when I attempt to play with or against other players online.

@Lnblackberry48

4 жыл бұрын

JenWithThePen I use to do that also but I just think of them as even smart AI and most of them won’t get mad or tell you terrible things and if they do , they’re not worth your time

@CPSPD

4 жыл бұрын

Laurence Cornwall-Mann do you wash underneath your foreskin regularly? I think the smegma is cutting off the blood flow to your brain

@l1fey123

4 жыл бұрын

@Soul King And in the end, without losing we dont know what winning is.

@shade0636

4 жыл бұрын

@@CPSPD Damn bro. You killed him.

@teh_jibbler

4 жыл бұрын

It goes away.

The hardest thing about fighting games is... *Connection with opponent lost. [40002]*

Getting my wife into fighting games was actually pretty difficult, but the smooth animations and aesthetic of Skullgirls won her over and she's been practicing everyday to master the in-game tutorial. During that time I've been teaching her how to properly hold her controller and have been going over some of the struggles she's been having learning how to land combos. At the same time, I'm also still learning the game and still trying to clear the Trials mode with three different characters. So far Filia is the only character I've cleared Trials with. We haven't played any matches against each other, yet, but that's because my cousin is closer to her skill level, so I'm letting her have the satisfaction of training to beat him, first.

@raelvillanueva2352

3 жыл бұрын

Nice I wish I could get my wife into fighting games.

@jeppyjep

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah im into Skullgirls too Obviously for the gameplay, not the waifu

What's difficult to me is the mechanics. No fighting game has ever actually explained the mechanics. They might tell you a super move or two or a combo, but spacing? Option selects? Especially frame data? Hit and hurt boxes? These are the things I would want to see in a tutorial or just somewhere I the game. Instead of relying on trial and error or other people graciously posting videos based on their own trial and error. It just seems sloppy as hell to me.

@fysl305

7 жыл бұрын

i'm an I-No player in GGXrd and went on to get 15 win streak in ranked but i have no idea what frames are or option select.

@oledakaajel

7 жыл бұрын

*cough* smashbros *cough*

@charlesmartiniii1405

7 жыл бұрын

Bai Laohu killer instinct

@angelomoreira964

7 жыл бұрын

Bai Laohu virtua Fighter does that pretty well. doa5u has a ok tutorial too

@Trent957

7 жыл бұрын

Guilty Gear Xrd: Revelator probably has one of the best tutorials i've seen in fighting games. It goes through nearly every mechanic and tool you have at your disposal.

The most important thing that a fighting game can do to help a newbie get into the game isn't necessarily teaching them how to play. It's telling them why they're losing. When you get punched in the face, what you did wrong is straightforward. When you're missing a timing window to counter a move but have no idea whether you were too soon, too late, in recovery over a prior ability, in hitstun, in blockstun, or what have you, you get stuck unable to make progress. You turn from practicing to flailing.

@colmecolwag

6 жыл бұрын

I kinda feel like that's what Extra Credits was going for with it's explanation for an expanded Single Player mode. It's not about having a safe space to teach people how to be good at the game but more a safe space to teach people how a game /works/, so that when playing with actual people and getting totally bodied by them they actually have some sort of understanding as to /why/ they got bodied instead of just staring in disbelief.

@fabianoyaga8610

6 жыл бұрын

Although giving like a small tutorial of basic controls is not bad, though.

@KuraIthys

6 жыл бұрын

Yes. I feel like fighting games do an absolutely atrocious job of teaching you the fundamental concepts. What gets me is the stuff you have to learn not to be GOOD at the game, but to just be able to play it in a functional way. Button mashing can work, but you're not really playing the game if you do it. It's like playing an FPS by holding the trigger down and hoping you'll hit something just through dumb luck. But if you don't know the moveset of your character, you're already at a massive disadvantage just from that alone. And this can involve 60-70 unique moves that have arbitrary button combos that you can only really learn by memorisation. For all this, all that fighting games have done here with this moveset and the input schemes that activate them, is take a game design that basically demands having 75 buttons plus some directional control, and somehow mapped it onto a controller that only has 6 buttons. Thus, memorising a bunch of input sequences not because that makes sense, but basically just because your controller doesn't have enough buttons. And meanwhile, even though it's almost a pre-requisite to be good at the game that you know this moveset, it isn't by itself teaching you anything about how to actually play the game. Knowing how to pull off moves is the least important part, but also one of the most time consuming. And the stuff that is actually important to getting to be any good at the game, meanwhile is stuff you rarely if ever get taught. It's really kind of insane.

@alexmaganda5827

6 жыл бұрын

I got streetfighter 5 played it 3 weeks and was like i dont get the fighting mechanics of the game its just weird i used to be really good at doa 5 and 4 but i just dont get behind streetfighters fighting mechanics after playing doa for years streetfighter feels mashy idk guess i need to watch more videos

@fabianoyaga8610

6 жыл бұрын

If you're looking for a game that ACTUALLY teaches you how to play, then try out Guilty Gear Xrd. The tutorial is long as shit, but it teaches you properly every concept of the game.

The problem is always time. The older you get, less time you have to invest in videogames. If the game demands an insane amount of hours for you to simply start having fun, it will quickly become a niche game.

@FoxyPiratess

Жыл бұрын

Well said ... I took the time to be okayish with Street Fighter 2 ... come SF4 there was just so much more in the way of supers, ultras, etc. that I would have to learn as well, and am just not that ready to commit to learning all that ... why not learn something actually useful in life with all the time you need to 'get good'?

@gre8000

Жыл бұрын

See this how I know that I'm getting older for video games by the fact that nowadays I prefer casual and simple games compared to hardcore or niche games that require time investment just to be able to enjoy the game.

@ofilosofoouumfumante5655

Жыл бұрын

@@FoxyPiratess unless you have the health of a obese person, you can afford to spend some time daily to get better

@abramlittle7102

Жыл бұрын

Just don't have kids or a significant other and you'll have plenty of time

5:06 Extra Credits said NOTHING about high-level play. He just wanted players to be able to play fighting games at somewhat decent level when you at least understand what's going on and how to deal with new problems (where and what to look at during game). The hardest thing about fighting games is neutral game and space-time button interactions. These are obscure, non-inuitive, and practically unlearnable for a lot of people without a teacher or a LOT of external information in general. And it's the core mechanic. Yeah, enough said.

@TheNintro7

3 жыл бұрын

I agree, this is still a good video but EC was just talking about getting the player to a level were they can understand the rules enough to know WHY they're getting bodied. Some fighting games feel like playing chess without anyone telling you what each piece does, thats what has to change.

@norock_

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheNintro7 You're either talking about old games that don't have tutorials and/or command list, or missing the point, getting to a "decent level" and knowing what is making you lose are way harder than just being thought that stuff, think about the fact that people pay for coaching. It's not like you can get through a barrier set by your own understanding and mindset just by having better tutorials, a tutorial should be there to make you understand the basics of what's going on, not help you cheat out of getting bodied.

@norock_

3 жыл бұрын

Plus, in some newer games like Punch Planet, in the command list there's information about the moves' properties. Let's also mention the fact that most new fighting games don't only come with a tutorial but also mini character guides that tell you enough to start playing against people and understand a good amount of what's going on.

@TheNintro7

3 жыл бұрын

@@norock_ Ill admit that i don't know how well every new game is treating tutorials, I've played Tekken, MK11, Street fighter and Smash recently. The way i think about "decent" level is understanding the core concepts of fighting games like footsies, what tools can counters missles and area control. Whenever i get into a new game i tend to just skip the tutorial and head straight to KZread for someone to explain it to me. If tutorials nowadays look like guilty gear's, then i can't complain

@loubloom1941

3 жыл бұрын

No, EC's video at its core was about being able to GET TO high level play. Core-A was right.

Better tutorials won't hurt, though.

@Waterking001

5 жыл бұрын

Play Blazblue/Under night in birth

@Account-1536

5 жыл бұрын

Lascell Taylor or Rivals of Aether

@sgtpepper91

5 жыл бұрын

@@Account-1536 or Skullgirls

@peliparado94

5 жыл бұрын

Most modern fighters include extensive tutorials though, even a game as old as SF4 has a pretty good training mode and tutorials for complex combos.

@dylzoe

5 жыл бұрын

ArcSys games have incredible tutorials, but I rarely look at them because the application of those tutorials still takes a lot of practice and butting your head against other people

I think the hardest part for fighting games for me is finding competition in your local area. I just want somewhere I can go to locally to practice against real people. Most of my friends don’t play fighting games though

@gc3k

4 жыл бұрын

The life blood of any fighting game is Player 2

@danielculp1046

4 жыл бұрын

I don't know ur age but I too miss playing on the arcade at the "video store with 5 of my friends blowing rolls of quarters a day made us better players challenging each other.

@gaming1zanagi-1999.

4 жыл бұрын

For me I think it is the button mash aspect plus not knowing how to do it since most instructions are not exists at all or hard to understand

@magosexploratoradeon6409

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it's hard to look for an opponent with a less popular Fighting game. Like legit I think I'm the only dude in my area where I can properly play Skullgirls.

@QuasiELVIS

4 жыл бұрын

@@magosexploratoradeon6409 Why not just switch to playing SF? Pretty much the same thing.

My answer would be that fighting games are hard because you're expected to both know enough about game mechanics to be able to form strategies, and have good enough reflexes to be able to apply that knowledge in real-time. Reflexes without strategy just makes you a button-masher, strategy without reflexes makes you really easy to read and unable to react or adapt, and precious few people have skill in both areas. It's basically speed chess on steroids.

@scartissuefilms

Жыл бұрын

Yep. They are not fighting games, they are Rock, Paper and Scissors played at an insane speed...a speed that's physiologically impossible for all but the extreme outliers.

The hardest thing in fighting games is having no friends or partners to play with.

@BauliusTorvoltos

3 жыл бұрын

This. I want to get into FGCs but I dont have anyone who can teach me. It's all good looking at guides on YT but they only go so far.

@SomeoneThatIsHappy

3 жыл бұрын

Most of my friends are playing fortnite sadly

@IWantToStayAtYourHouse

3 жыл бұрын

Learning a fighting game legitimately feels like work sometimes. Its hard to convince someone to play and learn a fighting game with you

@MrVacuumBrainBimbo

3 жыл бұрын

This is why Discord is amazing.

Fun fact - Fighting games is placed second last on the sales statistic chart for the most played genre's in the U.S. The fighting genre only just made it above Strategy games which is placed last (A genre that is equally difficult for beginners to get good at).

@U9B

4 жыл бұрын

Sounds good to me

@bigballzmcdrawz2921

4 жыл бұрын

The 90s were when fighting games were at their most popular. My friends and I after school would always rush to the local arcade to play the latest Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, or Tekken. Good fucking times😁😁

@umt6429

4 жыл бұрын

@@bigballzmcdrawz2921 that's because local multiplayer meant you were Onyl playing people as good as yourself msot of the time. As kid you could button mash other kids and have tonne sof fun. Online play just isn't as fun when your trash and learbigb curve is high

@charliericker274

4 жыл бұрын

@@umt6429 You just have to get good enough to not be trash. Be willing to lose for a week and you will at least be as good as most people you fight. And you will be playing the game somewhat properly, rather than mashing.

@Tom-jw7ii

4 жыл бұрын

um t it would appear that a keyboard also has a learning curve

Mortal Kombat 11s complete tutorial gives a basic introduction to pretty much every mechanic there is in most fighting games. I've been casually playing MK for 6 years and in that tutorial I learned somethings I never even heard of all this time.

@kohai-kun9261

4 жыл бұрын

@DeadMemes NeedToStayDead are you daft? He was just saying that the tutorial in MK is good, and that it teaches you certain fundamentals (like frame advantage, basic mixups and how to defend against them, etc) that most older fighting game tutorials had historically skipped out on. Like he wasnt complaining or implying that MK was the best game, or that Guilty Gear was bad (or any other FG was bad). Like holy shit you went bananas for no reason, learn to express yourself online, good grief

@lyricchristopher503

4 жыл бұрын

@DeadMemes NeedToStayDead lmao loser u got bitched out by a reply and didnt even make a comeback, baby ass manlet, or should i say baby ass weeb lolol

@PantsMasterPlays

4 жыл бұрын

@@lyricchristopher503 in their defense, KZread does a shit job notifying people about replies, so it's entirely possible they don't even know lol

@michaelvaldivia2891

4 жыл бұрын

@DeadMemes NeedToStayDead I was gonna play GG but because of this comment, now I'm not.

@jjr3alz788

4 жыл бұрын

PJayX killer instinct has a pretty in depth tutorial also, and I learned a lot from it

0:30 “I’ll try spinning, that’s a good trick”

The reason why it's so hard for me to get into Fighting Games is that, unlike any other genre I play, if I get destroyed, I often learn nothing at all. If I play something like idk Rocket League, if I get destroyed, I can clearly see and learn through the things I did wrong, maybe I need to be more aggressive, maybe I need to improve my defense, simple stuff like that. While in Dragon Ball FigherZ for instance, everything happens so fast and with so many flashy effects and movements that look so similar to one another that the only thing I see clearly is my health bar melting while I can hardly move at all.

@losthope6935

Жыл бұрын

You get it. I also don't learn much from fighting games if I lose. I learn more from my chess wins and losses since I can see what I did right or wrong.

@lunk642

10 ай бұрын

Would be really nice if there was a single player mode that taught you these concepts so you didn’t have to figure them all out yourself

@Yuberz

7 ай бұрын

I think that if DBFZ too fast paced for you, try a slower paced game, since DBFZ is one of the fastest games people play. In something like SF6 it is very easy to identify where you went wrong for example. It IS possible to get into DBFZ but you have to find someone on your skill level. It was my first fighting game and I had a training partner who grew alongside me until I mastered the fundamentals which helped me into loving the whole genre!

Lmao, that picture of the “local liquor store” is down my street 🤣

@laikaVNSMK

4 жыл бұрын

so it IS your local liqour store

@jejetube7667

4 жыл бұрын

Lmao where are u from?

@magillagorilla57

4 жыл бұрын

How many knife wounds do you have and/or given out?

I think your point about tutorials is a little off. Yeah I get that simply knowing how the game works won't make you good at the game - but it will ALLOW you to get good at the game. In Tekken for example, the idea of a low block punish is an integral part of the game - the opponent goes for a risky attack, you predict or react to it and accordingly punish this. There is nothing in the games telling you how to do this or why it is important. The games story mode has a 'story assist' button, which makes you able to do complicated moves much easier - but nowhere does it tell you about movement, whiff punishing, pressure tools or the all important frame advantage which is one of the core concepts the game balances on. Just getting bodied by some FG god won't help you learn the game if you don't know how the game works. Having some kind of basic learning tutorial that tells you the concepts would be very beneficial to fighting games.

@MaxLoafin

6 жыл бұрын

portl "walk before you run" comes to mind. Basics are the foundation upon which advanced technique is built until that advanced technique feels basic to u. I agree tutorials are very useful to new/inexperienced players. I also feel they should be totally optional. Like... I hate mandatory tutorials lol

@Pacemaker_fgc

6 жыл бұрын

I absolutely agree with you. I’m terrible at fighting games but I recently won a match against a player who’s been teaching me the game because a friend who was spectating our matches taught me about advanced concepts like pressure and frame traps. If he wasn’t there I would’ve never learned how to deal with my opponents strategies. It doesn’t help that even games with great tutorials like Skullgirls or Guilty Gear didn’t teach me about this.

@Horatio787

6 жыл бұрын

I bought Skullgirls partially because I heard it had a great tutorial. The information is really good, but kicking me out of the tutorial as soon as I successfully block three hits does not teach me good blocking ability. I'm kind of surprised a god tier tutorial fighter hasn't come out yet.

@lo-rez

6 жыл бұрын

That's what I love about Skullgirls. A lot of what you mentioned, was never taught I just kinda learned from practice, but never gave it a name; from yearrrrs of playing Tekken since the first. Skullgirls surprised me with how in depth and helpful their tutorial system is.

@steeledminer616

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly this. Now, I'm a newbie at fighting games. I'm absolutely dreadful at most. But I played skullgirls which by and large is a classic 2D fighter. Yet despite this, after completing a lot of tutorials, I felt like I actually KNEW how to play.

The hardest thing in fighting games for me isn't all that stuff you were talking about, it's the very basics. Getting a grasp on the movements, learning how to perform certain moves, and understanding how to combo different moves into eachother. When I started fighting games, those were the things that were hard for me. Literally just moving in a fighting game is hard. The walk is slow and you can't walk while attacking, the jumps aren't very precise, all that. Then on top of that, learning all the commands is tedious and I still find them hard to do with my regular console controller. Then, most of the moves don't naturally combo into eachother, they're all like seperate things and it feels a bit jarring to learn how to combo.

@Doktor_Jones

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for not making me feel alone.

The hardest thing for me in fighting games is memorizing combos. Plus making a whole list just to remember all these moves and then feel the pressure to try out combos even against CPUs is hell for me.

@DryTEKGI

2 жыл бұрын

memorizing combos and then your side gets switched and I am like a fish out of the water.

@happypunky4129

2 жыл бұрын

I just feel like I can't do the right thing at the right time. I wish there was some hidden tech, but obviously thats not a thing, I grew up playing shooters like tf2, Siege, csgo, battlefield, halo, and cod... Especially the first three of those, so playing other shooters like paladins, overwatch, and other random games comes relatively naturally to me, and I have friends who don't play shooting games who I've played with- who sound very similar to my issue, "I just can't aim fast enough or move." So I guess it kind of goes both ways? I hoped that'd make me feel better but it doesn't, its demoralizing to play Strive- a simple game, and not even be able to perform consistent combo's, or block, dodge, or even grasp the limited amounts of mechanics, sometimes I feel like I just can't.

@Azure9577

Жыл бұрын

Get your neutral game together Neutral game refers to playing without any special moves or flashy combos

@WeedSmoker69

11 ай бұрын

@@Azure9577 that's not what neutral means

@Azure9577

11 ай бұрын

@@WeedSmoker69 I know now lmao, that was 9 months ago

5:18 get out of your comfort zone on the *BEACHES OF NORMANDY*

@wikipediamagnify5217

4 жыл бұрын

Yes it do be like that sometimes when you try to get out of the comfort zone for fighting games, because your just being slaughtered by pro's

@JulioMartinsVerso

3 жыл бұрын

best comment lmao

@ChargeJN

2 жыл бұрын

THROUGH THE GATES OF HELL AS WE MAKE OUR WAY TO HEAVEN

You don't take into account that there's literally no learning opportunity in getting thrashed in the corner by a pro...

@Cunt143

7 жыл бұрын

Getting trashed in the corner means you let him trash you in the corner which means you lost footsies. Learning how to deal with specific strategies in footsies is probably the most important part of the game.

@paullamieux9718

7 жыл бұрын

Well that's kinda my point though, like, there's no opportunity to learn when you can't grab the opportunity to even land a hit.

@TosshiMayo

7 жыл бұрын

''Getting thrashed in a corner'' is one of the most common problems when playing a match against a good player in a fighting game. But learning is possible yet. If you are closed in corner you can try to block each attack, waiting for an opportunity to counter. Or, you can just wait for an moment when you can jump above the opponent to the other side...Well, the point is: after losing, you gonna start to think on a plan to not being cornered and think more before acting, because you had passed that situation so many times that you got experienced to what you can't do. What makes an player good in a fighting game is the capacity of not give chance to opponent find an oppening and think before acting, not commiting excessive errors. This is acquired after losing many times and learning with your errors. If you lose on a regular match, the only culprit is yourself.

@guesswho180

7 жыл бұрын

Then learn how to not get pushed into the corner.

@paullamieux9718

7 жыл бұрын

You can't learn to not get pushed into the corner if you aren't given the opportunity to learn to not get pushed into the corner. Fighting games are the worst games for conveying to the player as to how to play.

My girlfriend and I are Martial Artists and we grew up with fighting games and play them occasionally now as adults.. We know the pain of having to lose to the likes of Omega Rugal in KOF 95 and to people who play fighting games with us as much as we do losing in tournaments for our respective Martial Arts.. I would equate getting better at fighting games to the (neverending) journey you take as a Martial Artist. Afterall people often neglect the fact that a black belt, despite being something you earn, is but the beginning of your journey... Hence it being called a "Shodan" in Karate. So in both Fighting Games and Martial Arts it's ultimately up to YOU and no else to reach that level of skill you wish to attain. 🙏👊🥋❤️

@burningsnow9870

2 жыл бұрын

To be fair we don't have lag in the real world. The issue i see in comparing martial arts to fighting games is that fighting games offer a complete range of playstyles completely separate from each other with plenty of variation in between. In a some of the fighting games I've played I've noticed a big issue. Developers and/or players favoring a certain playstyle due to a low skill ceiling, low risk high reward, or typically safe kits. You then have new players who like a certian characters kit getting absolutely mulched because easier or stronger characters exist in the roster. It would be like you suddenly having to go up against someone who's practiced HEMA for years (Historial European Martial arts). While you could possibly win, it almost has nothing to do with skill and more to do with the equipment and natural advantages they have against you. Fighting games with assists (for example Bandai Namcos My Hero One's Justice 2) some characters can get much more out of assists than other characters. Giving them an extreme advantage that those less familiar with assists can get. You may see both assists work well for character x but no assists combo works well with character y. You then have to contend with poor winners/losers who may berate you or abuse report functions as a petty form of revenge or in extreme cases "Keeping scrubs away from the game" granted such extreme situations like that are rare, but the toxicity with ranked and online games is not.

Fighting games feel like this to me: Okay kid, today your gonna learn how to swim! *Throws kid in 8 ft side of the pool with no floaties*

@joshuaowens2418

3 жыл бұрын

Play story for basics Arcade for battle sense And then play ranked(if available).

@night1952

3 жыл бұрын

Fighting games are Heihachi and newbies are Kazuya.

@klickklack_pron9504

3 жыл бұрын

@Awhol Lotta Whoopass did you learn to swim still?

@teeemo3445

3 жыл бұрын

My dad told me that's how he learned to swim.

@yisuselgarza3496

3 жыл бұрын

@@teeemo3445 besto way xD

After this video, I feel much better about getting my ass kicked in USF4 and UMVC3. Thanks!

@fishywtf

7 жыл бұрын

dafuq you feel better about losing after watching this video. u should be disappointed in urself that you didn't put enuff time into practice mode.

@ki9980

7 жыл бұрын

fishywtf he basically said im order to learn, you have to grt beaten to learn your mistakes.

@steventurous9000

7 жыл бұрын

onesonicguy I remember you dude. what brings you to these parts?

@onesonicguy

7 жыл бұрын

Stephen Lyord Nothing much. Video games. And the fact that I kinda suck at most of them...

@ThisIsGlamboy

7 жыл бұрын

u cant be that bad.

The fact of the matter is that Fighting games are simply a genre that will NEVER be crazy popular. During the golden age of arcades it was, but that was a different time. The reason is quite simple actually. It all comes down to time Needed to be put into the game in order to mastery it. In order to get to a level you can be considered ''Decent'' will require hundreds of hours Practicing in training mode, Hard wiring moves and combos to muscle memory, Getting beat up by experts, learning about matchups and game mechanics so you can master every single manouver in your arsenal, Et cetera et cetera. Then you need to learn how to use all of those to actually win against someone who also knows about them. The problem is, None of this is fun. Doing the same combo over and over again against a dummy foe in training is not fun, staring at the same screen is not fun, going on a never ending losing streak is not fun, reading up on matchups only gets you frustrated, and so forth. And while you're doing this, you know that there is an avalanche of other genres you know you'd enjoy much faster. Many, many who try just say ''fuck it''. fighting games are not the only games that have this problem. Like dark souls, as it also has a learning curve and the game will kill you until you start to physically get ill, but you learn it AS you play through it. Someone who has beaten dark souls definetly knows how to play, and even has a chance against every foe who happens to invade his game. Alas, Fighting game can never have this luxury, as Computer simply, not matter how hard it's difficulty is, cannot replicate how an actual human being fights, because every player is different. Heck, the player might even know of a mechanic or an exploit the computer does not! You can tip the odds against the player when dealing with A.I. but this is a very bad idea, making the match feel unfair. And every battle in Fighting game is fair. Or at least mostly. You could simplify the game. But in doing so you also remove depth. I once asked when i was very young ''Why don't combo's just happen when you hammer the same button?'' Which is because, then every combo is the same, which is boring to play, and even more boring to watch. There is of course fighting games that have comboes you can do with one button, But that's only the first part. removal of mechanics that exist in every fighting game Hardly works, because if you do, the game feels boring. Thus, Fighting games are a genre that 75% of gamers do not have the time, patience, or desire to learn them. 25% of people who do, half succeed, other give up. I myself belong sadly to those who tried but failed. I do however, Find fighting games extremely interesting, fun to play with friends and Watch experts play.

@jinchuriki7022

7 жыл бұрын

su

@Kjernekar

7 жыл бұрын

I agree with your argument, but personally I find any pratice that pushes me to my end-goal to be really fun. Practicing electrics for 2 hours straight? Sure why not. It's fun getting better.

@HawooAwoo

7 жыл бұрын

So combos are the hill you say fighting games should die on? A hill that interrupts a multiplayer game (you fighting the other guy) with a single player game (you fighting the game mechanics that make comboing hard)?

@Suika_Ibuki_The_Drunk_Oni

7 жыл бұрын

Shane Vincent Combos are not the only hill. Heck, i would more compeare it to a mountain range. There is a lot more than just Combos to fighting games. Combo's however, i consider the the first hurdle. street fighter comboes i consider the most shortest and easiest, but they are still extremely difficult for anyone who has never really played 2D fighters before. And next you have to be able to pull them of consistently against real human opponents.

@HawooAwoo

7 жыл бұрын

***** Well how about this. Partly repeating an idea expressed in this video, keep the difficult combos, but also add easy to execute combos. And make it so that learning the hard combos is not necessary to be good at the game. It sort of makes me thing of Counter Strike: Global Offensive; a competitive game that I have logged 858hrs in. In the game, the only offline training you could do (outside aim training) is recoil control. Most of the weapons in CS:GO have a predictable recoil pattern that can be controlled. And if you can control it, they you can maintain high accuracy even while going full auto. But the way the game is designed is that fully learning the recoil pattern is not necessary. Maybe like for the first 5 or so shots (which is the easiest part; the recoil pattern gets significantly harder to control as it runs its course) is a good thing to learn. But you don't need to go fully auto in that game to be super good. Instead it turns into a sort of playstyle choice. You'll find people who base their gameplay and aiming around tap shooting. And then you'll find people who prefer burst fire. And then you'll find people who prefer full auto. And you'll find people from all three of these groups in top level play.

The hardest thing is the lingo. Tutorials are filled with technical terms I can't understand. Damn it.

@fieryfist3150

4 жыл бұрын

For me it’s the CPU. Specifically the older games, they always pull off some dumb mechanic or cheat or buff themselves to win. I don’t have friends to fight against so I just don’t play the game.

@judith4987

4 жыл бұрын

there are plenty of videos out there to help! Core A Gaming's "Why Button Mashing doesn't Work" has explanations for a lot of the key terms in a digestible format :)

@RexPhalange

4 жыл бұрын

@@judith4987 I've watched that vid before. It is not digestible. 😁😁 When he talked about the frame thing, he sounded like he's speaking northern Martian to me.

@IronicHavoc

4 жыл бұрын

@@RexPhalange It basically just boils down to "is this action faster or slower than my opponents action, and can I do something before they're able to act again". Plus frames mean your move is faster, minus frames mean your opponent's move is faster, a frame trap is when one person's move is so much faster that the other person has no followup move that could respond in time. Even if you don't totally grasp it I think that video still sums it up in such that you get the gist of it. And even if you don't get the frame stuff the rest of the video is still totally digestible IMO. Enough for you to at least get a semi competent understanding of the terminology. Just because something is digestible doesn't mean it's going to be entirely effortless to understand, or that you should tune it all out the moment if it becomes challenging to follow at some point.

@andressacco1002

4 жыл бұрын

I think concepts are way more important than their names. My gameplay is based in footsies and I found out the name of that concept just yesterday. Also I've performed several 'meaty' hits without even knowing they were called that lol y just called that 'timing'

This video: EXISTS LTG: Get that ass banned!

@NSLM

4 жыл бұрын

When people who aren't funny try to cash in on old memes.

@nosherkhan3232

4 жыл бұрын

@@NSLM Stay free, my man!

"You'l be told to man up by an oldschool veteran who has knife wounds from winning too much in Street Fighter II in the 90's at his local liquor store." Sounds like the Chinese FGC. DO NOT RAW SUPER IN KOF

@CasualRemy

5 жыл бұрын

Reading about that shit was scary!

@fineguy2696

4 жыл бұрын

thats what sexpat does

@armaggedonsblade

4 жыл бұрын

In my neighbourhood it was the reality. I had to fight with older and bigger dudes when they tried to push me of the arcade machine. Luckily I was better at real life fighting than at fighting games.

@figotlatenby588

3 жыл бұрын

@@CasualRemy jusr read up on it, it sounded like they realized what they were doing in the end and made up. still fucked up though.

The hardest thing about fighting games is the fact they force you to accept that loss is your fault. "He spammed" Well it worked. "He took all my health in one combo" You could have avoided getting caught. Those situations don't seem fair but that's not what's important if you want to win you have to give up on the idea that the game is going to make things easier on you, people with all different playstyles manage to win in all different match ups proving that despite your lack of love for a certain playstyle or getting unga'd it isn't invincible. This is compounded by the fact that you're never guaranteed a repeat experience and learning from a replay is difficult because you're no longer in the moment. You have to work around concepts that form the basis for how other games work.

@asiamatron

6 жыл бұрын

Ifa player can't do anything to escape a one touch of death combo then there's no counter play which is kinda boring imo.

@Lucarioly

6 жыл бұрын

ToDs tend to have a necessary starting point or set up, if you can make sure that you don't allow for that opening you avoid it. The simple response is don't lose neutral. Yeah it sucks to get hit by a ToD but they're also USUALLY not always strings or combos that require precision so drops end up being likely especially in the heat of the moment. Sometimes you may get hit by it but giving up or refusing to even try isn't the way to get past it.

@xeno4693

5 жыл бұрын

Lucarioly This comment basically sums up my mindset while playing fighting games. Whenever I lose I always get upset and say "he was literally just spamming the same thing" or "that was cheap af".

@princespazzy2489

5 жыл бұрын

The hardest thing about fighting games is maintaining anger

@faydo2787

5 жыл бұрын

Keshawn Williams Seems like it’s more maintaining composure that’s the hard part

For me personally is because it's waaaaaaaaay too much of a time investment to get good enough to enjoy the game. I simply don't have that time as an adult, nor the willpower.

@niceboy5559

3 жыл бұрын

Thats fair but you don't have to be to enjoy fighting games imo

I personally find that the hardest part about learning fighting games is overcoming the long history I have with single player games. I have conditioned myself to expect to win, and that's been a HUGE barrier to overcome for me.

To get good at a fighting game you need to go in with the mindset that if you're not winning, you're learning.

@containeduniverse

6 жыл бұрын

Excellent.

@Koops2245

6 жыл бұрын

Oh, I like the sound of that. (° ω °) Thank you~

@myeugbell4982

6 жыл бұрын

Very true

@alexmelendez2239

6 жыл бұрын

That doesn't work. I've spent 238 hrs on Dragon Ball Fighterz and still can't land a bnb.

@DarkCrusader27

6 жыл бұрын

Alex Melendez you might be trying too hard. Make bread and butters that are consistent for you. Then start to deviate from those and extend as far as you can for strong bnbs

In a fighting game, if you fail it's your fault and yours only. Except for DSP, it's always the lag for him.

@1000aaronaaronaaron

6 жыл бұрын

devilhitman24 it's the games fault many times as well

@cpt.parasyte2470

6 жыл бұрын

na i disagree you had the option to learn the games shortcomings an how to avoid being affected by the game design flaws

@1000aaronaaronaaron

6 жыл бұрын

Parasite Pro-Tips not exactly. Anyone who can block darksied's instant full screen mix up is crazy. And I just got the game at Christmas so no I haven't had enough time exactly... You can't just assume people eventually finding a way to counter something means it's okay. Sometomes there's not really a counter or the risk of a counter isn't as bad as the reward of the move.

@XplodingTurtle

6 жыл бұрын

devilhitman24 not true

@panlis6243

6 жыл бұрын

Or noob kids using scrub moves

Memorizing combos, doing the moves fast. I mean somehow I’m expected to remember the 3 to 5 button combination to press flawlessly to counter something that takes the character a second to do.

@sludgebones

3 жыл бұрын

just go to training mode and practice the combo to build muscle memory, then it will be much easier

I kinda dislike the notion of you having to get good and be competitive to enjoy fighting games. You can still enjoy fighting games casually and that is also cool.

I think the hardest thing is how to actually learn from your mistakes (and for some: how to ask for ways to improve rather than getting salty and talking trash--blaming the game or opponent).

@TaraRaeDev

8 жыл бұрын

That's ok too

@keonibrooks9718

8 жыл бұрын

+Tkat Gameing You rralize that the FGC is more of a blanket term for all the different communities, right? Every game has a different community, so you can't just say the FGC as a whole is toxic. You have to call out the individual communities that are toxic.

@rumfordc

8 жыл бұрын

+Tyler Doak exactly, you can spot an intelligent person because instead of saying "omg, ur 2 good i give up" when they lose they say "how do you do that?"

@TaraRaeDev

8 жыл бұрын

No doubt. People are generally eager to tell you whats up as well... but unfortunately there are jokers who revel in the victory instead. So on that note, it's important to be good on both ends of the aspect. Be willing to help! Like was said: It's about getting better, it's not about winning (not all the time at least ;P )

@Chikiba625

8 жыл бұрын

it has took me at least two years of competitive ssb to get good at competitive stuff in general and the best part is no salt was needed and I learned from my mistakes, but, I encounter a shit ton of salt and people who don't know who they're up against (in the sense of trash talk and hope they win)

There's a really ridiculous misunderstanding here during the final parts of this video. When Extra Credits, and the type of consumers their opinion reflects, say they want the game to teach them how to get good, they DON'T MEAN that they want the game to teach them how to beat professional players at tournaments. They mean that they want the game to teach them enough that they feel like they're making choices that affect the flow of the game against people (or AI) at their general skill level. They want the game to show them, at the very least, how not to button mash. And no, current fighting game tutorials don't do this. They show you the button inputs, and tell you to do the inputs correctly to beat the tutorial. That is NOT good enough. The game lacks a proper difficulty curve, and fails to reinforce the lessons it teaches, if this is all it does. You're just doing the combo once, and then you can either go into a real game (even against an easy CPU) where all of your options are available and you really don't have much better of an idea of what to do than before, do the tutorial again/go into training mode in which now you're being asked to just mindlessly and repetitively press the onscreen buttons over and over/let the AI punch you while you try to learn how to block with no real sense of challenge or enjoyment, or you can just go back to button mashing. And ideally the game should not stop at learning not to button mash/spam and blocking. A character's specific mechanics should at least be taught (THROUGH NORMAL PLAY) up to the level that the developer intended. You don't have teach the players weird tech that professional players discovered through grueling research. Most of that stuff is a consequence of systems interacting in ways developers actually might not have been able to fully foresee to begin with, and even when it isn't, is in fact at a level of skill that justifies players having to fight people well above their skill level to learn it. But what are some of the developer's intended combos? What types of moves link into other types of moves? When I get hit, do I have a response? What is this weird meter that kind of looks like a bunch of bullets that this one character has? What are a couple of useful ways to use that resource? There should be a way for players to play a mode where just by playing and having fun over the course of trying to get through a series of challenges (such as a single player campaign with multiple "levels"), the player is slowly introduced to various mechanics and encouraged to learn these fundamental things in order to beat this mode. You have to be able to reduce the complexity of how the fight works down several notches in introductory missions, and slowly introduce the complexity back in. Maybe the first few fights the enemies only do normal punches, but later on they start adding in some low punches, and even later on start varying it up in the middle of a combo. By the end of the game they're doing full on mix ups and chaotically switching their types of attacks to try and make you miss the block. Does this get you to EVO? Fuck no. Getting to the end and learning all of that shit about blocking is barely making you competent. But it's one simple example of how a game's single player might help you get to a level where you feel you have some fucking AGENCY. That's what people are asking for.

@Vladislav888

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly. I also think that one of the reasons why most games are not doing well in the learning department is that teaching, in general, is extremely hard, so they don't bother.

@lorancoondiddles1231

5 жыл бұрын

ACommonHero2 who the fucks gonna read this bullshit fuk u

@xdeathcon

5 жыл бұрын

Anyone who actually cares to read it. He made some good points

@Vladislav888

5 жыл бұрын

@@lorancoondiddles1231 I am. And from the looks of it, at least 63 people other than me.

@yoshitsune5691

5 жыл бұрын

Hey alright nice 200 word essay amigo

the most difficult parts about fighting games is the mentality and the community being a dick to new players

@MokonaModokiES

3 жыл бұрын

the first yeah but the second... Nothing different from any other community. Is the average with any kind of community. you probably just had bad luck and met more of the bad apples.

As a competitive fighting game player it boils down to this : in order to get to a level in wich you can truly enjoy and understand fighting games, you need to be able to understand and own up to your own mistakes. Mentality is a big thing. I feel like in most cases, people who lose a lot will eventually want to stop playing. Because they feel like they are not rewarded for their efforts, while in fact each loss is an opportunity to learn. And once you get that. And you are willing to get beaten 100 times in a row, (preferably with someone experienced explaining you why you lost or got hit) and still continue, you will notice with every game you are improving. Even if you only managed to anti air your opponent 1 time in a match, and you’re able to view that progression as your reward instead of straight up winning the round. That’s when you’ll succeed. Patience is everything. Not only in a match, but also with your progress.

@yoshitsune5691

4 ай бұрын

Facts! I even hit master rank with that mentality, and also I had a lot of free time to practice anti airs and the fundamentals. Mentally a lot of people don’t want to practice the boring stuff like the basics. Yet for me it was kinda like meditation, practicing anti airs and wiff punishment ect. Forcing on my breathing while doing it. Shits fun

@Daniel-kx3zz

2 ай бұрын

I want a reward now, not in 6-12 months!!! You even read what you wrote 2 months ago? "Even if you only managed to anti air your opponent 1 time in a match, and you’re able to view that progression as your reward instead of straight up winning the round" Do you thinkg "anti-air an opponent" is enough reward for hours of watching the signal of LOSER??? It's basically like telling people after a few months your victory was jumping in mario bros or reloading in a shooting game! It's ridiculous!

@tanzolo4487

2 ай бұрын

@@Daniel-kx3zz sigh. I just made Diamond rank. It’s the 2nd highest rank in street fighter I have the game 2 weeks. It is my first street fighter. Don’t act like it would take you years. You’re just impatient. That is why you fail. You see I feel like that is a generational issue. You are numbed by all the validation you get in life. Everyone telling you that you are the special snowflake while in fact you are not. Social media giving you constant validation. Everyone. Not just in life. In video games as well. You get a little victory jingle after every fight in a single player game, you get a level up or some new loot rewarding you constantly. While in fact your character ingame is improving, not you. You are not used to humbling yourself and not getting what you want when you want it. Bro it’s fine. I’ll tell you my opinion : With that mentality you won’t get far. Not in games nor in life. Try the lottery. It’s not that you can’t improve. It’s that you don’t want to. Then why bother looking up videos like this.

@Daniel-kx3zz

2 ай бұрын

@@tanzolo4487 your first street fighter but not your first fighting game.

@tanzolo4487

2 ай бұрын

@@Daniel-kx3zz no it wasn’t. My first fighting game I played when I was 7 and got my first playstation one. It was Tekken 2. Like you are going to sit here and tell me you haven’t played fighting games 10 years ago? Ofcourse you have. Unless you’re 15 or something. See the difference is with fighting games, most people fight AI press some buttons get a win. There you have it: your reward. So you train your brain to just “press some buttons = get reward” then when you get online and it doesn’t work like that you blame the game, the genre, everything but your own ability to learn. Are you going to tell me when you play a shooter online or a racegame online you are always on top of the leaderboard? If so then you found your niche and that’s great for you. It also means you took your time to want to learn those games. But If not why are you complaining about this genre? Only difference is that it’s 2 people. Can’t rely on a team to get you the win. If you have a playstation 4 or 5 and street fighter I’d be happy to teach you fighting games. But you gotta promise to commit. I’m sure many other people would take the time as well. Just gotta have patience and find the right people. Toxicity is everywhere online. That is sadly not just a game thing. So whenever you want to learn hit me up. 😊👍🏻

here's a guitar. this are the frets, the strings, and this is a pick. if you press the strings against the frets and pick at the same time you will hear a note. now, go play duels with steve vai until you figure out how to play. that's not how learning works

@Horatio787

6 жыл бұрын

Wow, that's pretty apt.

@emmettlynch1478

6 жыл бұрын

Implying that learning to beat a human opponent in a fighting game and playing guitar are the same thing. lol

@darthkahn45

6 жыл бұрын

If I could like this twice I would

@invalidletterdept2662

6 жыл бұрын

Emmett Lynch I must have missed that because I totally got the analogy he made about learning and nowhere did he state that two different things were in fact the same thing.

@TheRealVordox

6 жыл бұрын

Depends. Do you kearn by yourself or just become good overtime. Good gamers learn on the fly when they apply their gaming wisdom.

In a lot of fighting games, my fingers can't move fast enough to do basic combos even when I know what I'm supposed to be doing. (There's a move in BlazBlue where you have to jump and buffer two quarter circles and a face button before your character starts the animation to jump; it's ridiculous. And that's in the easy training part. No hope.)

@Shinseidono89

7 жыл бұрын

BB veteran since Calamity Trigger, reporting in! ^.^7 Which character and which move is giving you trouble? Assuming it is still giving you trouble that is...

@Ferdoe

7 жыл бұрын

For example in my case: Many characters in Injustice 2 end combos with the throw input. (light+heavy) These though are very precise in timing. Most frustrating though. I go into practice and can execute perfectly. Any normal match for some reason. Even with the same timing just doesn't work out.

@PooFaceMcButt

6 жыл бұрын

I know this comment is old but hopefully you see this or someone else does who struggles with this. Do you mean that the move is a double quarter circle forward while airborne? The way you wrote it sounds like it's done during pre-jump frames but I'm not sure if that seems right. Very weird motion if so. Anyway, if you want to do this quickly it's not much different from doing it on the ground. Any motions done on the ground will also count while you're going into the air, as long as you do the motion during the buffer window for all special motions. So you can just do a regular grounded double QCF but just end the motion at up-forward. While you're jumping from the up-forward input, you can press the button and it will work.

@Koronaut

6 жыл бұрын

Just keep practicing.

@NoisyyCricket

6 жыл бұрын

Honestly, your thumb is probably swinging up too high when you try to perform the quarter circle motions. That used to happen to me all the time and I had to watch my thumbs movements before I could do it without looking.

Why Fighting Games Are Hard? Because it takes more then clicking your left mouse button and be online.

I do agree with Extra Credits about SP still being a good place to teach the player. It won't teach you to get godlike at the game, but the SP portion of fighting games could do a far better job at preparing you for fighting other players, by introducing the games concepts in a better way. If you can button-mash your way through the SP portion, the game has kind of failed, the game should require, or at very least encourage and expect you to use the tools you have at your disposal, so you know what you'll be up against and how to deal with it (at least in theory). Other fiercely competitive genres do this, like RTSs, so why not fighting games?

@King_Rowlet

10 ай бұрын

Well what do ya know, Street Fighter 6 is out and does almost everything mentioned

"There's a benefit to losing... You get to learn from your mistakes." -Megamind

@jojjn8272

4 жыл бұрын

Most Deadest Pool of em All. Extremely underrated

@balfanghellfire

4 жыл бұрын

So... how the fuck do I learn from my mistakes if I don't know what mistakes I did?

@deviljho4260

4 жыл бұрын

Sota Steelwing do it again until you know them

@motif_3253

4 жыл бұрын

Sota Steelwing watch the replay if that game has that feature and find out since when you went fucked up

@syweb2

4 жыл бұрын

@@motif_3253 My mistake was stepping forward, and then watching as my opponent put me into an inescapable combo for a third of a minute.

I'm sorry but getting "bodied" does not teach you how to play, the closer you are in level of skill to the person you beat the more you learn. "They're just as good as me so what did I do wrong" or "What did they do right" being closer in level makes that aspect so much easier to pick up on

@HsmAsTa

7 жыл бұрын

Getting bodied doesn't teach you anything only if you're tilted about getting bodied. I used to get 4 stocks by a guy in my town in melee when I started to play, at first that just discouraged me, but then I started to accept the fact that I was getting bodied and started to think about what I was doing right and what I was doing wrong. I learned how to recognize and punish his mistakes, and now guess what ? After a year of playing I don't get bodied anymore, and I can even beat him sometimes. And now when I play against other ppl, I can see their mistakes much easier than if I played and trained against a player of my skill. In other words I learned faster by getting bodied.

@Summer_Tea

7 жыл бұрын

Both of you are right to an extent. If you're playing ranked matches or something and you just get destroyed by someone who you play 2 fights against and will never see again, you will learn nothing. But if you go up against someone way better than you in an unranked set and they don't mind beating the pulp out of you for 20-30 fights, then you will almost certainly be better against them towards the end of your set.

@hydaragaming4125

7 жыл бұрын

Natsu you are absolutely right. That happened to me. After getting destroyed by my friend numerous times, i was able to beat him.

@fabianoyaga8610

6 жыл бұрын

Basically practicing with a friend that knows way more than you.

@AirahsELL

6 жыл бұрын

ADAM4NTE it's still a problem because half the time you don't know what you're doing and even when you figure it out the other half the time the other player has the perfect answer and you end up thinking that you did something wrong when what you ended up doing was actually a correct response. Losing to a pro teaches you nothing. There's a reason why you don't fight a black belt your first day of a martial art.

Losing constantly sucks all the fun of out the game for me. Makes me not want to play no more.

Extra Credits: "Fighting games should teach the player the fundamentals of getting good through gameplay." Core A Gaming: "No, if they do that, then the ones who learn through training against opponents won't feel as special." Me: "Wait, how is that an argument?" Cora A Gaming: "Moving on..."

"It's not hard you just suck" -every gamer every time anyone says any game is hard

@NemtYT

8 жыл бұрын

There's also "you only dislike it because you suck at it"

@fakedeltatime

8 жыл бұрын

+nemt and that's in most cases true. Some people can't enjoy a game if they can't play it properly.

@cius2112

8 жыл бұрын

+nemt There are two types of gamers, those who start bad, practice then become good and those wo start bad and complain about it. We aren't dumb, we actually put in the work so we know someone just sucks and is just crying out for attention.

@OnEiNsAnEmOtHeRfUcKa

7 жыл бұрын

+Pass_the_M Not always, my friend. Sometimes the game is actually obtuse, and extremely unfriendly to new players. Sometimes the players start bad, practice and just aren't capable of becoming good no matter how hard they try. And sometimes, players legitimately need help when it comes to grasping how to play. Shunning these people and just labelling them all as a bunch of crybabies does nothing but hurt fighting games as a whole. Plus I've seen way too much legitimate criticism shut down with an ignorant deflection of "lol git gud scrub".

@spootot

7 жыл бұрын

'git gud'

I don't often comment but I'd like to throw my two cents in as a really shitty player. I love fighting games. I suck awfully at them but I still love to play them, and I think a middle ground does need to be met. Learning to take a loss, suck it up and move is extremely important, but some games need to also make a better effort at explaining *Why* you lost. it's all well and good to play until you "recognize" why you were losing, but when a large part of the reason is you were unfamiliar with concepts or tropes of the genre, it can't be an insurmountable obstacle. I still don't really understand what a "Roman cancel" is. I barely could grasp the implications of the burst move in Street fighter IV. those need to be explained better before new players can be expected for find out how to adapt to a situation at all.

@TheDivoture

5 жыл бұрын

hyp3r4ctive I feel that man. I’ve got over 3000 online matches for injustice. So MK and tekken were pretty easy to pickup, but recently I tried to get into Street fighter and I cannot for the life of me understand it. It doesn’t really explain your move list, how to execute them, nor does it tell you what the hell vtrigger is, so I’m back to what I would call “strategic mashing”.

Some of the coolest moments in playing fighting games online were going really long sets in Soulcalibur VI where I kept losing, but then finally learned enough to win a game, and the opponent (having no voicechat) crouched a few times in recognition like 'yeah, good job kid, nice win'. Then being able to do that for someone else later down the line. It's such a good feeling, taking the time to learn a system and improve at it and get to places you thought you wouldn't skill wise just by keeping at it.

Offline content is a must for people to get into fighting games, mortal Kombat 11 does this best by having a lot of unlockable stuff ever-changing towers to win rewards, the best story mode out of the big three(Mk,sf, Tekken) and the Krypt.

This is why Smash Bros is possibly the most unique fighting game out there. On the beginner level, there is basically a casual gameplay mode that anyone can enjoy because it doesn't require much skill to play. But higher up, Smash can be just as complicated as any other fighter requiring just as much skill to win.

@themacattack671

8 жыл бұрын

+CookerLV Honestly I would argue that Melee is the most in-depth and complex fighting game ever created.

@shadow0416

8 жыл бұрын

+themacattack671 The fact that we're still discovering new tech in a 15 year old game is astounding.

@maciaga

8 жыл бұрын

+themacattack671 idk about that but I'd definitely argue it's the most complex party game. #Kappa

@TheGreatUtopiaCat

8 жыл бұрын

+CookerLV beginner level? Wtf is that...u mean just like playing noobs? Smash is the hardest fighting game at higher levels it involves way more spacial coordination and vertical gameplay not to mention off edge gameplay

@octaviogonzalez8794

8 жыл бұрын

+TheGreatUtopiaCat He meant that beginner mode is playing Hyrule with items on. We know how deep the game goes.

You have a thorough understanding of why this genre is so fulfilling. The only additional comment I can make, is the fact that damn: no genre brings so much pride to its players, deservedly. In the end, all together, we fight alone. It's amazing. There's no one else to blame. Also, we're indie AF-

@MrOzzification

8 жыл бұрын

+AmazingGamingChannel Your victory (& in your contrast defeat) is yours & yours alone. Not because of some perk, item, rank or stat build. In fighting games its all down to your skill (a combination of some physical prowess, mental ability & emotional discipline). A round is like a challenge that requires problem-solving to overcome & not much else is as satisfying to the human brain as out-smarting your opponent.

@guycitron5479

8 жыл бұрын

+jay kj Very well-said. That is the essence of it.

@KThyme

8 жыл бұрын

+AmazingGamingChannel maybe not quite as indie as speedrunning since they still don't get that e-sports $$, but point made

@erigor11

8 жыл бұрын

+AmazingGamingChannel There is pride on defeating an equal to you: another human. But defeating something much superior to you... that's real fulfillment. Try, for example, ninja gaiden :P. It still can also be played against other people.

@vialgyy

8 жыл бұрын

+jay kj The same happens in a lot of games even in team oriented ones or games that use items since items are part of the problem, the only difference bettween games with or without items is that in games without them you can't affect your character stats. (but it still has a defined ones that define your play)

The hardest thing about fighting games are people discouraging you to keep up, still losing to that player, failing that combo. Getting discouraged if you body someone or get bodied. But still.. the feeling is great when you win. Keeping on fighting, losing, winning, playing and being so close to giving up.. but not doing that, keeping on forward determined to reach you goal. That, is the spirit of fighting games And also the hardest thing about them.

You know what will help a lot? If new players don't get matched with people who are way above them, and all games have that same issue. I just bought SFV. I'm tired of the whif punish with 10 hit combo games. To decide if I can even play the game online because of my region, I went into ranked straight away, to decide if I should refund. I haven't played SF in 10 years! My first match? A guy playing a Bison who perfectly responds to everything I do and has combos I have watched recently, all executed perfectly. My ranking was somewhere in the 180k region, and his was in the 130k region, but both of us are somehow rookie ranked. What?

The hardest thing about fighting games 2 me is putting in the actual work to get gud at the game. going into training mode by yourself and practicing combos sounds easy but if you don't have the mind set Or dedication to practice you'll never be gud and your going to be frustrated when you go to tourneys and lose

@Symbiote7872

8 жыл бұрын

+Eric Nobles I'm with you dude. I love fighting games so much, winning, losing almost all of it. that salt after taking a hard L gets me mashing buttons to start the next match like never before. But I get no joy from training mode, I just cant get motivated to sit and drill combos. It's weird because i can do it for other games. rhythm games (GH,RB), time trials in racing games, some platformers i find myself doing a run back on tough levels to do it zero deaths or just a few sec quicker. But i cant stand training mode

@afrohero9

8 жыл бұрын

+condoriano exactly! I love fighting games but training mode is such a turn off. I'm just not patient enough for it

@afrohero9

8 жыл бұрын

I'm pretty decent in most games other MvC I can't with that series

@afrohero9

8 жыл бұрын

***** but I know need to practice, I been forcing myself to for Smash and KoF

@familydude-lq7ec

8 жыл бұрын

+Eric Nobles Perhaps start involving yourself in the community. Check out some Discord groups. Or delve into streams like Maximillian's channel. I'm sure he has a fan Discord channel where you can not only discuss strategies, but also acquire new training buddies. I understand how you feel, training mode is pretty much the same as locking yourself in a loony bin. It's maddening after a while.

Hardest thing about fighting games is being on the right side of the screen :( lol

@crowns9966

4 жыл бұрын

Thugitmcnugget Yooooo lmaoooo

@helmiboboy

4 жыл бұрын

Indeed, I'm so used to playing at the right side. It's weird to input from a left side since I wasn't used to it..

@Zeromaru42

4 жыл бұрын

I'm better at playing left side than Right. If I'm on right my playstyle especially in dragon ball fighterz takes a hit. Thankfully I got pretty good at coming up with either side mixups but they still throw me off when the person jumps over me. Especially if there's anything more than a 3 frame delay. There is nothing more satisfying when you get a comeback that absolutely destroys your opponent.

@namenotfound8747

4 жыл бұрын

get gud

@forestlink6673

4 жыл бұрын

Hahaha

The hardest thing about fighting games is, easily, getting your friends to play fighting games.

I'm going to push back on your assertion that the player is entirely responsible for learning the game. I've tried several times, with several different fighting games, to learn how to play them--how to use the unique game features, the combos and sometimes even individual moves. Thus far, the only games that have worked for me are the ones from the Super Smash Brothers series; they don't require precise timing and rhythm when I'm trying to execute a combo--it's just spacing, recovery from moves and a simple, all-purpose block. I've been driven to actual tears trying to learn the most basic moves in Marvel versus Capcom 2, failing to even get Wolverine to do his aerial cross slash, let alone chain it into anything else. I still can't play nearly every fighting game, not because I don't want to, but because when I tried to learn, the game didn't teach me effectively. I didn't have internet to look any of it up, and I didn't even know that it was something that I *could* look up. That's why I say that fighting games should have more fleshed-out tutorials. Having a freeze-frame and button/stick prompt, move by move, would let me finally understand what moments to look for to get that timing and rhythm down. Just select a move or put together a combo, either for you or the cpu, run through the motions of offending or defending with clear, *unrushed* directions and then get a series of increasingly quick slow motion runs to build up that muscle memory. Also, I panic under a traditional fighting game's normal speed. I'm overwhelmed. And then, when I try and fail over and over, it's emotionally crushing. That's not how a game meant to be fun should make you feel, and yet I'm locked out from the genre by that exact experience. Sometimes a player needs to be babied at the start because they're not equipped to take the whole thing in at first. One of those players is me. I'm trying to git gud. I've made several hours of earnest efforts, and that's no exaggeration. And still, over and over, I've been beaten down. TL;DR: some people, like me, are so unequipped for fighting games and so poor in effective learning resources that they need the game to show them *everything*; I think that a system like that is possible and should be implemented.

@hippo-cryp342

2 жыл бұрын

It just sounds like you arent meant to play the genre tbh, which is not a bad thing, i know i will never be good at souls-like games or RTS's

@SomeDiscussionRecommended

2 жыл бұрын

@@hippo-cryp342 I can agree that I'm not capable right now, but I've been able to overcome other hurdles before. I've gone from wrench-ignorant English major to airplane mechanic in five months, trained myself up from scarcely managing a mile-long run to overshooting a half marathon (*not* in that same time frame, mind you) and changed from painfully shy follower to confident, diplomatic leader, and the common link between the three was instruction. I had good teachers, learning resources or both in every case, and that support made all the difference. There are tons of skills that I've picked up with outside help, and I'd probably never have learned many of them on my own, or to the same degree. A lack of predisposition for something is almost never a barrier to entry; it just takes the right kind of help. Because these fighting games are good for certain kinds of brain development and great for socializing with lots of people, I think the genre deserves that kind of intensive help so *everyone* can benefit from all the positives it can offer. Again, TL;DR: Fighting games are worth teaching to everyone because they help sharpen your mind and give you ways of getting to know people. Other worthwhile skills are just as hard to learn but better supported; fighting games deserve that same level of support.

@tuna5305

2 жыл бұрын

​@@SomeDiscussionRecommended There literally is that same level of support though. You said you became an airplane mechanic in five months. Did airplanes come with instructions on how to deal with mechanical failures engraved on the fuselage? Do marathons come with instruction booklets on how to train, how to run, which shoes to buy? No, and as you said yourself, you had to use teachers and learning resources from the outside. That's all out there, videos, communities around specific games, guides etc. If you for some reason can't access the internet it's not really the game's fault just like it isn't an airplane's fault if you live in the middle of nowhere with no teachers or resources on how to become a mechanic nearby. Everyone without physical disabilities that impair them heavily can already benefit from the positives fighting games can offer. They're just not putting in the effort or are in a situation wherein they cannot put in the effort through no fault of the game.

@colinstreck710

Жыл бұрын

@TUNA It may not be the fault of the game that players don’t have access to the resources to play it, but that doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t do what it can to help them overcome it. Why can’t the wikipedia information and tutorial resources just be included in the game? One might reason that the task of finding this out is trivial, but it isn’t for everyone, as the previous comment has states, and it feels unreasonably gatekeep-y to just refuse people access to the games. Also, having ran a 3:14 marathon and attempted to play SC6, SF2T, SF5, and Smash, the info on how to do the marathon was way easier to find, and much more intuitive, to me, personally. Like, we don’t need GUIs and desktops because the info is all out there on how to use the command line interface to do everything, but rather than saying anyone who doesn’t feel like learning bash shouldn’t use a computer, the more accessible desktop option being available hurts no one and makes it better for everyone in general.

@tuna5305

Жыл бұрын

​@@colinstreck710 The reason it isn't in the game is because writing down information often ruins the game. Would a game really be as fun if you had to read a manual before each boss fight, detailing the bosses attack patterns and their weaknesses? No, because that would be retarded. That information is there for the player to discover and writing it would just make it feel like work, not fun. And if you can't put in that little amount of effort to learn, people aren't gatekeeping you, you're the one stopping yourself out of extreme laziness.

Only those who can tame their ego get good. By looking at what you did wrong without emotions you find the best and most logical way to go.

@Nkodtb

7 жыл бұрын

Chilean Guanaco well said

@shampoo768

7 жыл бұрын

I agree. Enjoy your losses. You need to train with better people to become better otherwise you will plateau. The fun part is figuring out how to beat someone better than you.

@Donzaloon

7 жыл бұрын

Chilean Guanaco real shit. you can apply that anywhere in life

@KingGruesome74

7 жыл бұрын

words of a veteran gamer respect

@ROFLHELIPWNS

7 жыл бұрын

Chilean Guanaco i didnt know alpacas played sf4 o:

From my experience as a professional tutor, I've found persistence to be essential to learning anything but the lowest of hanging fruits. However, it is also possible to guide a student or player with a logical progression of difficulty (not necessarily linear) that will allow them to reach higher levels of competency more efficiently. Once a degree of competence is established, persistence comes much easier. The line between hand-holding and guidance can be subtle, and it varies from individual to individual. I believe Extra Credit's main point was that with better guidance, players who would otherwise stop playing can attain some degree of competence. One may see this as coddling, but the end result is what is important. Expression of competence is rewarding. That psychological reward makes them want to play more. If more people can be made to reach a level of competence, the player-base increases, which hopefully creates better communities. Edit: A quick addition, I do think there is something to be synthesized here. You are right that single-player tutorial is a poor replacement for multiplayer. There is likely a good discussion on the utility of a good matchmaking system and its effects on skill acquisition to be had. TLDR; Brute-forcing skill acquisition is viable, but not optimal.

The biggest barrier for me is simply not getting that feeling of satisfaction when I do win, even from a tough situation. It's one that no veteran I know has been able to give me advice on as of yet either, considering that's one of the biggest incentives to get people through difficult games.

for me, the most difficult thing in fighting games is keeping in mind that mindgames exist I can't even count how many fighting game matches I've played without ever even *attempting* to bait or read anything I just kinda wait for an opening while hitting the player's block to make him wanna do something and thats about as much mindgames as I ever do

@abramlittle7102

Жыл бұрын

It's the most abstract yet most advanced fundamental

Mortal Kombat 11 has the best tutorial ever. It even explains frames to beginners and has character specific tutorials.

@icheatinexam5606

5 жыл бұрын

MK11 has great tutorials,but ArcSystemWorks did it first with BlazBlue & Guilty Gear.

@Spider-K

5 жыл бұрын

@@icheatinexam5606 ikr

@PaladinOfSpirit

5 жыл бұрын

Mk11 does have an amazing tutorial but it can be very broken at times and I wish it went over how to choose your options more in neutral and all that

@davidj2074

5 жыл бұрын

Yes MK 11 shows the guts of the fighting game mechanics, but when it comes to character specific tutorial it feel a little short. What can I say I liked Street Fighter for the character knowledge and linking combos.

@LTDLetsPlays

4 жыл бұрын

UltimaFortuna sorry lad but guilty gear and Undernight in birth has superior tutorials and explains Almost everything except frame data

Hey, cooking instant ramen is VERY gratifying!

@randymartinez1113

6 жыл бұрын

Realinho Exactly

@danielwappner1035

6 жыл бұрын

Almost as much as eating it

@grathlar

5 жыл бұрын

Especially when you put jus the right ammount of water XD💯

@TheBestWanderbug

5 жыл бұрын

Someone gets me

@marcogarcia7944

5 жыл бұрын

Realinho yeah but burning your ramen a 100 times isnt worth it

Jesus christ the ending of this video inspired me to go out and play some ranked Injustice 2, and face the result no matter what it was. Now I feel like dying fuck me

Super smash actually simplified it pretty well You can enjoy it whether you’re a pro gamer or a casual like me who just want to play it as a party game from time to time Easy to learn, hard to master

@chasefox3100

3 жыл бұрын

I think that fighting games would really benefit from having deep game play like smash manages to do without the insanely hard inputs or 30 plus button combos. As it stands I literally can't play most fighting games with any sense of skill no matter how many hours I practice because they all seem to have overly complicated button inputs to do basic things and or the 30 plus button combo shenanigans. Just wish playing a fighting game didn't make me want to Kermit suicide after getting absolutely bodied over and over and over again by anyone just above button mashing.

@alariaaurora8456

3 жыл бұрын

@@chasefox3100 yup i pretty much i agree i bought tekken 7 and played for like 5 hours and got bored cuz i had to memorize tonnes of combos however moves and comboes in smash are designed do naturally that even a day 1 gamer can perform alot of them

I love your videos dude. As someone who enjoyed fighting games before, this channel has made me appreciate them in an entirely new way.

@CoreAGaming

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

@rabielougmani1974

7 жыл бұрын

I definitely agree with you.

@PomLamb

7 жыл бұрын

Have you watched the movie real steel? Real steel sorta reflects how new players approach fighting games.

@AzinuHarru

7 жыл бұрын

I have bad timing and rhyme in fighting game.

@empress6875

7 жыл бұрын

rhyme? do you mean rhythm?

I never realized how little time that was until you said a 32nd note at 150 bpm

I watched this video when I first started going to offline locals at the start of 2018. I went 0-2 most brackets but kept the grind going gradually improve lots of ups and downs but preserving has made me a strong person mentally outside of the games plus I tend to place pretty well at locals. If your new to these games and struggling dont give up keep putting in the work and watching your loses learn from your mistakes

The reason I myself never got into fighting games is because they are so complicated. Facing people without actually button mashing means getting killed in a timespan of 10 seconds without really knowing what is happening.(a bit of an exaggeration but you get the idea). Most if not all the people I faced online when I played an online game always seemed to know what they were doing so I stood no chance against them, it made me feel like there are no new people in the genre and everyone playing is a veteran. I never understand what they did and why it was effective I pretty much learned nothing from the experiences. I've tried to get used to some characters by learning some combo's which is another beats in and off it's own which in my opinions games themselves do not teach you in the slightest. It's not that I do not enjoy fighting games but it feels like to get good at them I pretty much need to go to school to learn a character and not get bodied by everyone. This in return makes me feel like to get any fun out of a fighting game, it should be all I play since casual play does not seem to be a thing in fighting games(in my experience). Everything I saw so far about fighting games is always talking about being competitive and playing in tournaments(which I'm 90% sure my area does not have) which again would mean a massive massive commitment. TLDR: Gave the genre a chance but the sheer difficulty of getting into it pushed me away repeatedly.

@Jackrost01

4 жыл бұрын

It's is good if you find friend with same level who want fight with you.

Real Number one reason to not get into fighting games: Huge amount of special moves which are just walls of text.

Having the technical skills floor being as high as it is, to the point of some games either requiring that you literally only play that one game all the time and/or own a fightstick to make inputs easier, is also what holds a ton of people back. Why should they have to burn another $80 on a new controller or turn practice into a job just to get to the skill floor, let alone to be "competitive"? I play fighting games, I'm only OK at them, but at least I generally sort of know what I'm doing, but it's only because I started playing them in middle school and had a ton of free time to just grind away at learning how to play BlazBlue as my first back when CT came out. If I hadn't spent so much time back then and just tried to learn it now in my twenties, there's no way I'd get into them.

@FoxyPiratess

Жыл бұрын

I get you ... I did learn the basics of Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS and Ultimate ... won some matches online ... but, in person? Got wupped. I just want to have fun with my mates like in the old days on the SNES ... I don't want to spend hours to learn not just moves but every tiny detail of the game AND try to figure out my opponent's strategy too ... or deal with the CPU cheating, although that was certainly a thing back in the 90s too.

How can learn from my mistakes by constantly losing if I never know what I’m doing

the liquor store in this video is literally the liquor i grew up playing SF2! it's in Arleta on Van Nuys and Bartee. and the video store across the street next to dominoes had SF rainbow edition... we would cross the street back and forth when either arcade would get full. that's so crazy that it popped up in this video.

Losing to a good player because they're just technically better than you (but you can see at least some of why they're better) can be fun, because you're learning the game as you lose, and you can steal some of their techniques. Losing to a good player because some shit happened to your character that you can't yet comprehend (because you don't have the baseline experience required to understand) is kinda trash. I mostly like the videos you make, but there's a difference between "I can't beat the best players in the world and I'm gonna cry about it" and "literally what the fuck just happened to cause my loss" and fighting games generally have problems teaching new players to see what actually just happened to lead to their loss, possibly because of the short rounds and emotional investment which make high level play so fun, which is why extra credits suggested slow mo training modes and such. The pity is, because of fighting games's high tactical and technical skill floor, a lot of potential players just bounce off the entire genre, so they never get to comprehend the skill ceiling. Evo Moment 37 means literally nothing to someone who doesn't know enough about the game's mechanics to comprehend what a parry is, why that was the best option, and how Daigo influenced the match to force that situation, even before they learn how technically challenging that sequence of parries was.

@coolman123icool

5 жыл бұрын

Really late but I agree with you. I love playing a set where I get demolished because I can understand why I lost. If you’re a new player constantly getting tick-thrown in the corner though, you’re gonna be tilted. you

@massterwushu9699

5 жыл бұрын

Joel Hackworth An hr or 2 in practice mode is really all you need to beat an AI opponent in most fighting games. The online PVP is really just one mode out of many. Games like Mortal Kombat have great story modes, Arcade Ladders, Krypt, Customizations, Weekly Towers and a wealth of other single player content which well worth the $60 base price. You’re really just upset that you can’t beat a human opponent(consistently), and that you can’t tell why you lost sometimes......That takes time and a deeper understanding of the games mechanics. We all want easy wins, but keep in mind that , for every “easy win”, there is crushing defeat on the other side of that tv screen. And the one who gets the most wins, is usually gonna be the one who took the time and made the effort to learn..

@massterwushu9699

5 жыл бұрын

Simon Farre Dude, you’re a clown and you don’t know jack shit about fighting games. Are you seriously implying that 2d fighting games are inherently less technical than 3D ? How the fuck did you draw that conclusion?

@cyanure1320

5 жыл бұрын

@Simon Farre nope mk has one of the best tutorial and training mode in fighting games however it don t teach you how to adapt to an opponent because it s up to you, if you play poker or tennis nobody will tell you always go all in when that happen or always do a smash when that happen, you can do it in pve mode but not versus a real oppenent you will become predictable . what they teach you however it s perfect , it s what you can do what is the risk of doing it if this don t work what is the reward if it work, but the situation where you have to do or not do something is up to you and same thing for your oponnent but i agree on one of your point, it s true that you have a little more defensive choices and defensives possibilities in some 3d games than in some other 2d games (it depend some 2 d games have a lot of defensive options too) and 2d games seem to rewarding more often the ofensive player than the defensive player, however at least in the case of 2 average players

@superheriber27

5 жыл бұрын

No tutorial will ever prepare you against another human

I swear to God, every time someone says "To get better at fighting games, you just have to keep playing, man. Lose to players better than you over and over, and you'll just get it, eventually," they're right.

@jamierose9095

7 жыл бұрын

Bullshit.

@pickledparsleyparty

7 жыл бұрын

Actually, it is a little bullshit. You don't simply get your ass kicked over and over until you learn how to win by intuition. At a certain point, you do have to know how to figure out why you lost and then understand your character well enough to combat the reason you lost. But, starting from 0 (a new player), simply playing a bunch will strengthen your intuition. Your "heart" according to Laugh's taxonomy. Without even thinking critically about the game, that will at least take you to the point at which you can beat other new players reliably. Just using your gut feel during a fight. So it is a way to break into the FGC competitive space--a way to get past the new phase when you feel helpless and you expect to lose every fight. After that, losses will feel like something that was avoidable, not something that was inevitable. You'll be in the FGC, and then the game becomes getting better at the game, not winning the game. But you definitely won't make it to Killer on "just play" alone.

@blackpants7385

7 жыл бұрын

True that.

@pickledparsleyparty

7 жыл бұрын

"or if i'm too early with my combo or too late (and if I missed a button on top of being too early or late)." I completely know how you feel, here. Learning target combo systems is laborious for exactly that reason. There's all this doubt and possibility when we're new that it makes diagnosing dropped combos a real pain in the ass. IMO, this is one of the reasons MKX and KI are serious alternatives to SF and Guilty Gear. MKX replaces strict target combo timing with intuitive juggle timing. Instead of wondering whether or not you're inputting the second button on the correct frame, your goal is understanding your move's startup and then timing it so that your move hits the other guy in the air. That makes so much more sense than the arbitrary frame-tight timings in target combo systems. And KI replaces combo timing with combo rhythm and mind games. Openers, linkers, autos, manuals and enders create a rhythm you can feel, so they don't depend upon timings you have to memorize. And what really makes the combo system engaging is that your opponent is still interacting with you while you combo them. They can break your combo if they're good. This means, while you're in combo rhythm, you're also concerned with tricking them into a lockout or baiting/feeling a counter breaker opportunity.

@duaneblommaert976

7 жыл бұрын

Thats why he said that when you lose you should rewatch the tapes and see what you did wrong and why it was wrong. Trial and error my friend. You can actually get good by trial and error. I am by no means good at fighting games, but I fight at a competent average level in them and im just okay with that :) I know the terminology and I know combos. I know what to do a bit. Its fun.

The hardest thing about fighting games is taking a shower

I'm with Extra Credits here, the game should teach you every important concept, if you need to go to read a guide or watch videos to understand the basic mechanics, that means the developers are not doing right with the tutorial and single player mode. The fact SF2 on arcade sold billions without any tutorial or training mode doesn't mean modern fighting games should follow the same design philosophy.

@MokonaModokiES

3 жыл бұрын

he is not saying it shouldnt but that at the end of the day you still have to actually play and end getting bodie until those things they teachd to you gets ingraned into your mind and hands. You can have the concept in your head all you want but it just doesnt change the fact that until you actually have a feeling at how to do those things right you WILL get bodied.

@Envy11235

2 жыл бұрын

I hope if you seriously believe this you either game UNI or Thems Fighting Herds a shot or you don't play any multiplayer game.

It has a lot in common with why people, especially as they get older, give up on learning an instrument. There's a big stretch initially where you aren't good enough to do anything enjoyable, and don't have the preexisting musical education to know how to formulate simple but nice sounding sequences. it's really miserable grinding away at something that isn't rewarding in the least with the anticipation of someday being able to play something even okay sounding.

"This mentality of 'new game companies better help us get good, or you won't get as many sales' fails to understand that getting to high level play is up to the player, not the game companies." The explosive reemergence of the roguelike market would beg to differ. Design (in general, everywhere) isn't about lowering the ceiling, it's about raising the floor. You can't avoid falling while skating, but you can wear protective equipment and choose where you skate. Fighting games should INCENTIVIZE players to play multiplayer, but the idea that they're anywhere near meeting players halfway on the information exchange is laughable. Also, pointing prospective fighting game designers to Capcom's financial success with an already established brand is meaningless. "Just think, with hundreds of millions of dollars in development and marketing, and a name synonymous with fighting games, you too can match their profits!"

@artstsym

7 жыл бұрын

I know it sounds like I just came here to rag on your video (I didn't, I've watched and enjoyed quite a lot of your library), but this is kind of a high level player misunderstanding that you see in a lot of genres. No, it's not the game companies' job to make you good at the game (and no amount of mechanical innovation on their part can do that, anyway), but it IS their job to make you WANT to be good at the game, and most fighting games are atrocious at this.

Still coming back to this masterpiece of a video !

I think EC has a bit more of a point here, the reason SFII did so well was because if you got bodied, the person who bodied you explain the mechanics to you, unlike online mode. Its annoying when you get destroyed and have no idea what you could have done. If the game taught you the situation in which you could parry everything would be much simpler